Should this darker tone continue in Season 3?
Now one thing I thought Season 2 did well in was that it established a much darker tone and captures just what people are willing to do in order to survive as time in the zombie apocalypse drags on. Season 1 didn't really have that much of a dark tone, you had creepy villains in the St. John's and The Stranger, but there was always that sort of feeling of hope prevalent throughout Season 1, and most people still had a sense of humanity left in them. But in Season 2, we see a lot more of people willing to do anything in order to survive and people, as a result, losing their humanity and becoming monsters or crazed psychopaths, which leads to that darker tone. That's something I enjoyed because it's a more accurate representation of what a zombie apocalypse does to people. Look at The Walking Dead as a whole series, including the comics and show. As they continue, the overall tone becomes much darker as well and people start to lose their sense of who they were before the apocalypse, Rick is a great example. As a result, people become more brutal and start taking extreme measures in order to survive. I thought the game captured this quite well in Season 2 and I feel it should continue in Season 3 since, as I said, it's an accurate representation of the world in which they live in. However, arguments can be made that maybe it shouldn't be as dark, that Season 3 should have more moments of hope and peacefulness, like the campfire scene in Episode 5. My question is do you think that Season 3 should be like Season 2 in terms of its tone, or should the writers lighten up and try to be a little less dark and gloomy.
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Well, given the circumstances of walking corpses that want to eat anything with a pulse, there's only so much cheer that can be added to a story like TWD. In S1 people still do have some hope that things are going to go back to normal, but after 2 years, it's hard to cling on to such a hope. I think they're going and should continue down this darker path because as time goes on, this sort of aloof, pragmatic behavior is going to be the norm. The St. John's were ahead of their time, so to speak.I think there should be more cheerful moments like the campfire scene where Clementine can try and get to know her companions more, I feel like as much time as we've spent with people, Clem knows next to nothing about her fellow survivors.
Two year into ZA most people are going to accept the that 'this is the way the world is now' and there's going to be less sympathy for people who can't hold their own. That's how it works with non-human animals...it's survival of the fittest (and that includes both mental and physical fortitude)with a little luck in there for good measure
Exactly, I'm not saying that we can't have some of those nice moments, but I'm just saying that the world is going to get a lot harsher and darker as time goes on and, if the writers want to truly capture the feel of the Walking Dead, they need to go down that darker path. As time goes on, that Social Darwanism mentality will become more prevalent and can also lead to future problems within the group.
Oh for sure it would cause problems. Being trustworthy is going to be one the most important traits someone can have. If Social Darwinism is the guiding light, trust is going to be hard to come by as people ultimately only care about saving themselves....because all the selfless people are being weeded out....
If Season 3 is the last season TellTale does, then I hope it starts depressing - and goes to hope
I dunno, there's only so many times Telltale can scream "LOOK HOW DARK AND HARDCORE WE ARE!!!!" by killing characters off with pretty much no other reason than cheap emotional impact [coughomidreggiecarlossaritanicksarahlukecough].
Stuff needs to lighten up a little and TTG needs to utilise their characters better - if they're not there to do anything there's no point in having them. As it stands most of their characters are just a bunch of meat-shield pins they can flick over whenever they feel someone needs to die.
Episodes like All That Remains, Amid The Ruins and No Going Back try and scream 'look how dark this game is guys seriously' but because they kill off characters with potential for no good reason and inflict violence and shit like that on characters so often it immunizes the player to it and stops them from feeling an impact from it after a while, so when something that's supposed to have more impact happens, it's just sort of 'eh. that sort of shit has been happening all season.'
It gets tiring after a while, and I'm not sure if I can carry on just sitting through boring instances of shitty character death after shitty character death for the sake of being dark and edgy.
But what if they can give the characters more development and an identity while still maintaining that dark tone of Season 2.
oh, I definitely agree that they kill off characters way too often. There should be more than 2 characters that last more than 2 seasons. Going into season 3 we already expect everyone Clementine comes into contact to have a target on their backs...but it shouldn't be like that. Yes, everyone is going to die eventually, but all her companions don't have to die or be lost by the end of every season
We've seen dark already. Too much dark is tiresome and tedious. What they need to do is give us some light so when the dark hits we know about it. That's what A House Divided did so well; with the light of Kenny's return and the group seeming happy at the Ski Lodge for a good half hour, it hits you like a sack of shit when Carver shows up and you really feel the impact. Unlike Amid The Ruins, which is 'everyone is going to die, get used to it' and the only brief period of light is when AJ is born - and that's right after Sarah dies which should leave a bad taste in the player's mouth.
Like I said, I'm not saying they should completely stop having nice moments like being at the lodge or the campfire scene in No Going Back, nor should they completely overdo the whole being dark thing like you said. But if Telltale truly wants to capture the feel of the comics, which is something they try to do in every game they make, then it's most likely going to get darker. If they can find a great balance like A House Divided, that would be fantastic since that was a well written episode and one of my personal favorites. If they can find that sort of balance, which I have faith in them to do, I have no doubt Season 3 will be great.
One character I would have liked to see live more than any other is Sarah, she had so much potential and really could have been a friend to Clementine. Clem can even say that she hasn't had too many friends, Sarah could have been a great one for her to have. I agree that characters should live into the next season, and the fact that so many characters are either dead or unknown by the end of the season is a complaint I have for both seasons. Lets have someone other than Clementine live, it would really throw people off their guard.
I do think that they wasted an opportunity with Sarah. I thought she wasn't going to be completely useless and as long as she's in the season, she makes it through 4 episodes, it's a shame that there wasn't more dialogue between Clem and Sarah...Sarah was just kinda there
I like dark tones...one of the reasons I even got into TWD (well, the show at least) so eh...I'll be content if it does.
There needs to be a healthy balance.
You want things dark, but not to dark.
You wanna portray a world that is violent and dangerous, but always maintain a sense of hope.
After what happened in season 2, I think we need to see a certain healing quality in season 3.
So in short, I say season 3 needs to be more optimistic.
Yeah I want the same dark tone to continue in S3, if only so that the hero of the story (Clem) can rise up and overcome it and it's even better when you can choose not to let the horrible world of TWD get to you and retain her humanity. But what I wouldn't give for more humor and sit down scenes where we can talk in this game series.
I really don't disagree with anything that's been said here so far. All are valid point's, but I for one do want even darker tones to season three. Sure I would like to see moment's of hope, or just an occasion of humor, but those should be fleeting as the reality of the ZA return's.
Many talk about the death's of past character's and complain they were not given enough development, I say, there's no reason every interesting character need's to have a greatly developed back story for two immediate reason's. One; because their are multiple character's and Clem is interacting with each of them at times, she can't just sit with one and get their whole life's story in a episode. Two; it's TWD and there's no reason any character, regardless of how interesting they may be, has to live long enough for us to get to know better. Any of them can and should die at any time in a multitude of way's from a dramatic battle to a simple tragic accident.. I think it's more realistic.
When I played Season one as Lee it was my job to protect Clem. In season two as Clem, it was my job to stay alive.. That's how I play and every other character, no matter how much I may like them, is expendable. I may mourn them, but in the end, better them than me.. So, too much character development to me isn't required. I'd like more focus on the overall story, trying to survive as the time passes into the ZA and the world becomes meaner and darker as it would.
There's only so much the player can take in with the dark undertones of the story before they lose interest in the story and stop caring about the characters, especially if they can predict what happens to a new character a mile away. While the first three episodes handled the darker tones well, Episode 4 and 5 had gotten so grimdark with killing off characters left and right, I ended up losing interest in the fate of every remaining character involved, even Clementine herself.
That's why I believe that Season 3 needs to 'lighten up' a bit. Stop killing off characters for shock value, stop creating characters that are one-dimensionally evil, and stop having characters exist just to die and be used as angst material. Start making more scenes where we can talk to characters and learn of their background and motivations, give us a reason to care about their struggles and problems, and have us laugh and be happy to put aside the idea that were in a zombie apocalypse rather than be reminded constantly that the world has gone to hell.
I think it should continue. But I'm kind of a sucker for dark tones.
"Dark tones" means what exactly?
Cause the entirety of season 2 was TellTale desperately trying to separate themselves from their cutesy "family friendly" games of yesteryear. And was shameful to put it lightly.
Why is the self-stitching scene in episode one more effective of making a lot of people (myself included) cringe than Kenny caving in a man's face? Because it was a threatening situation that we knew we would have to face after Clem got chomped by Sam. Anticipation can be very unnerving and can make something like pouring alcohol on a wound much more unpleasant than a scene where we see a man's skull and brains for literally no reason other than "Kenny needs a goddamn revenge scene."
I want less gore and blood and more mental breakdowns and inner turmoil to be addressed. I would like to see Clementine face very horrible psychological trauma. But, more important, I want to see her overcome and survive all odds to become stronger and more fierce as a character and be given more development.
Yes, ANY of them can die, but shouldn't mean that ALL of them have to die. Better character development would lead to a bigger emotional impact when a character dies. Survival in the walking dead in binary. Those dilemmas should leave the player always second guessing their choice.
I agree that too much dark and depressing can be tiresom. That's why tales from the Borderlands was such a nice change of pace. Just being able to play a game that was pure lighthearted fun was welcome. It makes me not that excited for WD season 3 if it's going to be more dark toned and human monsters.
Overall, absolutely correct.. The better the character development, the more impact their demise would have on the players. However, why shouldn't ALL of them die? Just for the sake of character development or impact?
For example: I know many here loved Sarah and felt cheated that she wasn't developed more and her death was cheap. I don't think they were wrong, I just don't share that opinion. I felt Sarah didn't have a chance to survive from the first minute my Clem met her and if anything she could risk the lives of anyone else. I was glad her time came to depart the world of the living because it was finally dropping off extra baggage. I didn't need nor want more character development with her..
That being said, I have no complaints about the development or lack of with any character in both season's. Sure some were developed much more than other's and had a greater impact on me, like Lee. Even Omid I felt was perfect.. After waiting for season 2 then to be so glad to see him and Christa, then to lose Omid so quickly was both heartbreaking and awesome. But other characters like Nick, or Bonnie or Sarah, I didn't really care because as I mentioned, Clem is my priority and I'll (she) will throw any of them under the proverbial zombie bus in order to survive.
I want more horror and darker content that would happen after two years's into a ZA more than I want to know all the intimate details about every character we meet.
Spoken as a true psychopath.
I'm not actually opposed to violence, horror and brutality. I think Season 2 held back way too much from its full potential, what with giving certain characters like Kenny plot armor. But I don't think Telltale's current staff are capable of executing a gritty story without seeming absurd.
Amid The Ruins wasn't lame because it killed off characters in "unsatisfying" ways. It was lame because the artificial nature of the video-game structure became extremely apparent. There's a difference between being powerless and having choices which SHOULD have consequences but are forgotten out of laziness (leaving immediately or staying at the deck for a few days; starting a gunfight or letting Kenny take the blame for it), and Telltale fucked up by making it too obvious that I'm playing a linear plot with no meaningful input from the player.
Yeah... Something that season one's pacing took the time to acknowledge was that there needed to be downtime to offset the tragedies. Despite everything that happens, connecting with Clementine and everyone else at the old Motor Inn still gave Lee something to struggle for.
This series is always going to have its darker moments, but I won't feel the same impact in the end if that's all we're allowed to experience.
Seconded. By the time Amid the Ruins came around most of the cast felt like they were just their to fill the death scene quota. It gets to a point where things stopped feeling tragic, and started feeling frustrating and apathetic.
Besides, it's not like avoiding a bloodbath every episode has to make things overtly lighthearted. There are a lot of themes that the characters could have explored without abruptly killing everyone off for the sake of the finale.
I think it needs to get a lot more darker. Everyone is too damn nice in both season 1 and 2. We need more people looking out for themselves.
Well, it is a zombie apocalypse, it's only going to get darker and darker. Until there's no humanity left and everyone is dark and depressing. So those happy times like the campfire scene will soon be non existent and there will only be death and destruction.
Yes it should have a darker tone...
Out of all the Telltale games, TWD is the only one that must have a darker theme...
It doesn't have to be super dark. There should be also moments where the characters get to relax and not being stressed by the walkers, like the campfire scene for example in episode 5 and when we reunite with Kenny in episode 2.
Um, the bandits, Carver, Troy, the Stranger, Michelle, the St. Johns, Larry weren't exactly nice people.
Exactly. The first two seasons were plenty dark. I don't want to play a game that's just misery porn. I'd like to see things lighten up a bit, or better yet, like someone else mentioned, strike a balance between the best and the worst, as the show and the comics do.
Right.. Small moment's where the group can sit and relax, catch their breath and tell a few lighthearted jokes or stories would be great, it would be reasonable. Their should be moment's of laughter. It's a defense mechinism people use to surpress their fear's and heal their spirit's.
But overall it is still a ZA.. When a hoard of walker's or group of bandit's come by to snap everyone back into reality and dispair and horror to remind them all of the world they now live in. That is TWD.
I get that it's the ZA but that doesn't mean that the entire game should be dark, dark, dark, sad, sad, sad, tragedy, tragedy, tragedy.
Season 1 had a perfect balance between the dark moments and the happy moments. I'm not asking for "And they all lived happily ever after" ending, all I want is for season 3 to have the same balance from season 1, not just being super dark for the sake of feels and such.
Having EVERYONE that is around Clem die I find more unrealistic...and it makes her seem like a jinx...especially when within a week of meeting Clementine the ENTIRE cabin group i dead. You can ask the same question, why should everyone die?
I wasn't pissed that Sarah died...frankly I'm surprised she lasted as long as she did considering she was utterly helpless and useless.
As TT has said, the narrative is the most important part of the game, so i would think that character development and getting players attached to characters through said development would matter.
A narrative is pretty damn boring if you don't get to know and care about anyone. And none of the 'dark sh*t' is gonna matter if players don't know and care about the characters...might as well play Dead Rising or some other zombie game that's just about killing zombies. Part of TWD, at least what attracted me to it, is the psychological consequences of having to live in such a world and you can't get that if there's not character development
I don't really care. The story is so bad currently i think they should just start over with new characters. I don't get this darkness fantasy, what do you want to see? Do you want to see kids blow themselves up wearing suicide vests? Do you want to see people slaughtered by a 50 cal like in Rambo 4.
those aren't bad ideas for starters
Exactly. All the characters you mentioned were secondary bad guys. I want main characters that are morally grey, not just the good guys and the bad.