"Kenny would die for Clem, Jane wouldn´t"
Seriously? Because most, if not all of these people, chose Kenny at the end, so they WITNESSED Jane dying for Clementine. In Jane´s mind, Kenny was too dangerous to have around, but instead of just walking away and go on with her life as a lone survivor that she is used to, she did it by the hard way: She provoked and confronted Kenny to save Clementine from him too, risking her life for her. You may not agree with Jane´s view about Kenny, you may think that faking a baby´s death is really fucked up, you may think her plan was stupid and reckless, but that´s what Jane really though that she was doing.
Yes, she wanted to leave Sarah, but Sarah´s issues, making her an even bigger liability with Carlos´ death and Jaime´s trauma still affecting Jane strongly, made a really unfavorable situation for Jane to save her, however she had some good character development after: Jane decided to face head on her past deciding to stick with Clementine and redeem herself for the sister she couldn´t protect, this being a sign of Jane getting over her trauma. I doubt Jane would go back and let Clementine die when she already made this far.
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Jane also listens to Clementine. I'm not trying to put hate on Kenny here but I don't recall Kenny actually ever saving Clementine, I only remember Jane saving Clementine many times and she was only in 3 episodes, compared to Kenny who has been in 9.
I think Jane knew she was going to die, although she didn't save herself by telling Kenny that AJ was alive, she truly did want Clementine to see what Kenny can be capable of, sacrificing herself so that Clementine can see that she may await the same fate, although Kenny shouts at Clementine, I don't think he'd go to such extents as killing her directly, despite how angry he can get. Although he already carelessly pushed Clementine down to the ground knowing she had an injury once already, this was before the actual fight started too.
She didn't die for Clem, she died for her own ideology. Because of her sick and twisted mind she would rather die than paint herself as a liar and manipulator if she were to reveal it was all a lie. If the baby didn't cry she would have probably left him there. Who cares anyways, crap character in a crap episode with a crap final conflict.
1st Image: Why would Jane stick around to see the last person she had any care for die? Clementine was the ONLY reason Jane went to save Luke and Sarah, you can't seriously expect Jane just to risk her life when there's no actual reason for her to do so.
2nd image: Jane KNOWS Clementine can survive, Jane TOLD Clementine to make sure they're dead. Jane notices Clementine is being attacked by a Walker after she confronts two Walkers on her own.
Whoever said that presumably killed Kenny.
You could argue Kenny taking blame for the radio was saving her life, even though Kenny didn't die we have no idea what would have happened had Clem given the radio back, and at the time, Kenny was doing it for her.
Kenny was the one who forced Clem to take the radio in the first place, but I have to admit that it was heroic of him to lose an eye for her. Even if it was unnecessary - Carver had much more of a reason to beat up an aggressive man than he would have to slap a little girl.
She would've gotten smacked a bit. I guarantee the reason Kenny's punishment was so severe was him constantly causing Carver trouble. Killing Johnny, (determinedly) shooting and wounding Carver, starting a fight that resulted in an entry point being exposed, and as far as Carver knew stealing property. Kenny had many warnings, so naturally, Carver was a bit more "overzealous" with Kenny's punishment.
He liked Clem, he did not like Kenny.
Regardless of Carver's unreliability, him being slightly more lenient to Clem is implied in the teaser trailer at the end of Episode 3, where Clem says "Carver wouldn't have been so vicious/wouldn't have hurt me like this."
The only character that books it offscreen after you die is Jane, wonder why is that?
Your post would be valid if Jane didnt go "Clem.. help.." you see she doesnt want to get killed following her characterization as a selfish person.
Kenny also, unlike Jane, promises he would never hurt Clementine, and yet they both push her violently to the ground during the fight if she gets in their way.
He's less shiny shiny than the fanboys want to think.
If you're about to get stabbed in the chest wouldn't you try to ask the nearest person for help?
Kenny pushes Clementine away regardless before the fight begins
What do you mean by books it?
Because she's "E.V.I.L."
Muahahaha! No good can come from a woman that runs off screen for a second in what is essential a non-canon game over screen.
Pictures Worth More than 1000 Words:
I doubt Carver would have smacked or hurt Clementine in any physical way for stealing the walkie-talkie. Punishment itself yes, because she admitted to breaking the community rules in front of the whole group, but smacking isn't the only solution that could've been used there. Carver might even be satisfied that Clem managed to fool him for a while.
Honestly, I don't get why you'd use these to help your argument because there's a big difference in Sarita and Clem. One's just a side character and the other is the character you're actually playing as. You're SUPPOSED to die because it's a game over scene, why would TT program that in to have Jane magically save you?
Besides, the death scenes aren't even canon so...
Then thats not sacrificing yourself, given she was not willing to die for her.
Firstly, you've specifically picked and chosen pictures, not representative ones. I could just as easily put up a gif of Jane risking her life to save Clem on the lake and in the shelter while kenny focuses on beating up arvo, and Kenny shoving Clem away just before the fight with Jane.
Secondly, in the first gif Clem is 100% dead. In the second one she can still be saved.
Thirdly, in the second gif Kenny is trying to save Sarita, not Clem.
So yeah, pretty useless post there.
Oh, and fourthly, the phrase is 'A picture is worth a 1000 words', not 'worth more than a 1000 words'.
...she's not at all characterised as selfish. In fact, she grows a lot in that department.
She cares a lot about Clem surviving. Thats not selfish. Also, she lets the family in at the end if you let her make the decision Thats not selfish.
Also, since when is not wanting to die selfish?!
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What did you want her to do after Clem is dead, hold her dead body and cry over it after shes known you for literally 2 days?
In that gif Clem CANNOT be saved. The walker bites her neck hard.
Wait, let me get this straight, you think Jane should have given her life - when she didn't need to - to prove she likes Clem?
So you think, what, Kenny should run into a horde of walkers unarmed and voluntarily get bitten to prove how much he 'loves' Clem?
She is trying to show Clem that is Clem lost AJ she would be in danger. She succeeds. But Kenny goes even further than she expects. So she asks for help.
I seriously don't see how her wanting to be saved from being stabbed is selfish there.
...did you not even read my post?
In a sense she was and wasn't. She tried to ask Clementine for help, meaning that she wasn't sacrificing herself but she also didn't say AJ was alive, so Jane knew that if she died, Clementine would know what Kenny is capable of and Jane actually seemed surprised if Clementine chooses her over Kenny, so in a sense she did die for Clementine to see how dangerous someone so close to her can be, she may ask for help but she could still die showing Clementine the brutality of the world without saving herself by saying AJ is alive.
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The Jane situation is actually fascinating in looking at the mentality of the sector of Kenny fans who just repeate everything he says and says all he does is unambiguously right (while somehow still being 'flawed'..?)
Because the entire 'Jane is selfish' argument literally comes from what Kenny says, not from any evidence in episode 5. She constantly puts her life at risk for Clem in episode 5, saves Kenny's life, lets in the family (strangers!) at the end...she actually grows. She starts of being selfish, but Clem shows her that she need not be. Her character can grow, whereas no matter what Clem does, Kenny always beats Arvo, always tries to turn the group into a dictatorship by going against their vote, and shows no departure from his angry propensity.
He even acknowledges in the Kenny ending that he doesn't trust himself to look after her - because while he may want to change, he can't.
Kenny has been affected horribly by the events of the apocalypse. He cannot be saved, and all his actions show that. The fact that Jane's character grows shows that she still has potential to recover her humanity, and indeed she does this.
he most hilarious thing is when some Kenny fans say Jane saving Clem from the lake by putting her own life at risk by running over cracking ice is still seflish, because they think Jane views Clem as a replacement for her sister.
Like, really guys? Kenny suddenly cares about Clem hugely in season 2 when they have little to no interaction in season 1 and even accidentally CALLS her by his son's name, and you think Jane is viewing Clem as a replacement?
It's really weird. There are so many reasons why Kenny is an okay person, and yet people hardly ever list them, or when they do they try to justify his shortcomings.
I've always said, the single biggest lie told on this forum is 'I like Kenny because he's s flawed', as these people (often, not always, as lots of them think logically) go on to admit none of said supposed 'flaws'.
Jane, someone who was forced to let go of a love one that died, this being her actual first experience at seeing someone she only began to care about die. Jane barely knew Clementine at that moment, do you expect her to save someone who can't be saved? Kenny has had a history of not being able to let go, he couldn't stand the fact that Duck was dying regardless and he couldn't stand the fact that Sarita was dying regardless, he gets mad if his family is in danger and both times he's transitioned his sadness into anger with Clementine. Kenny loved Sarita, he knew her longer and closer than Jane did Clementine, so Kenny had more reason to save the person he cared about. Also, it's uncanon, meaning that the whole first scene never actually happened.
There both horrible people, Janes lucky I hate Kenny more than her
That's a no, then, I fear.
How exactly is this even comparable? I don't remember seeing Kenny try to save Clementine when she could die uncanonly whenever she was near him, also if I recall, Kenny never actually saves Clementine, Kenny literally didn't save anyone this Season, Jane saved Clementine more than anyone this season.
Almost as if..he isn;t perfect?!?!!?! :O
Not selfish? She left her sister to die.
They both have good intentions, it's just they are poor at expressing and using them.
I draw the line between Jane and Kenny in that Jane shows ability to improve in her shortcomings, whereas Kenny only gets worse in his as time goes on.
She didnt leave her she just let her choose after month of forcing her on when she didnt want to. Her sister didnt want to live after months what was she supposed to do die with her?
Only because she had no way of getting her out of where they were trying to leave. She had been unwilling to go on for MONTHS yet Jane had always found some way to keep her living by having to physically move her forward. Don't forget the context of the situation.
How is that selfish when Jaime wanted to die from the beginning? The only selfish act she did with Jaime was constantly pushing her to live in a world she didn't want to live in.
WOW??!!! REALLY AGAIN??!!! Also if jane really dont care about my clem , jane wouldnt bother try to teach her some basic survival skills(ep 4) and she wouldnt save my clem drowning from the icy lake...