Actually, walkers wouldn't be able to get to the baby as they're all frozen due to the cold. I don't think Jane would leave the baby in a protected car if she was just going to let him die
I really wouldn't call most of those... debatable... especially her leaving a baby in a car surrounded by walkers. Crying draws walkers to you, as Jane saw with Sarah. She just didn't care, as she considered the baby a liability from the start.
No, I couldn't care less if you like him or not. If you think those names fit you, that's on you. I haven't called you a "hater"or any of those nicknames. You are hating on Kenny, whether rationally or not. Just like I hate on Jane. Why are you being sensitive all of a sudden? Haven't you admitted that you despise him? Haven't you called him Satan? Haven't you called him a piece of shit? You obviously hate him, and it's fine. I don't think you're a hater, I'm stating a fact. ->You hate him.<- That's what "Continue to hate on him" means.
Dude, it's not even about the Larry thing. I know where you're coming from in that perspective. It's some of the other stuff you say that really makes me think it's blind hatred.
Kenny killed Larry because he had a personal vendetta. Prove it.
Kenny doesn't care about Clementine because he killed Carver in front of her. This one is laughable. You decide to stay there and watch knowing for a fact Kenny will not change his mind. It wasn't about Clementine, Sarita, or anyone else. Kenny saw an opportunity to get revenge on the guy who almost killed him and took it. Was it the healthy decision? Probably not, but it has nothing to do with his feelings towards her. Also, how are you okay with Clementine becoming a babykiller but then think watching Carver die is terrible? You're either against brutality, or you're not.
I will continue to defend his actions, just like you will continue to hate on him for everything he ever does. It's how the world works.
… more
So you get to be noble cause you defend him? I'm "hating on him" cause I hesitate to trust a man who senselessly murders a father in front of his daughter, a "friend," and a young innocent girl? This is why I can't take some of your guys' points seriously. You had me there for a minute, then just negated it by implying I'm a "hater" cause of my genuine distaste for the man's actions.
But, it's whatever. I will continue to be a "hater" and a "Jane peasant" and a "piece of shit" because I don't like Kenny or his despicable actions. Cool.
If someone makes decision to not wanting to live, what gives you right to force them to live? If someone wants to kill themselves because of temporary depression, then its ok to stop them, but if someone knowingly makes the decision of not wanting to live, its not up to you to stop them.
It would take too long to comment on each and every one, so I'll pick and choose. Quality post, by the way
Dragging her sister, Jaime, a… morecross 4 states (debatable, but I personally believe good) - Jaime had indeed accepted her fate, and Jane refused to accept that. But what Jane did was what any good family member should have done. If my brother told me he couldn't take it and wanted to die instead, I'd to everything in my power to prevent him from succeeding in that. The only time I would justify purposely letting a family member kill them self is if they are bit or otherwise gravely injured and suffering. Just because someone else has given up doesn't mean she should let them. If you truly love them, you should help them, no matter how difficult and painful it may be. Someone might not be strong enough to handle what is going on, but that doesn't mean YOU can't be strong FOR them. That might be a little too much for some people, but I kn… [view original content]
If it's my sister, then yes it is. Letting them kill themselves would be giving up with them, and you never give up on family. Making the decision to end one's life is a permanent and reckless choice that can actually be changed with support.
If someone makes decision to not wanting to live, what gives you right to force them to live? If someone wants to kill themselves because of… more temporary depression, then its ok to stop them, but if someone knowingly makes the decision of not wanting to live, its not up to you to stop them.
Oh she could have? Luke tried to do that for 2 hours and all he managed to do is get surrounded by walkers because Sarah started screaming. How do you think Jane could have done anything?
You speak as if every suicide is based on temporary state of mind (depression etc). If someone simply doesnt want to live anymore, isnt it cruel to force them to live? If someone will tru to stop me from killing myself, i would hate them for the rest of my life.
Haha I knew you would reply to this xD
If it's my sister, then yes it is. Letting them kill themselves would be giving up with them, and … moreyou never give up on family. Making the decision to end one's life is a permanent and reckless choice that can actually be changed with support.
Do you not support people will terminal illnesses going off to Switzerland? Its pretty similar to committing suicide in the zombie apocalypse, you're going to die soon anyway.
Haha I knew you would reply to this xD
If it's my sister, then yes it is. Letting them kill themselves would be giving up with them, and … moreyou never give up on family. Making the decision to end one's life is a permanent and reckless choice that can actually be changed with support.
"Haven't I called him Satan?" Are you serious right now, guy? I think you may not be.
Kenny killed Larry because he had a personal vendetta. Prove it.
Well, you assume Kenny killed Larry to "save his family." Meaning time would be of essence. Why does Kenny, then, choose to not help Lee in the fight with the first St. John brother in the barn? If time is of the essence, would Kenny not want to team up with Lee and help take down Danny(?) faster? He was hiding while Lee was in danger. But chose NOT to participate in bringing the man down. This shows extreme cowardice and disloyalty.
Kenny doesn't care about Clementine because he killed Carver in front of her.
I've explained this though, man. I've explained that if anyone really cared for someone else, he would probably hold back on his macho self-indulgent power fantasies just long enough to realized a young girl were there. Also by that logic, statutory rape is acceptable in certain context's. And why not? If a twelve year old is trying to seduce you that means she must know it's what she wants, right? It's not like she's immature or anything and her mind hasn't progressed far enough to be capable of making that decision. It's the same thing.
Now, let me address real quickly your childish "I couldn't care less" mentality. It's got to stop. You're never going to be willing to accept or address points validly if you're wrapped up in this ridiculous "us versus them" sensibility. It needs to stop, because now I feel no matter how much compiling evidence I stack up against Kenny, you're just going to bounce them back by using "IDGAF."
No, I couldn't care less if you like him or not. If you think those names fit you, that's on you. I haven't called you a "hater"or any of th… moreose nicknames. You are hating on Kenny, whether rationally or not. Just like I hate on Jane. Why are you being sensitive all of a sudden? Haven't you admitted that you despise him? Haven't you called him Satan? Haven't you called him a piece of shit? You obviously hate him, and it's fine. I don't think you're a hater, I'm stating a fact. ->You hate him.<- That's what "Continue to hate on him" means.
Dude, it's not even about the Larry thing. I know where you're coming from in that perspective. It's some of the other stuff you say that really makes me think it's blind hatred.
* Kenny killed Larry because he had a personal vendetta. Prove it.
* Kenny doesn't care about Clementine because he killed Carver in front of her. This one is laughable. You decide to stay there and watch knowing for … [view original content]
You've called him the devil on many occasions. I can't believe you're denying it. Oh well, you clearly lost your cool in your last reply.
Because he did. And, based on what was said and experienced throughout the entire scene, it's much more likely. Are you implying that Kenny's supposed hatred towards Larry was more powerful than his love for Katjaa and Duck? 10/10 for being logical. That has nothing to do with what we're discussing, but you're clearly running out of stones to throw at me so I might as well adress it. Kenny is the type of guy who can be extremely loyal and die for you or a pain in the ass you cannot trust to have your back. There's no justifying Kenny not helping Lee, it's just who he is. In some playthroughs, he feels as if he can't rely on Lee to do what needs to be done which forces him to be the same way towards him. It's the wrong mentality, but Kenny is 50 years old or so. We can't change the way he thinks. Unlike you, I'm not being biased and replying "lolz Lee deserved it urban fuck". Kenny makes mistakes, he's just not the walking error you assume him to be.
What a load of crap. Poor attempt at throwing more shit at Kenny. First of all, comparing the Carver situation with rape is just the lowest you can go in your mission of making Kenny look evil. It's not macho self-indulgent fantasies, he took revenge on someone who had almost killed him. It wasn't like Carver. "I'm strong, you're weak. And fuck you for taking my berries." Also, Kenny pleads Clementine to get out and warns her that it will get messy. After that, if you decide to stay and watch, it's pretty clear that Clementine's hatred for Carver was strongest than preserving whatever innoncence she had left. You'll just keep repeating yourself, so I'll leave this little chat here.
Sarita: "I'm not letting you see this."
Clementine: "It's not your decision"
Funny, cause' I've adressed everything you've said while you skipped an entire reply and only focused on the hater part. Oh, I'm also expecting for your AJ reply. Go on, try to justify being a babykiller after giving a guy shit for killing a dangerous man. We're all waiting.
ThinkForYourself
lol, I clearly hit a nerve. That escalated quickly.
"Haven't I called him Satan?" Are you serious right now, guy? I think you may not be.
Kenny killed Larry because he had a personal ven… moredetta. Prove it.
Well, you assume Kenny killed Larry to "save his family." Meaning time would be of essence. Why does Kenny, then, choose to not help Lee in the fight with the first St. John brother in the barn? If time is of the essence, would Kenny not want to team up with Lee and help take down Danny(?) faster? He was hiding while Lee was in danger. But chose NOT to participate in bringing the man down. This shows extreme cowardice and disloyalty.
Kenny doesn't care about Clementine because he killed Carver in front of her.
I've explained this though, man. I've explained that if anyone really cared for someone else, he would probably hold back on his macho self-indulgent power fantasies just long enough to realized a young girl were there. Also by that logic, statutory rape is acc… [view original content]
Everything you just said, without exception, is utterly wrong.
There's no justifying Kenny not helping Lee, it's just who he is.
There's no justifying Troy hitting Clem either, it just is who he is.
There's no justifying Carver beating Kenny almost to death, it just is who he is.
There's no justifying Benito Mussolini from being an evil tyrant that killed millions, he just is who he is.
And with that, I'm done. You say I "have no more stones to throw" and then make up the flimsiest of arguments even a kindergarten child would cringe at. You're all out of half-assed defenses it would seem.
You've called him the devil on many occasions. I can't believe you're denying it. Oh well, you clearly lost your cool in your last reply.
… more Because he did. And, based on what was said and experienced throughout the entire scene, it's much more likely. Are you implying that Kenny's supposed hatred towards Larry was more powerful than his love for Katjaa and Duck? 10/10 for being logical. That has nothing to do with what we're discussing, but you're clearly running out of stones to throw at me so I might as well adress it. Kenny is the type of guy who can be extremely loyal and die for you or a pain in the ass you cannot trust to have your back. There's no justifying Kenny not helping Lee, it's just who he is. In some playthroughs, he feels as if he can't rely on Lee to do what needs to be done which forces him to be the same way towards him. It's the wrong mentality, but Kenny is 50 years old or so. We can't change the way he thinks. Unlike y… [view original content]
Guys, he skipped another reply after calling me out for doing so and proceeded to insult me because he's out of petty excuses to hate on Kenny. Your AJ reply never came.
"What a fuckin' shocker!"
What's the point of that? There's no justifying any of those actions, like I said. What you're trying to prove now is a mystery. At first, it was Kenny's evil nature, now...damn.
Everything you just said, without exception, is utterly wrong.
There's no justifying Kenny not helping Lee, it's just who he is.
… more
There's no justifying Troy hitting Clem either, it just is who he is.
There's no justifying Carver beating Kenny almost to death, it just is who he is.
There's no justifying Benito Mussolini from being an evil tyrant that killed millions, he just is who he is.
And with that, I'm done. You say I "have no more stones to throw" and then make up the flimsiest of arguments even a kindergarten child would cringe at. You're all out of half-assed defenses it would seem.
Good day, sir.
There's no justifying Kenny not helping Lee, it's just who he is.
And I was drained after that. You should've seen me laughing... It was funny though, so thank you for the humor.
Now, the AJ thing you so adamantly want me to address was about my post, correct?
Edit: If it is, go look there, I've talked to a few very cordial individuals and explained my points. I refuse to go over them again with someone who'll shoot them down because they only see one aspect of a much broader opinion.
Guys, he skipped another reply after calling me out for doing so and proceeded to insult me because he's out of petty excuses to hate on Ken… moreny. Your AJ reply never came.
"What a fuckin' shocker!"
What's the point of that? There's no justifying any of those actions, like I said. What you're trying to prove now is a mystery. At first, it was Kenny's evil nature, now...damn.
It was nice talking to you! Sorry you got mad.
Guys, he skipped another reply after calling me out for doing so and proceeded to insult me because he's out of petty excuses to hate on Ken… moreny. Your AJ reply never came.
"What a fuckin' shocker!"
What's the point of that? There's no justifying any of those actions, like I said. What you're trying to prove now is a mystery. At first, it was Kenny's evil nature, now...damn.
It was nice talking to you! Sorry you got mad.
Look, you're welcome to come back here and continue to get systematically killed once you've calmed down and have something to offer other than baseless insults and unfunny jokes. I've calmly adressed all kinds of garbage just so you don't say "I have no answer". The same can't be said for you. You started yelling and crying out of nowhere.
Meh, you already bailed on this argument. Nice talking to you, bro!
I read up to the part you said.
There's no justifying Kenny not helping Lee, it's just who he is.
And I was drained after that… more. You should've seen me laughing... It was funny though, so thank you for the humor.
Now, the AJ thing you so adamantly want me to address was about my post, correct?
Edit: If it is, go look there, I've talked to a few very cordial individuals and explained my points. I refuse to go over them again with someone who'll shoot them down because they only see one aspect of a much broader opinion.
I think leaving Jaime on the rooftop was a bad decision. Jane does not have to continue saving her sister, but considering traveling four states, there was ample time to leave her without putting herself in imminent danger and feeling shitty about it.
I switched my thought about leaving Sarah as well because of previous statement, even though we actually see the imminent threat coming.
Leaving Howe's and killing Troy is good. Jane only give her input after the plan was placed in motion therefore I don't see it as her own decision to opine. Troy is a royal dick and was close enough to the group to kill them all. I surmise that there may have been some bad history between them for Jane to blow his dick off essentially. How she did it is of no consequence to me.
Holding up Arvo & stealing his medicine is good on her and the group. In times of the ZA, morality is blurred. He did not protect himself enough and he got caught slipping, just as he might have done something bad to Clem if Jane was not with her. At that point, he has to give up his goods because he does not have the leverage. Not taking the meds leave several members of your group vulnerable (bad). Taking the meds helps the group (good).
Lying about AJ - good. Kenny needed to be checked on his demeanor and attitude and frankly he was dangerous to Clem, Jane and AJ. It was not the best plan but him showing his aggression on numerous occasions how else was Jane suppose to combat this issue? Arguing was not working and regardless it did show Kenny impulsion to physical aggression.
and then make up the flimsiest of arguments even a kindergarten child would cringe at. You're all out of half-assed defenses it would seem.
… more
I don't know how someone can say that and then proceed to almost entirely ignore the actual points being made.
ClemInTime, Salt has been nothing but reasonable here. I don't know what you're possibly trying to get at. You're being way too defensive.
I will continue to defend his actions, just like you will continue to hate on him for everything he ever does. It's how the world works.
I responded by saying that people need to stop internally implying that being on Kenny's side means "defending" him, while not is "hating on him." It's in bad taste and implies that if you're not with him, you must be against him. I am, but that's hardly the point.
I'm tired of people then flipping things around by saying "I hate on Jane" (which he did not say initially, just that he defends Kenny's crazed actions).
I then give him points and comparisons to which he then reply's saying "what a load of crap" and "I don't care if you like him or not." Obviously not, or else he would try being polite and cordial and not basing my feelings on Kenny with me apparently wanting to "murder a baby." I still don't know where in the hell he pulled that one from.
and then make up the flimsiest of arguments even a kindergarten child would cringe at. You're all out of half-assed defenses it would seem.
… more
I don't know how someone can say that and then proceed to almost entirely ignore the actual points being made.
ClemInTime, Salt has been nothing but reasonable here. I don't know what you're possibly trying to get at. You're being way too defensive.
I responded by saying that people need to stop internally implying that being on Kenny's side means "defending" him, while not is "hating on him."
He didn't "start" by saying that. That statement was in direct response to you saying: "You can continue to defend him and his monstrous actions, but there were well over a hundred ways he could've handled that situation better. His blinded paranoid and hatred for Larry is what was powering his actions in that meat locker and he just used the "he's a threat" as his bait to come off more sympathetic."
One could assume that you were implying that he was blindly defending Kenny there... which is why he turned around and gave the other side of the coin argument. And I mean.. this statement really is irrelevant to the actual points he was making... it was just kind of an aside. I'm not sure how this is a big deal. You have made it clear that you are anti Kenny in essentially every discussion pertaining to him. All the guy was saying was that he was going to stand his ground, and that you were going to stand yours. There really wasn't any reason to get so offended over that, let alone basically ignore everything he said.
It's in bad taste and implies that if you're not with him, you must be against him. I am, but that's hardly the point.
It doesn't necessarily imply that at all. You kind of jumped the gun on that point. He was simply talking about your apparent hatred of the character, and where you are personally aligned in these debates. It really wasn't a big deal..
then give him points and comparisons to which he then reply's saying "what a load of crap"
Yeah, he did say that (and maybe he shouldn't have, but you had kind of lost your cool at that point...), but let's not pretend like he just left it at that. He made an entire argument. He didn't just say: "That's a load of crap" and then walk away.
and "I don't care if you like him or not."
He was simply saying that he wasn't agitated by your personal hatred of the character... he was just talking about where you were aligned in comparison to himself.
Obviously not, or else he would try being polite and cordial and not basing my feelings on Kenny
He was being perfectly reasonable with you until you decided to give him repeated responses containing hostility. He was maybe a little edgy afterwards, but whatever. You really shouldn't be surprised that someone becomes irritable with you when you openly give up on being civil. It honestly seems like you are more interested in attacking the poster rather than actually attacking the poster's points.
Sorry if I put any words in your mouth there Salt. I'm really bored and have nothing to do with myself right now... so I tried to clarify the misunderstanding a little.
He hasn't though. He started by saying...
I will continue to defend his actions, just like you will continue to hate on him for everyt… morehing he ever does. It's how the world works.
I responded by saying that people need to stop internally implying that being on Kenny's side means "defending" him, while not is "hating on him." It's in bad taste and implies that if you're not with him, you must be against him. I am, but that's hardly the point.
I'm tired of people then flipping things around by saying "I hate on Jane" (which he did not say initially, just that he defends Kenny's crazed actions).
I then give him points and comparisons to which he then reply's saying "what a load of crap" and "I don't care if you like him or not." Obviously not, or else he would try being polite and cordial and not basing my feelings on Kenny with me apparently wanting to "murder a baby." I still don't know where in the hell he pulled that one from.
But remember what they say, don't try beating some sense into someone who clearly lost his temper halfway through the argument. He's literally being a Kenny. Ironic.
I responded by saying that people need to stop internally implying that being on Kenny's side means "defending" him, while not is "hating on… more him."
He didn't "start" by saying that. That statement was in direct response to you saying: "You can continue to defend him and his monstrous actions, but there were well over a hundred ways he could've handled that situation better. His blinded paranoid and hatred for Larry is what was powering his actions in that meat locker and he just used the "he's a threat" as his bait to come off more sympathetic."
One could assume that you were implying that he was blindly defending Kenny there... which is why he turned around and gave the other side of the coin argument. And I mean.. this statement really is irrelevant to the actual points he was making... it was just kind of an aside. I'm not sure how this is a big deal. You have made it clear that you are anti Kenny in essentially every discussion … [view original content]
It's not just any old "someone" I'm talking about though. I'm talking about a sibling. And you don't need to lecture me about depression, I've had plenty of experience dealing with it.
You speak as if every suicide is based on temporary state of mind (depression etc). If someone simply doesnt want to live anymore, isnt it c… moreruel to force them to live? If someone will tru to stop me from killing myself, i would hate them for the rest of my life.
That makes no sense, I was talking about a hypothetical situation in the confines of the zombie apocalypse universe, not about any old situation in real life.
Even if you did want to apply it to my hypothetical scenario, remember that I said:
The only time I would justify purposely letting a family member kill them self is if they are bit or otherwise gravely injured and suffering.
Do you not support people will terminal illnesses going off to Switzerland? Its pretty similar to committing suicide in the zombie apocalypse, you're going to die soon anyway.
I don't get why leaving Sarah is so bad it's undebatable, but insulting Kenny's family out of nowhere and trying to kill him to satisfy some form of bloodlust isn't.
I personally would never give up on a family member or friends they could be going through a hard time wanting to kill themselves but I believe everyone can be helped and saved if shown the right path and given the right help
Haha I knew you would reply to this xD
If it's my sister, then yes it is. Letting them kill themselves would be giving up with them, and … moreyou never give up on family. Making the decision to end one's life is a permanent and reckless choice that can actually be changed with support.
I cant see how thats relevant. If someone wants to die and its not hasty decision, but well thought, then you should let them do it. You shouldnt force others to live for your own selfish needs.
It's not just any old "someone" I'm talking about though. I'm talking about a sibling. And you don't need to lecture me about depression, I've had plenty of experience dealing with it.
It isn't for my own selfish needs. It would be completely for my brother. MY responsibility as his sibling and someone who loves him is to take care of him and NEVER give up. What he would be choosing is to give up, and you shouldn't give up on family, even if they do.
There was a time where I went out of my way to end my life until I had to be constantly monitored, particularly after I ended up in the hospital. I was so resentful towards the people in my life who were trying to stop me- I'd be violent and downright nasty; that's how much I hated them taking away my option to end my life and how desperate I was to die. But the people who cared about me sacrificed whatever they had and tried whatever they could do to make me fail in killing myself. How dare them, right?
No. If they just let me give up, I don't think I'd be here today. Even through all the shit they had to go through, they never gave up and they helped me lift myself out of something I thought was my own decided fate. And I could never thank them enough for it.
I cant see how thats relevant. If someone wants to die and its not hasty decision, but well thought, then you should let them do it. You shouldnt force others to live for your own selfish needs.
It isn't for my own selfish needs. It would be completely for my brother. MY responsibility as his sibling and someone who loves him is to t… moreake care of him and NEVER give up. What he would be choosing is to give up, and you shouldn't give up on family, even if they do.
There was a time where I went out of my way to end my life until I had to be constantly monitored, particularly after I ended up in the hospital. I was so resentful towards the people in my life who were trying to stop me- I'd be violent and downright nasty; that's how much I hated them taking away my option to end my life and how desperate I was to die. But the people who cared about me sacrificed whatever they had and tried whatever they could do to make me fail in killing myself. How dare them, right?
No. If they just let me give up, I don't think I'd be here today. Even through all the shit they had to go through, they never gave up and they helped me lift myself out … [view original content]
It would take too long to comment on each and every one, so I'll pick and choose. Quality post, by the way
Dragging her sister, Jaime, a… morecross 4 states (debatable, but I personally believe good) - Jaime had indeed accepted her fate, and Jane refused to accept that. But what Jane did was what any good family member should have done. If my brother told me he couldn't take it and wanted to die instead, I'd to everything in my power to prevent him from succeeding in that. The only time I would justify purposely letting a family member kill them self is if they are bit or otherwise gravely injured and suffering. Just because someone else has given up doesn't mean she should let them. If you truly love them, you should help them, no matter how difficult and painful it may be. Someone might not be strong enough to handle what is going on, but that doesn't mean YOU can't be strong FOR them. That might be a little too much for some people, but I kn… [view original content]
It isn't for my own selfish needs. It would be completely for my brother. MY responsibility as his sibling and someone who loves him is to take care of him and NEVER give up. What he would be choosing is to give up, and you shouldn't give up on family, even if they do.
I think you are missing my point. If someone doesnt want to live and there is no emotions involved in that decision, why wouldnt you let them do it? Theres a difference between giving up and deciding not wanting to live anymore.
that's how much I hated them taking away my option to end my life and how desperate I was to die.
I've tried to explain that the suicide im talking about isnt based on emotions or anything like that, but a conscious decision while being rational. Whats the point of being alive for sake of being alive?
No. If they just let me give up, I don't think I'd be here today. Even through all the shit they had to go through, they never gave up and they helped me lift myself out of something I thought was my own decided fate. And I could never thank them enough for it.
Well its nice that you got through your depression, or what ever you had, but that is completely different than what im talking about. i've helped close friend who had suicidal tendencies and all kind of problems. The fact that she got raped later didnt help either. Eventually she tried to hang herself, but now she is doing decently. Still being taken care of, but its looking better.
It isn't for my own selfish needs. It would be completely for my brother. MY responsibility as his sibling and someone who loves him is to t… moreake care of him and NEVER give up. What he would be choosing is to give up, and you shouldn't give up on family, even if they do.
There was a time where I went out of my way to end my life until I had to be constantly monitored, particularly after I ended up in the hospital. I was so resentful towards the people in my life who were trying to stop me- I'd be violent and downright nasty; that's how much I hated them taking away my option to end my life and how desperate I was to die. But the people who cared about me sacrificed whatever they had and tried whatever they could do to make me fail in killing myself. How dare them, right?
No. If they just let me give up, I don't think I'd be here today. Even through all the shit they had to go through, they never gave up and they helped me lift myself out … [view original content]
I think leaving Jaime on the rooftop was a bad decision. Jane does not have to continue saving her sister, but considering traveling four s… moretates, there was ample time to leave her without putting herself in imminent danger and feeling shitty about it.
I switched my thought about leaving Sarah as well because of previous statement, even though we actually see the imminent threat coming.
Leaving Howe's and killing Troy is good. Jane only give her input after the plan was placed in motion therefore I don't see it as her own decision to opine. Troy is a royal dick and was close enough to the group to kill them all. I surmise that there may have been some bad history between them for Jane to blow his dick off essentially. How she did it is of no consequence to me.
Holding up Arvo & stealing his medicine is good on her and the group. In times of the ZA, morality is blurred. He did not protect himself enough and he got caught sli… [view original content]
I can't see suicide as an unemotional response. Why did Jaime want to kill herself? Probably because she was scared, pessimistic, and sad. Humans are wired towards self-preservation. Suicide is almost always a conscious decision that weighs heavily on one's emotions.
It isn't for my own selfish needs. It would be completely for my brother. MY responsibility as his sibling and someone who loves him is to t… moreake care of him and NEVER give up. What he would be choosing is to give up, and you shouldn't give up on family, even if they do.
I think you are missing my point. If someone doesnt want to live and there is no emotions involved in that decision, why wouldnt you let them do it? Theres a difference between giving up and deciding not wanting to live anymore.
that's how much I hated them taking away my option to end my life and how desperate I was to die.
I've tried to explain that the suicide im talking about isnt based on emotions or anything like that, but a conscious decision while being rational. Whats the point of being alive for sake of being alive?
No. If they just let me give up, I don't think I'd be here today. Even through all the shit they had to go through, they never… [view original content]
Jane's not a true survivor. She's a liabillity. Jane is willing to let people die in so she can survive. But do you know what a true survivor would do?
They should risk their life in order to save another.
Jane's not a true survivor. She's a liabillity. Jane is willing to let people die in so she can survive. But do you know what a true survivor would do?
They should risk their life in order to save another.
She didnt want to live in world like that? I have the same problem with reality. I cant really see how i could enjoy life that long, so i will most likely just kill myself eventually. I find reality rather boring.
I can't see suicide as an unemotional response. Why did Jaime want to kill herself? Probably because she was scared, pessimistic, and sad. H… moreumans are wired towards self-preservation. Suicide is almost always a conscious decision that weighs heavily on one's emotions.
Why did Jaime want to kill herself?
She didnt want to live in world like that? I have the same problem with reality. I cant really s… moreee how i could enjoy life that long, so i will most likely just kill myself eventually. I find reality rather boring.
Well there's still similarities, they both wanted to meet their fate without living with the dead, which goes both ways for if your a Walker or you die.
Well there's still similarities, they both wanted to meet their fate without living with the dead, which goes both ways for if your a Walker or you die.
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Actually, walkers wouldn't be able to get to the baby as they're all frozen due to the cold. I don't think Jane would leave the baby in a protected car if she was just going to let him die
No, I couldn't care less if you like him or not. If you think those names fit you, that's on you. I haven't called you a "hater"or any of those nicknames. You are hating on Kenny, whether rationally or not. Just like I hate on Jane. Why are you being sensitive all of a sudden? Haven't you admitted that you despise him? Haven't you called him Satan? Haven't you called him a piece of shit? You obviously hate him, and it's fine. I don't think you're a hater, I'm stating a fact. ->You hate him.<- That's what "Continue to hate on him" means.
Dude, it's not even about the Larry thing. I know where you're coming from in that perspective. It's some of the other stuff you say that really makes me think it's blind hatred.
Kenny killed Larry because he had a personal vendetta. Prove it.
Kenny doesn't care about Clementine because he killed Carver in front of her. This one is laughable. You decide to stay there and watch knowing for a fact Kenny will not change his mind. It wasn't about Clementine, Sarita, or anyone else. Kenny saw an opportunity to get revenge on the guy who almost killed him and took it. Was it the healthy decision? Probably not, but it has nothing to do with his feelings towards her. Also, how are you okay with Clementine becoming a babykiller but then think watching Carver die is terrible? You're either against brutality, or you're not.
If someone makes decision to not wanting to live, what gives you right to force them to live? If someone wants to kill themselves because of temporary depression, then its ok to stop them, but if someone knowingly makes the decision of not wanting to live, its not up to you to stop them.
Haha I knew you would reply to this xD
If it's my sister, then yes it is. Letting them kill themselves would be giving up with them, and you never give up on family. Making the decision to end one's life is a permanent and reckless choice that can actually be changed with support.
Did you hear the way Luke was talking in the trailer? It didn't sound like Luke at all tbh. He sounded far too aggressive. Kinda OOC.
You speak as if every suicide is based on temporary state of mind (depression etc). If someone simply doesnt want to live anymore, isnt it cruel to force them to live? If someone will tru to stop me from killing myself, i would hate them for the rest of my life.
Do you not support people will terminal illnesses going off to Switzerland? Its pretty similar to committing suicide in the zombie apocalypse, you're going to die soon anyway.
"Haven't I called him Satan?" Are you serious right now, guy? I think you may not be.
Well, you assume Kenny killed Larry to "save his family." Meaning time would be of essence. Why does Kenny, then, choose to not help Lee in the fight with the first St. John brother in the barn? If time is of the essence, would Kenny not want to team up with Lee and help take down Danny(?) faster? He was hiding while Lee was in danger. But chose NOT to participate in bringing the man down. This shows extreme cowardice and disloyalty.
I've explained this though, man. I've explained that if anyone really cared for someone else, he would probably hold back on his macho self-indulgent power fantasies just long enough to realized a young girl were there. Also by that logic, statutory rape is acceptable in certain context's. And why not? If a twelve year old is trying to seduce you that means she must know it's what she wants, right? It's not like she's immature or anything and her mind hasn't progressed far enough to be capable of making that decision. It's the same thing.
Now, let me address real quickly your childish "I couldn't care less" mentality. It's got to stop. You're never going to be willing to accept or address points validly if you're wrapped up in this ridiculous "us versus them" sensibility. It needs to stop, because now I feel no matter how much compiling evidence I stack up against Kenny, you're just going to bounce them back by using "IDGAF."
ThinkForYourself
He was surrounded by walkers and he couldnt carry/talk her to move. Wouldnt you get stressed after few hours of that?
When I convice Jane to save Sarah, I thoug that she would succed and run away and their fate become unknown for coming back in season 3.
You've called him the devil on many occasions. I can't believe you're denying it. Oh well, you clearly lost your cool in your last reply.
Because he did. And, based on what was said and experienced throughout the entire scene, it's much more likely. Are you implying that Kenny's supposed hatred towards Larry was more powerful than his love for Katjaa and Duck? 10/10 for being logical. That has nothing to do with what we're discussing, but you're clearly running out of stones to throw at me so I might as well adress it. Kenny is the type of guy who can be extremely loyal and die for you or a pain in the ass you cannot trust to have your back. There's no justifying Kenny not helping Lee, it's just who he is. In some playthroughs, he feels as if he can't rely on Lee to do what needs to be done which forces him to be the same way towards him. It's the wrong mentality, but Kenny is 50 years old or so. We can't change the way he thinks. Unlike you, I'm not being biased and replying "lolz Lee deserved it urban fuck". Kenny makes mistakes, he's just not the walking error you assume him to be.
What a load of crap. Poor attempt at throwing more shit at Kenny. First of all, comparing the Carver situation with rape is just the lowest you can go in your mission of making Kenny look evil. It's not macho self-indulgent fantasies, he took revenge on someone who had almost killed him. It wasn't like Carver. "I'm strong, you're weak. And fuck you for taking my berries." Also, Kenny pleads Clementine to get out and warns her that it will get messy. After that, if you decide to stay and watch, it's pretty clear that Clementine's hatred for Carver was strongest than preserving whatever innoncence she had left. You'll just keep repeating yourself, so I'll leave this little chat here.
Sarita: "I'm not letting you see this."
Clementine: "It's not your decision"
Funny, cause' I've adressed everything you've said while you skipped an entire reply and only focused on the hater part. Oh, I'm also expecting for your AJ reply. Go on, try to justify being a babykiller after giving a guy shit for killing a dangerous man. We're all waiting.
lol, I clearly hit a nerve. That escalated quickly.
Everything you just said, without exception, is utterly wrong.
There's no justifying Troy hitting Clem either, it just is who he is.
There's no justifying Carver beating Kenny almost to death, it just is who he is.
There's no justifying Benito Mussolini from being an evil tyrant that killed millions, he just is who he is.
And with that, I'm done. You say I "have no more stones to throw" and then make up the flimsiest of arguments even a kindergarten child would cringe at. You're all out of half-assed defenses it would seem.
Good day, sir.
Guys, he skipped another reply after calling me out for doing so and proceeded to insult me because he's out of petty excuses to hate on Kenny. Your AJ reply never came.
"What a fuckin' shocker!"
What's the point of that? There's no justifying any of those actions, like I said. What you're trying to prove now is a mystery. At first, it was Kenny's evil nature, now...damn.
It was nice talking to you! Sorry you got mad.
I read up to the part you said.
And I was drained after that. You should've seen me laughing... It was funny though, so thank you for the humor.
Now, the AJ thing you so adamantly want me to address was about my post, correct?
Edit: If it is, go look there, I've talked to a few very cordial individuals and explained my points. I refuse to go over them again with someone who'll shoot them down because they only see one aspect of a much broader opinion.
I don't know how someone can say that and then proceed to almost entirely ignore the actual points being made.
ClemInTime, Salt has been nothing but reasonable here. I don't know what you're possibly trying to get at. You're being way too defensive.
Look, you're welcome to come back here and continue to get systematically killed once you've calmed down and have something to offer other than baseless insults and unfunny jokes. I've calmly adressed all kinds of garbage just so you don't say "I have no answer". The same can't be said for you. You started yelling and crying out of nowhere.
Meh, you already bailed on this argument. Nice talking to you, bro!
I think leaving Jaime on the rooftop was a bad decision. Jane does not have to continue saving her sister, but considering traveling four states, there was ample time to leave her without putting herself in imminent danger and feeling shitty about it.
I switched my thought about leaving Sarah as well because of previous statement, even though we actually see the imminent threat coming.
Leaving Howe's and killing Troy is good. Jane only give her input after the plan was placed in motion therefore I don't see it as her own decision to opine. Troy is a royal dick and was close enough to the group to kill them all. I surmise that there may have been some bad history between them for Jane to blow his dick off essentially. How she did it is of no consequence to me.
Holding up Arvo & stealing his medicine is good on her and the group. In times of the ZA, morality is blurred. He did not protect himself enough and he got caught slipping, just as he might have done something bad to Clem if Jane was not with her. At that point, he has to give up his goods because he does not have the leverage. Not taking the meds leave several members of your group vulnerable (bad). Taking the meds helps the group (good).
Lying about AJ - good. Kenny needed to be checked on his demeanor and attitude and frankly he was dangerous to Clem, Jane and AJ. It was not the best plan but him showing his aggression on numerous occasions how else was Jane suppose to combat this issue? Arguing was not working and regardless it did show Kenny impulsion to physical aggression.
Belan, he mad. Obviously can't keep up with me.
He hasn't though. He started by saying...
I responded by saying that people need to stop internally implying that being on Kenny's side means "defending" him, while not is "hating on him." It's in bad taste and implies that if you're not with him, you must be against him. I am, but that's hardly the point.
I'm tired of people then flipping things around by saying "I hate on Jane" (which he did not say initially, just that he defends Kenny's crazed actions).
I then give him points and comparisons to which he then reply's saying "what a load of crap" and "I don't care if you like him or not." Obviously not, or else he would try being polite and cordial and not basing my feelings on Kenny with me apparently wanting to "murder a baby." I still don't know where in the hell he pulled that one from.
He didn't "start" by saying that. That statement was in direct response to you saying: "You can continue to defend him and his monstrous actions, but there were well over a hundred ways he could've handled that situation better. His blinded paranoid and hatred for Larry is what was powering his actions in that meat locker and he just used the "he's a threat" as his bait to come off more sympathetic."
One could assume that you were implying that he was blindly defending Kenny there... which is why he turned around and gave the other side of the coin argument. And I mean.. this statement really is irrelevant to the actual points he was making... it was just kind of an aside. I'm not sure how this is a big deal. You have made it clear that you are anti Kenny in essentially every discussion pertaining to him. All the guy was saying was that he was going to stand his ground, and that you were going to stand yours. There really wasn't any reason to get so offended over that, let alone basically ignore everything he said.
It doesn't necessarily imply that at all. You kind of jumped the gun on that point. He was simply talking about your apparent hatred of the character, and where you are personally aligned in these debates. It really wasn't a big deal..
Yeah, he did say that (and maybe he shouldn't have, but you had kind of lost your cool at that point...), but let's not pretend like he just left it at that. He made an entire argument. He didn't just say: "That's a load of crap" and then walk away.
He was simply saying that he wasn't agitated by your personal hatred of the character... he was just talking about where you were aligned in comparison to himself.
He was being perfectly reasonable with you until you decided to give him repeated responses containing hostility. He was maybe a little edgy afterwards, but whatever. You really shouldn't be surprised that someone becomes irritable with you when you openly give up on being civil. It honestly seems like you are more interested in attacking the poster rather than actually attacking the poster's points.
Sorry if I put any words in your mouth there Salt. I'm really bored and have nothing to do with myself right now... so I tried to clarify the misunderstanding a little.
You summed everything up perfectly, lol.
But remember what they say, don't try beating some sense into someone who clearly lost his temper halfway through the argument. He's literally being a Kenny. Ironic.
It's not just any old "someone" I'm talking about though. I'm talking about a sibling. And you don't need to lecture me about depression, I've had plenty of experience dealing with it.
That makes no sense, I was talking about a hypothetical situation in the confines of the zombie apocalypse universe, not about any old situation in real life.
Even if you did want to apply it to my hypothetical scenario, remember that I said:
I don't get why leaving Sarah is so bad it's undebatable, but insulting Kenny's family out of nowhere and trying to kill him to satisfy some form of bloodlust isn't.
I personally would never give up on a family member or friends they could be going through a hard time wanting to kill themselves but I believe everyone can be helped and saved if shown the right path and given the right help
I cant see how thats relevant. If someone wants to die and its not hasty decision, but well thought, then you should let them do it. You shouldnt force others to live for your own selfish needs.
It isn't for my own selfish needs. It would be completely for my brother. MY responsibility as his sibling and someone who loves him is to take care of him and NEVER give up. What he would be choosing is to give up, and you shouldn't give up on family, even if they do.
There was a time where I went out of my way to end my life until I had to be constantly monitored, particularly after I ended up in the hospital. I was so resentful towards the people in my life who were trying to stop me- I'd be violent and downright nasty; that's how much I hated them taking away my option to end my life and how desperate I was to die. But the people who cared about me sacrificed whatever they had and tried whatever they could do to make me fail in killing myself. How dare them, right?
No. If they just let me give up, I don't think I'd be here today. Even through all the shit they had to go through, they never gave up and they helped me lift myself out of something I thought was my own decided fate. And I could never thank them enough for it.
Lol
That was beautiful thank you for the share and thank god your ok :'D
Thanks for your feedback!
I think you are missing my point. If someone doesnt want to live and there is no emotions involved in that decision, why wouldnt you let them do it? Theres a difference between giving up and deciding not wanting to live anymore.
I've tried to explain that the suicide im talking about isnt based on emotions or anything like that, but a conscious decision while being rational. Whats the point of being alive for sake of being alive?
Well its nice that you got through your depression, or what ever you had, but that is completely different than what im talking about. i've helped close friend who had suicidal tendencies and all kind of problems. The fact that she got raped later didnt help either. Eventually she tried to hang herself, but now she is doing decently. Still being taken care of, but its looking better.
Thanks for the feedback!
I can't see suicide as an unemotional response. Why did Jaime want to kill herself? Probably because she was scared, pessimistic, and sad. Humans are wired towards self-preservation. Suicide is almost always a conscious decision that weighs heavily on one's emotions.
Jane's not a true survivor. She's a liabillity. Jane is willing to let people die in so she can survive. But do you know what a true survivor would do?
They should risk their life in order to save another.
I agree with that concept
but there are allot of characters who do both.
She didnt want to live in world like that? I have the same problem with reality. I cant really see how i could enjoy life that long, so i will most likely just kill myself eventually. I find reality rather boring.
Irene wanted to kill herself in Season 1 :c
She was bit and didnt want to turn.
Well there's still similarities, they both wanted to meet their fate without living with the dead, which goes both ways for if your a Walker or you die.
Jamie could have lived, if she wanted to, Irene didnt have a choice. Only thing in common is that they wanted to die.