Plot-device characters
One of the complaints I've seen of people on this thread about Season 2 was that some characters were simply put in to be plot devices, characters simply added to help the narrative and had little to no development. Now that is an understandable complaint, and I agree with you, characters like Sarita, Troy, and Arvo were simply added to the game to help the plot advance or for us to hate them. It would have been nice to see them developed, but that, unfortunately, never happened.
But what I feel a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that, while they complain about Season 2's use of these characters, they never seem to mention Season 1's use of them. They act like Season 2 only used plot devices and seem to ignore characters from Season 1 that were simply put in to help the narrative. They cut Season 1 some slack but completely shit on Season 2. Now I am not saying this about all of you, but some on here have heavily criticized Season 2 but fail to mention the, "perfect," Season 1's use of them.
Look at a character like Mark, he was only in Starved for Help, except for the little dialogue between Lee and him in the beginning, we never see how he actually came to join the group. All he does is set up the situation brewing between Lilly and Kenny and talks about Larry. He has little to no development and all he did was provide food for the group, both when he joined and at the St. John's. He did more to help the group when he was dead than when he was alive.
Another character is Chuck, he is one of my favorite characters from the game, but he is simply a plot device. He talks about his family a bit to Lee, but other than that, he is simply in the game to convince Lee to teach Clem how to shoot a gun, cut her hair, and figure out a plan. Not to mention that HIS DEATH WAS OFF SCREEN (another thing, you guys shit on Nick's second death being off screen, I haven't seen anyone shit on Chuck's death at all, at least Nick's version was determinant, Chuck goes out like that no matter what).
This one can go either way I guess, but Katjaa could be considered one. Other than her being a veterinarian, she really doesn't have much development other than the fact that she loves her son more than anything else, which leads to her suicide. But it is her death that starts the downward mental spiral for Kenny. Katjaa is like Sarita, in the game simply to bring Kenny emotional pain that causes him to become mentally unstable and crazy.
Again, you guys have a valid complaint, some characters are put in just for the sake of the plot, but don't completely exempt Season 1 and shit on Season 2, Season 1 has its faults to, it's not perfect.
Comments
The police man is a plot device too :P
Well he's determinant, and I simply forgot he existed until now.
I have to say that the "plot device" characters in season 1 were actually developed a lot more than the ones in season 2.
Also a lot of people complained about Chuck's death way back when episode 4 of season 1 came out according to older users. Also, I felt like Chuck's death was better because we saw the reason he got separated and how he died in the sewer, while Nick is somewhat illogical and full of several holes, the blood around that walker's face is cool, but it doesn't paint a scene. Also, Nick being shot in the shoulder had no point to it whatsoever, because in his episode 2 death he wasn't able to fight off a walker trying to bite his neck even without a shot shoulder (even though he could have previously fought off a few walker's while drunk five days earlier).
Okay, if that's true, then I apologize for my comment about Chuck, it just seems that no one mentions him and simply ignores his death, but my point still stands that it was off screen and pissed me off.
Well if anyone dies offscreen in season 3, I'll doubt that anyone will bring up Chuck or Nick in too much detail. It's more about the present dilemma than the past.
Nick is also both brilliant enough to shoot a guy in the throat and myopic enough to think that said guy - whose gun was pointed down and who was within grabbing distance of Luke - was somehow holding Luke at gunpoint.
The bald one from the start :P
The people Ben was with when they found him in the woods were probably the biggest plot devices of the whole game. Travis's deaths were especially stupid.
Oh, I don't know why, I'm thinking of Officer Mitchell when you decide to go at night, it's been a long day. Yeah, I guess he could be considered one as well.
You can't talk bad about Travis, his dad was special forces, he knew what he was doing.
David Parker would originally play a bigger role, if you saved him, Mark would die from the arrow and you'd find David as food instead, and if you left him behind Mark would be food.
Also, I believe Travis was added in the last minute after the change to episode 2.
Yeah, him being able to shoot that well really contradicted what Pete said about his shooting abilities.
Really, that's interesting, where did you hear that and I wonder why they changed it.
Mark deserved better. I personally would love a DLC on how he joined the group.
Sarita, Matthew, Winston, Sam the Dog, Katjaa, Duck, Walter, Molly, Jane, Arvo, Bonnie, Crabtree, the guy Crabtree killed, Roberto, Eddie, Travis, David Parker, Lee, Herschel, Chet, Officer Andre Mitchell, that bald cop, the Stranger, Luke, AJ, Rebbeca, Stephanie, Beatrice, Irene, Roman, Larry, Andrew St. John, Danny St. John, Brenda St. John, Vernon, Brie, Jolene, Save-Lots Bandits, Chuck, Reggie, Carver, Carlos, Sarah, Troy, The Russians, Tavia, Hank, Alvin, Carley, Doug, Glenn, Clementine, Mark, Christa, Cancer Patients, Lily, Pete, Wyatt, Vince, Shel, Becca, Russel, Justin, Danny, the fat cop on the bus, the black cop who ran from the bus, those old people who shot at Nate, The Walkers, Carver's camp, Mike, Edith, Gil, Randy, that woman in Jane endings, Johnny (guy who got shot be Kenny in Episode 2), Clementine's parents, the Scavengers who attacked Clem and Christa, I think that's everyone.
Basically everyone except Kenny, Omid, Nate, Nick, and Ben
Introducing the biggest and most disgustingly forced plot device ever shoehorned into the Walking Dead...
Short version of the post below: I think the big difference is that the plot devices in season 1 have each accomplished something major in their respective fates that help us to acknowledge their weight in the story despite their small parts.
Mark was around just long enough for us to get that he's a likable guy and be concerned when he gets injured, and his ultimate fate presents to us the big twist of the episode, not to mention his "revenge" on Brenda St. John.
Chuck had a huge role in Clementine's development, arguably the biggest indirect influence, and when he does die, he goes out like a hero and a badass in saving Clementine and fighting to the end, with his role in the story fulfilled. Contrast that with Nick's fate, who, in terms of impact in the story, was aiding in the development of a character who died five minutes later, and then had no role at all before he himself died. I wouldn't even call Nick a plot device character because he serves no real purpose. Chuck may have been a "plot device character" but he had a much bigger impact and complete character than Nick did. Nick paradoxically got more development than Chuck, but felt much less complete. That's the big difference between their deaths, at least to me; it's not that they're off-screen, it's the difference in what they've accomplished.
It also has to do with just how well or badly they were written, like with say... Vernon and Arvo. Arvo is a completely inconsistent character whose initial motivations are barely known because they were never explained (referring to his weird introduction where he might as well have fallen from the damn sky; Vernon also just appears in the story, but with good reason and a connection to the events around him), and we were actively barred from making an actual connection with him simply because that would have ruined his only role in the story. I've actually also criticized Vernon's betrayal in episode 5 of season 1 because it doesn't make much sense or jive with his comments to Lee in episode 4, but at least there you could just assume he was lying and planning to steal the boat anyway. It removes some of the power of his speech, but doesn't border on a plot hole.
The point is, Vernon is a largely decently written character who is admirable in some ways despite his lie which is a gray area anyway, and he serves both his plot purpose, and the role of the outsider who judges Lee's actions depending on what you choose. His motivations are understandable and logical. Arvo's were not.
I also don't hold Katjaa as a plot device character myself, since she feels more fleshed out than some in season 2, but I can agree her death mainly comes about to influence Kenny's story. The big difference between her and Sarita is not only that we were able to converse with and connect with Katjaa a lot more than with Sarita, but that Sarita's death is a mere retread to Katjaa's death. A shadow of what we've already seen, but with less development and less of a shock, because everyone saw it coming from a country mile away. Keeping Sarita alive would have actually been the far more shocking route.
That's not even getting into how some big characters with either lots of attention or a big place in the story just ended up becoming useless plot devices halfway through, like Carlos, Alvin, Sarah, and Nick. When I remember these characters, it's with regret that they led to so little, whereas I don't feel like we missed out on something great with any of the plot-devices of season 1. Even Mr. Parker/Travis, two nobody characters, have the honor of giving us a natural segue from the peace of the Motor Inn to learning of the true nature of the zombie virus, which sets up the Larry situation later in the episode. It's almost comical that they somehow have a bigger revelation and plot significance to offer by simply dying than someone like Carlos, who dies for the development of Sarah, who does nothing but die right after with no hint of redemption or any kind of personal strength that a death like Carlos' seems tailor made for. Or at least it would be comical if it wasn't so sad.
They literally tried to recreate Kenny's arc from Season 1 by adding Sarita as Kenny's girlfriend. Sarita would have been way better as a character without a romantic relationship. Especially with Kenny.
I miss Sarita.
Why are people saying that all the S2 characters have no development? Yeah, they don't have much of a back story, but there's much more to character development than just that.
I'm imagining a Season 2 without Kenny, but with Sarita remaining. Maybe we'd actually have a conversation with her that's not ultimately about Kenneth.
People have a tendency to over-exaggerate Season 2's flaws
It's got a lot of them, and there's a lot of fair criticism about it no doubt, but I never saw it being THAT bad that I'm thinking "it's so god-awful, I'm going to try my hardest to erase the thought of this embarrassing piece of garbage actually existing, and I'm going to post about how shitty it is in every thread related to Season 2 that I possibly can"
I understand why people don't like him, but I like AJ, and this is coming from someone who hates babies in real life, I actually care about AJ.
I agree, people overexaggerate the problems of Season 2 a lot. Does it have problems, yes, but it's still a gret game. What pisses me off is that they act like Season 1 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Is Season 1 better, yes, but it has it's flaws too but people are so quick to tear apart Season 2 and pick out it's flaws but ignore Season 1's.
Like, why even bring Kenny back? What was the purpose? For him to overshadow everyone? Like fuck, dude. It's Lilly or nothing.
Fan pandering I heard was a reason.
Ugh.
Can't believe I used to be apart of it, to be honest.
just saying bringing lilly back would also be fan pandering =P no one should be brought back no matter how much the characters are liked, i love kenny. but it WAS highly improbable he would ever meet anyone else from s1 again
Well, bringing back Lily wouldn't be fan pandering as much as Kenny because his character actually had a closure and a "death" while Lily just left to survive on her own. And there could have been a place for character development for Lily whereas we already knew almost everything about Kenny.
Anyways, I don't enjoy characters coming back like that except for cameos. I just feel like they are instantly overshadowing the new characters because we already know them and so love/hate them.
Yeah, as much as I like Arvo, I do have to say he's somewhat inconsistent. Because when you first meet him he's very nervous and really doesn't want to cause any trouble, but if you don't rob him, his group still comes to rob us. I'm really curious as to what happened off screen, there could be a logical explanation behind it. I'm fine with his transition in episode 5 due to Clem shooting his sister, so it makes sense. And I liked that episode 5 used Arvo's "I don't want to shoot anyone, especially... (Speaking Russian).. uh, little girl" line from episode 4 as foreshadowing for episode 5.
Yeah, his introduction is a bit random, but I liked it for the most part, one of the few people you just randomly meet for no reason.
Yeah, this is a pretty annoying thing, especially because they allow you to say one thing to Arvo, but he doesn't give a response. They could have added in us talking to him just so we could see his perspective somewhat and just have him get angry at us at the end of the conversation, but it would probably ruin his role, so I'm not annoyed about that.
It makes sense for Vernon to do this for me, due to the fact that in episode 4 Vernon will ask if our group came in from the railroad, which we can guess is him observing a heck of a lot of walkers coming to town, so he decides to save his group by stealing the boat.
Okay, but plots need to be interesting and stuff.
And Lilly coming back wouldn't be fan pandering. Need I remind you that Lilly has more haters that fangirls/boys.
I don't know about that, it might be more equal than that, especially since it has been like 2 years since she did what she did. I mean, I hated Lilly after what she did to Carley, and while I still don't forgive her, I don't hate her as much as I nearly did, I'm more mixed to her, not a hater, not a fanboy.
I stand corrected.
I'd rather they don't bring her back at all. Even though, logically speaking, it might have been more interesting AND plausible for her to have returned in Season 2 rather than Kenny.
Kenny had a perfectly fine end to his character arc back in Season 1. Season 2's only bastardized my memory of him.
Same. Kenny was one of my favorites in S1. At first I was happy to have him back in S2 but by the end of it I was wishing he had never appeared in S2...My opinion of him has become soiled. 3:
In all fairness, he could have been aiming somewhere completely away from the throat, but that's where it ended up.
Totally agree with you there. The Walking Dead is my favorite game of all time, but even I can acknowledge the fact that it has issues. Do I love the game still? Of course. People I think just seem to only focus on the negative aspects than the positive aspects which actually outweighs the negatives.