Why Killing Larry is the Better Choice
In Starved for Help we have the dilemma of helping Kenny dispose of Larry or side with Lilly and give Larry CPR. On my original play-through, I didn't always side with Kenny and I preferred Lilly out of the two, usually. But, when it came to killing Larry or not, I ended up siding with Kenny. Yes, Larry was probably just unconscious when it happened, but I don't think he would've woken up as Larry if he did wake up. Back at the pharmacy, Lilly tells Lee, after Larry collapses on the floor, that Larry has had a few bad attacks in the past in which she's had to take him to the hospital. I think this time in the meat locker was another one of those attacks. When we were at the pharmacy, Larry wasn't unconscious and we were able to get him his heart pills. While we're trapped in the meat locker, he in unconscious and we don't have access to his pills and wont for a while yet. Also, I think back to what Mark says in the beginning of the episode, ".....the guy's a walking pile-driver; I know I wouldn't want to be stuck in a room with him". It's best to make this choice pragmatically because if you try to save him and you're wrong...then everyone in the locker most likely is going to die
Comments
I think he was dead and we couldn't take the chance, that's why I (gladly) killed him. Even if he was just unconscious, like you said, he didn't have his pills and most likely would have died anyway. Killing him, while it may seem horrific, was the right call.
I didn't think you could just wait and not doing anything, I'll have to try that out
I didnt choose to help Kenny kill Larry, but killing him was probably the best call considering he was probably already dead
Every one knows its the better choice. If Larry had turned he would kill them all because they had no weapons to defend them selves its not worth the risk.... In real life all people would help to kill him. Players that didn't kill him just were trying to play the good guy or be nice to Lilly.
Oh no, I meant I tried helping him with Cpr, but if you dont do anything during the choice you will just stand there and Kenny kills him
so true...
Hey, I've never said anything against this....In fact I was all for it (Look at the Username)
I've always thought that was him beginning to becoming a walker. It could have been him waking up, but under the circumstances, it's more believable if it was him beginning to turn.
Actually, if you try to save him, right after his head is getting smashed, you can see him making a wierd move with his lips. We don't know if this is him waking up or giving his last breath.
I've always thought that was him beginning to becoming a walker. It could have been him waking up, but under the circumstances, it's more believable if it was him beginning to turn.
Look at Rebecca and how quickly she turned, it was about 1-2 minutes, which was pretty much about the same time Larry was out and before we were given the decision. As explained by Dr. Edwin Jenner in the T.V. show, how long it takes for a person to turn varies, it could be seconds, minutes, hours, even days.
I don't think they can turn THAT fast.
I mean, it was only few seconds.
Look at Rebecca and how quickly she turned, it was about 1-2 minutes, which was pretty much about the same time Larry was out and before we were given the decision. As explained by Dr. Edwin Jenner in the T.V. show, how long it takes for a person to turn varies, it could be seconds, minutes, hours, even days.
This is the second fucking time on this thread alone my comment got eaten, this is really starting to piss me off.
The right choice depends entirely on if you think that Larry was alive at the time or not. I painted the floor with his brain matter because I thought he was already dead, but I would've jumped to save him if I thought he wasn't.
I agree.
I find it kind of funny that siding with Lilly in season 1 doesn't really make a big difference, while with Kenny it does.
Here's a little food for thought to go with all of this. Kenny's way of killing him, despite being pretty visceral, was honestly the most humane way to do it, given the circumstances. Quick and instant, albeit messy. What's the alternative way to off him in that situation? Stomp him to death? Use one of those wooden pallets to beat him to death?
At least he didn't suffer this way, you know?
In the sound files, there's annotations for the various lines of dialogue/sounds. Generally, those are just transcripts of the lines spoken. But in cases of grunts or moans or other sounds of exertion, they're listed rather descriptively. Like [breathing angry, scared] [grunts of exertion, pulling a zombie off of your friend], and other things similar to that.
Larry's grunt/breath is annotated as [quiet quick inhale on impact as Lee gives CPR. Is the CPR helping or is Larry becoming a zombie?]
It was fully intended from the beginning to be ambiguous, and was deliberately recorded to be ambiguous.
I helped Larry because it was morally right, if he was still alive then that's a bonus XD
Indeed. He was not getting up from that heart attack, not without pills or hospital care.
I agree.
We simply couldn't take that risk, and EVEN IF you attempt to save him. His lips move, which I believe, was him starting to turn. At the time, St. John's had our group hostage, we were going to be killed eventually and Clementine was there. A man with a history of medical problems just took a spill, is he getting up? Probably not. We didn't have any of his pills or any form of medical treatment, Larry was a dead man, simple as that. I couldn't afford the risk, and I feel like it was the right choice.
I think you should try and save. I could never bring myself to kill him without trying to save him in any of my playthroughs. And if I remember correctly there were a few slabs of saltlick in the locker. I think we could have used some slabs to hold him down.
I tried to save him, I at least gave him a chance.
Some people here would be terrible to be trapped in a confined space with. So quick to jump to completely irrational conclusions and just kill for the fuck of it.
It could've crushed his ribs though. But, I agree that Kenny should've taken precautions rather than jumping to the worst-case scenario. He could've easily propped the saltlick up on the shelving unit that was only three feet away from where Larry were. Keep himself tilted facing Larry and if he showed REAL symptoms, hold up the saltlick and ready his stance. If Larry started to lunged, kill him. Easy...
I love Cillian Murphy! He's one of my main squeezes :-)
Even though I usually choose to kill larry, if waiting until he turned was an option I would've chosen to wait, but since it's not I gotta side with Kenny
Well even though it's only a videogame, logically, the decision to put Larry down does make sense.
I wish we would've been given a 4th option, as the the three decisions we were given were, help Kenny, help Lilly, or stand still and not do anything.
I wish we could've had an opportunity to talk to Larry, and get him to calm down, before he pushed himself so hard that he collapsed.
In all honesty, I didn't really care for Larry, or Lilly for that matter.
From the getgo they struck me as selfish, which is easy to understand, given their behavior at the drugstore.
And after Lilly shot Carly, that was it, I was done with her.
I had Lee leave her on the side of the road.
Panicked people + small spaces + potential threat in the same room as them = people going ape-shit and, as a result, doing dumb shit
It's easy for us to say otherwise or say "boy that sure is a stupid, irrational thing to do", but we're not trapped in a confined space with what is a potential threat in the same room, on top of the existing panic brought on by a prior stressor, the stressor in this case being imprisoned by a cannibalistic family. No, we're sitting in a nice insulated little room, in a chair, on a computer, without a care in the world, hypothesizing how we'd react in a situation that, for all intents and purposes, none of us would have a feasible reason to ever end up in at any point in our lives. But what the hell do any of us know? Next to nothing, because we've never been presented with a situation even remotely similar to this whatsoever. It's so easy for us to sit here and run the entire situation through our heads cognitively like "okay why doesn't he just stand with the salt lick ready in case he turns?" If you're trapped in any real life situation even slightly similar to that, you're not going to be doing much in the way of formulating plans. Go get yourself into a hostage situation and try to thoroughly plan out an escape. Unless you're in the military or something and have actually gone through that before, you're not going to be thinking straight at all. Your mind would be an absolute mess.
You got one thing right: most people would be terrible to be trapped in a confined place, because people behave irrationally when presented with something they fear. Like any animal with basic survival instinct, they want to get the hell away from whatever is stressing them out, and if the option to run away from it isn't on the table, they'll resort to the next best solution; neutralizing the perceived threat. People will willingly crawl over and trample other people to get away from a fire, and crush themselves into fire escapes trying to get out; people will never form orderly lines when there's shit exploding next to them, they'll all go fucking crazy and cause even more chaos to ensue.
Okay, so you guys crushed Larrys head beacuse you didn't want to take a risk. But seriously, if he would turn there will be still time to smashed his head before he could attack anybody. Take Rebecca for example, after she turned, she didn't immediately bite her baby which was right in front of her. As far as i know in TWD universe when zombie wakes up for the first time its usually a little numb for few seconds before he starts killing anyone.
Lee believes killing Larry is right thing to do, but it is not vocal about it.
In my game, I chose to help Lilly. One of the dialogue trees with Clementine (post-Larry's death) allows Lee to say, "I know it was necessary, but...I wish Clem didn't have to witness stuff like this. I worry what's it gonna do to her."
I do not know if he states the same thoughts if you choose inaction or to help Kenny. But, we see the differences between Lee and Kenny; the latter is a man of action while the former thinks about the consequences.
Just because you think the conclusion is irrational does not mean that it is. It's all down to personal opinion. Neither decision seems right really, they both have their pros and cons. For me, the decision was based around the assumption that Larry was dead and that even if by some small chance he was alive, it was too much of a risk to take. I'll repeat though that this is just my opinion and neither decision can be definitively classed as right or wrong.
Also, I think all the characters in that scenario can be forgiven for being a bit on edge. I would applaud anyone who could keep a completely level head when trapped in a meat locker belonging to known cannibals with presumably no method of escape.
No. Killing a man because you had a hunch he was dead (based off of personal biased in the first place) is ludicrous. That's like me killing a guy because I had overheard him joking about rape. Which makes him a rapist, right? Jumping to conclusions is bad, point blank.
Saving an unconscious man seems "not right?" Just as wrong as pulling a terrified daughter away from her passed out dad as his face is crushed in front of her? Wow, that's... um, terrible.
Of course, you don't care for him so fuck him and his daughter. Ruin someone else's life because "the risk is too big to take." Not for Lilly though, she knew he could be saved. But, in the end, only Kenny's opinion matters... as always.
The morally "right" choice is to try to save Larry's life. Not ending it because you're paranoid.
Kenny can't. The fucker kept being a jerk to her even after splashing her father's brain juice over her face. Hell, after they got out of the St. John's Farm and they find the abandoned truck, Kenny says "this food will be enough to feed all of us!" To which Lilly sadly mutters "not everyone." Then Kenny fucking sighs angrily as if to say "how dare she have the nerve to miss her father!" What a prick.
That's what Lee was doing if he choose to save Larry though. Being calm and trying to remain positive and resuscitate an unconscious man.
What about the cop in the first episode, he turned and immediately lunged and attacked Lee, who's to say Larry wouldn't do the same to Lilly or Lee if you decided to help.
The cop turning was through elapsed time though. I'm guessing around 10 to 15 minutes or so.
"No. Killing a man because you had a hunch he was dead (based off of personal biased in the first place) is ludicrous. That's like me killing a guy because I had overheard him joking about rape. Which makes him a rapist, right? Jumping to conclusions is bad, point blank."
The idea is ludicrous only if there are no consequences after death. If there was not a virus that made people turn when they die, you do everything in your power to save them obviously. But there is a risk with doing that in this universe. Kenny has points, Larry is an intimidating figure physically, he COULD be dead. If Lee tries to save him and he turns, he could kill them. He's easier to deal with on the ground before he turns if this is the case (sorry if that sounds cold, but it's just the reality of that situation). And no, killing a guy making a joke is entirely different to this situation.
"Saving an unconscious man seems "not right?" Just as wrong as pulling a terrified daughter away from her passed out dad as his face is crushed in front of her? Wow, that's... um, terrible."
Again, this is entirely different from an everyday scenario. Death has consequences beyond just the emotional effect it has on others. They are a threat until the brain is destroyed. I know it's on an assumption, but it is risky. Saving an unconscious man isn't 'not right', but by the same token, is trying to save everyone else by destroying the brain of a dead person 'not right'?
"Of course, you don't care for him so fuck him and his daughter. Ruin someone else's life because "the risk is too big to take." Not for Lilly though, she knew he could be saved. But, in the end, only Kenny's opinion matters... as always."
Larry kinda make it difficult for me to like him, which was sort of the point of our interactions I guess. But regardless, I didn't want to do it. I was thinking of the bigger picture, beyond saving someone who could or could not be dead. Do you not think that even if he had been revived he would have needed some immediate medical attention? Maybe those pills that he needs? I don't think he had them on him. His state may have worsened afterwards and could have prolonged his agony.
You seem to think I think Kenny is infallible. No. I have disagreed with him on a number of things. For instance, I saved Ben's life. I suggested he should stay with a group rather than risking the lives of his family. I just happened to agree with him on this one.
"Kenny can't. The fucker kept being a jerk to her even after splashing her father's brain juice over her face. Hell, after they got out of the St. John's Farm and they find the abandoned truck, Kenny says "this food will be enough to feed all of us!" To which Lilly sadly mutters "not everyone." Then Kenny fucking sighs angrily as if to say "how dare she have the nerve to miss her father!" What a prick."
I think it's more of a resigned acknowledgement of her point. He's angry for her bringing it up, so he has to be reminded of what he had done. I agree though, he had the exact same reaction as Lilly to most people who talked in such terms about his dying son.
"That's what Lee was doing if he choose to save Larry though. Being calm and trying to remain positive and resuscitate an unconscious man."
That was what we as the player could make Lee do, but being in that situation yourself is a lot different. I was calm, but resigned to the fact that an attempt to save him could result in death for everyone else. So I made the choice to side with Kenny. You disagree. But like I said, all down to opinion.
Even if you help Kenny, Lee still says the same thing if you choose to look on Clementine after Larry's death.
So I drew this incredible fancy piece of art work to show why Kenny couldnt just hold the saltlick over Larry's head.
If they had decided to have Kenny hold the saltlick over Larry, Kenny can no longer see Larry's face, where the first signs of turning would probably happen. Now there is two problems. If Larry wasnt dead, and was revived, it could look like he had just turned as well, which could lead to an accidental saltlick drop. Or, if he did turn, he might immediately grab Lee or Lilly before Kenny could drop the saltlick
Also saltlicks are heavy, I dont think Kenny could just stand there waiting holding it for that long
I like it... simple, but effective.
Just the fact that it's heavy could result in an accidental drop. If Kenny and Larry switched places, that could be avoided, with the clear difference in strength.
They have also a tendency to laying around until something to bite comes close (I never figured out why). Like a zombie in episode 4 s2, which Clem kills with screwdriver. I guess that cop turned a while ago and was just laying.
Rebecca not attacking Aj after she turns is something I find highly unlikely. Aj needed to stay alive for the purposes of the story so Rebecca doesn't attack him, although he really should've been a goner.