Character Actions: JANE, the good, the bad, the debatable (SP!)
I just decided I'd make lists of some characters' decisions and actions in The Walking Dead Game series during the zombie apocalypse and share my perspective on how they are good, bad or debatable.
First up is Jane (S2E3-S2E5)
Dragging her sister, Jaime, across 4 states (debatable) - This action has good values because Jane saved someone she truly cared for, it told us that Jane had a humane side and that she wasn't only a survivalist at heart, she obviously cared for her sister enough to risk her life just to save someone else who might've been considered a liability by others, however, this action has bad values as Jaime accepted her fate, the way Jane talked about Jaime tells that she gave up and she didn't want to live in a world where the dead roam and devour, it tells us that Jane postponed the inevitable and restricted her sister's decision, sure she saved Jaime, but the fact of the matter is that Jaime didn't want to be saved.
Leaving Jaime on the rooftop (debatable) - This action has good values, Jane finally let her sister have the death she had wanted from the beginning, she finally let her sister, Jaime, choose her fate, this action has bad values of course because she left the one person in the world she loved and cared for, after trying so hard so many times she decided to give up, we don't fully know the situation she was but we know that she let someone near and dear to her die, proof of this was when Jane says she just left her there.
Helping the bitten Survivor in Washington D.C. (debatable) - This action's good values are Jane helped a Survivor, not knowing he was bitten, she helped save a life despite her supposed survivor intuitions, she put her own life at risk to help save someone who kept their bite hidden from everyone else, obviously the bad values are that she never mentions that they checked him for bites, one of the most frequently asked questions in The Walking Dead Universe, she helped save a bite victim who ended up causing the death of a seemingly peaceful elderly Survivor, those are the bad values.
Helping the group escape Howe's (debatable) - This action's good values are that Jane helped a group of people who were desperate to escape the clutches of a supposed psychopath who was leading the Community, someone they all feared and had little to no respect for, she helped the group achieve their goal and she evidently didn't need the group's help as she seemingly deceived Troy and her skills would come in handy with her own escape plan, however, because she helped the group escape, she also helped cause the fall of an entire Community, because we don't know the Community's fate as we never see any actual proof of their status it's unknowing if the group truly killed the Community or not, but signs point to the death of many still, meaning that Jane can also be held responsible for the death of innocent lives.
Killing Troy (debatable) - Killing someone for the survival of others, Troy was obviously a danger to the group's escape plan as he is one of Carver's closest associates and we know how much of a jerk Troy can be, but did he truly deserve death? Jane didn't kill Troy, she let him suffer, signs point to her own ambitions but it aided the group, however it is evident that she could've just subdued him into aiding the group.
Helping Clementine and Rebecca in the Walker herd (good) - This was an act of pure good, Jane didn't need to help Clementine and Rebecca, she didn't owe them anything, in fact you could say that they owed her, but yet Jane went out of her way to help them, she may have done this because she felt like it was wrong to leave them, but she still helped them out of her own accord, this act helped showed how compassionate Jane can be, it showed us another side of her and she got Clementine and Rebecca out of the herd which could've been their end if it wasn't for Jane.
Asking about Rebecca's plans for AJ (debatable) - This was rather an insult to Rebecca, who was going through so much, giving birth to a baby in a world filled with walking dead, in a world where loved ones die in the stupidest way possible, Jane may have been thinking about the possible outcomes but it showed us how Jane had no hope, this angered Rebecca and it seemed as though Jane had no hope for AJ, however, Jane's mind was kind of in the right place, in a world where a birth can still fail, but death comes to the world of the living, you have to think about possibilities to ensure the survival of your loved ones and to prevent others from dying because you didn't think about a certain outcome.
Talking to Clementine about the group (debatable) - Jane's head was in the right place, she has had experiences with groups that have continuously failed and at the end of Season 2 we find that she was right about the group's situation, however, Jane tries to tell Clementine that Kenny and Rebecca, two people who have shown to distrust her, have become liabilities despite the fact that it was temporary, she tries to persuade Clementine into thinking about her own survival, she tells Clementine that sometimes putting yourself above others is better than putting others about yourself, which is debatable all on it's own.
Trying to convince Clementine to leave Sarah (debatable) - This decision of Jane's was bad, why? Because Jane constantly tries to refer to Sarah as a Jaime replica, she tries to say that Sarah wants to die despite the fact that even in the very end when she calls out for Clementine and Carlos showing that she wanted to be saved, Jane immediately gives up on Sarah for the survival of people she knows can survive and are not considered as liabilities, you could say that Jane's head was in a somewhat good place as Sarah could've been a danger to the group, but the fact is that saving Sarah doesn't change anything, in fact it only proves to show how Sarah was treated as a liability by Jane and the others, so that's why she became one, saving Sarah doesn't cause anything bad to happen except for a second death, in which Jane can determinantly try to prevent, so trying to convince Clementine to leave a friend behind when saving her has no actual bad impact apart from a second death is just bad in a way, Sarah dies anyway, but Jane wanted Clementine to leave Sarah as soon as trouble had risen. Despite the fact that the group had nothing to lose to save Sarah, Jane was going through a somewhat similar state as she was going through before with her sister Jaime. Being reminded of the past and a past that isn't that great or a person who was near and dear to you who met their fate can make anyone think twice about the current situation they're in.
Threatening Arvo (debatable) - This is really the reason the Russians knew who Clementine was in the first place, Jane threatened a kid who was seemingly innocent, however we don't know if the Russians were just waiting for any group to come by and Jane was thinking about possible outcomes, she'd threaten a kid to try and prevent trouble from starting for the group.
Wanting to steal Arvo's medicine (debatable) - Stealing is stealing, even in the zombie apocalypse, we can tell that if you do steal, Jane seems to keep the rest of the medicine for herself which shows some selfishness in her actions, Clementine can even tell Arvo that Jane was to blame, however, Jane had good points, Arvo was trying to hide the medicine for his own purposes, Jane was doing what she thought was right for the group, which was stealing medicine to aid injured individuals in her current group.
Getting the door on the Observation Deck opened (good) - Why is this here? Well, Jane could've easily left the group from there if she wanted to, however, she decided to stay, sure it was implied that she had sex with Luke after she opened the door, but she provided a place for the group to stay and she didn't owe the group anything, she could've left and she did in the end of episode 4, but she left the group with a shelter.
Having sex with Luke (debatable) - Let's face it, in a zombie apocalypse some people would take an opportunity to forget about their troubles and focus on something else, Jane helped make Luke feel "human", but then again because of their little fun time, Luke was distracted from his duties, he was tasked to be on alert for Walkers but he wasn't doing his part because he was busy doing something else thanks to Jane's offer, well it's implied so it's definitely debatable.
Needing to be convince to save Sarah (debatable) - Jane is needed to convince Sarah, although she has the right not to and doesn't need to prove herself any further she still needs to be convinced to help a teenage girl in need, she practically refuses to help someone who is 'dead', this may have been true but Jane stuck with the group so she has responsibilities at that point, she could've left but she chose to stay and her involvement in Sarah's death is what causes her to stay
Leaving the group (debatable) - Jane leaving the group wasn't really a bad thing, we all kind of saw it coming. Jane had done more for the group then she needed to, she proved herself as reliable but she left with every right to, she helped the group so she had a good conscience. This was a bad thing though because it caused Luke to freak out and made the relationship between Luke and Kenny worsen, Luke reacted that way thanks to Jane's actions in that episode, sure she had the right to leave and she left the group some good things, but she also left behind some bad things.
Killing Vitali (debatable) - Jane didn't have to come and rescue the group from Vitali, Vitali was about to kill Kenny and Jane prevent his death from occurring, Jane saved the group when they were in trouble, Jane didn't have anything more to prove, she had every right to leave but she still chose to help the group, it was evident that Luke and Clementine had allot to do about her decision but she still made the choice to kill someone, however, she killed someone... someone who did her no wrong, she killed someone who, in her eyes was innocent in a way, she killed someone who didn't kill anyone from the group.
Saving Clementine if she falls through the ice (good) - Jane was risking her own life by running across thin ice, she didn't have to be the one to save Clementine but she was the first and she was the quickest in doing so, she gets Clementine out of the ice and pretty much prevents Clementine's death at that moment.
Starting the fire (good) - Jane is really the only who is focused at starting the fire for Clementine and determinantly Bonnie, she starts the fire with or without Clementine's help using the nail file, she may have been given the responsibility to do so when she joined the group, but there is nothing bad about saving people from an icy and chilling death.
Arguing with Kenny (debatable) - Jane had little right making fun of Kenny's eye injury and talking about his family and saying that he was just someone trying to save a bunch of dead people, telling us that Jane still had little hope of course she had reasons to have little hope, on the other hand, Jane has quite allot of right to backtalk Kenny, Kenny treated her immaturely in the car, therefore she retaliated by acting the way Kenny saw her, she was called nothing by Kenny, Kenny taunted her about how she cared for no one which is false and how no one cared for her which was also false as Luke is a prime example, also let's not forget that Jane is the whole reason Kenny wasn't shot and killed by Vitali, also she wants to leave Kenny, Clementine and AJ, she kind of has the right to leave a group that doesn't respect her, yet Kenny prevents her from leaving despite disliking her so much.
Lying about AJ (debatable) - Jane lied about AJ, well she only implied it, but it was still lying, Jane risked her own life and Kenny's life just to make a point, however, making points aren't the same as they used to be, Jane wanted to show Clementine how dangerous Kenny could be and we really don't know if there was any other way to show Kenny's anger, even though we've seen Kenny's anger from episode 2. Jane didn't have to hide AJ and provoke Kenny like that, but Kenny didn't have come to the conclusion that Jane killed AJ herself and believe in that with no evidence whatsoever.
Fighting Kenny (debatable) - Jane could've stopped the fight by saying that AJ was ok, but then again, knowing Kenny, would he really have believed Jane? Especially when he became aggressive saying Jane killed AJ seeming as though he had evidence when he really had nothing to show for it? Jane started the physical fight, but Kenny started the rivalry between them. Jane didn't have to use her knife in the battle, but it was rather obvious that Kenny wanted to use it against her, so Jane used it to defend herself. Kenny attacked Jane as soon as she put her knife away, but just because Kenny had the advantage of using the knife against her in the end and having Clementine who knew him from the beginning doesn't make Kenny a bad guy, but it doesn't make Jane the bad guy either, they were both fighting each other for their own intents and had nothing to show for it.
Letting the family in (debatable) - We see a rather soft hearted Jane if Clementine stays silent in Jane's ending, this is a good side as she lets people who could've died out in the open easily, they could be telling the truth and Jane could've saved them, however, Jane lets in a bunch of strangers, people who could be anybody, she says it herself but yet she can still accept them, they have weapons and they seemed to have survived long enough and they could be lying, the family's honest is really what makes this decision debatable, they could be harmless or harmful, we won't know until we see the outcome of this decision.
Have anything to add to Jane's actions?
Do you have your own opinion of Jane's actions?
Agree or Disagree with me on anything?
Just add it in the comments!
I will be doing a Bonnie one next, I guess it would be quicker to start from the characters that haven't appeared for a whole Season.
Comments
All good points though I think killing vitali is good, the fact she is upset about it makes it better
I actually put good at first, but chances are people will say it's bad because she killed someone who wasn't harming her at all.
Really liked this. Though I think starting a fight with Kenny is bad. She knew how Kenny would react and she had to put Clementine threw a terrible choice between her friend and guardian, or basically her older sister.
To be fair, she was experiencing the worst moment of her life again, as she saw Sarah in same state as her sister was in the roof.
If Clem could convince her then Jane also could've , she never even tried
PTSD
That action also saved Kenny's life.
Jane was on the ground and Kenny was rushing at her, so she had to use her knife to avoid being pinned to the ground
Oh she could have? Luke tried to do that for 2 hours and all he managed to do is get surrounded by walkers because Sarah started screaming. How do you think Jane could have done anything?
Yeah I know it's there xd
Sorry, I know Jane had her own purposes and she felt like she was going through a similar situation, she also was put in danger by doing so since Bonnie and Mike only helped for one second, I'll change that one tomorrow xd
I know, but Jane could've left when she had the chance, when Clementine can tell her to run/leave before the fight and when Jane and Kenny are outside, Jane chose to keep the fight with Kenny going as Kenny also chose the same thing.
Pranking a father who's lost his family twice (bad) - She tells Clem to see what kind of person he truly is. Then tricks Kenny into thinking she killed or at least caused the death of the infant. Kenny attempts to serve justice. This was just a bad idea all around, and I couldn't justify rescuing her. In both my saves, I watched her die.
Kind of added this one
lying about AJ.
It was a bad idea, but letting Clementine stay with Kenny would have been worse, since he wasnt that safe to be around and if anything happened to AJ, Kenny would have gone crazy (like he did with Jane). Kenny forcing Clementine to go north for a suicide mission wasnt good either.
ps. @prink34320
Jane's actions lead to a guaranteed death, possibly two and could have resulted in two more because, had Jane died, AJ may not have cried and so wouldn't have ever been found and Clem might not have survived on her own. No matter what else she did in the game, that one act and the extent to which she carried it through made her the most dangerous person in the group. So no, letting Clementine stay with Kenny would not have been worse because Jane could have wiped out every single one of them with that misjudgment.
That is so far fetched, that im not even going to bother giving proper answer.
In my game, Kenny already caused 2 group members to die and kept putting Clementine in danger/ignored her, started a firefight, cause Bonnie and Mike to leave the group, forced Clementine to go north on suicide mission against her will... Kenny was a threat to others around him and there is no point to claim otherwise.
There wasnt any group left thanks to Kenny. It was Jane vs Kenny and Clementine between them. Alone ending shows that Clementine surely can survive on her own, but with that baby around probably not for too long.
"im not even going to bother giving proper answer."
And sure enough you are a man of your word.
far fetched....
All you do is acting like that Kenny is Satan and Jane(haaaaaaaaaaleluja) who slices kenny in the gut after attacking him and lying about the death of AJ who is very important for humanity
And that is the problem people have with you, you refuse to accept other peoples outcome in their game
And Kenny worse ? Jane will desert her in a hearthbeat if Clem is going through a rough time PTSD(post traumatic stress syndrome from Jaime) and if you won't accept that then you are the most biased person on this forum
Kenny is no angel. But that still doesn't justify pranking the guy into a murderous rage. Kenny is not a good leader, and he's been edging closer to the edge every day. Jane even mentioned in the car that people were scared of him, were talking behind his back and after Sarita died and he had a gun in his hands, the group was very nervous about that and kept themselves armed. So why oh why would she think it'd be a good idea to trick him into thinking the infant died. Why would she push him over the edge, if not to try and cause his death in some way? I don't know why she holstered her knife in mid-fight other than to trick the audience into thinking she doesn't want a fight, but clearly she did. I actually liked her and enjoyed our time together when we rescued Luke and Sarah, she was one of very few characters in the game who doesn't treat Clem like a baby. But she went too far and she should never have tried to test Kenny because he will pass every time.
p.s.- She could have left with Mike and Arvo, she could have left any time after Luke died, but she didn't. IMO, she wanted to push Kenny over the edge and the only outcome out of that is death.
No, i bring some balance here. People are way too biased to remain objective, when talking about characters they like.
If someone is suicidal for long period of time, then let them die. I wouldnt try to force someone to live either, if they truly didnt want to live. If someone gets depressed momentarily, then thats not proper reason to commit suicide, but if the decision is well thought and you have spent time thinking about it, then why not?
Isnt Satan the better guy in bible?
She stayed to protect Clementine. She quite obviously cared deeply for her well-being.
How come Kenny gets off Scott-free for killing Larry cause he perceived a docile, nearly dead man a threat to his survival to rescue his family? But Jane is evil cause she perceived an insane perpetually violent man as threat to Clementine's well-being?
Putting her feet up on the dash (bad)
Not evil, just written as a dumbass in that moment.
A very large & strong nearly dead man in a world where you turn into a thing without any instincts but to kill & eat after death inside a small room with 4 considerably weaker and unarmed people.
And Jane provoked the insane perpetually violent man into being violent on the grounds of an assumption & because she wanted someone all to herself.
Zyke does bring balance actually, he is always objective. There are many more Kenny extremists than Jane ones, definately. You said we think Kenny is Satan, but it's hypocritical because Kenny fans say he's god and act like Jane is Satan. I doubt many Kenny fans have played an anti Kenny play through. You have to see both sides to make a proper judgement. And no, Jane wouldn't abandon clem. Yes, Satan is the better guy, but I used the normal Satan=evil biased viewpoint that is normally used .
Because Kenny didn't make fun of Larry's deceased wife and cause him to have a heart attack so he could get rid of him.
There, you're welcome.
Plus, killing Larry wasn't pretty, but it was necessary. We were stuck in a damn meat locker with no way out. As much as I liked Larry, I couldn't risk him eating Clementine and the rest of us. In Kenny's case, we were in the middle of nowhere, literally. Not to mention, Kenny didn't risk a baby's life just to pull such a childish/evil (depending on how you see it) stunt. Then again, the AJ part probably doesn't bother you at all.
Point is, it was a known fact that if Larry woke up he'd eat the rest of us. Jane was jumping to conclusions, on the other hand. The worst Kenny did to Clementine this season was smack-talk her, which determinantly is somewhat understandable. Other than that?
Trust a group of strangers just so Clementine can have a nice night and be safe.
Lose an eye for her.
(Determinant) Gives up when Carver threatens her.
Literally fights two guys with AK's and Shotguns by himself while Clementine and the others hide behind a rock. Him and Jane saved everyone's lazy asses by themselves.
The comparison would only be remotely acceptable if we ended up getting stuck at the rest stop somehow and Kenny started throwing saltlicks at people. Kenny was insane, but I still trusted him more to give his life for Clementine than Jane or anyone else.
Not convinced you guys know what objective means.
Unbiased? I didn't make that decision because I liked Kenny or that I like Jane, if Lee was trying to stab walter for the exact same reason, I know that wouldn't happen but still, I would if shot Lee. It doesn't matter what character it is I still would of shot them. Sorry hard to use this website on mobile. and backspace isn't working for some reason
You're telling me - I'm trying to use this board on my iPad and it really doesn't function well. I'm having to type most responses in a note and paste it into the message. Yes, unbiased and I agree with what you describe in your example (I too shot Kenny, if it matters). But the view above you being described as unbiased is incredibly biased, it's just biased in the whole other direction. That's fine - it's all opinion and opinion is subjective and valid. But it's not objective.
I really wouldn't call most of those... debatable... especially her leaving a baby in a car surrounded by walkers. Crying draws walkers to you, as Jane saw with Sarah. She just didn't care, as she considered the baby a liability from the start.
There's much too many unexplained variables for me to accept something to flagrantly obtuse.
IF Larry were a mortal threat to everyone in the meat locker, and IF he were actually dead. Why not wait till he shows signs of re-animation? Why not allow him a chance to flinch a muscle? Be cautious, but give the man a chance to show distinct signs of post-mortem or not. Then, IF he were truly dead, you'd have a few seconds to react before he gets up. Kenny could stand by the saltlick (for defense in case shit hit the fan) and if it did, utilize those few seconds to kill him.
The problem I have is that Kenny showed little remorse for the action. And, in fact, butted heads with Lily more after he savagely killed a man who was quite heavily implied to still be alive. People like to defend this by saying "just because Larry was breathing doesn't mean he was alive." Which is so apparently grasping for straws, I don't even know how to react. I thinks it's appalling that people will search for any reason to defend something so blatantly fucked up if Kenny does it.
You can continue to defend him and his monstrous actions, but there were well over a hundred ways he could've handled that situation better. His blinded paranoid and hatred for Larry is what was powering his actions in that meat locker and he just used the "he's a threat" as his bait to come off more sympathetic.
I didn't take his bait.
I shot him because it's murder, not b ca use it was Kenny and not because Jane was going to get stabbed. I'm biased to think murder is wrong I guess but I'm not biased towards any character. That didn't affect my choice. How is that biased? Kenny fans are biased towards Kenny and Jane fans are biased towards Jane. I am neither, I'm neutral, I don't let my opinions of a person affect the choice, what their action is, and that action is a fact, is what I base it on. That's objective.
It would take too long to comment on each and every one, so I'll pick and choose. Quality post, by the way
Dragging her sister, Jaime, across 4 states (debatable, but I personally believe good) - Jaime had indeed accepted her fate, and Jane refused to accept that. But what Jane did was what any good family member should have done. If my brother told me he couldn't take it and wanted to die instead, I'd to everything in my power to prevent him from succeeding in that. The only time I would justify purposely letting a family member kill them self is if they are bit or otherwise gravely injured and suffering. Just because someone else has given up doesn't mean she should let them. If you truly love them, you should help them, no matter how difficult and painful it may be. Someone might not be strong enough to handle what is going on, but that doesn't mean YOU can't be strong FOR them. That might be a little too much for some people, but I know that if I were put in that situation I wouldn't just let them pull the trigger.
Killing Troy (bad) - This is really just my own morality, but I didn't see it as necessary. Troy acted like a rotten bastard but I don't think he deserved to die. When Jane was beginning to talk about if he'd like to leave Howe's with them, Troy hesitated and began to consider this. I actually saw some vulnerability from him in that scene. He wasn't trying to stop them after Jane began convincing him, but she killed him anyway in an exceptionally cruel manner.
Lying about AJ (bad) -She knew Kenny was dangerous, and risked her life just to prove a point. There is a line between selflessness and plain stupidity, and Jane crossed it. Provoking him was more trouble than it was worth. Saying a baby died and not explaining her part in that is a horrible thing to do. This lie of hers also caused her to leave AJ alone in a car, which was incredibly reckless. Even if he was all wrapped up, AJ could have suffered hypothermia (imagine if he wet himself and was laying there immobile in a soggy wet diaper). A walker could easily stumble near the car and spot him or hear his cries.
I like Jane as a character in a similar way to liking Lily- they both are so polarizing and make morally grey decisions that make one think. While I like her, I don't agree with every choice she has made.
The situation could have been handlded better, sure. However, the game treated it as a risk-or-kill choice, which is what I'm basing on. Based on your logic, Clementine has made as many mistakes as Kenny or anyone in the game. How about this, why couldn't Lee just sit next to her all afternoon instead of falling asleep? Because the game wouldn't allow it. If you start bringing up what could have happened to support your opinion we can find ourselves arguing for ages. Based on what we got, taking Larry out was the practical thing to do. Kenny sure made a tough decision in a matter of seconds, but neither you or me can judge until we know what it feels like to be stuck with a possibly zombified 6 foot guy and your family being about to get eaten/raped/used or god knows what.
He did show remorse. He didn't care for either Larry (The guy who wanted to feed his son to the walkers) or Lilly (The woman who had been antagonizing him for three months), so if you were expecting him to cry we probably weren't playing the same game. He stated that he didn't enjoy doing what he did, but it needed to be done. He tried apologizing to Lilly and she went off on him, understandbly so. Forgive him for not wanting to try again while his family were captured by cannibals.
That's debatable, to say the least. He obviously disliked Larry, but he had survived with the guy for a few months now. It's not like with Jane, who attempted to kill Kenny three days after meeting him. Accusing Kenny of killing Larry because of his selfishness and only thinking about his family is fair enough. Saying it was because of his hatred for Larry is absurd.
I will continue to defend his actions, just like you will continue to hate on him for everything he ever does. It's how the world works.
I wasn't questioning whether you were unbiased. I was questioning your view that Zyke is "always objective" whereas history does not support that.
Wha... What? @saltlick305 ? I thought you were dead...
I'am. This is all a dream.
In all seriousness, I have barely posted in the last month or so.
So you get to be noble cause you defend him? I'm "hating on him" cause I hesitate to trust a man who senselessly murders a father in front of his daughter, a "friend," and a young innocent girl? This is why I can't take some of your guys' points seriously. You had me there for a minute, then just negated it by implying I'm a "hater" cause of my genuine distaste for the man's actions.
But, it's whatever. I will continue to be a "hater" and a "Jane peasant" and a "piece of shit" because I don't like Kenny or his despicable actions. Cool.
Well now we can talk about stuff and things.
Well, that's a pretty good post! I kinda want to see one of Bonnie maybe to see if people would hate her a little less!