Why is Sansa Stark so Popular?
Seriously, why do the fans like her? Unlike just about every other main character she kind of lacks any real skills and is important only because of her House Stark bloodline but other than that shes always being moved about and manipulated and forced into one marriage to the next - many times she's more like an object than a person - so why do people care for her - why hasn't GRRM killed her already? Is she seriously the 'younger and more beautiful' lady Maggie the Frog prophisized to Cersei (because its kind of obvious Margary is a red herring).
I personally hate her for betraying Eddard in Season 1 - even if her intentions weren't malicious. Season 5 did seem to be heading for the direction to empower her into a more cunning personality but again she was more or less simply objectified as the Key to the North with her marriage to Ramsay and then spending the remainder of the season trapped in (not in the Dreadfort) Winterfell like a Damsel in Distress.
There are much better characters in GoT than Sansa Stark - so why is someone like her so popular?
Comments
I'm not going much into how good or bad Sansa is as a character, because for me she is kinda average, but there is one thing in your post that makes me cringe
I've seen this surprisingly often. If this was just a little accident in the phrasing then okay, but if you really thought throughout the season that Sansa and the Boltons were in Dreadfort then I have to wonder do you really pay attention to what you are watching. It was made clear so many times that they are in Winterfell that you can't even say that the writing would have made it unclear where they are. Plus in the opening there was Winterfell every week, but not Dreadfort even once.
/off-topic rant over
Off-topic rants.... must be quite common.
BTW it is the Dreadfort since its technically a castle - but you're right she wasn't in the Dreadfort, she was back in Winterfell, I guess I got carried off by wanting to make an alliteration with the Dreadfort and Damsel in Distress.
You can't blame Sansa for d&d's horrible interpretation of her character. If you read the books, you'll find her much more likeable, because in the books, she's not written by a misogynist who doesn't understand her at all. But to your point of her "lacking any real skills" she is a 12 - 14 year old girl who is being held hostage by people who could easily have her killed. What the fuck do you expect her to do? Grab a sword and kill Joffrey, and Cersei? If you bothered to read the books, then you would probably like her much better, because a lot of her development in internal, and does not translate well to television, especially with terrible writers.
First time I've seen a thread like this. Usually it's the other way around. Most people hate Sansa. I don't hate her, I don't like her either. I think it's her first few chapters, where she's nasty to fan favourite Arya. I think people warm to her because of how badly she's treated.
Show Sansa I have no idea.
Book Sansa on the other hand seems to learn things. She's made keen observations and Littlefinger acts like a mentor figure. She isn't just the generic Damsel in Distress like in the show.
She's Ariel the Mermaid incarnate
Sansa is a pretty interesting character in the books since she grows up a lot from aGoT to her first chapter in tWoW ( which is seriously awesome, just read it : http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/ ), she did survive KL and is being mentored by littlefinger after all.
Show Sansa is basically Ramsay's cumbucket, so I don't have much to say about her.
Because she's awesome? I really like her character.
woah woah woah woah woah Sansa is one of my all time favorite character of the series so I feel obligated to defend her.
For the record, though, show Sansa is awful. Please don't judge Sansa as a character based on the show. Sure, Sophie Turner is great casting and all, but the writing and how her story went is just.. agh..
Betraying Eddard back in the beginning of the series? She was eleven, man... She didn't understand--she was living the life of a fairytale like her father brought her up to do. She was literally doing exactly what Ned told her. For example: Ned wanted her to side with the Lannisters back in the beginning of the series, and was glad she did. She didn't understand what was going in the grand scheme of things. If you want to blame anyone, blame Ned (another favorite character of mine,) for accepting the engagement and exposing his easily manipulated daughter to a family that he knew was so manipulative.
I won't get into too much detail, but I love her as a character because her character development is one of the most apparent out of any character in the series. As GRRM actually wrote in one of the Sansa POV chapters: "My skin has turned from porcelain, to ivory, to steel." She started off as a naive little girl who thought happy endings do come true, and I suspect that by the end of the series she will be a master manipulator, having out-maneuvered even Littlefinger. (It's a common fan theory that she will do so.)
Also, might I add: you claim that Sansa is only special because of her blood. I don't know what you define as making a good character, but I hope it's not the classic "be a badass and pwn everyone" character, because you obviously won't find that in Sansa. You have to really look for some of the good things in her, but once they are there they are really apparent and epic, which I think is what GRRM wanted in the first place.
Oh here comes the bookpurists, demonizing D&D and shit, because it isn't hard to make a great and successful tv show adaptation of books that are extremely hard to translate to TV, and can totally be done by "terrible writers" with limited time to write each year (you know someone who doesn't have limits on his time? Oh, yeah, the holy GRRM). But oh, thank god we have amazing people like you who know everything better and can throw insults from their high horses.
I dont get this lack of interpretation, what does she do in the books that we dont see in the show, her story "ends" with her leaving the vale which was at the end of season 4. I dont see how the showrunners are misogynists
In the books my view was identical to the show, shes naive and quite horrible then gets a sharp wakeup sort of understand things way later than she should. I dont hate her past about season 2, however thats what her character is, she is slowly progressing in both medias.
In the books all her internal thoughts give a bit more depth but thats true for all characters, and to be honest plenty of the that thought is also pretty naive.
Popular? The most misunderstood and unfairly hated character on the show?
Okay so the majority of Sansa Apologists appear to be Book Purists - I've only started reading the first book though perhaps they're right - perhaps Sansa is a much 'better' character in every way within the book series continuity than she is in the show. In the D&D adaptation I don't understand why she has so many fans since she spends most of her time being manipulated and used by others while she herself is just a pawn in someone else's game - seriously the end of Season 4 had so much promise for her but in Season 5 she spends another whole season being kept captive because of her valuable bloodline that makes her the Key to the North.
Okay I've heard in the books some girl named 'Jeyne Poole' who impersonates Arya takes her place in (not the Dreadfort) Winterfell and apparently she's a major character while in the show she only had a background cameo briefly in Season 1 - while Sansa is busy scheming with Littlefinger.
So maybe Book Sansa is better than Show Sansa - but then why is Show Sansa so popular? Just because the fans felt sorry for her suffering at the hands of that golden haired sociopath she suddenly deserves to become a favorite? Its one thing to pity what she's been through and how she's been used - but everytime she's been important to the plot its not because of her skills or personality or anything - the only reason she's kept around is because she's the last known Stark of Winterfell - and that's all the plot (of the show) makes her out to be so far - the Key to the North - someone whose either being kept captive or forced into a marriage or both because of the political importance of her bloodline - nothing about her as a person is ever relevant to the greater plot except that one time in Season 1 when her naive 11 year old self betrays Eddard.
Is she popular? I'm still waiting the day to see her do something.. anything. (in the tv show) I don't hate her or anything I just want her to start acting like a living person.
Oh you, go and read some more than.
Literature is not a horse racing when you choose favorites based on who is faster, it's a zoo where the writer and the reader observe and explore human nature, a window into souls that lets us understand how people change under different circumstances as well as why do we keep doing similarly stupid decisions throughout millennia.
Sansa's plotline shows us painful loss of innocence and naivety, her world turns upside down while she is used and abused by those who ought to be kind and just, but defended by the shunned and despicable. And Sansa can't show what is going on inside her, she has to wear a mask of Valyrian steel or pray for quick death, which does not leave her much space in the show, so yes, blame is on the D&D. I didn't love her much either before i've read half the first book.
And for old gods sake, it's Winterfell not Dreadfort.
I can't stand her in the show\books, so many awesome characters that could have POVs (Stannis, Tywin, Jorah) and GRRM choose to write chapter in her POV, like, she was no point of view LOL
There's kind of a double standard with Sansa. People are always like "BUT SHE BETRAYED NED!!!" Which is barely true btw, but people still crucify her over it--often the same people who seem to forget the horrible stuff Jaime and the Hound get up to regularly.
Sansa represents innocence within the story, and the clash of realism and idealism that GRRM frequently explores. That's why many people, me included, enjoy her character.
That said, they messed up her character on the show severely with that Ramsey business. There's still a chance they could set it right, but at this point I'm not very optimistic.
Cause she's hot
Barely true? She didn't betrayed Ned, she betrayed her family, herself too. Who's fault that Lady got killed? Sansa's.
Joffrey's and Cersei's fault. Arya's fault. Robert's, that lazy pig, fault especially.
Too old.
If Sansa told the truth, Ned would side with her daughters and Robert DEFINITELY wouldn't stand against Ned, Robert would send Joffrey and Cersei to take a fucking walk, but NO NO NO Sansa wanted to keep her future unhappy wedding safe, since she saw a little glimpse of Joffrey's madness when he spits in her face:"DON'T TOUCH ME!"
That too.
Of course, she could suddenly see in that glimpse his murderous nature, understand that all she was taught is a filthy lie and strip her dad of future king's good father position and herself of becoming a queen and shame the future king, not to mention awaken Robert's long-dead sense of duty and responsibility for a bloody moment, but I guess you are right, Sansa is just a stupid little girl.
I don't understand the love people have for that character/actress at all. I find her to be the worst part of the show and every episode I wishingly hope that she dies. When/if she does I will stand up and cheer because she is just god awful. Sophie Turner has 0 charisma to speak of, she is the most boring actress I have possibly ever seen. It just looks like she's constantly reading off of a piece of paper and she is so god damn bad that I can't even feel sorry for the character even when bad things happen to her, I just don't f'ing care about her in any sort of way. I find nothing to like about the character because she's just flat out BORING there is nothing to her what so ever she's just.....there. I cringe every time she shows up on the show because I know I'm in for the most boring and useless part of the show every time. Her still being alive takes away time that could be spent on better or new characters. There is nothing likable about that character and Sophie Turner herself is like watching paint dry.
I call them terrible writers because they go out of their way to avoid actual book material which still existed for Sansa (they still had three whole chapters from AFFC) adn shoehorn her into hte role of Jeyne Poole, just because they forgot to cast Jeyne in season 1. They do not understand the character because they think that having Sansa, a main POV character in her own right, fill in for a lesser character is okay. They purposefully wrote season 5 so that Sansa would be raped by Ramsay, throwing all the development which she did have under the bus, and make her arc subservient to two less important male characters, Ramsay and Theon. Also, they are terrible writers because of how they butchered Dorne. Even if you didn't read the books, you cannot honestly tell me that that arc was well written. "You want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy." That was a line which actual people wrote, read and thought should be included in a scene. I understand that writing and producing such a large show is difficult, but their job would be so much easier if they stuck to what source material they already had. Now they're going back to show more material from AFFC/ADWD which they could have put into season 5 so that it wasn't rushing through so much. And how can you defend their treatment of Stannis' arc. They shoved the entire Battle of Winterfell into less than five seconds of screentime, and then completely trashed Brienne's character so that she left her duty to save Sansa to go get revenge for a man she barely knew, and who she should have already gotten over. And no I'm not a book purist. I actually enjoyed the show, despite the changes, up until season 5. Season 5 just proves that d&D are in way over their heads, and have no respect or understanding of hte source material. They only see events. This character dies, Ramsay rapes his wife, but they do not understand the characters or motivations behind their actions. Take Stannis burning Shireem ,for example. Yes, Shireen is going to die in the books, and is probably going to be burned. But not by Stannis, because Stannis would not kill his only heir in order to win a battle. They ruin the characterization of characters they do not like, for no reason, which is unprofessional. They changed Sansa's arc so that she gets raped for no reason. They had Stannis kill his daughter for no reason, they made Jaime go to Dorne for no reason. They are bad writers because they make these decisions to change cannon, just because the feel like it.
First, Sansa still had three chapters from AFFC which they had not yet covered. They could have shown the actual descent from the Eyrie, they could have done the Lords Declarant bit, the Harry the Heir plot, and then gone into the actual Winds of Winter material for Sansa, with organizing the tourney for Sweet Robin's Winged Knights. But instead they chose to make Sansa fill in for Jeyne Poole for no discernible reason. They misinterpret Sansa's character because they think it does not matter if she takes Jeyne's place, so long as Ramsay's wife is getting raped, and Theon gets his manpain to motivate him into escaping. Also, in the eariler seasons, they cut a lot of her meaningful interactions with Sandor, and even her involvement in the escape plan with Ser Dontos, all to give her time with Margaery, who is supposed to have abandoned her after she wed Tyrion. And in her marriage to Tyrion, they had Sansa acting like his buddy, which is out of character for her, because she is supposed to be resistant to him. A lot of their misinterpretation prior to season 5 was small, but it still matters, and shows they actaully don't like her character as much as they say. The fact that they think Sansa can fill in for Jeyne as Ramsay's victim, however, jsut shows they have no respec for her charcater at all because they throw all of her development out of the window.
Yes, thank you.
That's where you are wrong though. They change the canon, because they know where the story will go in the end and they know they must cut and change a lot of stuff to successfully get there with a tv adaptation. Sure, not every change is executed well, but there are no perfect writers and so far they have done mostly well.
Yes, a piece of bad writing. Kinda like "fat pink mast" or "Myrish swamp".
(I have read the books, and I think they are great so that's not my problem)
I think this is more of your personal opinion and problem. You have created these images of the characters and their motivations in your head, based on them in the books, and when someone else has a different take on these characters you just throw shit at it because it doesn't match your interpretation on them. There is good character development in the show, but when that development somehow differs from the "sacred sourcematerial" some people just equal it to there being no development, but only ruining of characterization as you put it. Take Stannis for example: I can totally agree with you that he is not similar with his counterpart in the books - so what? The books are the books and the show is the show. Stannis is not the same but he still is amazing character with interesting story and development as a character.
And yes, Dorne was bad in the show.... But tbh it kinda bored the hell out of me in the books as well - not that that should be an excuse, but it's good to remember that the sourcematerial isn't flawless, especially when it comes to AFfC and ADwD. And it is also good to remember that D&D know much more about what will be important in the story than we do.
I agree with the first part, not the second. I dont feel her character has been messed up in any way. I still root for her.
Joffrey and Cercei, but especially Robert for not standing up to Cercei. Sansa was a child. The idea of her betraying anyone is so crazy to me. She was caught between a rock and a hard place. Even her father understood the impossible situation she was in. Arya is too young too understand.
This is the last thing I'm going to say on the matter, but they did state in one of the episode end cap interviews that "It made sense creatively, because we wanted it to happen" about one of their changes, I do not remember which one. That is essentially admitting that they make these changes because they feel like. If they were making their own show, then this would be fine, but since they are adapting someone else's work, they have a professional obligation to only make changes which actually improve the show. Raping Sansa instead of Jeyne does not make the show better. Getting rid of Arianne Martell and making Ellaria Sand revenge crazy does not make a better show. Sending Jaime on a quest which is pointless in the end, instead of having him go to the Riverlands does not make a better show. While I understand that they cannot put everything from the books into the show, I do think they have an obligation to make the scenes they do choose to adapt faithful to the spirit of the source material. It is alright if they make a few changes here and there, but when they start doing huge changes to characters for no reason other than they wanted it to happen, that is when I have a problem.
i hope that was sarcasm.
Well, yes, in a way you are right - they do some things because they "feel like". However that "feel like" just means that they think they can tell the story better that way rather than sticking in to the books. Reason could for example be that they have a character with an amazing actor - so, do they rather follow the books blindly even if it would mean practically empty season for him/her or do they make changes to tell the story of this character differently? Of course they change it. And as I said earlier not all changes are well done (two of your examples were from Dorne and I already stated my opinion about that storyline), some kinda fell flat, but with a show with so many characters and storylines that is just bound to happen sometimes. And it still doesn't mean that going by the book would have necessarily worked better. Anyway, I think it's the next season that defines if the Dorne plot was pointless or not.
If it's impossible for you to watch a story that does not follow the books faithfully (which is not even possible for a tv adaptation if you ask me, unless you make it animated) then it's better to just stop watching. You already have the books, why is it so bad if there is another version of the story that is slightly different? (rhetorical question, no need to answer.)
They missed out a few scenes but they added a few early to. They've changed other characters way more.
With the jeyne change that the only main one, and frankly they are doing this with many storylines, they just cant continue them all.
You can hate them leaving out scenes and changing things, but it overall they have done this. Read the books if you hate the show so much and like sansa in them more.
It's so hard for me to like a character (I love Sansa's character) when so many people hate on them.
I LOVE Sansa (No, I do not read the books)
Great summary
I personally started to dislike her when it took her losing everything and going far passed the point of no return to realize what a monster Joffrey was instead of getting the hint when he was swinging a deadly weapon at her little sister. And she never got better from there for me. (Although, MAYBE she'll be better in the books as I'm currently reading them.)
http://kateofthecanals.tumblr.com/post/129554135281/all-of-this-could-have-been-yours-why-game-of
Read the post this links to. It basically sums up every point I was making, and explains exactly why D&D fucked up the show.