For not giving him "any excuses" you're sure giving him a lot of excuses here. I don't care how old he is. Hes old enough to know that shooting a little girl with a rifle is screwed up thing to do. I would guess Arvo is 18-20. Around my age. Being a little closer to someone in age doesn't make the actions any more justifiable. There are going to be people like me who never forgive him for doing what he did. I don't care what his exact age is, I don't care what his reasoning was.
Look, age doesn't matter. Arvo is at most 18 and, the youngest I've seen speculated is 15. It's not like he's Lee's age--the fact that she's a child means nothing to him because he's a child too.
I don't know why you start out by saying age doesn't matter but then go on to give an age excuse in the very next sentence..
Yes, and Arvo wishes harm on and eventually brings harm to Clem because he thought she had killed his sister.
We can go back and forth re… moreasoning the unreasonable all day--the point is everyone does screwed up things. Nick was protecting his friends, Christa was exacting revenge for Omid--it's all justified to them. Just like it was to Arvo.
Look, age doesn't matter. Arvo is at most 18 and, the youngest I've seen speculated is 15. It's not like he's Lee's age--the fact that she's a child means nothing to him because he's a child too. Also, the whole point of him doing it in the first place was exacting revenge for the sister he thought Clementine shot dead.
Kenny said it best; ''You think just because you're a little girl you can just get people killed?'' There's no passes for Clementine just because she's a kid. There's no room for passes in the apocalypse.
Until the translation was released, a lot of people were confused if he did or didn't. After it was released, thought, it was set in stone that he didn't.
I said ''give him a break''--or perhaps I can use a different expression that best suits you.
"cut him some slack''; ''ease up on him'';''don't be so harsh''. All of these are not ''forgive him completely and totally and forget the things that he had done''
It just means "stop treating him like he's Satan's first born son"!
I said ''give him a break''--or perhaps I can use a different expression that best suits you.
"cut him some slack''; ''ease up on him'';''don't be so harsh''. All of these are not ''forgive him completely and totally and forget the things that he had done''
It just means "stop treating him like he's Satan's first born son"!
I said ''give him a break''--or perhaps I can use a different expression that best suits you.
"cut him some slack''; ''ease up on him'';'… more'don't be so harsh''. All of these are not ''forgive him completely and totally and forget the things that he had done''
It just means "stop treating him like he's Satan's first born son"!
Until the translation was released, a lot of people were confused if he did or didn't. After it was released, thought, it was set in stone that he didn't.
Well, not everybody watched the translation. Mostly everybody, I suppose, but thinking that everybody knows about the traslation is a little bit unrealistic. I myself didn´t know about it up until a few days ago.
Also, by 'kind of thick', I mean that people don´t even try to see Arvo´s side of the issue.
Until the translation was released, a lot of people were confused if he did or didn't. After it was released, thought, it was set in stone that he didn't.
I've explained several times that pity isn't what I'm looking for for Arvo--just for people to understand his thoughts and emotions because, surprisingly enough, there is a huge amount of people that think Arvo shot Clementine for no reason.
Please don't spin that age argument again. I'm sick of it. I know you mean well and your morality is in the right place but--honestly, analyze this for a second.
Age doesn't matter. Arvo is at most 18 and, the youngest I've seen speculated is 15. It's not like he's Lee's age--the fact that she's a child means nothing to him because he's a child too. Also, the whole point of him doing it in the first place was exacting revenge for the sister he thought Clementine shot dead.
Kenny said it best; ''You think just because you're a little girl you can just get people killed?'' There's no passes for Clementine just because she's a kid. There's no room for passes in the apocalypse.
Also, thank you for the input. I really appreciate people you, even if I can't change their mind, see and respect the effort I put into this. Instead of just calling me some crazy asshole and attempting to make me feel like shit.
If you are looking for me to pity Arvo for his actions, you're barking up the wrong tree...I can say I understand them but I still wanna get… more rid of him, no matter how good or misunderstood a light you paint him in.
Arvo's actions are what caused everything bad to occur to him. His group being killed, sister being shot by Clem and him assuming that she was still alive somehow(?), also having a volatile one eyed man beat him when he knew standing up to him was a bad idea. All this was on him and it shows where his mentality is....he likes to get even and hurt anything if he gets hurt. When I saw that look on his face after Clem shot his walker-sister, I knew what he was going to do and I really don't think he regrets it because he hurt Clementine personally but rather because he realized that Mike disapproved and he never shot anyone before. That takes a ghastly amount of hate and anger to do...as shown by the fact that Clem wouldn't even pu… [view original content]
I said ''give him a break''--or perhaps I can use a different expression that best suits you.
"cut him some slack''; ''ease up on him… more'';''don't be so harsh''. All of these are not ''forgive him completely and totally and forget the things that he had done''
It just means "stop treating him like he's Satan's first born son"!
Dude, I was agreeing with you.
Yes. That's what I said. "Let up" doesn't mean ''Let go", though.
As long as you understand. That's all I'm trying to accomplish here. Get people to see both sides. I'm a firm believer in the ''two sides to every story'' so I like to be informed.
I'm drawing a parallel. If all of you are going to throw Clem's age at my face, am I not allowed to use his? Seems like a bit of a double standard, doesn't it?
For not giving him "any excuses" you're sure giving him a lot of excuses here. I don't care how old he is. Hes old enough to know that shoot… moreing a little girl with a rifle is screwed up thing to do. I would guess Arvo is 18-20. Around my age. Being a little closer to someone in age doesn't make the actions any more justifiable. There are going to be people like me who never forgive him for doing what he did. I don't care what his exact age is, I don't care what his reasoning was.
Look, age doesn't matter. Arvo is at most 18 and, the youngest I've seen speculated is 15. It's not like he's Lee's age--the fact that she's a child means nothing to him because he's a child too.
I don't know why you start out by saying age doesn't matter but then go on to give an age excuse in the very next sentence..
Look, I really hate Arvo. If he appears in season 3, and I get the option to shoot him, I could do it withouth thinking that much about it. But still, your comment is not helping.
I said ''give him a break''--or perhaps I can use a different expression that best suits you.
"cut him some slack''; ''ease up on him'';'… more'don't be so harsh''. All of these are not ''forgive him completely and totally and forget the things that he had done''
It just means "stop treating him like he's Satan's first born son"!
What's worse is that by making him shoot Clem no matter what, they've retroactively justified Kenny being a bigoted, abusive ass towards him. It's okay that a young, disabled, frightened boy is forced to lose his family and then constantly be beaten and terrorized because he eventually shoots a kid.
Just because someone is wrong for reacting to abuse by hurting innocent people doesn't absolve the person who hurt them in the first place. Indeed, it actually puts them at fault.
Telltale's treatment of him was, by far, my biggest issue with EP5. Not only could they have done so much more with his character as a whole… more, maybe even pull a Ben and do something selfless and redeemable to guarantee the safety of the baby, what little time he did have in the episode meant nothing. He was there as a plot device and that was it.
He was there to serve as a punching bag for Kenny, to foreshadow how ''crazy'' he was becoming.
He was there because Telltale is moral enough to not kill off a defenseless, sniveling boy but they aren't above having him be verbally and physically abused the rest of the episode
He was there as a final ''fuck you for thinking that'', having him act submissive and hurt the entire episode until he suddenly shoots you.
You get to have one playable interaction with him. One. And it doesn't even matter. Not if you say 'sorry', not if you leave, not if you tell him that 'I've lost people too'. There… [view original content]
Maybe Arvo is also "trigger happy" (I'm not sure why this is an excuse) and saw Clem as a threat to his and his group. I mean, she was pointing a gun at them and he's seen before that she's not afraid to shoot.
He pulls his gun on her first, unless you beat him to it. Also, he shoots Clem even when she gives her gun up, which kind of erases that argument.
Nick was just paranoid and he panicked. I don't even excuse what he did either, but it is not the same thing as the Arvo situation.
No...she was still a child. And what does it matter? Is executing a 15 year old really so much better than executing an 11 year old?
Where has it ever been said that she was 15? Maybe Christa should be judged harsher for this reaction, I don't know. All I know is that what Arvo did was messed up, and I won't give him any slack for it.
Maybe Arvo is also "trigger happy" (I'm not sure why this is an excuse) and saw Clem as a threat to his and his group. I mean, she was point… moreing a gun at them and he's seen before that she's not afraid to shoot.
No...she was still a child. And what does it matter? Is executing a 15 year old really so much better than executing an 11 year old?
Remember that when Clem first meets him, he's terrified at the prospect at having to shoot someone - particularly a girl - and likely wouldn't have gone through with it if Clem simply talked him down.
It's after experiencing the trauma of losing his family due to their group overreacting (it was Buricko who wanted to rob Clem's group of everything, just as he was the one who opened fire) and then getting constantly beaten by Kenny that he hardened into a more dangerous person. Keep in mind that he evidently had no grudge against Mike, Bonnie or Luke - especially since the writers made sure that Mike was the only guy who made a real effort to befriend Arvo.
Maybe Arvo is also "trigger happy" (I'm not sure why this is an excuse) and saw Clem as a threat to his and his group. I mean, she was point… moreing a gun at them and he's seen before that she's not afraid to shoot.
No...she was still a child. And what does it matter? Is executing a 15 year old really so much better than executing an 11 year old?
There's apologists for everything.
Look, I really hate Arvo. If he appears in season 3, and I get the option to shoot him, I could do it withouth thinking that much about it. But still, your comment is not helping.
Yeah, that's what pisses me off. The fans of Kenny ate it up with glee, never mind that they're effectively justifying the abuse of prisoners by saying they MIGHT POTENTIALLY hurt someone innocent.
This is pretty much why I think the writers drop the ball on the conflict between Kenny and Arvo.
It almost as if they're trying to say "… moreHey, guys! It's okay to spout racial slurs, push around, and beat a defenceless and crippled young man in a few occasions, one to the point of near death...so as long as the same man eventually shoots a child in the shoulder as a response, which make everything bad you've done to him justified after all!"
I guess it's a stretch to say this with the evidence given to us in the actual game, but I believe that had Kenny not terrorised Arvo and treat him less as a punching bag and more as someone who made a stupid mistake that gets his team killed, the shooting of Clementine wouldn't have happened.
What's worse is that by making him shoot Clem no matter what, they've retroactively justified Kenny being a bigoted, abusive ass towards him… more. It's okay that a young, disabled, frightened boy is forced to lose his family and then constantly be beaten and terrorized because he eventually shoots a kid.
Just because someone is wrong for reacting to abuse by hurting innocent people doesn't absolve the person who hurt them in the first place. Indeed, it actually puts them at fault.
If you try to negotiate with Arvo in Episode 4, he clearly regrets that his group went too far and tells Clem that he wished they met in better circumstances. "You were kind. That is not common." It's also not at all his fault that his sister died when it was Buricko who started the gunfight, and likely one of Clem's group members (Kenny?) who shot his sister. Also remember that as far as Arvo was concerned, he saw his sister crawling towards Clem and assumed she was alive when Clem shot her.
And what's wrong with him being defiant? People admire Kenny's stupid bravado when he took Carver's beating, and so do I. Even if you know that it'll hurt you, it's admirable to stand up to people abusing you rather than simply sniveling and cowering. I LIKED that Arvo was strong enough to tell Kenny to fuck off, and that he refused to beg for mercy while Kenny went off on him like an overgrown child.
If you are looking for me to pity Arvo for his actions, you're barking up the wrong tree...I can say I understand them but I still wanna get… more rid of him, no matter how good or misunderstood a light you paint him in.
Arvo's actions are what caused everything bad to occur to him. His group being killed, sister being shot by Clem and him assuming that she was still alive somehow(?), also having a volatile one eyed man beat him when he knew standing up to him was a bad idea. All this was on him and it shows where his mentality is....he likes to get even and hurt anything if he gets hurt. When I saw that look on his face after Clem shot his walker-sister, I knew what he was going to do and I really don't think he regrets it because he hurt Clementine personally but rather because he realized that Mike disapproved and he never shot anyone before. That takes a ghastly amount of hate and anger to do...as shown by the fact that Clem wouldn't even pu… [view original content]
I'm drawing a parallel. If all of you are going to throw Clem's age at my face, am I not allowed to use his? Seems like a bit of a double standard, doesn't it?
This is actually the worst Arvo defense I have ever heard. It is based upon faulty logic. Why would Arvo even assume Clem killed his sister when she was obviously a walker. If this dumb kid doesn't even understand that the dead turn into walkers he has no right to be in this world.
What about her age makes it any less "unforgivable"? Chuck said it best in Season One. "You aren't a girl, and you aren't little. You're either dead or alive and that's that."
Well, that's all up to your morals I guess. If you don't think shooting an 11 year old girl is any worse than shooting a 50 year old man, then so be it.
What about her age makes it any less "unforgivable"? Chuck said it best in Season One. "You aren't a girl, and you aren't little. You're either dead or alive and that's that."
Yeah, that's what pisses me off. The fans of Kenny ate it up with glee, never mind that they're effectively justifying the abuse of prisoners by saying they MIGHT POTENTIALLY hurt someone innocent.
But people tend not to take any responsibility for bad things to happen to them. Never mind that they're happy to blame Arvo for his group getting killed by Clem's people, or happy to blame Sarah for Carver overreacting and murdering Reggie...
I guess it's a stretch to say this with the evidence given to us in the actual game, but I believe that had Kenny not terrorised Arvo and tr… moreeat him less as a punching bag and more as someone who made a stupid mistake that gets his team killed, the shooting of Clementine wouldn't have happened.
I've seen it pretty much everywhere. 95% of fans' thoughts on Arvo boil down to "I felt bad for the kid until he shot Clem. Fuck him."
I still feel bad for him despite him hurting Clem, because what Kenny did to him was wrong and framed to resemble Carver's mistreatment of his prisoners. Just as I forgave Nick for being jumpy.
Why would Arvo even assume Clem killed his sister when she was obviously a walker.
I dunno, maybe because he thougth the CPR was working?
Just a thougth.
Well, I offered Arvo a swig of alcohol and he freakin' screamed at me. Later he shot me. Oh yeah, and I DIDN'T let Jane take his bag, yet he returned with his mob to call me a robber & threaten us all at gunpoint, so yeah... Fucking prick.
95% of fans' thoughts on Arvo boil down to "I felt bad for the kid until he shot Clem. Fuck him."
And? This doesn´t have to with what I was talking about. I just said that I never saw a Kenny fan justify the abuse of Arvo because 'they MIGHT POTENTIALLY hurt someone innocent'.
I've seen it pretty much everywhere. 95% of fans' thoughts on Arvo boil down to "I felt bad for the kid until he shot Clem. Fuck him."
… moreI still feel bad for him despite him hurting Clem, because what Kenny did to him was wrong and framed to resemble Carver's mistreatment of his prisoners. Just as I forgave Nick for being jumpy.
Comments
For not giving him "any excuses" you're sure giving him a lot of excuses here. I don't care how old he is. Hes old enough to know that shooting a little girl with a rifle is screwed up thing to do. I would guess Arvo is 18-20. Around my age. Being a little closer to someone in age doesn't make the actions any more justifiable. There are going to be people like me who never forgive him for doing what he did. I don't care what his exact age is, I don't care what his reasoning was.
I don't know why you start out by saying age doesn't matter but then go on to give an age excuse in the very next sentence..
Until the translation was released, a lot of people were confused if he did or didn't. After it was released, thought, it was set in stone that he didn't.
I said ''give him a break''--or perhaps I can use a different expression that best suits you.
"cut him some slack''; ''ease up on him'';''don't be so harsh''. All of these are not ''forgive him completely and totally and forget the things that he had done''
It just means "stop treating him like he's Satan's first born son"!
Not really. Its basically saying let up on him.
I perfectly understand what Arvo did, but I'm not going to give him a break.
Dude, I was agreeing with you.
Well, not everybody watched the translation. Mostly everybody, I suppose, but thinking that everybody knows about the traslation is a little bit unrealistic. I myself didn´t know about it up until a few days ago.
Also, by 'kind of thick', I mean that people don´t even try to see Arvo´s side of the issue.
I've explained several times that pity isn't what I'm looking for for Arvo--just for people to understand his thoughts and emotions because, surprisingly enough, there is a huge amount of people that think Arvo shot Clementine for no reason.
Please don't spin that age argument again. I'm sick of it. I know you mean well and your morality is in the right place but--honestly, analyze this for a second.
Age doesn't matter. Arvo is at most 18 and, the youngest I've seen speculated is 15. It's not like he's Lee's age--the fact that she's a child means nothing to him because he's a child too. Also, the whole point of him doing it in the first place was exacting revenge for the sister he thought Clementine shot dead.
Kenny said it best; ''You think just because you're a little girl you can just get people killed?'' There's no passes for Clementine just because she's a kid. There's no room for passes in the apocalypse.
Also, thank you for the input. I really appreciate people you, even if I can't change their mind, see and respect the effort I put into this. Instead of just calling me some crazy asshole and attempting to make me feel like shit.
He is asking you to understand why not what.
No, no, it was a reply to Belan.
Ah, oops. Sorry.
Yes. That's what I said. "Let up" doesn't mean ''Let go", though.
As long as you understand. That's all I'm trying to accomplish here. Get people to see both sides. I'm a firm believer in the ''two sides to every story'' so I like to be informed.
I'm drawing a parallel. If all of you are going to throw Clem's age at my face, am I not allowed to use his? Seems like a bit of a double standard, doesn't it?
Look, I really hate Arvo. If he appears in season 3, and I get the option to shoot him, I could do it withouth thinking that much about it. But still, your comment is not helping.
Maybe I should have been more clear, but yes, that is what I meant. I understand why Arvo did what he did, but I'm not going to give him a break.
I understand that..
That's all I wanted to accomplish.
Okay, then.
What's worse is that by making him shoot Clem no matter what, they've retroactively justified Kenny being a bigoted, abusive ass towards him. It's okay that a young, disabled, frightened boy is forced to lose his family and then constantly be beaten and terrorized because he eventually shoots a kid.
Just because someone is wrong for reacting to abuse by hurting innocent people doesn't absolve the person who hurt them in the first place. Indeed, it actually puts them at fault.
wayyy to long didn't read lol
He pulls his gun on her first, unless you beat him to it. Also, he shoots Clem even when she gives her gun up, which kind of erases that argument.
Nick was just paranoid and he panicked. I don't even excuse what he did either, but it is not the same thing as the Arvo situation.
Where has it ever been said that she was 15? Maybe Christa should be judged harsher for this reaction, I don't know. All I know is that what Arvo did was messed up, and I won't give him any slack for it.
Remember that when Clem first meets him, he's terrified at the prospect at having to shoot someone - particularly a girl - and likely wouldn't have gone through with it if Clem simply talked him down.
It's after experiencing the trauma of losing his family due to their group overreacting (it was Buricko who wanted to rob Clem's group of everything, just as he was the one who opened fire) and then getting constantly beaten by Kenny that he hardened into a more dangerous person. Keep in mind that he evidently had no grudge against Mike, Bonnie or Luke - especially since the writers made sure that Mike was the only guy who made a real effort to befriend Arvo.
That's because Clem_is_awesome is the apex Kenny fan.
Yeah, that's what pisses me off. The fans of Kenny ate it up with glee, never mind that they're effectively justifying the abuse of prisoners by saying they MIGHT POTENTIALLY hurt someone innocent.
Okay? I wrote it for people that are intelligent enough to read it--or want to.
I guess it's a stretch to say this with the evidence given to us in the actual game, but I believe that had Kenny not terrorised Arvo and treat him less as a punching bag and more as someone who made a stupid mistake that gets his team killed, the shooting of Clementine wouldn't have happened.
If you try to negotiate with Arvo in Episode 4, he clearly regrets that his group went too far and tells Clem that he wished they met in better circumstances. "You were kind. That is not common." It's also not at all his fault that his sister died when it was Buricko who started the gunfight, and likely one of Clem's group members (Kenny?) who shot his sister. Also remember that as far as Arvo was concerned, he saw his sister crawling towards Clem and assumed she was alive when Clem shot her.
And what's wrong with him being defiant? People admire Kenny's stupid bravado when he took Carver's beating, and so do I. Even if you know that it'll hurt you, it's admirable to stand up to people abusing you rather than simply sniveling and cowering. I LIKED that Arvo was strong enough to tell Kenny to fuck off, and that he refused to beg for mercy while Kenny went off on him like an overgrown child.
But what about his age makes shooting a little girl more "understandable"..?
This is actually the worst Arvo defense I have ever heard. It is based upon faulty logic. Why would Arvo even assume Clem killed his sister when she was obviously a walker. If this dumb kid doesn't even understand that the dead turn into walkers he has no right to be in this world.
Nope. I am the apex Kenny fan.
What about her age makes it any less "unforgivable"? Chuck said it best in Season One. "You aren't a girl, and you aren't little. You're either dead or alive and that's that."
He never thoroughly looks at her to see if she had turned.
Plus, Kenny holds him hostage and only sees her crawling away during the struggle, and assumes that she's trying to crawl away from the gunfire.
I dunno, maybe because he thougth the CPR was working?
Just a thougth.
Well, that's all up to your morals I guess. If you don't think shooting an 11 year old girl is any worse than shooting a 50 year old man, then so be it.
Nobody said this.
It's quite likely that was the case.
But people tend not to take any responsibility for bad things to happen to them. Never mind that they're happy to blame Arvo for his group getting killed by Clem's people, or happy to blame Sarah for Carver overreacting and murdering Reggie...
I've seen it pretty much everywhere. 95% of fans' thoughts on Arvo boil down to "I felt bad for the kid until he shot Clem. Fuck him."
I still feel bad for him despite him hurting Clem, because what Kenny did to him was wrong and framed to resemble Carver's mistreatment of his prisoners. Just as I forgave Nick for being jumpy.
Huh, just like how people believed that performing CPR on Larry would have brought him back...
Well, I offered Arvo a swig of alcohol and he freakin' screamed at me. Later he shot me. Oh yeah, and I DIDN'T let Jane take his bag, yet he returned with his mob to call me a robber & threaten us all at gunpoint, so yeah... Fucking prick.
And? This doesn´t have to with what I was talking about. I just said that I never saw a Kenny fan justify the abuse of Arvo because 'they MIGHT POTENTIALLY hurt someone innocent'.
Larry was unsalvagable. Besides, what does this have to with what I said?