Why I didn't like the Lee flash back
We knew there would be one it was overall pretty predictable he would appear in some sort of flashback. My problem is it was just meant for an emotional grip and was what Season 2 had done almost the entire season (call back to Season 1). And I find it hard to believe she would dream of Lee before her parents. He basically showed up and told us to save Jane's dumb ass and left. I know seeing him it people in the feels and I can understand why but if you can look past that its kinda brainwash.
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He told us to save someone by hurting someone else. If Clem lets Jane die, she hurt her.
Agreed. I know some people will say that scene is there to help us in the kenny x jane choice, I get that. But I don't know, in my opinion it was supposed to be an emotional scene and I just didn't feel anything at the time.
Is it bad that I thought(just for a second) that it was happening in real time, and that Clementine had dreamed Lee dying?
For a couple of seconds, I was worried that Telltale pulled the dream card and made the second half of S1 and all of S2 a dream, but it just didn't seem Telltale-like for them to do that.
Yeah that's what I thought as well, before I realised how stupid it would've been. I'm really glad they didn't do that haha
Lee's flashback was bittersweet.
I don't see how the flashback relates to the Kenny & Jane choice.
If this doesn't scream Kenny, then I don't know what does. In the dream, he was referring to Lilly and what she did to Carley/Doug, but it can easily be used to describe how much Kenny has changed as a result of everything that's happened to him. Throughout the second season, Kenny was presented as crazy and temperamental, and while he was very hot headed in Season 1, it only got progressively worse in Season 2 where it started to affect his sanity. Kenny wasn't being himself anymore and, maybe the best way to deal with him, is to end his suffering or kill him before he seriously hurts anyone else.
The final confrontation between Kenny and Jane, you have to hurt one of them (let Kenny kill Jane or kill Kenny) to protect the other. It's all a matter of who you care about more, Kenny, the person who's been with you since Season 1 but has proven to be extremely volatile, or Jane, the person who you just met but has proven to be able to handle herself better than anyone and knows how to survive.
I guess it could also be interpreted that way, but I've always looked at this whole scene as referring to Kenny. It all comes down to how the player interprets and reacts to a certain scene I guess.
I took it as more why Arvo, Mike and Bonnie did what they did especially with the Lilly stuff
I feel like it's tying more to Jane.
She pretty much has these walls built up and puts up this tough front to hide what she really feels.
You forget that she wasn't able to kill Kenny? Kenny is stronger than her.
The original idea though was to have Jane on top of Kenny trying to kill him, instead of Kenny trying to kill Jane.
I guess somewhere down the road, they changed it to have Kenny ready to kill Jane, similar to how, at the last minute, they decided to take out the choice to kill Mike.
where did you find that image?
What irked me is what Lee said. He said he doesn't know how a bite works yet he pretty much saw what the fuck happens. Literally no sense of this.
It was posted somewhere in the "Details you might have forgotten" thread I believe, but I just quickly searched Google for it.
He said it to comfort Clementine.
And It goes the same way with Kenny. If someone cared about Jane, They had to hurt Kenny to help her.
Ben already told everyone how a bite works. It was as if Lee still doesn't know how it works in the apocalypse.
Luckily for me, I wasn't all over the internet when I started playing TWD games so, I felt surprised by the flashback and was surprised when Kenny showed up.
I didn't feel like Lee was telling me to save Jane...just that you have to make hard decisions whether you're prepared for it or not and that you can't dwell on it too much because that's just how the world is now. I ended up letting Kenny kill Jane b/c although I was actually somewhat relieved that Aj was gone, I couldn't believe that Jane would let Aj get killed......but also...if it had been reversed, I can't say that I would've shot Jane in order to save Kenny either...I probably would've let Jane kill Kenny...so, I essentially abstained from choosing and lived with the consequences of abstaining
Lee did know how a bite works, everyone did. He was just trying to make Clem feel better. Even those meaningless words can help, to hear someone assuring you that everything will get better, even if you know that is not true. Not to mention that Clem was still a little girl back there, and she certainly felt better after hearing couple of soothing words than people panicking and arguing.
IMO he wasn't speaking of Kenny or Jane. He was speaking to Clem, about the difficulties of HER life. How SHE may have to hurt people to save someone she cares for, and how it's not easy to keep on being yourself after something like that.
Yes his comments can speak to the latter situation with Kenny and Jane, but it's not about them, it's about Clem's reactions to the situations that she is forced into by them.
I liked it even though I stated that it would feel lame before the episode came out (when people here were speculating). It was a nice break from the crazy, tense, extreme situation Clem was in before the dream/flashback. Plus things were bad for Clementine and remembering advice from an old friend is comforting. The whole thinking about Lee before her parents should be pretty obvious why Telltale chose to do this. But I like to think Clementine did remember her parents in this episode as well. Anybody watch the trailer? It's good stuff.
l'm really tempted to make an entire discussion as a counterargument, as I've written essay-worth of posts as to why that was a good call to make.
That entire sequence was so bereft of any subtlety that I'm surprised Lee didn't straight up tell Clementine "hey sweetie, remember me? Remember all the shit we went through? Y'know we're almost at the end of the game?" There comes a point where having good fucking direction of a scene is more important than emotional baiting and God was that whole scene pointless.
I wouldn't exactly call that a problem in itself, but okay
You mean like how half of this game was designed
I must be the only one who never felt like they overdid the call backs
There were a few, but they barely amounted to that much
Most episodes only have Lee get name-dropped once or twice and that's about it. That's far from overdoing it. Overdoing it would be Clementine going on a 20 minute tangent every single episode where she has a peaceful flashback about Lee and their adventures, not a 3 second line that references him liking history
Despite the same problem (Lee favoritism) existing in Season 1, but of course no one really seems to care about it there
Or maybe that's how you interpreted that scene, and now you're trying to pass it off as a fact that you can use against the scene as a criticism
It could be saying a lot of things, not just "Hey player, save Jane, it's 100% the right choice! You're an idiot if you try to choose Kenny, you brainless simpleton!"
You could twist it that way for just about any scene in this game if you really wanted to
You could call Clementine and her relationship with Lee a pathetic attempt that brainwashing the player to attach themselves to her, or all of Ben's screw-ups being a less-than-subtle attempt to brainwash people into hating him
Hell, in the case of Ben it's probably true, which just outlines the fact that the game isn't a stranger to manipulating/brainwashing people
Yeah, Ben's case is true, Telltale wanted the choice to be closer to 50/50 and not the 90% they originally had with play testers so they added the scene where he abandoned Clem. It was in that Season 1 documentary that came with the GOTY edition of the game.
Why would I forget that?
Do it. I dare you
Why didn't that happen? I wanted to shoot that bitch myself
Probably because they thought it would be a harder choice for the player. They wanted to present it as Jane being the victim of Kenny's aggression, that there was no bringing Kenny back after this and you need to shoot him to end it all and protect Jane. After all, the writers tried presenting Kenny, throughout the entire game, as someone who has lost his sanity. By making Jane the victim, it got more people to shoot Kenny, I guarantee that if they went with this, more people would have Kenny alive.
Most people did though. I think the reason they changed it was because they kind of knew Jane was a cheap last second thought and a weak character so Kenny's bitchy attitude, Forced bonding for all of Amid The Ruins and putting her in this position probably meant Telltale wanted us to feel more compelled to save her.... FAILED
You don't like a lot of things, do you?
I'm pretty sure the conversation was about Arvo rather than telling people to kill Kenny.
I’m just glad Clem was given the option to sympathize with Lilly when Lee asked what they should’ve done with her. With all the Kenny bias I was half-expecting all the dialogue options to be some variation of “Lilly is a bitch, we should've killed her, Kenny fo life!”
I won't lie, at the moment when the flashback began, i first thought that telltale was going to piss off the gaming world by making everything that happened after S1E3 a dream.