Father = Carlos. And Reggie doesn't really threat their lives. He can also just drive him away rather than murder him before two kis.
As foe Alvin, it makes me laugh that Carver seems to have no idea why Rebecca hates him.
Did Kenny have a daughter hiding somewhere?
He was talking about Carlos and Sarah. C:
Slapping her was more of a punishment for Carlos, really. Carver wanted to show him he can make Sarah suffer using a person she loves.
Father = Carlos. And Reggie doesn't really threat their lives. He can also just drive him away rather than murder him before two kis.
As foe Alvin, it makes me laugh that Carver seems to have no idea why Rebecca hates him.
And Reggie doesn't really threat their lives. He can also just drive him away rather than murder him before two kis.
Thats why i said unnecessary murder. Better just banishing people than killing them.
Well then youy should shut up about Kenny because he did more good things than Carver did, Carver killed more innocent people in one episode then Kenny did in a whole season
I think has been a friend of Rebecca And Alvin when the zombie apocalypse started Carver it might kill him 4.Rebecca and Alvin,Carlos and Sarah,Pete and Nick it might get caugh by Carver and then they meet luke
1.Christa it might get shot on the trailer from no going... but at comic con has been another trailer and in that scene has been two shoots … morethat means Christa is dead ...
2.Carver for sure and a herd of walker's
3.I think has been a friend of Rebecca And Alvin when the zombie apocalypse started Carver it might kill him
4.Rebecca and Alvin,Carlos and Sarah,Pete and Nick it might get caugh by Carver and then they meet luke
I'm gonna continue on fleshing out Carver's character here.
Carver and Rebecca
The fault lies on both sides.
so stop with this "Carver raped Rebecca bullshit."
It's obvious Rebecca doesn't want to talk about Carver in front of the group (Alvin) and disposes Clementine with vague answers when she asks about him. We know she had a feeling the baby was Carver's, but she was afraid to tell Alvin the truth (bathroom and lodge scenes), because she felt guilty about that. What we also know that she didn't want her husband to find out - therefore continue on lying after the birth.
Bill, please!
If you haven't noticed yet, Rebecca was the only one from Cabin Group who keeps calling Carver "Bill". Couldn't find any singe exception. Why? You tell me. In my opinion, people using names to expose some feelings to each other or to emphasize the existence of some kind of relationship.
Carver was some sort of engineer before the apocalipse (as confirmed by Bonnie), meaning he was the one who directed the management of energy in Howe's Hardware. We know all devices were controlled from Carver's office, and Rebecca worked there, making annoucements for the community.
My guts tell me that their "relationship" started this way.
Jeez guys, can we do ONE thread without the Kenny shit? By the way, I agree with you on Howe's... which I think is a first here. Howe's had supplies which almost nowhere had, it seemed relatively safe from the main world threat. It seemed like a great place. Yes, Carver was dangerous and unhinged but not as dangerous as the horde on the outside. And he seemed like he wasn't hugely popular so he might have ended up dead anyway, leaving Howe's as a great location to be.
Actually, in most of episode 4 I was wondering why not one person suggested they go back there.
And all the bodies by the river, the whole group emmediatly thought "Carver" who inprisoned people and killed a man because of some berries... but its zykelator again, if Kenny did those things the whole forum had known becasue you wouldn't shut up about it ... am i wrong?
The whole location looked like it wouyldn't hold and in janes ending the doors were open and dead walkers were inside so i guess they had to go to a cold place were walkers were slow and would not last
they never knew how many weapons they had left there so what if they came back and 1-2 days later the "swarm"returned and their firepower was slim to none.. it would fall...
Remember the walkers that came through the windows ? how can you fix an entire fort with just 5 people and also keep an eye out and help your friends if they were attacked
Jeez guys, can we do ONE thread without the Kenny shit? By the way, I agree with you on Howe's... which I think is a first here. Howe's had … moresupplies which almost nowhere had, it seemed relatively safe from the main world threat. It seemed like a great place. Yes, Carver was dangerous and unhinged but not as dangerous as the horde on the outside. And he seemed like he wasn't hugely popular so he might have ended up dead anyway, leaving Howe's as a great location to be.
Actually, in most of episode 4 I was wondering why not one person suggested they go back there.
That's a lot of 'what ifs'. Nowhere is safe so it's about taking a chance on something and one thing we know they didn't have was supplies and the one place we knew for certain had plenty was Howe's. And the herd would have no interest in their food and likely would have passed through, even if a bunch got caught up there and remained.
So at the very least, it was worth returning to see what state was in. If it couldn't be fixed up, they'd still have access to a ton of supplies.
The whole location looked like it wouyldn't hold and in janes ending the doors were open and dead walkers were inside so i guess they had to… more go to a cold place were walkers were slow and would not last
they never knew how many weapons they had left there so what if they came back and 1-2 days later the "swarm"returned and their firepower was slim to none.. it would fall...
Remember the walkers that came through the windows ? how can you fix an entire fort with just 5 people and also keep an eye out and help your friends if they were attacked
That's a lot of 'what ifs'. Nowhere is safe so it's about taking a chance on something and one thing we know they didn't have was supplies a… morend the one place we knew for certain had plenty was Howe's. And the herd would have no interest in their food and likely would have passed through, even if a bunch got caught up there and remained.
So at the very least, it was worth returning to see what state was in. If it couldn't be fixed up, they'd still have access to a ton of supplies.
Well they didn't know if the supplies were still there with Howes deserted , they were lucky.
But they were lucky in most of the endings so
And , a lot of what ifs ?
My count stops at 1
I'm gonna continue on fleshing out Carver's character here.
Carver and Rebecca
The fault lies on both sides.
* so stop with this … more"Carver raped Rebecca bullshit."
It's obvious Rebecca doesn't want to talk about Carver in front of the group (Alvin) and disposes Clementine with vague answers when she asks about him. We know she had a feeling the baby was Carver's, but she was afraid to tell Alvin the truth (bathroom and lodge scenes), because she felt guilty about that. What we also know that she didn't want her husband to find out - therefore continue on lying after the birth.
Bill, please!
* If you haven't noticed yet, Rebecca was the only one from Cabin Group who keeps calling Carver "Bill". Couldn't find any singe exception. Why? You tell me. In my opinion, people using names to expose some feelings to each other or to emphasize the existence of some kind of relationship.
* At the end, listen to Carver's un… [view original content]
I actually agree about George's death playing a role in making Carver become more unstable and personally invested in revenge. After his murder of Reggie, he talks about how it's important to have people who lighten the atmosphere because it's all too easy to 'sink into depression'. I feel that the chaos following Rebecca's initial escape, along with the loss of someone who might very well have been an emotional crutch or moral chain for him, made him more willing to murder strangers. I'd also add that Luke and Carlos (if I recall) both refer to Carver as 'Bill', and I'm pretty sure they aren't having affairs with him.
It's not hard to see how he'd murder the bandits. Perhaps they tried to rob his group and ended up slaughtered. Perhaps he simply didn't consider them valuable enough to bring back (the cabin group was already enough to handle - 10+ people would have been harder). Maybe he just doesn't like bandits for endangering his community, seeing as two former members of his group immediately leap to the conclusion that he murdered them.
What I disagree with is the idea that Carver was once a good guy. On the contrary, I suspect he always was a latent sociopath - his behavior fits the check-list perfectly, the cabin group all had valid reasons for hating him, and him being an 'engineer' could support the interpretation that he was given to see people as tools. I believe that he worked as a manager at Howe's Hardware when the apocalypse hit, and became more strict with the rules as the community expanded - no partying, no smoking/drinking, no sex (Luke apparently hadn't had any for two years), no doing anything that made you vulnerable to attack.
At the same time, as he became more enamored with the power he had as the leader and convinced himself that everything he did was for the good of the community, he became a hypocrite. He presumably admired the 'strength' of Rebecca enough to make her his secretary, and abused his entitlement as leader ("I need this because I'm overstressed/think about the consequences if you refuse") to coerce her into an affair that she hated enough to enjoy seeing his face beaten in. The problem arose when she began to show signs of her pregnancy and Carver immediately claimed ownership of the child, ignoring her own loyalty to her husband.
None of us know the real circumstances or reasons behind Alvin's killing of George, but Carver interpreted it to be a personal attack. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. Alvin is convinced that Rebecca has his child, so I doubt he'd believe she had an affair with Carver. Perhaps Carver was projecting, believing that Alvin was as vengeful a person as he was and would have murdered George to spite his 'rival'.
Carver was always a shitty person. It's just that, after getting pissed off over Rebecca leaving, he became an unstable mess and lost the trust of his followers. I doubt he'd have murdered Reggie and Walter, or beaten Kenny into a coma, had he not been stressed by the fallout of Rebecca's initial escape.
I'd also add that Luke and Carlos (if I recall) both refer to Carver as 'Bill', and I'm pretty sure they aren't having affairs with him.
I didn't say all of them were having affairs (I checked the Season again and I'm pretty sure Rebecca was the only one calling him "Bill"; I might be wrong though) I was just pointing out the existence of some kind of relationship (subconscious maybe). Rebecca could feel guilty, or think she can solve the problem or appease both sides at least. Hope you can understand what I'm trying to explain, English isn't my first language.
About murders down by the river, I don't know the truth, I can only suspect what really happened - and that's the reason I posted this discussion. All ideas are good and I'd love to see more of them, but guess people are too busy talking about Jane and Kenny that they cant come up with their own (glad you did Bokor).
What I disagree with is the idea that Carver was once a good guy.
Where did I say that? He was written to be bad, there were just moments when he was more gray than black, I pointed it out many times before.
no sex
If that's true, Carver was indeed a hypocrite.
The problem arose when she began to show signs of her pregnancy and Carver immediately claimed ownership of the child, ignoring her own loyalty to her husband.
I actually agree about George's death playing a role in making Carver become more unstable and personally invested in revenge. After his mu… morerder of Reggie, he talks about how it's important to have people who lighten the atmosphere because it's all too easy to 'sink into depression'. I feel that the chaos following Rebecca's initial escape, along with the loss of someone who might very well have been an emotional crutch or moral chain for him, made him more willing to murder strangers. I'd also add that Luke and Carlos (if I recall) both refer to Carver as 'Bill', and I'm pretty sure they aren't having affairs with him.
It's not hard to see how he'd murder the bandits. Perhaps they tried to rob his group and ended up slaughtered. Perhaps he simply didn't consider them valuable enough to bring back (the cabin group was already enough to handle - 10+ people would have been harder). Maybe he just doesn't like bandits for endangering his … [view original content]
I think my 'disagreement' about Carver's nature was more with Telltale's writers than with you. Carver in Episodes 2 and 3 is a classic sociopath - he's superficially charming, lies with no remorse or hesitation, has no hesitation to hurt people if it accomplishes a goal - and rightfully treated as such. However, him being juxtaposed with Kenny seems to be an attempt to make us believe that he'd once been as friendly and caring as Kenny once was, even though Kenny at his most violent and abusive is still not cold-blooded.
I'd also add that Luke and Carlos (if I recall) both refer to Carver as 'Bill', and I'm pretty sure they aren't having affairs with him.
… more
I didn't say all of them were having affairs (I checked the Season again and I'm pretty sure Rebecca was the only one calling him "Bill"; I might be wrong though) I was just pointing out the existence of some kind of relationship (subconscious maybe). Rebecca could feel guilty, or think she can solve the problem or appease both sides at least. Hope you can understand what I'm trying to explain, English isn't my first language.
About murders down by the river, I don't know the truth, I can only suspect what really happened - and that's the reason I posted this discussion. All ideas are good and I'd love to see more of them, but guess people are too busy talking about Jane and Kenny that they cant come up with their own (glad you did Bokor).
What I disagree with is the idea that Carver was onc… [view original content]
They're different people, but I say the allusion is justified. Carver, Kenny, Rick and the Governor all start out somewhat idealistic and work to do good, but they all break at some point, making too many sacrifices and trading bits of their humanity to survive. In the end, everyone becomes a unique strand of crazy/evil, whether that's Rick beating a man until his arm is shattered and the guy doesn't have a face, Carver becoming a manipulative and sadistic chessmaster, or Jane lying about a baby being dead so she has an excuse to murder someone she wants to believe is crazy. They're not going to make the same choices - Kenny will never be the cold sociopath Carver was - but the moral is the same. In the end, good people will do anything.
I think my 'disagreement' about Carver's nature was more with Telltale's writers than with you. Carver in Episodes 2 and 3 is a classic soc… moreiopath - he's superficially charming, lies with no remorse or hesitation, has no hesitation to hurt people if it accomplishes a goal - and rightfully treated as such. However, him being juxtaposed with Kenny seems to be an attempt to make us believe that he'd once been as friendly and caring as Kenny once was, even though Kenny at his most violent and abusive is still not cold-blooded.
They're different people, but I say the allusion is justified. Carver, Kenny, Rick and the Governor all start out somewhat idealistic and wo… morerk to do good, but they all break at some point, making too many sacrifices and trading bits of their humanity to survive. In the end, everyone becomes a unique strand of crazy/evil, whether that's Rick beating a man until his arm is shattered and the guy doesn't have a face, Carver becoming a manipulative and sadistic chessmaster, or Jane lying about a baby being dead so she has an excuse to murder someone she wants to believe is crazy. They're not going to make the same choices - Kenny will never be the cold sociopath Carver was - but the moral is the same. In the end, good people will do anything.
I'm gonna continue on fleshing out Carver's character here.
Carver and Rebecca
The fault lies on both sides.
* so stop with this … more"Carver raped Rebecca bullshit."
It's obvious Rebecca doesn't want to talk about Carver in front of the group (Alvin) and disposes Clementine with vague answers when she asks about him. We know she had a feeling the baby was Carver's, but she was afraid to tell Alvin the truth (bathroom and lodge scenes), because she felt guilty about that. What we also know that she didn't want her husband to find out - therefore continue on lying after the birth.
Bill, please!
* If you haven't noticed yet, Rebecca was the only one from Cabin Group who keeps calling Carver "Bill". Couldn't find any singe exception. Why? You tell me. In my opinion, people using names to expose some feelings to each other or to emphasize the existence of some kind of relationship.
* At the end, listen to Carver's un… [view original content]
Comments
Thats why i said unnecessary murder. Better just banishing people than killing them.
Well imo, she deserved it. I hated people like Sarah when i was in school. Talking shit with someone while teacher is trying to explain something.
I'd say Carver cared about the baby more than Rebecca. So he needed her to be close, not to love him.
Unnecessary murder. Glad that we can agree on something.
[removed]
Too bad Carlos never showed her how bad world really is.
Carver had created safe place for survivors. What did Kenny do this season? Got people killed and tried to murder group member.
What? Why would you accuse someone of trolling, while looking like a troll yourself?
Well she could have been another Jamie situation. Some people just cant take it.
He has the right to have his own opinion, everybody can. It ain't this hard to understand.
She was kinda like Jamie in the trailer park.
Well the only difference is that she was shocked because of her father died, while Jamie had depression and suicidal thoughts for months.
Like you said, not everyone can be saved.
same here.
what?
I'm gonna continue on fleshing out Carver's character here.
Carver and Rebecca
The fault lies on both sides.
It's obvious Rebecca doesn't want to talk about Carver in front of the group (Alvin) and disposes Clementine with vague answers when she asks about him. We know she had a feeling the baby was Carver's, but she was afraid to tell Alvin the truth (bathroom and lodge scenes), because she felt guilty about that. What we also know that she didn't want her husband to find out - therefore continue on lying after the birth.
Bill, please!
If you haven't noticed yet, Rebecca was the only one from Cabin Group who keeps calling Carver "Bill". Couldn't find any singe exception. Why? You tell me. In my opinion, people using names to expose some feelings to each other or to emphasize the existence of some kind of relationship.
At the end, listen to Carver's unused audio.
It was typical "office romance".
Carver was some sort of engineer before the apocalipse (as confirmed by Bonnie), meaning he was the one who directed the management of energy in Howe's Hardware. We know all devices were controlled from Carver's office, and Rebecca worked there, making annoucements for the community.
My guts tell me that their "relationship" started this way.
Thoughts?
Jeez guys, can we do ONE thread without the Kenny shit? By the way, I agree with you on Howe's... which I think is a first here. Howe's had supplies which almost nowhere had, it seemed relatively safe from the main world threat. It seemed like a great place. Yes, Carver was dangerous and unhinged but not as dangerous as the horde on the outside. And he seemed like he wasn't hugely popular so he might have ended up dead anyway, leaving Howe's as a great location to be.
Actually, in most of episode 4 I was wondering why not one person suggested they go back there.
He had the ski-lodge but Bonnie fucked that up
And all the bodies by the river, the whole group emmediatly thought "Carver" who inprisoned people and killed a man because of some berries... but its zykelator again, if Kenny did those things the whole forum had known becasue you wouldn't shut up about it ... am i wrong?
Off course i am (in your eyes as always)
The whole location looked like it wouyldn't hold and in janes ending the doors were open and dead walkers were inside so i guess they had to go to a cold place were walkers were slow and would not last
they never knew how many weapons they had left there so what if they came back and 1-2 days later the "swarm"returned and their firepower was slim to none.. it would fall...
Remember the walkers that came through the windows ? how can you fix an entire fort with just 5 people and also keep an eye out and help your friends if they were attacked
That's a lot of 'what ifs'. Nowhere is safe so it's about taking a chance on something and one thing we know they didn't have was supplies and the one place we knew for certain had plenty was Howe's. And the herd would have no interest in their food and likely would have passed through, even if a bunch got caught up there and remained.
So at the very least, it was worth returning to see what state was in. If it couldn't be fixed up, they'd still have access to a ton of supplies.
Well they didn't know if the supplies were still there with Howes deserted , they were lucky.
But they were lucky in most of the endings so
And , a lot of what ifs ?
My count stops at 1
Yep, you're right. It's entirely possible others took the supplies or it could have been looted soon afterwards.
The people on the roof who were shooting at the herd could have taken it all
Glad they didn't then...
Guess they would've, but didn't have time to do so.
Dude, Winston dies. You push him into walker and he gets eaten. He ain't Pete.
Sorry? I never said he was.
tbh, I never liked Rebecca.
I actually agree about George's death playing a role in making Carver become more unstable and personally invested in revenge. After his murder of Reggie, he talks about how it's important to have people who lighten the atmosphere because it's all too easy to 'sink into depression'. I feel that the chaos following Rebecca's initial escape, along with the loss of someone who might very well have been an emotional crutch or moral chain for him, made him more willing to murder strangers. I'd also add that Luke and Carlos (if I recall) both refer to Carver as 'Bill', and I'm pretty sure they aren't having affairs with him.
It's not hard to see how he'd murder the bandits. Perhaps they tried to rob his group and ended up slaughtered. Perhaps he simply didn't consider them valuable enough to bring back (the cabin group was already enough to handle - 10+ people would have been harder). Maybe he just doesn't like bandits for endangering his community, seeing as two former members of his group immediately leap to the conclusion that he murdered them.
What I disagree with is the idea that Carver was once a good guy. On the contrary, I suspect he always was a latent sociopath - his behavior fits the check-list perfectly, the cabin group all had valid reasons for hating him, and him being an 'engineer' could support the interpretation that he was given to see people as tools. I believe that he worked as a manager at Howe's Hardware when the apocalypse hit, and became more strict with the rules as the community expanded - no partying, no smoking/drinking, no sex (Luke apparently hadn't had any for two years), no doing anything that made you vulnerable to attack.
At the same time, as he became more enamored with the power he had as the leader and convinced himself that everything he did was for the good of the community, he became a hypocrite. He presumably admired the 'strength' of Rebecca enough to make her his secretary, and abused his entitlement as leader ("I need this because I'm overstressed/think about the consequences if you refuse") to coerce her into an affair that she hated enough to enjoy seeing his face beaten in. The problem arose when she began to show signs of her pregnancy and Carver immediately claimed ownership of the child, ignoring her own loyalty to her husband.
None of us know the real circumstances or reasons behind Alvin's killing of George, but Carver interpreted it to be a personal attack. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. Alvin is convinced that Rebecca has his child, so I doubt he'd believe she had an affair with Carver. Perhaps Carver was projecting, believing that Alvin was as vengeful a person as he was and would have murdered George to spite his 'rival'.
Carver was always a shitty person. It's just that, after getting pissed off over Rebecca leaving, he became an unstable mess and lost the trust of his followers. I doubt he'd have murdered Reggie and Walter, or beaten Kenny into a coma, had he not been stressed by the fallout of Rebecca's initial escape.
Oh, whoops. I don't know why i said that. I guess that's what sleep deprivation does to a person, haha.
Great post. Really well done. I must say it's refreshing to-- HOLY SHIT! LEE WHERE IS YOUR MAJESTIC BEARD?! YOU LOOK 17! o_o
I didn't say all of them were having affairs (I checked the Season again and I'm pretty sure Rebecca was the only one calling him "Bill"; I might be wrong though) I was just pointing out the existence of some kind of relationship (subconscious maybe). Rebecca could feel guilty, or think she can solve the problem or appease both sides at least. Hope you can understand what I'm trying to explain, English isn't my first language.
About murders down by the river, I don't know the truth, I can only suspect what really happened - and that's the reason I posted this discussion. All ideas are good and I'd love to see more of them, but guess people are too busy talking about Jane and Kenny that they cant come up with their own (glad you did Bokor).
Where did I say that? He was written to be bad, there were just moments when he was more gray than black, I pointed it out many times before.
If that's true, Carver was indeed a hypocrite.
Yes, agreed. The baby was his priority.
Geez Tobi, is this all you have to say?
I was smoking too much @ABigBadWolf's cigarettes and my facial hair just fall out.
Appreciate the stubblessness!
They lost their leader a long time ago when the cabin group fled because Carver lost his mind , he was the saddam hussein of TWD so good riddance.
If its something he doesn't want to see then you can start to fear for your life(sarah cutting berries or talking to clem anyone?)
If you talk back to Carver like you do at everyone here you wouldn't last long
I think my 'disagreement' about Carver's nature was more with Telltale's writers than with you. Carver in Episodes 2 and 3 is a classic sociopath - he's superficially charming, lies with no remorse or hesitation, has no hesitation to hurt people if it accomplishes a goal - and rightfully treated as such. However, him being juxtaposed with Kenny seems to be an attempt to make us believe that he'd once been as friendly and caring as Kenny once was, even though Kenny at his most violent and abusive is still not cold-blooded.
They're different people, but I say the allusion is justified. Carver, Kenny, Rick and the Governor all start out somewhat idealistic and work to do good, but they all break at some point, making too many sacrifices and trading bits of their humanity to survive. In the end, everyone becomes a unique strand of crazy/evil, whether that's Rick beating a man until his arm is shattered and the guy doesn't have a face, Carver becoming a manipulative and sadistic chessmaster, or Jane lying about a baby being dead so she has an excuse to murder someone she wants to believe is crazy. They're not going to make the same choices - Kenny will never be the cold sociopath Carver was - but the moral is the same. In the end, good people will do anything.
And Clem, by the end, is either complicit in someone's murder or actually fatally shoots someone herself. Or she does both.
ClementineForSeason3Antagonist
Carver was an engineer?
Why did Bonnie say this?
Im just curious, I dont remember her saying that.
Unused audio:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GohvEpsvuW
Funny, I accidently typed your question in google and this happened:
He even had a website.