Well I looked at that situation as " I couldn't let Clementine become a killer to stop a killer from killing a then suspected baby killer.. … morewho has shot a guy in the toolbox and was also up for prematurely leaving a grieving girl to her doom on two occasions". So Jane was far from a saint and Even though TTG tried to paint Kenny as some sort of out of control rage villain. I feel Clem still had more history with Kenny and something closer to a friendship with him than Jane and therefore the true Clementine wouldn't have the heart to just shoot to kill Kenny, maybe she'd aim for a non fatal shot like nicking his shoulder or just fire the gun to catch the both of their attention or even just do nothing and cry as she did in my play-through. I believe Clem would be very slow to violence unless her own life was in jeopardy like with that bandit Winston at the beginning of the game.
In the end I felt Kenny revealed that he always had the best … [view original content]
I think him being the one who fixed the car is a fair reason for him to choose what to do with it though, without him the car wouldn't have even started
Watching kenny beat up and kill a woman was just to much for me I had to kill him I didn't like Jane and would of chose Kenny but the minute he beat up and killed a women he crossed the line for me I was gutted but I had to I just hated watching a strong fully grown man beating the crap out of Jane and killing her even if she was wrong .
I chose neither in the end when it was always kenny till that moment
I wish I could of shot him in a non-lethal spot to stop him but I couldn't
I think him being the one who fixed the car is a fair reason for him to choose what to do with it though, without him the car wouldn't have even started
It's that he doesn't want to fix a car just to go back to a hell they just escaped from. I'd personally feel offended if the idea of going back to howe's was brought up.
Watching kenny beat up and kill a woman was just to much for me I had to kill him I didn't like Jane and would of chose Kenny but the minute… more he beat up and killed a women he crossed the line for me I was gutted but I had to I just hated watching a strong fully grown man beating the crap out of Jane and killing her even if she was wrong .
I chose neither in the end when it was always kenny till that moment
I wish I could of shot him in a non-lethal spot to stop him but I couldn't
Be perfectly honest. If someone in S1 killed Clementine and provoked us. We as Lee would haunt him through every edge of the earth. Hell, there'd be no choice, Lee would do it automatically without player input and go batman all over the guy's ass.
Kenny might've been biased and crazy and stupid. But Jane was even more so and intentionally at that, provoking someone to kill you to get his friend to kill him, is crazier and worse than being the guy to fall for such provokes and kill. If she really didn't want to die, she would've told about AJ being fine if she wanted to stop the fight and for nobody to die. She literally brought to herself on a silver plate.
Now again this doesn't excuse kenny for falling for the provocation. However while kenny's impulsive acting is a character flaw. Jane's purposed planning and execution is out right ill intentions. Which is a lot worse than a character flaw.
Edit: Of course those who killed Jane without knowing of her ill-intentions at the time aren't as much to blame. I didn't shoot Kenny, but I got really close to doing so because I thought Jane was innocent and that it was an accident.
Edit2: And Lee's murder was also impulsive. As was Christa's. You really expect her to kill someone who says "ohshitIamsorry, i didn't mean to" and kenny not to kill someone who goes "oops, she died, and if you touch me I'll kill you" ?
True as in what Clementine would most likely do and be like that is within character. Judging from her morals and past in season 1 she can differ greatly in season 2. And if you believe that there is no true Clementine then that is fine. As for me there is.. For example in season 1 Clem says something along the lines of "we don't leave friends behind when discussing the fate of Ben with the group." Yet in season 2 she can willingly leave Sarah behind to die. Which contradicts her season 1 beliefs. So that doesn't sound like something the "true" Clem would do nor say. And I doubt she'd consider Sarah an enemy for no apparent reason.
Well she and the group decided to lure a huge horde of Walkers to Howe's Hardware Store so they could escape the captivity of Carver... and … morewe saw how Walkers overran the place while people were still in there, in a way she killed an entire community, she did do most of the work to make the escape and death of community members to happen after all.
yeah, but, there have to be more to it than that. Remember mike was still trying to prove him self to Clem, Also Bonnie. Why suddenly throw that away over a stranger.
The only way that we can get a true answer to way mike helped arvo is that his character is explored more. Maybe the gun shot wound on his ear tells a story about how he tried to save his sister from a stray bullet, maybe he lost his first group like his, maybe his just full of shit like bonnie. I dont know.
Or perhaps Mike just likes helping people, you know, like how it was consistently implied throughout episodes 3 and 4? Allot of people would… more find it unsettling to harm an infant, child or teenager during the apocalypse and we didn't exactly know Mike that well either, we can only make assumptions.
I think him being the one who fixed the car is a fair reason for him to choose what to do with it though, without him the car wouldn't have even started
As Milton states in the series, "Every tool box needs a hammer". I preferred Kenny, I disliked Jane intensely, plus at the time I thought Jane had left AJ to the walkers to die. Kenny thus, in my mind, was killing a killer, as Christa did with Michelle and Kenny did with Carver.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I absolutely take issue with the way that whole scene played out, as Mike, Arvo and maybe Bonnie took off, with all our food. If there was an option to shoot i would have killed them ALL.
I gave every one of them the benefit of the doubt, and then they SHOT ME! i understand that they felt that leaving in the night was the best option for them, with the smallest chance of confrontation. I clearly understand the sad fact of Kenny's effect on the mental and physical wellbeing of the group. I even applaud them for wanting to leave, and would do so for them, for Actually leaving - If it wasn't for the fact they knowingly left two children behind, to starve to death. And then shot one, when she discovered their treacherous asses stealing.
If they would have taken only ONE of the bags and left... I wouldn't have cared one whit. Kenny would have lost his effing mind, but i would have said screw em. Karma will take care of them.
None of which, BTW, changes the fact that Kenny is a colossal, Grade A, Asshole. Who doesn't care one bit about the opinions of anyone in his group, doesn't respect their views, or their persons.
You are right, but people didn't really leave in a fair way when the conflict happened. After Luke no one dared standing up for their opinio… moren so instead they sneak off an doom the others. No matter if you agree with Kenny or not that's not right. It was pretty clear Mike had no interest in anything but his own skin in the end.
I think it's absurd to tell someone that they couldn't possibly know how they themselves might feel about something, while simultaneously stating that You know how they can't possibly feel or think about the same.
I think it's absurd to claim you'd know how you would feel in that situation.
Clementine however is another thing. She already lived thro… moreugh the entire apocalypse with people who had killed others, Lee and Christa.
Kenny killing Jane was not really a deal breaker for me. She had an agenda that jeapodized the group so I don't consider her loss a big one.
Right, cuz our true selves are always our 8yr old Idyllic selves, forever and ever. No one ever changes from the experiences they've had. Especially not impressionable young girls, who are literally On Their Own.
The fact that Ssn2 Clem CAN willingly leave Sarah at the trailer, is proof that her experiences HAVE changed her.
There is no true, innocent Clem. There's only the Survivor.
True as in what Clementine would most likely do and be like that is within character. Judging from her morals and past in season 1 she can d… moreiffer greatly in season 2. And if you believe that there is no true Clementine then that is fine. As for me there is.. For example in season 1 Clem says something along the lines of "we don't leave friends behind when discussing the fate of Ben with the group." Yet in season 2 she can willingly leave Sarah behind to die. Which contradicts her season 1 beliefs. So that doesn't sound like something the "true" Clem would do nor say. And I doubt she'd consider Sarah an enemy for no apparent reason.
The fact that Clem can leave Sarah proves nothing more than you as the player having the illusion of choice in the game, as with all other Telltale games. It's pretty obvious that Clementine's experiences have effected her I'd say at the very beginning of the game long before it even comes to saving Sarah or not. And It's more so Clem giving up on her too early as a result of giving in to the peer pressure influence, coming from Jane constantly yelling in her ear about leaving a grieving girl who just lost her dad like an hour ago to die in order to save her own skin (which really sounds like an asshole/cowardly move than a survivor move).
However If Clementine disobeys/ignores Jane the first time and tries everything including slapping a bit of sense into Sarah... it actually saves her life.. and as the clever survivor she is, she once again dug into that season 1 code of ethics she had of " not leaving friends behind" and as a result she inadvertently ends up rescuing Sarah and saving her life because of it, something that Luke couldn't do and Jane wouldn't do and Lee would do. Thus to me that decision is more "in character" to Clementine's personality and what she is reasonably like.
Its similar to Lee dropping or pulling up Ben at the bell tower in the first game.
Some choices simply feel a whole lot more in character than others.
But to give the player more variety and excitement in the story, there are always the renegade options next to the paragon options.
Right, cuz our true selves are always our 8yr old Idyllic selves, forever and ever. No one ever changes from the experiences they've had. E… morespecially not impressionable young girls, who are literally On Their Own.
The fact that Ssn2 Clem CAN willingly leave Sarah at the trailer, is proof that her experiences HAVE changed her.
There is no true, innocent Clem. There's only the Survivor.
Full of shit like Bonnie? We don't exactly know her story well either, if there's a reason for Mike wanting to leave the group to die, there's gotta be a reason for Bonnie too, there's a reason if she hates Clementine but it's almost illogical that she leaves just cause if she's nice to Clementine.
yeah, but, there have to be more to it than that. Remember mike was still trying to prove him self to Clem, Also Bonnie. Why suddenly throw … morethat away over a stranger.
The only way that we can get a true answer to way mike helped arvo is that his character is explored more. Maybe the gun shot wound on his ear tells a story about how he tried to save his sister from a stray bullet, maybe he lost his first group like his, maybe his just full of shit like bonnie. I dont know.
I'm sure theyre going to explain the motives in depth in season 3. Remember, we dont know mike as much as we know bonnie, who from 400 days is known to back stab those who help her. She is a junk. But Mike, he still has alot of room of development to grow. Mike character motives at this point aren't really established yet. We can only guess why he did for now.
Full of shit like Bonnie? We don't exactly know her story well either, if there's a reason for Mike wanting to leave the group to die, there… more's gotta be a reason for Bonnie too, there's a reason if she hates Clementine but it's almost illogical that she leaves just cause if she's nice to Clementine.
I don't remember any indication of Bonnie backstabbing anyone in 400 Days, just because she has history of being a Junkie doesn't automatically make her a villain. Bonnie also has allot of room for development, no one knows her past.
I'm sure theyre going to explain the motives in depth in season 3. Remember, we dont know mike as much as we know bonnie, who from 400 days … moreis known to back stab those who help her. She is a junk. But Mike, he still has alot of room of development to grow. Mike character motives at this point aren't really established yet. We can only guess why he did for now.
She was definately flirting and maybe more with Leland behind his wifes back. I'd say that home-wrecking definitely counts as backstabbing. Especially when it seems they went out of their way to help her get clean and take care of her.
I don't remember any indication of Bonnie backstabbing anyone in 400 Days, just because she has history of being a Junkie doesn't automatically make her a villain. Bonnie also has allot of room for development, no one knows her past.
That's not completely justifiable, one could say it was flirting, another could say it was being friendly, it all depends on perspective and what you see as flirting or being friendly. Also, if it was flirting, Bonnie sure wasn't the only one doing it, and by the dialogue choices given, you can tell she doesn't exactly think they are flirting. Sure, they may have rescued Bonnie, but Dee went behind Leland's back to steal something for him, there doesn't seem to have been trust in Dee and Leland's 'relationship'. Also, am I the only who noticed that whenever Bonnie tries to be nice to Dee, Leland ends up angering Dee?
She was definately flirting and maybe more with Leland behind his wifes back. I'd say that home-wrecking definitely counts as backstabbing. Especially when it seems they went out of their way to help her get clean and take care of her.
Yet Howe's is the only place they know can be secure, I wouldn't blame some of them for not wanting to go back to Howe's if their reason was so that they could ignore the fact that they caused the deaths of innocent lives trying to escape when their best shot at survival was in that community.
It's that he doesn't want to fix a car just to go back to a hell they just escaped from. I'd personally feel offended if the idea of going back to howe's was brought up.
In this life now you kill or you die
Or you die and you kill
You kill to survive in a ZA world, i think killing people would be classed as normal to be fair so in response to your thread, i think if you were living in a ruined world, you could probably live with someone who's killed someone. Disappointed that you shot Kenny though. His ending with Clem at Wellington is a million times better than Jane's ending in my opinion
I don't remember any indication of Bonnie backstabbing anyone in 400 Days, just because she has history of being a Junkie doesn't automatically make her a villain. Bonnie also has allot of room for development, no one knows her past.
The option to leave Leland behind is completely controlled by the player, so it's completely controversial in that matter. As for 'hinting' - do people think that certain interactions automatically mean two people have some kind of romantic relationship? It may have hinted it, but hinting isn't completely justifiable, it's more so opinionated.
Be perfectly honest. If someone in S1 killed Clementine and provoked us. We as Lee would haunt him through every edge of the earth. Hell, th… moreere'd be no choice, Lee would do it automatically without player input and go batman all over the guy's ass.
Kenny might've been biased and crazy and stupid. But Jane was even more so and intentionally at that, provoking someone to kill you to get his friend to kill him, is crazier and worse than being the guy to fall for such provokes and kill. If she really didn't want to die, she would've told about AJ being fine if she wanted to stop the fight and for nobody to die. She literally brought to herself on a silver plate.
Now again this doesn't excuse kenny for falling for the provocation. However while kenny's impulsive acting is a character flaw. Jane's purposed planning and execution is out right ill intentions. Which is a lot worse than a character flaw.
Edit: Of course those who killed Jane w… [view original content]
I've already lived with a killer. My father once stomped on a spider, squishing it.
But as for someone whose killed another human, it depends on the circumstance. If it was a Kenny like ravenous psycho who is comfortable enough to cave in a mans head, bludgeoning it to skull and brain matter in front of a child then no. That'd rub me the wrong way, but if it was a Clementine like noble attempt to remove a dangerous individual from shoving a knife in an innocent woman's chest cause of a hunch, and she killed him... and was Clementine, then yes. I could easily live with someone like that.
Well I don't mind living someone who's killed in TWD game, but depending on the context of how they were killed matters to me.
Like Kenny, he crushed Larry's skull and I completely disagreed with his actions on that. Or when he killed Carver, it was in the most brutal fashion possible. If Kenny would have just shot him in the face I would be fine with that, but instead he beat his face in. To me, that makes him a disgusting human being for even doing that.
In this life now you kill or you die
Or you die and you kill
You kill to survive in a ZA world, i think killing people would be classed… more as normal to be fair so in response to your thread, i think if you were living in a ruined world, you could probably live with someone who's killed someone. Disappointed that you shot Kenny though. His ending with Clem at Wellington is a million times better than Jane's ending in my opinion
Well I don't mind living someone who's killed in TWD game, but depending on the context of how they were killed matters to me.
Like Kenn… morey, he crushed Larry's skull and I completely disagreed with his actions on that. Or when he killed Carver, it was in the most brutal fashion possible. If Kenny would have just shot him in the face I would be fine with that, but instead he beat his face in. To me, that makes him a disgusting human being for even doing that.
Comments
The 'true' Clementine? There is no 'true' Clementine.
I think him being the one who fixed the car is a fair reason for him to choose what to do with it though, without him the car wouldn't have even started
Watching kenny beat up and kill a woman was just to much for me I had to kill him I didn't like Jane and would of chose Kenny but the minute he beat up and killed a women he crossed the line for me I was gutted but I had to I just hated watching a strong fully grown man beating the crap out of Jane and killing her even if she was wrong .
I chose neither in the end when it was always kenny till that moment
I wish I could of shot him in a non-lethal spot to stop him but I couldn't
But that isn't how the group should operate, everyone should have a say, not just one guy who constantly insists and says no one else is right.
It's that he doesn't want to fix a car just to go back to a hell they just escaped from. I'd personally feel offended if the idea of going back to howe's was brought up.
awesome image brother man
Be perfectly honest. If someone in S1 killed Clementine and provoked us. We as Lee would haunt him through every edge of the earth. Hell, there'd be no choice, Lee would do it automatically without player input and go batman all over the guy's ass.
Kenny might've been biased and crazy and stupid. But Jane was even more so and intentionally at that, provoking someone to kill you to get his friend to kill him, is crazier and worse than being the guy to fall for such provokes and kill. If she really didn't want to die, she would've told about AJ being fine if she wanted to stop the fight and for nobody to die. She literally brought to herself on a silver plate.
Now again this doesn't excuse kenny for falling for the provocation. However while kenny's impulsive acting is a character flaw. Jane's purposed planning and execution is out right ill intentions. Which is a lot worse than a character flaw.
Edit: Of course those who killed Jane without knowing of her ill-intentions at the time aren't as much to blame. I didn't shoot Kenny, but I got really close to doing so because I thought Jane was innocent and that it was an accident.
Edit2: And Lee's murder was also impulsive. As was Christa's. You really expect her to kill someone who says "ohshitIamsorry, i didn't mean to" and kenny not to kill someone who goes "oops, she died, and if you touch me I'll kill you" ?
True as in what Clementine would most likely do and be like that is within character. Judging from her morals and past in season 1 she can differ greatly in season 2. And if you believe that there is no true Clementine then that is fine. As for me there is.. For example in season 1 Clem says something along the lines of "we don't leave friends behind when discussing the fate of Ben with the group." Yet in season 2 she can willingly leave Sarah behind to die. Which contradicts her season 1 beliefs. So that doesn't sound like something the "true" Clem would do nor say. And I doubt she'd consider Sarah an enemy for no apparent reason.
I know right. It's straight how Clem and the group didn't realize the innocent people that they were killing with the herd plan.
yeah, but, there have to be more to it than that. Remember mike was still trying to prove him self to Clem, Also Bonnie. Why suddenly throw that away over a stranger.
The only way that we can get a true answer to way mike helped arvo is that his character is explored more. Maybe the gun shot wound on his ear tells a story about how he tried to save his sister from a stray bullet, maybe he lost his first group like his, maybe his just full of shit like bonnie. I dont know.
"Killers" that's a little strong. more like self defense
Should Mark decide who of the group gets food when, because he provided the group with most of its food?
No way would I decide that's to much pressure
sry
I think it would be fair, since they might not have lived without him, he could have denied them it
Cruel Fact for Today: If you kill someone in self defence, the body is just as dead as if it would be if you killed with cold blood.
As Milton states in the series, "Every tool box needs a hammer". I preferred Kenny, I disliked Jane intensely, plus at the time I thought Jane had left AJ to the walkers to die. Kenny thus, in my mind, was killing a killer, as Christa did with Michelle and Kenny did with Carver.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I absolutely take issue with the way that whole scene played out, as Mike, Arvo and maybe Bonnie took off, with all our food. If there was an option to shoot i would have killed them ALL.
I gave every one of them the benefit of the doubt, and then they SHOT ME! i understand that they felt that leaving in the night was the best option for them, with the smallest chance of confrontation. I clearly understand the sad fact of Kenny's effect on the mental and physical wellbeing of the group. I even applaud them for wanting to leave, and would do so for them, for Actually leaving - If it wasn't for the fact they knowingly left two children behind, to starve to death. And then shot one, when she discovered their treacherous asses stealing.
If they would have taken only ONE of the bags and left... I wouldn't have cared one whit. Kenny would have lost his effing mind, but i would have said screw em. Karma will take care of them.
None of which, BTW, changes the fact that Kenny is a colossal, Grade A, Asshole. Who doesn't care one bit about the opinions of anyone in his group, doesn't respect their views, or their persons.
I think it's absurd to tell someone that they couldn't possibly know how they themselves might feel about something, while simultaneously stating that You know how they can't possibly feel or think about the same.
Holy Hypocrite Batman!
Doesn't make you a murderer though. Just Lucky.
Right, cuz our true selves are always our 8yr old Idyllic selves, forever and ever. No one ever changes from the experiences they've had. Especially not impressionable young girls, who are literally On Their Own.
The fact that Ssn2 Clem CAN willingly leave Sarah at the trailer, is proof that her experiences HAVE changed her.
There is no true, innocent Clem. There's only the Survivor.
The fact that Clem can leave Sarah proves nothing more than you as the player having the illusion of choice in the game, as with all other Telltale games. It's pretty obvious that Clementine's experiences have effected her I'd say at the very beginning of the game long before it even comes to saving Sarah or not. And It's more so Clem giving up on her too early as a result of giving in to the peer pressure influence, coming from Jane constantly yelling in her ear about leaving a grieving girl who just lost her dad like an hour ago to die in order to save her own skin (which really sounds like an asshole/cowardly move than a survivor move).
However If Clementine disobeys/ignores Jane the first time and tries everything including slapping a bit of sense into Sarah... it actually saves her life.. and as the clever survivor she is, she once again dug into that season 1 code of ethics she had of " not leaving friends behind" and as a result she inadvertently ends up rescuing Sarah and saving her life because of it, something that Luke couldn't do and Jane wouldn't do and Lee would do. Thus to me that decision is more "in character" to Clementine's personality and what she is reasonably like.
Its similar to Lee dropping or pulling up Ben at the bell tower in the first game.
Some choices simply feel a whole lot more in character than others.
But to give the player more variety and excitement in the story, there are always the renegade options next to the paragon options.
There could've been babies there since they did have baby formula.
Full of shit like Bonnie? We don't exactly know her story well either, if there's a reason for Mike wanting to leave the group to die, there's gotta be a reason for Bonnie too, there's a reason if she hates Clementine but it's almost illogical that she leaves just cause if she's nice to Clementine.
Real lucky.
I'm sure theyre going to explain the motives in depth in season 3. Remember, we dont know mike as much as we know bonnie, who from 400 days is known to back stab those who help her. She is a junk. But Mike, he still has alot of room of development to grow. Mike character motives at this point aren't really established yet. We can only guess why he did for now.
I don't remember any indication of Bonnie backstabbing anyone in 400 Days, just because she has history of being a Junkie doesn't automatically make her a villain. Bonnie also has allot of room for development, no one knows her past.
She was definately flirting and maybe more with Leland behind his wifes back. I'd say that home-wrecking definitely counts as backstabbing. Especially when it seems they went out of their way to help her get clean and take care of her.
That's not completely justifiable, one could say it was flirting, another could say it was being friendly, it all depends on perspective and what you see as flirting or being friendly. Also, if it was flirting, Bonnie sure wasn't the only one doing it, and by the dialogue choices given, you can tell she doesn't exactly think they are flirting. Sure, they may have rescued Bonnie, but Dee went behind Leland's back to steal something for him, there doesn't seem to have been trust in Dee and Leland's 'relationship'. Also, am I the only who noticed that whenever Bonnie tries to be nice to Dee, Leland ends up angering Dee?
Yet Howe's is the only place they know can be secure, I wouldn't blame some of them for not wanting to go back to Howe's if their reason was so that they could ignore the fact that they caused the deaths of innocent lives trying to escape when their best shot at survival was in that community.
But the thing is, Mark had food, the group had protection and people, also, the group could've easily outnumbered and forced the food from Mark.
In this life now you kill or you die
Or you die and you kill
You kill to survive in a ZA world, i think killing people would be classed as normal to be fair so in response to your thread, i think if you were living in a ruined world, you could probably live with someone who's killed someone. Disappointed that you shot Kenny though. His ending with Clem at Wellington is a million times better than Jane's ending in my opinion
Well it was hinted that there was something going on with bonnie and leland. Depending how you play her, you can leave leland behind.
The option to leave Leland behind is completely controlled by the player, so it's completely controversial in that matter. As for 'hinting' - do people think that certain interactions automatically mean two people have some kind of romantic relationship? It may have hinted it, but hinting isn't completely justifiable, it's more so opinionated.
Jane wanted Clem to leave Kenny, not kill him. If she wanted her to kill him she wouldn't have told her not to get involved.
I've already lived with a killer. My father once stomped on a spider, squishing it.
But as for someone whose killed another human, it depends on the circumstance. If it was a Kenny like ravenous psycho who is comfortable enough to cave in a mans head, bludgeoning it to skull and brain matter in front of a child then no. That'd rub me the wrong way, but if it was a Clementine like noble attempt to remove a dangerous individual from shoving a knife in an innocent woman's chest cause of a hunch, and she killed him... and was Clementine, then yes. I could easily live with someone like that.
In that case why didn't Jane tell Kenny that Alvin jr. was fine when the fight ascended to a life and death situation?
You think that would have stopped him trying to kill her?
You think you can think that logically when someone is actually trying to kill you?
Well I don't mind living someone who's killed in TWD game, but depending on the context of how they were killed matters to me.
Like Kenny, he crushed Larry's skull and I completely disagreed with his actions on that. Or when he killed Carver, it was in the most brutal fashion possible. If Kenny would have just shot him in the face I would be fine with that, but instead he beat his face in. To me, that makes him a disgusting human being for even doing that.
If you have to kill to survive in a zombie world, how come clem can survive without killing anyone for 2 years?
Or Sarah? Was she not alive?
he lost his familey u dont get wat hes been thru
he haz been thru worse than evry single human in apocalype put together. who r u 2 judj him