I don't think that Jane shooting Troy in the dick isn't a bad thing. She saved the lives of the group and got payback since it's heavily implied that something happened prior to the escape. Maybe she knew that troy was a pervert or something, and knew that he thought with his dick. Hell, I think it's equivalent to shooting him in the head if he thinks with his dick.
And Michelle just shot Omid, her boyfriend and father of her unborn child. Hell, I'd shoot that bitch and twice on a Sunday. That's brOmid we're talking about, bitch needs to pay and realize, what goes around, comes around.
I can understand why Christa killed Michelle. Michelle had just murdered her husband/partner and, IRL, a provocation/legitimate homicide defense could possibly be made. In a ZA world it is completely justified, as she couldn't just call the cops.
We should all be grateful to Troy for putting a ding in Carver's door.
Christa acted immorally out of anger and distress.
A spade by any other name will always be a spade.
Nate reveled in the old couple's murder, echoing the words of the psycho that Russell just told him about, grinning as he shot them, and then casually walking over to their supplies and marveling at what a good haul it was. The former acted out of sheer emotional suffering, the latter acted out of a sociopathic indifference.
I never said Nate was innocent. He has done some crazy ass shit. I think i understand why based on my own experiences.
I guess my biggest deal is people rip on Nate for being a monster, and give people like Christa a free pass.
Christa acted immorally… more out of anger and distress. Not even turning to look at Michelle because she was still so distraught at her dead husband lying on the ground. Nate reveled in the old couple's murder, echoing the words of the psycho that Russell just told him about, grinning as he shot them, and then casually walking over to their supplies and marveling at what a good haul it was. The former acted out of sheer emotional suffering, the latter acted out of a sociopathic indifference.
I always felt bad for Michelle anyway, because it was obvious she was just a kid playing tough thinking it was how she'd survive in the worl… mored and it was clear she had never murdered someone before judging by her panicked reaction after shooting Omid. I hate that she killed him, but I don't hate her guts and wish her to burn in hell forever or whatnot.
I feel like Michelle was a parallel to someone Clementine could have been, or may become someday. Maybe she was like Clementine at one point and had people looking out for her, but whoever those people may have been are probably dead now and she's on her own. Perhaps they even taught her to act the way she did when she was going through Clem's stuff...I think about the possibilities to her backstory a lot.
Troy consciously chose to abuse little kids, justifying it as part of his job but nonetheless taking pleasure in it. He's a coward and a weakling.
how do you know he wasn't forced into it like everyone else? Do you know his history? Please share, if you do. If you got information i don't know, please.
Christa took care of a little girl for over a year, and has no qualms with killing a helpless unarmed child who made a mistake. She's a killer.
Fixed.
Fuck these moral relativists. Particularly those who think it's okay for men to abuse little girls.
I like how you take shots at me every chance you get. Its cute. I bet your one of those democrats when start losing the race, Scream Race Card.
Troy consciously chose to abuse little kids, justifying it as part of his job but nonetheless taking pleasure in it. He's a coward and a we… moreakling.
Christa took care of a little girl for over a year, and has no qualms with killing people who murdered her loved ones. She's a strong woman.
Fuck these moral relativists. Particularly those who think it's okay for men to abuse little girls.
I can understand why Christa killed Michelle. Michelle had just murdered her husband/partner and, IRL, a provocation/legitimate homicide def… moreense could possibly be made. In a ZA world it is completely justified, as she couldn't just call the cops.
We should all be grateful to Troy for putting a ding in Carver's door.
The difference is that Nate seemingly liked doing crazy ass shit. If someone steals a loaf of bread because they were starving, they've done something wrong, yes, but they did so for sympathetic reasons and thus seem more worthy of forgiveness. If someone steals a loaf of bread because stealing bread is fun and they're bored, that much less sympathetic and thus seems more worthy of condemnation.
Christa acted immorally out of anger and distress.
A spade by any other name will always be a spade.
Nate reveled in the old c… moreouple's murder, echoing the words of the psycho that Russell just told him about, grinning as he shot them, and then casually walking over to their supplies and marveling at what a good haul it was. The former acted out of sheer emotional suffering, the latter acted out of a sociopathic indifference.
I never said Nate was innocent. He has done some crazy ass shit. I think i understand why based on my own experiences.
He saved Clementine's life just so he could beat on her some more, and he knew Carver would probably be pissed if he let her get killed. He was nearly lulled into joining the group on their escape purely because of Jane offering sex and happily forced people into labour against their will. That's how I see it anyway.
I see it differently. I see him in a similar situation of the cabin group, where he was beaten, treated like shit for months until he finally became part of the Carver's group. Remember all the cabin group were originally members of this group. So they possibly acted "Carverish" perhaps to Troy. Maybe they didn't treat him well.
When you you live in a abusive environment, it changes the person you are. I don't believe Troy was a abusive person in his heart, i think he may of done something, but deep down he regrets doing what he does, he justifies it because he was treated like crap, now its their turn. Think of it like hazing.
I think the primary difference is that Troy voluntarily acted as a madman's henchman and seemed to take pleasure in beating little girls, ev… moreen making a weird almost paedophilic comment at the beginning of In Harm's Way. He saved Clementine's life just so he could beat on her some more, and he knew Carver would probably be pissed if he let her get killed. He was nearly lulled into joining the group on their escape purely because of Jane offering sex and happily forced people into labour against their will. That's how I see it anyway.
Christa made a primal, instinctive move after seeing her closest loved one gunned down before her. It wasn't right but it doesn't really compare to the likes of Troy's actions.
I personally think Nate was traumatized when Eddie shot and killed his friend. I think it messed him up bad. After that, Nate pulls into the gas station with Russel, the old people open fire. You can tell that this angered Nate, because his eyes fix and go wide when he says "Those fuckers shot at us!."
How did you think it was going to end? The old people were both shot, and Nate isn't exactly stable.
The difference is that Nate seemingly liked doing crazy ass shit. If someone steals a loaf of bread because they were starving, they've done… more something wrong, yes, but they did so for sympathetic reasons and thus seem more worthy of forgiveness. If someone steals a loaf of bread because stealing bread is fun and they're bored, that much less sympathetic and thus seems more worthy of condemnation.
I'd really like to sometime...but real life gets in the way of the things I actually enjoy doing. I'm already working on an Arvo one and that's going to take forever, I feel like there isn't enough time in the world for me to write all the fics that I want to.
Michelle already dropped her Gun and was surrendering and there was no reason to kill her, so Christa was just a murderer.
Jane shot Troy because he was a threat to her and others. You can hardly compare these two.
how do you know he wasn't forced into it like everyone else?
I can see someone make an argument for how Carver's followers saw his group as their only choice for survival, but I don't recall anyone ever ordering Troy to hit Clementine... Hell, none of his group were even watching in one of the instances where he hits her.
Troy consciously chose to abuse little kids, justifying it as part of his job but nonetheless taking pleasure in it. He's a coward and a wea… morekling.
how do you know he wasn't forced into it like everyone else? Do you know his history? Please share, if you do. If you got information i don't know, please.
Christa took care of a little girl for over a year, and has no qualms with killing a helpless unarmed child who made a mistake. She's a killer.
Fixed.
Fuck these moral relativists. Particularly those who think it's okay for men to abuse little girls.
I like how you take shots at me every chance you get. Its cute. I bet your one of those democrats when start losing the race, Scream Race Card.
I'm still laughing about Louisiana.
how do you know he wasn't forced into it like everyone else?
I can see someone make an argument for how Carver's followers saw his g… moreroup as their only choice for survival, but I don't recall anyone ever ordering Troy to hit Clementine... Hell, none of his group were even watching in one of the instances where he hits her.
I'd really like to sometime...but real life gets in the way of the things I actually enjoy doing. I'm already working on an Arvo one and tha… moret's going to take forever, I feel like there isn't enough time in the world for me to write all the fics that I want to.
You could argue that killing Carver would have been the 'right' thing to do. He was one who hurt countless others, and if left unchecked, would definitely have hurt many more
I find this statement interesting. I think if someone would of taken the time to talk to Carver, treat him with love instead of hate i think his behavior would have changed. You can't fight hate with hate. You can only fight hate with love.
You could argue that killing Carver would have been the 'right' thing to do. He was one who hurt countless others, and if left unchecked, wo… moreuld definitely have hurt many more. If they let him go, who's to say he won't escape, start another camp, and turn it into another dictatorship, with another set of victims locked up in a pen just like the Cabin group? I don't like killing characters, and if given the choice, I would save almost everyone from the series from death if I could (even people like Troy, if they were willing to change, There are even fanfics available which depict him surviving and joining the main group).
But, sadly, occasionally, paraphrasing Lee, you just have to hurt someone else to protect the ones you care about. I don't like the quote, I wish it weren't true, but what about people like Carver? You can't just lock him away unfortunately.
As far as I know, Nate was much more prone to violence and would have been far more likely to act out and hurt others. He was more malicious by nature, thus people give him the cold shoulder.
This argument might work if Nate and Christa had the same amount of screen time. Nate's identity was based on two incidents that were bad. Imagine this, the only thing you know about Lee is that he killed a state Senator. Your feelings might change don't you think.
I'm not familiar with 400 days, so what did Nate do that made him so horrible?
From what I've read from the wiki, Nate was an unpredictab… morele individual. Warm for a second, convoluted and murderous in the next. He was unstable, and a potential danger to whoever he met.
I think one of the reasons why most give Christa a free pass is because she is not normally an unstable person. Nor a cold killer. She was grieving hard, and acted out in a moment of passion. She wouldn't take pleasure in wanton killing, unlike some other characters. Afterwards she still took care of Clementine, despite her resentment (possibly) towards her. Plus, the person Christa killed isn't exactly know to be much of a nice person. What Christa did may not have been right, but can be forgiven, given the circumstances.
As far as I know, Nate was much more prone to violence and would have been far more likely to act out and hurt others. He was more malicious by nature, thus people give him the cold shoulder.
I've seen two main interpretations of Arvo. The first is that he's a traumatized screw-up coward, kind of how people thought of Ben in S1. The second is more like how you describe him, a manipulative genius. I want to take both of those interpretations into account and make sort of a mix of the two. But there is so much to consider, I'm still in an early planning stage. The chance of me actually publishing anything seems very slim at this point in time.
There's no evidence either way. But even if Troy had been mistreated by the group, it doesn't justify him turning it around on other people. Especially children who can't fight back for fear of being shot...
Comments
You kill him to stop him from hurting others. You can't just lock him up these days.
I don't think that Jane shooting Troy in the dick isn't a bad thing. She saved the lives of the group and got payback since it's heavily implied that something happened prior to the escape. Maybe she knew that troy was a pervert or something, and knew that he thought with his dick. Hell, I think it's equivalent to shooting him in the head if he thinks with his dick.
And Michelle just shot Omid, her boyfriend and father of her unborn child. Hell, I'd shoot that bitch and twice on a Sunday. That's brOmid we're talking about, bitch needs to pay and realize, what goes around, comes around.
Troy consciously chose to abuse little kids, justifying it as part of his job but nonetheless taking pleasure in it. He's a coward and a weakling.
Christa took care of a little girl for over a year, and has no qualms with killing people who murdered her loved ones. She's a strong woman.
Fuck these moral relativists. Particularly those who think it's okay for men to abuse little girls.
Michelle already dropped her Gun and was surrendering and there was no reason to kill her, so Christa was just a murderer.
Jane shot Troy because he was a threat to her and others. You can hardly compare these two.
I can understand why Christa killed Michelle. Michelle had just murdered her husband/partner and, IRL, a provocation/legitimate homicide defense could possibly be made. In a ZA world it is completely justified, as she couldn't just call the cops.
We should all be grateful to Troy for putting a ding in Carver's door.
Here's why...
Because
FUCKTROY
A spade by any other name will always be a spade.
I never said Nate was innocent. He has done some crazy ass shit. I think i understand why based on my own experiences.
Someone should write a sympathetic fan fiction for Michelle.
how do you know he wasn't forced into it like everyone else? Do you know his history? Please share, if you do. If you got information i don't know, please.
Fixed.
I like how you take shots at me every chance you get. Its cute. I bet your one of those democrats when start losing the race, Scream Race Card.
I'm still laughing about Louisiana.
I'm with Lee, and i still think Killing is wrong no matter what. You can't justify killing someone no matter who they are.
Then you are no better than they are.
The difference is that Nate seemingly liked doing crazy ass shit. If someone steals a loaf of bread because they were starving, they've done something wrong, yes, but they did so for sympathetic reasons and thus seem more worthy of forgiveness. If someone steals a loaf of bread because stealing bread is fun and they're bored, that much less sympathetic and thus seems more worthy of condemnation.
I see it differently. I see him in a similar situation of the cabin group, where he was beaten, treated like shit for months until he finally became part of the Carver's group. Remember all the cabin group were originally members of this group. So they possibly acted "Carverish" perhaps to Troy. Maybe they didn't treat him well.
When you you live in a abusive environment, it changes the person you are. I don't believe Troy was a abusive person in his heart, i think he may of done something, but deep down he regrets doing what he does, he justifies it because he was treated like crap, now its their turn. Think of it like hazing.
I personally think Nate was traumatized when Eddie shot and killed his friend. I think it messed him up bad. After that, Nate pulls into the gas station with Russel, the old people open fire. You can tell that this angered Nate, because his eyes fix and go wide when he says "Those fuckers shot at us!."
How did you think it was going to end? The old people were both shot, and Nate isn't exactly stable.
I'd really like to sometime...but real life gets in the way of the things I actually enjoy doing. I'm already working on an Arvo one and that's going to take forever, I feel like there isn't enough time in the world for me to write all the fics that I want to.
For once i actually agree with you.
I can see someone make an argument for how Carver's followers saw his group as their only choice for survival, but I don't recall anyone ever ordering Troy to hit Clementine... Hell, none of his group were even watching in one of the instances where he hits her.
We can only assume that Troy had to go through the same initiation as the others. So i'm sure he was mistreated when he was slave status.
May i ask how are you writing Arvo's character. In my mind he was a very intelligent, manipulative person. Who could read people and react fast.
I find this statement interesting. I think if someone would of taken the time to talk to Carver, treat him with love instead of hate i think his behavior would have changed. You can't fight hate with hate. You can only fight hate with love.
This argument might work if Nate and Christa had the same amount of screen time. Nate's identity was based on two incidents that were bad. Imagine this, the only thing you know about Lee is that he killed a state Senator. Your feelings might change don't you think.
I've seen two main interpretations of Arvo. The first is that he's a traumatized screw-up coward, kind of how people thought of Ben in S1. The second is more like how you describe him, a manipulative genius. I want to take both of those interpretations into account and make sort of a mix of the two. But there is so much to consider, I'm still in an early planning stage. The chance of me actually publishing anything seems very slim at this point in time.
There's no evidence either way. But even if Troy had been mistreated by the group, it doesn't justify him turning it around on other people. Especially children who can't fight back for fear of being shot...