he also didn't want to lose his little girl, so keep her safe and tucked away from anything that would represent danger
Agreed. Carlos wasn't so bad; he was just more blind than others. Not to mention, apart from just Sarah being sheltered, I think Carlos himself (just like the entire Cabin Group, really) seemed to be more sheltered than other survivors, and hence Sarah was doubly-sheltered. They had been living in the relative safety of Carver's camp before they first escaped, and then they lost Nick's mom because they didn't think to restrain that unnamed bitten girl they'd taken in once said girl had died. I mean really, who thinks that a cabin in the middle of the woods with no fence or walls or anything is safe, and safe from a madman looking for you? But I'm getting off-topic.
I mean, even in the TV show in the beginning, Lori (and even Rick at first) don't think it's a good idea for Carl to learn how to shoot, because they were afraid he wasn't mature enough to use it. And I'll be honest--in today's world, I'd be very scared if I ever saw a kid walking around with a gun, because frankly, I don't trust kids I don't know with real guns; I just think they'd be irresponsible with them and could shoot someone accidentally. The ZA's a different story, because kids have to be able to defend themselves, and most kids would hopefully understand the seriousness of the situation. Every parent in the ZA will have to go through that confrontation I believe--wanting to protect their kid from the atrocities of the world, and then coming to realize their kids have to defend themselves, and trusting their kids that they'll be responsible with dangerous weapons. It's just that Carlos hadn't come to that yet.
Well it was confirmed that she had PTSD right? I think Carlos wasn't exactly keeping her weak, more like guarding her against any more traum… moreatizing things. He probably realized that she couldn't handle the ZA, some people aren't built to be the survivor type, but he also didn't want to lose his little girl, so keep her safe and tucked away from anything that would represent danger so she wouldn't freak out and absolutely lose it (multiple reasons why that is bad).
It would also make sense why Carlos would choose to leave Carver's camp. Carver would have pushed her to confront her trauma episodes and if failed she would be considered weak and we all know what he thinks/does to weak people. Also it's why he disliked Clementine as well. Could be a scout for Carver and if not a new potential danger to his daughter, since Clem doesn't know about her condition. Saying or doing anything reckless/dangerous could set her off.
Basically after und… [view original content]
she's like Lisa in the simpsons,people either love her or hate her,because shes not going all out crazy in your face like some of the other characters she's seen as 'different' and 'annoying',it's a shame,theres many layers to Sarahs character
I don't know, maybe something happened with her mother in the past. Either way, it makes me cringe so hard when I see people go "but season 1 Clementine could do more than Sarah and she was only 8!!1" No shit, because Clementine wasn't sheltered and had the knowledge Lee gave her. It never ceases to amaze me how people will look for any reason to hate Sarah. Liability or not, she wasn't viewed as less worthy than anyone else in my eyes.
You seriously expect someone like that to be brave and confident?
You never know how someone is going to react when their life is in… more danger, i seen guys bigger than me, calling for their momma. Shit gets real fast, not everyone can be a hero.
her PTSD
I wonder why TTG chose that disorder, i mean did they research it at all, or did they just label her PTSD for Lucky status.
IMO i think she had normal anxiety a sheltered child would have, i personally don't believe she had any issues other than being a fifteen year old girl who is scared, and upset her dad just died.
Reggie's death was not Sarah's fault at all, that's all on Carver. According to his men, Carver was looking for an excuse to kill Reggie off his own accord because of him aiding the Cabin Group's escape beforehand, and the 'no berries picked today' was simply a half-assed excuse to get rid of him.
Not only that, Sarah's inability to pick berries out of stress and shock over being imprisoned by a tyrannical man and being assaulted by her dad (though not of his own free will) was all Carver's fault in the first place. He kidnaps her and makes her dad hit her, thus why she couldn't function properly for the rest of the day.
And it was indeed confirmed by Telltale in an article that Sarah suffers from PTSD. What kind, how strong, and how it can be triggered is never thoroughly explained in the story, but she does indeed have some form of anxiety disorder as shown throughout the story.
So your apparent friend begging you to come with her instead of sitting around and losing your life and possible the other peoples life can … morebe excused? Didn't people get angry because Duck cost Shawn his life? But when Sarah almost does it, or did with Reggie, it's ok? Isn't that being a hypocrite?
I was meaning when he said you have to consider anyone a living thing. Doesn't matter what age, sex, height, weight etc. If you treat them like little girls, they'll die little girls. The point im trying to make is that the game is based on that way. And people still stick up for her yet she doesn't want to be helped. As it was said earlier, she alerts the group that walkers are coming. Now, if she was really suffering from PTSD, then why would she signal walkers coming when in other circumstances, she just freezes and does nothing? Either you're all way off or telltale really fucked up her character.
What ever happened to Clementine saying " We don't leave friends behind. Maybe in Clementine's mind Sarah wasn't a "friend." Season two Clementine was hard to read emotionally.
I don't know, maybe something happened with her mother in the past. Either way, it makes me cringe so hard when I see people go "but season … more1 Clementine could do more than Sarah and she was only 8!!1" No shit, because Clementine wasn't sheltered and had the knowledge Lee gave her. It never ceases to amaze me how people will look for any reason to hate Sarah. Liability or not, she wasn't viewed as less worthy than anyone else in my eyes.
Yeah the group was probably at Carver's camp for quite a bit and just didn't have the necessary knowledge or fortitude about the ZA to split from Carver's people without handling it properly, that and it was probably a rushed escape since they had to leave poor Reggie behind. I have to assume either Sarah knew of Carver and what he was capable of, but never met him or has met him, but panicked/froze up when he visited the cabin. The rest of the cabin group were essentially a bunch of good/regular civilians that were scared idiots. Hell it could have been Pete who actually ran this group, but since his death we start to see the downfall of this group. Although that said when Pete was alive, we hear nothing but the dumb decisions that you mentioned being made before Clem showed up.
he also didn't want to lose his little girl, so keep her safe and tucked away from anything that would represent danger
Agreed. Carl… moreos wasn't so bad; he was just more blind than others. Not to mention, apart from just Sarah being sheltered, I think Carlos himself (just like the entire Cabin Group, really) seemed to be more sheltered than other survivors, and hence Sarah was doubly-sheltered. They had been living in the relative safety of Carver's camp before they first escaped, and then they lost Nick's mom because they didn't think to restrain that unnamed bitten girl they'd taken in once said girl had died. I mean really, who thinks that a cabin in the middle of the woods with no fence or walls or anything is safe, and safe from a madman looking for you? But I'm getting off-topic.
I mean, even in the TV show in the beginning, Lori (and even Rick at first) don't think it's a good idea for Carl to learn how to shoot, because they w… [view original content]
Reggie's death was not Sarah's fault at all, that's all on Carver.
Reggie could of fought back, it probably would have saved his life, He should have tried to fight, instead he cowardly begged for his life to Carver. IMO i think that probably infuriated him even more, because cowardice, crying, all that is a sign of weakness, make him even more mad, justifying his response into throwing reggie off the roof.
Reggie's death was not Sarah's fault at all, that's all on Carver. According to his men, Carver was looking for an excuse to kill Reggie off… more his own accord because of him aiding the Cabin Group's escape beforehand, and the 'no berries picked today' was simply a half-assed excuse to get rid of him.
Not only that, Sarah's inability to pick berries out of stress and shock over being imprisoned by a tyrannical man and being assaulted by her dad (though not of his own free will) was all Carver's fault in the first place. He kidnaps her and makes her dad hit her, thus why she couldn't function properly for the rest of the day.
And it was indeed confirmed by Telltale in an article that Sarah suffers from PTSD. What kind, how strong, and how it can be triggered is never thoroughly explained in the story, but she does indeed have some form of anxiety disorder as shown throughout the story.
Didn't people get angry because Duck cost Shawn his life? But when Sarah almost does it, or did with Reggie, it's ok? Isn't that being a hypocrite?
Maybe some people thought that way, but not me. Duck was a dumb kid (Kenny said as much); there's no denying that. Still, he can't be held responsible for his actions because, yeah, he's a kid, and was naive just as Sarah was quite naive. And how can you blame Reggie's death on Sarah? Who on earth could've predicted that Carver would throw Reggie off the roof or outright kill him because of a tiny handful of blueberries?
I was meaning when he said you have to consider anyone a living thing. Doesn't matter what age, sex, height, weight etc. If you treat them like little girls, they'll die little girls.
Yeah, I agree with what he said there. But you can't follow that 100%. People are still different, and people need to be treated differently; you can't treat them all the exact same way and expect the exact same results. It's the same thing with the public education system in the U.S.--you can't expect all students to get A's with the same amount of teacher support when one student has two parents and three meals a day and another student has one parent, one meal a day, and is mourning her innocent best friend she lost a few months ago in the cross-fire from local neighborhood violence. You can't expect me to treat all young girls like Sarah or season-1-Clem or Sofia from the show/comics the same as I'd treat a man like Larry or Kenny or Lee, or that I'd treat them all the same as each other either. There's nuances you've got to account for, and people are just plain not going to react the same way if I hand them all a gun and say, "Ok guys, kill some walkers." Like I already said before, if I could've prepared Sarah for the ZA as much as I'd have wanted, and if I could've dealt her some hard truths and helped her digest them a bit better and given her some desperately needed support then I would have, but the game just plain doesn't let you.
Now, if she was really suffering from PTSD, then why would she signal walkers coming when in other circumstances, she just freezes and does nothing?
Or maybe, y'know, she could've been trying to fight her PTSD and was trying to help out the group how she could? Geez you make her sound like a criminal mastermind. Which she clearly was not.
Either you're all way off or telltale really fucked up her character.
Lol maybe...or you know. You could be wrong too. Lol what a concept, right? XD
So your apparent friend begging you to come with her instead of sitting around and losing your life and possible the other peoples life can … morebe excused? Didn't people get angry because Duck cost Shawn his life? But when Sarah almost does it, or did with Reggie, it's ok? Isn't that being a hypocrite?
I was meaning when he said you have to consider anyone a living thing. Doesn't matter what age, sex, height, weight etc. If you treat them like little girls, they'll die little girls. The point im trying to make is that the game is based on that way. And people still stick up for her yet she doesn't want to be helped. As it was said earlier, she alerts the group that walkers are coming. Now, if she was really suffering from PTSD, then why would she signal walkers coming when in other circumstances, she just freezes and does nothing? Either you're all way off or telltale really fucked up her character.
Sarah is what Clementine would have been if Lee/Christa/Chuck never exposed her to the harsh realities of the zombie apocalypse. Heck, Sarah is essentially a more innocent version of Season 1 Clementine. From the moment you meet her, she's child-like, yet you can see a quiet caring nature about her when she offers to help Clementine find supplies for bandaging. As Clementine talks to her more, you realize how deeply the poor girls been sheltered when she doesn't even realize just how bad it is out there. Because of this, I wanted to help her. I wanted Clementine to get close to her and help her survive, because they were the only kids of the group and I saw what Clementine could have been.
The worst part about her character arc is after a certain point, she's never given a chance. After episode 2, Sarah is disregarded as someone who wants to and can potentially change and grow, and is portrayed as an extremely helpless victim for the rest of her time on screen. I don't get why when Sarah ran off in the end of Ep. 3, most people were like "UGH! Sarah you idiot!" when it was a very natural thing to happen. I don't get why when she's paralyzed with fear in the trailer, the only way to get her out is to freaking slap her, and after that I can't even comfort her, as if Clementine's friendship with her meant nothing. I guess Sarah meant nothing in the end to some, which I think is sad, considering the similarities between her and Season 1 Clementine.
Because if people can like characters like Larry, Lilly, Kenny, and Jane, you can expect people to like an innocent young girl. Even if she screws up and never has time to make up for it. Kinda like Ben, huh?
Because if people can like characters like Larry, Lilly, Kenny, and Jane, you can expect people to like an innocent young girl. Even if she screws up and never has time to make up for it. Kinda like Ben, huh?
You're gonna start a shit storm with this thread, but I personally agree with you. I never liked Sarah and never saw the appeal in her. IMO she was just a nuisance to the group.
I was sad when Ben died, but I kind of shrugged off when Sarah died. I feel like I got to know Ben really well, but Sarah's development was lacking. I was irritated when Sarah didn't even have a gun after Carlos died. What was the point of teaching her how to protect herself if she never got the chance to use it?
Because if people can like characters like Larry, Lilly, Kenny, and Jane, you can expect people to like an innocent young girl. Even if she screws up and never has time to make up for it. Kinda like Ben, huh?
I was sad when Ben died, but I kind of shrugged off when Sarah died. I feel like I got to know Ben really well, but Sarah's development was … morelacking. I was irritated when Sarah didn't even have a gun after Carlos died. What was the point of teaching her how to protect herself if she never got the chance to use it?
Because she's a non-threatening personality. No interesting characteristics, no attributes to separate herself from others, no deep marks as a even relatively understandable person. But yet, that yields relatability to some people. People are more than content to have a character just be window dressing and serve no purpose other than to be a charmless sack of anemic pixels that do nothing but showcase the one thing they are known for In a vein attempt to leverage sympathy.
I couldn't stand Sarah, and I'm glad she's out of the story.
Why do people like Sarah?
Because she's a non-threatening personality. No interesting characteristics, no attributes to separate her… moreself from others, no deep marks as a even relatively understandable person. But yet, that yields relatability to some people. People are more than content to have a character just be window dressing and serve no purpose other than to be a charmless sack of anemic pixels that do nothing but showcase the one thing they are known for In a vein attempt to leverage sympathy.
I couldn't stand Sarah, and I'm glad she's out of the story.
No, I'm actually saying the exact opposite. People here need to learn to read slowly and finish before responding.
Sarah has no grounds to be understood as a "character." She was only in the plot to leverage sympathy out of people, which is incredibly boring and she is an anti-personality.
Ironically, Sarah was actually safer by herself until Luke came along to rescue her. His clumsy way of helping her recover by shouting at her ended up attracting the attention of the walkers that may end up killing Sarah in the first place.
I think you just became my favorite person on this forum.
I can't blame everyone for not knowing how to comfort and secure a teenager with anxiety issues, suffering from PTSD, and having just lost h… moreer father, but they're still responsible for her as a group. Their decision to break out of Carver's camp did indirectly get Carlos and possibly Sarita killed in the hoard after all, which was due to gambling with everyone's lives by wading through the hoard with their captivators shooting from the rooftop at them. Had they simply bided their time and took a better opportunity to escape, Amid the Ruins wouldn't have occurred.
Ironically, Sarah was actually safer by herself until Luke came along to rescue her. His clumsy way of helping her recover by shouting at her ended up attracting the attention of the walkers that may end up killing Sarah in the first place.
I did read your post carefully and it does make the implication rather clear, whether you meant to or not:
People are more than content to have a character just be window dressing and serve no purpose other than to be a charmless sack of anemic pixels that do nothing but showcase the one thing they are known for In a vein attempt to leverage sympathy.
It's fine to not understand why people like Sarah and appreciate her character, but to assume that we're being easily influenced into liking and sympathising with Sarah in spite of supposedly being a plot device than an actual character...that's basically calling us shallow for falling into the 'leverage sympathy out of people' trick.
No, I'm actually saying the exact opposite. People here need to learn to read slowly and finish before responding.
Sarah has no grounds t… moreo be understood as a "character." She was only in the plot to leverage sympathy out of people, which is incredibly boring and she is an anti-personality.
No, I'm actually saying the exact opposite. People here need to learn to read slowly and finish before responding.
Sarah has no grounds t… moreo be understood as a "character." She was only in the plot to leverage sympathy out of people, which is incredibly boring and she is an anti-personality.
I think Sarah and Clementine are both products of their protectors. Carlos sheltered Sarah and kept the harsh realities of the world away fr… moreom her, while Lee taught Clementine to survive and be strong, but also be compassionate. That's why they're polar opposites. Kids are shaped by those closest to them.
You're gonna start a shit storm with this thread, but I personally agree with you. I never liked Sarah and never saw the appeal in her. IMO she was just a nuisance to the group.
> She was a nuisance to the group
Guys, stop considering Sarah danger to the group!!!!!!!!! NO ONE IS SAFE FOREVER!! THE SURVIVORS ARE ALWAYS IN DANGER EVEN WITHOUT HER!!!!
Because if people can like characters like Larry, Lilly, Kenny, and Jane, you can expect people to like an innocent young girl. Even if she screws up and never has time to make up for it. Kinda like Ben, huh?
That's based on your choices though. People always complain all the time about how they never can pick the choices they want. Like, how people complain about not being able to leave AJ behind, that would be against what Clem said in season 1 as well. NPC's are different from playable characters, that's what the difference is between season 1 Clem and season 2 Clem.
She was only in the plot to leverage sympathy out of people
Personally i believe they wrote her that way to justify Jane's rational.… more Its funny how Clementine can have such a reversal of a moral compass.
"we don't leave friends behind." S1 Clem
"Bye Sarah." Left behind S2 Clem.
My take is most people will jump on someone who is developed into being innocent and defenceless.
Sarah many people feel has a disability a… morend because she was hidden from what the world was by her father, it gives her freedom todo wrong and not pay a price for it.
I think also the way telltale made her in amid the ruins to be hopeless and pretty much inviting the player to kill her or let her die made people like her more.
Personally, I was never a fan. I felt she got away with too much and the harsh reality is that she was excess baggage who didn't want help even though people tried to help her. Despite that she was hidden from the world, she still should've asked for Clementine's help, even when the player can choose to be her friend.
Clementine was still younger then Sarah. it says Sarah is 15 and Clementine was only 8 when we first saw her. How do you think Clementine would've felt at only 8 with all she went through? The fact that she did allthose things at her age shouldn't be beyond Sarahs ability.
What is it with everyone and the autistic claim? My brother has autism and in no ways is him and Sarah have anything in common. My brother wouldn't even know what a walker is or know how dangerous it is.
Im not expecting her to be a Lee but come on, Duck almost got eaten by a walker and it didn't take him long to get better. I would've thought being attacked by multiple walkers would give you ptsd more then what Sarah went through but give her the benefit of the doubt.
Of course you did. You started saying stuff that I never said. Her and Clementine can be good friends and when something bad happens, you have either your family or friends to support you. tHE Fact that she didn't even want help shows she wasn't worth it. You telling me that if youwere in clementines place, you'd risk your life to help someone who doesn't want to be helped? A lot of people let Ben go because hedidn't want to be spared and are ok with it but Sarah it's a different story?
Lol, I think you're always going to scream like that if walkers are about to eat you. Unless Sarah enjoyed it.
I don't find nothing important about her character. She starts of as a character that could be good, but then turns into a helpless liability who is only popular by how she keeps on stuffing up. I said ages ago she reminded me of Ben but only difference was, Ben tried to make a mends for what he did. Sarah just gave up and didn't want any help. Why would she warn the group of incoming walkers if she was really in shock? That doesn't make sense.
You've completely missed the point of both Sarah's character and my post. She's not supposed to be anywhere nearly as capable as Clementine,… more that was the point. Sarah had issues, and no, I'm not just referring to her PTSD (which TellTale confirmed she had). She had pretty bad anxiety and could've been autistic. You really expect someone like that to be brave and confident? Look up catatonia, I mean it.
Stop jumping to conclusions, I didn't accuse you of saying any of those things, I just wanted to put them out there because they needed to be said. Sarah was a nervous reck who relied heavily on her father, so sorry, but I can't exactly blame her for not having complete faith in anyone but him.
"She doesn't want to be helped"? Don't be ridiculous, of course she did. If that were true, she wouldn't have asked about the gun or screamed the way she did before getting eaten. She was tired of being kept in the dark. If you lie to her about whe… [view original content]
Ok, so if Sarah did actually pick all the berries, you're telling me he'd kill Reggie regardless? I think not.
Didnd't Clementine get hit in the back of the head by a gun? She seemed to function properly. Carlos did say sorry to her but of course whenever something small happens, she has to go all state of shock mode again.
If she has anything wrong with her, it's no way near Autistic. She most likely has anxiety or something like that. But other characters have had bad experiences yet seem to get better at it but because telltale tried to make Sarah look as weak as they could. Naturally, people are going to stick up for her. Always support for the little guy.
Reggie's death was not Sarah's fault at all, that's all on Carver. According to his men, Carver was looking for an excuse to kill Reggie off… more his own accord because of him aiding the Cabin Group's escape beforehand, and the 'no berries picked today' was simply a half-assed excuse to get rid of him.
Not only that, Sarah's inability to pick berries out of stress and shock over being imprisoned by a tyrannical man and being assaulted by her dad (though not of his own free will) was all Carver's fault in the first place. He kidnaps her and makes her dad hit her, thus why she couldn't function properly for the rest of the day.
And it was indeed confirmed by Telltale in an article that Sarah suffers from PTSD. What kind, how strong, and how it can be triggered is never thoroughly explained in the story, but she does indeed have some form of anxiety disorder as shown throughout the story.
I take dianabol, I don't need no chill pill.
The point is that Duck coped a lot of shit because he was clumsy, like Ben, but Sarah is ok, part is to do with that shes female but also because it was made that way that she was hopeless. So you're saying had Sarah done the berry task right, Reggie would've still been killed? Even if you had anxiety, how is picking berries so hard?
Im not saying you have to be a perfect student,im saying that when you're in a ZA. You can't afford to be a ittle girl or boy. I agree that she was sheltered but she didn't want any help. She just wanted to be in her own shell but you can't do that. You need to learn to adapt and become stronger. Sarah had people trying to help her but she shut them out and that's what caused her first death in the game, not wanting to listen and survive. The game seems to focus more on making her appear weak and a mess up, like Ben and Duck but Duck gets bitten by his mum falling and Ben actually tries to make a mends, Sarah never does.And like I said, you can try to persuade her but she doesn't want to and that's how her character was built. They could've built her to listen but they didn't.
Haha, im not saying she has a split evil mind. It wouldn't make sense that in one situation, shes fine to signal danger, but then freezes when danger is coming to her.
Maybe I am wrong. I never said im right, this just what I see in the game speaking. But the whole autistic claim I know is bullshit that was made up to try and give her some disability. Maybe if people searched what autism is. Then they'dunderstand what it is.
Oh boy, darling. Take a chilll pillll.
Didn't people get angry because Duck cost Shawn his life? But when Sarah almost does it, or did… more with Reggie, it's ok? Isn't that being a hypocrite?
Maybe some people thought that way, but not me. Duck was a dumb kid (Kenny said as much); there's no denying that. Still, he can't be held responsible for his actions because, yeah, he's a kid, and was naive just as Sarah was quite naive. And how can you blame Reggie's death on Sarah? Who on earth could've predicted that Carver would throw Reggie off the roof or outright kill him because of a tiny handful of blueberries?
I was meaning when he said you have to consider anyone a living thing. Doesn't matter what age, sex, height, weight etc. If you treat them like little girls, they'll die little girls.
Yeah, I agree with what he said there. But you can't follow that 100%. People are still different, and people need to be treated dif… [view original content]
The people who aren't thinking are the ones who want to save everyone. In a world like this, what determines whether or not you survive is how smart you are. Your morals will just get in the way, and anything that gets in the way is not smart. Risking your life to save someone who will just continue to shut down and put others at risk isn't a smart thing, hence don't fucking do it.
it says Sarah is 15 and Clementine was only 8 when we first saw her
Which should be a planet-sized clue on how they function completely differently and thus cannot be compared, but apparently it went flying over your head.
My brother has autism and in no ways is him and Sarah have anything in common.
You do realize autism affects people in different ways and they function in different ways, right? I would think if you really do have a relative with a certain condition, you'd want to research it first before using them as an argument.
Of course you did. You started saying stuff that I never said.
No, they said things they believe to be true which were consistent with the arguments they were making, and you decided to read an attack into those statements and whine about it. Protip: If you read offense into something someone says, and then they specifically make it clear they were not trying to offend you and explain why they said it, it's a good idea to let it go, and not press the issue as if you have a point. It just makes you look childish.
A lot of people let Ben go because hedidn't want to be spared and are ok with it but Sarah it's a different story?
Yes, it's a different story. Ben specifically asked to be let go, was willing to die, and was in a clear state of mind. Sarah never made a proclamation of wanting to be left behind to die, and was very obviously not in a clear state of mind.
Note that I am NOT saying one is "right" and the other is "wrong". Hell, one of the problems I had with the Sarah death is that letting Ben die has characters specifically take issue with your decision (Clementine) and even flat out call it wrong (Vernon), and the fact that you are asked to make this choice in a destroyed society where the entire action of cutting people loose for being "useless" was frowned upon by the characters and the game, so whether you liked it or not the game was judging your decisions in some way, while nobody did that for Sarah and the game itself didn't even seem to give a fuck the second time around.
I'm simply pointing out that yes, people can read into both scenes differently based on their context.
I think you're always going to scream like that if walkers are about to eat you
Someone who doesn't want help isn't going to yell "Help me", which Sarah most certainly did in her second death scene. I assume you're referring to her first death scene, but you can't look at character actions in a vacuum. It's like saying that Ben never actually tried to make amends for what he did and just gave up because he asked to die, even though later he says he wants to make amends for what he did, which you yourself referred to. Sarah yelled for help. She wanted help. End of discussion.
Clementine was still younger then Sarah. it says Sarah is 15 and Clementine was only 8 when we first saw her. How do you think Clementine wo… moreuld've felt at only 8 with all she went through? The fact that she did allthose things at her age shouldn't be beyond Sarahs ability.
What is it with everyone and the autistic claim? My brother has autism and in no ways is him and Sarah have anything in common. My brother wouldn't even know what a walker is or know how dangerous it is.
Im not expecting her to be a Lee but come on, Duck almost got eaten by a walker and it didn't take him long to get better. I would've thought being attacked by multiple walkers would give you ptsd more then what Sarah went through but give her the benefit of the doubt.
Of course you did. You started saying stuff that I never said. Her and Clementine can be good friends and when something bad happens, you have either your family or friends to support you. tHE Fact that… [view original content]
That's one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. Yes, the kindly, gentle amputee was going to survive against the psychopath with no physical disability, imposing physical strength, and that was already looking for an excuse to kill him. And if you meant that Reggie showing strength might have led to Carver sparing him, then I direct you to when Kenny stood up to Carver and got his face beaten in, and Carver only stopped because something was going on elsewhere that got his attention. Carver zeroed in on Reggie for the dumbest possible reason, and one that he had no direct control over. He was going to kill him no matter what. Reggie standing up for himself would have only resulted in more violence.
Reggie's death was not Sarah's fault at all, that's all on Carver.
Reggie could of fought back, it probably would have saved his lif… moree, He should have tried to fight, instead he cowardly begged for his life to Carver. IMO i think that probably infuriated him even more, because cowardice, crying, all that is a sign of weakness, make him even more mad, justifying his response into throwing reggie off the roof.
The last thing you want to do in prison is cry.
For Sarah picking all the berries? No. For any other reason he could find? Absolutely. Carver had no reason to pin that on Reggie, but he did. He very obviously wanted him dead and was looking for a reason. The fact that Tavia and that other dude I don't remember have a discussion on that matter is meant to show that not even Carver's people believe his bullshit. "I don't think he was going to let him back in..."
Didnd't Clementine get hit in the back of the head by a gun? She seemed to function properly.
Do you just not understand how human beings work? Do you not realize how having a certain condition means you won't react to something the exact same way as somebody else? I think that's the problem here. You're either misinformed or not informed at all on human behavior.
Ok, so if Sarah did actually pick all the berries, you're telling me he'd kill Reggie regardless? I think not.
Didnd't Clementine get hit i… moren the back of the head by a gun? She seemed to function properly. Carlos did say sorry to her but of course whenever something small happens, she has to go all state of shock mode again.
If she has anything wrong with her, it's no way near Autistic. She most likely has anxiety or something like that. But other characters have had bad experiences yet seem to get better at it but because telltale tried to make Sarah look as weak as they could. Naturally, people are going to stick up for her. Always support for the little guy.
No, it should mean Sarah should be able to cop better. Unless an 8 year old is more mature then a 15 year old.
Oh really? I've had an autistic brother for 20 years and I think there's only one? Gee, what was I thinking. Seriousness, whatever case of autism someone has, Sarah is in no way the same. Anyone who thinks she has any autistic features or emotions should really educate themselves on what autism is.
Right so saying that I disregard her life when I never said that isn't childish? Heres a pro tip for you. If you don't agree with someones comments. Don't disagree with things they say that are actually true just because you don't agree with what they're saying.
Sarah sitting there with multiple pleads of getting up and getting out of there isn't an indication that she doesn't want to be help? Is that all that you have to say? If she didn't want to die, she would've gotten up when pleaded to. That's what I said, that they made Sarah out to be worthless because it seemed like they'd expect people to let her die in the first death. Her 2nd death and Nicks death are both pathetic.
LOl, Ben was impaled by a pole and he still was pleading for Kenny not to let them get me. Im pretty sure Bens situation is more difficult then Sarahs. AND THE FUNNY thing was that him falling of the balcony wasn't his fault.
My quote you highlited has nothing to do with your whole comment so that was a bit pointless on your part.
it says Sarah is 15 and Clementine was only 8 when we first saw her
Which should be a planet-sized clue on how they function complet… moreely differently and thus cannot be compared, but apparently it went flying over your head.
My brother has autism and in no ways is him and Sarah have anything in common.
You do realize autism affects people in different ways and they function in different ways, right? I would think if you really do have a relative with a certain condition, you'd want to research it first before using them as an argument.
Of course you did. You started saying stuff that I never said.
No, they said things they believe to be true which were consistent with the arguments they were making, and you decided to read an attack into those statements and whine about it. Protip: If you read offense into something someone says, and then they specifically make it clear they were not trying to offend you and … [view original content]
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Agreed. Carlos wasn't so bad; he was just more blind than others. Not to mention, apart from just Sarah being sheltered, I think Carlos himself (just like the entire Cabin Group, really) seemed to be more sheltered than other survivors, and hence Sarah was doubly-sheltered. They had been living in the relative safety of Carver's camp before they first escaped, and then they lost Nick's mom because they didn't think to restrain that unnamed bitten girl they'd taken in once said girl had died. I mean really, who thinks that a cabin in the middle of the woods with no fence or walls or anything is safe, and safe from a madman looking for you? But I'm getting off-topic.
I mean, even in the TV show in the beginning, Lori (and even Rick at first) don't think it's a good idea for Carl to learn how to shoot, because they were afraid he wasn't mature enough to use it. And I'll be honest--in today's world, I'd be very scared if I ever saw a kid walking around with a gun, because frankly, I don't trust kids I don't know with real guns; I just think they'd be irresponsible with them and could shoot someone accidentally. The ZA's a different story, because kids have to be able to defend themselves, and most kids would hopefully understand the seriousness of the situation. Every parent in the ZA will have to go through that confrontation I believe--wanting to protect their kid from the atrocities of the world, and then coming to realize their kids have to defend themselves, and trusting their kids that they'll be responsible with dangerous weapons. It's just that Carlos hadn't come to that yet.
I find lisa simpson annoying , because i dated girls like her. They think they're smarter than everyone.
I don't know, maybe something happened with her mother in the past. Either way, it makes me cringe so hard when I see people go "but season 1 Clementine could do more than Sarah and she was only 8!!1" No shit, because Clementine wasn't sheltered and had the knowledge Lee gave her. It never ceases to amaze me how people will look for any reason to hate Sarah. Liability or not, she wasn't viewed as less worthy than anyone else in my eyes.
Reggie's death was not Sarah's fault at all, that's all on Carver. According to his men, Carver was looking for an excuse to kill Reggie off his own accord because of him aiding the Cabin Group's escape beforehand, and the 'no berries picked today' was simply a half-assed excuse to get rid of him.
Not only that, Sarah's inability to pick berries out of stress and shock over being imprisoned by a tyrannical man and being assaulted by her dad (though not of his own free will) was all Carver's fault in the first place. He kidnaps her and makes her dad hit her, thus why she couldn't function properly for the rest of the day.
And it was indeed confirmed by Telltale in an article that Sarah suffers from PTSD. What kind, how strong, and how it can be triggered is never thoroughly explained in the story, but she does indeed have some form of anxiety disorder as shown throughout the story.
What ever happened to Clementine saying " We don't leave friends behind. Maybe in Clementine's mind Sarah wasn't a "friend." Season two Clementine was hard to read emotionally.
Yeah the group was probably at Carver's camp for quite a bit and just didn't have the necessary knowledge or fortitude about the ZA to split from Carver's people without handling it properly, that and it was probably a rushed escape since they had to leave poor Reggie behind. I have to assume either Sarah knew of Carver and what he was capable of, but never met him or has met him, but panicked/froze up when he visited the cabin. The rest of the cabin group were essentially a bunch of good/regular civilians that were scared idiots. Hell it could have been Pete who actually ran this group, but since his death we start to see the downfall of this group. Although that said when Pete was alive, we hear nothing but the dumb decisions that you mentioned being made before Clem showed up.
Reggie could of fought back, it probably would have saved his life, He should have tried to fight, instead he cowardly begged for his life to Carver. IMO i think that probably infuriated him even more, because cowardice, crying, all that is a sign of weakness, make him even more mad, justifying his response into throwing reggie off the roof.
The last thing you want to do in prison is cry.
Oh boy, darling. Take a chilll pillll.
Maybe some people thought that way, but not me. Duck was a dumb kid (Kenny said as much); there's no denying that. Still, he can't be held responsible for his actions because, yeah, he's a kid, and was naive just as Sarah was quite naive. And how can you blame Reggie's death on Sarah? Who on earth could've predicted that Carver would throw Reggie off the roof or outright kill him because of a tiny handful of blueberries?
Yeah, I agree with what he said there. But you can't follow that 100%. People are still different, and people need to be treated differently; you can't treat them all the exact same way and expect the exact same results. It's the same thing with the public education system in the U.S.--you can't expect all students to get A's with the same amount of teacher support when one student has two parents and three meals a day and another student has one parent, one meal a day, and is mourning her innocent best friend she lost a few months ago in the cross-fire from local neighborhood violence. You can't expect me to treat all young girls like Sarah or season-1-Clem or Sofia from the show/comics the same as I'd treat a man like Larry or Kenny or Lee, or that I'd treat them all the same as each other either. There's nuances you've got to account for, and people are just plain not going to react the same way if I hand them all a gun and say, "Ok guys, kill some walkers." Like I already said before, if I could've prepared Sarah for the ZA as much as I'd have wanted, and if I could've dealt her some hard truths and helped her digest them a bit better and given her some desperately needed support then I would have, but the game just plain doesn't let you.
Or maybe, y'know, she could've been trying to fight her PTSD and was trying to help out the group how she could? Geez you make her sound like a criminal mastermind. Which she clearly was not.
Lol maybe...or you know. You could be wrong too. Lol what a concept, right? XD
Sarah is what Clementine would have been if Lee/Christa/Chuck never exposed her to the harsh realities of the zombie apocalypse. Heck, Sarah is essentially a more innocent version of Season 1 Clementine. From the moment you meet her, she's child-like, yet you can see a quiet caring nature about her when she offers to help Clementine find supplies for bandaging. As Clementine talks to her more, you realize how deeply the poor girls been sheltered when she doesn't even realize just how bad it is out there. Because of this, I wanted to help her. I wanted Clementine to get close to her and help her survive, because they were the only kids of the group and I saw what Clementine could have been.
The worst part about her character arc is after a certain point, she's never given a chance. After episode 2, Sarah is disregarded as someone who wants to and can potentially change and grow, and is portrayed as an extremely helpless victim for the rest of her time on screen. I don't get why when Sarah ran off in the end of Ep. 3, most people were like "UGH! Sarah you idiot!" when it was a very natural thing to happen. I don't get why when she's paralyzed with fear in the trailer, the only way to get her out is to freaking slap her, and after that I can't even comfort her, as if Clementine's friendship with her meant nothing. I guess Sarah meant nothing in the end to some, which I think is sad, considering the similarities between her and Season 1 Clementine.
Because if people can like characters like Larry, Lilly, Kenny, and Jane, you can expect people to like an innocent young girl. Even if she screws up and never has time to make up for it. Kinda like Ben, huh?
Ben, in my eyes at least, did redeem himself.
I always felt that Sarah was meant to be like Ben yet different, but I never liked her as much as Ben.
Ben sorta did redeem himself i guess, but with Sarah's case, you can't do much. She's broken down after Carlos, so you can't blame her.
I never really liked her as a character, but i was glad Clementine could have a kid friend like Duck again.
You're gonna start a shit storm with this thread, but I personally agree with you. I never liked Sarah and never saw the appeal in her. IMO she was just a nuisance to the group.
I was sad when Ben died, but I kind of shrugged off when Sarah died. I feel like I got to know Ben really well, but Sarah's development was lacking. I was irritated when Sarah didn't even have a gun after Carlos died. What was the point of teaching her how to protect herself if she never got the chance to use it?
That's because in S1, you can actually talk the characters and get to know them. Lack of hubs = lack of character development and info.
Because she's a non-threatening personality. No interesting characteristics, no attributes to separate herself from others, no deep marks as a even relatively understandable person. But yet, that yields relatability to some people. People are more than content to have a character just be window dressing and serve no purpose other than to be a charmless sack of anemic pixels that do nothing but showcase the one thing they are known for In a vein attempt to leverage sympathy.
I couldn't stand Sarah, and I'm glad she's out of the story.
So you're saying that because you don't understand Sarah as a character, you assume that anyone who does is shallow for it?
That...makes no sense.
That's what I was thinking as well; but that's what made me not really care whether Sarah lived or died.
No, I'm actually saying the exact opposite. People here need to learn to read slowly and finish before responding.
Sarah has no grounds to be understood as a "character." She was only in the plot to leverage sympathy out of people, which is incredibly boring and she is an anti-personality.
I think you just became my favorite person on this forum.
I did read your post carefully and it does make the implication rather clear, whether you meant to or not:
It's fine to not understand why people like Sarah and appreciate her character, but to assume that we're being easily influenced into liking and sympathising with Sarah in spite of supposedly being a plot device than an actual character...that's basically calling us shallow for falling into the 'leverage sympathy out of people' trick.
Personally i believe they wrote her that way to justify Jane's rational. Its funny how Clementine can have such a reversal of a moral compass.
"we don't leave friends behind." S1 Clem
"Bye Sarah." Left behind S2 Clem.
Lee taught Clem because Chuck gave him the advice. He would have acted like Carlos but Chuck is the reason Clem is alive.
Guys, stop considering Sarah danger to the group!!!!!!!!! NO ONE IS SAFE FOREVER!! THE SURVIVORS ARE ALWAYS IN DANGER EVEN WITHOUT HER!!!!
I agree completely, but it's useless to try and change their minds.
I don't support people who don't think well.
Hey I agree with you new buddy!
Those four characters did much worse compared to Sarah lol, Sarah's results of her actions arent intentional, most of those four's are.
That's based on your choices though. People always complain all the time about how they never can pick the choices they want. Like, how people complain about not being able to leave AJ behind, that would be against what Clem said in season 1 as well. NPC's are different from playable characters, that's what the difference is between season 1 Clem and season 2 Clem.
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But in Lisa's case, considering the world around her, she's pretty fucking smart.
Clementine was still younger then Sarah. it says Sarah is 15 and Clementine was only 8 when we first saw her. How do you think Clementine would've felt at only 8 with all she went through? The fact that she did allthose things at her age shouldn't be beyond Sarahs ability.
What is it with everyone and the autistic claim? My brother has autism and in no ways is him and Sarah have anything in common. My brother wouldn't even know what a walker is or know how dangerous it is.
Im not expecting her to be a Lee but come on, Duck almost got eaten by a walker and it didn't take him long to get better. I would've thought being attacked by multiple walkers would give you ptsd more then what Sarah went through but give her the benefit of the doubt.
Of course you did. You started saying stuff that I never said. Her and Clementine can be good friends and when something bad happens, you have either your family or friends to support you. tHE Fact that she didn't even want help shows she wasn't worth it. You telling me that if youwere in clementines place, you'd risk your life to help someone who doesn't want to be helped? A lot of people let Ben go because hedidn't want to be spared and are ok with it but Sarah it's a different story?
Lol, I think you're always going to scream like that if walkers are about to eat you. Unless Sarah enjoyed it.
I don't find nothing important about her character. She starts of as a character that could be good, but then turns into a helpless liability who is only popular by how she keeps on stuffing up. I said ages ago she reminded me of Ben but only difference was, Ben tried to make a mends for what he did. Sarah just gave up and didn't want any help. Why would she warn the group of incoming walkers if she was really in shock? That doesn't make sense.
Ok, so if Sarah did actually pick all the berries, you're telling me he'd kill Reggie regardless? I think not.
Didnd't Clementine get hit in the back of the head by a gun? She seemed to function properly. Carlos did say sorry to her but of course whenever something small happens, she has to go all state of shock mode again.
If she has anything wrong with her, it's no way near Autistic. She most likely has anxiety or something like that. But other characters have had bad experiences yet seem to get better at it but because telltale tried to make Sarah look as weak as they could. Naturally, people are going to stick up for her. Always support for the little guy.
I take dianabol, I don't need no chill pill.
The point is that Duck coped a lot of shit because he was clumsy, like Ben, but Sarah is ok, part is to do with that shes female but also because it was made that way that she was hopeless. So you're saying had Sarah done the berry task right, Reggie would've still been killed? Even if you had anxiety, how is picking berries so hard?
Im not saying you have to be a perfect student,im saying that when you're in a ZA. You can't afford to be a ittle girl or boy. I agree that she was sheltered but she didn't want any help. She just wanted to be in her own shell but you can't do that. You need to learn to adapt and become stronger. Sarah had people trying to help her but she shut them out and that's what caused her first death in the game, not wanting to listen and survive. The game seems to focus more on making her appear weak and a mess up, like Ben and Duck but Duck gets bitten by his mum falling and Ben actually tries to make a mends, Sarah never does.And like I said, you can try to persuade her but she doesn't want to and that's how her character was built. They could've built her to listen but they didn't.
Haha, im not saying she has a split evil mind. It wouldn't make sense that in one situation, shes fine to signal danger, but then freezes when danger is coming to her.
Maybe I am wrong. I never said im right, this just what I see in the game speaking. But the whole autistic claim I know is bullshit that was made up to try and give her some disability. Maybe if people searched what autism is. Then they'dunderstand what it is.
The people who aren't thinking are the ones who want to save everyone. In a world like this, what determines whether or not you survive is how smart you are. Your morals will just get in the way, and anything that gets in the way is not smart. Risking your life to save someone who will just continue to shut down and put others at risk isn't a smart thing, hence don't fucking do it.
Which should be a planet-sized clue on how they function completely differently and thus cannot be compared, but apparently it went flying over your head.
You do realize autism affects people in different ways and they function in different ways, right? I would think if you really do have a relative with a certain condition, you'd want to research it first before using them as an argument.
No, they said things they believe to be true which were consistent with the arguments they were making, and you decided to read an attack into those statements and whine about it. Protip: If you read offense into something someone says, and then they specifically make it clear they were not trying to offend you and explain why they said it, it's a good idea to let it go, and not press the issue as if you have a point. It just makes you look childish.
Yes, it's a different story. Ben specifically asked to be let go, was willing to die, and was in a clear state of mind. Sarah never made a proclamation of wanting to be left behind to die, and was very obviously not in a clear state of mind.
Note that I am NOT saying one is "right" and the other is "wrong". Hell, one of the problems I had with the Sarah death is that letting Ben die has characters specifically take issue with your decision (Clementine) and even flat out call it wrong (Vernon), and the fact that you are asked to make this choice in a destroyed society where the entire action of cutting people loose for being "useless" was frowned upon by the characters and the game, so whether you liked it or not the game was judging your decisions in some way, while nobody did that for Sarah and the game itself didn't even seem to give a fuck the second time around.
I'm simply pointing out that yes, people can read into both scenes differently based on their context.
Someone who doesn't want help isn't going to yell "Help me", which Sarah most certainly did in her second death scene. I assume you're referring to her first death scene, but you can't look at character actions in a vacuum. It's like saying that Ben never actually tried to make amends for what he did and just gave up because he asked to die, even though later he says he wants to make amends for what he did, which you yourself referred to. Sarah yelled for help. She wanted help. End of discussion.
That's one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. Yes, the kindly, gentle amputee was going to survive against the psychopath with no physical disability, imposing physical strength, and that was already looking for an excuse to kill him. And if you meant that Reggie showing strength might have led to Carver sparing him, then I direct you to when Kenny stood up to Carver and got his face beaten in, and Carver only stopped because something was going on elsewhere that got his attention. Carver zeroed in on Reggie for the dumbest possible reason, and one that he had no direct control over. He was going to kill him no matter what. Reggie standing up for himself would have only resulted in more violence.
For Sarah picking all the berries? No. For any other reason he could find? Absolutely. Carver had no reason to pin that on Reggie, but he did. He very obviously wanted him dead and was looking for a reason. The fact that Tavia and that other dude I don't remember have a discussion on that matter is meant to show that not even Carver's people believe his bullshit. "I don't think he was going to let him back in..."
Do you just not understand how human beings work? Do you not realize how having a certain condition means you won't react to something the exact same way as somebody else? I think that's the problem here. You're either misinformed or not informed at all on human behavior.
Well well well, look whos coming crawling back.
What happened to AJ lee? just threw the towel in aye.
No, it should mean Sarah should be able to cop better. Unless an 8 year old is more mature then a 15 year old.
Oh really? I've had an autistic brother for 20 years and I think there's only one? Gee, what was I thinking. Seriousness, whatever case of autism someone has, Sarah is in no way the same. Anyone who thinks she has any autistic features or emotions should really educate themselves on what autism is.
Right so saying that I disregard her life when I never said that isn't childish? Heres a pro tip for you. If you don't agree with someones comments. Don't disagree with things they say that are actually true just because you don't agree with what they're saying.
Sarah sitting there with multiple pleads of getting up and getting out of there isn't an indication that she doesn't want to be help? Is that all that you have to say? If she didn't want to die, she would've gotten up when pleaded to. That's what I said, that they made Sarah out to be worthless because it seemed like they'd expect people to let her die in the first death. Her 2nd death and Nicks death are both pathetic.
LOl, Ben was impaled by a pole and he still was pleading for Kenny not to let them get me. Im pretty sure Bens situation is more difficult then Sarahs. AND THE FUNNY thing was that him falling of the balcony wasn't his fault.
My quote you highlited has nothing to do with your whole comment so that was a bit pointless on your part.