Ok, well, I think that people are arguing about this because Telltale nailed exactly what they were trying to accomplish with this specific choice.
In the scene right before the fight they painted it clear with the flashback that moral choices are often murky, but they are important and people will feel strongly about them.
This is an example of a moral choice that isn't simple, and as such people are arguing about it.
in this forum, there are 3 beliefs
With Kenny 50 %
Against Kenny 49 %
People who knows that both sides are reasonable 1% (that's my opinion ^^)
so it was in season 1 and now it's in season 2
I'm fascinated how people always manage to ignore that key scene in which Luke died and Clem almost with him if it weren't for Mrs-selfish-Jane.
First of all, she was the one closest to Clem. Second, Kenny was at the other side and if he stepped back into the ice he could only make the situation more dangerous.
Kenny was miles away drilling Arvo a new butt hole.
Third, Kenny never hits Arvo during that scene, just at the unfinished house.
When Clementine ask for help to get fire started, Kenny takes a look at her and then starts complaining about the house, provokes Arvo even more which pushes him over the edge and he starts to defy Kenny. Then he chooses to beat Arvo instead of trying to save Clementines life. That is one moment that shows how reckless and indifferent Kenny can be.
He cares more about unjustified revenge than saving Clementines life.
I'm fascinated how people always manage to ignore that key scene in which Luke died and Clem almost with him if it weren't for Mrs-selfish-J… moreane.
First of all, she was the one closest to Clem. Second, Kenny was at the other side and if he stepped back into the ice he could only make the situation more dangerous.
Kenny was miles away drilling Arvo a new butt hole.
Third, Kenny never hits Arvo during that scene, just at the unfinished house.
When Clementine ask for help to get fire started, Kenny takes a look at her and then starts complaining about the house, provokes Arvo even more which pushes him over the edge and he starts to defy Kenny. Then he chooses to beat Arvo instead of trying to save Clementines life. That is one moment that shows how reckless and indifferent Kenny can be.
This doesn´t even have anything to with the post I responded too, but whatever. I am going to anwer you anyway. That he gets carried away once because he is mad am Arvo doesn´t mean he doesn´t care about Clem.
When Clementine ask for help to get fire started, Kenny takes a look at her and then starts complaining about the house, provokes Arvo even … moremore which pushes him over the edge and he starts to defy Kenny. Then he chooses to beat Arvo instead of trying to save Clementines life. That is one moment that shows how reckless and indifferent Kenny can be.
He cares more about unjustified revenge than saving Clementines life.
When Clementine ask for help to get fire started, Kenny takes a look at her and then starts complaining about the house, provokes Arvo even … moremore which pushes him over the edge and he starts to defy Kenny. Then he chooses to beat Arvo instead of trying to save Clementines life. That is one moment that shows how reckless and indifferent Kenny can be.
This doesn´t even have anything to with the post I responded too, but whatever. I am going to anwer you anyway. That he gets carried away once because he is mad am Arvo doesn´t mean he doesn´t care about Clem.
What Jane did right:
* Have the idea with the cover technique (which Clem already knew)
* Kill a danger to the group (Troy)
* Hel… morep Clem and Rebecca out of the herd
* Show Clem new survival techniques
* Save Kenny in 205 (although Clem would have been able to shoot Vitali aswell)
* Predicting many would turn on Clem
What Kenny did right:
* Mistrust Ben
* Mistrust the St John's
* Kill Larry (he was doing it not for the fuck of it, but because if Larry had really been dead, noone would have made it out)
* Mistrust Lilly afterwards
* Mistrust Molly
* Mistrust Vernon
* Sacrifice himself for Ben/Christa
* Mistrust Bonnie (when she was with Carver in 202, and in 205 she showed her true face)
* Take a beating for Clementine
* Was okay with Clem saying she'd leave him behind at Howe's
* Give birth to Rebecca
* Shoot Rebecca (determinant)
* Mistrust Arvo
* Forgive Clementine Sarita's… [view original content]
Mistrust Lilly
The reason she did what she did was his fault anyway
Mistrust Bonnie
If Kenny wasn't so dangerous and r… moreeckless, they wouldn't have left in the first place.
Mistrust Arvo
I know Arvo was wrong for shooting Clem, but his reasons were doing so were understandable.
Forgive Clementine for Sarita's death
He never apologised to me in my playthrough, you should put a (determinant) up there
Mistrust Molly
Molly's reasons for leaving were perfectly valid
Mistrust Jane
Not saying what Jane did was right, but what she did was understandable too, Kenny was losing it.
Mistrust Lilly
The reason she did what she did was his fault anyway
Mistrust Bonnie
If Kenny wasn't so dangerous and r… moreeckless, they wouldn't have left in the first place.
Mistrust Arvo
I know Arvo was wrong for shooting Clem, but his reasons were doing so were understandable.
Forgive Clementine for Sarita's death
He never apologised to me in my playthrough, you should put a (determinant) up there
Mistrust Molly
Molly's reasons for leaving were perfectly valid
Mistrust Jane
Not saying what Jane did was right, but what she did was understandable too, Kenny was losing it.
When Clementine ask for help to get fire started, Kenny takes a look at her and then starts complaining about the house, provokes Arvo even … moremore which pushes him over the edge and he starts to defy Kenny. Then he chooses to beat Arvo instead of trying to save Clementines life. That is one moment that shows how reckless and indifferent Kenny can be.
This doesn´t even have anything to with the post I responded too, but whatever. I am going to anwer you anyway. That he gets carried away once because he is mad am Arvo doesn´t mean he doesn´t care about Clem.
The fact that he is able to do so should get Clementine worried. I dont know if you've seen, but Kenny gets mad all the time.
Nope. You can say he gets 'mad all the time', which is false, but that scene is the only time he gets carried away enougth in his anger to forget about Clem.
Well everytime someone doesnt agree with him, he gets mad, and that happens a lot.
It doesnt matter that it is the only time her gets carried away, he has shown that he is capable to do that...
Kenny wants to change, he tries to change but he fails.
The fact that he is able to do so should get Clementine worried. I dont know if you've seen, but Kenny gets mad all the time.
Nope. … moreYou can say he gets 'mad all the time', which is false, but that scene is the only time he gets carried away enougth in his anger to forget about Clem.
Well everytime someone doesnt agree with him, he gets mad, and that happens a lot. It doesnt matter that it is the only time her gets carried away, he has shown that he is capable to do that...
Nope. Consider the situation he was in: he as loss his eye, loss Sarita, has to survive with the people that created the situation that killed her in the first place, Luke had just died. That he gets carried away once and only once after suffering so much, doesn´t mean anything.
EDIT:
Kenny wants to change, he tries to change but he fails.
Nope. Watch his endings, watch how he risks his life to try to save Ben-the dude who caused the death of his family-or give him a painless death.
Well everytime someone doesnt agree with him, he gets mad, and that happens a lot.
It doesnt matter that it is the only time her gets carri… moreed away, he has shown that he is capable to do that...
Kenny wants to change, he tries to change but he fails.
I'm just going to leave with this one bit.
I have seen double standards on both sides. One thing I've picked up on from this whole argum… moreent is that both sides are full of people being idiots.
The fact that its been 2 weeks since the finale came out and people are STILL FIGHTING about it show how stubborn people are.
She doesn´t care about AJ safety, she could have stopped the figth after she had proven all she had to prove and let Clem make her own decision about both of them, and she doesn´t consider the emotional trauma her plan could cause Clem.
Yes but her hidden agenda was to show Clementine Kenny's true colours due to Clementine being so blinded by her extended history to Kenny. H… moreer hidden agenda was just as noble as Kenny wanting to get AJ and Clem to safety. The flaw in her plan was the execution.
Honestly though, if that car barricade wasn't there. I think Kenny would have started something then and there.
Well everytime someone doesnt agree with him, he gets mad, and that happens a lot. It doesnt matter that it is the only time her gets carrie… mored away, he has shown that he is capable to do that...
Nope. Consider the situation he was in: he as loss his eye, loss Sarita, has to survive with the people that created the situation that killed her in the first place, Luke had just died. That he gets carried away once and only once after suffering so much, doesn´t mean anything.
EDIT:
Kenny wants to change, he tries to change but he fails.
Nope. Watch his endings, watch how he risks his life to try to save Ben-the dude who caused the death of his family-or give him a painless death.
The reason she did what she did was his fault anyway
Does this change that Lily was unstable? Nope.
I know Arvo was wrong for… more shooting Clem, but his reasons were doing so were understandable.
Does this mean that Kenny was wrong in mistrusting him? Nope.
He never apologised to me in my playthrough, you should put a (determinant) up there
Watch/play the campfire scene again. Is not determinant.
Not saying what Jane did was right, but what she did was understandable too, Kenny was losing it.
Does this justify what Jane did? Nope.
If other people dont keep him in check all the time, he fails.
So if he doesnt get Clem in trouble one day, he has changed? Even sarita said something like "i thought Kenny could change".
Well why didnt she leave the baby behind to die then? Why did she keep AJ safe when she could have helped Clementine out from the car? I was rather annoyed that she kept the baby alive. I expected more from her.
Her hidden agenda was just as noble
Lol, nope.
She doesn´t care about AJ safety, she could have stopped the figth after she had p… moreroven all she had to prove and let Clem make her own decision about both of them, and she doesn´t consider the emotional trauma her plan could cause Clem.
That´s far for noble.
Well why didnt she leave the baby behind to die then? Why did she keep AJ safe when she could have helped Clementine out from the car? I was rather annoyed that she kept the baby alive. I expected more from her.
I played the game through yesterday and tried bunch of different things i havent tried before. If you offer the Rum instead of talking, he will just decline.
The reason she did what she did was his fault anyway
Does this change that Lily was unstable? Nope.
I know Arvo was wrong for… more shooting Clem, but his reasons were doing so were understandable.
Does this mean that Kenny was wrong in mistrusting him? Nope.
He never apologised to me in my playthrough, you should put a (determinant) up there
Watch/play the campfire scene again. Is not determinant.
Not saying what Jane did was right, but what she did was understandable too, Kenny was losing it.
Does this justify what Jane did? Nope.
Well why didnt she leave the baby behind to die then?
Well, duh, because Clementine couldn´t like that.
Why did she keep AJ sa… morefe when she could have helped Clementine out from the car?
Because, duh, she was setting up her plan. Also, because Clementine couldn´t like that.
I was rather annoyed that she kept the baby alive.
This is fucked up. I hope you are not serious.
I played the game through yesterday and tried bunch of different things i havent tried before. If you offer the Rum instead of talking, he will just decline.
This is fucked up. I hope you are not serious.
How come? Its pretty fucking stupid to keep a baby with you in a zombie apocalypse. Most rational/logical thing to do would be killing the baby.
Comments
It doesn't matter who hit first, you keep the flame burning.
Ok, well, I think that people are arguing about this because Telltale nailed exactly what they were trying to accomplish with this specific choice.
In the scene right before the fight they painted it clear with the flashback that moral choices are often murky, but they are important and people will feel strongly about them.
This is an example of a moral choice that isn't simple, and as such people are arguing about it.
I'm with you, in the proposed 1%.
First of all, she was the one closest to Clem. Second, Kenny was at the other side and if he stepped back into the ice he could only make the situation more dangerous.
Third, Kenny never hits Arvo during that scene, just at the unfinished house.
When Clementine ask for help to get fire started, Kenny takes a look at her and then starts complaining about the house, provokes Arvo even more which pushes him over the edge and he starts to defy Kenny. Then he chooses to beat Arvo instead of trying to save Clementines life. That is one moment that shows how reckless and indifferent Kenny can be.
He cares more about unjustified revenge than saving Clementines life.
What if Clem doesn't even consider Kenny her family?
My Clem didnt treat Kenny as family. I was more like probation officer looking after him.
This doesn´t even have anything to with the post I responded too, but whatever. I am going to anwer you anyway. That he gets carried away once because he is mad am Arvo doesn´t mean he doesn´t care about Clem.
I just wonder why no one bothered to heat them up body-body, like wtf?
The reason she did what she did was his fault anyway
If Kenny wasn't so dangerous and reckless, they wouldn't have left in the first place.
I know Arvo was wrong for shooting Clem, but his reasons were doing so were understandable.
He never apologised to me in my playthrough, you should put a (determinant) up there
Molly's reasons for leaving were perfectly valid
Not saying what Jane did was right, but what she did was understandable too, Kenny was losing it.
How was Lillys behaviour Kennys fault? Traumatized by the death of her father or something?
Does this change that Lily was unstable? Nope.
Does this mean that Kenny was wrong in mistrusting him? Nope.
Watch/play the campfire scene again. Is not determinant.
Does this justify what Jane did? Nope.
The fact that he is able to do so should get Clementine worried. I dont know if you've seen, but Kenny gets mad all the time.
Nope. You can say he gets 'mad all the time', which is false, but that scene is the only time he gets carried away enougth in his anger to forget about Clem.
Given the positions he is in I completely understand it, besides he isn't mad all the time.
I think it was because of Moral Guardians.
Well everytime someone doesnt agree with him, he gets mad, and that happens a lot.
It doesnt matter that it is the only time her gets carried away, he has shown that he is capable to do that...
Kenny wants to change, he tries to change but he fails.
Nope. Consider the situation he was in: he as loss his eye, loss Sarita, has to survive with the people that created the situation that killed her in the first place, Luke had just died. That he gets carried away once and only once after suffering so much, doesn´t mean anything.
EDIT:
Nope. Watch his endings, watch how he risks his life to try to save Ben-the dude who caused the death of his family-or give him a painless death.
Yes.
The internet in a nutshell.
I don't either one is evil. Just flawed people making mistakes.
Lol, nope.
She doesn´t care about AJ safety, she could have stopped the figth after she had proven all she had to prove and let Clem make her own decision about both of them, and she doesn´t consider the emotional trauma her plan could cause Clem.
That´s far for noble.
If other people dont keep him in check all the time, he fails.
So if he doesnt get Clem in trouble one day, he has changed? Even sarita said something like "i thought Kenny could change".
If you dont go to Kenny, he wont apologise. So it is determinant.
If he is willing to admit his mistakes, he had changed.
She doesn´t say this.
You have to go. You can fail to get him to rejoin the campfire, but you have to go.
Well why didnt she leave the baby behind to die then? Why did she keep AJ safe when she could have helped Clementine out from the car? I was rather annoyed that she kept the baby alive. I expected more from her.
You can go offer the rum, he declines and you can go back, so there is no talking.
Well, duh, because Clementine couldn´t like that.
Because, duh, she was setting up her plan. Also, because Clementine couldn´t like that.
This is fucked up. I hope you are not serious.
Rule No. 1 Never ever try to debate with kenny's fans
(p.s i'm not a kenny fan tho..)
You can´t go back.
Well some Kenny fans arent completely delusional.
I played the game through yesterday and tried bunch of different things i havent tried before. If you offer the Rum instead of talking, he will just decline.
Kenny killing her father is what made her unstable in the first place.
Does this change that Kenny was justified in killing Larry before he could turn? Nope.
How come? Its pretty fucking stupid to keep a baby with you in a zombie apocalypse. Most rational/logical thing to do would be killing the baby.
Yes, but can you really just go back to the campfire withouth talking to him first?
You can´t just throw away a life because is stupid or inconvenient, no matter the situation you are in.
yeah i know but most of them are getting easily butthurted...