Kenny wants to control Clem, Jane wants Clem to have the skills needed to survive
Jane knows she cannot always be around so she prepares Clem for the future and to learn to see monsters, Kenny, who they are. Kenny had already destroyed multiple groups because of his mental instability.
Kenny is short-sighted and cannot see a world where he isn't there controlling Clem and dictating what she can and cannot do. His violent behavior towards others and even Clem, if she doesn't toe the line, makes him too dangerous - like a rabid dog.
Anyone that cares for Clem's future, as she isn't ready yet to be fully alone, chooses Jane and ends Kenny before he can kill an innocent and truly become the monster he despises.
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Really? How can he be controlling of Clem when he convinces her to stay at Wellington without him? Y'know, that kind of defeats your argument.
Agreed
Why would he control Clem when he sacrifices himself many times to keep Clem safe? He save her from Carver and tries to convince her to stay in Wellington without him. Let me explain. Jane is the one who is fucking unstable. She convinces Clem to leave her friends to die to care for herself, she robbed a defenseless boy which caused Clem's group to be ambushed, she made Luke an offer to just forget about his job of keeping a lookout for walkers and leaves a baby to die to manipulate a poor little girl to shoot her own friend. JANE IS DANGEROUS, JANE IS NOT CLEM's FRIEND. SHE NEEDED TO DIE.
Honestly it's like the people on this forum are incapable of praising one character without shitting on another.
I honestly, 100%, wholeheartedly, going to say no. That's not his intentions.
KENNY IS DANGEROUS. KENNY IS NOT CLEM'S FRIEND. HE NEEDED TO DIE.
His intentions are noble. He tries his hardest to keep those close to him safe. He just kinda has a fucked up way of showing it sometimes.
Lol I hate Kenny as much as the next guy (mostly because the writers' tendency to have him steal the spotlight and I can't stand his childish behavior), but he does care about Clem. Both Jane and Kenny cared for her in their own ways, and they both have their own faults. It's up to the player to decide how malicious each character is being in reality.
Personally I chose Jane because Kenny's plans--which he never thinks through--are foolish and likely to get you killed, and it's a downright miracle he's still alive. Remember how he wanted to just "improvise" in order to get through that herd, with no plan? Remember how he didn't think twice about shooting Carver's man, and shooting Carver himself, not even considering Carver might shoot back and kill people Kenny cared about? Remember how he wanted to take on a bunch of people armed with guns with his bare hands, as if he thinks that with a big enough ego, if he's some sort of "badass" he'll stop bullets from killing him and the rest of the group? Remember how he refuses to give up looking for Wellington, even though no one else agrees with him and it's a guaranteed death sentence? This is what the OP's referring to, I believe. Not so much that Kenny "controls" every one of Clementine's individual actions, but rather that Clementine is at the mercy of Kenny's horrible plans he refuses to think through.
You can't deny that both characters have their faults. It's kind of unrealistic to talk about a character's strengths without addressing their faults as well. There's people who honestly like both Jane and Kenny, and all I can say is, bless them.
Yes absolutely they both have faults but people exaggerate so much. No one can say "Janes awesome" without saying "KENNY DESERVES TO DIE!!!" or they can't say "Kenny is a loyal friend" without saying "JANES A SELFISH BACKSTABBING BITCH!!!" it's ridiculous! I just wish people would tone it down a bit. I like both characters so naturally comments like those annoy me.
Lol I must be one of the few people that actually enjoyed Kenny's protagonism in Season 2. XD
Well fyi I like Jane but I don't think Kenny deserves to die (well, not all the time lol). I just would prefer to be far, far away from him lol.
And yeah, you're right when you say people exaggerate. I think those kinds of comments arise from the fact that, of course, the whole set up of how Kenny and Jane were pitted against each other. One character opposed the other, and so fans of one character tend to oppose fans of the other character (though of course people who liked neither character also chime in on the discussion.) :shrug: Idk, it's a debate. It can get ugly, but I think that's because people get so attached to the characters they feel the need to defend them as much as they can, and sometimes they (myself included) go a bit overboard.
I don't think it's particularly enjoyable when Kenny's actions get Walt and determinately Alvin killed, or when Clem determinately ends up with Carver's gun against her head. I don't think it's "badass" or "cool" how Kenny wasted time caving Carver's face in at the end of "In Harm's Way" when, if he had just shot Carver in the head and left him minutes earlier like they should've, the group would've gotten through most of the parking lot before most of the herd descended on them, they would have avoided Troy, and they would have avoided the shooters from the roof of Howe's. If it wasn't for Kenny's bloodlust, Carlos would've still been alive, the group wouldn't have gotten separated, Sarita wouldn't have been bitten, and Sarah wouldn't have fallen into such a state.
LOL. Now its Kenny's fault that Carlos, Sarita and Sarah dies. Holy shit xD
Well, the cabin group got Kenny into that mess in the first place. I agree Kenny is not a saint, but he has his heart in the right place. Kenny beating Carver didn't stop the group from leaving, it's just Kenny, Rebecca and determinantly Clem who got left behind. Kenny himself tells them to "go on". It's not Kenny's fault that things got messy.
Many people tend to blame Kenny for everything, not sure why.
Following that logic, Clem is much as a culprit of the bad stuff that happened as Kenny is.
I don't care if Kenny's heart is in the right place. His brain isn't in the right place; he never thinks a single thing through. And the cabin group isn't going to abandon him, Clem and Rebecca--the cabin group wasn't going to leave behind a pregnant woman or a child with a guy who just lost an eye and is starting to show his first signs of craziness, and Sarita wasn't going to leave Kenny behind either.
Um well, it's hard for anyone's brain to be in the right place in the apocalypse. Kenny acts very impulsive, but he's proved he's a survivor. He wouldn't abandon Clem either. What I wanted to say is that Kenny didn't cause Carlos' death, Sarah's shock or Sarita's demise. Those were the walkers. That stuff happens and you can't do anything about it. Indirectly causing something that you didn't wanted doesn't make you the culprit, tho I understand if they feel guilty afterwards.
All Kenny hate starts from the Larry decision. If you didn't side with him on that(i didn't side with him back then), he definitely act like a jerk, he didn't even help you at the drugstore when you are in danger. But thats about it. One REALLY bad thing he did. So some people still hold a grudge.
No it's not lol. You just take a second and think things through. E.g. look at literally any other character besides Kenny.
Yes, you can. You can recognize that you're being reckless and stop your foolish behavior. You can stop and think and learn from the situation; you can learn to be more tactful and more careful for the sake of the safety of others around you, but Kenny refuses to do so.
Kenny is impulsive and stubborn, but that really make him a bad guy? And what with his brains? He seems ok, i mean after his kid was biten and his wife blown her brains out right in front of him, he is pretty much ok.
Oh no honey. Kenny's done a lot of really bad things besides that. Honestly I have no patience for his irresponsibility and his reckless behavior in most things he's done in both season 1 and season 2.
Please give examples of this "really bad things".
I find it hard to blame Kenny for the deaths of Carlos and Sarita. From my point of view, he's about as responsible as Ben is for the deaths of Duck and Katjaa, which is to say, incredibly indirect. It's the case of one action snowballing into something far worse. It's not on the same level as Kenny getting Walt killed, where his actions directly and definitively fed into the death in question.
Ben makes the deal with the bandits, Lilly gets suspicious > Lee looks around, finds bag > Bandits see Lee take bag, and attack > Lilly shoots back, starts a firefight > Firefight attracts walkers > Walker bites Duck in the process of escaping > Katjaa commits suicide due to Duck's imminent death.
Kenny stays to bash Carver's face in > Group leaves a little later > Troy find them, holds them up > Jane shoots Troy > Gunshot + Troy's screams attract the guards on the roof to the side the group is escaping from > Guards fire into herd, Carlos gets hit by a stray bullet > Sarah loses it, walkers notice her > Sarita attempts to help Sarah > Sarita gets bitten by a walker in the process.
From my perspective, when the death happens that far down the line of causation, I find it hard to hold it against the character in question. And if we want to argue it, Carlos taking a bullet could have still happened regardless of what Kenny did. If Kenny didn't stay to kill Carver, they may have been able to make it further into the herd, but what if Troy came out and decided to start firing at the herd in a desperate attempt to hold them back? If he did, it would have gotten the attention of the guards, which would lead to them moving over to the side we were escaping from, and Carlos (or possibly someone else) could have still taken a stray bullet in the end.
Their priority when leaving Carver's should've been just that--leaving Carver's. You can't let emotions like anger and vengeance get in the way of survival. They should've left Howe's as soon as they were able to, to make a clean escape. Both Kenny and Rebecca were responsible for that, as both wanted to stay, when it would've been best to try to get out of there asap. I'm not saying that there couldn't have been other ways in which the plan could've ended up badly. But Kenny's insistence on staying did not help matters.
I agree completely. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but why bash someone else for thinking differently? I just don't get that. For anyone who wasn't there, that was the main cause of the forums being so volatile after the end of season 2. Those days still induce night terrors for me.
I doubt that
LEE IS DANGEROUS. LEE IS NOT CLEM'S FRIEND. HE NEEDED TO D-no wait I think I'm doing it wrong
YOU SIR
are the best thing that came out of this small little argument.
When it results in people dying, and when Kenny refuses to learn from his mistakes, yes, that makes him a bad guy.
There is literally no one died cause of him. We can argue about Walter and Alvin, but come on, its Carver killed them. You cant blame Kenny for trying to kill a psychopath.
i think both are psychotic murderers, that's why i chose to kill Kenny and leave Jane.
That's what Clem would canonly do
He.
Murdered.
Jane.
Don't keep promises you can't keep, Kenny.
"Hang all Jane fans"
A real tour de force of a thread
I actually liked Jane before this happened. But after this... why did she do this, why she keep playing on his nerves? All this situation was messy enough: Luke died, all supplies was stolen by Mike, Bonnie and Arvo(lol this guy and his group tried to rob us and almost KILL us), Clementine was injured... and she start this argument in the car. Yeah Kenny was angry and she make him even more angry. What exactly she expected? But he was just angry... until the greatest idea came to her mind. They was in the middle of nowhere, they need to stick together, but noooo she wanted to prove that Kenny is like Carver. This conflict was started by her, and to stop it she just only need to say that AJ is alive and well(actually she cant know that cause he can be already eaten by walker that came to him because he's crying), but she took the knife. I don't see why i have to blame Kenny for killing her, he wasn't right doing that, but she brought that on herself.
p.s. Also we can look at that cituation and say that it's writers fault who just want create drama out of nothing, cause all this build to Kenny/Jane conflict only starts in episode 5.
There's no canon route in this game.
100% agreed!
Well, he sorta kept the promise: he didn't beat up Arvo again
I'm pretty sure Jane ain't Arvo
(joking, pls don't kill)