I don't think they mean it by saying that it is AJ's fault if he dies, or that he has a conscious responsibility to take care of Kenny emoti… moreonally...It is that in a world like this, it is likely that AJ will die, so Kenny's morality chain is extremely fragile.
But more so for a baby than any other person. AJ has a higher chance of dying because he needs constant care and cannot keep himself safe because he's a baby.
How 'bout both Kenny and Jane are terrible people, and Clementine was better off without either of those chucklefucks driving her into a shallow grave?
But that's the reason Kenny is connected, he likes to protect people who can't protect themselves like children...Arvo is a different thing if anyone brings that up. Kenny is still connected to Clem but in Episode 4 he says she doesn't need him because she can protect herself better than most people.
But more so for a baby than any other person. AJ has a higher chance of dying because he needs constant care and cannot keep himself safe because he's a baby.
It is kinda sadistic to see Jane dead when she's killed for something she technically haven't done, which was killing a baby. Her only crime was to hide the baby in a safe location and pretend that he was dead, just to provoke a reaction out of Kenny and expect him to completely lose it and attempt to kill her for something she hasn't done. Had Kenny not reacted the way he did, up to the point where the baby's cries are heard, then Jane's plan would have crashed and burned.
But instead, she ended up proving the point that Kenny could have very well attempted to kill an friend for losing the baby in a tragic incident. What if Luke was alive at this point and had been the one to lose the baby in an accident during the blizzard that Kenny took them to? What if Clementine had the baby only to lose him along the way and had to meet up with Kenny expecting the baby in her hands? Would we have been as happy to see them die by the hands of Kenny over the situation that was out of their control?
I agree that what Jane did was insane and stupid, risked Clementine's life just to prove a point that Clementine may have already known to begin with, and may have ended with her death.
But from what I gathered with Kenny's stubbornness, unwillingness to listen, and irrationality by taking the remaining group to a place that may not exist with no supplies left, with a blizzard on the way, and potentially stuck in the middle of nowhere with walkers around...perhaps Jane felt that her life as well as Clementine were in danger due to Kenny's actions potentially leading them to their deaths, and fabricated a story about the baby dying in an accident to put him in a secret test, all to convince Clementine that she had to leave him for her own safety or follow him and risk dying for a pipe dream.
That doesn't matter, Jane acted like he was dead. It wasn't that Kenny didn't see anything and go after her while she was saying it was aliv… moree. No, she brought that on herself, she wanted everything to go down the way it did...Mostly. I hate Jane's guts, I dislike Kenny but there isn't anything sadistic about wanting Jane dead, there is however something sadistic in acting like a baby's dead to make an old crazy guy lose his sanity and attack you so you can have him killed.
LOL. Idk if every caring parent would automatically assume a non stranger incidentally kills a baby even if they know that person does not like babies. I would think I'd have to see the body first before I'd react angrily.
I think any caring parent would have reacted the same.
That's a big assumption based on one experience of a fictional man who's off his rockers. Any sane person wouldn't have tried to kill someone back in retaliation based on no evidence.
We have to remove the darkness from the world so bye Jane
Hiding a baby with good intentions = Evil
Murdering somebody based on no evidence for selfish reasons = Good
If by safe location do you mean in walker infested territory during a blizzard? Also what would have happened if the baby didn't cry, you can't honestly expect the baby crying was apart of her plan. What if Jane's plan went through to have Kenny killed and then the baby didn't cry? Jane would have left. Jane didn't care about the baby.
I also want to ask what do you say attempt to kill a friend? Jane isn't Kenny's friend in the slightest. However there's a difference between Kenny fighting Jane and Kenny fighting anyone else. If Luke had lost it then it might have went the same way and Kenny might have been a bit softer on Luke and Kenny wouldn't attack Clem.
Jane intended to kill Kenny from the beginning, it wasn't just her plan to show his true side. She knew this would drive him into a crazed rage and it was her plan to kill him and then say it got out of hand and she had to. This is proved when you attempt to make Jane leave and she says something like "No, i'm putting this fucker out of his misery."
It is kinda sadistic to see Jane dead when she's killed for something she technically haven't done, which was killing a baby. Her only crime… more was to hide the baby in a safe location and pretend that he was dead, just to provoke a reaction out of Kenny and expect him to completely lose it and attempt to kill her for something she hasn't done. Had Kenny not reacted the way he did, up to the point where the baby's cries are heard, then Jane's plan would have crashed and burned.
But instead, she ended up proving the point that Kenny could have very well attempted to kill an friend for losing the baby in a tragic incident. What if Luke was alive at this point and had been the one to lose the baby in an accident during the blizzard that Kenny took them to? What if Clementine had the baby only to lose him along the way and had to meet up with Kenny expecting the baby in her hands? Would we have been as happy to see them die by the hands of Kenny o… [view original content]
LOL. Idk if every caring parent would automatically assume a non stranger incidentally kills a baby even if they know that person does not like babies. I would think I'd have to see the body first before I'd react angrily.
Being calm and rational won't be the first thought that comes to someone's mind when someone loses their child. Jane even says "it was an accident". What do you think she meant?
LOL. Idk if every caring parent would automatically assume a non stranger incidentally kills a baby even if they know that person does not like babies. I would think I'd have to see the body first before I'd react angrily.
I'm certainly not kidding. It feels like the baby was born just to give Kenny something to live for, and I don't feel like that's fair to him. He shouldn't have the burden of a man's sanity on his shoulders. What if he's not enough to keep Kenny from cracking, or yes, what if he dies? He's an object, not a person.
I don't think they mean it by saying that it is AJ's fault if he dies, or that he has a conscious responsibility to take care of Kenny emoti… moreonally...It is that in a world like this, it is likely that AJ will die, so Kenny's morality chain is extremely fragile.
Being calm and rational won't be the first thought that comes to someone's mind when someone loses their child. Jane even says "it was an accident". What do you think she meant?
Any sane person wouldn't have tried to kill someone back in retaliation based on no evidence.
That's just the thing of it, though. Who is still sane in the world of the walking dead?
The rationale we argue by right now, from the comfort of our own houses, in a world that hasn't gone through complete societal breakdown, is long gone in that world. It's not a luxury anyone still has, and the only people that still have some semblance of it are the handful that are still trying to hold on to their pre-apocalyptic beliefs.
I think any caring parent would have reacted the same.
That's a big assumption based on one experience of a fictional man who's off … morehis rockers. Any sane person wouldn't have tried to kill someone back in retaliation based on no evidence.
We have to remove the darkness from the world so bye Jane
Hiding a baby with good intentions = Evil
Murdering somebody based on no evidence for selfish reasons = Good
There is nothing that screams "Good Intentions" about making someone believe a baby is dead. She could have said he wasn't dead. Go lose someone's kid and say "it wa an accident" see what happens
I think any caring parent would have reacted the same.
That's a big assumption based on one experience of a fictional man who's off … morehis rockers. Any sane person wouldn't have tried to kill someone back in retaliation based on no evidence.
We have to remove the darkness from the world so bye Jane
Hiding a baby with good intentions = Evil
Murdering somebody based on no evidence for selfish reasons = Good
I'm going to assume this was suppose to be replied to me.
First off, it's a baby...It again has no idea what's happening, it's not going to leave the group or anything like that. It doesn't have dreams or ambitions, it's a baby. You think it knows it has someone's sanity on it's shoulders? No, it's a baby, it probably can't even distinguish who is who right now.
What if he's not enough to keep Kenny from cracking, or yes, what if he dies?
It is apparently and if it dies...Well...Look at Jane.
I'm certainly not kidding. It feels like the baby was born just to give Kenny something to live for, and I don't feel like that's fair to hi… morem. He shouldn't have the burden of a man's sanity on his shoulders. What if he's not enough to keep Kenny from cracking, or yes, what if he dies? He's an object, not a person.
There is nothing that screams "Good Intentions" about making someone believe a baby is dead
Her good intentions were to protect Clementine by showing what how dangerous Kenny has become that he would legit murder someone just based on a hunch. You fail to see Jane's motives and prefer to see it on one side only.
Go lose someone's kid and say "it was an accident" see what happens
Comparing fictional events to real life situations again. Why on earth would I do that? There's no reason. Jane had the reason and the motive for her plan. These comparisions you keep making are ludacrous.
There is nothing that screams "Good Intentions" about making someone believe a baby is dead. She could have said he wasn't dead. Go lose someone's kid and say "it wa an accident" see what happens
The baby was hidden in a car in a location she knew he'd be safe and away from the walkers. If she truly wanted to baby dead out of pragmatism, why inside a car? Why not just throw him to the walkers for them to feast on or a hill of snow and allow him to be smothered by the blizzard? A pragmatic survivor would have done so since she had her hands on the baby as soon as she was separated from the group in the blizzard, and yet she chooses a car, the most safest and surest away for the baby to continue living and be kept safe away from the walkers. This is not something a pragmatic survivor would do, especially when she's planning to trick Kenny to prove a necessary point to Clementine about his state of mind.
Considering how Kenny reacted towards Clementine over Sarita's death, and how Kenny's sanity hinges on the life of the baby, there's a small chance that Kenny would have crossed the line and attempted to kill Clementine had she been the one to care for the baby and lost him in a tragic accident. Would you take that chance? I wouldn't, especially if I was half my age.
And Jane says the line as Kenny is attempting to kill her, especially after she tried to surrender and lower her guard to reason with Kenny, only for him to see it as another attempt to attack her. She says the line because now she's convinced that she has to kill him, because Kenny wants to kill her and won't back down until he's done the deed.
If she wanted to kill Kenny from the start, she could have done so while Clementine was shot by Arvo, the distraction would have given her the opportunity to kill Kenny AND the baby, but she doesn't. Hell, why bother kill Vitali who is attacking Kenny when she can just wait it out? Again, she stabs him from the back of the neck to give Kenny the opportunity to blow his brains out.
If by safe location do you mean in walker infested territory during a blizzard? Also what would have happened if the baby didn't cry, you ca… moren't honestly expect the baby crying was apart of her plan. What if Jane's plan went through to have Kenny killed and then the baby didn't cry? Jane would have left. Jane didn't care about the baby.
I also want to ask what do you say attempt to kill a friend? Jane isn't Kenny's friend in the slightest. However there's a difference between Kenny fighting Jane and Kenny fighting anyone else. If Luke had lost it then it might have went the same way and Kenny might have been a bit softer on Luke and Kenny wouldn't attack Clem.
Jane intended to kill Kenny from the beginning, it wasn't just her plan to show his true side. She knew this would drive him into a crazed rage and it was her plan to kill him and then say it got out of hand and she had to. This is proved when you attempt to make Jane leave and she says something like "No, i'm putting this fucker out of his misery."
Um, her losing the baby...thought I was pretty clear on that but guess not. The last we saw her she was surrounded by zombies in a blizzard. Anything could've happened out there so a person would just have to take her word for it. Thinking anything else would be irrational.
Walkers still move in the cold and the car wasn't safe from the cold. You have yet to acknowledge how cold it was.
When Sarita died then Kenny got mad at Clem but Never did he make a move or touch Clem. Sarita was what the baby is to him and Clem let her die. Kenny would be very upset and possibly never forgive Clem but he would never hurt her.
Kenny does say the same line BUT we all knew Kenny wanted to kill her. If Jane's real intention was to just prove a point then why not say "You see Clem, you see what he has become, the baby's alive, let's go Clem." but no she was set on killing him. She could have left but she didn't. Both of them wanted to kill each other but Jane had a little girl murder her target.
Jane NEEDED Clem as Kenny does. If Jane would have let Kenny die then she would have lost Clem's trust as she could have saved him. It's all about Clem.
The baby was hidden in a car in a location she knew he'd be safe and away from the walkers. If she truly wanted to baby dead out of pragmati… moresm, why inside a car? Why not just throw him to the walkers for them to feast on or a hill of snow and allow him to be smothered by the blizzard? A pragmatic survivor would have done so since she had her hands on the baby as soon as she was separated from the group in the blizzard, and yet she chooses a car, the most safest and surest away for the baby to continue living and be kept safe away from the walkers. This is not something a pragmatic survivor would do, especially when she's planning to trick Kenny to prove a necessary point to Clementine about his state of mind.
Considering how Kenny reacted towards Clementine over Sarita's death, and how Kenny's sanity hinges on the life of the baby, there's a small chance that Kenny would have crossed the line and attempted to kill Clementine had she been t… [view original content]
Any sane person wouldn't have tried to kill someone back in retaliation based on no evidence.
That's just the thing of it, though. W… moreho is still sane in the world of the walking dead?
The rationale we argue by right now, from the comfort of our own houses, in a world that hasn't gone through complete societal breakdown, is long gone in that world. It's not a luxury anyone still has, and the only people that still have some semblance of it are the handful that are still trying to hold on to their pre-apocalyptic beliefs.
She caused a huge problem and the idiot put her self at risk. She picked the worst possible time to play this kid bull shit. It wasn't necessary. She was trying to corrupt Clementine from the get go. You really think she gave a shit about anyone after how she tried to get Clementine to leave everyone behind? You seem to think making a bad situation even worse is having "good intentions". Anyone is more suitable to Clem's guardian
There is nothing that screams "Good Intentions" about making someone believe a baby is dead
Her good intentions were to protect Clem… moreentine by showing what how dangerous Kenny has become that he would legit murder someone just based on a hunch. You fail to see Jane's motives and prefer to see it on one side only.
Go lose someone's kid and say "it was an accident" see what happens
Comparing fictional events to real life situations again. Why on earth would I do that? There's no reason. Jane had the reason and the motive for her plan. These comparisions you keep making are ludacrous.
How 'bout both Kenny and Jane are terrible people, and Clementine was better off without either of those chucklefucks driving her into a shallow grave?
No one knows how they'd react though. I know myself well enough to know I don't attack people physically unless physically provoked. Even if I did, I would not be justified w/o prove of malicious intent.
You think you would, but you don't know you would. Those are two different things.
If I was in that exact same situation, under the exact same parameters, I'd probably attack, too.
Um its not just walkers we have to worry about. Its anything and anyone that could be a problem. Anyone could have snatched that baby and eaten it for supper without anyone knowing.
The baby was hidden in a car in a location she knew he'd be safe and away from the walkers. If she truly wanted to baby dead out of pragmati… moresm, why inside a car? Why not just throw him to the walkers for them to feast on or a hill of snow and allow him to be smothered by the blizzard? A pragmatic survivor would have done so since she had her hands on the baby as soon as she was separated from the group in the blizzard, and yet she chooses a car, the most safest and surest away for the baby to continue living and be kept safe away from the walkers. This is not something a pragmatic survivor would do, especially when she's planning to trick Kenny to prove a necessary point to Clementine about his state of mind.
Considering how Kenny reacted towards Clementine over Sarita's death, and how Kenny's sanity hinges on the life of the baby, there's a small chance that Kenny would have crossed the line and attempted to kill Clementine had she been t… [view original content]
Um, her losing the baby...thought I was pretty clear on that but guess not. The last we saw her she was surrounded by zombies in a blizzard.… more Anything could've happened out there so a person would just have to take her word for it. Thinking anything else would be irrational.
You don't get to choose to lose your mind...You don't just wake up one morning and think I'm crazy today and the next say I'm sane. You don't do that you lose your mind over mental issues and past events that could cause mental issues like PTSD.
Oh god arguing with you is fruitless. Since you continue to be closed minded to the situation and fail to refute my points and won't even bother to acknowledge any points in the game except the ones you want to and instead choose to spew randomness irrelevant to conversation, I am going to end this argument here with a box of Special K's
She caused a huge problem and the idiot put her self at risk. She picked the worst possible time to play this kid bull shit. It wasn't neces… moresary. She was trying to corrupt Clementine from the get go. You really think she gave a shit about anyone after how she tried to get Clementine to leave everyone behind? You seem to think making a bad situation even worse is having "good intentions". Anyone is more suitable to Clem's guardian
ClemandNateS3
And yet the baby is never bothered by the cold once, especially when Kenny takes him away from the cold to mope during the campfire scene. And even then, he's never shown shivering from the cold or at risk from dying of hypothermia once throughout his appearance, unless Telltale forgot to stress the importance of the freezing conditions through the baby's overall health, since barely anyone points it out.
Speaking of the cold, if Kenny was more concerned about the cold for the sake of the baby's life, then why did he risk everyone's life to drive towards a community that might not exist instead of going to a more known location that may protect them from said cold? If it weren't for Wellington actually existing with no proof, he could have gotten his entire group killed in the cold, especially the baby he supposed to care about.
He was mad enough to not want to help Clementine through the herd of walkers and run off with or without Sarita, which could have killed Clementine had she not had the strength to fend them off and have caught up with Rebecca and Jane. Keep in mind she's still eleven at this point, and yet Kenny doesn't want to help her out of the place. Even if she is hyper competent and can look after himself, paternal instincts should have prioritise getting Clementine out over leaving her behind out of spite because of what happened to Sarita.
I've little idea as to why Jane didn't just shout out her plan right after Kenny's reaction, I'll give you that. All I can think of is that she panicked and wasn't thinking straight, especially since someone is trying to kill her and is not willing to listen: "I'm done listening! (paraphrased)".
Depends on whether Clementine is around to see Jane killing Kenny for no reason, which never happens. Using my examples, Clementine would be in a coma after being shot by Arvo, and Clementine (and the audience) doesn't see Jane until she decides to help the group by stabbing Vitali. Even if it's all about Clementine, Jane never tries to actively get Kenny killed until the finale, and it's in self defence.
Walkers still move in the cold and the car wasn't safe from the cold. You have yet to acknowledge how cold it was.
When Sarita died then … moreKenny got mad at Clem but Never did he make a move or touch Clem. Sarita was what the baby is to him and Clem let her die. Kenny would be very upset and possibly never forgive Clem but he would never hurt her.
Kenny does say the same line BUT we all knew Kenny wanted to kill her. If Jane's real intention was to just prove a point then why not say "You see Clem, you see what he has become, the baby's alive, let's go Clem." but no she was set on killing him. She could have left but she didn't. Both of them wanted to kill each other but Jane had a little girl murder her target.
Jane NEEDED Clem as Kenny does. If Jane would have let Kenny die then she would have lost Clem's trust as she could have saved him. It's all about Clem.
And yet the baby is never bothered by the cold once, especially when Kenny takes him away from the cold to mope during the campfire scene. And even then, he's never shown shivering from the cold or at risk from dying of hypothermia once throughout his appearance, unless Telltale forgot to stress the importance of the freezing conditions through the baby's overall health, since barely anyone points it out.
...Are you serious? Freezing Blizzard=Dead baby. The baby doesn't have a immunity to freezing to death.
Speaking of the cold, if Kenny was more concerned about the cold for the sake of the baby's life, then why did he risk everyone's life to drive towards a community that might not exist instead of going to a more known location that may protect them from said cold? If it weren't for Wellington actually existing with no proof, he could have gotten his entire group killed in the cold, especially the baby he supposed to care about.
Wellington was said to be safe, the cold was said to keep the walkers still. It's better to risk the cold to get to a place where you could survive. I love how everyone is upset now about going to Wellington but back during Ep.1 when Christa says it everyone is fine with it.
He was mad enough to not want to help Clementine through the herd of walkers and run off with or without Sarita, which could have killed Clementine had she not had the strength to fend them off and have caught up with Rebecca and Jane. Keep in mind she's still eleven at this point, and yet Kenny doesn't want to help her out of the place. Even if she is hyper competent and can look after himself, paternal instincts should have prioritise getting Clementine out over leaving her behind out of spite because of what happened to Sarita.
However he didn't physically attack her once.
I've little idea as to why Jane didn't just shout out her plan right after Kenny's reaction, I'll give you that. All I can think of is that she panicked and wasn't thinking straight, especially since someone is trying to kill her and is not willing to listen: "I'm done listening! (paraphrased)".
Thank you and for your last paragraph i'll give that to you. However it wasn't just to expose Kenny it was to kill him. Jane knew Clem knew who Kenny was and she knew she wouldn't leave him.
And yet the baby is never bothered by the cold once, especially when Kenny takes him away from the cold to mope during the campfire scene. A… morend even then, he's never shown shivering from the cold or at risk from dying of hypothermia once throughout his appearance, unless Telltale forgot to stress the importance of the freezing conditions through the baby's overall health, since barely anyone points it out.
Speaking of the cold, if Kenny was more concerned about the cold for the sake of the baby's life, then why did he risk everyone's life to drive towards a community that might not exist instead of going to a more known location that may protect them from said cold? If it weren't for Wellington actually existing with no proof, he could have gotten his entire group killed in the cold, especially the baby he supposed to care about.
He was mad enough to not want to help Clementine through the herd of walkers and run off with or without Sari… [view original content]
She could have gotten overwhelmed, have you ever though of that? There were multiple zombies surrounding like I said. There are multiple ways that she could have lost the baby, it's not that hard to think about. Look, I'm not a fan of these arguments and I don't really want to continue this so can you please accept my box of Special K's and we be done with it.
Oh god arguing with you is fruitless. Since you continue to be closed minded to the situation and fail to refute my points and won't even bo… morether to acknowledge any points in the game except the ones you want to and instead choose to spew randomness irrelevant to conversation, I am going to end this argument here with a box of Special K's
She could have gotten overwhelmed, have you ever though of that?
Wouldn't she show more signs of a struggle if that was the case? Wouldn't she have blood on her, or maybe be out of breath from getting away from them, or visibly shaken over the events that took place? She seemed pretty calm while walking back to the rest stop.
She could have gotten overwhelmed, have you ever though of that? There were multiple zombies surrounding like I said. There are multiple way… mores that she could have lost the baby, it's not that hard to think about. Look, I'm not a fan of these arguments and I don't really want to continue this so can you please accept my box of Special K's and we be done with it.
I agree about the baby not having an immunity to the cold, but the cold itself is never perceived as a major problem to the group, especially when a newborn is introduced to the group who is at the biggest risk of dying due to the sheer coldness. If the characters never stresses that the cold could kill them at anytime, then I assume that the audience shouldn't care either.
Where and who did we hear about Wellington other than Christa and Kenny? There's no posters around the country advertising the place since Season 2 started, we never actually meet someone who actually lives there to confirm that Wellington do indeed exist. There's no concrete evidence that the place exists, and a rational person wouldn't risk the group and their own lives over a place they've only just heard of and not assume that it might not even exist or be still standing.
He may not have attacked her once, but at the time he didn't care enough to help her out of the dangerous area and willingly left her behind. This is the same as when Kenny didn't help Lee when he was trapped under the door with walkers climbing on top of him in S1 EP. What if Clementine did die? This would mean that he willingly allowed an eleven year old, an old friend of a deceased old friend (Lee), because she didn't handle Sarita's fate properly in his eyes apparently. He's still angry at her if she makes it out alive and doesn't apologise for his actions, except for a determinant line that not everyone might get. Lee would never have forgiven him for endangering Clementine's life if he was still around.
If Kenny didn't attack Jane over the 'death' of the baby and Jane tried to kill Kenny out of the blue, then you'd be right and I would be wrong. But because that never happened, we'll never know if Jane truly wanted Kenny dead from the start, since they've met and when she had her eyes on Clementine. I've already provided some ideas that shows why Jane wouldn't kill Kenny when several opportunities arrived, and her actions in the Kenny vs Jane was self defence, and we're only going to end up repeating overselves.
From what I understand from your last line, if Clementine knew all along that Kenny was how Jane perceives him and yet still wouldn't leave him, that sounds like an unfortunate case of Stockholm Syndrome (expect that Kenny doesn't hold Clementine hostage at all, at least not intentionally).
And yet the baby is never bothered by the cold once, especially when Kenny takes him away from the cold to mope during the campfire scene. A… morend even then, he's never shown shivering from the cold or at risk from dying of hypothermia once throughout his appearance, unless Telltale forgot to stress the importance of the freezing conditions through the baby's overall health, since barely anyone points it out.
...Are you serious? Freezing Blizzard=Dead baby. The baby doesn't have a immunity to freezing to death.
Speaking of the cold, if Kenny was more concerned about the cold for the sake of the baby's life, then why did he risk everyone's life to drive towards a community that might not exist instead of going to a more known location that may protect them from said cold? If it weren't for Wellington actually existing with no proof, he could have gotten his entire group killed in the cold, especially the baby he supposed to care abou… [view original content]
I agree about the baby not having an immunity to the cold, but the cold itself is never perceived as a major problem to the group, especially when a newborn is introduced to the group who is at the biggest risk of dying due to the sheer coldness. If the characters never stresses that the cold could kill them at anytime, then I assume that the audience shouldn't care either.
That's a writing problem.
Where and who did we hear about Wellington other than Christa and Kenny? There's no posters around the country advertising the place since Season 2 started, we never actually meet someone who actually lives there to confirm that Wellington do indeed exist. There's no concrete evidence that the place exists, and a rational person wouldn't risk the group and their own lives over a place they've only just heard of and not assume that it might not even exist or be still standing.
When you hear a rumor about safety in the apocalypse you go for it.
Let's be honest here, the third paragraph. We were discussing what he would do if Clem lost the baby and he would never physically harm her like he did Jane. If Kenny let Clem die then he would do suicide, no question about it.
If Kenny didn't attack Jane over the 'death' of the baby and Jane tried to kill Kenny out of the blue, then you'd be right and I would be wrong. But because that never happened, we'll never know if Jane truly wanted Kenny dead from the start, since they've met and when she had her eyes on Clementine. I've already provided some ideas that shows why Jane wouldn't kill Kenny when several opportunities arrived, and her actions in the Kenny vs Jane was self defence, and we're only going to end up repeating overselves.
Well, see this is why I don't like getting up in the whole KVJ arguments. I dislike both of the characters but I dislike Jane more so when I defend Kenny I just don't like to. I rather argue why Jane is shit but this has evolved into one of those KVJs. So here's a proposal, since we both have been civil in this argument I provide we agree to end this and say good debate to each other. You want to do this?
From what I understand from your last line, if Clementine knew all along that Kenny was how Jane perceives him and yet still wouldn't leave him, that sounds like an unfortunate case of Stockholm Syndrome
Not really but my Clem wouldn't, I tried to leave with Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo.
I agree about the baby not having an immunity to the cold, but the cold itself is never perceived as a major problem to the group, especiall… morey when a newborn is introduced to the group who is at the biggest risk of dying due to the sheer coldness. If the characters never stresses that the cold could kill them at anytime, then I assume that the audience shouldn't care either.
Where and who did we hear about Wellington other than Christa and Kenny? There's no posters around the country advertising the place since Season 2 started, we never actually meet someone who actually lives there to confirm that Wellington do indeed exist. There's no concrete evidence that the place exists, and a rational person wouldn't risk the group and their own lives over a place they've only just heard of and not assume that it might not even exist or be still standing.
He may not have attacked her once, but at the time he didn't care enough to help her out of … [view original content]
Comments
It's likely everyone will die.
If the Big Bang never occurred, none of this would have happened.
Beat that
But more so for a baby than any other person. AJ has a higher chance of dying because he needs constant care and cannot keep himself safe because he's a baby.
How 'bout both Kenny and Jane are terrible people, and Clementine was better off without either of those chucklefucks driving her into a shallow grave?
But that's the reason Kenny is connected, he likes to protect people who can't protect themselves like children...Arvo is a different thing if anyone brings that up. Kenny is still connected to Clem but in Episode 4 he says she doesn't need him because she can protect herself better than most people.
It is kinda sadistic to see Jane dead when she's killed for something she technically haven't done, which was killing a baby. Her only crime was to hide the baby in a safe location and pretend that he was dead, just to provoke a reaction out of Kenny and expect him to completely lose it and attempt to kill her for something she hasn't done. Had Kenny not reacted the way he did, up to the point where the baby's cries are heard, then Jane's plan would have crashed and burned.
But instead, she ended up proving the point that Kenny could have very well attempted to kill an friend for losing the baby in a tragic incident. What if Luke was alive at this point and had been the one to lose the baby in an accident during the blizzard that Kenny took them to? What if Clementine had the baby only to lose him along the way and had to meet up with Kenny expecting the baby in her hands? Would we have been as happy to see them die by the hands of Kenny over the situation that was out of their control?
I agree that what Jane did was insane and stupid, risked Clementine's life just to prove a point that Clementine may have already known to begin with, and may have ended with her death.
But from what I gathered with Kenny's stubbornness, unwillingness to listen, and irrationality by taking the remaining group to a place that may not exist with no supplies left, with a blizzard on the way, and potentially stuck in the middle of nowhere with walkers around...perhaps Jane felt that her life as well as Clementine were in danger due to Kenny's actions potentially leading them to their deaths, and fabricated a story about the baby dying in an accident to put him in a secret test, all to convince Clementine that she had to leave him for her own safety or follow him and risk dying for a pipe dream.
LOL. Idk if every caring parent would automatically assume a non stranger incidentally kills a baby even if they know that person does not like babies. I would think I'd have to see the body first before I'd react angrily.
That's a big assumption based on one experience of a fictional man who's off his rockers. Any sane person wouldn't have tried to kill someone back in retaliation based on no evidence.
Hiding a baby with good intentions = Evil
Murdering somebody based on no evidence for selfish reasons = Good
If by safe location do you mean in walker infested territory during a blizzard? Also what would have happened if the baby didn't cry, you can't honestly expect the baby crying was apart of her plan. What if Jane's plan went through to have Kenny killed and then the baby didn't cry? Jane would have left. Jane didn't care about the baby.
I also want to ask what do you say attempt to kill a friend? Jane isn't Kenny's friend in the slightest. However there's a difference between Kenny fighting Jane and Kenny fighting anyone else. If Luke had lost it then it might have went the same way and Kenny might have been a bit softer on Luke and Kenny wouldn't attack Clem.
Jane intended to kill Kenny from the beginning, it wasn't just her plan to show his true side. She knew this would drive him into a crazed rage and it was her plan to kill him and then say it got out of hand and she had to. This is proved when you attempt to make Jane leave and she says something like "No, i'm putting this fucker out of his misery."
You think you would, but you don't know you would. Those are two different things.
If I was in that exact same situation, under the exact same parameters, I'd probably attack, too.
Being calm and rational won't be the first thought that comes to someone's mind when someone loses their child. Jane even says "it was an accident". What do you think she meant?
I'm certainly not kidding. It feels like the baby was born just to give Kenny something to live for, and I don't feel like that's fair to him. He shouldn't have the burden of a man's sanity on his shoulders. What if he's not enough to keep Kenny from cracking, or yes, what if he dies? He's an object, not a person.
That it was an accident.
That's just the thing of it, though. Who is still sane in the world of the walking dead?
The rationale we argue by right now, from the comfort of our own houses, in a world that hasn't gone through complete societal breakdown, is long gone in that world. It's not a luxury anyone still has, and the only people that still have some semblance of it are the handful that are still trying to hold on to their pre-apocalyptic beliefs.
There is nothing that screams "Good Intentions" about making someone believe a baby is dead. She could have said he wasn't dead. Go lose someone's kid and say "it wa an accident" see what happens
I'm going to assume this was suppose to be replied to me.
First off, it's a baby...It again has no idea what's happening, it's not going to leave the group or anything like that. It doesn't have dreams or ambitions, it's a baby. You think it knows it has someone's sanity on it's shoulders? No, it's a baby, it probably can't even distinguish who is who right now.
It is apparently and if it dies...Well...Look at Jane.
A baby is a person.
What was
If god hadn't let out a mean fart none of this would have happened
Her good intentions were to protect Clementine by showing what how dangerous Kenny has become that he would legit murder someone just based on a hunch. You fail to see Jane's motives and prefer to see it on one side only.
Comparing fictional events to real life situations again. Why on earth would I do that? There's no reason. Jane had the reason and the motive for her plan. These comparisions you keep making are ludacrous.
The baby was hidden in a car in a location she knew he'd be safe and away from the walkers. If she truly wanted to baby dead out of pragmatism, why inside a car? Why not just throw him to the walkers for them to feast on or a hill of snow and allow him to be smothered by the blizzard? A pragmatic survivor would have done so since she had her hands on the baby as soon as she was separated from the group in the blizzard, and yet she chooses a car, the most safest and surest away for the baby to continue living and be kept safe away from the walkers. This is not something a pragmatic survivor would do, especially when she's planning to trick Kenny to prove a necessary point to Clementine about his state of mind.
Considering how Kenny reacted towards Clementine over Sarita's death, and how Kenny's sanity hinges on the life of the baby, there's a small chance that Kenny would have crossed the line and attempted to kill Clementine had she been the one to care for the baby and lost him in a tragic accident. Would you take that chance? I wouldn't, especially if I was half my age.
And Jane says the line as Kenny is attempting to kill her, especially after she tried to surrender and lower her guard to reason with Kenny, only for him to see it as another attempt to attack her. She says the line because now she's convinced that she has to kill him, because Kenny wants to kill her and won't back down until he's done the deed.
If she wanted to kill Kenny from the start, she could have done so while Clementine was shot by Arvo, the distraction would have given her the opportunity to kill Kenny AND the baby, but she doesn't. Hell, why bother kill Vitali who is attacking Kenny when she can just wait it out? Again, she stabs him from the back of the neck to give Kenny the opportunity to blow his brains out.
Um, her losing the baby...thought I was pretty clear on that but guess not. The last we saw her she was surrounded by zombies in a blizzard. Anything could've happened out there so a person would just have to take her word for it. Thinking anything else would be irrational.
Pierre Shorette wrote In Harms Way. Eric Stirpe and J. T. Petty wrote Amid the Ruins.
Walkers still move in the cold and the car wasn't safe from the cold. You have yet to acknowledge how cold it was.
When Sarita died then Kenny got mad at Clem but Never did he make a move or touch Clem. Sarita was what the baby is to him and Clem let her die. Kenny would be very upset and possibly never forgive Clem but he would never hurt her.
Kenny does say the same line BUT we all knew Kenny wanted to kill her. If Jane's real intention was to just prove a point then why not say "You see Clem, you see what he has become, the baby's alive, let's go Clem." but no she was set on killing him. She could have left but she didn't. Both of them wanted to kill each other but Jane had a little girl murder her target.
Jane NEEDED Clem as Kenny does. If Jane would have let Kenny die then she would have lost Clem's trust as she could have saved him. It's all about Clem.
Sanity isn't a luxury. it's a choice that anyone can still choose to have in that world.
Lol.
You don't choose to lose your mind.
She caused a huge problem and the idiot put her self at risk. She picked the worst possible time to play this kid bull shit. It wasn't necessary. She was trying to corrupt Clementine from the get go. You really think she gave a shit about anyone after how she tried to get Clementine to leave everyone behind? You seem to think making a bad situation even worse is having "good intentions". Anyone is more suitable to Clem's guardian
ClemandNateS3
I doubt her alone with the baby prolongs their chance of ending up dead. But yeah, both are flawed people.
No one knows how they'd react though. I know myself well enough to know I don't attack people physically unless physically provoked. Even if I did, I would not be justified w/o prove of malicious intent.
How so? Explain.
Um its not just walkers we have to worry about. Its anything and anyone that could be a problem. Anyone could have snatched that baby and eaten it for supper without anyone knowing.
She has a new born child in her hands its hard to lose if she held on to it.
You don't get to choose to lose your mind...You don't just wake up one morning and think I'm crazy today and the next say I'm sane. You don't do that you lose your mind over mental issues and past events that could cause mental issues like PTSD.
Oh god arguing with you is fruitless. Since you continue to be closed minded to the situation and fail to refute my points and won't even bother to acknowledge any points in the game except the ones you want to and instead choose to spew randomness irrelevant to conversation, I am going to end this argument here with a box of Special K's
And yet the baby is never bothered by the cold once, especially when Kenny takes him away from the cold to mope during the campfire scene. And even then, he's never shown shivering from the cold or at risk from dying of hypothermia once throughout his appearance, unless Telltale forgot to stress the importance of the freezing conditions through the baby's overall health, since barely anyone points it out.
Speaking of the cold, if Kenny was more concerned about the cold for the sake of the baby's life, then why did he risk everyone's life to drive towards a community that might not exist instead of going to a more known location that may protect them from said cold? If it weren't for Wellington actually existing with no proof, he could have gotten his entire group killed in the cold, especially the baby he supposed to care about.
He was mad enough to not want to help Clementine through the herd of walkers and run off with or without Sarita, which could have killed Clementine had she not had the strength to fend them off and have caught up with Rebecca and Jane. Keep in mind she's still eleven at this point, and yet Kenny doesn't want to help her out of the place. Even if she is hyper competent and can look after himself, paternal instincts should have prioritise getting Clementine out over leaving her behind out of spite because of what happened to Sarita.
I've little idea as to why Jane didn't just shout out her plan right after Kenny's reaction, I'll give you that. All I can think of is that she panicked and wasn't thinking straight, especially since someone is trying to kill her and is not willing to listen: "I'm done listening! (paraphrased)".
Depends on whether Clementine is around to see Jane killing Kenny for no reason, which never happens. Using my examples, Clementine would be in a coma after being shot by Arvo, and Clementine (and the audience) doesn't see Jane until she decides to help the group by stabbing Vitali. Even if it's all about Clementine, Jane never tries to actively get Kenny killed until the finale, and it's in self defence.
...Are you serious? Freezing Blizzard=Dead baby. The baby doesn't have a immunity to freezing to death.
Wellington was said to be safe, the cold was said to keep the walkers still. It's better to risk the cold to get to a place where you could survive. I love how everyone is upset now about going to Wellington but back during Ep.1 when Christa says it everyone is fine with it.
However he didn't physically attack her once.
Thank you and for your last paragraph i'll give that to you. However it wasn't just to expose Kenny it was to kill him. Jane knew Clem knew who Kenny was and she knew she wouldn't leave him.
She could have gotten overwhelmed, have you ever though of that? There were multiple zombies surrounding like I said. There are multiple ways that she could have lost the baby, it's not that hard to think about. Look, I'm not a fan of these arguments and I don't really want to continue this so can you please accept my box of Special K's and we be done with it.
K
Wouldn't she show more signs of a struggle if that was the case? Wouldn't she have blood on her, or maybe be out of breath from getting away from them, or visibly shaken over the events that took place? She seemed pretty calm while walking back to the rest stop.
I agree about the baby not having an immunity to the cold, but the cold itself is never perceived as a major problem to the group, especially when a newborn is introduced to the group who is at the biggest risk of dying due to the sheer coldness. If the characters never stresses that the cold could kill them at anytime, then I assume that the audience shouldn't care either.
Where and who did we hear about Wellington other than Christa and Kenny? There's no posters around the country advertising the place since Season 2 started, we never actually meet someone who actually lives there to confirm that Wellington do indeed exist. There's no concrete evidence that the place exists, and a rational person wouldn't risk the group and their own lives over a place they've only just heard of and not assume that it might not even exist or be still standing.
He may not have attacked her once, but at the time he didn't care enough to help her out of the dangerous area and willingly left her behind. This is the same as when Kenny didn't help Lee when he was trapped under the door with walkers climbing on top of him in S1 EP. What if Clementine did die? This would mean that he willingly allowed an eleven year old, an old friend of a deceased old friend (Lee), because she didn't handle Sarita's fate properly in his eyes apparently. He's still angry at her if she makes it out alive and doesn't apologise for his actions, except for a determinant line that not everyone might get. Lee would never have forgiven him for endangering Clementine's life if he was still around.
If Kenny didn't attack Jane over the 'death' of the baby and Jane tried to kill Kenny out of the blue, then you'd be right and I would be wrong. But because that never happened, we'll never know if Jane truly wanted Kenny dead from the start, since they've met and when she had her eyes on Clementine. I've already provided some ideas that shows why Jane wouldn't kill Kenny when several opportunities arrived, and her actions in the Kenny vs Jane was self defence, and we're only going to end up repeating overselves.
From what I understand from your last line, if Clementine knew all along that Kenny was how Jane perceives him and yet still wouldn't leave him, that sounds like an unfortunate case of Stockholm Syndrome (expect that Kenny doesn't hold Clementine hostage at all, at least not intentionally).
That's a writing problem.
When you hear a rumor about safety in the apocalypse you go for it.
Let's be honest here, the third paragraph. We were discussing what he would do if Clem lost the baby and he would never physically harm her like he did Jane. If Kenny let Clem die then he would do suicide, no question about it.
Well, see this is why I don't like getting up in the whole KVJ arguments. I dislike both of the characters but I dislike Jane more so when I defend Kenny I just don't like to. I rather argue why Jane is shit but this has evolved into one of those KVJs. So here's a proposal, since we both have been civil in this argument I provide we agree to end this and say good debate to each other. You want to do this?
Not really but my Clem wouldn't, I tried to leave with Mike, Bonnie, and Arvo.