I don't think he was a villain but I resented his entire comeback in season 2. I don't think he was deserving of any kind of redemption. Before he lost anyone in season 1, he proved he was a douche bag right from the get-go. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think he's a pretty shitty human being and the writers were trying to force us to like him.
Kenny is a good person, he just can't control his temper, he's been through allot of crud, you can say that it's no excuse, however, since when was everyone heartless and lacking in compassion for their passed loved ones?
For me Kenny is like one of those guys you would avoid talking to at parties, the guy with crazy eyes that always gets drunk too soon, tells racist jokes and gets in fights over trifles. The thing is if you look at season 2 the party is bursting with morons, egomaniacs, dullards, trigger-happy idiots and outright psychos that his flaws suddenly don’t stand out that much and you're somehow glad to see him. At least you know what you’re letting yourself in for.
If this is villainous is open to interpretation. But don’t forget about the bonding moments that were forced on you, like changing his bandage. They wouldn’t let you do that if they want to present him as villain. I dunno. I just see him as another headcase on the looong list of headcases we got to know in TWD.
To be honest, people who genuinely chose to kill Kenny didn't really read the situation. There are tons of clear hints why in the end, Kenny is the right choice to keep alive.
That female character I already forgot the name of, has psychopathic tendencies and left her sister behind due being somewhat sociopath or simply got traumatized by it. Then she tries to replace Clementine as her lost little sister which is definitely sick considering how far she went. She was ready to kill the baby after all.
I chose to shoot Kenny because he was going to kill someone on impulse, and for the crime they did not technically commit.
Jane may have been twisted to hide the baby to provoke Kenny, but she didn't intend to kill the baby, since the baby is alive in the car and not being fed to the walkers or suffocated in a pile of snow, as a pragmatic survivor would have done.
Suppose if Jane was replaced by Luke, and in a tragic accident, Luke was the one to lose the baby. Kenny would have still attempted to kill on impulse, without knowing the full story and without knowing that the person he's trying to kill is innocent all along.
He lost control of himself too many times, and now he proved that he has the impulse to kill and is unable to stop himself for it. That's why I shot him.
To be honest, people who genuinely chose to kill Kenny didn't really read the situation. There are tons of clear hints why in the end, Kenny… more is the right choice to keep alive.
That female character I already forgot the name of, has psychopathic tendencies and left her sister behind due being somewhat sociopath or simply got traumatized by it. Then she tries to replace Clementine as her lost little sister which is definitely sick considering how far she went. She was ready to kill the baby after all.
Kenny is a good person, he just can't control his temper, he's been through allot of crud, you can say that it's no excuse, however, since when was everyone heartless and lacking in compassion for their passed loved ones?
The game just as clearly hints that Kenny is trying to replace duck with clementine.
Not that that's the only issue with your post, such as there being no right choice, and the fact that lots of us wanted to get rid of kenny before he attacked Jane.
And
That female character I already forgot the name of
Fucking seriously? You expect people to think your comment is reasonable and worth considering when you say things like that?
There are tons of clear hints why in the end, Kenny is the right choice to keep alive.
Ok. Give me 5 clear reasons, which have nothing to do with opinion or perspective, on why it is 100% the only right choice to let Kenny kill Jane.
I mean, the entire point of the game is that it's based on perspective. But you apparently disagree with Telltale on that, so go for it. 5 clear unambiguous reasons, please.
To be honest, people who genuinely chose to kill Kenny didn't really read the situation. There are tons of clear hints why in the end, Kenny… more is the right choice to keep alive.
That female character I already forgot the name of, has psychopathic tendencies and left her sister behind due being somewhat sociopath or simply got traumatized by it. Then she tries to replace Clementine as her lost little sister which is definitely sick considering how far she went. She was ready to kill the baby after all.
Kenny is a selfish bastard.
He admits to Clem that he knows Wellington might be bullshit, but he insists on dragging the children he supposedly cares about along with him anyway. Without any supplies and without any real idea where Wellington might be. Purely for his own salvation.
That they actually find Wellington in his endings I find insulting. All three should be dead. Seems he got lucky again. Real lucky.
But a villain, I'd still say no.The malicious intent I associate with villains seems to be missing.
On a villain scale I'd put him one spot above Sam. :P
Don't forget that going to Wellington is actually voted down by the majority of the group, but he doesn't care and refuses to let them go somewhere else.
Kenny is a selfish bastard.
He admits to Clem that he knows Wellington might be bullshit, but he insists on dragging the children he suppo… moresedly cares about along with him anyway. Without any supplies and without any real idea where Wellington might be. Purely for his own salvation.
That they actually find Wellington in his endings I find insulting. All three should be dead. Seems he got lucky again. Real lucky.
But a villain, I'd still say no.The malicious intent I associate with villains seems to be missing.
On a villain scale I'd put him one spot above Sam. :P
Don't forget that going to Wellington is actually voted down by the majority of the group, but he doesn't care and refuses to let them go somewhere else.
If I wanted to provoke you I'd point out that when the group decided where to go, they ended up wandering miles and miles to a shabby half built hut on a death trap. Kenny opposed the idea from the beginning.
When Kenny decided where to go they found Wellington, the probably only safe place within who knows how many miles around. Sometimes the end does justify the mean, no?
If I wanted to provoke you I'd point out that when the group decided where to go, they ended up wandering miles and miles to a shabby half b… moreuilt hut on a death trap. Kenny opposed the idea from the beginning.
When Kenny decided where to go they found Wellington, the probably only safe place within who knows how many miles around. Sometimes the end does justify the mean, no?
Oh, and will you kindly STOP using the "everyone is entitled to their opinions" card? For the umpteenth time, I can't respect your damn opinion if you prefer to flame than talk.
Obvious right, from your behavior in your previously locked thread.
Telltale has Kenny beat the living crap out of Arvo. Kenny calls Clementine a "stupid fucking kid." Mike points out how blatantly idiotic Ke… morenny's plan to escape Carver's compound is in front of the whole group. Kenny turns into a flat-out psycho and murders Jane unless Clem puts him out of his misery like a mad dog. But none of this seems to be enough for them, or for you. I get the impression the only way you'd be convinced Telltale WASN'T practicing favoritism would be an explicit death scene with Sam tearing out Kenny's throat.
Oh, and will you kindly STOP using the "everyone is entitled to their opinions" card? For the umpteenth time, I can't respect your damn opinion if you prefer to flame than talk.
is like one of those guys you would avoid talking to at parties, the guy with crazy eyes that always gets drunk too soon, tells racist jokes and gets in fights over trifles
You know it, we make the party worth going to, if it wasn't for our drunken antics, you wouldn't have anything to discuss at the company water cooler today.
For me Kenny is like one of those guys you would avoid talking to at parties, the guy with crazy eyes that always gets drunk too soon, tells… more racist jokes and gets in fights over trifles. The thing is if you look at season 2 the party is bursting with morons, egomaniacs, dullards, trigger-happy idiots and outright psychos that his flaws suddenly don’t stand out that much and you're somehow glad to see him. At least you know what you’re letting yourself in for.
If this is villainous is open to interpretation. But don’t forget about the bonding moments that were forced on you, like changing his bandage. They wouldn’t let you do that if they want to present him as villain. I dunno. I just see him as another headcase on the looong list of headcases we got to know in TWD.
You could say the same thing about Jane. She forced Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny, and if that isn't cruel i don't know what is. I don't think Kenny is selfish imo, i think he is just hard headed/stubborn his way or the highway. He can't be reasoned with, unless you kick his ass IE Lee on Train.
Kenny is a selfish bastard.
He admits to Clem that he knows Wellington might be bullshit, but he insists on dragging the children he suppo… moresedly cares about along with him anyway. Without any supplies and without any real idea where Wellington might be. Purely for his own salvation.
That they actually find Wellington in his endings I find insulting. All three should be dead. Seems he got lucky again. Real lucky.
But a villain, I'd still say no.The malicious intent I associate with villains seems to be missing.
On a villain scale I'd put him one spot above Sam. :P
That is a response I was expecting, and I'm also glad. This proves the point that everyone's play through is interpreted and played differently. Everyone has different opinions, in mine, Kenny is family. You cannot change my mind on that, just how I can't change yours.
Also...in my play through anyway...Kenny did show unconditional love for me, and I'm not joking, everything he did was either to protect me or Alvin Jr, yeah, we had arguments when I chopped Sarita's arm off (rip)...but we forgave and forgot.
I think Kenny was presented as more of an antagonist than an actual villain. While Villains are also antagonists, an antagonist is not necessarily always a villain. Villains are always evil. Kenny wasn't evil, but he did stand in opposition to group consensus a lot. Now, Kenny is villainous at times, like when he uses any reason he can to beat up on Arvo..but Kenny is antagonistic in season 1 as well. The dynamics are a little different in S2 b/c Kenny is directly looking out for Clementine...Carver was more of a villain...at Howes he turns into a one dimensional bad guy who only wants power and control over other people's lives; there's no attempt to humanize Carver so that the audience can empathize or even sympathize with him. Villains are evil b/c, through their villainous actions, the audience lacks the capacity to empathize or sympathize for the villain.
Just imagine what episode 5 would have been like if Kenny had died in the gunfight.
Arvo wouldn't have been abused. Mike and Bonnie poking fun at Luke and Jane's romance by the campfire, with Arvo either with them or doing what he wants.
She didn't force Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny. She was hoping that after showing how dangerous Kenny was, Clementine might want to leave him. She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all.
Think about it: if she wanted Clem to have to shoot Kenny, she wouldn't have asked her desperately not to get involved. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing even her own expectations of the situation.
Kenny is a selfish bastard.
You could say the same thing about Jane. She forced Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny, a… morend if that isn't cruel i don't know what is. I don't think Kenny is selfish imo, i think he is just hard headed/stubborn his way or the highway. He can't be reasoned with, unless you kick his ass IE Lee on Train.
I've seen people on these forums giving Kenny shit from Season 1, allot longer than Jane. I'd choose Jane over Kenny any day but Kenny's suffered too, you can't blame people for things they can't control. Jane can be blamed for deceiving Kenny and acting like AJ died, not to mention being the main reason the Russian Group attacked Clementine's group and Kenny can be blamed for people wanting to get away from the group and in turn betraying other group members and can be blamed for the death of groups members.
I never said going through shit was an excusable grounds for being horrible to others. It seems to me that most people think that just because everyone else goes through shit too that they'll take it the same way, some people CAN'T take crap the same way, some people can't control their anger or anxiety which in turn becomes a threat to the people they care about. Every character has gone through shit, every character has good intentions but that doesn't mean they can handle it.
People are just as quick to blame Jane for her attitude brought about by the crud she's been through though.
Going through shit does not give you an excuse to be horrible to others without being judged for it.
If you ask me, Jane's asking Clementine not to get involved was a manipulation move.
She wanted her to get involve if things went sideways, but posed as if she didn't, aka: reverse psychology.
And she knew what Kenny was going to do, she even admitted that when Kenny had her pinned to the ground and told her he would kill her, Jane's response was: "I knew you would."
Kenny was obviously not in his right mind.
But then again, I don't think anyone would be, after having experienced what Kenny had.
In Season 1 he lost his wife and son, and in Season 2 he lost Sarita.
And his confrontation with Jane was just days after the latter incident.
So Kenny was in a deep state of mental and emotional anguish, and due to what happened to him in S1, his character is probably suffering from PTSD, a condition that many army veterans are diagnosed with after they have served in combat.
And in the end, Kenny showed just how much he cared about Clementine and the Baby, as illustrated in his plea that they be allowed to stay in Wellington, even though that meant he would probably never see them again.
She didn't force Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny. She was hoping that after showing how dangerous Kenny was, Clementine mi… moreght want to leave him. She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all.
Think about it: if she wanted Clem to have to shoot Kenny, she wouldn't have asked her desperately not to get involved. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing even her own expectations of the situation.
She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing even her own expectations of the situation.
Oh, that’s nice. Do you have anything to back that up or is this just wishful thinking? I’m just asking, because everything Jane said and did is pointing in the opposite direction.
She compared Kenny with Carver. So what is Carver standing for? I would say his outstanding attributes are his murderous nature and his tendency to kill people that cross him without flinching. So what did she expect of Kenny after provoking him? That he pulls her by the hair and calls her a meany? Of course she anticipated what would happen. Everyone who knew Kenny and his obsession with the baby for more than a day would have. And Jane sure wasn’t one to believe in the good in man.
And for another thing: Her plan would make no sense at all, if she only wanted to prove Kenny’s willingness to resort to violence. Clem has seen that with Arvo (and in countless other cases). Nothing new there.
It's funny that demonising Kenny goes hand in hand with glorifying Jane for most of you. Seriously, way to cherry pick.
She didn't force Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny. She was hoping that after showing how dangerous Kenny was, Clementine mi… moreght want to leave him. She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all.
Think about it: if she wanted Clem to have to shoot Kenny, she wouldn't have asked her desperately not to get involved. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing even her own expectations of the situation.
What've Kenny was never in the game to begin with?
Think of how much people would've been alive. Lee, Carley/Doug, Larry, Ben, Shaun, everyone really... Lee and Clementine would've lived together happily ever after with Carley and Doug, Lilly and her father would've both been alive and sane, Kenny's terrible family would've never been in the plot just to die for his arc... I mean, just imagine that shit.
Yeah.
Just imagine what episode 5 would have been like if Kenny had died in the gunfight.
Arvo wouldn't have been abused. Mike and Bon… morenie poking fun at Luke and Jane's romance by the campfire, with Arvo either with them or doing what he wants.
Sigh.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they originally plan to go to that small town nearby? It's true, Kenny didn't mention it again, but everyone else acted like trusting Arvo, a guy whose whole group – including his sister – you just killed, was the only reasonable and possible thing to do. This doesn’t sound any more reliable than a diceroll to me, actually less. It was okay for me though, because in case of need you have to throw diplomacy and discussions over board. Exactly what Kenny did when he wanted to drive off to look for Wellington. Only his result was better.
It's not like Kenny presented an alternative plan to going to the shed, other than let's kill Arvo.
Finding Wellington was like finding a needle in a haystack.
A needle that may or may not exist.
You don't risk lives on a diceroll.
She didn't force Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny.
She provoked a unstable man into a fight, then pulled a blade, then expected a eleven year old girl to kill someone she knew from her past, to save her life, over a lie she told. She knew Clementine cared about Kenny, imo it was extremely heartlessly cruel to put her in that situation.
She didn't force Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny. She was hoping that after showing how dangerous Kenny was, Clementine mi… moreght want to leave him. She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all.
Think about it: if she wanted Clem to have to shoot Kenny, she wouldn't have asked her desperately not to get involved. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing even her own expectations of the situation.
She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing eve… moren her own expectations of the situation.
Oh, that’s nice. Do you have anything to back that up or is this just wishful thinking? I’m just asking, because everything Jane said and did is pointing in the opposite direction.
She compared Kenny with Carver. So what is Carver standing for? I would say his outstanding attributes are his murderous nature and his tendency to kill people that cross him without flinching. So what did she expect of Kenny after provoking him? That he pulls her by the hair and calls her a meany? Of course she anticipated what would happen. Everyone who knew Kenny and his obsession with the baby for more than a day would have. And Jane sure wasn’t one to believe in the good in man.
And for another thing: Her plan would make no sense at all, if she only wanted to prove Ken… [view original content]
I've seen people on these forums giving Kenny shit from Season 1, allot longer than Jane. I'd choose Jane over Kenny any day but Kenny's suf… morefered too, you can't blame people for things they can't control. Jane can be blamed for deceiving Kenny and acting like AJ died, not to mention being the main reason the Russian Group attacked Clementine's group and Kenny can be blamed for people wanting to get away from the group and in turn betraying other group members and can be blamed for the death of groups members.
I never said going through shit was an excusable grounds for being horrible to others. It seems to me that most people think that just because everyone else goes through shit too that they'll take it the same way, some people CAN'T take crap the same way, some people can't control their anger or anxiety which in turn becomes a threat to the people they care about. Every character has gone through shit, every character has good intentions but that doesn't mean they can handle it.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they originally plan to go to that small town nearby? It's true, Kenny didn't mention it again
No, that was never a plan. They merely observed the town's existence.
The writers forgot about the town. Or just decided it wasn't right for the narrative. It's not the group ignoring the town's existence.
in case of need you have to throw diplomacy and discussions over board. in case of need you have to throw diplomacy and discussions over board.
What case of need? Most of the group wanted to go back to Howe's. This was shown to be a viable option. There was no need to try to go to Wellington. Kenny is the only member of the group apart from Clementine (determinantly) who wants to go there, and there are other viable options.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they originally plan to go to that small town nearby? It's true, Kenny didn't mention it again, but every… moreone else acted like trusting Arvo, a guy whose whole group – including his sister – you just killed, was the only reasonable and possible thing to do. This doesn’t sound any more reliable than a diceroll to me, actually less. It was okay for me though, because in case of need you have to throw diplomacy and discussions over board. Exactly what Kenny did when he wanted to drive off to look for Wellington. Only his result was better.
You're ignoring the part where she puts away the blade before she is slammed against the wall by Kenny.
Clementine cared about Kenny
Determinant. My Clementine didn't care about him because she knew that he refused to help look for her while she was missing just because he didn't like Lee, and that he had left Lee to die under a door for not helping kill Larry.
She didn't force Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny.
She provoked a unstable man into a fight, then pulled a blade, t… morehen expected a eleven year old girl to kill someone she knew from her past, to save her life, over a lie she told. She knew Clementine cared about Kenny, imo it was extremely heartlessly cruel to put her in that situation.
Do you have anything to back that up or is this just wishful thinking?
Other than the look of sheer fear on her face after he continues to attack her after she puts away her weapon, and the fact that she specifically states 'I didn't think he'd go that far'?
Her plan would make no sense at all, if she only wanted to prove Kenny’s willingness to resort to violence.
He hadn't done this to an established member of the group before, and she wanted to show what could well happen specifically if AJ was lost.
She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing eve… moren her own expectations of the situation.
Oh, that’s nice. Do you have anything to back that up or is this just wishful thinking? I’m just asking, because everything Jane said and did is pointing in the opposite direction.
She compared Kenny with Carver. So what is Carver standing for? I would say his outstanding attributes are his murderous nature and his tendency to kill people that cross him without flinching. So what did she expect of Kenny after provoking him? That he pulls her by the hair and calls her a meany? Of course she anticipated what would happen. Everyone who knew Kenny and his obsession with the baby for more than a day would have. And Jane sure wasn’t one to believe in the good in man.
And for another thing: Her plan would make no sense at all, if she only wanted to prove Ken… [view original content]
Other than the look of sheer fear on her face after he continues to attack her after she puts away her weapon, and the fact that she specifically states 'I didn't think he'd go that far'?
No, then. Alrighty.
and she wanted to show what could well happen specifically if AJ was lost.
That's as necessary as an experiment where everybody knows the outcome beforehand.
Do you have anything to back that up or is this just wishful thinking?
Other than the look of sheer fear on her face after he contin… moreues to attack her after she puts away her weapon, and the fact that she specifically states 'I didn't think he'd go that far'?
Her plan would make no sense at all, if she only wanted to prove Kenny’s willingness to resort to violence.
He hadn't done this to an established member of the group before, and she wanted to show what could well happen specifically if AJ was lost.
Nah, I don't think so. Telltale was offering a choice for what you thought was right. In my vision I saw Jane provoking the fight, I instantly knew she hid the baby, and after seeing the fight I saw Jane was just as unstable as Kenny. So I stuck with Kenny.
What case of need? Well, that depends on what you think about the plan of going back to Howe’s – a place that was bursting with walkers and psychos when you’ve been there the last time. And it depends on Kenny’s ability to get the wrecked car going again whenever the group pleases to leave. And on how secure you feel in a house without fortifications or such.
Most of the group wanted to go back to Howe's
Not in my playthrough. It was Howe's for Jane, Texas or something for Mike, Wellington for Kenny and I didn't have an opinion, but I liked the Mexico sticker in the car. Well and Bonnie was feeding the fishes.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they originally plan to go to that small town nearby? It's true, Kenny didn't mention it again
No… more, that was never a plan. They merely observed the town's existence.
The writers forgot about the town. Or just decided it wasn't right for the narrative. It's not the group ignoring the town's existence.
in case of need you have to throw diplomacy and discussions over board. in case of need you have to throw diplomacy and discussions over board.
What case of need? Most of the group wanted to go back to Howe's. This was shown to be a viable option. There was no need to try to go to Wellington. Kenny is the only member of the group apart from Clementine (determinantly) who wants to go there, and there are other viable options.
Never really thought about that. I guess Kenny had some hand for most of the character death's, even if it was indirectly.
So here's a list:
Shawn - Ran away when he needed help. (Direct)
Larry - Crushed his skull. (Direct)
Carley/Doug (If Saved) - Broke Lily's spirit until she finally snapped and shot Carley or accidentally killed Doug. (Indirect)
Lee - By stealing from the stranger this resulted in Clementine getting kidnapped and Lee getting bitten looking for her. (Indirect)
Ben (Determinant) - Falling in the alleyway looking for Clementine. (Indirect)
Brie - Attempting to attack Ben and then arguing with everyone which distracted her. (Indirect)
Johnny - Shot him to try and save the group. (Direct)
Walter - Killing Johnny had Carver kill Walter in return. (Indirect)
Alvin (Determinant) - Shot Carver, and Carver kills Alvin in return. (Indirect)
Carver - Smashed his face in. (Direct)
Buriko - Killed him in the shootout. (Direct)
Vitali - Shot him after Jane stabbed him. (Direct)
Natasha - Shot by Kenny. (This can be backed by Vitali's dialogue to Kenny: "You've killed Natasha, you bastard! He is already dead! You'll only help him!")
Jane (Determinant) - Stabbed her. (Direct)
Looks to me Kenny had indirectly got a lot of people killed. Even though other's are also responsible for their death's, Kenny was involved in a lot of them.
I got something better.
What've Kenny was never in the game to begin with?
Think of how much people would've been alive. Lee, Carley/D… moreoug, Larry, Ben, Shaun, everyone really... Lee and Clementine would've lived together happily ever after with Carley and Doug, Lilly and her father would've both been alive and sane, Kenny's terrible family would've never been in the plot just to die for his arc... I mean, just imagine that shit.
Who knows how the herd plan would have worked out if Kenny didn't waste precious time on his revenge.
Maybe you can add Carlos, Sarita, Troy and Nick to the list. And everybody else that died afterwards. :P
Never really thought about that. I guess Kenny had some hand for most of the character death's, even if it was indirectly.
So here's a li… morest:
Shawn - Ran away when he needed help. (Direct)
Larry - Crushed his skull. (Direct)
Carley/Doug (If Saved) - Broke Lily's spirit until she finally snapped and shot Carley or accidentally killed Doug. (Indirect)
Lee - By stealing from the stranger this resulted in Clementine getting kidnapped and Lee getting bitten looking for her. (Indirect)
Ben (Determinant) - Falling in the alleyway looking for Clementine. (Indirect)
Brie - Attempting to attack Ben and then arguing with everyone which distracted her. (Indirect)
Johnny - Shot him to try and save the group. (Direct)
Walter - Killing Johnny had Carver kill Walter in return. (Indirect)
Alvin (Determinant) - Shot Carver, and Carver kills Alvin in return. (Indirect)
Carver - Smashed his face in. (Direct)
Buriko - Killed him… [view original content]
I got something better.
What've Kenny was never in the game to begin with?
Think of how much people would've been alive. Lee, Carley/D… moreoug, Larry, Ben, Shaun, everyone really... Lee and Clementine would've lived together happily ever after with Carley and Doug, Lilly and her father would've both been alive and sane, Kenny's terrible family would've never been in the plot just to die for his arc... I mean, just imagine that shit.
Comments
Upvote.
Nate
I don't think he was a villain but I resented his entire comeback in season 2. I don't think he was deserving of any kind of redemption. Before he lost anyone in season 1, he proved he was a douche bag right from the get-go. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I think he's a pretty shitty human being and the writers were trying to force us to like him.
Kenny is a good person, he just can't control his temper, he's been through allot of crud, you can say that it's no excuse, however, since when was everyone heartless and lacking in compassion for their passed loved ones?
Nate was a villain?
He gave a kid a ride, helped him find a date and he helped ease the suffering of an elderly couple. That's not villainous at all.
For me Kenny is like one of those guys you would avoid talking to at parties, the guy with crazy eyes that always gets drunk too soon, tells racist jokes and gets in fights over trifles. The thing is if you look at season 2 the party is bursting with morons, egomaniacs, dullards, trigger-happy idiots and outright psychos that his flaws suddenly don’t stand out that much and you're somehow glad to see him. At least you know what you’re letting yourself in for.
If this is villainous is open to interpretation. But don’t forget about the bonding moments that were forced on you, like changing his bandage. They wouldn’t let you do that if they want to present him as villain. I dunno. I just see him as another headcase on the looong list of headcases we got to know in TWD.
To be honest, people who genuinely chose to kill Kenny didn't really read the situation. There are tons of clear hints why in the end, Kenny is the right choice to keep alive.
That female character I already forgot the name of, has psychopathic tendencies and left her sister behind due being somewhat sociopath or simply got traumatized by it. Then she tries to replace Clementine as her lost little sister which is definitely sick considering how far she went. She was ready to kill the baby after all.
I chose to shoot Kenny because he was going to kill someone on impulse, and for the crime they did not technically commit.
Jane may have been twisted to hide the baby to provoke Kenny, but she didn't intend to kill the baby, since the baby is alive in the car and not being fed to the walkers or suffocated in a pile of snow, as a pragmatic survivor would have done.
Suppose if Jane was replaced by Luke, and in a tragic accident, Luke was the one to lose the baby. Kenny would have still attempted to kill on impulse, without knowing the full story and without knowing that the person he's trying to kill is innocent all along.
He lost control of himself too many times, and now he proved that he has the impulse to kill and is unable to stop himself for it. That's why I shot him.
People are just as quick to blame Jane for her attitude brought about by the crud she's been through though.
Going through shit does not give you an excuse to be horrible to others without being judged for it.
The game just as clearly hints that Kenny is trying to replace duck with clementine.
Not that that's the only issue with your post, such as there being no right choice, and the fact that lots of us wanted to get rid of kenny before he attacked Jane.
And
Fucking seriously? You expect people to think your comment is reasonable and worth considering when you say things like that?
Ok. Give me 5 clear reasons, which have nothing to do with opinion or perspective, on why it is 100% the only right choice to let Kenny kill Jane.
I mean, the entire point of the game is that it's based on perspective. But you apparently disagree with Telltale on that, so go for it. 5 clear unambiguous reasons, please.
Kenny is a selfish bastard.
He admits to Clem that he knows Wellington might be bullshit, but he insists on dragging the children he supposedly cares about along with him anyway. Without any supplies and without any real idea where Wellington might be. Purely for his own salvation.
That they actually find Wellington in his endings I find insulting. All three should be dead. Seems he got lucky again. Real lucky.
But a villain, I'd still say no.The malicious intent I associate with villains seems to be missing.
On a villain scale I'd put him one spot above Sam. :P
Don't forget that going to Wellington is actually voted down by the majority of the group, but he doesn't care and refuses to let them go somewhere else.
And he tries emotional blackmail on Clementine if she doesn't agree with everything he says.
Okay I changed my mind, he's a dirty rotten villain! :P
I've stated this previously. But no one in the entire series has done more cumulative damage to the characters and their progress than Kenny.
If I wanted to provoke you I'd point out that when the group decided where to go, they ended up wandering miles and miles to a shabby half built hut on a death trap. Kenny opposed the idea from the beginning.
When Kenny decided where to go they found Wellington, the probably only safe place within who knows how many miles around. Sometimes the end does justify the mean, no?
It's not like Kenny presented an alternative plan to going to the shed, other than let's kill Arvo.
Finding Wellington was like finding a needle in a haystack.
A needle that may or may not exist.
You don't risk lives on a diceroll.
Obvious right, from your behavior in your previously locked thread.
You know it, we make the party worth going to, if it wasn't for our drunken antics, you wouldn't have anything to discuss at the company water cooler today.
You could say the same thing about Jane. She forced Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny, and if that isn't cruel i don't know what is. I don't think Kenny is selfish imo, i think he is just hard headed/stubborn his way or the highway. He can't be reasoned with, unless you kick his ass IE Lee on Train.
That is a response I was expecting, and I'm also glad. This proves the point that everyone's play through is interpreted and played differently. Everyone has different opinions, in mine, Kenny is family. You cannot change my mind on that, just how I can't change yours.
Also...in my play through anyway...Kenny did show unconditional love for me, and I'm not joking, everything he did was either to protect me or Alvin Jr, yeah, we had arguments when I chopped Sarita's arm off (rip)...but we forgave and forgot.
I think Kenny was presented as more of an antagonist than an actual villain. While Villains are also antagonists, an antagonist is not necessarily always a villain. Villains are always evil. Kenny wasn't evil, but he did stand in opposition to group consensus a lot. Now, Kenny is villainous at times, like when he uses any reason he can to beat up on Arvo..but Kenny is antagonistic in season 1 as well. The dynamics are a little different in S2 b/c Kenny is directly looking out for Clementine...Carver was more of a villain...at Howes he turns into a one dimensional bad guy who only wants power and control over other people's lives; there's no attempt to humanize Carver so that the audience can empathize or even sympathize with him. Villains are evil b/c, through their villainous actions, the audience lacks the capacity to empathize or sympathize for the villain.
Yeah.
Just imagine what episode 5 would have been like if Kenny had died in the gunfight.
Arvo wouldn't have been abused. Mike and Bonnie poking fun at Luke and Jane's romance by the campfire, with Arvo either with them or doing what he wants.
Sigh.
She didn't force Clementine to make a choice between her and Kenny. She was hoping that after showing how dangerous Kenny was, Clementine might want to leave him. She didn't think he'd try to murder her, and no choice would be 'forced' at all.
Think about it: if she wanted Clem to have to shoot Kenny, she wouldn't have asked her desperately not to get involved. She was shocked at how violent Kenny became, surpassing even her own expectations of the situation.
I've seen people on these forums giving Kenny shit from Season 1, allot longer than Jane. I'd choose Jane over Kenny any day but Kenny's suffered too, you can't blame people for things they can't control. Jane can be blamed for deceiving Kenny and acting like AJ died, not to mention being the main reason the Russian Group attacked Clementine's group and Kenny can be blamed for people wanting to get away from the group and in turn betraying other group members and can be blamed for the death of groups members.
I never said going through shit was an excusable grounds for being horrible to others. It seems to me that most people think that just because everyone else goes through shit too that they'll take it the same way, some people CAN'T take crap the same way, some people can't control their anger or anxiety which in turn becomes a threat to the people they care about. Every character has gone through shit, every character has good intentions but that doesn't mean they can handle it.
If you ask me, Jane's asking Clementine not to get involved was a manipulation move.
She wanted her to get involve if things went sideways, but posed as if she didn't, aka: reverse psychology.
And she knew what Kenny was going to do, she even admitted that when Kenny had her pinned to the ground and told her he would kill her, Jane's response was: "I knew you would."
Kenny was obviously not in his right mind.
But then again, I don't think anyone would be, after having experienced what Kenny had.
In Season 1 he lost his wife and son, and in Season 2 he lost Sarita.
And his confrontation with Jane was just days after the latter incident.
So Kenny was in a deep state of mental and emotional anguish, and due to what happened to him in S1, his character is probably suffering from PTSD, a condition that many army veterans are diagnosed with after they have served in combat.
And in the end, Kenny showed just how much he cared about Clementine and the Baby, as illustrated in his plea that they be allowed to stay in Wellington, even though that meant he would probably never see them again.
Oh, that’s nice. Do you have anything to back that up or is this just wishful thinking? I’m just asking, because everything Jane said and did is pointing in the opposite direction.
She compared Kenny with Carver. So what is Carver standing for? I would say his outstanding attributes are his murderous nature and his tendency to kill people that cross him without flinching. So what did she expect of Kenny after provoking him? That he pulls her by the hair and calls her a meany? Of course she anticipated what would happen. Everyone who knew Kenny and his obsession with the baby for more than a day would have. And Jane sure wasn’t one to believe in the good in man.
And for another thing: Her plan would make no sense at all, if she only wanted to prove Kenny’s willingness to resort to violence. Clem has seen that with Arvo (and in countless other cases). Nothing new there.
It's funny that demonising Kenny goes hand in hand with glorifying Jane for most of you. Seriously, way to cherry pick.
I got something better.
What've Kenny was never in the game to begin with?
Think of how much people would've been alive. Lee, Carley/Doug, Larry, Ben, Shaun, everyone really... Lee and Clementine would've lived together happily ever after with Carley and Doug, Lilly and her father would've both been alive and sane, Kenny's terrible family would've never been in the plot just to die for his arc... I mean, just imagine that shit.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they originally plan to go to that small town nearby? It's true, Kenny didn't mention it again, but everyone else acted like trusting Arvo, a guy whose whole group – including his sister – you just killed, was the only reasonable and possible thing to do. This doesn’t sound any more reliable than a diceroll to me, actually less. It was okay for me though, because in case of need you have to throw diplomacy and discussions over board. Exactly what Kenny did when he wanted to drive off to look for Wellington. Only his result was better.
She provoked a unstable man into a fight, then pulled a blade, then expected a eleven year old girl to kill someone she knew from her past, to save her life, over a lie she told. She knew Clementine cared about Kenny, imo it was extremely heartlessly cruel to put her in that situation.
It worked to me, i mean did you not see Kenny react in a predictable manner?
What couldn't Kenny control?
Could he control his wife dying? No.
Could he control refusing to help save clementine because he didn't like my Lee? Yep.
Could he control attacking Jane after she put away the knife? Yep.
Could Jane control hiding the baby? Yep.
Could Jane control Luke's death? Nope.
It works both ways. But someone ALWAYS has to have some degree of control over their actions. Otherwise our entire law system would make no sense.
No, that was never a plan. They merely observed the town's existence.
The writers forgot about the town. Or just decided it wasn't right for the narrative. It's not the group ignoring the town's existence.
What case of need? Most of the group wanted to go back to Howe's. This was shown to be a viable option. There was no need to try to go to Wellington. Kenny is the only member of the group apart from Clementine (determinantly) who wants to go there, and there are other viable options.
You're ignoring the part where she puts away the blade before she is slammed against the wall by Kenny.
Determinant. My Clementine didn't care about him because she knew that he refused to help look for her while she was missing just because he didn't like Lee, and that he had left Lee to die under a door for not helping kill Larry.
Other than the look of sheer fear on her face after he continues to attack her after she puts away her weapon, and the fact that she specifically states 'I didn't think he'd go that far'?
He hadn't done this to an established member of the group before, and she wanted to show what could well happen specifically if AJ was lost.
No, then. Alrighty.
That's as necessary as an experiment where everybody knows the outcome beforehand.
Nah, I don't think so. Telltale was offering a choice for what you thought was right. In my vision I saw Jane provoking the fight, I instantly knew she hid the baby, and after seeing the fight I saw Jane was just as unstable as Kenny. So I stuck with Kenny.
What case of need? Well, that depends on what you think about the plan of going back to Howe’s – a place that was bursting with walkers and psychos when you’ve been there the last time. And it depends on Kenny’s ability to get the wrecked car going again whenever the group pleases to leave. And on how secure you feel in a house without fortifications or such.
Not in my playthrough. It was Howe's for Jane, Texas or something for Mike, Wellington for Kenny and I didn't have an opinion, but I liked the Mexico sticker in the car. Well and Bonnie was feeding the fishes.
Never really thought about that. I guess Kenny had some hand for most of the character death's, even if it was indirectly.
So here's a list:
Shawn - Ran away when he needed help. (Direct)
Larry - Crushed his skull. (Direct)
Carley/Doug (If Saved) - Broke Lily's spirit until she finally snapped and shot Carley or accidentally killed Doug. (Indirect)
Lee - By stealing from the stranger this resulted in Clementine getting kidnapped and Lee getting bitten looking for her. (Indirect)
Ben (Determinant) - Falling in the alleyway looking for Clementine. (Indirect)
Brie - Attempting to attack Ben and then arguing with everyone which distracted her. (Indirect)
Johnny - Shot him to try and save the group. (Direct)
Walter - Killing Johnny had Carver kill Walter in return. (Indirect)
Alvin (Determinant) - Shot Carver, and Carver kills Alvin in return. (Indirect)
Carver - Smashed his face in. (Direct)
Buriko - Killed him in the shootout. (Direct)
Vitali - Shot him after Jane stabbed him. (Direct)
Natasha - Shot by Kenny. (This can be backed by Vitali's dialogue to Kenny: "You've killed Natasha, you bastard! He is already dead! You'll only help him!")
Jane (Determinant) - Stabbed her. (Direct)
Looks to me Kenny had indirectly got a lot of people killed. Even though other's are also responsible for their death's, Kenny was involved in a lot of them.
Edit: Fixed some, added another character.
Who knows how the herd plan would have worked out if Kenny didn't waste precious time on his revenge.
Maybe you can add Carlos, Sarita, Troy and Nick to the list. And everybody else that died afterwards. :P
Technically Shawn would still end up dead, since he's doomed by canon