How I would have dealt with Kenny in Season 2
All right, I suppose I should start off by saying that I like all of the characters in Season 2. I don't hold anything against any of them, so hopefully that will remove any bias from my speculation. With that said, on to my point.
I feel like Kenny was overplayed in this season. His story arc overshadowed the other characters, and hindered the development of the new additions to the season. We had a new, full character cast with the Cabin group, and that was interesting. New dynamics, such as the bonds between Uncle Pete and Nick, Carlos and Sarah, Rebecca and Alvin, and Luke as their unofficial leader. They each had strengths and weaknesses, and it was up to us to learn them. But in Episode 2, Kenny made his return into the story. This, alone, was not the problem. Sure, say he got "Lucky", have him talk to Clementine about Lee and reminisce about the past. It was unrealistic, but you could easily tell that they were going to do something like that with how both of his endings are very unclear, either the alley or the building room, we never see what happens to him.
I thought everything involving Kenny was fine, up until Episode 4. In Amid the Ruins, and No Going Back, Kenny repeats his old story arc from Season 1. He loses his family, then starts breaking apart, and you don't know if he's going to keep it together. It was already done, and it felt like such a complete waste, considering we had a full team of interesting characters at the beginning of the season, and the majority of them were killed off, and all the story seemed to care about was the growing conflict of Kenny and Jane. Don't get me wrong, finales need buildup, but the way it was handled was cheap, I felt. So, I took a look back at the season, and I thought about how it could have been different.
Obviously, there are a lot of things, but the one that stood out most for me was in Episode 3, In Harm's Way, Kenny took a fierce beating from Carver. So much so that we was knocked unconscious and had to get medical attention from Carlos. Remember the part where Carlos said that he did everything he could, but that there was a possibility of brain damage? What I want to bring up is what Luke began to argue for, after this.
"If y'all are serious about leaving tonight...then we're gonna have start talking about maybe...leaving some folks behind."
Everything about the scene became tense after that. It became very apparent that we were going to have to leave people behind, at the very least, Kenny. And I think that this should have been the way things played out. Imagine if Kenny did not wake up when he did, and the group was forced to leave without him. Imagine the conflict of either trying to convince Sarita to come with the group and leave him or let her stay behind to be with him. It doesn't even drastically change the story line, because we have someone that will fill the role. Who you ask?
This guy.
Carlos would have been the perfect character for the rest of the season. And it would have felt so much stronger if he was used instead. His death did very little for any of the group, all it did was throw shock in our face, and send Sarah into panic. And honestly, Sarah isn't even able to grow as a character from it, because she dies later anyways. So think about this for a moment. Instead of Carlos getting shot and killed, he gets separated from Sarah in the herd. Without her dad, Sarah freaks out, and lets out a call for him. She attracts the attention of a walker, and she gets bit instead of Sarita. Clementine is the first on the scene, hatchet in hand. Make your choice.
Either way, we know how it ends. Carlos is either faced with Clementine cutting off his daughter's arm and leading to her getting devoured in the herd, or he is faced with the most difficult decision that could only exist in the Zombie Apocalypse. And we would have felt so much more, because we had developed a bond with Sarah that we hadn't with Sarita. Her death would have been something more tragic, in my opinion, better than either of the detriment deaths she received later on. From that point on, Carlos could go through with all the antics that Kenny did.
- Need someone to deliver the baby? Carlos is a doctor.
- Need someone to argue with Luke? Carlos was seen to disagree with him on many occasions.
- Need someone to have a breakdown after the loss of his loved one? Carlos would have been perfect after losing Sarah, because we would have no idea what to expect. Kenny was too predictable, because the same thing had happened in season 1.
- Need someone to develop a weird attachment to the baby? Why not Carlos after he just lost his daughter?
Carlos had all the signs of being a real tough guy, and dangerous even. He spit into Carver's face, screamed for someone to shoot Carver when he was being held hostage, tried to get Clementine to untie him while they were all under gunpoint even. Back in Episode 1, Luke even hinted at the same thing, when he said "That's why he's not going to do anything crazy, or...not nice." when speaking of Carlos. We could have dealt with such a different story arc, one where we either try to comfort Carlos or drag on him for sheltering Sarah so much. Even Jane versus Kenny could even be turned into a Jane versus Carlos fight. Carlos had every reason to be just as defensive about the baby, and Jane would have had the motivation to distrust his mental state.
So, overall, the general thought I had that I feel would have improved the season would have been to use the new characters that Telltale introduced to us, and not rely on using the same character, putting them through the same scenario as before. I realize its not a perfect fit, and might not have had the same emotional pull that they went for with the Wellington ending's (Which, in my opinion, seemed to be the only truly emotional involved ending.) But I think it would have made the two episodes better overall. Maybe even include an option to look for Kenny if you go back to Howe's with Jane, and find some sort of ominous note, but no Kenny or Sarita. Maybe his hat? They could have even brought him back for a third season if they really wanted to, maybe with a different role to play. Maybe an antagonist? Who knows. But I still think a mistake was made when they re-used his story for this season, and I think it would have worked better with Carlos.
What are your thoughts? Anyone agree with me? Anyone disagree? I'm fairly new, so just please be nice. Please? Thank you. =]
Comments
I would have liked to see what the other characters could do in the story if Kenny hadn't been so prominent. The Carlos scenario might have been good.
Huh....never actually thought of it that way....it would be interesting to have Carlos to replace Kenny.....atleast Kenny wont have the determinant curse...I like your ideas
Hard to imagine Telltale going out of their way to bring Kenny back just to put him in a coma after one episode, but I agree that divvying up more screentime to Carlos and the rest of the cabin group would have been interesting.
I don't think I'd be happy with fridging Sarah in that way though. Having her die in the horde would have had more of an impact on me than it did with Sarita, but I still think giving her a character arc of her own would be better than killing her off just to retell Kenny's season 1 story through her father.
Well, just being frank about it, were you happy with either of the other deaths she received in Amid The Ruins? I feel such that if they decided that she should have died in the story, the least they could do would be make it have a big impact on the group. The only scene where we get something like that is if you decide to leave her behind, and Jane begins to impart on her views that anyone who is a liability to your survival must be let go. (Which she still tells you about, even if you ignore her and save Sarah.)
She probably could have been many different parts to the story, but I feel like her getting bit in Episode 3 would have been much tougher on the player, because a lot of people actually liked Sarah. When Sarita died, it was little more than "Uh oh, Kenny's gonna freak out."
Sarah could have been "No, Sarah, no...uh oh, what is Carlos going to do?"
You make a good point about Carlos.
I like Kenny and am glad he was in the season, but if he never had been and Carlos had, had his role I might have felt the season was more complete on its own. A member of the cabin group could survive all the way to the end like this and maybe he wouldn't have honked as much of the attention..
Kenny's arc would have been fine for me if at the end the writers would have had the guts to have Kenny properly lose it at the end, he could have even survived and just been a threat to Clementine It would have made this season worth something to the character and given all that psycho development a brutal conclusion
Kenny just should've flat-out been left on the cutting room floor.
All his interactions felt contrived and forced to the point where the game flat out tries and trick the players to liking him. This is fine for the people who like his character, but a lot of people don't. This also meant that the final conflict was poorly handled and implemented, like there were five different people written an ending each.
I guess killing Jane was as far as the writers were willing to go with Kenny's instability. After that he seems to be cured, which doesn't really make too much sense.
Great post, I like your ideas.
I felt the same way about Jane, just because it seemed like they just went for the "Mysterious Post-Apocalyptic Badass with a troubled past." And because I'm a role-player, I've seen a lot of characters like that. Her sudden attraction to Clementine felt forced to me, but it probably had to be done because she was the Player Character. It would have been more believable if we got to know her over the course of a few episodes, but Amid The Ruins quickly tries to portray Jane as her older sister. It was just too fast, and felt forced to me because of it. Like, with Luke, we gradually start to build that relationship, with little scenes such as the dinner at the cabin, and the adventure at the bridge.
But I agree that many parts of this season were, "Well I hope you like Kenny, because here's more Kenny!" Which is something I did have a problem with. The writers picked favorites, and I think they should keep an even light on everyone, and let the players pick their favorite.
I agree 100%. The dude that wrote Ep. 3, Pierre Shorette is a complete clown and never even attempted to continue Nick Breckon's ideas in Ep. 1 and 2. Instead we got, The Tragedy of Kenny V. 2.0. It's really possible Carlos was meant to do all the things Kenny did in Ep 4 and 5. I blame the horde of Kenny fanatics. The whole KENNY CONFIRMED FOR SEASON 2 thing caused the writer to change Kenny's ending and make it more unclear to leave the door open for his return. He was meant to die in that alley/room. It was his final act of redemption. Sacrificing himself for someone else. Telltale being a smaller company wants to please fans back then, so they brought Kenny back.
Honestly, in my opinion the only problem with Kenny's development in Season2 was Sarita. Her character literally had no other purpose, than repeating Kenny's Season 1 character arc.
Him returning in Episode 2 was awesome and very well done. I also liked him slowly but surely turning into a new Carver, but unlike Carver he was still a good man that tried to protect the people he cared about. (Clem, AJ)
For the most parts I agree, but here are some things I don't about.:
Telltale would get a pissed off fanbase and be like "wow, they bring Kenny back then we see him missing in one episode. I'm so done with this season blah blah blah." If they were going to lose Kenny in ep.3, it would be better if he was just killed (reminder, I love Kenny and am with him in my canon ending, so its not a wish that he gets killed)
Same thing applies with Sarah. She would be even have less of an importance in Amid the Ruins than she was originally if she replaced Sarita in that situation. They would have to handled her very differently as well, therefore then making Carlos not getting attached to AJ.
Also, I'm not sure how the different endings would have worked out. I see Jane and Carlos not getting along, but not as bad as Jane and Kenny. They would probably would have to do just one ending for everyone.
Just some thoughts I had about this, but for the most part you brought up some good points.
I also agree with a lot of what you say but have issues with a few thing's: one is that for the most part twd does thing's that the normal viewer might not expect. Its the same reason of why I like this game and game of thrones so much, that any charachter can die and I think that was what Carlos' death dealt with, that and it seemed to be a tip of the hat to the comic book where a charachter freaks out while trying to move through a zombie horde. Although Sarah would have died too if they wanted to copy the scene exactly. Now about replacing Carlos with kenny, while I think it would have been best to have it be the cause of a choice you make that one lives and one dies, to me Carlos was not as interesting to have around as Kenny like you say they can replace the other so ultimately it would be pretty much the same. I do think they could have made it so that through the right choices you can calm Kenny down at the end of the episode but I guess you need a big confrontation for the finale. My problem with having to choose Carlos vs Jane at the end is that for most people it wouldn't have even been a choice unless they wanted to cram even more charachter development in episode 4 which already had a decent amount of. So in the end telltale chose a known factor to make the chioce at the end a little tougher imo.
Jane was a contrivance to pull in some of the less optimistic players. She was a prop to oppose Kenny, but I didn't hate her character nearly as much as I did with "Mr.-Re-hash-angry-perpetually-tormented-assface-Kenny."
That's the thing though, there are countless ways that the conclusion for Sarah would have been more satisfying than how it was handled in Amid the Ruins. But if the case really was that she had died like Sarita, I'd still be disappointed that she was abruptly axed off for another short-lived bout of shock value.
I approve of this.
In general, I definitely wanted to see more character development from Carlos.
What's the "KENNY CONFIRMED FOR SEASON 2" you speak of? I wasn't really one to use the forums until recently.
Also, as in OP, I didn't have as much of a problem with his return as his dominating character roles in the rest of the season. Everyone should have had their time in the spotlight. Some kind of closure at least. Hopefully in season 3, when characters die, there will either be closure to their story or it will be treated like a tragedy. I guess the excuse behind that is that it's the zombie apocalypse, so everyone is familiar with death, but it feels disconnected.
But getting a bit off topic. I like to see fleshed out characters everywhere. Especially my villains. It's just a kind of peeve of mine
The dynamic of him turning into Carver was a kind of interesting line on the story. But it would have been better if Kenny was a character introduced in season 2. We had already see him like this, and held it together and sacrificed himself in the end. Same as what he tries to do in Season 2.
I do agree Sarita was a plot point. The thing with plot points is you're supposed to be able to feel a part of what they are feeling as well. Like in Season 1, when Kenny loses Katjaa and Duck. Both were characters we got to interact with more than Sarita, sadly. We had more story with them as well. When they both bit it, you felt a part of his pain. (Unless you remove yourself from the narrative and laughed at him, I've been told some people didn't care.)
There are some people who are very...passionate about Kenny. I believe back when Season 1 ended, there was a lot of upset caused by Kenny's death. Sort of like a "If Daryl dies, we riot" situation here I think. People began spamming this gif all over the place and telltale wrote Kenny back into Season 2.
If you ask me, I don't think a great series is defined by giving fans what they want. Just look at Game of Thrones! Mr. George R.R. Martin has killed off so many characters and it's still a thriving series! A great series is defined by how compelling relationships between characters are and how they interact and Kenny just got in the way.
I wouldn't have gone as far as killing Kenny outright, but I might have separated him from the group for a good chunk of time in episode 4, just to give the new cast some breathing room.
Well, I think a general weakness in the Walking dead games is that a lot of characters seem to be created just for the purpose of killing them off. This makes the game feel like Final Destination, where the audience is supposed to get a thrill when a character dies (not that I'm actually getting any thrill when this happens in the game).
At the same time, the writers can't have too many characters, as game time is limited. So, the temporary created-to-be-quickly-killed characters seem to be reducing the number of more lasting characters. It's the more lasting characters that get to develop into three-dimensional characters to whom we can get emotionally attached.
As for Kenny, I really liked him as a character. Finding him at the lodge gave me an emotional high. The Wellington ending (particularly the one where Clementine refuses to part with Kenny) was epic, and IMO even surpassed Lee's death in Season 1 in terms of being memorable. There were several other very moving scenes with Kenny, like where they talk about the past, when he gets beaten almost to death for her or where he surrenders to prevent her from being harmed.
However, I don't think it was at all believable for him to come back, since we saw him in Season 1 in a situation in which he couldn't have survived. I think TellTale only brought him back because the supporting characters were weak. So, I don't think Kenny's appearance made the rest undeveloped - I believe it's because they were weak that he was brought back. And why were the rest not able to carry the story? Perhaps it's because they've not had enough screentime - a chicken and egg situation. Kenny had the huge advantage of being with us and Clementine nearly from the beginning of Season 1. It would take time for Carlos to develop that bond with Clementine (that's not to say that the writers attempted to create any bond between them).
You make some excellent points on on the potential of Carlos's character. I found both him and Sarah to be very likable and I wish they weren't killed off. I think screentime was wasted on Jane, a dull and unrealistic character with no emotions. Unless she was supposed to be an engineered plastic robot, she totally failed as a character, IMO.
I have to disagree with you on some points here:
The fact that Kenny wasn't introduced in this Season, but in the last one was in fact alot better. Kenny's reunion with Clem in episode2 was well done and it was one of the most emotional moments in the entire series. But as i already said, his story was repetitive and i didn't like that. Because of this, i believe Sarita shouldn't have been in Season2 at all. Her only purpose was to make Kenny lose a person he loves, yet another time. There were no interactions with her character and honestly, i didn't care about her dieing.
Kenny's re-introduction in episode2 was well written and i also liked his character development in episode3. (Well, it wasn't that much development...but he was the one that acted reckless and pushed the group to escape the prison/mouthed of to Carver. We needed someone like him in this story). For me, episode4 is were his story get's repetitive and weak. Kenny's role in Episode5 (slowly but surely turning into a " new Carver ") could have already started in episode4.
About Kenny's different endings. I don't like the fact that Telltale decided to make him a determinated character. It's realy cheap and unsatisfying to make a character that has been part of the story since Season1, determinated. He will be killed off very early in the next Season and his role in this Season3 will be even more dissapointing.
There is no point about discussing if Kenny was meant to be in Season 2. Telltale always planned for him to return.
What we should discuss about, is how Telltale could have delivered his story differently.
Are you referring to both versions of Kenny's "death" in NO TIME LEFT? Because I've watched those more times than I care to count, and Kenny's survival (while slim) was still feasible in both scenarios.
Wasnt there audio files or something about Kenny yelling before dying, in season 1?
I would have Kenny not waking up from his bashing by Carver in time for the group to leave. They would be forced to leave him behind and it leaves his status unknown, leaving room for the remaining characters to grow and Kenny "dying" for a noble cause once again.
Okay, perhaps I was mistaken.
Yes there was Jane. But Telltale decided to cut it out of the actual game because they wanted to make his " supposed " death more mysterious.
Funny how Kenny is so easy to hate, but then he gets a chance to do something heroic and all bad things he has done are wiped away.
Although I personally loved Kenny in both seasons, I agree that Carlos should have gotten a bigger role. I was definitely a bit scared of him after we met, he seemed to have a huge dark side to his personality. I kept thinking he would turn into the cabin group's Kenny but he just ended up dying.