Take a like! I could never ever decide how I felt about Kenny until this post. Fact is, I was on Jane's side in episode 10 up to the final trick with AJ when all that clicked in.
"My point is that she wasn't planning on killing Kenny from the beginning. One of her options was to let him go.
Scaring him off was not her plan. If you shoot Kenny Jane says it herself. "I had to show you what he was capable of!"
She knew Kenny would attack her if she pretended that she had let the baby die. It was all part of her plan to turn Clementine against Kenny, and I personally believe that it was also part of her plan to either kill Kenny in "self defense" or have Clem kill Kenny to save her.
I know that second part is up to interpretation. So unlike some of the more vocal Jane supporters in this thread I'm not going to pretend that other people's interpretations are incorrect just because they happen to disagree with mine.
But I believe she planned that out so she could have an excuse to kill Kenny without turning Clementine against her. And yes, if that is the case, I also believe that that is far more evil than anything Kenny has ever done.
I do think that it was her plan to get Kenny killed in that fight, either by her hand or Clem's. And I think that one act is so much more ev… moreil than anything Kenny has ever done
No, I believe there was more to it than that. I don't believe she wanted to kill Kenny from the beginning, but realized when Kenny wouldn't leave when she asked him to go, that she would have to kill him. (I'm not saying I agree with Jane here; it was a ridiculously stupid plan. I'm just trying to explain what she was thinking.)
Jane felt she had to confront Kenny because he was leading them all on a suicide mission to Wellington. (See everything below the dotted line below to see why this is true, and then meet me back here. Or if you want the abbreviated version, read what's in bold below the line and meet me back here.) She felt that Kenny had to leave the group, as he would not consider any other option rather than going to Wellington. Therefore, her pla… [view original content]
I started to turn on Jane in that fight in the car. She was saying all kinds of things about his family that I thought were way out of line. You don't talk about someone's recently deceased family members like that, no matter who it is.
Even then I feel she was purposely trying to make Kenny as angry as possible, to make Clem look at him differently. But that kind of underhanded behavior just made me look at HER differently.
Then when she showed up without the baby, and told Clem "You're going to see what he really is." I figured out her plan immediately. Which is why I never even considered shooting Kenny. That was her fight that she started. She deserved to die in that fight more than he did.
Take a like! I could never ever decide how I felt about Kenny until this post. Fact is, I was on Jane's side in episode 10 up to the final trick with AJ when all that clicked in.
I started to turn on Jane in that fight in the car. She was saying all kinds of things about his family that I thought were way out of line… more. You don't talk about someone's recently deceased family members like that, no matter who it is.
Even then I feel she was purposely trying to make Kenny as angry as possible, to make Clem look at him differently. But that kind of underhanded behavior just made me look at HER differently.
Then when she showed up without the baby, and told Clem "You're going to see what he really is." I figured out her plan immediately. Which is why I never even considered shooting Kenny. That was her fight that she started. She deserved to die in that fight more than he did.
So when Kenny calls her nothing, that nobody gives a fuck about her and that she doesn't matter, Jane should take that shit?
Both were pi… moressed, BOTH were saying fucked up shit to each other and BOTH were being assholes.
Stop being being bias. No one deserved to die in that scenario.
I personally thought the "I bet you have trouble seeing a lot of things now-a-days" was a bit funny, but everything after that was idiotic.
The only thing I was thinking was 'come on Jane, be the bigger person and shut up now.'
When she says he's turning into Carver, she doesn't mean philosophically. There's quite a few references during In Harm's Way in which Carver is described as having been good once but the stress and responsibility turned him into a monster. Her point was that Kenny also couldn't handle the stress, and was turning into a bad person/liability/take your pick of things you don't want to be around, just like Carver.
I actually think Clem is better off with Kenny than Jane, but in terms of that dimension of the Carver comparison, Kenny comes out poorly.
Jane tried to convince Clem that Kenny was becoming Carver, soon before she acted out this plan. That's where the comparison comes from.
… more She even then follows that up with a story about trying to save someone lead to many deaths. She wants Clem to take away from that that the weak should not be saved if it puts others at risk.
I'm not disregarding any of Jane's positive contributions. I was happy when she came back to the group. But man ... the way she set Kenny up to be killed at the end was so wrong. Much worse than anything Kenny ever did, IMO.
And again, we're arguing about morals ... you're arguing about who is more useful to the group. Those are two entirely different topics. Carver was very good at keeping most of his group alive and together too, he just wasn't so good with the moral stuff ...
I personally thought the "I bet you have trouble seeing a lot of things now-a-days" was a bit funny, but everything after that was idiotic.
The only thing I was thinking was 'come on Jane, be the bigger person and shut up now.'
"But you don't have the same complaint with all the Jane hate/should've never existed/should've been replaced with XXX threads.
Hypocrite." -MichaelAngel0
I couldn't find your comment so i'll write like this.
I don't follow Jane hate, i don't hate her which you would know if you have ready any of the words i wrote. I have a certain opinion about both of them and i try not to indulgde in those Jane/Kenny threads. I may not complain about Jane hate threads or whatever because i don't read and they do not interest me. I don't hate her but i definitely don't love her so i ust mind my own bussiness.
OH and thank you for enlightening me about my hipocracy!! You have known me me for so long that is completely ok for you to insult me because you know me so well. I have to hurry now and tell everyone who knows me how wrong they've been about me and than you showed up and showed what ind of a hypocryte i am. THANK YOU.
What? You don't follow Jane hate, but here you are agreeing with a thread that trying to compare her to sociopathic monster. Not saying you can't agree with him/her, if you want to, but you're obviously contradicting yourself.
I called you a hypocrite because you say you're tired of the Kenny/Jane threads, you say you don't like people hating on Kenny, but when a Kenny > Jane thread comes you're quick to join again. You think want you want, it's our opinion, but know that you contradict yourself.
"But you don't have the same complaint with all the Jane hate/should've never existed/should've been replaced with XXX threads.
Hypocrite."… more -MichaelAngel0
I couldn't find your comment so i'll write like this.
I don't follow Jane hate, i don't hate her which you would know if you have ready any of the words i wrote. I have a certain opinion about both of them and i try not to indulgde in those Jane/Kenny threads. I may not complain about Jane hate threads or whatever because i don't read and they do not interest me. I don't hate her but i definitely don't love her so i ust mind my own bussiness.
OH and thank you for enlightening me about my hipocracy!! You have known me me for so long that is completely ok for you to insult me because you know me so well. I have to hurry now and tell everyone who knows me how wrong they've been about me and than you showed up and showed what ind of a hypocryte i am. THANK YOU.
I thought their argument was somewhat humorous, though I wished they would have used some of the unused dialog.
Jane would have said, "Yo… moreu going to beat me Kenny? Because I'll put up more of a fight than that kid did."
Some of the unused dialog for their argument is really good.
"My point is that she wasn't planning on killing Kenny from the beginning. One of her options was to let him go.
Scaring him off was… more not her plan. If you shoot Kenny Jane says it herself. "I had to show you what he was capable of!"
She knew Kenny would attack her if she pretended that she had let the baby die. It was all part of her plan to turn Clementine against Kenny, and I personally believe that it was also part of her plan to either kill Kenny in "self defense" or have Clem kill Kenny to save her.
I know that second part is up to interpretation. So unlike some of the more vocal Jane supporters in this thread I'm not going to pretend that other people's interpretations are incorrect just because they happen to disagree with mine.
But I believe she planned that out so she could have an excuse to kill Kenny without turning Clementine against her. And yes, if that is the case, I also believe that that is far more evil than anything Kenny has ever done.
Jane abandoned her own sister, what makes you think she'd protect Clem? Let alone AJ who she clearly doesn't give a shit about. Jane is pretty unstable and the biggest threat to Clem there is in my opinion.
Eh, one thing I don't believe is that Jane would ever be a threat to Clementine. Just like I don't think Kenny would ever be one.
But if… more Clem was completely on-board with whatever Carver was selling (which my Clem never would be), he'd probably never be a threat to her either. Doesn't make him a good person.
I DID NOT say Jane is a monster, i said "I don't think Jane is a monster". Do you ever read what other people say? I am tired, i just joined the thread to say yes i agree Jane is more like Carver, not Jane is sociopathic monste. I didn't attack her nor dfend her, just expressed my opinion. And that is the only comment i wrote here, expect replying to your nosence of accusing me of some things i did not write.
What? You don't follow Jane hate, but here you are agreeing with a thread that trying to compare her to sociopathic monster. Not saying you … morecan't agree with him/her, if you want to, but you're obviously contradicting yourself.
I called you a hypocrite because you say you're tired of the Kenny/Jane threads, you say you don't like people hating on Kenny, but when a Kenny > Jane thread comes you're quick to join again. You think want you want, it's our opinion, but know that you contradict yourself.
Not even close, Carver had a reasoning for both of those instances.
He killed Reggie and shortly afterwards mentioned: "Weakness.. Incompetence it puts us all at risk" which was his motive for killing Reggie.
His reason for beating Kenny was also beyond him "letting his anger get the best of him" it was simply to teach the group not to try anything stupid again or they would get the same treatment. It was clearly to set an example. Thats also why he left AFTER mentioning that the group would get "no supper tonight, maybe that'll give you some perspective" which again indicates that he was all about giving them a lessong rather than just getting angry and acting impulsive like you suggested.
Nice try though, keep spreading bullshit if that makes you sleep better at night.
I DID NOT say Jane is a monster, i said "I don't think Jane is a monster". Do you ever read what other people say? I am tired, i just joined… more the thread to say yes i agree Jane is more like Carver, not Jane is sociopathic monste. I didn't attack her nor dfend her, just expressed my opinion. And that is the only comment i wrote here, expect replying to your nosence of accusing me of some things i did not write.
Thank you for your opinion of me.
Of course she wasn't talking about their philosophies. But she was trying to turn Clem against Kenny by saying Kenny was headed down the same path, but it really was an entirely different path, because Kenny operated in such a different way than Carver did. If one of the two seemed to be headed down Carver's path by the end, I think it was Jane.
And you can't use "liability" and "bad person" interchangeably. Carter killed Reggie because he was a liability in his eyes. Eliminating people for that reason alone was something Carver was totally behind.
I'm not entirely convinced that the similarity between Carver's philosophy and Jane's decision at the end was unintentioned by the developers either. Jane even winds up back in Carver's camp in her ending.
When she says he's turning into Carver, she doesn't mean philosophically. There's quite a few references during In Harm's Way in which Carve… morer is described as having been good once but the stress and responsibility turned him into a monster. Her point was that Kenny also couldn't handle the stress, and was turning into a bad person/liability/take your pick of things you don't want to be around, just like Carver.
I actually think Clem is better off with Kenny than Jane, but in terms of that dimension of the Carver comparison, Kenny comes out poorly.
I seriously can't think of any similarities between Kenny and Carver other than the fact that both are quick to anger. The two really aren't very similar at all.
Another pointless defence from Kenny's fan. He was a pain in the ass for everybody. EVERYONE noticed something was wrong with him. He was arguing with whole group and was agressive. Comparing Jane with Carver is ridiculous. She was lone wolf. She knew, who will cause trouble and didn't want to babysit people. Came back for Clementine because she reminded her lost sister, who refused to go on. There's nothing you can blame Jane for. She tried to demonstrate how insane Kenny was and guy was more crazy than she thought. He wanted to kill her when there was NO REASON for that. In ZA bad things are happening. It's very bad time for babies but Kenny didn't listen. He wanted blood. Tried to stab her with knife - and why? Because didn't like her? No excuse for that. Only right thing to do - stop him. Don't throw mud at other characters because it won't make your favourite cleaner.
Yes we definitely don't. I guess we should all just sit and obey him and nod sbecause in my opinion he likes to argue, otherways i can't see a reason why is there so much attacking.
You really didn't even address any of the guy's points. Obviously Jane and Carver had different goals (Jane - herself, Carver - himself + his community), but that doesn't change the fact that the two of them had some similar philosophies in regards to survival. Certainly far more similarities than Kenny had with Carver.
I'm not about to go out and say that Jane and Carver are the same (they aren't), but in terms of their morally grey decision making and cruelty, they are comparable in that sense.
Another pointless defence from Kenny's fan. He was a pain in the ass for everybody. EVERYONE noticed something was wrong with him. He was ar… moreguing with whole group and was agressive. Comparing Jane with Carver is ridiculous. She was lone wolf. She knew, who will cause trouble and didn't want to babysit people. Came back for Clementine because she reminded her lost sister, who refused to go on. There's nothing you can blame Jane for. She tried to demonstrate how insane Kenny was and guy was more crazy than she thought. He wanted to kill her when there was NO REASON for that. In ZA bad things are happening. It's very bad time for babies but Kenny didn't listen. He wanted blood. Tried to stab her with knife - and why? Because didn't like her? No excuse for that. Only right thing to do - stop him. Don't throw mud at other characters because it won't make your favourite cleaner.
I started to turn on Jane in that fight in the car. She was saying all kinds of things about his family that I thought were way out of line… more. You don't talk about someone's recently deceased family members like that, no matter who it is.
Even then I feel she was purposely trying to make Kenny as angry as possible, to make Clem look at him differently. But that kind of underhanded behavior just made me look at HER differently.
Then when she showed up without the baby, and told Clem "You're going to see what he really is." I figured out her plan immediately. Which is why I never even considered shooting Kenny. That was her fight that she started. She deserved to die in that fight more than he did.
You really didn't even address any of the guy's points. Obviously Jane and Carver had different goals (Jane - herself, Carver - himself + hi… mores community), but that doesn't change the fact that the two of them had some similar philosophies in regards to survival. Certainly far more similarities than Kenny had with Carver.
I'm not about to go out and say that Jane and Carver are the same (they aren't), but in terms of their morally grey decision making and cruelty, they are comparable in that sense.
Not even close, Carver had a reasoning for both of those instances.
He killed Reggie and shortly afterwards mentioned: "Weakness.. Incomp… moreetence it puts us all at risk" which was his motive for killing Reggie.
His reason for beating Kenny was also beyond him "letting his anger get the best of him" it was simply to teach the group not to try anything stupid again or they would get the same treatment. It was clearly to set an example. Thats also why he left AFTER mentioning that the group would get "no supper tonight, maybe that'll give you some perspective" which again indicates that he was all about giving them a lessong rather than just getting angry and acting impulsive like you suggested.
Nice try though, keep spreading bullshit if that makes you sleep better at night.
So you mean, even tho I said that her opinion was not this issue, that what you come up with? I said she was a hypocrite because she claims to be over this Kenny/Jane shit, and she hates it when people shit on Kenny, but when a Kenny >>>> Jane thread pops up, she's right there in support of the Jane hate. I don't mind her having an opinion, but what she's said to me, and how she's quick to join in on the piling on of Jane, when she dislikes the piling on of Kenny, IS being a hypocrite. That's all; not even starting a "who is better" debate.
Comments
Take a like! I could never ever decide how I felt about Kenny until this post. Fact is, I was on Jane's side in episode 10 up to the final trick with AJ when all that clicked in.
Scaring him off was not her plan. If you shoot Kenny Jane says it herself. "I had to show you what he was capable of!"
She knew Kenny would attack her if she pretended that she had let the baby die. It was all part of her plan to turn Clementine against Kenny, and I personally believe that it was also part of her plan to either kill Kenny in "self defense" or have Clem kill Kenny to save her.
I know that second part is up to interpretation. So unlike some of the more vocal Jane supporters in this thread I'm not going to pretend that other people's interpretations are incorrect just because they happen to disagree with mine.
But I believe she planned that out so she could have an excuse to kill Kenny without turning Clementine against her. And yes, if that is the case, I also believe that that is far more evil than anything Kenny has ever done.
I started to turn on Jane in that fight in the car. She was saying all kinds of things about his family that I thought were way out of line. You don't talk about someone's recently deceased family members like that, no matter who it is.
Even then I feel she was purposely trying to make Kenny as angry as possible, to make Clem look at him differently. But that kind of underhanded behavior just made me look at HER differently.
Then when she showed up without the baby, and told Clem "You're going to see what he really is." I figured out her plan immediately. Which is why I never even considered shooting Kenny. That was her fight that she started. She deserved to die in that fight more than he did.
So when Kenny calls her nothing, that nobody gives a fuck about her and that she doesn't matter, Jane should take that shit?
Both were pissed, BOTH were saying fucked up shit to each other and BOTH were being assholes.
Stop being being bias. No one deserved to die in that scenario.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx4jn77VKlQ
I personally thought the "I bet you have trouble seeing a lot of things now-a-days" was a bit funny, but everything after that was idiotic.
The only thing I was thinking was 'come on Jane, be the bigger person and shut up now.'
Yeah, she could've, but it's Kenny.
We'd all at some point want to fling shit back at him; fan of him, or not.
The only time I was ever really mad at Kenny was when he beat up arvo
When she says he's turning into Carver, she doesn't mean philosophically. There's quite a few references during In Harm's Way in which Carver is described as having been good once but the stress and responsibility turned him into a monster. Her point was that Kenny also couldn't handle the stress, and was turning into a bad person/liability/take your pick of things you don't want to be around, just like Carver.
I actually think Clem is better off with Kenny than Jane, but in terms of that dimension of the Carver comparison, Kenny comes out poorly.
I cringed on the inside when he told her to get her feet off the dash. Can't blame Jane for not taking that one.
No he did let his anger get the best of him with Reggie and Kenny.
Like I said, at some point, Kenny's shenanigans really piss people off. For you, it was him beating Arvo.
I thought their argument was somewhat humorous, though I wished they would have used some of the unused dialog.
Jane would have said, "You going to beat me Kenny? Because I'll put up more of a fight than that kid did."
Some of the unused dialog for their argument is really good.
"But you don't have the same complaint with all the Jane hate/should've never existed/should've been replaced with XXX threads.
Hypocrite." -MichaelAngel0
I couldn't find your comment so i'll write like this.
I don't follow Jane hate, i don't hate her which you would know if you have ready any of the words i wrote. I have a certain opinion about both of them and i try not to indulgde in those Jane/Kenny threads. I may not complain about Jane hate threads or whatever because i don't read and they do not interest me. I don't hate her but i definitely don't love her so i ust mind my own bussiness.
OH and thank you for enlightening me about my hipocracy!! You have known me me for so long that is completely ok for you to insult me because you know me so well. I have to hurry now and tell everyone who knows me how wrong they've been about me and than you showed up and showed what ind of a hypocryte i am. THANK YOU.
What? You don't follow Jane hate, but here you are agreeing with a thread that trying to compare her to sociopathic monster. Not saying you can't agree with him/her, if you want to, but you're obviously contradicting yourself.
I called you a hypocrite because you say you're tired of the Kenny/Jane threads, you say you don't like people hating on Kenny, but when a Kenny > Jane thread comes you're quick to join again. You think want you want, it's our opinion, but know that you contradict yourself.
Where do you find the unused dialogue?
Modders from the other forum, particularly Vivec, usually find them when snooping through the files.
She most likely wanted him beaten, on the ground, begging for Clem's help. Jane probably planned for Clem to leave with her when he was like that.
Jane abandoned her own sister, what makes you think she'd protect Clem? Let alone AJ who she clearly doesn't give a shit about. Jane is pretty unstable and the biggest threat to Clem there is in my opinion.
I DID NOT say Jane is a monster, i said "I don't think Jane is a monster". Do you ever read what other people say? I am tired, i just joined the thread to say yes i agree Jane is more like Carver, not Jane is sociopathic monste. I didn't attack her nor dfend her, just expressed my opinion. And that is the only comment i wrote here, expect replying to your nosence of accusing me of some things i did not write.
Thank you for your opinion of me.
Not even close, Carver had a reasoning for both of those instances.
He killed Reggie and shortly afterwards mentioned: "Weakness.. Incompetence it puts us all at risk" which was his motive for killing Reggie.
His reason for beating Kenny was also beyond him "letting his anger get the best of him" it was simply to teach the group not to try anything stupid again or they would get the same treatment. It was clearly to set an example. Thats also why he left AFTER mentioning that the group would get "no supper tonight, maybe that'll give you some perspective" which again indicates that he was all about giving them a lessong rather than just getting angry and acting impulsive like you suggested.
Nice try though, keep spreading bullshit if that makes you sleep better at night.
Looks at thread...Looks at person causing trouble...
Well...I predicted this.
Walks away.
Yeah me too, i wrote it on page 1.That a certain person will get invlved and thee will be a war.
[removed]
Of course she wasn't talking about their philosophies. But she was trying to turn Clem against Kenny by saying Kenny was headed down the same path, but it really was an entirely different path, because Kenny operated in such a different way than Carver did. If one of the two seemed to be headed down Carver's path by the end, I think it was Jane.
And you can't use "liability" and "bad person" interchangeably. Carter killed Reggie because he was a liability in his eyes. Eliminating people for that reason alone was something Carver was totally behind.
I'm not entirely convinced that the similarity between Carver's philosophy and Jane's decision at the end was unintentioned by the developers either. Jane even winds up back in Carver's camp in her ending.
I seriously can't think of any similarities between Kenny and Carver other than the fact that both are quick to anger. The two really aren't very similar at all.
Another pointless defence from Kenny's fan. He was a pain in the ass for everybody. EVERYONE noticed something was wrong with him. He was arguing with whole group and was agressive. Comparing Jane with Carver is ridiculous. She was lone wolf. She knew, who will cause trouble and didn't want to babysit people. Came back for Clementine because she reminded her lost sister, who refused to go on. There's nothing you can blame Jane for. She tried to demonstrate how insane Kenny was and guy was more crazy than she thought. He wanted to kill her when there was NO REASON for that. In ZA bad things are happening. It's very bad time for babies but Kenny didn't listen. He wanted blood. Tried to stab her with knife - and why? Because didn't like her? No excuse for that. Only right thing to do - stop him. Don't throw mud at other characters because it won't make your favourite cleaner.
Yes we definitely don't. I guess we should all just sit and obey him and nod sbecause in my opinion he likes to argue, otherways i can't see a reason why is there so much attacking.
You really didn't even address any of the guy's points. Obviously Jane and Carver had different goals (Jane - herself, Carver - himself + his community), but that doesn't change the fact that the two of them had some similar philosophies in regards to survival. Certainly far more similarities than Kenny had with Carver.
I'm not about to go out and say that Jane and Carver are the same (they aren't), but in terms of their morally grey decision making and cruelty, they are comparable in that sense.
She said a TON of times too; DON'T GET INVOLVED. So I follow this qualified adult's instructions!
Good to see someone around here using his brain, its a rare sight nowadays.. :-)
Why, thank you.
Trying to keep a conversation going with a banned member?
What's your problem? It just seemed like he was out of control for a bit, to me.
Trying to keep a conversation going with a banned member?
So you mean, even tho I said that her opinion was not this issue, that what you come up with? I said she was a hypocrite because she claims to be over this Kenny/Jane shit, and she hates it when people shit on Kenny, but when a Kenny >>>> Jane thread pops up, she's right there in support of the Jane hate. I don't mind her having an opinion, but what she's said to me, and how she's quick to join in on the piling on of Jane, when she dislikes the piling on of Kenny, IS being a hypocrite. That's all; not even starting a "who is better" debate.
War?
Buddy did I say a single damn thing about a war in that post? No.
You are causing trouble.
Where's the war? I've been posted quite a few times, and practically all my discussions have been civil. Check thru the thread for proof.
War?
Buddy did I say a single damn thing about a war in that post? No.
You are causing trouble.
But I never mentioned you in that post and you are making assumptions.