Neither of those are considered being a "dick" to him though. Not to same level as Clementine borderline bullying Sarah or her entirely brea… moreking her character and senselessly and coldly watching a man get his face disfigured in an attempt to simply make said Kenny look "badass" and "cool."
In fact, he's one of the only characters she acts entirely passive towards. Allowing him to steer her choices and envelope her as a character every time the choice pertains to him. Do you take Kenny's advice and put yourself in danger by following his instruction to take the walkie or do you softly and unsurely disagree only to quietly have him force you into the plan anyway?
Nope no way, highly disagree with that (obviously no surprise there), just yet again your opinion and it doesn't make it fact. You cannot honestly say that having Kenny around isn't good? Because love him or hate him, he is an interesting character, things happen when he's around (most bad in your opinion). Me? I find the guy not only hilarious with his funny one liners when he's mad but also like him for the reasons i have stated many many times
The game unfairly favored Kenny to anyone else. Clem was a perfectly fine character and had enough flaws and developed throughout Amid the R… moreuins that without Kenny constantly being such a primary focal point, she would've more than served the narrative on her own.
The issue is that by the time the abomination No Going Back was released, the writers apparently were more in favor of putting Clementine as a secondary focus to Kenny's awful "redemption" story arc. Every scene was Kenny this, Kenny that.
He's done far more damage to TWD game than Clem.
He's absolutely not interesting. He's actually the most boring additional character in season two, why TT brought him of all the determinant characters back is beyond me.
EveryonesClemInTime
Nope no way, highly disagree with that (obviously no surprise there), just yet again your opinion and it doesn't make… more it fact. You cannot honestly say that having Kenny around isn't good? Because love him or hate him, he is an interesting character, things happen when he's around (most bad in your opinion). Me? I find the guy not only hilarious with his funny one liners when he's mad but also like him for the reasons i have stated many many times
Which is the problem of people playing as Clementine. Like you said "She has been being built since season 1". If she was a non playable character she could have stuck to that. But by giving people the choice to play her to their liking she must be free to make choices that seem out of character. As a child she seemed very sweet, yet tough for her age. Kenny on the other hand could be nice, but also really aggressive. His character would have been easier to write for because we got to see other sides to his personality. Multiple choices, and play style would have been more believable.
Neither of those are considered being a "dick" to him though. Not to same level as Clementine borderline bullying Sarah or her entirely brea… moreking her character and senselessly and coldly watching a man get his face disfigured in an attempt to simply make said Kenny look "badass" and "cool."
In fact, he's one of the only characters she acts entirely passive towards. Allowing him to steer her choices and envelope her as a character every time the choice pertains to him. Do you take Kenny's advice and put yourself in danger by following his instruction to take the walkie or do you softly and unsurely disagree only to quietly have him force you into the plan anyway?
Why wouldn't she trust Kenny? There is no reason why she wouldn't at this stage of the game. Later on during his unstable mourning/reckless stage then yes maybe she would question him but there's no reason not too at this point.
You know, I really thought we were past all of this Kenny bullshit for a while recently
I guess not anymore
eh, it was probably wishful thinking that people would finally shut up about him anyways
Seriously, every single time he's brought up, it is the exact same thing verbatim. There's nothing new about these arguments, no new points are brought up, and it ends in the same roundabout arguments between two or more people that quite obviously aren't going to be changing each other's viewpoints, until one of them finally gets bored enough to stop trying to fruitlessly refute one another, despite the fact that that should have happened in the earlier stages of what would become another class-A shitstorm
So why does this keep happening
what is being accomplished anymore, because I'm not seeing it
Sure. But I like Joel from The Last of Us as a character. Would I want to ever see him in a sequel? Nope. His story is concluded, nothing that any writer could do would make his arc relevant after the end of the game.
You see? Fans shouldn't dictate where a story goes or who shows up just because some people may like it. That's not the point of a narrative anyway.
Well he is interesting to me. Without him there wouldn't be any drama and you don't hear other people talking half as much about some of the other characters do you? You talk about him a lot so you love to hate him
He's absolutely not interesting. He's actually the most boring additional character in season two, why TT brought him of all the determinant characters back is beyond me.
I think you just hate it that they didnt make Clem out to be an asshole that Lee (based on choices) could be to Kenny. She's a different person to Lee and you have to remember that Kenny was as close to Lee as Clem could get like it or not and that is why i feel she had a soft spot for him hence the good season 2 ending
Sean Vanaman even said he deleted Kenny's death recordings not that long before No Time Left was released
So then it's fair to assume that the writing staff had known he would play a part in the future of the series because by doing that, they artificial extended his agency on the story. Not having a clear concise ending of a character in a series that is very much favorable of killing off cast members to show futility is a bit of a cop-out.
And then later putting him in the game and presenting it as a "returning fan favorite" only to have him do nothing of interest or give any resemblance of a relatable performance is what castrated the game's dark tone. I couldn't relate to him or his struggles. Added on to that, TT slowly tried steering him in the direction of being Clem's guardian and constantly contrasted him and Lee, as if anyone needed a distinction that wasn't there in the first place.
He was a miasma on the series, a sickly character whose input far outweighed their output on the franchise.
You know, I really thought we were past all of this Kenny bullshit for a while recently
I guess not anymore
eh, it was probably wishfu… morel thinking that people would finally shut up about him anyways
Seriously, every single time he's brought up, it is the exact same thing verbatim. There's nothing new about these arguments, no new points are brought up, and it ends in the same roundabout arguments between two or more people that quite obviously aren't going to be changing each other's viewpoints, until one of them finally gets bored enough to stop trying to fruitlessly refute one another, despite the fact that that should have happened in the earlier stages of what would become another class-A shitstorm
So why does this keep happening
what is being accomplished anymore, because I'm not seeing it
Eh, to each their own, I guess. For me, if it wasn't for Kenny, S2 would've been a lot worse, like, so so sooo much worse. Hell, even S1 wouldn't have been the same. He was definitely the most interesting character for me. I just can't see S3 without him, like other people can't see S3 without Clem. He's my favorite character of the whole franchise (more than Daryl for example) and the most awesome, badass and human. I'm one of those few people that did enjoy his protagonism in S2 and even desired for him to have more. For me, he is as important in this story as Clem is and that's why I was glad he was getting so much attention in S2. I consider him the tritagonist (now deuteragonist) after all.
P.S: I know it will never happen but I would totally love a playable Kenny. At least in a DLC.
All that's fine, but the cold fact still remains that TT did favor Kenny... much more so than any other character. No Going Back is a testament to that. Every scene Kenny's presented in is of a favorable tone throughout the episode. It becomes nauseating.
I'm going to level with you. My hatred for Kenny has always been slightly exaggerated. What irks me about his character isn't even that I perceive him to be an evil cold bastard but is that the narrative doesn't seem to ever fully acknowledge it.
I love characters like Kane and Lynch (Kane and Lynch), Captain Martin Walker (Spec Ops: The Line), or Joel (The Last of Us). All of which are very evil and morally fractured people. But each in a narrative that presents them with a tone appropriate to their characteristics giving them relatability and making me feel closer to them.
I feel like every time I get to the end of Spec Ops, I don't hate Walker for his horrible atrocities even though he is obviously a sick person. I feel sad for him... because the writing and tone paints him as a much more complex and almost tragic figure than TWD ever did to Kenny.
Same thing for games like Grand Theft Auto 5. I don't hate Trevor even though he is arguably the most lacking in moral fiber. In fact, I'd say Trevor is one of my favorite GTA characters of all time and I absolutely detest him as a person.
Tone is important in establishing connections. And I find the actions Kenny takes to the tone their presented in to be borderline disturbing.
Eh, pretty much every modern Telltale game has dialogue choices where you're pigeonholed into a specific response; agreeing with a character… more in all the choices, disagreeing with the character in all the choices, or being a dick to the character in all of the choices, with no middle ground besides silence (which half of the time also isn't good, and the character takes your silence badly, or thinks you silently agree with them). S2 isn't the only offender, here.
For example; if you didn't kill Larry, every single option is more or less "you're an asshole, Kenny" with no middle ground to it. No option that doesn't involve saying something to that effect. Even the silence has him getting pissy with you since you can't even be upfront with him. Not even a "I get why you did that, but you could have waited another minute"
I chalk it up to: Telltale just re-using old character models (all adults, cept Clem and Duck), Voice actors they know excel at voicing adults, and they wanted to write a messed up adult story from the p.o.v. of a kid. Plus kids (plural) are annoying, especially when danger is around every corner.
I think teens are still kids fyi.
You know, I really thought we were past all of this Kenny bullshit for a while recently
Rule #1 of this forum is to never stop talking/arguing about the same thing
eight to ten hours season one yes, season two? No where near eight to 10. I'd say i did season 2 in around 6. I wouldn't say boring, think about it, in season one, Kenny was a determind, married man looking after his son and wife, who lost his whole family and became depressed, then in season two, you can still tell his effected by whats happened and when Sarita dies, you can expect how he feels. Yes he had a go at Clementine but really, Bonnie shouldn't of told Clementine to go talk to him when he was in that state, he wouldve went of at anyone who tried to talk to him at that time. And like i said, don't blame a fictional character because of real writers not putting enough effort into the other character development. We gave Clementine time, in fact 5 episodes of being the protagonist, and the writers developed her into a mindless asshole. That's why she should never of been the playable character for season two. She was a nice innocent girl in season one that you would protect, season two and now she has little emotions, that's no how Lee would've wanted her to be like, he taught her to take care of herself, not to be an asshole to people and not care. Clementine has hurt these games more then any other character has. People want to say the Kenny fans are bad, well if you talk one bit of smack about Clementine, the Clem army will descend on you that quick. Big deal, she's little girl, Duck was a little boy yet got shit all the time, yet Clementine didn't listen to lee, took off, got kidnapped by the stranger, got Lee bit, resulted in Ben's death, Kenny being separated and in term, costing Lee his life. All because she wouldn't listen to proper advice. But hey, lets all pick on Duck when the Clementine was far worse then him.
Too much screen time was given to Kenny for any other characters to be developed in the first place.
Out of a roughly eight to ten hour g… moreame, in or around a solid two to three and a half were given solely to Kenny's character. That's an extremely large time frame for a person that we learn nothing new of and who can be summed up in one sentence, which is "boy, this guys an asshole."
Clementine did have faulty designs, sure. But she was at the very least a protagonist who felt like they were maturing and learning of loss, giving time to properly develop and structure her to be at the very least disguisable. Whereas Ken's emotional reaction is the exact same as it was in season one. He didn't feel developed, just boring and a hindrance to the entire flow of the season.
You know, I really thought we were past all of this Kenny bullshit for a while recently
Rule #1 of this forum is to never stop talking/arguing about the same thing
Comments
I suppose Clem telling him to stop being an asshole doesn't count then?
ok![:\](https://community.telltale.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
EveryonesClemInTime
Nope no way, highly disagree with that (obviously no surprise there), just yet again your opinion and it doesn't make it fact. You cannot honestly say that having Kenny around isn't good? Because love him or hate him, he is an interesting character, things happen when he's around (most bad in your opinion). Me? I find the guy not only hilarious with his funny one liners when he's mad but also like him for the reasons i have stated many many times
He's absolutely not interesting. He's actually the most boring additional character in season two, why TT brought him of all the determinant characters back is beyond me.
The one time Clem can show any retaliation towards Kenny... and it's never mentioned again by either character.
Kind of pointless.
Which is the problem of people playing as Clementine. Like you said "She has been being built since season 1". If she was a non playable character she could have stuck to that. But by giving people the choice to play her to their liking she must be free to make choices that seem out of character. As a child she seemed very sweet, yet tough for her age. Kenny on the other hand could be nice, but also really aggressive. His character would have been easier to write for because we got to see other sides to his personality. Multiple choices, and play style would have been more believable.
Chuckie dies in the first episode.
Because she's smarter than that.
You know, I really thought we were past all of this Kenny bullshit for a while recently
I guess not anymore
eh, it was probably wishful thinking that people would finally shut up about him anyways
Seriously, every single time he's brought up, it is the exact same thing verbatim. There's nothing new about these arguments, no new points are brought up, and it ends in the same roundabout arguments between two or more people that quite obviously aren't going to be changing each other's viewpoints, until one of them finally gets bored enough to stop trying to fruitlessly refute one another, despite the fact that that should have happened in the earlier stages of what would become another class-A shitstorm
So why does this keep happening
what is being accomplished anymore, because I'm not seeing it
Sure. But I like Joel from The Last of Us as a character. Would I want to ever see him in a sequel? Nope. His story is concluded, nothing that any writer could do would make his arc relevant after the end of the game.
You see? Fans shouldn't dictate where a story goes or who shows up just because some people may like it. That's not the point of a narrative anyway.
Well he is interesting to me. Without him there wouldn't be any drama and you don't hear other people talking half as much about some of the other characters do you? You talk about him a lot so you love to hate him
And thank you Goustttt
I think you just hate it that they didnt make Clem out to be an asshole that Lee (based on choices) could be to Kenny. She's a different person to Lee and you have to remember that Kenny was as close to Lee as Clem could get like it or not and that is why i feel she had a soft spot for him hence the good season 2 ending
So then it's fair to assume that the writing staff had known he would play a part in the future of the series because by doing that, they artificial extended his agency on the story. Not having a clear concise ending of a character in a series that is very much favorable of killing off cast members to show futility is a bit of a cop-out.
And then later putting him in the game and presenting it as a "returning fan favorite" only to have him do nothing of interest or give any resemblance of a relatable performance is what castrated the game's dark tone. I couldn't relate to him or his struggles. Added on to that, TT slowly tried steering him in the direction of being Clem's guardian and constantly contrasted him and Lee, as if anyone needed a distinction that wasn't there in the first place.
He was a miasma on the series, a sickly character whose input far outweighed their output on the franchise.
Rule #1 of this forum is to never stop talking/arguing about the same thing
Eh, to each their own, I guess. For me, if it wasn't for Kenny, S2 would've been a lot worse, like, so so sooo much worse. Hell, even S1 wouldn't have been the same. He was definitely the most interesting character for me. I just can't see S3 without him, like other people can't see S3 without Clem. He's my favorite character of the whole franchise (more than Daryl for example) and the most awesome, badass and human. I'm one of those few people that did enjoy his protagonism in S2 and even desired for him to have more. For me, he is as important in this story as Clem is and that's why I was glad he was getting so much attention in S2. I consider him the tritagonist (now deuteragonist) after all.
P.S: I know it will never happen but I would totally love a playable Kenny. At least in a DLC.
Just my opinion.
i agree, less adults and more kids
All that's fine, but the cold fact still remains that TT did favor Kenny... much more so than any other character. No Going Back is a testament to that. Every scene Kenny's presented in is of a favorable tone throughout the episode. It becomes nauseating.
Agreed.
I'm going to level with you. My hatred for Kenny has always been slightly exaggerated. What irks me about his character isn't even that I perceive him to be an evil cold bastard but is that the narrative doesn't seem to ever fully acknowledge it.
I love characters like Kane and Lynch (Kane and Lynch), Captain Martin Walker (Spec Ops: The Line), or Joel (The Last of Us). All of which are very evil and morally fractured people. But each in a narrative that presents them with a tone appropriate to their characteristics giving them relatability and making me feel closer to them.
I feel like every time I get to the end of Spec Ops, I don't hate Walker for his horrible atrocities even though he is obviously a sick person. I feel sad for him... because the writing and tone paints him as a much more complex and almost tragic figure than TWD ever did to Kenny.
Same thing for games like Grand Theft Auto 5. I don't hate Trevor even though he is arguably the most lacking in moral fiber. In fact, I'd say Trevor is one of my favorite GTA characters of all time and I absolutely detest him as a person.
Tone is important in establishing connections. And I find the actions Kenny takes to the tone their presented in to be borderline disturbing.
Stupid fucking game. What do they take us for?
I chalk it up to: Telltale just re-using old character models (all adults, cept Clem and Duck), Voice actors they know excel at voicing adults, and they wanted to write a messed up adult story from the p.o.v. of a kid. Plus kids (plural) are annoying, especially when danger is around every corner.
I think teens are still kids fyi.
fewer adults
Rugrats vs. The Walking Dead would be a great game.
Haha Well the game has been out for a while. Just about everything is being recycled
No no no. Season 2 should have had less douchebag adults, is what your looking for
Or Season 2 just shouldn't have made Clem the protagonist at all. That would have worked too.
eight to ten hours season one yes, season two? No where near eight to 10. I'd say i did season 2 in around 6. I wouldn't say boring, think about it, in season one, Kenny was a determind, married man looking after his son and wife, who lost his whole family and became depressed, then in season two, you can still tell his effected by whats happened and when Sarita dies, you can expect how he feels. Yes he had a go at Clementine but really, Bonnie shouldn't of told Clementine to go talk to him when he was in that state, he wouldve went of at anyone who tried to talk to him at that time. And like i said, don't blame a fictional character because of real writers not putting enough effort into the other character development. We gave Clementine time, in fact 5 episodes of being the protagonist, and the writers developed her into a mindless asshole. That's why she should never of been the playable character for season two. She was a nice innocent girl in season one that you would protect, season two and now she has little emotions, that's no how Lee would've wanted her to be like, he taught her to take care of herself, not to be an asshole to people and not care. Clementine has hurt these games more then any other character has. People want to say the Kenny fans are bad, well if you talk one bit of smack about Clementine, the Clem army will descend on you that quick. Big deal, she's little girl, Duck was a little boy yet got shit all the time, yet Clementine didn't listen to lee, took off, got kidnapped by the stranger, got Lee bit, resulted in Ben's death, Kenny being separated and in term, costing Lee his life. All because she wouldn't listen to proper advice. But hey, lets all pick on Duck when the Clementine was far worse then him.
Lee is alive!!!1!2!!1!1!! >:(
It's highly likely that most kids wouldn't have survived the apocalypse in the first place, so...?