Why do people support Psycho Kenny but not Lily?
I've never noticed this till after replaying the season 2 finale, but Kenny kills Jane in some endings. So why is it okay on here for him to kill Jane but it's not okay for Lily to kill Carley/Doug?
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Neither are okay.
Lily kills Carley over an insult, Kenny kills Jane over assumed baby murder.
Also, prepare for war, from Kenny fans and Jane fans.
.>implying Lilly isn't a psycho herself
The dynamics of season 1 I feel kind of implicitly want to guide the player into siding with Kenny, probably due how things turn out with Lilly; regardless of whether you let her stay or leave her behind, she still end up out of the group. Also, I think Carley's murder really puts people over the edge regarding Lilly--depression and paranoia from losing Larry may have still affected Lilly, but that still doesn't justify Lilly shooting Carley in the face. However, both Lilly and Kenny are two different shades of crazy
When Carley was standing up to Lilly, she wasn't trying to instigate a physical confrontation...she was calling Lilly out on her paranoia and leadership issues. Jane, on the other hand intentionally instigated a fight with Kenny. She knew that A.j was the last thing keeping Kenny grounded and that if given the choice, Clementine might choose Kenny over her....she had a strong intuition that Kenny would snap...Even if her predominant intention was ask Kenny to walk away, she knew that a fight was a very likely outcome....that's why she told Clem to stay out of it and immediately grabs for her blade when Kenny re-enters the rest station....Carley's intention was not to start a fight...it was to end the argument.....Jane intended to provoke Kenny into attacking her so she'd have a legit reason to kill him. That's why the murder of Carley is different from the murder of Jane
Kenny has been around for basically the whole series. Lilly was only in 3 episodes
Quite frankly, cause Jane was dangerous.
Carly was harmless.
Because Jane used deception to provoke Kenny into coming after her, Kenny isn't a psychopath, he's just hot-headed, he gets angry so easily because barely anything goes the way he wants them to, he means well but everyone treats him like he's insane, whenever something good happens to him, other people take that away. As for Lilly, it was the same with her, the entire group started looking at her like she was insane, they took her happiness away from her, which is exactly what happened to Kenny.
Because they are completely different situations? There is a large difference between getting angry at someone over an argument, and getting angry over the murder of a baby.
Kenny-haters may say that the 'baby was alive in the end...blah blah blah', but in a freezing snowstorm with hundreds of walkers around, it almost gives it away that she lost the baby when she walked into the room empty-handed, thus Kenny's reaction, since he treated Alvin Jr like his own son. Unless, of course, she is a lying psychopath who's sole intention is to bring out the 'evil' in people...and guess what happened.
Lilly, on the other hand, had no reason to. EVEN if it was Doug/Carley who were 'traitors', no one was killed, and there was a whole group to discuss the aftermath of the situation, not just two people and a young girl. I believe Lily deserved it worse than Jane.
First off there have been text wars over this. So it's not ok on here for Kenny killing Jane. Lilly killy Carly/Doug was completely different. She straight up shot them in the face.
They are both Psycho's but I like Kenny a bit more.
They were both coming undone. But fine, I'll bite: Lily killed completely innocent people. Jane, on the other hand, did something extremely questionable.
She's nowhere near the same caliber as "dur, hiz ded cause I say so. I'mma smash hiz head n" Kenny.
Apples and oranges.
Yeah. Kenny smashed a guy who was about to become a Walker. Lilly shoots Carly/Doug in the face because she's upset. Yeah she sounds way less crazy than Kenny
Oh right, I forgot. Larry was dead... according to you and him, I need no more evidence to support it now.
Kenny showed no compassion for Lilly's suffering and constantly bullied her after he had viciously murdered her father in cold blood. There's a word for that, it's called a sociopath.
Kenny: "There's enough food here for everyone!"
Lilly: "Not everyone."
Kenny: "Ugh."
Yeah, that's not concerning at all. It was like swatting a fly for him.
Actually I tried to maintain balance between the two. But then Lilly stole the RV and left the party. It's hard to support anyone after they have abandoned the party, but had she stayed I would have given her chance to redeem herself. In Season 2 I stayed loyal to Kenny, because he was more loyal to Clem and A.J. than Jane was.
I support both psychos. Go team!
lol Murdered in cold blood... His heart had stopped! You do know that if someone has a heart attack you can't bring them back with CPR right? Unless she planned on doing open heart surgery he was dead. See that's what I'm talking about. You ignore obvious things because of the emotions you feel for him. Also did you ignore him telling her how sorry he was after he did it? As for him being mean to her that was because they had mutual hate for each other. Based on the things you have said I'm thinking you would be just as cold as you say he is. When you hate someone, you don't mind sharing it.
I wasn't talking about Kenny though, I was talking about Lilly, lol.
I don't hate Lilly at all. If I'm right she'll act more hostile towards you if you helped Kenny kill Larry, but if you don't [often the one I go for] you see her in a less aggressive and less mentally unstable light. What she did to Carley and Doug [attempted murder to Ben anyway] was wrong, but I can understand her character at that point. She lost her dad, and the guy or guys that refused to help her revive him are within her group. How powerless would you feel about that not being able to save your dad? How could you trust anybody after that? And then when Episode 3 takes place there's somebody in the group stealing their supplies and then the incident with the bandits forcing them to flee their only stronghold, it's no wonder Lilly snapped.
But no, it was not okay for Kenny to kill Jane, even if hiding the baby was damn stupid [come on she's smarter than that Telltale >_<] Kenny overeacted, and can potential end up killing Jane as a result, but afterwards he openly admits he lost it and even that he doesn't trust himself with A.J if you chose to abandon him afterwards. And Lilly wasn't exactly emotionless after murdering neither; she loses her tough act, saying 'it had to be done' because hey, friendly reminder they nearly all got killed a few minutes before because of a rat in their group. The issue with Lilly at that point is that she shouldn't have been in charge because she emotionally wasn't capable of it at that time, like Kenny shouldn't have been in charge towards the end of Season 2 because he was still not handling things well emotionally, still grieving Sarita and his own family.
Also another friendly reminder, Lee murdered a guy out anger for having an affair with his wife. Lee, Kenny and Lilly are no different from each other because in all three moments they let their anger get the better of them and somebody died as a result.
In fact, Lilly sums it up pretty well after Kenny calls her a murderer in this scene:
Kenny: That's a bad idea Lee. she's a murderer for shit's sake!
Lilly: Murderer? Lee's killed before and I forgave him. You've killed before and I'll forgive YOU. You both know we do what has to be done!
Kenny: Bullshit you will. You've been planning to get me this entire time.
Lilly: I was trying to protect all of us...I don't have anything left.
Bruh calm down.
And I agree with you, but still.
Sorry Clemintime. This is a silly game, and I shouldn't be rude to you about it.
I'm not Clem XDDD
I support neither. They're both crazy.
I wonder what would have happened if it had been Katjaa getting a saltlick dropped on her head by Lilly.
Don't think Kenny would have been quite as forgiving as Lilly.
Sorry Clemintime. This is a silly game, and I shouldn't be rude to you about it.
Are you kidding, or do you truly mean what you say?
If you mean it, then I'm ready to let bygones be bygones and wipe the slate clean.
Lilly is a very tragic character, and she never got her second chance.
And I was simply debunking your point by reminding you that Kenny's done far FAR worse than shooting someone out of spiteful thoughtless anger.
Not to say that Lilly isn't immune from criticism, but Kenny shouldn't be able to do such heinous acts and get off Scott-free with the flimsy argument "it was justified because of reasons" when Lilly gets hate and even the VA (supposedly) receiving death threats by said Kenny hype-men because of something her character did.
It's mental.
Except that that has nothing to do with what I said. I was pointing out the fact that he's calling Kenny a psycho while ignoring the fact that Lilly is one as well. It doesn't matter who did what, a psycho is a psycho.
Scott-free? I'm pretty sure both characters got their fair share of hate when the episode came out, most people who were around the forums that time can even say it was a mess during that period of Kenny/Lilly hate.
You know, maybe this just factors in to personal interpretation, but I always felt like Kenny was just full of self-loathing after killing Larry and just wasn't capable of dealing with his emotions properly. I never really saw all of the shit he flung at Lilly and the group truly being directed towards them. I think he definitely realizes that he's the bad guy/monster in the story, and he doesn't know how to deal with it, or rather, doesn't know how to face it. It's already been proven that Kenny deals with anger/grief/etc in a very outward and explosive manner, usually blowing up at the people around him and projecting his feelings onto other people.
That annoyed grumbling, for example. I never saw that as some "how dare you be angry that I killed your dad", I saw that in a completely different light. I saw that as something as an attempt to shrug off the fact that he fucked up. Trying to deny what happened, a desperate attempt absolve to himself of dealing with that guilt. That he knows what he did, he knows that Lilly is right to hate him, but he can't live with that burden. He's trying to run away from himself, trying to deny that he's pretty much became a monster back in that meat locker. He's already agonizing and feeling immense guilt over leaving Shawn to die, but having to accept that he killed Larry on top of that is just too much for him to handle, so he just runs from it instead, trying desperately to rewrite and rationalize the story in his head so that he doesn't have to accept that he's the villain (IE. "I saved my family/Clementine from Larry"). It's also part of why he gets so pissy with Lee if he didn't help him. He feels abandoned, forced to stand alone. At least when Lee helps, he can find solace in that even if he did fuck up, there's someone that can share that misery all the same. But having to stand alone when you're in the wrong is never an easy thing to deal with, especially if the "wrong" is pretty much murder.
I find it interesting the way he reacts at the end when you talk to him on the road after the dairy. If you straight of say "You murdered Larry" he automatically tells you off and tries to shift the story in his favor, but if you just said "You're no hero", he solemnly walks away. He even hears Lee out when he tries to follow up by saying he's not a bad man. He doesn't just storm off when you say that. That might be something that could be seen as trivial, but I think it actually says something important in context: he knows that Lee is right. He's willing to listen in that situation because Lee isn't straight up telling him that he's a piece of shit. That's why he shrugs off Lilly, and why he immediately fires back when Lee tells him that he murdered Larry. It's because he's getting actively vilified in those scenarios, getting reminded of a truth that he can't handle. It wasn't like swatting a fly to him, he's actually dealing with a lot of conflicting emotions over that decision and he's agonizing over it, and having everyone saying that he's a monster or that he murdered Larry straight to his face definitely isn't helping him come to any sort of terms with it.
I also saw all the times that he kept insisting that he did what he had to as desperate attempts to convince himself that he made the right call, because deep down, he knows that he made the wrong one.
Shit man this should have been a stand alone post, not a response to this dumb argument. A very good read.
I agree with @DoubleJump ....this should've been a post of it's own
maybe you should re-post this as a stand alone post so there can be a proper dialogue
(looks at thread title)
(gently cradles head and sobs)
Oh he definitely wouldn't have been forgiving at all. We've seen the way he treats Lee at time if you don't side with him
Why are you sobbing over a thread?
It seems like a perfectly legitimate question to me. And I, for one, want to get to the bottom of this mystery.
Any ideals?
But it didn't have to be done because Carley was, in fact, completely innocent