Dales was still way before they would have had chance to do Sarita out of the horde. And again that was only the bottom of the leg, let alone the arm which has a way faster supply of blood.
...
God, god.
It may seen like I am repeating myself to much, but Dale´s amputation was not 'literally immediate' and he only died because he got bitten again.
Dales was still way before they would have had chance to do Sarita out of the horde. And again that was only the bottom of the leg, let alone the arm which has a way faster supply of blood.
You're comparing trusting Clementine to carry out a mission to intentionally causing damage? That doesn't make any sense at all and you know it. If you don't want to go as far as to say Kenny is a hero, then fine, you can be that way, but Kenny deserves a nod for doing the right thing. (As an aside, I find it so ironic that you're trying to be so self righteous about this, while you're actively arguing for abandoning a baby for survival reasons in a different thread..)
I dont claim to be a good person, but when something is mistakenly treated as heroic act, of course im going to point out how thats false statement.
Trusting Clementine has nothing to do with this. Kenny caused the situation to be possible with his stubbornness and taking the blame for it doesnt make it a heroic act.
Also, you can't straight up refuse to take the radio, you can only suggest that Mike should do it. Clementine never says anything along the lines of refusing to do what Kenny wants.
Mike wanted to prove himself to the group and i wanted to give him a chance, but Kenny refused because he didnt trust Mike. There would have been time, but Kenny being all stubborn about it left him no option but to give it to Clem, because Troy came there.
I can't speak to the Bonnie-water situation as I seriously don't have time to go look up what happens in that scene when asking to not be forced to squeeze through the small opening. Either way, this is pretty minor by comparison.
Clem can be a little hostile in this situation and complain
" thats not funny. I dont see why im the one that has to crawl into danger, just cause im the smallest."
Try to stay on the subject, Belan.
Oh please. How am I not?
If you set a house on fire and extinguish it after, you're not a h… moreero.
You're comparing trusting Clementine to carry out a mission to intentionally causing damage? That doesn't make any sense at all and you know it. If you don't want to go as far as to say Kenny is a hero, then fine, you can be that way, but Kenny deserves a nod for doing the right thing.
(As an aside, I find it so ironic that you're trying to be so self righteous about this, while you're actively arguing for abandoning a baby for survival reasons in a different thread..)
Kenny was risk taking by having Clem carry out the mission and he put her into harm's way, but she was simply being a team player. She was the best option. And once again I'll state that there was zero time to even discuss the matter, because Troy came into the room. You're ignoring the fact that the group had Clementine d… [view original content]
In my playthrough I hacked at the Zombie's head, Sarita still died and Kenny was still mad at me. How does that make any sense?Kenny is being unreasonable here. Besides, Kenny and Clem probably only know Lee and that dude at Carver's, who had an arm amputated. So even if it is possible to survive a bite without immediat amputation, Kenny probably wouldn't even know that...
She was already dead before those things happened - her body just hadn't caught up yet.
Wow. Just wow. Are you serious? Not all bitt… moreen people will die. There his always a chance.
So I just going to repeat myself:
Did you miss the part in which Sarita gets bitten tree more times after Clem cuts off her arm, did you miss the option you get to axe Sarita, did you miss that she could not have screamed and gotted killed if Clem did not cut off her arm in the middle of a walker herd?
I'm amazed that 8 people agree with you blaming a little girl for making a grown woman scream and get eaten by zombies.
But she did.… more
The truth is, Clem tried harder than anybody else to save Sarita.
Yes. Does change that Sarita died because of her.
Especially Kenny, who fails to respect Sarita's wishes by amputating her limb when they're out of harm's way.
What?
walking out of the herd would take too long so Clem did the right thing.... and if she didn't sream like that in a herd of walkers she would maybe be in seas 3
...
God, god.
It may seen like I am repeating myself to much, but Dale´s amputation was not 'literally immediate' and he only died because he got bitten again.
So, according to you, Sarita should have reacted like this:
Sarita (internal monologue): Holy shit, Clem just cut off my arm and It freak… moreing hurts and why did she do that...Oh, wait. Reggie told us the amputation worked, better hold this unbearable pain and not scream, because human beings totally can do that.
Seriously?
How about... no.
Got to agree with that about Kenny being petty. I mean I agreed with Kenny in everything in my first season 1 game play-through (so I though… moret) and still he didn't want to help me find Clem. I must have disagreed with him one time and that was enough for him to dis me. But luckily I responded to Kenny with the "right words" to him when mentioning family and how close Clem was to Lee. But concealed the bite and thus Christa and Omid declined to help find the little girl. I told Ben to make his own decision and he chooses to stay behind.
Lets see if want to mingle with the group if you saw your girl/wife die before your eyes, he just wanted some alone time. And apologised after , rebecca was right behind her so no harm was done.
Kenny is a broken man, do you remember his face when you had too shoot duck? Intense sadness and the most of us wouldn't even be able to handle that shit....
He did some wrong things but who didn't ? I mean Bonnie smashed a womans face in in 400 days. Mike left Clem behind when she was shot so everyone has something...
Why should he grab Sarita?
She is bitten, she is weak, she is dying.
Not enougth reasons for you?
nt see why its so bad tha… moret he leaves her Its not like im saying him doing that makes him evil or whatever its just what he does in the heat of the moment
That you said that he leaves her is bad because he never leaves her.
Again lest just leave it neither or us is going to sway the other here, I think he leaves her there in the heat of the moment thats it, you can think differently thats fine
Okay. I think you don´t really understand his character, is you really think he could leave Clem behind, but okay.
walking out of the herd would take too long so Clem did the right thing.... and if she didn't sream like that in a herd of walkers she would maybe be in seas 3
Yes. Does change that Sarita died because of her.
her screaming her lungs out was the reason if you didn't chop the walkers head, she'll die either way
Yes it would have taken too long, remember Lee ?
And if she did scream her bleeding would have stopped? Or do you mean that she gets eaten so had no chance to bleed out..
The walker that bit her killed her, troll
But i'm done talking to a troll now
walking out of the herd would take too long
Nope.
so Clem did the right thing....
Clem killed Sarita.
and if she… more didn't sream like that in a herd of walkers she would maybe be in seas 3
If she didn´t scream like that she could have bleed out.
Exactly, And I dont hate Kenny for doing this but the point is HE DOES do it, I dont see why people seem to think one act= evil. Kenny isnt evil for leaving her he's real for doing so
Lets see if want to mingle with the group if you saw your girl/wife die before your eyes, he just wanted some alone time. And apologised aft… moreer , rebecca was right behind her so no harm was done.
Kenny is a broken man, do you remember his face when you had too shoot duck? Intense sadness and the most of us wouldn't even be able to handle that shit....
He did some wrong things but who didn't ? I mean Bonnie smashed a womans face in in 400 days. Mike left Clem behind when she was shot so everyone has something...
Yes it would have taken too long, remember Lee ?
And if she did scream her bleeding would have stopped? Or do you mean that she gets eaten … moreso had no chance to bleed out..
The walker that bit her killed her, troll
But i'm done talking to a troll now
Exactly, And I dont hate Kenny for doing this but the point is HE DOES do it, I dont see why people seem to think one act= evil. Kenny isnt evil for leaving her he's real for doing so
But he doesn´t leave her. How many times to I have to explain that?
Exactly, And I dont hate Kenny for doing this but the point is HE DOES do it, I dont see why people seem to think one act= evil. Kenny isnt evil for leaving her he's real for doing so
I am just going to leave this here:
Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm, making her scream, the scream atracts the walkers to her and she is dr… moreagged to the ground and killed.
How is that not her fault?
And if you don´t cut off her arm, she becomes unsalvagable because you did not do anything when you could.
How is that not her fault?
Clem cuts off Sarita´s arm, making her scream, the scream atracts the walkers to her and she is dragged to the ground and killed.
So… moreunds like Sarita should've kept her big fat yapper shut then. Clementine wasn't screaming, it was all Sarita's fault.
Because she was already dead! Why are you finding this hard to understand? BipedalP's point still holds up firmly. It wasn't Clem's fault for her death. Not even remotely.
Well, if you cut off her arm, she either bleeds out, you axe Sarita, or the three more bites caused her to die. All of which are actions of Clementine and their consequences. How is that not her fault? Explain.
It wasn't Clem's fault for her death. Not even remotely.
Well, if you cut off her arm, she either bleeds out, you axe Sarita, or the three more bites caused her to die. All of which are actions of Clementine and their consequences. How is that not her fault? Explain.
Because she was already dead! Why are you finding this hard to understand? BipedalP's point still holds up firmly. It wasn't Clem's fault for her death. Not even remotely.
In that case you are blaming Kenny for Lee's death?
Ultimately it was Kenny's and Katjaa's fault for stealing the supplies. Just like how Duck's death can be put as Ben's fault.
That still doesn't tell me who the 'them' was. No one else's death was directly influenced by the stranger.
Strangers wife and daughter died because of the robbery. After they saw that all their stuff was gone, she started to blame the Stranger and eventually left with her daughter (she was already disappointed with Stranger, becuase they lost their son that day while hunting, and she didnt want the boy to go hunt).
The cause and effect of Kenny stealing the supplies and 'condemning them to death' is too far-fetched.
No its not. After they found out that all their supplies were gone, the wife started to blame the Stranger more and more as she got hungrier and eventually she just took off with her daughter. Next day the Stranger found them dead.
In that case you are blaming Kenny for Lee's death? That still doesn't tell me who the 'them' was. No one else's death was directly influenc… moreed by the stranger.
The cause and effect of Kenny stealing the supplies and 'condemning them to death' is too far-fetched.
Sarita's scream drew walkers toward her and no one else.
Kenny ran after Arvo on the ice. Which meant the ice cracked under Luke, which meant either Bonnie or Clem went over to him, which meant the ice broke under him, which meant he froze to death, which meant Luke's death was Kenny's fault.
What sense does that make though? You're adding to the equation.
You're saying because a chain of events was started and Clem happened to be the third thing down the chain, it's her fault? Sarita fucked up by getting bit, simple as that. What ever happened after was out of Sarita's court.
Sarita's scream drew walkers toward her and no one else.
Who made her scream, genious?
Which meant the ice cracked under Luke,
The ice already had a crack before that.
What sense does that make though? You're adding to the equation.
You are the one who doesn´t make sense.
You're saying because a chain of events was started and Clem happened to be the third thing down the chain, it's her fault?
Nope. I am saying that Clem cuts off the arm. That makes Sarita scream. That makes Sarita get killed. That makes Sarita´s death Clem´s fault. I am saying that even if Sarita did not scream she was going to bleed out anyway. I am saying that cutting the arm in the middle of a walker herd is stupid. I am saying that Sarita got bitten tree times because of Clem, I am saying that all that happens to Sarita if you cut off her arm is all Clem´s fault.
Nah.
Sarita's scream drew walkers toward her and no one else.
Kenny ran after Arvo on the ice. Which meant the ice cracked under Luke,… more which meant either Bonnie or Clem went over to him, which meant the ice broke under him, which meant he froze to death, which meant Luke's death was Kenny's fault.
What sense does that make though? You're adding to the equation.
You're saying because a chain of events was started and Clem happened to be the third thing down the chain, it's her fault? Sarita fucked up by getting bit, simple as that. What ever happened after was out of Sarita's court.
I dont claim to be a good person, but when something is mistakenly treated as heroic act, of course im going to point out how thats false statement.
It's ironic. In the other thread you're arguing in terms of being a survivalist. You're arguing for what needs to be done to keep yourself alive. So in regards to the beating incident, how would you view Kenny's actions? I mean, based on the logic that you use to support Jane/ your own morals, Kenny didn't have to do anything at all in that situation. It would have put himself in danger. He should have kept his head down and let Clementine take her own chances, right?
I simply don't understand how you can be so blatantly callous in regards to caring for a baby in the apocalypse and yet place moral expectations on Kenny in this situation (as in, he should have taken the blame anyway, therefore his actions were not heroic). Its an inconsistency in judgement on your part. To clarify, if your same principles of logic (self safety, survivalism) followed over from your other discussions, you shouldn't have the expectation that Kenny should put himself in direct danger to make sure Clementine is safe. That goes against the whole selfish, self serving agenda you’re using to justify leaving a baby for dead in the apocalypse.
Trusting Clementine has nothing to do with this. Kenny caused the situation to be possible with his stubbornness and taking the blame for it doesnt make it a heroic act.
Umm… what? Excuse my word choice I guess, but you’re entirely missing the point. The analogy you made was pretty ridiculous and unrelatable. Let me reword what I had originally said: You’re comparing giving Clem an important mission in regards to helping the group to safety in comparison to intentionally or recklessly causing harm? That doesn’t make any sense.
I do agree with you in the fact that Kenny should have taken the blame for the radio. That doesn’t change the fact that the act was selfless. That doesn’t change the fact that his actions can be viewed as heroic.
Mike wanted to prove himself to the group and i wanted to give him a chance, but Kenny refused because he didnt trust Mike. There would have been time, but Kenny being all stubborn about it left him no option but to give it to Clem, because Troy came there
Okay, your reasoning for wanting Mike to take the radio is great and all, but the point is that there was no chance for any sort of discussion such as this. Kenny simply made his points for why he thought Clementine needed to be the one to do it, and then Troy walked in and the conversation ended.
It doesn't even matter really. Kenny was selfless in making sure Clementine didn't receive punishment. That can be seen as heroic, regardless of the fact that it was the right thing to do anyway.
You're comparing trusting Clementine to carry out a mission to intentionally causing damage? That doesn't make any sense at all and you know… more it. If you don't want to go as far as to say Kenny is a hero, then fine, you can be that way, but Kenny deserves a nod for doing the right thing. (As an aside, I find it so ironic that you're trying to be so self righteous about this, while you're actively arguing for abandoning a baby for survival reasons in a different thread..)
I dont claim to be a good person, but when something is mistakenly treated as heroic act, of course im going to point out how thats false statement.
Trusting Clementine has nothing to do with this. Kenny caused the situation to be possible with his stubbornness and taking the blame for it doesnt make it a heroic act.
Also, you can't straight up refuse to take the radio, you can only suggest that Mike should do it. Clementine never says anything along the lines … [view original content]
Your wrong and the one armed man explained why, an half hour is to much probably 25 minutes too late
No the bite doesn't kill her, sure the whole game is about beeing bit or dying and becoming a walker she was srewed if clem didn't cut her arm off
Yes it would have taken too long, remember Lee ?
Remember that Lee took hours and that getting Sarita out of the herd should not eve… moren take half a hour?
Or do you mean that she gets eaten so had no chance to bleed out..
I mean that the moment Celm cut off her arm Sarita was either going to get eaten or bleed out.
The walker that bit her killed her,
The bite doesn´t kill her if Clem cuts Sarita´s arm off. Clem kills her.
It's ironic. In the other thread you're arguing in terms of being a survivalist. You're arguing for what needs to be done to keep yourself alive. So in regards to the beating incident, how would you view Kenny's actions?
From moral point of view, it was the right thing to do, considering that he is the one who put Clementine in that mess in the first place.
I mean, based on the logic that you use to support Jane/ your own morals, Kenny didn't have to do anything at all in that situation. It would have put himself in danger. He should have kept his head down and let Clementine take her own chances, right?
Yeah, he didnt have to do anything, but obviously Kenny did the thing he thought was right.
That goes against the whole selfish, self serving agenda you’re using to justify leaving a baby for dead in the apocalypse.
The difference is that i would look after people i care about, but i couldnt possibly have any feelings towards a baby. This may be a harsh example, but i would care about a baby as much as brain dead person. There is just nothing to care about them. No personality, no worldview, no thoughts, no communication... And putting aside all that, a baby would put others in unnecessary risk. If someone is putting me or my friends life at risk constantly, it doesnt matter if its an adult or a baby, i would leave them behind.
That doesn’t change the fact that the act was selfless.
The situation was still his fault. You dont get extra points for saving someone from situation you put them in.
Okay, your reasoning for wanting Mike to take the radio is great and all, but the point is that there was no chance for any sort of discussion such as this. Kenny simply made his points for why he thought Clementine needed to be the one to do it, and then Troy walked in and the conversation ended.
Yeah, there was no time to discuss it because Kenny disagreed with Clementine and Mike. But knowing how stubborn Kenny usually is, even if there was time, the radio would most likely go to Clementine.
I dont claim to be a good person, but when something is mistakenly treated as heroic act, of course im going to point out how thats false st… moreatement.
It's ironic. In the other thread you're arguing in terms of being a survivalist. You're arguing for what needs to be done to keep yourself alive. So in regards to the beating incident, how would you view Kenny's actions? I mean, based on the logic that you use to support Jane/ your own morals, Kenny didn't have to do anything at all in that situation. It would have put himself in danger. He should have kept his head down and let Clementine take her own chances, right?
I simply don't understand how you can be so blatantly callous in regards to caring for a baby in the apocalypse and yet place moral expectations on Kenny in this situation (as in, he should have taken the blame anyway, therefore his actions were not heroic). Its an inconsistency in judgement on your part. To clarify, if… [view original content]
Your wrong and the one armed man explained why, an half hour is to much probably 25 minutes too late
Said one armed man took hours. A half hour was a exageration-Clem took a few minutes to get out the herd, and nothing more.
she was srewed if clem didn't cut her arm off
Even if we asumme you are rigth-which you aren´t-, is this enougth reason to forget that Clem cutting Sarita´s arm off ends up killing Sarita, thus is Clem´s fault?
Your wrong and the one armed man explained why, an half hour is to much probably 25 minutes too late
No the bite doesn't kill her, sure the whole game is about beeing bit or dying and becoming a walker she was srewed if clem didn't cut her arm off
There was plenty of reason to try. Bonnie and Mike went on about doing things for the good of the group, and sticking together. But the minute someone disagrees with them, the only option is to steal all the supplies and only car? That's just bullshit. People disagreed with Kenny all the time, but you don't see him stealing from his own group. It wasn't necessary to ensure their own survival, they were in a group. Yes, the group was having issues deciding on a course of action, but there was no threat of lives being taken. Maybe they wouldn't get their way, but it's really not that hard to continue to travel with a group until you come across another car, or at least a safer place to split up without condemning others to die.
You don't care if an unknown baby dies. There is a monumental difference between letting a grown person die and letting an infant die. One is capable of protecting themselves, the other is completely defenseless.
I believe a shootout still would have happened. Clem's group was not going to give up any supplies (again, if they still had them) that they needed. Maud and Arvo wanted to back down when they saw that Clem's group was armed as well. Understandably so, because if a shootout were to happen, deaths are inevitable.
They still didn't even try. That doesn't mean it's ok to steal all of the supplies and only car from their own group. Frankly, I don't under… morestand why you're defending their actions.
There was no reason to try. Of course it wasnt ok to steal all the supplies, but it was necessary to ensure their own survival (try to think this from their pov).
If you could live with yourself, then it's up to you. I know I wouldn't be able to forgive myself.
Yes, i would be able to live with myself. I dont care if unknown person dies. More than few hundred people died while i was writing message and i didnt give a shit about any of them. That is how i see AJ.
So what was the point of saying they didn't have the intention of killing the group when they ambushed them? They clearly did when they don't get what they want. You're making a contradiction.
Half of the russian group wanted to back off (Maud, Arvo), so we have no idea what would have happened if Clem/Kenny didnt trigger the fight.
There was plenty of reason to try. Bonnie and Mike went on about doing things for the good of the group, and sticking together. But the minute someone disagrees with them, the only option is to steal all the supplies and only car? That's just bullshit. People disagreed with Kenny all the time, but you don't see him stealing from his own group.
Kenny made it clear that the car is going north, even if everyone else in the group disagreed. Kenny was planning to steal from the group. The minute someone is risking your life, you're not justified to do something to ensure your own survival?
but there was no threat of lives being taken. Maybe they wouldn't get their way, but it's really not that hard to continue to travel with a group until you come across another car, or at least a safer place to split up without condemning others to die.
Why would they go deeper to the shit they were avoiding? You know, cars get in bad condition after 2 years of no maintenance. They were lucky with the car Kenny got working.
You don't care if an unknown baby dies. There is a monumental difference between letting a grown person die, and letting an infant die. One is capable of protecting themselves, the other is completely defenseless.
There is no difference from my pov. Both baby or grown up idiot put others in danger. Are mentally handicapped people also justified to get others killed, because the condition is not their fault?
I stil believe a shootout still would have happened. Clem's group was not going to give up any supplies(again, if they still had them) that they needed. Maud and Arvo wanted to back down when they saw that Clem's group was armed as well. Understandably so, because if a shootout were to happen, deaths are inevitable.
You dont know that. If Maud and Arvo just left, Vitali and Buricko wouldnt had a chance to win them.
There was plenty of reason to try. Bonnie and Mike went on about doing things for the good of the group, and sticking together. But the minu… morete someone disagrees with them, the only option is to steal all the supplies and only car? That's just bullshit. People disagreed with Kenny all the time, but you don't see him stealing from his own group. It wasn't necessary to ensure their own survival, they were in a group. Yes, the group was having issues deciding on a course of action, but there was no threat of lives being taken. Maybe they wouldn't get their way, but it's really not that hard to continue to travel with a group until you come across another car, or at least a safer place to split up without condemning others to die.
You don't care if an unknown baby dies. There is a monumental difference between letting a grown person die and letting an infant die. One is capable of protecting themselves, the other is completely defenseless.
I… [view original content]
He wasn't stealing from the group by saying where the car is going. He didn't say they couldn't come, and he didn't try to steal it in the middle of the night. He was being stubborn, but he wasn't going to leave anyone behind unless they refused to go with him. They weren't in a situation where their lives were being actively threatened, unless they are, I don't see how it's even remotely smart to betray your own group.
Because by waiting for a more opportune moment, they wouldn't be condemning a kid and an infant to death because of their selfishness. There very well might have been a working car, there were a lot of cars there.
There was plenty of reason to try. Bonnie and Mike went on about doing things for the good of the group, and sticking together. But the minu… morete someone disagrees with them, the only option is to steal all the supplies and only car? That's just bullshit. People disagreed with Kenny all the time, but you don't see him stealing from his own group.
Kenny made it clear that the car is going north, even if everyone else in the group disagreed. Kenny was planning to steal from the group. The minute someone is risking your life, you're not justified to do something to ensure your own survival?
but there was no threat of lives being taken. Maybe they wouldn't get their way, but it's really not that hard to continue to travel with a group until you come across another car, or at least a safer place to split up without condemning others to die.
Why would they go deeper to the shit they were avoiding? You know, cars get in bad condi… [view original content]
He wasn't stealing from the group by saying where the car is going. He didn't say they couldn't come, and he didn't try to steal it in the middle of the night.
Others said they dont want to go north and he says the car goes north. Even if Clem says the Wellington is just a story, he says "tomorrow you'll see how wrong you are".
He was being stubborn, but he wasn't going to leave anyone behind unless they refused to go with him.
Yeah, and the point was that no one wanted to go with him to north. Clem was the only determinant one.
They weren't in a situation where their lives were being actively threatened, unless they are I don't see how it's even remotely smart to betray your own group.
They were at north, where they could easily freeze to death. They had a car and one member of the group wanted to force everyone else to go deeper to north. Cant really see how thats not a threat to their lives.
Because by waiting for a more opportune moment, they wouldn't be condemning a kid, and an infant to death because of their selfishness. There very well might have been a working car, there were a lot of cars there.
You cant blame them for caring more about their own lives more than someone elses.
He wasn't stealing from the group by saying where the car is going. He didn't say they couldn't come, and he didn't try to steal it in the m… moreiddle of the night. He was being stubborn, but he wasn't going to leave anyone behind unless they refused to go with him. They weren't in a situation where their lives were being actively threatened, unless they are, I don't see how it's even remotely smart to betray your own group.
Because by waiting for a more opportune moment, they wouldn't be condemning a kid and an infant to death because of their selfishness. There very well might have been a working car, there were a lot of cars there.
Neither of us know. I'm just stating my opinion.
Again, that doesn't mean he's stealing the car by deciding it's destination. He didn't say anyone couldn't come. He meant he was going to prove to her that Wellington exists.
I'd argue that they didn't hear about Wellington because they were locked up in Howe's. I still stand by my point that because nobody helped him fix the car, that he had every right to decide where it goes.
I mean that the people in the group weren't threatening their lives. Going down south or back to Howe's is just as life threatening. Going anywhere is life threatening in the apocalypse. I believe that if you're in a group, that the smartest thing to do is stick with that group until a better time to leave arises.
I blame them for attempting to steal all the supplies and only car from a child and an infant. I've already stated that I don't care that they wanted to leave, it's the way they went about it.
He wasn't stealing from the group by saying where the car is going. He didn't say they couldn't come, and he didn't try to steal it in the m… moreiddle of the night.
Others said they dont want to go north and he says the car goes north. Even if Clem says the Wellington is just a story, he says "tomorrow you'll see how wrong you are".
He was being stubborn, but he wasn't going to leave anyone behind unless they refused to go with him.
Yeah, and the point was that no one wanted to go with him to north. Clem was the only determinant one.
They weren't in a situation where their lives were being actively threatened, unless they are I don't see how it's even remotely smart to betray your own group.
They were at north, where they could easily freeze to death. They had a car and one member of the group wanted to force everyone else to go deeper to north. Cant really see how thats not a threat to their lives.
Becaus… [view original content]
Again, that doesn't mean he's stealing the car, by deciding it's destination. He didn't say anyone couldn't come. He meant he was going to prove to her that Wellington exists.
Please, do explain how leaving 4 out of 5 man group behind, so you can go north, isnt stealing? To me, it sounded like he was planning to force Clementine to come with him. And later in the car with Jane and Kenny, they are going north, even if Clementine didnt want to go there.
I'd argue that is because they didn't hear about Wellington because they were locked up in Howe's. I still stand by my point that because nobody helped him fix the car, that he had every right to decide where it goes.
And others had every right to ensure their survival by taking that car. People had heard about Wellington, they didnt know for a fact that it existed. Clem can even say that Wellington is just a story, showing that she doesnt know if it really exists. Even Kenny admits that Wellington might be bs, but he clearly wants believe it exists.
Going down south, or back to Howe;s is just as life threatening. Going anywhere is life threatening in the apocalypse. I believe that if you're in a group, that the smartest thing to do is stick with that group until a better time to leave arises.
Yeah, its dangerous no matter where you go, but only in north its cold enough that you can freeze to death.
I blame them for attempting to steal all the supplies and only car from a child and an infant. I've already stated that I don't care that they wanted to leave, it's the way they went about it.
I know it was a shitty thing to do, but i cant blame them for it, because i would have done the same to anyone else, if my survival was at stake. They didnt even have any food for the baby, so AJ life wasnt put in any greater risk than it already was.
Again, that doesn't mean he's stealing the car by deciding it's destination. He didn't say anyone couldn't come. He meant he was going to pr… moreove to her that Wellington exists.
I'd argue that they didn't hear about Wellington because they were locked up in Howe's. I still stand by my point that because nobody helped him fix the car, that he had every right to decide where it goes.
I mean that the people in the group weren't threatening their lives. Going down south or back to Howe's is just as life threatening. Going anywhere is life threatening in the apocalypse. I believe that if you're in a group, that the smartest thing to do is stick with that group until a better time to leave arises.
I blame them for attempting to steal all the supplies and only car from a child and an infant. I've already stated that I don't care that they wanted to leave, it's the way they went about it.
He was giving them a choice. Bonnie and Mike didn't give anyone a choice. Well, my Clem wanted to go to Wellington because Christa told her about it, so that's determinate.
No, because they're stealing from their own group, the group who has helped protect them. And because there are two children that will die if they succeeded in stealing the truck. Personally, I think it's a better idea to look for a place that other people have heard of instead of going down to Texas with no set destination, or back to Howe's, which realistically should still be infested in walkers.
If they know that it's cold enough to freeze to death, then the fact that they were going to leave people in a half built house in the middle of nowhere just makes them look even worse. That would mean that they were aware they were condemning them to death.
Again, that doesn't mean he's stealing the car, by deciding it's destination. He didn't say anyone couldn't come. He meant he was going to p… morerove to her that Wellington exists.
Please, do explain how leaving 4 out of 5 man group behind, so you can go north, isnt stealing? To me, it sounded like he was planning to force Clementine to come with him. And later in the car with Jane and Kenny, they are going north, even if Clementine didnt want to go there.
I'd argue that is because they didn't hear about Wellington because they were locked up in Howe's. I still stand by my point that because nobody helped him fix the car, that he had every right to decide where it goes.
And others had every right to ensure their survival by taking that car. People had heard about Wellington, they didnt know for a fact that it existed. Clem can even say that Wellington is just a story, showing that she doesnt know if it really exists. Even Ken… [view original content]
He was giving them a choice. Bonnie and Mike didn't give anyone a choice. Well, my Clem wanted to go to Wellington because Christa told her about it, so that's determinate.
Only choice Kenny gave them was "die or steal this car", since they said they arent going north.
No, because they're stealing from their own group
The moment Kenny said the car is going north, there were 3 groups. Mike, Bonnie and Arvo. Kenny & Clementine, Jane being alone, or Jane and Clementine, Kenny being alone. They werent stealing from their group, they were stealing for their new group.
Personally, I think it's a better idea to look for a place that other people have hear of, instead of going down to Texas with no set destination, or back to Howe's, which realistically should still be infested in walkers.
Well i'd say thats really stupid and irrational decision, since you have no solid evidence to prove Wellington exists. But since you are religions, i suppose you dont always need solid evidence when you make your decisions.
If they know that it's cold enough to freeze to death, then the fact that they were going to leave people in a half made house in the middle of nowhere just makes them look even worse. That would mean that they were aware they were condemning them to death.
It was either Mike, Bonnie, Arvo, (Clem, Jane) who were left behind, or Kenny, Jane and Clementine. No matter what Mike and Bonnie did, someone was being left behind.
He was giving them a choice. Bonnie and Mike didn't give anyone a choice. Well, my Clem wanted to go to Wellington because Christa told her … moreabout it, so that's determinate.
No, because they're stealing from their own group, the group who has helped protect them. And because there are two children that will die if they succeeded in stealing the truck. Personally, I think it's a better idea to look for a place that other people have heard of instead of going down to Texas with no set destination, or back to Howe's, which realistically should still be infested in walkers.
If they know that it's cold enough to freeze to death, then the fact that they were going to leave people in a half built house in the middle of nowhere just makes them look even worse. That would mean that they were aware they were condemning them to death.
I respect your right to that opinion.
Well i'd say thats really stupid and irrational decision, since you have no solid evidence to prove Wellington exists. But since you are religions, i suppose you dont always need solid evidence when you make your decisions.
Please refrain from insulting personal opinions and beliefs of other users. I'm not going to flag your whole post for this one statement since you otherwise have arguments in them, but please don't do this again. Not only is it disrespectful, but it is also an ad hominem which adds little to the argument you present.
He was giving them a choice. Bonnie and Mike didn't give anyone a choice. Well, my Clem wanted to go to Wellington because Christa told her … moreabout it, so that's determinate.
Only choice Kenny gave them was "die or steal this car", since they said they arent going north.
No, because they're stealing from their own group
The moment Kenny said the car is going north, there were 3 groups. Mike, Bonnie and Arvo. Kenny & Clementine, Jane being alone, or Jane and Clementine, Kenny being alone. They werent stealing from their group, they were stealing for their new group.
Personally, I think it's a better idea to look for a place that other people have hear of, instead of going down to Texas with no set destination, or back to Howe's, which realistically should still be infested in walkers.
Well i'd say thats really stupid and irrational decision, since you have no solid evidence to prove Wellington exists. Bu… [view original content]
Sarita's scream drew walkers toward her and no one else.
Who made her scream, genious?
Which meant the ice cracked under Luke,… more
The ice already had a crack before that.
What sense does that make though? You're adding to the equation.
You are the one who doesn´t make sense.
You're saying because a chain of events was started and Clem happened to be the third thing down the chain, it's her fault?
Nope. I am saying that Clem cuts off the arm. That makes Sarita scream. That makes Sarita get killed. That makes Sarita´s death Clem´s fault. I am saying that even if Sarita did not scream she was going to bleed out anyway. I am saying that cutting the arm in the middle of a walker herd is stupid. I am saying that Sarita got bitten tree times because of Clem, I am saying that all that happens to Sarita if you cut off her arm is all Clem´s fault.
I dont really consider it as an insult and if people see it as one, im sorry. I was simply implying how one can believe in something, without having solid evidence to back up its existance.
Well i'd say thats really stupid and irrational decision, since you have no solid evidence to prove Wellington exists. But since you are rel… moreigions, i suppose you dont always need solid evidence when you make your decisions.
Please refrain from insulting personal opinions and beliefs of other users. I'm not going to flag your whole post for this one statement since you otherwise have arguments in them, but please don't do this again. Not only is it disrespectful, but it is also an ad hominem which adds little to the argument you present.
Comments
Dales was still way before they would have had chance to do Sarita out of the horde. And again that was only the bottom of the leg, let alone the arm which has a way faster supply of blood.
No.
Oops, didn´t think of that. But still, Sarita had some chance. You can´t say that she was as good as dead.
I dont claim to be a good person, but when something is mistakenly treated as heroic act, of course im going to point out how thats false statement.
Trusting Clementine has nothing to do with this. Kenny caused the situation to be possible with his stubbornness and taking the blame for it doesnt make it a heroic act.
Mike wanted to prove himself to the group and i wanted to give him a chance, but Kenny refused because he didnt trust Mike. There would have been time, but Kenny being all stubborn about it left him no option but to give it to Clem, because Troy came there.
Clem can be a little hostile in this situation and complain
" thats not funny. I dont see why im the one that has to crawl into danger, just cause im the smallest."
In my playthrough I hacked at the Zombie's head, Sarita still died and Kenny was still mad at me. How does that make any sense?Kenny is being unreasonable here. Besides, Kenny and Clem probably only know Lee and that dude at Carver's, who had an arm amputated. So even if it is possible to survive a bite without immediat amputation, Kenny probably wouldn't even know that...
her screaming her lungs out was the reason if you didn't chop the walkers head, she'll die either way
walking out of the herd would take too long so Clem did the right thing.... and if she didn't sream like that in a herd of walkers she would maybe be in seas 3
she should have bitten her sleeve or gun or something....
I was shocked at what Kenny did at first, but i had to agree that he could be right. He may have saved the group before something happened
Lets see if want to mingle with the group if you saw your girl/wife die before your eyes, he just wanted some alone time. And apologised after , rebecca was right behind her so no harm was done.
Kenny is a broken man, do you remember his face when you had too shoot duck? Intense sadness and the most of us wouldn't even be able to handle that shit....
He did some wrong things but who didn't ? I mean Bonnie smashed a womans face in in 400 days. Mike left Clem behind when she was shot so everyone has something...
No sure if serious...
Nope.
Clem killed Sarita.
If she didn´t scream like that she could have bleed out.
And whats the reason she screamed? Because Clem chopped her arm off. So who is at fault? Clem.
Yes it would have taken too long, remember Lee ?
And if she did scream her bleeding would have stopped? Or do you mean that she gets eaten so had no chance to bleed out..
The walker that bit her killed her, troll
But i'm done talking to a troll now
Exactly, And I dont hate Kenny for doing this but the point is HE DOES do it, I dont see why people seem to think one act= evil. Kenny isnt evil for leaving her he's real for doing so
Remember that Lee took hours and that getting Sarita out of the herd should not even take half a hour?
I mean that the moment Celm cut off her arm Sarita was either going to get eaten or bleed out.
The bite doesn´t kill her if Clem cuts Sarita´s arm off. Clem kills her.
But he doesn´t leave her. How many times to I have to explain that?
Sounds like Sarita should've kept her big fat yapper shut then. Clementine wasn't screaming, it was all Sarita's fault.
...
Clem cuts off the arm. That makes Sarita scream. That makes Sarita get killed. That makes Sarita´s death Clem´s fault.
Because she was already dead! Why are you finding this hard to understand? BipedalP's point still holds up firmly. It wasn't Clem's fault for her death. Not even remotely.
I agree with this.
Nope.
I could say the same to you.
Ah, ah, ah, good one.
Oh, wait, you are serious.
Well, if you cut off her arm, she either bleeds out, you axe Sarita, or the three more bites caused her to die. All of which are actions of Clementine and their consequences. How is that not her fault? Explain.
Ultimately it was Kenny's and Katjaa's fault for stealing the supplies. Just like how Duck's death can be put as Ben's fault.
Strangers wife and daughter died because of the robbery. After they saw that all their stuff was gone, she started to blame the Stranger and eventually left with her daughter (she was already disappointed with Stranger, becuase they lost their son that day while hunting, and she didnt want the boy to go hunt).
No its not. After they found out that all their supplies were gone, the wife started to blame the Stranger more and more as she got hungrier and eventually she just took off with her daughter. Next day the Stranger found them dead.
Nah.
Sarita's scream drew walkers toward her and no one else.
Kenny ran after Arvo on the ice. Which meant the ice cracked under Luke, which meant either Bonnie or Clem went over to him, which meant the ice broke under him, which meant he froze to death, which meant Luke's death was Kenny's fault.
What sense does that make though? You're adding to the equation.
You're saying because a chain of events was started and Clem happened to be the third thing down the chain, it's her fault? Sarita fucked up by getting bit, simple as that. What ever happened after was out of Sarita's court.
Who made her scream, genious?
The ice already had a crack before that.
You are the one who doesn´t make sense.
Nope. I am saying that Clem cuts off the arm. That makes Sarita scream. That makes Sarita get killed. That makes Sarita´s death Clem´s fault. I am saying that even if Sarita did not scream she was going to bleed out anyway. I am saying that cutting the arm in the middle of a walker herd is stupid. I am saying that Sarita got bitten tree times because of Clem, I am saying that all that happens to Sarita if you cut off her arm is all Clem´s fault.
It's ironic. In the other thread you're arguing in terms of being a survivalist. You're arguing for what needs to be done to keep yourself alive. So in regards to the beating incident, how would you view Kenny's actions? I mean, based on the logic that you use to support Jane/ your own morals, Kenny didn't have to do anything at all in that situation. It would have put himself in danger. He should have kept his head down and let Clementine take her own chances, right?
I simply don't understand how you can be so blatantly callous in regards to caring for a baby in the apocalypse and yet place moral expectations on Kenny in this situation (as in, he should have taken the blame anyway, therefore his actions were not heroic). Its an inconsistency in judgement on your part. To clarify, if your same principles of logic (self safety, survivalism) followed over from your other discussions, you shouldn't have the expectation that Kenny should put himself in direct danger to make sure Clementine is safe. That goes against the whole selfish, self serving agenda you’re using to justify leaving a baby for dead in the apocalypse.
Umm… what? Excuse my word choice I guess, but you’re entirely missing the point. The analogy you made was pretty ridiculous and unrelatable. Let me reword what I had originally said: You’re comparing giving Clem an important mission in regards to helping the group to safety in comparison to intentionally or recklessly causing harm? That doesn’t make any sense.
I do agree with you in the fact that Kenny should have taken the blame for the radio. That doesn’t change the fact that the act was selfless. That doesn’t change the fact that his actions can be viewed as heroic.
Okay, your reasoning for wanting Mike to take the radio is great and all, but the point is that there was no chance for any sort of discussion such as this. Kenny simply made his points for why he thought Clementine needed to be the one to do it, and then Troy walked in and the conversation ended.
It doesn't even matter really. Kenny was selfless in making sure Clementine didn't receive punishment. That can be seen as heroic, regardless of the fact that it was the right thing to do anyway.
Your wrong and the one armed man explained why, an half hour is to much probably 25 minutes too late
No the bite doesn't kill her, sure the whole game is about beeing bit or dying and becoming a walker she was srewed if clem didn't cut her arm off
From moral point of view, it was the right thing to do, considering that he is the one who put Clementine in that mess in the first place.
Yeah, he didnt have to do anything, but obviously Kenny did the thing he thought was right.
The difference is that i would look after people i care about, but i couldnt possibly have any feelings towards a baby. This may be a harsh example, but i would care about a baby as much as brain dead person. There is just nothing to care about them. No personality, no worldview, no thoughts, no communication... And putting aside all that, a baby would put others in unnecessary risk. If someone is putting me or my friends life at risk constantly, it doesnt matter if its an adult or a baby, i would leave them behind.
The situation was still his fault. You dont get extra points for saving someone from situation you put them in.
Yeah, there was no time to discuss it because Kenny disagreed with Clementine and Mike. But knowing how stubborn Kenny usually is, even if there was time, the radio would most likely go to Clementine.
Said one armed man took hours. A half hour was a exageration-Clem took a few minutes to get out the herd, and nothing more.
Even if we asumme you are rigth-which you aren´t-, is this enougth reason to forget that Clem cutting Sarita´s arm off ends up killing Sarita, thus is Clem´s fault?
There was plenty of reason to try. Bonnie and Mike went on about doing things for the good of the group, and sticking together. But the minute someone disagrees with them, the only option is to steal all the supplies and only car? That's just bullshit. People disagreed with Kenny all the time, but you don't see him stealing from his own group. It wasn't necessary to ensure their own survival, they were in a group. Yes, the group was having issues deciding on a course of action, but there was no threat of lives being taken. Maybe they wouldn't get their way, but it's really not that hard to continue to travel with a group until you come across another car, or at least a safer place to split up without condemning others to die.
You don't care if an unknown baby dies. There is a monumental difference between letting a grown person die and letting an infant die. One is capable of protecting themselves, the other is completely defenseless.
I believe a shootout still would have happened. Clem's group was not going to give up any supplies (again, if they still had them) that they needed. Maud and Arvo wanted to back down when they saw that Clem's group was armed as well. Understandably so, because if a shootout were to happen, deaths are inevitable.
Kenny made it clear that the car is going north, even if everyone else in the group disagreed. Kenny was planning to steal from the group. The minute someone is risking your life, you're not justified to do something to ensure your own survival?
Why would they go deeper to the shit they were avoiding? You know, cars get in bad condition after 2 years of no maintenance. They were lucky with the car Kenny got working.
There is no difference from my pov. Both baby or grown up idiot put others in danger. Are mentally handicapped people also justified to get others killed, because the condition is not their fault?
You dont know that. If Maud and Arvo just left, Vitali and Buricko wouldnt had a chance to win them.
He wasn't stealing from the group by saying where the car is going. He didn't say they couldn't come, and he didn't try to steal it in the middle of the night. He was being stubborn, but he wasn't going to leave anyone behind unless they refused to go with him. They weren't in a situation where their lives were being actively threatened, unless they are, I don't see how it's even remotely smart to betray your own group.
Because by waiting for a more opportune moment, they wouldn't be condemning a kid and an infant to death because of their selfishness. There very well might have been a working car, there were a lot of cars there.
Neither of us know. I'm just stating my opinion.
Others said they dont want to go north and he says the car goes north. Even if Clem says the Wellington is just a story, he says "tomorrow you'll see how wrong you are".
Yeah, and the point was that no one wanted to go with him to north. Clem was the only determinant one.
They were at north, where they could easily freeze to death. They had a car and one member of the group wanted to force everyone else to go deeper to north. Cant really see how thats not a threat to their lives.
You cant blame them for caring more about their own lives more than someone elses.
Again, that doesn't mean he's stealing the car by deciding it's destination. He didn't say anyone couldn't come. He meant he was going to prove to her that Wellington exists.
I'd argue that they didn't hear about Wellington because they were locked up in Howe's. I still stand by my point that because nobody helped him fix the car, that he had every right to decide where it goes.
I mean that the people in the group weren't threatening their lives. Going down south or back to Howe's is just as life threatening. Going anywhere is life threatening in the apocalypse. I believe that if you're in a group, that the smartest thing to do is stick with that group until a better time to leave arises.
I blame them for attempting to steal all the supplies and only car from a child and an infant. I've already stated that I don't care that they wanted to leave, it's the way they went about it.
Please, do explain how leaving 4 out of 5 man group behind, so you can go north, isnt stealing? To me, it sounded like he was planning to force Clementine to come with him. And later in the car with Jane and Kenny, they are going north, even if Clementine didnt want to go there.
And others had every right to ensure their survival by taking that car. People had heard about Wellington, they didnt know for a fact that it existed. Clem can even say that Wellington is just a story, showing that she doesnt know if it really exists. Even Kenny admits that Wellington might be bs, but he clearly wants believe it exists.
Yeah, its dangerous no matter where you go, but only in north its cold enough that you can freeze to death.
I know it was a shitty thing to do, but i cant blame them for it, because i would have done the same to anyone else, if my survival was at stake. They didnt even have any food for the baby, so AJ life wasnt put in any greater risk than it already was.
He was giving them a choice. Bonnie and Mike didn't give anyone a choice. Well, my Clem wanted to go to Wellington because Christa told her about it, so that's determinate.
No, because they're stealing from their own group, the group who has helped protect them. And because there are two children that will die if they succeeded in stealing the truck. Personally, I think it's a better idea to look for a place that other people have heard of instead of going down to Texas with no set destination, or back to Howe's, which realistically should still be infested in walkers.
If they know that it's cold enough to freeze to death, then the fact that they were going to leave people in a half built house in the middle of nowhere just makes them look even worse. That would mean that they were aware they were condemning them to death.
I respect your right to that opinion.
Only choice Kenny gave them was "die or steal this car", since they said they arent going north.
The moment Kenny said the car is going north, there were 3 groups. Mike, Bonnie and Arvo. Kenny & Clementine, Jane being alone, or Jane and Clementine, Kenny being alone. They werent stealing from their group, they were stealing for their new group.
Well i'd say thats really stupid and irrational decision, since you have no solid evidence to prove Wellington exists. But since you are religions, i suppose you dont always need solid evidence when you make your decisions.
It was either Mike, Bonnie, Arvo, (Clem, Jane) who were left behind, or Kenny, Jane and Clementine. No matter what Mike and Bonnie did, someone was being left behind.
Please refrain from insulting personal opinions and beliefs of other users. I'm not going to flag your whole post for this one statement since you otherwise have arguments in them, but please don't do this again. Not only is it disrespectful, but it is also an ad hominem which adds little to the argument you present.
Genius. Not "genious." If you're trying to insult my intelligence, spell check first.
I dont really consider it as an insult and if people see it as one, im sorry. I was simply implying how one can believe in something, without having solid evidence to back up its existance.