Her compassion falls under "naïve" unfortunately. And my evidence is that In Harms Way she says "I don't want to hurt anyone, even if I'm mad." That falls under naivety.
What? So apparently caring for people is lacking wisdom, don't flatter yourself buddy. Why the hell did you even use a definition for something that doesn't even relate. She cares for her family and friends, sorry she's not your epic loner survivalist Jane.
I think we played different games.
Going against her dad's wishes to get Clem medicine which saved her life, standing up for Clem against Carver, defying Carver's rules to talk to Clem.
caring
Her compassion falls under "naïve" unfortunately. And my evidence is that In Harms Way she says "I don't want to hurt anyone,… more even if I'm mad." That falls under naivety.
na·ive
/nīˈēv/
adjective
adjective: naive; comparative adjective: naiver; superlative adjective: naivest; adjective: naïve; comparative adjective: naïver; superlative adjective: naïvest
(of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.
"the rather naive young man had been totally misled"
•(of a person) natural and unaffected; innocent.
"Andy had a sweet, naive look when he smiled"
pretty defiant
I think we played different games.
What? So apparently caring for people is lacking wisdom, don't flatter yourself buddy.
Don't be so sensitive, we're having a friendly debate. Stop jumping down people's throats when they don't agree with you. Jesus Christ.
Why the hell did you even use a definition for something that doesn't even relate.
It does relate though, she's very naïve. She doesn't even know how far gone the world is. Sorry, that's not innocence, that's being dense.
She cares for her family and friends, sorry she's not your epic loner survivalist Jane.
Are we really going here again? There's only two people according to you then? Terrible survivalists like Jane and moronic fools like Sarah? That's sad.
Going against her dad's wishes to get Clem medicine which saved her life, standing up for Clem against Carver, defying Carver's rules to talk to Clem.
Determinant, all of those examples. She can be straight up bullied and manipulated in giving Clem the medicine, hardly a rebel. Standing up for Clem? You mean when she said "leave her alone?" Yeah, that's 'standing up' for someone. That last one got her dumbass hit by her father though, and she hardly knew cause when called out, she immediately apologized because she didn't know something that she should've (as always).
What? So apparently caring for people is lacking wisdom, don't flatter yourself buddy. Why the hell did you even use a definition for someth… moreing that doesn't even relate. She cares for her family and friends, sorry she's not your epic loner survivalist Jane.
I think we played different games.
Going against her dad's wishes to get Clem medicine which saved her life, standing up for Clem against Carver, defying Carver's rules to talk to Clem.
I don't hate her personally, she was a great character. Now what i'm about say may piss some of you off, so please don't take offence to thi… mores. Its her fucking fanbase that pisses me off. Have any of you lads been to Tumbler during post-Amid to Ruins after Sarah's death. I have and let me tell you, those guys hated Season 2 more than any of the forum users here combine. Shivers
Don't be so sensitive, we're having a friendly debate. Stop jumping down people's throats when they don't agree with you. Jesus Christ.
I'm not even upset, just amused at you.
It does relate though, she's very naïve. She doesn't even know how far gone the world is. Sorry, that's not innocence, that's being dense.
Caring for people isn't being naïve.
Are we really going here again? There's only two people according to you then? Terrible survivalists like Jane and moronic fools like Sarah? That's sad.
Nope, also lovely to see your opinions coming out, truly. It's just apparently you can't appreciate caring characters or they were horrible characters.
Determinant, all of those examples. She can be straight up bullied and manipulated in giving Clem the medicine, hardly a rebel. Standing up for Clem? You mean when she said "leave her alone?" Yeah, that's 'standing up' for someone. That got her dumbass hit by her father though, and she hardly knew cause when called out, she immediately apologized because she didn't know something that she should've (as always).
Yes, although determinant they can all show personality traits. She can be pushed over by a rude Clem, which again shows a different side of Sarah depending on your choices. She still went against her father in one world so she is rebellious.
She's scared of Carver yet still goes against him and yells at him for hitting Clem which is standing up for her.
She got hit by her father because of Carver's personality, she still was being rebellious against him. She apologized because like I said, she's scared of Carver.
I don't know why I even try to debate or even talk with you. It's a waste of both of our times, we both know each other's opinions on this and how they won't change. You just like arguing for no reason.
What? So apparently caring for people is lacking wisdom, don't flatter yourself buddy.
Don't be so sensitive, we're having a friendl… morey debate. Stop jumping down people's throats when they don't agree with you. Jesus Christ.
Why the hell did you even use a definition for something that doesn't even relate.
It does relate though, she's very naïve. She doesn't even know how far gone the world is. Sorry, that's not innocence, that's being dense.
She cares for her family and friends, sorry she's not your epic loner survivalist Jane.
Are we really going here again? There's only two people according to you then? Terrible survivalists like Jane and moronic fools like Sarah? That's sad.
Going against her dad's wishes to get Clem medicine which saved her life, standing up for Clem against Carver, defying Carver's rules to talk to Clem.
Determinant, all of those examples. She can be straight up bullied an… [view original content]
Nope. But being naïve is naïve. And more particularly being completely out of touch with what's going on is dumb. A ruthless tyrant was in the process of explaining the rules when Sarah continued to run her mouth about, of all things, a dream. A DREAM. "Please shut up Sarah, you should know what Carver is willing to do to unruly 'members.'" Sarah continued. "Ok then. I have no sympathy at this point for whatever happens to your dumbass." That's the definition of dense moronic attitude.
Nope, also lovely to see your opinions coming out, truly. It's just apparently you can't appreciate caring characters or they were horrible characters.
Denied. I liked Clementine, she was caring... but not a dumb half-assed plot comparison so blatant it lacks any interest needed to be good.
She's scared of Carver yet still goes against him and yells at him for hitting Clem which is standing up for her.
"Yelled." She spoke softly to him and then immediately looked down when his eyes met hers.
She got hit by her father because of Carver's personality, she still was being rebellious against him. She apologized because like I said, she's scared of Carver.
What?
I don't know why I even try to debate or even talk with you. It's a waste of both of our times, we both know each other's opinions on this and how they won't change. You just like arguing for no reason.
If you say so Golden, if you say so. You take things too far, "don't flatter yourself..." What the hell does that imply exactly? I stated the reason for not liking Sarah. Hell, you called me a "hater" in another post. That being a term no one that has a constructive point even needs to resort to using. You're just mumbling at that point.
Don't be so sensitive, we're having a friendly debate. Stop jumping down people's throats when they don't agree with you. Jesus Christ.
… more
I'm not even upset, just amused at you.
It does relate though, she's very naïve. She doesn't even know how far gone the world is. Sorry, that's not innocence, that's being dense.
Caring for people isn't being naïve.
Are we really going here again? There's only two people according to you then? Terrible survivalists like Jane and moronic fools like Sarah? That's sad.
Nope, also lovely to see your opinions coming out, truly. It's just apparently you can't appreciate caring characters or they were horrible characters.
Determinant, all of those examples. She can be straight up bullied and manipulated in giving Clem the medicine, hardly a rebel. Standing up for Clem? You mean when she said "leave her alone?" Yeah, that's 'standing up' for someone. That got her dumbass hit … [view original content]
If you say so Golden, if you say so. You take things too far, "don't flatter yourself..." What the hell does that imply exactly? I stated the reason for not liking Sarah. Hell, you called me a "hater" in another post. That being a term no one that has a constructive point even needs to resort to using. You're just mumbling at that point.
Alright. Then why even bother replying to me? You knew the past argument we had on this exact subject and you still replied to me to start an argument for no reason. I think it's best if we stop, alright there friend.
I'm not even upset, just amused at you
Ditto.
Caring for people isn't being naïve.
Nope. But being naïve is naïve. And… more more particularly being completely out of touch with what's going on is dumb. A ruthless tyrant was in the process of explaining the rules when Sarah continued to run her mouth about, of all things, a dream. A DREAM. "Please shut up Sarah, you should know what Carver is willing to do to unruly 'members.'" Sarah continued. "Ok then. I have no sympathy at this point for whatever happens to your dumbass." That's the definition of dense moronic attitude.
Nope, also lovely to see your opinions coming out, truly. It's just apparently you can't appreciate caring characters or they were horrible characters.
Denied. I liked Clementine, she was caring... but not a dumb half-assed plot comparison so blatant it lacks any interest needed to be good.
She's scared of Carver yet still goes against hi… [view original content]
I can understand why some people wouldn't like Sarah, but she was my favorite character in season 2 and even today I still wish her story arc had a better ending instead of her dying again in the same episode just to prove Jane and Carver right. Hell, Ben was a liability sure but atleast his story arc had a more satisfying conclusion if you save him.
Though, I do ignore the comments about how some people wanted Sarah to die horribly just because she wasn't a survivalist badass like Jane.
I didn't hate her character- she was a nice girl, if a little bit strange (I get the feeling she was slightly autistic or had some sort of anxiety problems). But what agitated me was the way she couldn't cope with the simplest of things, like being hit by Carlos- sure, it's upsetting, but you just have to deal with it and appreciate the situation. Her character wasn't built to cope in an apocalyptic situation. I didn't hate her, I was just...very frustrated by her. Hate is too strong a word: frustration was what I felt.
I didn't find her annoying, she just frustrated me with the way she couldn't cope. I suppose that's just my character- I try to stay calm in bad situations and anyone who can't just really makes me frustrated.
What do you mean by that? Sarah obviously had some mental issues; her character was fine, she was a lovely person. It was her anxiety issue and her inability to cope that frustrated a lot of people.
I think people were more frustrated by her inability to adapt and cope with a situation (mostly due to her anxiety issues, which is no fault of her character but a more psychological issue). I found it slightly odd how she immediately wanted to be friends, but I get that she hadn't met anyone for ages and might be a bit lonely. Maybe her character annoyed me slightly, but she was overall a nice person.
Because of her "we can be bestfriends" in Episode 1 and her meltdowns in Episode 3 and 4.
liiiiiikkkeee, how adults find children annoying since they ask alot of questions and (most of the time) crybabies.
It was her anxiety issue and her inability to cope
That is what I mean, people would consider that a weakness. Especially in today's gaming world where if you're not a uber leet zombie killa then you're useless.
But I do agree, she was a lovely person and I really did want Clem and her to be best buds, but she just shut down on me and bad stuff happened.
What do you mean by that? Sarah obviously had some mental issues; her character was fine, she was a lovely person. It was her anxiety issue and her inability to cope that frustrated a lot of people.
I think humans are the only judgemental creatures on this planet mate
But your taking this whole issue way, way too seriously: it's a game. People having their own opinions on a character doesn't automatically mean they have "twisted memories" and that they have to "tear down other people". That's a completely ridiculous assumption.
I'm a very, very confident person (and I don't mind saying that). I plan on going into Politics, an career that requires utter confidence (making speeches, debating, etc.). But I find her frustrating (I don't HATE her) because of her inability to cope with situations, and that's because I stay calm in bad situations and other people who panic in those moments bug me. She was a nice person, but her inability to cope in times when she needed to be strong was frustrating.
Assuming that other people have a different opinion because there lives are messed up and they are messed up is completely wrong, especially when such a theory is applied to a video game were none of the characters are real. People are far more likely to take out their problems on other people than something imaginary. And people with low self esteem don't "tear down" others- mostly because they'd lack the confidence to do that. And also people with low self esteem wouldn't pick on people, and those that do pick on people do so because they are confident they can get away with it. Plus picking on a real human is better as most bullies want a reaction.
All I'm saying is your taking it too psychologically- in the end it's just a game, it's got very little (if anything at all) to do with people's lives. And certainly you can't call people who disagree with your opinion "twisted" and "bitter". Having said all that, I do agree that she was a very nice person and I felt bad when she died, especially when I'd been trying so hard to keep her alive and trying to get her to recover and stop withdrawing into herself.
Human Beings are the most Judgemental creatures on this planet. I believe most people have low self esteems, they need to tear down other p… moreeople. They live in their twisted memories of bitterness, and take out their frustrations out on a imaginary girl . IMO it is better than picking on someone who is real.
Personally i loved the kid, she was the sweetest kid in this season, and i felt like shit when she died.
I can sympathise with Ben- yes he made mistakes, but his intentions were good. I got mad with him making mistakes, sure: doesn't mean I hated him though. "Frustration" would be the world used to describe how I felt with Ben and Sarah- frustration at their failings and at my inability to keep them alive, not hating their character. Both were nice people.
But Arvo, he's completely different: he threatened a little girl with a gun when we first came across him, which is completely unreasonable; he then sets up the group and tries to rob you, regardless of whether you decided to rob him in the first place. I can sympathise with his disability, but even if there wasn't an apocalypse he struck me as the sort of character who you couldn't really trust. As CrazyGeorge said below, he was shady. (and by the way, my dislike with him has nothing to do with his nationality)
Would Ben or Sarah try to rob you? No, neither of them would. Would either threaten you with a gun when you first met? No. Would either of them shoot a little girl? No. Ben and Sarah cannot be compared to Arvo.
How does not being able to hold a gun make you a brat?
I agree that her character could've been developed a bit more, but she wasn't boring. She wasn't particularly interesting and I felt nothing for her, but she didn't bore me either.
An plus in S1 most of Clem's dialogue consists of asking Lee for help (finding a hat, asking to find her parents, blah blah blah...).
Not saying I hate Sarah, but the reason is simple. Sarah is a character that insults many peoples' intelligence. TellTale made one of the mo… morest interesting and well-written child characters when they came up with Clementine. She was an innocent slightly naïve young girl that also had a very strong moral compass and was highly intelligent for someone her age. Sarah is an anemic bore that we're suppose to feel somehow protective over even though the game has never given us any insight into her as a human being. Her entire character is a sheltered child with coping problems, that's it.
I never felt anything for her not because I'm cold-hearted (well, that too) but because her dialogue consists entirely of asking Clementine for favors and advice. She, at one point, was reading a book. Which could've been a hobby she had and it could've shown her to be a naturally curious and well-versed individual. "Bollocks to that" exclaimed TellTale. That'll… [view original content]
I'd just like to also point out that this is a fictional character, and those people that say "I want her to die" wouldn't think anything like that about people in real life. I've got people I hate in video games and I want to see them die; then I've got people who I hate in real life but I wouldn't kill them because it's real. There's a difference between choosing to kill/wanting someone to die in a game/movie and then wanting someone to die in real life.
You have to admit though, if it was real life and you spoke to someone and they immediately said "lets be friends!" is a bit strange. You'd probably think they were a stalker or had some sort of issue, and don't say you wouldn't because everyone is shaped by the society we live in and people who think they are "different" or "not like that" usually turn out to be fools who are utter hypocrites and don't even realise it (in my opinion, the only person who's ever lived who had never judged people was Ghandi, but that's because he was a pretty special person).
But I do dislike the amount of hate she gets; I can sympathise with those people who hate her, but it doesn't mean I agree.
Because she's "not normal", "useless", and "annoying,", according to them.
Honestly, the hate Sarah receives is ridiculous and downright … moredisgusting. A character can be the sweetest person ever, but if they can't pull their own weight, people will consider them a burden and hope they die horribly. The mentality of "Ew! A creepy teenager who acts like a little kid and wants to be my friend," makes me shake my head. It's not fair to compare someone like Sarah to Clementine. She was a breath of fresh air, IMO.
There's a major difference between hating people in real life and in a fictional game/movie. In a game/movie there are people I would utterly LOVE to see die, and everyone has those type of characters (unless your Ghandi, of course). But then there are people in real life who I utterly, utterly loath (literally, there are people who I can't talk to without having an ideological argument) but I wouldn't want to see them die.
Also, I'm guessing that you might have wanted to see Carver die. Or (taking another example) Gus from Breaking Bad. If it's messed up to hate fictional characters, then you and everyone else is messed up and a terrible person.
And I'd finish by saying that most people don't dislike/hate her because she spoke to you- they dislike/hate her inability to cope with situations. Like when she got hit by Carlos- yes, that's upsetting and I sympathised with her, but then she couldn't even cut leaves of a plant for a couple of hours! I mean come on!
The mentality of "Ew! A creepy teenager who acts like a little kid and wants to be my friend," makes me shake my head.
Ironically en… moreough, that kind of mentality is itself creepy. Rejecting a friendship opportunity just because they happen to be a little different, and then expressing a deep desire to see them suffer and die for daring to wanting to speak to you? Even if it's just toward a fictional character and not a real life people (though there are people out there who would stoop that far), that's messed up.
I've just made this same comment with CrazyGeorge- hating a character in a fictional game has no correlation with your own life and personal experiences. I found her frustrating: am I bitter? No, definitely not. Am I lonely? Not at all. People's lives and the fictional characters they hate have no correlation whatsoever.
I agree with all you say, but I'd just like to ask one question: lots of people (yourself too, I assume) wanted Carver to die brutally. I don't see a thread saying "People who wanted Carver to die are monsters!" . Of course Carver and Sarah aren't the same, but I'm just emphasising the point that peoples hatred for fictional characters is far more acceptable than hating people so much in real life.
I always wondered this as well. Sure you can find her annoying I have no problem with that. But some of the things I've seen people say abou… moret her is just straight up disgusting, things like being happy when she died. I find it way disturbing the amount of people that were happy when she died (fictional character or not it's still completely fucked up)
That's the thing- it is a weakness, whether or not your in real life or not. Anxiety wrecks peoples lives, and I know as I live/have lived around family with the same issues. Literally, I have a sister who was so anxiety stricken that she'd been walking somewhere and then she'd just completely freeze and someone would have to pick her up. But she's a nice person. Anxiety is a terrible thing that no one should have to bear. It is a weakness, but it's important to note that its not a weakness of character but a psychological weakness. Psychology and character are different things.
It was her anxiety issue and her inability to cope
That is what I mean, people would consider that a weakness. Especially in today's… more gaming world where if you're not a uber leet zombie killa then you're useless.
But I do agree, she was a lovely person and I really did want Clem and her to be best buds, but she just shut down on me and bad stuff happened.
I'd just like to also point out that this is a fictional character, and those people that say "I want her to die" wouldn't think anything like that about people in real life.
One would hope not. It's still gross though, since Sarah kinda represents real people with disabilities like this. There are some people out there who really do think that way towards those with mental handicaps. That may strike you as a surprise, but believe me, it's true.
You have to admit though, if it was real life and you spoke to someone and they immediately said "lets be friends!" is a bit strange.
Well yeah, it is. When I first saw that happen, I knew there was something off about Sarah. She seemed harmless enough though. Besides, she was the only other kid around Clementine could interact with. She was iffy at first, but I welcomed her as a potential friend.
I'd just like to also point out that this is a fictional character, and those people that say "I want her to die" wouldn't think anything li… moreke that about people in real life. I've got people I hate in video games and I want to see them die; then I've got people who I hate in real life but I wouldn't kill them because it's real. There's a difference between choosing to kill/wanting someone to die in a game/movie and then wanting someone to die in real life.
You have to admit though, if it was real life and you spoke to someone and they immediately said "lets be friends!" is a bit strange. You'd probably think they were a stalker or had some sort of issue, and don't say you wouldn't because everyone is shaped by the society we live in and people who think they are "different" or "not like that" usually turn out to be fools who are utter hypocrites and don't even realise it (in my opinion, the only person who's ever lived who had never judged… [view original content]
she couldn't even cut leaves of a plant for a couple of hours!
Ever heard of catatonia? She was in shock because Carlos had always been good to her. So when he slapped her, it really hurt mentally and confused her brain. If Carver hadn't made him do it, she probably would've been just fine. Again, it's Carlos' fault for keeping her in the dark. I don't understand why more people aren't frustrated with him and how he raised Sarah. It's really not fair to blame her.
Also, people were glad to see Carver die because he was practically a sociopath. The player is, more or less, meant to find him despicable. Judging from your username, though, I'm guessing that didn't work on you.
There's a major difference between hating people in real life and in a fictional game/movie. In a game/movie there are people I would utterl… morey LOVE to see die, and everyone has those type of characters (unless your Ghandi, of course). But then there are people in real life who I utterly, utterly loath (literally, there are people who I can't talk to without having an ideological argument) but I wouldn't want to see them die.
Also, I'm guessing that you might have wanted to see Carver die. Or (taking another example) Gus from Breaking Bad. If it's messed up to hate fictional characters, then you and everyone else is messed up and a terrible person.
And I'd finish by saying that most people don't dislike/hate her because she spoke to you- they dislike/hate her inability to cope with situations. Like when she got hit by Carlos- yes, that's upsetting and I sympathised with her, but then she couldn't even cut leaves of a plant for a couple of hours! I mean come on!
. "Frustration" would be the world used to describe how I felt with Ben and Sarah- frustration at their failings
I would use the words friendship, forgiveness, and over protective to describe how i felt about them. I won't lie i told Ben i would kill him after finding out it really was him, but then i calmed down and felt bad because of how he was cowering.
You have to turn the frustration into motivation, especially with young people. Imagine how Ben would of acted if people gave him confidence, believed in him, treated him like he wasn't just a burden. IMO it was a self fulfilling prophecy, they made him to be the burden the entire game, by treating him like one. If that is your personal truth, as young person especially they're extremely influential.
I can sympathise with Ben- yes he made mistakes, but his intentions were good. I got mad with him making mistakes, sure: doesn't mean I hate… mored him though. "Frustration" would be the world used to describe how I felt with Ben and Sarah- frustration at their failings and at my inability to keep them alive, not hating their character. Both were nice people.
But Arvo, he's completely different: he threatened a little girl with a gun when we first came across him, which is completely unreasonable; he then sets up the group and tries to rob you, regardless of whether you decided to rob him in the first place. I can sympathise with his disability, but even if there wasn't an apocalypse he struck me as the sort of character who you couldn't really trust. As CrazyGeorge said below, he was shady. (and by the way, my dislike with him has nothing to do with his nationality)
Would Ben or Sarah try to rob you? No, neither of them would. Would either t… [view original content]
Because I found her overall useless. She's the only character out of both season 1 and season 2 that I never attempt to save after the first playthrough. When she died, I just felt "meh" not sad nor happy, I just didn't care about her
When she died, I just felt "meh" not sad nor happy, I just didn't care about her
"Meh" was my exact reaction followed by "man, I'm glad Sarah was such a bore. Otherwise that scene would've made me cry and have emotions. Thanks TellTale for helping me dodge one hell of a bullet."
Because I found her overall useless. She's the only character out of both season 1 and season 2 that I never attempt to save after the first playthrough. When she died, I just felt "meh" not sad nor happy, I just didn't care about her
How does not being able to hold a gun make you a brat?
I never said it did. I said she was a brat that couldn't even so much as hold a gun without slinging it at Clem like a dumbass. She's a brat because the definition is someone either ill-mannered (she's not that), but she is very immature, which is the second term used to describe a bratty child.
I agree that her character could've been developed a bit more, but she wasn't boring. She wasn't particularly interesting and I felt nothing for her, but she didn't bore me either.
"But she wasn't boring." Actually, that's subjective. To me, she was the MOST boring, completely devoid of any interesting characteristics.
An plus in S1 most of Clem's dialogue consists of asking Lee for help (finding a hat, asking to find her parents, blah blah blah...).
Not even close. Season one Clementine not only saved Lee many times, she also had dialogue that consisted of an amalgam of different things. She would discuss her hat that her father gave her, open up dialogue about her tree house and how she hid there to avoid detection, she gave a backstory with a beginning and a middle and end. You meet Sarah, and all you're given is that she's lived in the cabin for an unknown amount of time and was at one point part of Carver's community. That's about the full extent of Sarah's "lore." You never learn about her glasses, her love for reading, or why she's so attached to her father.
How does not being able to hold a gun make you a brat?
I agree that her character could've been developed a bit more, but she wasn't bori… moreng. She wasn't particularly interesting and I felt nothing for her, but she didn't bore me either.
An plus in S1 most of Clem's dialogue consists of asking Lee for help (finding a hat, asking to find her parents, blah blah blah...).
They even brought that here if you were around to see it. That travesty of a thread "shame on you Telltale" that kept going for months complaining about the same thing over and over.
I don't hate her personally, she was a great character. Now what i'm about say may piss some of you off, so please don't take offence to thi… mores. Its her fucking fanbase that pisses me off. Have any of you lads been to Tumbler during post-Amid to Ruins after Sarah's death. I have and let me tell you, those guys hated Season 2 more than any of the forum users here combine. Shivers
I think Sarah's character had a lot of potential but the writers failed at exploiting it and instead they just got rid of her when they no longer knew how to use her in the story. They didn't really care about her I think which is a shame because I thought she was an interesting character especially for Clem.
I didn't hate her or dislike her, I just never really had an opinion on her and I didn't find her character interesting to me. I still saved her since she never did anything wrong and I didn't think she deserved to die but when she did die I wasn't that affected by it, it was sad but I found it quite easy to get over since I never really had a strong connection to her character. But that's just my opinion.
How does not being able to hold a gun make you a brat?
I never said it did. I said she was a brat that couldn't even so much as hold… more a gun without slinging it at Clem like a dumbass. She's a brat because the definition is someone either ill-mannered (she's not that), but she is very immature, which is the second term used to describe a bratty child.
I agree that her character could've been developed a bit more, but she wasn't boring. She wasn't particularly interesting and I felt nothing for her, but she didn't bore me either.
"But she wasn't boring." Actually, that's subjective. To me, she was the MOST boring, completely devoid of any interesting characteristics.
An plus in S1 most of Clem's dialogue consists of asking Lee for help (finding a hat, asking to find her parents, blah blah blah...).
Not even close. Season one Clementine not only saved Lee many times, she also had dialogue that consisted of an a… [view original content]
"I don't understand why more people aren't frustrated with him and how he raised Sarah. It's really not fair to blame her."
That's true enough. But even if Carlos hadn't sheltered her she had a variety of issues that would've made it difficult for her to cope in a normal society, let alone an apocalypse. She just didn't fit in with either setting, and I can sympathise with Carlos a bit. If he hadn't been so protective of her, people in normal society would've bullied and used her and she didn't have the mental strength to cope with an apocalypse either. Carlos was sort of stuck between a boulder and a hard place with how to raise Sarah.
Just wondering as well- has there been any maker/writer from TT who has confirmed that Sarah has these sorts of problems? People tend to throw a lot of their own diagnostics around, but if someone from TT hasn't confirmed it then these sort of assumptions. Personally, though what your suggesting (Catatonia) makes sense I personally believe her inability to cope was to do with character as well as a few problems- character wise, she wasn't strong enough to cope, and her character wasn't particularly resilient. You could blame it on a mental disorder, which is plausible, but not every issue she had was down to one problem or another. Literally, if you got all the suggested issues Sarah had and put them together she'd have about 2'000 different mental issues!
Judging from your username, though, I'm guessing that didn't work on you.
she couldn't even cut leaves of a plant for a couple of hours!
Ever heard of catatonia? She was in shock because Carlos had always b… moreeen good to her. So when he slapped her, it really hurt mentally and confused her brain. If Carver hadn't made him do it, she probably would've been just fine. Again, it's Carlos' fault for keeping her in the dark. I don't understand why more people aren't frustrated with him and how he raised Sarah. It's really not fair to blame her.
Also, people were glad to see Carver die because he was practically a sociopath. The player is, more or less, meant to find him despicable. Judging from your username, though, I'm guessing that didn't work on you.
"There are some people out there who really do think that way towards those with mental handicaps. That may strike you as a surprise, but believe me, it's true."
That's true, though I'm guessing the majority of Sarah haters aren't those type of people. And there might be those people who hate her but don't realise she has an issue. And don't worry, nothing horrific surprises me anymore- I've been studying the Nazis for a few years now and they've done practically every horrific you can imagine (including killing the mentally handicapped- when they were originally making the gas chambers they tested the gas (Zyklone on mentally disabled children).
"She seemed harmless enough though. Besides, she was the only other kid around Clementine could interact with. She was iffy at first, but I welcomed her as a potential friend."
Agreed. She was completely harmless, and I was still sad that I couldn't save her in the end. I won't exactly miss her, but I didn't want to see her go either.
I'd just like to also point out that this is a fictional character, and those people that say "I want her to die" wouldn't think anything li… moreke that about people in real life.
One would hope not. It's still gross though, since Sarah kinda represents real people with disabilities like this. There are some people out there who really do think that way towards those with mental handicaps. That may strike you as a surprise, but believe me, it's true.
You have to admit though, if it was real life and you spoke to someone and they immediately said "lets be friends!" is a bit strange.
Well yeah, it is. When I first saw that happen, I knew there was something off about Sarah. She seemed harmless enough though. Besides, she was the only other kid around Clementine could interact with. She was iffy at first, but I welcomed her as a potential friend.
What you say makes sense. I suppose I feel differently because I've got a different outlook and approach to people in general. Maybe your approach is better though.
. "Frustration" would be the world used to describe how I felt with Ben and Sarah- frustration at their failings
I would use the wor… moreds friendship, forgiveness, and over protective to describe how i felt about them. I won't lie i told Ben i would kill him after finding out it really was him, but then i calmed down and felt bad because of how he was cowering.
You have to turn the frustration into motivation, especially with young people. Imagine how Ben would of acted if people gave him confidence, believed in him, treated him like he wasn't just a burden. IMO it was a self fulfilling prophecy, they made him to be the burden the entire game, by treating him like one. If that is your personal truth, as young person especially they're extremely influential.
"Cuz they are weak and we r strong"
Sarah just needed some time to adapt to the outside world/ reality. since she didn't had much.
I blame her father for her education and well-being in this outside world.
Just wondering as well- has there been any maker/writer from TT who has confirmed that Sarah has these sorts of problems?
Nope, just that she had PTSD. I guess part of the blame has to do with how TT wrote her, 'cuz otherwise, like you said, everyone is just throwing theories around based on assumption alone.
"I don't understand why more people aren't frustrated with him and how he raised Sarah. It's really not fair to blame her."
That's true e… morenough. But even if Carlos hadn't sheltered her she had a variety of issues that would've made it difficult for her to cope in a normal society, let alone an apocalypse. She just didn't fit in with either setting, and I can sympathise with Carlos a bit. If he hadn't been so protective of her, people in normal society would've bullied and used her and she didn't have the mental strength to cope with an apocalypse either. Carlos was sort of stuck between a boulder and a hard place with how to raise Sarah.
Just wondering as well- has there been any maker/writer from TT who has confirmed that Sarah has these sorts of problems? People tend to throw a lot of their own diagnostics around, but if someone from TT hasn't confirmed it then these sort of assumptions. Personally, though what your suggesting (Cataton… [view original content]
They even brought that here if you were around to see it. That travesty of a thread "shame on you Telltale" that kept going for months complaining about the same thing over and over.
Mostly because Sarah is far more useless character and more of a total burden than Ben and Duck combined, she's a total liability. Kids can't be kids anymore in the apocalypse and her father obviously should have thought better than sheltering her from the world.
Throughout the game Sarah is never of any real use, her only purpose seems to be getting either herself or others into trouble, she never evolves and is total damsel in distress.
I had a similar problem with Duck in S1, as I really found it hard to get emotionally invested in his character, as he never really went beyond his initial character or anything, he was always so naive and aloof that he felt rather bland. As for Ben... I lost what little respect I had for him when he left Clementine to die and ran off in cowardice during this scene in Savannah.
Still, I might just prefer either of those two over Sarah...
Comments
She was caring and actually pretty defiant.
Her compassion falls under "naïve" unfortunately. And my evidence is that In Harms Way she says "I don't want to hurt anyone, even if I'm mad." That falls under naivety.
/nīˈēv/
adjective
adjective: naive; comparative adjective: naiver; superlative adjective: naivest; adjective: naïve; comparative adjective: naïver; superlative adjective: naïvest
(of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.
"the rather naive young man had been totally misled"
•(of a person) natural and unaffected; innocent.
"Andy had a sweet, naive look when he smiled"
I think we played different games.
What? So apparently caring for people is lacking wisdom, don't flatter yourself buddy. Why the hell did you even use a definition for something that doesn't even relate. She cares for her family and friends, sorry she's not your epic loner survivalist Jane.
Going against her dad's wishes to get Clem medicine which saved her life, standing up for Clem against Carver, defying Carver's rules to talk to Clem.
Don't be so sensitive, we're having a friendly debate. Stop jumping down people's throats when they don't agree with you. Jesus Christ.
It does relate though, she's very naïve. She doesn't even know how far gone the world is. Sorry, that's not innocence, that's being dense.
Are we really going here again? There's only two people according to you then? Terrible survivalists like Jane and moronic fools like Sarah? That's sad.
Determinant, all of those examples. She can be straight up bullied and manipulated in giving Clem the medicine, hardly a rebel. Standing up for Clem? You mean when she said "leave her alone?" Yeah, that's 'standing up' for someone. That last one got her dumbass hit by her father though, and she hardly knew cause when called out, she immediately apologized because she didn't know something that she should've (as always).
Well, a lot of people on Tumblr identify with Sarah, so there's that. But yeah, the whole "ableist" thing they rant about is a bit kooky.
I'm not even upset, just amused at you.
Caring for people isn't being naïve.
Nope, also lovely to see your opinions coming out, truly. It's just apparently you can't appreciate caring characters or they were horrible characters.
Yes, although determinant they can all show personality traits. She can be pushed over by a rude Clem, which again shows a different side of Sarah depending on your choices. She still went against her father in one world so she is rebellious.
She's scared of Carver yet still goes against him and yells at him for hitting Clem which is standing up for her.
She got hit by her father because of Carver's personality, she still was being rebellious against him. She apologized because like I said, she's scared of Carver.
I don't know why I even try to debate or even talk with you. It's a waste of both of our times, we both know each other's opinions on this and how they won't change. You just like arguing for no reason.
Ditto.
Nope. But being naïve is naïve. And more particularly being completely out of touch with what's going on is dumb. A ruthless tyrant was in the process of explaining the rules when Sarah continued to run her mouth about, of all things, a dream. A DREAM. "Please shut up Sarah, you should know what Carver is willing to do to unruly 'members.'" Sarah continued. "Ok then. I have no sympathy at this point for whatever happens to your dumbass." That's the definition of dense moronic attitude.
Denied. I liked Clementine, she was caring... but not a dumb half-assed plot comparison so blatant it lacks any interest needed to be good.
"Yelled." She spoke softly to him and then immediately looked down when his eyes met hers.
What?
If you say so Golden, if you say so. You take things too far, "don't flatter yourself..." What the hell does that imply exactly? I stated the reason for not liking Sarah. Hell, you called me a "hater" in another post. That being a term no one that has a constructive point even needs to resort to using. You're just mumbling at that point.
Alright. Then why even bother replying to me? You knew the past argument we had on this exact subject and you still replied to me to start an argument for no reason. I think it's best if we stop, alright there friend.
I can understand why some people wouldn't like Sarah, but she was my favorite character in season 2 and even today I still wish her story arc had a better ending instead of her dying again in the same episode just to prove Jane and Carver right. Hell, Ben was a liability sure but atleast his story arc had a more satisfying conclusion if you save him.
Though, I do ignore the comments about how some people wanted Sarah to die horribly just because she wasn't a survivalist badass like Jane.
I didn't hate her character- she was a nice girl, if a little bit strange (I get the feeling she was slightly autistic or had some sort of anxiety problems). But what agitated me was the way she couldn't cope with the simplest of things, like being hit by Carlos- sure, it's upsetting, but you just have to deal with it and appreciate the situation. Her character wasn't built to cope in an apocalyptic situation. I didn't hate her, I was just...very frustrated by her. Hate is too strong a word: frustration was what I felt.
I didn't find her annoying, she just frustrated me with the way she couldn't cope. I suppose that's just my character- I try to stay calm in bad situations and anyone who can't just really makes me frustrated.
What do you mean by that? Sarah obviously had some mental issues; her character was fine, she was a lovely person. It was her anxiety issue and her inability to cope that frustrated a lot of people.
I think people were more frustrated by her inability to adapt and cope with a situation (mostly due to her anxiety issues, which is no fault of her character but a more psychological issue). I found it slightly odd how she immediately wanted to be friends, but I get that she hadn't met anyone for ages and might be a bit lonely. Maybe her character annoyed me slightly, but she was overall a nice person.
That is what I mean, people would consider that a weakness. Especially in today's gaming world where if you're not a uber leet zombie killa then you're useless.
But I do agree, she was a lovely person and I really did want Clem and her to be best buds, but she just shut down on me and bad stuff happened.
I think humans are the only judgemental creatures on this planet mate
But your taking this whole issue way, way too seriously: it's a game. People having their own opinions on a character doesn't automatically mean they have "twisted memories" and that they have to "tear down other people". That's a completely ridiculous assumption.
I'm a very, very confident person (and I don't mind saying that). I plan on going into Politics, an career that requires utter confidence (making speeches, debating, etc.). But I find her frustrating (I don't HATE her) because of her inability to cope with situations, and that's because I stay calm in bad situations and other people who panic in those moments bug me. She was a nice person, but her inability to cope in times when she needed to be strong was frustrating.
Assuming that other people have a different opinion because there lives are messed up and they are messed up is completely wrong, especially when such a theory is applied to a video game were none of the characters are real. People are far more likely to take out their problems on other people than something imaginary. And people with low self esteem don't "tear down" others- mostly because they'd lack the confidence to do that. And also people with low self esteem wouldn't pick on people, and those that do pick on people do so because they are confident they can get away with it. Plus picking on a real human is better as most bullies want a reaction.
All I'm saying is your taking it too psychologically- in the end it's just a game, it's got very little (if anything at all) to do with people's lives. And certainly you can't call people who disagree with your opinion "twisted" and "bitter". Having said all that, I do agree that she was a very nice person and I felt bad when she died, especially when I'd been trying so hard to keep her alive and trying to get her to recover and stop withdrawing into herself.
I can sympathise with Ben- yes he made mistakes, but his intentions were good. I got mad with him making mistakes, sure: doesn't mean I hated him though. "Frustration" would be the world used to describe how I felt with Ben and Sarah- frustration at their failings and at my inability to keep them alive, not hating their character. Both were nice people.
But Arvo, he's completely different: he threatened a little girl with a gun when we first came across him, which is completely unreasonable; he then sets up the group and tries to rob you, regardless of whether you decided to rob him in the first place. I can sympathise with his disability, but even if there wasn't an apocalypse he struck me as the sort of character who you couldn't really trust. As CrazyGeorge said below, he was shady. (and by the way, my dislike with him has nothing to do with his nationality)
Would Ben or Sarah try to rob you? No, neither of them would. Would either threaten you with a gun when you first met? No. Would either of them shoot a little girl? No. Ben and Sarah cannot be compared to Arvo.
How does not being able to hold a gun make you a brat?
I agree that her character could've been developed a bit more, but she wasn't boring. She wasn't particularly interesting and I felt nothing for her, but she didn't bore me either.
An plus in S1 most of Clem's dialogue consists of asking Lee for help (finding a hat, asking to find her parents, blah blah blah...).
I'd just like to also point out that this is a fictional character, and those people that say "I want her to die" wouldn't think anything like that about people in real life. I've got people I hate in video games and I want to see them die; then I've got people who I hate in real life but I wouldn't kill them because it's real. There's a difference between choosing to kill/wanting someone to die in a game/movie and then wanting someone to die in real life.
You have to admit though, if it was real life and you spoke to someone and they immediately said "lets be friends!" is a bit strange. You'd probably think they were a stalker or had some sort of issue, and don't say you wouldn't because everyone is shaped by the society we live in and people who think they are "different" or "not like that" usually turn out to be fools who are utter hypocrites and don't even realise it (in my opinion, the only person who's ever lived who had never judged people was Ghandi, but that's because he was a pretty special person).
But I do dislike the amount of hate she gets; I can sympathise with those people who hate her, but it doesn't mean I agree.
There's a major difference between hating people in real life and in a fictional game/movie. In a game/movie there are people I would utterly LOVE to see die, and everyone has those type of characters (unless your Ghandi, of course). But then there are people in real life who I utterly, utterly loath (literally, there are people who I can't talk to without having an ideological argument) but I wouldn't want to see them die.
Also, I'm guessing that you might have wanted to see Carver die. Or (taking another example) Gus from Breaking Bad. If it's messed up to hate fictional characters, then you and everyone else is messed up and a terrible person.
And I'd finish by saying that most people don't dislike/hate her because she spoke to you- they dislike/hate her inability to cope with situations. Like when she got hit by Carlos- yes, that's upsetting and I sympathised with her, but then she couldn't even cut leaves of a plant for a couple of hours! I mean come on!
I've just made this same comment with CrazyGeorge- hating a character in a fictional game has no correlation with your own life and personal experiences. I found her frustrating: am I bitter? No, definitely not. Am I lonely? Not at all. People's lives and the fictional characters they hate have no correlation whatsoever.
I agree with all you say, but I'd just like to ask one question: lots of people (yourself too, I assume) wanted Carver to die brutally. I don't see a thread saying "People who wanted Carver to die are monsters!" . Of course Carver and Sarah aren't the same, but I'm just emphasising the point that peoples hatred for fictional characters is far more acceptable than hating people so much in real life.
"people would consider that a weakness"
That's the thing- it is a weakness, whether or not your in real life or not. Anxiety wrecks peoples lives, and I know as I live/have lived around family with the same issues. Literally, I have a sister who was so anxiety stricken that she'd been walking somewhere and then she'd just completely freeze and someone would have to pick her up. But she's a nice person. Anxiety is a terrible thing that no one should have to bear. It is a weakness, but it's important to note that its not a weakness of character but a psychological weakness. Psychology and character are different things.
One would hope not. It's still gross though, since Sarah kinda represents real people with disabilities like this. There are some people out there who really do think that way towards those with mental handicaps. That may strike you as a surprise, but believe me, it's true.
Well yeah, it is. When I first saw that happen, I knew there was something off about Sarah. She seemed harmless enough though. Besides, she was the only other kid around Clementine could interact with. She was iffy at first, but I welcomed her as a potential friend.
Ever heard of catatonia? She was in shock because Carlos had always been good to her. So when he slapped her, it really hurt mentally and confused her brain. If Carver hadn't made him do it, she probably would've been just fine. Again, it's Carlos' fault for keeping her in the dark. I don't understand why more people aren't frustrated with him and how he raised Sarah. It's really not fair to blame her.
Also, people were glad to see Carver die because he was practically a sociopath. The player is, more or less, meant to find him despicable. Judging from your username, though, I'm guessing that didn't work on you.
I would use the words friendship, forgiveness, and over protective to describe how i felt about them. I won't lie i told Ben i would kill him after finding out it really was him, but then i calmed down and felt bad because of how he was cowering.
You have to turn the frustration into motivation, especially with young people. Imagine how Ben would of acted if people gave him confidence, believed in him, treated him like he wasn't just a burden. IMO it was a self fulfilling prophecy, they made him to be the burden the entire game, by treating him like one. If that is your personal truth, as young person especially they're extremely influential.
Because I found her overall useless. She's the only character out of both season 1 and season 2 that I never attempt to save after the first playthrough. When she died, I just felt "meh" not sad nor happy, I just didn't care about her
"Meh" was my exact reaction followed by "man, I'm glad Sarah was such a bore. Otherwise that scene would've made me cry and have emotions. Thanks TellTale for helping me dodge one hell of a bullet."
I never said it did. I said she was a brat that couldn't even so much as hold a gun without slinging it at Clem like a dumbass. She's a brat because the definition is someone either ill-mannered (she's not that), but she is very immature, which is the second term used to describe a bratty child.
"But she wasn't boring." Actually, that's subjective. To me, she was the MOST boring, completely devoid of any interesting characteristics.
Not even close. Season one Clementine not only saved Lee many times, she also had dialogue that consisted of an amalgam of different things. She would discuss her hat that her father gave her, open up dialogue about her tree house and how she hid there to avoid detection, she gave a backstory with a beginning and a middle and end. You meet Sarah, and all you're given is that she's lived in the cabin for an unknown amount of time and was at one point part of Carver's community. That's about the full extent of Sarah's "lore." You never learn about her glasses, her love for reading, or why she's so attached to her father.
They even brought that here if you were around to see it. That travesty of a thread "shame on you Telltale" that kept going for months complaining about the same thing over and over.
I think Sarah's character had a lot of potential but the writers failed at exploiting it and instead they just got rid of her when they no longer knew how to use her in the story. They didn't really care about her I think which is a shame because I thought she was an interesting character especially for Clem.
I didn't hate her or dislike her, I just never really had an opinion on her and I didn't find her character interesting to me. I still saved her since she never did anything wrong and I didn't think she deserved to die but when she did die I wasn't that affected by it, it was sad but I found it quite easy to get over since I never really had a strong connection to her character. But that's just my opinion.
"But she wasn't boring." Actually, that's subjective. To me, she was the MOST boring, completely devoid of any interesting characteristics.
Well if you feel that way then that's fair enough. Just depends on peoples opinions.
" but she is very immature, which is the second term used to describe a bratty child."
Ah, okay then. I assumed you were using the first definition. She is immature, bit personally I'd blame that on Carlos.
"I don't understand why more people aren't frustrated with him and how he raised Sarah. It's really not fair to blame her."
That's true enough. But even if Carlos hadn't sheltered her she had a variety of issues that would've made it difficult for her to cope in a normal society, let alone an apocalypse. She just didn't fit in with either setting, and I can sympathise with Carlos a bit. If he hadn't been so protective of her, people in normal society would've bullied and used her and she didn't have the mental strength to cope with an apocalypse either. Carlos was sort of stuck between a boulder and a hard place with how to raise Sarah.
Just wondering as well- has there been any maker/writer from TT who has confirmed that Sarah has these sorts of problems? People tend to throw a lot of their own diagnostics around, but if someone from TT hasn't confirmed it then these sort of assumptions. Personally, though what your suggesting (Catatonia) makes sense I personally believe her inability to cope was to do with character as well as a few problems- character wise, she wasn't strong enough to cope, and her character wasn't particularly resilient. You could blame it on a mental disorder, which is plausible, but not every issue she had was down to one problem or another. Literally, if you got all the suggested issues Sarah had and put them together she'd have about 2'000 different mental issues!
Judging from your username, though, I'm guessing that didn't work on you.
Maybe...
"There are some people out there who really do think that way towards those with mental handicaps. That may strike you as a surprise, but believe me, it's true."
That's true, though I'm guessing the majority of Sarah haters aren't those type of people. And there might be those people who hate her but don't realise she has an issue. And don't worry, nothing horrific surprises me anymore- I've been studying the Nazis for a few years now and they've done practically every horrific you can imagine (including killing the mentally handicapped- when they were originally making the gas chambers they tested the gas (Zyklone
on mentally disabled children).
"She seemed harmless enough though. Besides, she was the only other kid around Clementine could interact with. She was iffy at first, but I welcomed her as a potential friend."
Agreed. She was completely harmless, and I was still sad that I couldn't save her in the end. I won't exactly miss her, but I didn't want to see her go either.
What you say makes sense. I suppose I feel differently because I've got a different outlook and approach to people in general. Maybe your approach is better though.
"Cuz they are weak and we r strong"
Sarah just needed some time to adapt to the outside world/ reality. since she didn't had much.
I blame her father for her education and well-being in this outside world.
I think he sheltered her so much b/c of her PTSD...Carlos knew she was as good as dead if she wasn't sheltered
Nope, just that she had PTSD. I guess part of the blame has to do with how TT wrote her, 'cuz otherwise, like you said, everyone is just throwing theories around based on assumption alone.
Don't even get me started on that tread...Please. : L
Mostly because Sarah is far more useless character and more of a total burden than Ben and Duck combined, she's a total liability. Kids can't be kids anymore in the apocalypse and her father obviously should have thought better than sheltering her from the world.
Throughout the game Sarah is never of any real use, her only purpose seems to be getting either herself or others into trouble, she never evolves and is total damsel in distress.
I had a similar problem with Duck in S1, as I really found it hard to get emotionally invested in his character, as he never really went beyond his initial character or anything, he was always so naive and aloof that he felt rather bland. As for Ben... I lost what little respect I had for him when he left Clementine to die and ran off in cowardice during this scene in Savannah.
Still, I might just prefer either of those two over Sarah...