As Clementine, he protected her and AJ, with everything he had. What really showed me how much he cared, was when he pleaded that Clementine and Alvie be allowed sanctuary in Wellington, even if that meant he wouldn't be allowed to go in himself.
Well you are rather delusional if you think there ever was a spot in wellington for Kenny. He also put Clem in danger constantly so i dont see how he was such great company for her.
If Alvin got killed at the lodge, in episode 5, while cleaning his wound; Kenny felt himself to blame, and wished he had given up before Carver shot Alvin.
He is sorry, but he doesnt change the way he behaves. Not really the best way to live.
Personally, I strive to look for the good in others, which is a lesson I strive to apply in my everyday life. Which doesn't mean you ignore people's bad traits. But what it simply means is, you choose to focus on their good ones.
Well i cant ignore the bad sides when someones life is at stake.
What I described, was my experience with Kenny.
As Lee, though I had his back when things were tough, which doesn't mean I agreed with ev… moreerything he said, when Clementine went missing, Kenny jumped at the chance to help look for her.
Nobody else in the group came to help.
As Clementine, he protected her and AJ, with everything he had.
What really showed me how much he cared, was when he pleaded that Clementine and Alvie be allowed sanctuary in Wellington, even if that meant he wouldn't be allowed to go in himself.
Even back in Season 1, at the motor-inn, Kenny prefered to have the kids eat; instead of him.
In contrast with Larry, who acted like a child when the food was exhausted.
Kenny displayed a strong degree of selflessness in many respects.
If Alvin got killed at the lodge, in episode 5, while cleaning his wound; Kenny felt himself to blame, and wished he had given up before Carver shot Alvin.
Personally, I strive to l… [view original content]
I'm delusional?
What does that make you?
No offense, but you really need to work on your people skills.
For example, you might get a better response from others if you would act with a little more tact, and refrain from rude insults.
As Clementine, he protected her and AJ, with everything he had. What really showed me how much he cared, was when he pleaded that Clementine… more and Alvie be allowed sanctuary in Wellington, even if that meant he wouldn't be allowed to go in himself.
Well you are rather delusional if you think there ever was a spot in wellington for Kenny. He also put Clem in danger constantly so i dont see how he was such great company for her.
If Alvin got killed at the lodge, in episode 5, while cleaning his wound; Kenny felt himself to blame, and wished he had given up before Carver shot Alvin.
He is sorry, but he doesnt change the way he behaves. Not really the best way to live.
Personally, I strive to look for the good in others, which is a lesson I strive to apply in my everyday life. Which doesn't mean you ignore people's bad traits. But what it simply means is, you choose to focus on their good ones.
Well i cant ignore the bad sides when someones life is at stake.
why is it that all you ever do on these forums now is try to make people hate kenny. Every time someone says something good about kenny you … morerespond with an extremely negative statement. And to be frank, he never hated anyone or disliked anyone, he was neutral towards anyone in the group who wasnt his family or clem, even if he didnt truly care for them (though he did care for MY lee). Hell, he didnt even HATE lily
Exactly my point.
I was speaking from a personal perspective.
And for that, I get insulted.
This guy has really got it out for Kenny.
If this guy doesn't like Kenny, that's his problem.
But he doesn't have to tear down the character, everytime someone mentions they like him, and why.
Nor does he have to insult those of us that do like Kenny.
why is it that all you ever do on these forums now is try to make people hate kenny. Every time someone says something good about kenny you … morerespond with an extremely negative statement. And to be frank, he never hated anyone or disliked anyone, he was neutral towards anyone in the group who wasnt his family or clem, even if he didnt truly care for them (though he did care for MY lee). Hell, he didnt even HATE lily
Kenny loyalist, I am not. I let him leave Clem at Wellington cause he was a danger to himself and others, but he redeemed himself in the end.
They're anything but identical. I have my doubts as to whether Lilly would have killed Ben if he had owned up to his mistake. Doug saved him from that fate, and Carley... don't even get me started. Lilly's actions were either unprovoked (Doug) or an extreme reaction (Carley)
Kenny's actions were provoked and Jane engineered the situation so Kenny would react. Saw right through that illusion when she said "you're gonna see who he really is". That backfired, Jane got killed. It was a stupid move and it proved so when I didn't interfere.
Fair enough, Lilly was also grieving for the loss of her father, but her actions were horrible and unnecessary. She would have a serious job on her hands to get me to forgive her.
Could you focus on the actual message? What makes you think Kenny ever had a spot? Only reason they let anyone in was because it was only a kid and baby who were coming in.
I'm delusional?
What does that make you?
No offense, but you really need to work on your people skills.
For example, you might get a better response from others if you would act with a little more tact, and refrain from rude insults.
Nevertheless, you still don't have to be rude.
If you wanna make a point, you don't have to insult others.
In fact, doing so, will not help make your point at all.
All it's going to do, is make people not want to talk to you, nor want to be around you.
Could you focus on the actual message? What makes you think Kenny ever had a spot? Only reason they let anyone in was because it was only a kid and baby who were coming in.
Nevertheless, you still don't have to be rude.
If you wanna make a point, you don't have to insult others.
In fact, doing so, will not hel… morep make your point at all.
All it's going to do, is make people not want to talk to you, nor want to be around you.
What I described, was my experience with Kenny.
As Lee, though I had his back when things were tough, which doesn't mean I agreed with ev… moreerything he said, when Clementine went missing, Kenny jumped at the chance to help look for her.
Nobody else in the group came to help.
As Clementine, he protected her and AJ, with everything he had.
What really showed me how much he cared, was when he pleaded that Clementine and Alvie be allowed sanctuary in Wellington, even if that meant he wouldn't be allowed to go in himself.
Even back in Season 1, at the motor-inn, Kenny prefered to have the kids eat; instead of him.
In contrast with Larry, who acted like a child when the food was exhausted.
Kenny displayed a strong degree of selflessness in many respects.
If Alvin got killed at the lodge, in episode 5, while cleaning his wound; Kenny felt himself to blame, and wished he had given up before Carver shot Alvin.
Personally, I strive to l… [view original content]
After savagely murdering a father in cold blood in front of his daughter and a eight year old, he continued to bash heads with the grieving daughter. So, no, he wasn't on "neutral terms" with people nor did he "not HATE Lily."
And coming from someone who carries grudges so strongly. I find it funny he was angry with the way Lily saw him after he, again, murdered her father not but four inches from her. A truly great man.
why is it that all you ever do on these forums now is try to make people hate kenny. Every time someone says something good about kenny you … morerespond with an extremely negative statement. And to be frank, he never hated anyone or disliked anyone, he was neutral towards anyone in the group who wasnt his family or clem, even if he didnt truly care for them (though he did care for MY lee). Hell, he didnt even HATE lily
Murdering her dad ? You cant kill whats dead, given his heart stopped, wasnt breathing and no pulse. All of those stop and the reanimation process starts.
Well, that's a lie. Isn't it?
After savagely murdering a father in cold blood in front of his daughter and a eight year old, he continued… more to bash heads with the grieving daughter. So, no, he wasn't on "neutral terms" with people nor did he "not HATE Lily."
And coming from someone who carries grudges so strongly. I find it funny he was angry with the way Lily saw him after he, again, murdered her father not but four inches from her. A truly great man.
While both Carley and Ben weren't perceived as murderers, understand that everything that happened to Lilly was a build-up. It happened over time. From the moment, Glenn and Carley opened up the pharmacy, to the moment they lost the motor inn, there was only so much she could take before she snapped. In Lilly's point of view, "Stealing from the group is like murder. What if Clementine needs medicine and we don't have it?" This was after Larry died. She prioritized the group's safety and Clementine as her top priorities. Stealing from the group was like killing someone to her. Let's get something straight. Ben was to blame. Carley just got in the way by calling the unstable girl who she knew was losing it "a bitch. A scared little girl." and telling her to "Take a page from Lee's book and try helping someone for once." From Lilly's point of view, she was doing everything she could to the best of her ability to keep the group alive and no one agreed with what she was doing and how she was doing it. She felt alone.
Both the Lilly situation and the Kenny/Jane situation can be understandable depending on how you choose to look at it. That's just one part of the grisly beauty that is TellTale Games: The Walking Dead.
Lilly wasn't dealing with anything of that magnitude?
She wasn't. Not literally. I'm not talking about things that were weighing on … moreher sanity. Obviously she had a lot on her mind, but that doesn't really matter. I was talking about what situation she was actually physically dealing with at the time that she shot Carley. "Lilly wasn't dealing with any sort of direct danger, nor was she dealing with anything on the magnitude of a perceived child murderer. She was in the middle of reasonable/rational discussion and decided to pop someone just because she was pissed off that she wasn't getting her way.". Neither Carley nor Ben were murderers, or anyone she was even suspecting of murder. They weren't perceived as dangerous in a direct sense. They hadn't directly wronged Lilly in any way. Certainly not to the extent that Kenny had felt like he was wronged by Jane. His response was a realistic response to thinking someone had murdered "his"… [view original content]
So given the context Kenny's murder is more understandable?
That may be the case to you but before he attacks Jane, she tries to explain that it was an accident, she even sheathed her knife and was willing to walk away before he attacks her, but he still tries to murder her and the point of the matter is yes the situations were different but Lilly pulled the trigger and that was that, Kenny (both him and Jane actually) had a lot of opportunities to stop and took none of them even though Clementine was begging them to stop, in my eyes that's way worse, both had the same reaction but Lilly had no chance to back away once she did what she did so it's harder to tell if she would have stopped, while Kenny could have stopped at any time but didn't, so both things are pretty awful in their own right.
As for the whole baby killer thing, I understand what he was feeling, but like I said he had several opportunities to walk away and didn't so I can't excuse or forgive him, I can empathize and understand but not justify or forgive, and before you say something about being in the heat of the moment I know exactly what it's like to be that angry and to do something like that and I know I stopped and walk away even though I didn't want to and everything in my head told me that I had to, why? Because killing that person would have hurt the people I was trying to protect and that was more important than doing what I wanted and killing that bastard, and for Kenny is worse and more unforgivable because he had that important person there telling him to stop and didn't, while all I did was think about how much I would hurt her and that was enough to make me put the stupid knife down, Kenny should have stopped and he is a worthless piece of shit because he didn't, at least Lilly had the excuse that once she pulled the trigger there was no going back.
Lilly wasn't dealing with anything of that magnitude?
She wasn't. Not literally. I'm not talking about things that were weighing on … moreher sanity. Obviously she had a lot on her mind, but that doesn't really matter. I was talking about what situation she was actually physically dealing with at the time that she shot Carley. "Lilly wasn't dealing with any sort of direct danger, nor was she dealing with anything on the magnitude of a perceived child murderer. She was in the middle of reasonable/rational discussion and decided to pop someone just because she was pissed off that she wasn't getting her way.". Neither Carley nor Ben were murderers, or anyone she was even suspecting of murder. They weren't perceived as dangerous in a direct sense. They hadn't directly wronged Lilly in any way. Certainly not to the extent that Kenny had felt like he was wronged by Jane. His response was a realistic response to thinking someone had murdered "his"… [view original content]
So given the context Kenny's murder is more understandable?
Umm... sure. Like, I'm not even trying to justify what he did, only explaining that there is no direct comparison to what Lilly did. Seriously, that's it.
That may be the case to you but before he attacks Jane, she tries to explain that it was an accident, she even sheathed her knife and was willing to walk away before he attacks her, but he still tries to murder her and the point of the matter is yes the situations were different but Lilly pulled the trigger and that was that, Kenny (both him and Jane actually) had a lot of opportunities to stop and took none of them even though Clementine was begging them to stop, in my eyes that's way worse, both had the same reaction but Lilly had no chance to back away once she did what she did so it's harder to tell if she would have stopped, while Kenny could have stopped at any time but didn't, so both things are pretty awful in their own right.
I highly disagree with you on a number of those things, but what does this have to do with equating Kenny's actions to Lilly's actions anyway? This is entirely a different discussion. I have been down this road many, many times, and I don't particularly feel like explaining it when it's largely irrelevant to the point I was making. I'm only telling you that there isn't reason to think that just because someone wants to indict Lilly for what she did, that doesn't mean they also need to indict Kenny. The situations are not the same; that's all I'm arguing here.
As for the whole baby killer thing, I understand what he was feeling, but like I said he had several opportunities to walk away and didn't so I can't excuse or forgive him, I can empathize and understand but not justify or forgive, and before you say something about being in the heat of the moment I know exactly what it's like to be that angry and to do something like that and I know I stopped and walk away even though I didn't want to and everything in my head told me that I had to, why? Because killing that person would have hurt the people I was trying to protect and that was more important than doing what I wanted and killing that bastard, and for Kenny is worse and more unforgivable because he had that important person there telling him to stop and didn't, while all I did was think about how much I would hurt her and that was enough to make me put the stupid knife down, Kenny should have stopped and he is a worthless piece of shit because he didn't, at least Lilly had the excuse that once she pulled the trigger there was no going back.
Again, not sure you're understanding the point of all of this. I wasn't justifying any individual actions, I was only saying that they are not equatable to Lilly's. You're kind of going off on a tangent here.
So given the context Kenny's murder is more understandable?
That may be the case to you but before he attacks Jane, she tries to explain … morethat it was an accident, she even sheathed her knife and was willing to walk away before he attacks her, but he still tries to murder her and the point of the matter is yes the situations were different but Lilly pulled the trigger and that was that, Kenny (both him and Jane actually) had a lot of opportunities to stop and took none of them even though Clementine was begging them to stop, in my eyes that's way worse, both had the same reaction but Lilly had no chance to back away once she did what she did so it's harder to tell if she would have stopped, while Kenny could have stopped at any time but didn't, so both things are pretty awful in their own right.
As for the whole baby killer thing, I understand what he was feeling, but like I said he had several opportunities to walk away and didn't so I c… [view original content]
While both Carley and Ben weren't perceived as murderers, understand that everything that happened to Lilly was a build-up. It happened over time. From the moment, Glenn and Carley opened up the pharmacy, to the moment they lost the motor inn, there was only so much she could take before she snapped.
I understand that. This does nothing to equalize the two events. Just because Kenny and Lilly were both going through emotional issues and both had a violent reaction to a given situation doesn't mean it's logical to act like the situations are the same.
In Lilly's point of view, "Stealing from the group is like murder. What if Clementine needs medicine and we don't have it?" This was after Larry died. She prioritized the group's safety and Clementine as her top priorities. Stealing from the group was like killing someone to her.
First of all, I'd just like to say that Lilly's POV in regards to that was pretty ridiculous. Decreasing someone's potential for survival =/= actually straight up directly and intentionally murdering someone. It's not the same thing at all. At the point that Lilly murders Carley/Ben, no one in the group is dead or perceived to be dead. So again, there really isn't any comparison at all to Jane showing up and telling Kenny that she got "his" baby killed (accident or no accident). Attacking someone because you think they murdered your baby is not equal to killing someone because they A) pissed you off and may have been part of a selfish scheme that hurt group potentiality for survival.
Carley just got in the way by calling the unstable girl who she knew was losing it "a bitch. A scared little girl." and telling her to "Take a page from Lee's book and try helping someone for once." From Lilly's point of view, she was doing everything she could to the best of her ability to keep the group alive and no one agreed with what she was doing and how she was doing it. She felt alone.
What's your point? I understand that Lilly felt alone, and that she was coming unhinged. As I explained above, this doesn't equalize the two situations.
Both the Lilly situation and the Kenny/Jane situation can be understandable depending on how you choose to look at it. That's just one part of the grisly beauty that is TellTale Games: The Walking Dead.
"One can reasonably think that the Kenny situation is forgivable/understandable, while on the other hand not forgiving Lilly for her actions regarding Carley/Doug."
That's all I have been arguing here. There is no direct comparison to be made, so arguing that someone who chooses not to give Lilly a pass for her actions must also not give Kenny a pass for his own is illogical.
While both Carley and Ben weren't perceived as murderers, understand that everything that happened to Lilly was a build-up. It happened over… more time. From the moment, Glenn and Carley opened up the pharmacy, to the moment they lost the motor inn, there was only so much she could take before she snapped. In Lilly's point of view, "Stealing from the group is like murder. What if Clementine needs medicine and we don't have it?" This was after Larry died. She prioritized the group's safety and Clementine as her top priorities. Stealing from the group was like killing someone to her. Let's get something straight. Ben was to blame. Carley just got in the way by calling the unstable girl who she knew was losing it "a bitch. A scared little girl." and telling her to "Take a page from Lee's book and try helping someone for once." From Lilly's point of view, she was doing everything she could to the best of her ability to keep the group alive and no one a… [view original content]
So given the context Kenny's murder is more understandable?
Umm... sure. Like, I'm not even trying to justify what he did, only expl… moreaining that there is no direct comparison to what Lilly did. Seriously, that's it.
That may be the case to you but before he attacks Jane, she tries to explain that it was an accident, she even sheathed her knife and was willing to walk away before he attacks her, but he still tries to murder her and the point of the matter is yes the situations were different but Lilly pulled the trigger and that was that, Kenny (both him and Jane actually) had a lot of opportunities to stop and took none of them even though Clementine was begging them to stop, in my eyes that's way worse, both had the same reaction but Lilly had no chance to back away once she did what she did so it's harder to tell if she would have stopped, while Kenny could have stopped at any time but didn't, so both things are pretty awful in… [view original content]
Murdering her dad ? You cant kill whats dead, given his heart stopped, wasnt breathing and no pulse. All of those stop and the reanimation process starts.
No. Lilly killed an innocent person because she got her panties in a twist when someone was criticizing her for her rash actions. Kenny killed Jane because not only was she an active threat to his life, she purposely implied that she let a baby get killed. Neither are in the right, but Kenny's situation is more understandable given the circumstances.
1) Jane didn't initiate the fight (on purpose), as she knew she wouldn't have to; Kenny charged her, after she put up her knife and backed away. He was the only active danger, and Jane knew it.
2) Kenny didn't know that Jane faked AJ's death; we did. She said that it was an accident, which was perfectly understandable, and possible, given 1) walkers were roaming the area and 2) they were in a damn blinding blizzard. Kenny, however, didn't care was going to kill her regardless because he was flipping his shit now that AJ was "dead" (as expected).
3) If Kenny had not gone homicidal, then he would've proved Jane wrong about him, and he would've been in the right. Jane would've then gone to get AJ, because she's not cruel enough to leave the baby out there any longer than has has to. However, that didn't happen, because what Jane said would happen happened; Kenny didn't care if it was an accident, or not, was out for blood from a person visually backed down from the fight before he charged her.
So yeah, Kenny and Lilly are both as bad. Let's not forget that Kenny smashed Larry's head in front of Lilly, not even giving him chance (people have come back after not breathing for a few seconds, like Larry), and showed NO remorse, or tried to better his relationship with her at all. Yes there was a timeskip, but seeing how Kenny acts towards everybody after that scene, throughout both games, we know for damn sure he didn't.
No. Lilly killed an innocent person because she got her panties in a twist when someone was criticizing her for her rash actions. Kenny kill… moreed Jane because not only was she an active threat to his life, she purposely implied that she let a baby get killed. Neither are in the right, but Kenny's situation is more understandable given the circumstances.
I like the way you said this.
You expressed the situation very well, as well as your thoughts on it.
The ability to express oneself well is actually a talent, that takes time and work to master.
And from other comments of your's that I've ever read, I can tell that you are quite gifted; in being able to express yourself clearly, and logically.
My compliments!
No. Lilly killed an innocent person because she got her panties in a twist when someone was criticizing her for her rash actions. Kenny kill… moreed Jane because not only was she an active threat to his life, she purposely implied that she let a baby get killed. Neither are in the right, but Kenny's situation is more understandable given the circumstances.
I try my best XD. When I want to create an opinion of something, I try to look at all the facts before I make any judgments. Kenny had plenty of chances to prove Jane wrong, including before the blizzard scene, but he failed every time. I get that he's been thru shit, but so has Jane, Clem, and the other characters, like Nick, and Walter (depending on us, of course lol), but they didn't end up like he did.
Also, don't take this as me hating on Kenny. I actually love his flawed character, and I was pissed that I wasn't given the option to shot/stab his head to prevent him from turning.
I like the way you said this.
You expressed the situation very well, as well as your thoughts on it.
The ability to express oneself well i… mores actually a talent, that takes time and work to master.
And from other comments of your's that I've ever read, I can tell that you are quite gifted; in being able to express yourself clearly, and logically.
My compliments!
She implied Alvie was dead, cause she knew how Kenny would react.
It was all part of a plan she had, to provoke Kenny into attacking her.
If you tell her to back off, instead of getting in between them, she says: "No way, it's time put this crusty piece of shift out of his misery."
She never wanted that baby around.
And her attitude was: "Everyone is expendable. As long as I survive, that's all that counts."
She did seem to have an attachment to Clementine, but beyond that, she didn't seem to be able to connect with anyone else, preferring to mainly be on her own.
Jane demonstrated the characteristics of a sociopath, as they do have the ability to actually bond with a specific individual, but not with a people in general, and for the most part tend to isolate themselves from others.
And they generally have no regard for the rights of others.
Not really.
1) Jane didn't initiate the fight (on purpose), as she knew she wouldn't have to; Kenny charged her, after she put up her kni… morefe and backed away. He was the only active danger, and Jane knew it.
2) Kenny didn't know that Jane faked AJ's death; we did. She said that it was an accident, which was perfectly understandable, and possible, given 1) walkers were roaming the area and 2) they were in a damn blinding blizzard. Kenny, however, didn't care was going to kill her regardless because he was flipping his shit now that AJ was "dead" (as expected).
3) If Kenny had not gone homicidal, then he would've proved Jane wrong about him, and he would've been in the right. Jane would've then gone to get AJ, because she's not cruel enough to leave the baby out there any longer than has has to. However, that didn't happen, because what Jane said would happen happened; Kenny didn't care if it was an accident, or not, was out for blood fr… [view original content]
Well Larry starts breathing if you help Lilly, and I don't think he was turning since his skin wasn't grey like nosy other infected people. I'm not an expert on heart attacks lol and Lilly probably did it because she was panicking and couldn't do anything else
CPR doesnt fix heartattacks. He was not breathing, he had no pulse. As soon as those stop the reanimation process starts. Kenny didnt kill Larry given he was already dead.
Jane was not a sociopath for simple fact that she felt remorse for her actions, even if she didn't regret doing them. A sociopath doesn't put herself in danger several times for people she doesn't care about, or go out of their way to devise the endgame scheme she did, even if it cost her her life, for someone that may not agree with their actions. Why would she care about her sister's passing, or compare Jaime to Sarah, if she didn't care? She even felt bad for killing that asshole Russian guy. She gives Clem the nail file to remember her by.
She's says that, but still put up her weapon and backed away; and let's not forget that Kenny already say he was going to kill her then, and before while the were in the truck.
Jane never casually just sacrificed others, even if she wanted to leave. She could've ran when the walkers attacked the gift shop, but didn't. He'll she could've left after Clem left her to unlock the gift shop.
Jane is against the baby because 1) having a bay during a ZA is stupid as fuck; it puts both he mom, those protecting her and the baby at stake and 2) it's very difficult to both provide for and raise a baby while always on the move, running from walkers and people and when there's hardly any food.
Yeah Jane is cold, but she's also right in that trying to protect everyone you care about only makes things worse; so she tries not to care but is taken by Clem, and Luke to a lesser extent. Without Jane, people in this group die a lot sooner.
She implied Alvie was dead, cause she knew how Kenny would react.
It was all part of a plan she had, to provoke Kenny into attacking her.
… moreIf you tell her to back off, instead of getting in between them, she says: "No way, it's time put this crusty piece of shift out of his misery."
She never wanted that baby around.
And her attitude was: "Everyone is expendable. As long as I survive, that's all that counts."
She did seem to have an attachment to Clementine, but beyond that, she didn't seem to be able to connect with anyone else, preferring to mainly be on her own.
Jane demonstrated the characteristics of a sociopath, as they do have the ability to actually bond with a specific individual, but not with a people in general, and for the most part tend to isolate themselves from others.
And they generally have no regard for the rights of others.
1) You can't be serious. If Jane didn't want the fight to happen, or initiate it on purpose, then why would she hide AJ in the car, pretend to look sad and not make eye contact when she was initially talking to Kenny, purposely be very vague and not answer his questions to lead him to the conclusion that AJ was dead, and then immediately right herself from her fake huddled position, all signs of sadness vanishing far too quickly for it to be genuine the minute Kenny was out of sight, and then go on to tell Clem to "stay out of it", and that she was "going to show her what Kenny really was". This didn't alert you that something wasn't right, that perhaps Jane was putting on a facade? Quite convenient that she doesn't tell Clem about AJ's true whereabouts either, knowing that Clem wouldn't sit back and do nothing if she knew the truth. It was all an act. She planned all of it. She didn't throw her knife away to make peace, she sheathed it to taunt him, to goad him into attacking her, because if she didn't get the response she wanted from him, her plan to make herself look like the "good guy" in front of Clem would fail and she wouldn't get to have Clem to herself.
2) I never said he did. She led him to believe that AJ was dead, which is probably one of the cruelest and most deceitful things I've ever seen done in these games. Nothing she said is valid or should be taken into account in the least, because she was lying from the very beginning. Unless placing AJ in the car, and concocting a plan to make both Clem and Kenny believe the baby was dead was also an accident. Because that's totally justified right? Putting a baby in danger and playing with a man's emotions as though he's just a tool, and not a human being? That woman is manipulative, and has shown she is not above making a man go mad with grief, to make a little girl think the baby she's become attached to was eaten, simply to get her way. She attempted to show the ugly side of Kenny, only to show how twisted and ugly she was herself. There is no rational excuse for her actions.
3) The fight did not become a fight to the death until Jane said she was going to put this "crusty piece of shit out of his misery". A statement that she makes after following Kenny outside, who was the first to actually back off and try to disengage himself from the fight when she slashes his stomach. That was when Kenny realizes that she plans to kill him, so he responded in kind to her death threat. Jane isn't cruel is she? So leaving a baby out in the cold alone isn't cruel? Taking the one solace that is keeping a broken man going, and making him think the baby is dead to further her own agenda isn't cruel? Manipulating Clem and Kenny like puppets isn't cruel? Kenny is an open book when it comes to his emotions, Jane knew where to strike to make it hurt, to push him over the edge. Jane is perhaps the cruelest character in this game, excluding Carver. This sick plan was premeditated, given that it was a mile+ walk in the middle of a blizzard to the rest stop. He didn't care if it was an accident, because he very likely became suspicious of Jane when she failed to explain herself after he asked her what happened. She didn't clarify what happened, and there were no signs of blood, struggle, ripped clothing, nothing that made it look like Jane tried to save AJ. I'd argue that alarms went off in his head when he tried to make sense of the situation, and remembered what type of person Jane was, a person who considered AJ to be a liability. Jane saw AJ as a burden, and is known for abandoning people who are weak to save herself, it's not very difficult to come to the conclusion that Jane just left AJ to die in the blizzard. There's really no point in discussing this hypothetical situation anyway, because in the end Jane lied like the despicable person she is, she took advantage of not only Clem and Kenny, but also a helpless baby.
Not explaining this for the umpteenth time, anyone with a knowledge of treating heart attack victims knew that Larry was done for. It was done very brutally, but it had to be done in order to keep everyone else safe who was locked in that meat locker with such a huge threat. I will agree that it was insensitive of Kenny to not care about Lilly's feelings on the matter. But it still had to be done.
Not really.
1) Jane didn't initiate the fight (on purpose), as she knew she wouldn't have to; Kenny charged her, after she put up her kni… morefe and backed away. He was the only active danger, and Jane knew it.
2) Kenny didn't know that Jane faked AJ's death; we did. She said that it was an accident, which was perfectly understandable, and possible, given 1) walkers were roaming the area and 2) they were in a damn blinding blizzard. Kenny, however, didn't care was going to kill her regardless because he was flipping his shit now that AJ was "dead" (as expected).
3) If Kenny had not gone homicidal, then he would've proved Jane wrong about him, and he would've been in the right. Jane would've then gone to get AJ, because she's not cruel enough to leave the baby out there any longer than has has to. However, that didn't happen, because what Jane said would happen happened; Kenny didn't care if it was an accident, or not, was out for blood fr… [view original content]
I like the way you said this.
You expressed the situation very well, as well as your thoughts on it.
The ability to express oneself well i… mores actually a talent, that takes time and work to master.
And from other comments of your's that I've ever read, I can tell that you are quite gifted; in being able to express yourself clearly, and logically.
My compliments!
Jane was a manipulative, and completely selfish.
Selfishness knows no bounds.
Having seen those kind of people my whole life, I had her pegged shortly after we met her.
In Kenny's words: "There ain't no mystery here. She was nuts! A disturbed person who had her own agenda, and was lookin' after herself."
And for an in-depth profile on her character; and the situation between her and Kenny, I think Tinni said it best.
Jane was not a sociopath for simple fact that she felt remorse for her actions, even if she didn't regret doing them. A sociopath doesn't pu… moret herself in danger several times for people she doesn't care about, or go out of their way to devise the endgame scheme she did, even if it cost her her life, for someone that may not agree with their actions. Why would she care about her sister's passing, or compare Jaime to Sarah, if she didn't care? She even felt bad for killing that asshole Russian guy. She gives Clem the nail file to remember her by.
She's says that, but still put up her weapon and backed away; and let's not forget that Kenny already say he was going to kill her then, and before while the were in the truck.
Jane never casually just sacrificed others, even if she wanted to leave. She could've ran when the walkers attacked the gift shop, but didn't. He'll she could've left after Clem left her to unlock the gift shop.
Jane is … [view original content]
You explained it in a way I had always wanted to, but didn't.
Cause quite frankly, I have grown damn-sick of defending Kenny, and exposing Jane for the monster that she was.
Don't get me wrong, I love Kenny, he's my favorite character next to Lee, and I will defend him.
But everytime I do, I get shit on by everyone who hates Kenny.
Sorry to be vulgar, but it just gets old after a while.
Even if others don't agree with what was said, every person should at least be allowed to have their own "opinion" on the matter.
And not be attacked for having such, and being treated as either "an idiot, or as, "delusional."
This is probably the best comment on the entire forum.
You explained the situation, and Jane's character, with flawless detail.
Kudos Tinni!
1) You can't be serious. If Jane didn't want the fight to happen, or initiate it on purpose, then why would she hide AJ in the car, pretend … moreto look sad and not make eye contact when she was initially talking to Kenny, purposely be very vague and not answer his questions to lead him to the conclusion that AJ was dead, and then immediately right herself from her fake huddled position, all signs of sadness vanishing far too quickly for it to be genuine the minute Kenny was out of sight, and then go on to tell Clem to "stay out of it", and that she was "going to show her what Kenny really was". This didn't alert you that something wasn't right, that perhaps Jane was putting on a facade? Quite convenient that she doesn't tell Clem about AJ's true whereabouts either, knowing that Clem wouldn't sit back and do nothing if she knew the truth. It was all an act. She planned all of it. She didn't throw her knife away to make peace, she sheathed it to t… [view original content]
I get tired of it as well, but I often enjoy typing up these posts, because not only does it help me brush up a little on my writing/debating skills, it is quite fun. You're right though, it got old a long time ago, and as amusing as I find it to be, it still is a little exasperating to repeat these conversations over and over again.
You've hit the nail right on the head there. Regardless of differing opinions, we should all be able to behave ourselves and be polite, even if we disagree. But people are human, so we forget this a lot. As long as they apologize, I think it's alright though.
Oh I don't know about that!XD But thank you so much again Kenny/Lee, those are such nice things to hear.:-)
You explained it in a way I had always wanted to, but didn't.
Cause quite frankly, I have grown damn-sick of defending Kenny, and exposing … moreJane for the monster that she was.
Don't get me wrong, I love Kenny, he's my favorite character next to Lee, and I will defend him.
But everytime I do, I get shit on by everyone who hates Kenny.
Sorry to be vulgar, but it just gets old after a while.
Even if others don't agree with what was said, every person should at least be allowed to have their own "opinion" on the matter.
And not be attacked for having such, and being treated as either "an idiot, or as, "delusional."
This is probably the best comment on the entire forum.
You explained the situation, and Jane's character, with flawless detail.
Kudos Tinni!
Comments
Well you are rather delusional if you think there ever was a spot in wellington for Kenny. He also put Clem in danger constantly so i dont see how he was such great company for her.
He is sorry, but he doesnt change the way he behaves. Not really the best way to live.
Well i cant ignore the bad sides when someones life is at stake.
I'm delusional?
What does that make you?
No offense, but you really need to work on your people skills.
For example, you might get a better response from others if you would act with a little more tact, and refrain from rude insults.
because people are unable to be objective?
It was actually a lot more light-hearted and funny. But so were the forums as a whole from what I remember.
Exactly my point.
I was speaking from a personal perspective.
And for that, I get insulted.
This guy has really got it out for Kenny.
If this guy doesn't like Kenny, that's his problem.
But he doesn't have to tear down the character, everytime someone mentions they like him, and why.
Nor does he have to insult those of us that do like Kenny.
Kenny loyalist, I am not. I let him leave Clem at Wellington cause he was a danger to himself and others, but he redeemed himself in the end.
They're anything but identical. I have my doubts as to whether Lilly would have killed Ben if he had owned up to his mistake. Doug saved him from that fate, and Carley... don't even get me started. Lilly's actions were either unprovoked (Doug) or an extreme reaction (Carley)
Kenny's actions were provoked and Jane engineered the situation so Kenny would react. Saw right through that illusion when she said "you're gonna see who he really is". That backfired, Jane got killed. It was a stupid move and it proved so when I didn't interfere.
Fair enough, Lilly was also grieving for the loss of her father, but her actions were horrible and unnecessary. She would have a serious job on her hands to get me to forgive her.
Could you focus on the actual message? What makes you think Kenny ever had a spot? Only reason they let anyone in was because it was only a kid and baby who were coming in.
Nevertheless, you still don't have to be rude.
If you wanna make a point, you don't have to insult others.
In fact, doing so, will not help make your point at all.
All it's going to do, is make people not want to talk to you, nor want to be around you.
Well thats just me.
Care to give proper reply now?
youre tempting others to insult you back so you have a chance to make their arguments invalid too
He feels sorry for Alvin in both of his death´s
Well, that's a lie. Isn't it?
After savagely murdering a father in cold blood in front of his daughter and a eight year old, he continued to bash heads with the grieving daughter. So, no, he wasn't on "neutral terms" with people nor did he "not HATE Lily."
And coming from someone who carries grudges so strongly. I find it funny he was angry with the way Lily saw him after he, again, murdered her father not but four inches from her. A truly great man.
Murdering her dad ? You cant kill whats dead, given his heart stopped, wasnt breathing and no pulse. All of those stop and the reanimation process starts.
While both Carley and Ben weren't perceived as murderers, understand that everything that happened to Lilly was a build-up. It happened over time. From the moment, Glenn and Carley opened up the pharmacy, to the moment they lost the motor inn, there was only so much she could take before she snapped. In Lilly's point of view, "Stealing from the group is like murder. What if Clementine needs medicine and we don't have it?" This was after Larry died. She prioritized the group's safety and Clementine as her top priorities. Stealing from the group was like killing someone to her. Let's get something straight. Ben was to blame. Carley just got in the way by calling the unstable girl who she knew was losing it "a bitch. A scared little girl." and telling her to "Take a page from Lee's book and try helping someone for once." From Lilly's point of view, she was doing everything she could to the best of her ability to keep the group alive and no one agreed with what she was doing and how she was doing it. She felt alone.
Both the Lilly situation and the Kenny/Jane situation can be understandable depending on how you choose to look at it. That's just one part of the grisly beauty that is TellTale Games: The Walking Dead.
So given the context Kenny's murder is more understandable?
That may be the case to you but before he attacks Jane, she tries to explain that it was an accident, she even sheathed her knife and was willing to walk away before he attacks her, but he still tries to murder her and the point of the matter is yes the situations were different but Lilly pulled the trigger and that was that, Kenny (both him and Jane actually) had a lot of opportunities to stop and took none of them even though Clementine was begging them to stop, in my eyes that's way worse, both had the same reaction but Lilly had no chance to back away once she did what she did so it's harder to tell if she would have stopped, while Kenny could have stopped at any time but didn't, so both things are pretty awful in their own right.
As for the whole baby killer thing, I understand what he was feeling, but like I said he had several opportunities to walk away and didn't so I can't excuse or forgive him, I can empathize and understand but not justify or forgive, and before you say something about being in the heat of the moment I know exactly what it's like to be that angry and to do something like that and I know I stopped and walk away even though I didn't want to and everything in my head told me that I had to, why? Because killing that person would have hurt the people I was trying to protect and that was more important than doing what I wanted and killing that bastard, and for Kenny is worse and more unforgivable because he had that important person there telling him to stop and didn't, while all I did was think about how much I would hurt her and that was enough to make me put the stupid knife down, Kenny should have stopped and he is a worthless piece of shit because he didn't, at least Lilly had the excuse that once she pulled the trigger there was no going back.
and she's loosing it too much...
Umm... sure. Like, I'm not even trying to justify what he did, only explaining that there is no direct comparison to what Lilly did. Seriously, that's it.
I highly disagree with you on a number of those things, but what does this have to do with equating Kenny's actions to Lilly's actions anyway? This is entirely a different discussion. I have been down this road many, many times, and I don't particularly feel like explaining it when it's largely irrelevant to the point I was making. I'm only telling you that there isn't reason to think that just because someone wants to indict Lilly for what she did, that doesn't mean they also need to indict Kenny. The situations are not the same; that's all I'm arguing here.
Again, not sure you're understanding the point of all of this. I wasn't justifying any individual actions, I was only saying that they are not equatable to Lilly's. You're kind of going off on a tangent here.
I understand that. This does nothing to equalize the two events. Just because Kenny and Lilly were both going through emotional issues and both had a violent reaction to a given situation doesn't mean it's logical to act like the situations are the same.
First of all, I'd just like to say that Lilly's POV in regards to that was pretty ridiculous. Decreasing someone's potential for survival =/= actually straight up directly and intentionally murdering someone. It's not the same thing at all. At the point that Lilly murders Carley/Ben, no one in the group is dead or perceived to be dead. So again, there really isn't any comparison at all to Jane showing up and telling Kenny that she got "his" baby killed (accident or no accident). Attacking someone because you think they murdered your baby is not equal to killing someone because they A) pissed you off and
may have been part of a selfish scheme that hurt group potentiality for survival.
What's your point? I understand that Lilly felt alone, and that she was coming unhinged. As I explained above, this doesn't equalize the two situations.
"One can reasonably think that the Kenny situation is forgivable/understandable, while on the other hand not forgiving Lilly for her actions regarding Carley/Doug."
That's all I have been arguing here. There is no direct comparison to be made, so arguing that someone who chooses not to give Lilly a pass for her actions must also not give Kenny a pass for his own is illogical.
I get easily distracted by tangents.
All good, it happens to all of us. I probably wasn't being clear enough.
Nah, it happens to me all the time, I have the sense to delete it or rephrase it most of the time but sometimes I slip and click post.
Yeah, cause the idiotic redneck would know that a man that took a breath was dead huh?
He's a doct- oh wait. He's actually a fisherman. So I don't think medical treatments are his thing.
Wow!
You really don't get it, do you?
Let me put it this way: After the way you spoke to me, and the way you insulted me, I don't want to talk to you.
No. Lilly killed an innocent person because she got her panties in a twist when someone was criticizing her for her rash actions. Kenny killed Jane because not only was she an active threat to his life, she purposely implied that she let a baby get killed. Neither are in the right, but Kenny's situation is more understandable given the circumstances.
Not really.
1) Jane didn't initiate the fight (on purpose), as she knew she wouldn't have to; Kenny charged her, after she put up her knife and backed away. He was the only active danger, and Jane knew it.
2) Kenny didn't know that Jane faked AJ's death; we did. She said that it was an accident, which was perfectly understandable, and possible, given 1) walkers were roaming the area and 2) they were in a damn blinding blizzard. Kenny, however, didn't care was going to kill her regardless because he was flipping his shit now that AJ was "dead" (as expected).
3) If Kenny had not gone homicidal, then he would've proved Jane wrong about him, and he would've been in the right. Jane would've then gone to get AJ, because she's not cruel enough to leave the baby out there any longer than has has to. However, that didn't happen, because what Jane said would happen happened; Kenny didn't care if it was an accident, or not, was out for blood from a person visually backed down from the fight before he charged her.
So yeah, Kenny and Lilly are both as bad. Let's not forget that Kenny smashed Larry's head in front of Lilly, not even giving him chance (people have come back after not breathing for a few seconds, like Larry), and showed NO remorse, or tried to better his relationship with her at all. Yes there was a timeskip, but seeing how Kenny acts towards everybody after that scene, throughout both games, we know for damn sure he didn't.
I like the way you said this.
You expressed the situation very well, as well as your thoughts on it.
The ability to express oneself well is actually a talent, that takes time and work to master.
And from other comments of your's that I've ever read, I can tell that you are quite gifted; in being able to express yourself clearly, and logically.
My compliments!
I try my best XD. When I want to create an opinion of something, I try to look at all the facts before I make any judgments. Kenny had plenty of chances to prove Jane wrong, including before the blizzard scene, but he failed every time. I get that he's been thru shit, but so has Jane, Clem, and the other characters, like Nick, and Walter (depending on us, of course lol), but they didn't end up like he did.
Also, don't take this as me hating on Kenny. I actually love his flawed character, and I was pissed that I wasn't given the option to shot/stab his head to prevent him from turning.
She implied Alvie was dead, cause she knew how Kenny would react.
It was all part of a plan she had, to provoke Kenny into attacking her.
If you tell her to back off, instead of getting in between them, she says: "No way, it's time put this crusty piece of shift out of his misery."
She never wanted that baby around.
And her attitude was: "Everyone is expendable. As long as I survive, that's all that counts."
She did seem to have an attachment to Clementine, but beyond that, she didn't seem to be able to connect with anyone else, preferring to mainly be on her own.
Jane demonstrated the characteristics of a sociopath, as they do have the ability to actually bond with a specific individual, but not with a people in general, and for the most part tend to isolate themselves from others.
And they generally have no regard for the rights of others.
Well Larry starts breathing if you help Lilly, and I don't think he was turning since his skin wasn't grey like nosy other infected people. I'm not an expert on heart attacks lol and Lilly probably did it because she was panicking and couldn't do anything else
Jane was not a sociopath for simple fact that she felt remorse for her actions, even if she didn't regret doing them. A sociopath doesn't put herself in danger several times for people she doesn't care about, or go out of their way to devise the endgame scheme she did, even if it cost her her life, for someone that may not agree with their actions. Why would she care about her sister's passing, or compare Jaime to Sarah, if she didn't care? She even felt bad for killing that asshole Russian guy. She gives Clem the nail file to remember her by.
She's says that, but still put up her weapon and backed away; and let's not forget that Kenny already say he was going to kill her then, and before while the were in the truck.
Jane never casually just sacrificed others, even if she wanted to leave. She could've ran when the walkers attacked the gift shop, but didn't. He'll she could've left after Clem left her to unlock the gift shop.
Jane is against the baby because 1) having a bay during a ZA is stupid as fuck; it puts both he mom, those protecting her and the baby at stake and 2) it's very difficult to both provide for and raise a baby while always on the move, running from walkers and people and when there's hardly any food.
Yeah Jane is cold, but she's also right in that trying to protect everyone you care about only makes things worse; so she tries not to care but is taken by Clem, and Luke to a lesser extent. Without Jane, people in this group die a lot sooner.
1) You can't be serious. If Jane didn't want the fight to happen, or initiate it on purpose, then why would she hide AJ in the car, pretend to look sad and not make eye contact when she was initially talking to Kenny, purposely be very vague and not answer his questions to lead him to the conclusion that AJ was dead, and then immediately right herself from her fake huddled position, all signs of sadness vanishing far too quickly for it to be genuine the minute Kenny was out of sight, and then go on to tell Clem to "stay out of it", and that she was "going to show her what Kenny really was". This didn't alert you that something wasn't right, that perhaps Jane was putting on a facade? Quite convenient that she doesn't tell Clem about AJ's true whereabouts either, knowing that Clem wouldn't sit back and do nothing if she knew the truth. It was all an act. She planned all of it. She didn't throw her knife away to make peace, she sheathed it to taunt him, to goad him into attacking her, because if she didn't get the response she wanted from him, her plan to make herself look like the "good guy" in front of Clem would fail and she wouldn't get to have Clem to herself.
2) I never said he did. She led him to believe that AJ was dead, which is probably one of the cruelest and most deceitful things I've ever seen done in these games. Nothing she said is valid or should be taken into account in the least, because she was lying from the very beginning. Unless placing AJ in the car, and concocting a plan to make both Clem and Kenny believe the baby was dead was also an accident. Because that's totally justified right? Putting a baby in danger and playing with a man's emotions as though he's just a tool, and not a human being? That woman is manipulative, and has shown she is not above making a man go mad with grief, to make a little girl think the baby she's become attached to was eaten, simply to get her way. She attempted to show the ugly side of Kenny, only to show how twisted and ugly she was herself. There is no rational excuse for her actions.
3) The fight did not become a fight to the death until Jane said she was going to put this "crusty piece of shit out of his misery". A statement that she makes after following Kenny outside, who was the first to actually back off and try to disengage himself from the fight when she slashes his stomach. That was when Kenny realizes that she plans to kill him, so he responded in kind to her death threat. Jane isn't cruel is she? So leaving a baby out in the cold alone isn't cruel? Taking the one solace that is keeping a broken man going, and making him think the baby is dead to further her own agenda isn't cruel? Manipulating Clem and Kenny like puppets isn't cruel? Kenny is an open book when it comes to his emotions, Jane knew where to strike to make it hurt, to push him over the edge. Jane is perhaps the cruelest character in this game, excluding Carver. This sick plan was premeditated, given that it was a mile+ walk in the middle of a blizzard to the rest stop. He didn't care if it was an accident, because he very likely became suspicious of Jane when she failed to explain herself after he asked her what happened. She didn't clarify what happened, and there were no signs of blood, struggle, ripped clothing, nothing that made it look like Jane tried to save AJ. I'd argue that alarms went off in his head when he tried to make sense of the situation, and remembered what type of person Jane was, a person who considered AJ to be a liability. Jane saw AJ as a burden, and is known for abandoning people who are weak to save herself, it's not very difficult to come to the conclusion that Jane just left AJ to die in the blizzard. There's really no point in discussing this hypothetical situation anyway, because in the end Jane lied like the despicable person she is, she took advantage of not only Clem and Kenny, but also a helpless baby.
Not explaining this for the umpteenth time, anyone with a knowledge of treating heart attack victims knew that Larry was done for. It was done very brutally, but it had to be done in order to keep everyone else safe who was locked in that meat locker with such a huge threat. I will agree that it was insensitive of Kenny to not care about Lilly's feelings on the matter. But it still had to be done.
Is this a reply to me or MichaelAngel0? It showed up in my feed as a response to my comment, but he responded to it..I'm a bit confused.
You.
Oh ok. Well, thank you then! I always appreciate your compliments.:)
Jane was a manipulative, and completely selfish.
Selfishness knows no bounds.
Having seen those kind of people my whole life, I had her pegged shortly after we met her.
In Kenny's words: "There ain't no mystery here. She was nuts! A disturbed person who had her own agenda, and was lookin' after herself."
And for an in-depth profile on her character; and the situation between her and Kenny, I think Tinni said it best.
You explained it in a way I had always wanted to, but didn't.
Cause quite frankly, I have grown damn-sick of defending Kenny, and exposing Jane for the monster that she was.
Don't get me wrong, I love Kenny, he's my favorite character next to Lee, and I will defend him.
But everytime I do, I get shit on by everyone who hates Kenny.
Sorry to be vulgar, but it just gets old after a while.
Even if others don't agree with what was said, every person should at least be allowed to have their own "opinion" on the matter.
And not be attacked for having such, and being treated as either "an idiot, or as, "delusional."
This is probably the best comment on the entire forum.
You explained the situation, and Jane's character, with flawless detail.
Kudos Tinni!
I get tired of it as well, but I often enjoy typing up these posts, because not only does it help me brush up a little on my writing/debating skills, it is quite fun. You're right though, it got old a long time ago, and as amusing as I find it to be, it still is a little exasperating to repeat these conversations over and over again.
You've hit the nail right on the head there. Regardless of differing opinions, we should all be able to behave ourselves and be polite, even if we disagree. But people are human, so we forget this a lot. As long as they apologize, I think it's alright though.
Oh I don't know about that!XD But thank you so much again Kenny/Lee, those are such nice things to hear.:-)
It is Killing, its called mercy killing.
Your not the only one trust me.
He is trying it with me on the PM, so i said go drink your kil(l)kenny beer and lighten up
I can forgive her, but that doesn't mean I will forget what she did.