Rebecca stupid for having unprotected sex? Jane heartless for asking about what to do about him?
A lot of people on here seem to not bring up how stupid it is that AJ even came into existence at all, and then the Jane haters like to bring up that Jane didn't care for the baby, when the one indication of skepticism she showed about the baby was when she asked Rebecca what she'd do about him. It's unrealistic, that ONLY Jane asked that question too. It was done to hint at her tendency to abandon others....even though she just went out of her way to save Rebecca, and, as a result, her unborn baby.
He's a newborn baby in a ZA (even though Telltale portrayed him as more of a prop, than an actual baby), if they can barely protect, and provide, for themselves, how are they suppose to do that AND protect an infant? I think that that question needs to be asked when the person having the baby is putting others in danger because she can't defend herself.
Comments
Even Jane knew it was a stupid question to ask. I mean.. think about what she's implying there. Of course Rebecca is going to do her best to ensure her baby's survival. It's not even a question.
Yeah, it's insensitive to ask, but that's not the main issue here. The issue is that in order for Rebecca to ensure the baby's survival, she has to lean heavily on the help, and protection of others; that means other people are put in danger because of her, and the baby, if they decide to make her, and the baby, their responsibility.
It's something that has to be asked. I'm surprised Jane didn't didn't press harder asking "Rebecca you do realize that you having a baby puts the lives of others at risk, right? You can't protect yourself, and have to depend on others. Didn't you take into consideration other people before having unprotected sex with people? How are we gonna provide for the baby food/formula, and viable shelter, when we can barely do it for ourselves? Winter is coming you know? (No pun intended) People already die pretty easily out here, so how does having a baby to protect make it any easier." I'm surprised that Mike and Bonnie didn't question this either.
If Rebecca is gonna depend others, and put their lives at risk, then she needs to answer that. She doesn't get a pass because it's her baby.
"Unprotected sex" is a pretty mild way of saying "Rape."
Rebecca was coerced into having sex with her boss, who believed that his community was safe and secure enough to have a baby. She escaped, preferring the dangers of the wild over remaining a prisoner. Additionally, she probably didn't want to have an abortion because her husband was convinced the child was his.
I'm a bit astounded that you honestly didn't get that subtext, probably because Telltale was so bad at explaining what happened between Carver and Rebecca that it flew over virtually everyone's heads. Episode 3 should have focused on that rather than putting Kenny in the damn spotlight. And you talking about Rebecca being reliant on others - she literally says that that's the reason why she's so bitter and angry.
Jane needs to learn some tact before trying to lecture complete strangers on things that they've spent months living with.
How do you know it was rape? And no, episode 3 would suck if they focused on what happened between Carver and Rebecca. You actually wanna see that, how would that progress the plot at all? Episode 3 is one of the best episodes, it's great the way it is.
Are we even sure that the baby isn't Alvin's? Because Alvin was pretty sure it was his, Carver wasn't 100% sure that it was his (it was "his now", since he captured them) and Rebecca said that she hoped that it was Alvin's too. That implies that she had unprotected sex with Alvin too.
Rebecca says that's why she's so bitter now, in hindsight, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that she let herself have the kid regardless of the inevitable hardships that were to come. How does plan to feed him? How does she plan to keep him warm in the winter? How does she plan to keep him from crying when sneaking past walkers? What if someone dies protecting the baby, does she go on expecting others to do the same? Yeah, it's a baby, but that's being selfish; expecting others to die for you, or you allowing others to sacrifice their lives for you, while you do nothing to contribute.
Tact doesn't matter when lives are put on the line to protect her, and said baby, now.
I think it was heavily hinted at that Carver may have forced his way onto Rebecca. She always showed contempt towards him, no matter what. I would be surprised if at one point Bec actually liked Carver.
He doesn't know. He is just talking.
Their is no evidence that i am aware of that shows Carver raped Rebecca.
Jane also had (Most likely) unprotected sex with Luke. If it is so then Jane's a hypocrite.
Luke a smart guy, he used the tried in True "Pull out" method.
100%
How do you think she got her beard.
That Luke, always thinking ahead, didn't look like a mess though...You think Jane did a little clean up. Either she did or Luke didn't pull out.
Jane is an idiot. She blew her trumpet about how much of a liability the baby would be, but had sex with Luke out of nowhere. If anything Rebecca was either raped or got comfortable in the Howe's fortress to have sex.
Their is not much Cleanup with a good hoover.
I really want to know what they did. :P
For...You know research...For/Against Jane...
Carvers last words before Kenny killed him were to rebecca "What the fuck are you looking at bitch, Don't act like you didn't enjoy every second of it" I think carver is implying when he raped her.
Yeah because in zombie apocalypse it is pretty easy to go to the store and buy protection.
Carvers last words before Kenny killed him were to rebecca "What the fuck are you looking at bitch, Don't act like you didn't enjoy every second of it" I think carver is implying when he raped her.
Lets just say, Luke administered a oral exam to Jane, and she passed with Flying Colors.
There was no time for kissing one head... :P
Carvers last words before Kenny killed him were to rebecca "What the fuck are you looking at bitch, Don't act like you didn't enjoy every second of it" I think carver is implying when he raped her.
It annoyed that more people didn't bring up this discussion, if anything. Everyone seemed way too eager to take care of a resource depleting, noise making newborn. The baby was a burden and if Rebecca wasn't going to kill it then I would've preferred to leave the group with Jane, and others if they shared similar sentiments.
He can say that if it was consensual.
Kissing is for fools in love.
Depends on the kissing...And where.
I might have to loo into it more but if I remember crrectly there were some lines that implied that Rebecca was not raped.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that I don't think that Rebecca consensually had sex with Carver. Especially since, if you chose to watch Carver get beaten, his last words were something along the lines of 'don't act like you didn't love every second of it.' But, nonetheless, I don't think being pregnant in the ZA is the most ideal position to be in. I thought it was sensible for Jane to bring it up, but yeah it did come off as cold and heartless, but, in my mind, she's just asking what everyone else is thinking. :P
She wasn't.
Why would she say "Alvin will kill me."
Alvin wouldn't blame his wife if she was "raped."
She slept with Carver and tried to run with his kid.
Unused Carver's audio says: "You wanted this as much as I did".
How would it be not consensual? she doesn't show any sign of trauma that most rapes shows. She didn't shown really victimize traits. In fact, curses out Caver with him heavily armed at the cabin.
Also, she worked in Carver's office and notice that Carver is a powerful man. Maybe perhaps she had a boss-co-worker type sex. Where she felt obligated because he's the one in power. This happens a lot in modern days in business.
Plus, you notice that Alvin and Rebecca were having Marriage problems already.Maybe she just wanted to venture out with Carver because she was losing interest with Alvin.
Agreed. The main issue here is that this is the one of the first signs of Jane showing her true colors. The fact that she is even questioning the actions of a mother choosing to raise her own child is just sick. Her blind insensitivity is only second to that.
Of course she would need to lean on others for help. Of course there are obstacles to face. That doesn't mean you seriously consider terminating the baby for your own selfish reasoning. That's sick and cowardly to the shame-fullest.
Do you honestly think it even needs to be said..? Obviously there are struggles in raising a baby in an apocalyptic world. I don't think the group was so severely lacking in intelligence that they had the inability to see this.
So just because Rebecca arguably made a stupid mistake and is now reliant upon others for support that means it is perfectly reasonable to not give her and the baby the support they need?
It doesn't. Again, that doesn't mean the right choice is in selfishly and cowardly abandoning those who need your help.
They were scumbags, but not quite on the level of Jane I suppose.
How would she have gone about doing that? Did you want an apology?
There would be a.... a.... a lack of PROTECTION in the ZA, and it was inconsiderate for Jane; not heartless.
Don't know the exact link; have only heard it, but there is an unused dialogue referencing the fact that they both wanted it. The quote is,"You wanted it as much as I did."
Are you serious?
1) Asking how a person completely dependent on others plans to take care of a newborn in ZA, is common fucking sense. It's bad writing that ONLY Jane asked her this, and that everyone was just fine taking care of newborn in the coming winter with no viable shelter, no formula, and no way to keep him quiet, if he starts crying, when sneaking past walkers, or other people. Rebecca is the one being insensitive, as she letting other people be her shield. Mind you, Jane JUST saved her life (when she had no reason to; I mean Kenny gives no fucks when he abandons Clem in the horde, no matter how we handle Sarita) before asking. What if they have to walk thru a horde WITH the baby? You think it's safe to cover an infant in walker remains? What if he starts crying while they're walking thru the horde?
2) No, forcing a child to live thru this nightmare because of your feelings towards him/her is more selfish. The ZA has gone on for 2 years now, with no end in sight, and you want to raise a baby where food, shelter and safety is not guaranteed? Oh and the you want to depend on others to sacrifice their lives for you, and your baby? What about them, don't they get any consideration?
3) I think it does need to be said given the fact that Rebecca was irresponsible enough to have sex with anyone in this ZA. Apparently the group was intellectually inept, because Mike, Bonnie, and Luke never brought this up. Don't bring up the Jane and Luke scene, because they didn't have sex.
4) "So just because Rebecca arguably made a stupid mistake and is now reliant upon others for support that means it is perfectly reasonable to not give her and the baby the support they need?" Really? So because she's having a baby, the rest of the group needs to put their lives on the line to safeguard her, and the baby that shouldn't have happened? Again, what happens if he cries while they walk thru a horde, or sneaking past enemies? Everybody sacrifice your lives for this person because there's really good chance of that baby growing up just fine in this ZA, right? What we have to constantly search for formula because this few days old baby can't eat solid food? But we're in the middle of the forest/nowhere....
5) So it's selfish for others to abandon the liability, but not selfish for the liability to always expect support, and protection, from others, even when said liability puts the lives of others at risk...what?
6) They were "scumbags" because their self-imposed "leader" was a mentally unstable douche who beats and/or constantly yells at those doesn't like. I'd say they were wrong in taking all the supplies, but Mike and bonnie were leaving with Arvo, and weren't those Arvo's supplies anyway? It was him, and his group, that found them, so if he wants to take them with him when he leaves, he can do that. It's not like Kenny's beatings gave him any incentive to leave him any.
7) She should've already taken care of the pregnancy before the game even started. Or better yet, not have unprotected sex with other men in ZA.
She's lucky that Jane gave enough a shit to come back for her (and Clem), because nobody else was.
Ah, did not know that. I also forgot about how she was thinking it could've been Alvin's which implies that they, also, had unprotected sex. Regardless, it still wasn't exactly the smartest thing to do, imo.
Yup. Only in a very safe location with a lack of Crazy People.
Speaking of common fucking sense, I don't know how you actually managed to miss the entire point of the exchange between the two. Jane wasn't asking for a plan of action in taking care of the baby. She was asking what to do with the baby itself... as in taking care of it or not taking care of it. If she would have actually been randomly inspired to hash out the details of taking care of both the baby and Rebecca, she would have done so. Did you not watch Jane's reaction when Rebecca questioned her? It was an "oh shit" type of reaction, because she knew she had put her foot in her mouth. Obviously if she was looking out for Rebecca and the baby's best interests she would have zero reason to react in that sort of way. If you go on to tell Jane that the group will look after the baby together, she doesn't even ask how. If she was actually interested in the "how", she would have continued to move the conversation in that direction. Instead she gives a rebuttal by saying: "Even if that's the case, you can't always protect everyone". While she's saying this, the game gives us the good old "(?) Jane will remember that" line, showing us that the idea of everyone protecting the baby together as a group is either something Jane fundamentally disagrees with, or had not been thinking of before. If she was already on the same page, the game wouldn't have bothered to give us that message.
So anyway, please don't be condescending when you're not even going to use your basic senses to decipher what the story is telling you. It is beyond annoying, and I'm wayy too tired to put up with that kind of thing right now
Is that how you think Jane feels? Because... you know... that's what we're kind of discussing here. If you do, you're basing that on headcanon and not much else, so it really doesn't matter. I personally don't think it's okay to make that decision for the baby. It's a shitty situation to live in, but life is still a gift. Who are you to take such a miraculous opportunity away from someone just because you personally don't see them making a reasonable existence out of it? I don't know why you would think you could ever reasonably make that call for the mother, let alone the child itself.
Of course logically a plan would be put together in terms of taking care of the child. But again, this isn't what Jane was talking about (as detailed above). And just because the story doesn't explicitly show the group putting a baby plan together, that doesn't actually mean that no one had these things in mind. For example, in the TV show no one ever talks about doing things to keep Judith sustained. Realistically they would, but it isn't necessary to cram every sort of realistic detail into a story. It ultimately isn't very important to telling the story.
As I said to you in my last post, if you want to abandon your humanity, be selfish, and be a coward, then by all means go ahead and abandon a defenseless mother and her new born child. At that point you're just surviving to survive, with nothing to actually live for. If you're fine with that, then alrighty, but understand that there are people who would hold onto meaning, purpose, and some level of human nature.
I mean, if you actually want to be deep about this, let's look at it like this: You're straight up admitting that there is no sort of life worth living in this situation, to the extent that you have said that a baby should not even have a chance to live, so why exactly would you be in hardcore self-survivalist mode? What's the point? If there is no good reason to live, nothing to look forward to, then why are you wasting your time doing whatever it takes to survive in the first place? This is why you don't let go of the values that I detailed above. If all you're doing is surviving for the sake of surviving, and nothing else (as in having no purpose), are you really and truly living?
Because one side is more or less helpless and the other is not.
I'm not going to get into it really. This is kind of an aside from what we're talking about. I don't want to make this about Kenny. You're having that conversation elsewhere anyway.
That's pretty unreasonable.
Coming from a monster who pretty much treats her as his property and portrays Alvin as a cold-blooded murderer, should we take everything he says at face-value?
Well, condoms or any other contraception methods aren't really an option. Besides abstinence, of course.
Rape isn't actually just done by violent bandits who mutilate their victims. Most of the time, in reality, they're done by someone the victim already knows and has a close relationship to. Most importantly, the rapist takes advantage of social circumstances to make sure there can be plausible deniability.
Which would make sense with Rebecca being implied to have been Carver's "secretary". He coerced her into a sexual relationship, using his position as self-imposed leader to convince her that he needed sex and that nobody would trust her if she complained about it, and Rebecca clearly felt guilty about 'cheating' on Alvin. My guess is that once she became pregnant, their secret became impossible to hide and Carver became a lot more possessive.
The annoying thing is that this is almost all conjecture, because Telltale didn't give enough of a shit about the Carver/Alvin/Rebecca storyline to even talk about it. I still don't know why it matters who AJ's dad is, or why Alvin killed "George", or what the fuck other people think about Carver's lust for Rebecca. I wish I could say I like that Season 2 hinted at rape in a way that society is less familiar with, but them being too vague about it makes me cynically think that they were too afraid of controversy.
It's like how they could only throw in a gay couple in Episode 2 through the vaguest possible means - never showing them together, having them talk about each other as though they're just close friends, and then killing them off right after they're introduced - to appear 'progressive', but still not deal seriously with the complexities of homosexuality. Season 2 makes a few token efforts at serious topics to make it appear smarter than it really is, but doesn't bother to thoroughly explore them.
And yeah, blame Rebecca for getting raped. Blame Carver for raping someone in the safety of his own fortress. Blame them for not thinking 9 months ahead.
How can you call Rebecca short-sighted for getting impregnated when Jane literally does the same thing?
Woah, woah, woah!
Calm down there, Bokor. It's not even confirmed that she was raped, and more implied that it was free-will. I'm all for Rebecca, I love Rebecca. Can't say I though that almost a year ago, but I do now.
Not a good image for you to accuse rape when it's not implied nor confirmed.