If Lee was still the playable protagonist...
So far, playing as Clementine the little girl has become quite the adventure. But, how would you feel things would turn out if Lee had not been killed and was still the playable adult protagonist? Do you think Season 2 would still be as good as it is now, more successful, or less successful?
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The events of the first episode would have changed. A lot. Imagine Lee in the shed. xD
I do think that they would have had their work become easier if continuing to write Lee as a main. Clementine is inherently tough to write because of:
A) Her age, and all that it means for decision making, relevance in group dynamics, physical prowess, etc.
B) She was an NPC that could be influenced by our actions and had certain distinctive characteristics. This is probably the biggest factor. People became attached to who Clem was in season 1, and if you look around, there are people who still fail to comfortably bond with her in a player-protagonist way, and don't get me started on all the damn arguments on which is the best Clem.
I remember thinking all of this back when S2's protagonist was first announced, yet I still was excited, because I had faith that Telltale could pull such an interesting idea for a PC well. Four months and two episodes in... I think that there have been some severely missed chances, some inconsistencies, some badly forced perspectives. For all of that, though, there have been some genuinely good moments, and the potential has not gone anywhere.
It was and is still a challenge that is interesting to see be tackled by the people at Telltale. I think it has turned out ok, but it is still perfectible, as everything in this world is.
but I think as for the story, it was a right decision. is good to be Clem now. to be Lee's legacy.
Would I have enjoyed playing S2 more? YES.
That's a pretty massive what if. I'm not sure what it would have done for the success of season two as others pointed out, Lee surviving would have been a pretty massive change for season one, and probably would have affected its success.
It's really hard to imagine how the story would have panned out. Playing as Lee again would negate the need for the sixteen-month time skip though, so that's a plus. But the time skip would also be more forgivable with Lee around since we could assume it was a continuation of his previously established relationship. Carver's "Not so different" crap would definitely make more sense for someone like Lee than Clem. But it's kinda hard to picture as a whole.
I'm not sure how much it actually would of helped in the long run though. A lot of S2 feels like weaker versions of things we did in Season 1. And playing as Lee may have actually made it worse, especially if Kenny was still around. They'd be going through pretty much the same things they did in season one.
If you were to still be playing as Lee though, there is at least the potential to grow he and Clem's relationship in unexpected ways. One thing I did actually like about 400 Days was Shel really can't control or even influence Becca all that much. Between the end of the world changing everyone's priorities and Becca being at the age where she feels she's got everything figured out, she is already acting out as her own person and ignoring the advice of the people around her.
It'd be interesting to see Clem go through that rebellious phase. There's actually a little bit of that in the second half of Ep3. Where after you teach her to use a gun she'll argue with Lee about her parents and say Lee can't tell her what to do if you say telling her parents on the walkie is a bad idea. And she has a major independence streak all through Around Every Corner. Where's she's constantly running off all the time. Building on moments like that in the second season with Lee would have been interesting.
Imagine getting into actual arguments with Clementine about decisions you have to make. In S1 she's not outright submissive, but she usually reaches an understanding with whatever Lee decides. Even dropping Ben which she's clearly not happy about. But what if in S2 she can actually get angry at Lee over certain things? Or she runs off on her own and screws something up, and then the whole group is mad at Lee and Clem because of what she did?
It seems like natural progression of the parenting angle. Your kid goes from your little angel to your not so little hellion, and if you frame Clem's actions against the terrible nature of the world she's in, it can add a layer of "nature vs. nurture", making you wonder what growing up in the apocalypse is going to do to an impressionable young mind like hers.
I honestly think I wouldn´t have enjoyed it as much. As much as I love Lee, I love Clem much more.
I have moved on from Lee's death (Took me a year and some months). His story ended perfectly.
But if he was still the protagonist on Season 2, I think it would have been interesting to see if Lee becomes much more hardened, ruthless and losing his grip on his humanity, but still just as caring and protective to his loved ones. I think the theme of family would be much stronger as Lee and Clem has gotten much closer. How would Lee interact with the Cabin group? I would like to see how the reunion between Lee and Kenny would be?
There are a lot of interesting potentials, but still, I like Season 2 for what Telltale gave us.
It would be so awesome. If Lee had Kenny's S2 determinant fate in S1... I honestly wanted to play as Lee again. Playing as Clementine is cool but... you get the idea. If Lee was in S2, our choices from S1 would've had more impact on the story.
It probably would have been better if he hadnt died and continued if they were gonna do a few more seasons, I miss clem as a character rather than the robot we control now, plus playing as a kid in this game just dosnt work half the time
season two has been successful as fuck, so who cares
Imagine the stay at Wellington ending with Lee instead of Kenny! I think it would've been a lot more emotional for Clem and the player to say goodbye to Lee this way, but it would be a different goodbye than the one we had at the end of season 1, this time it would be bittersweet.
But now that I think about it, would Lee ask Clem to stay in Wellington despite the fact that we don't know a thing about this community ? Or would he let her stay with him because he cares about her too much ?
I DON'T CARE IF ITS LEE , I ONLY NEED A PLAYBLE ADULT
if you're an adult, just play with yourself
[Insert Lenny Face here]
Actually thinking about it a little longer, all though it's hard to picture Season 2 in it's entirety working with Lee, there are some key scenes that I can envision working much better with him and Clem than just Clem. Things like killing Carver. With Lee he could just be the one holding the crowbar and instead watching or not it's whenever or not you're gonna bash his head in. From a gameplay perspective it could set-up like a far more brutal version of Andy St. John. And on top of that you have Clementine's reaction, which could vary depending on your previous interactions with her. You can even include the possibility of Clem wanting to watch Lee do it, like we already have. Except in this instance, you wouldn't directly decide for Clem, your previous actions have affected her behavior, or Carver's even if it's possible for Lee to get his eye smashed in.
And expanding on the idea of Clementine being more rebellious towards Lee if he was in season two with her, you could really make something out Sarah's deaths in episode four. Since you wouldn't control Clementine anymore and there'd be no need for her to do every little thing the story could be crafted to let her get very close with Sarah, to the point where she runs off after her in the herd scene instead of Luke. Lee's spends the beginning of Amid the Ruins separated from Clem before finding her with Sarah in the trailer park, trying to talk Sarah back to her senses. And your choice as Lee is either let Clem keep trying while zombies are knocking at the door, or grab Clem and force her to leave Sarah. Not unlike pulling Lilly off Larry in the meat locker.
And if Sarah does come along, you wind up in a similar place where Clem will tell you try and save her from under the deck. And you can try, but it's impossible, and however she dies Clem gets really upset, lashes out at Lee, possibly even blame him for Sarah's death, then later becomes depressed and you have to talk her through the grieving process, possibly even relate some of the previous tragedies you've suffered throughout the series and help the girl who so often inspires hope in others to find hope again herself.
personally the game could have been better.. Lee adult atitude was always awesome and i think of him like Rick from the TV Show..
and they could have maded the game with both playable.. but yeah , it would have been a totally different story
Season 1 may not have gotten the success it had gotten without Lee's death, but nevertheless I wish they had kept him as the playable character. I found him a very good role for the story. But yeah, if they wanted the success they got, they might have had to kill Clem off or something in s1 ep5.
Honestly, I think it many ways it would've been better.
I liked playing as Lee.
He was strong, intelligent, educated, resourceful, diplomatic, and a total badass in a fight.
I love your idea.
It's to bad the writers killed Lee off.
Imagine though if Clem died/got bit instead of Lee, so Clem's death replaces Lee's one.
Omid probably wouldn't have died, cabin group probably wouldn't have accepted him.
Words of wisdom. ^.^
I would have liked playing Lee in season 2, but that's just me.
Wouldn't have accepted whom?
Lee, or Omid?
And why do you say that?
Lee was a good guy.
( I know My Lee was.)
And Omid was as well.
Though he did seem to be a bit co-dependant on Crista, he did however have good heart.
Of course, Christa may have been over-protective of Omid, and Omid might have been able to handle himself fine.
For a little squirt that is, Lol!
I hope we get to play as an adult character in Season 3.
same here
I would call bullshit.
What would you want your character to be?
Ideally speaking.
Here's mine.
Character Name: AL.
Place of birth: Houston Texas.
Height: 6'4ft.
Weight:225lbs.
Race: White.
Pre-Apocalypse Occupation: Truck driver.
Pre Apocalypse history: Was a truck driving, chain-smoking, beer-guzzling, bar-brawling, fowl-mouthed son of a bitch.
Divorced with two boys. Cares about his two sons. He refers to his ex-wife as: "The bitch from hell."
hmm... i dont know .. Definitely a male character..
if it was me making the character..
Name: Josh
Birth : somewhere between the places of Season 1 or 2
Race White
Pre-Apocalypse : US Army or Marine .. his history could be .. After losing both wife and daughter , he seeks revenge to who kill them , not caring on who appears in the middle of his journey . He only cares about his 3-old son that survived and promised to his past wife that he would do whatever he could to protect him... his manners could be like Lee/Kenny
Another thought, if you were playing as Lee, it could be Clementine instead of Sarah that Carver wants punished and you have to choose between doing it yourself or letting Troy do it. That could have made the player's hatred of Carver a lot more personal.
Really, all of In Harm's Way would have worked better with a different character. Carver's "not so different" bullshit is just ridiculous when aimed at Clementine. He really should have been trying to recruit Clem, turn her against the Cabin group. After all, not like she's known them all that long, and not like her first meeting with them went over all that well. Carver should have been making the case that Clem would be both safer and better appreciated at Howe's, instead of randomly tormenting, torturing and killing people around her.
Another thing about In Harm's Way, and this has nothing to do with the topic, but there was major big missed opportunity to actually establish Wellington's existence more clearly. Have one of Howe's prisoners claims they're from Wellington and talks about how much different it is from Howe's. Carver could even be planning to scout for Wellington for a possible future takeover. That would raise the stakes for defeating Carver and help solidify some kind of end goal for Season 2, which was desperately needed.
I would be a lot happier, lee was my Favorite character in TWDG. I don't really care what happens to Clementine, and playing her was OK i guess, but if things don't change the game is going downhill fast. Its going to be as bad as the TV show. They should have never killed Lee off, to kill him for a "more." emotional impact is the most illogical reasoning; If that was the reasoning then why not kill off Clementine in S2. Why didn't they just let her die when Arvo shot her, it would of caused people go nuts and cry their little eyes out.