I think Jane cared as much as she could. She wasnt an emotionally demonstrative person, but she didnt want to see the baby die. Thats how all of them acted toward AJ. They felt responsible for him because he was a helpless member of the group if not as strong an emotional attachment as Kenny and Clem. Otherwise, they probably would have just abandoned him. I think thats enough. He was, after all, barely a week old.
Did any of the group besides Kenny, Clem and obviously Rebecca actually care about the baby though? I mean really? Did they show it? Mike/Bonnie/Arvo certainly didn't and deep down I don't think Jane did either
Well i'd have thought that about Jane except near the start of episode 4 when she was talking to Rebecca she said "what are you going to do with it when its born" and Rebecca was offended because Jane implied she should get rid of the baby when born and i thought the same as Rebecca. In my opinion she cared enough about the baby but i think she'd abandon AJ if Clem wasn't around
I think Jane cared as much as she could. She wasnt an emotionally demonstrative person, but she didnt want to see the baby die. Thats how al… morel of them acted toward AJ. They felt responsible for him because he was a helpless member of the group if not as strong an emotional attachment as Kenny and Clem. Otherwise, they probably would have just abandoned him. I think thats enough. He was, after all, barely a week old.
What do you mean by that? I dont categorize myself as a "Jane fan". I see her as a character who was trying to do her best, and I feel like she genuinely cared for Clementine. But im not at the oppositve end of the Jane vs Kenny war.
Lol at the people liking Jane fans statuses.
To be fair if i cared enough about someone and thought someone had killed them, i'd be as angry as Kenny was with Jane
In a way like the Rictatorship displayed from the comic and show? It looked to me that Kenny was only trying to take leadership of the group by leading them to the safest area he knew of, Which was probably Wellington. Jane wanted to back back track to Howe's where herds regularly visit and after all the trouble they went through escaping and then Mike wanted to go way down to Texas for some Chili and horses I guess. Kenny might of tried to rudely take charge of the group towards the end but he was far from becoming something akin to Carver I believe, contrary to what the game wanted to influence all to believe.
It actually makes sense. Once you realize they tried convincing Clementine. I mean, who would stay in a group where Kenny calls the shot and disregards your opinion? Not me
What do you mean by that? I dont categorize myself as a "Jane fan". I see her as a character who was trying to do her best, and I feel like she genuinely cared for Clementine. But im not at the oppositve end of the Jane vs Kenny war.
Not only it was out-of-character, it was completely unnecessary and had ended up showing how biased the writers were with Kenny's role in Episode 5. There wasn't a single character who were allow to rationally disagree with Kenny and point the flaws in his plan, without being needlessly demonized in order to present Kenny as in the right.
Well said. More people are realizing how incredibly biased the writers in season 2 were towards Kenny.
Mike and Bonnie's actions in Episode 5 made little sense and had no foreshadowing from previous episodes to justify their decision to steal … morefrom everyone and take the truck. While I can understand why they would sympathies with Arvo, their decision to rob everyone while they sleep and drive off just because of Kenny was completely out of the blue, especially when they were shown to be the more level-headed of the group in Episode 4 full of dysfunctional team members.
Not only it was out-of-character, it was completely unnecessary and had ended up showing how biased the writers were with Kenny's role in Episode 5. There wasn't a single character who were allow to rationally disagree with Kenny and point the flaws in his plan, without being needlessly demonized in order to present Kenny as in the right.
The betrayal scene is one of the lowest points of the series.
It was a freedom to do whatever they wanted. They knew that staying with Kenny meant going to Wellington because he was so hellbent on making sure it wasn't any other way.
you cannot blame Kenny for losing his temper after losing his last hope
The only thing I'll blame Kenny for after losing Sarita is his choice to take it out on Clementine. After all, it was part of his plan to escape through the herd. (Luke's plan was to get him a radio and let him find a clear opening for them to dash through).
And verbally being hurt (regardless of why), it's the apocalypse, surely you can handle a few harsh words, haven't they handled MUCH worse
You can't brush off having emotions and feelings just because it's the apocalypse. Sure, they've endured worse both physically and mentally, but it's clearly evident that people still have feelings towards certain things being said. Do you really think Kenny could handle "a few words" about his family? He's shown that he can't.
10/10 for the philosophy, it slowed my reply right down. But was it really freedom? They're traveling with a guy who they don't know, and Ke… morenny never kept them captive, they could've left at any time. As they did in the worse possible way
And yes, Kenny had a shout at people. 1) He's just lost his symbol of hope and happiness (Sarita) and this never really changed until Alvin and Clem (later in Ep5), you cannot blame Kenny for losing his temper after losing his last hope. And verbally being hurt (regardless of why), it's the apocalypse, surely you can handle a few harsh words, haven't they handled MUCH worse, if they can't handle Kenny shouting at them, then they will die soon. End of, really.
Honestly, I don't even think Clementine was as strong in keeping him going than AJ was. In Episode 5, if you let Kenny kill Jane and then hold a gun up to Kenny (shoot Kenny option), in his mind thinking AJ is dead, he tells Clem to do it. Not kidding, those are his exact words. He didn't see Clementine as his beacon of hope, he saw Clementine as a string of the past. She reminded him of Lee and most likely his family from his days back at the motor inn.
To be fair if i cared enough about someone and thought someone had killed them, i'd be as angry as Kenny was with Jane
Jane never even stated that she killed AJ. The way Jane was acting, she implied it was an accident or was beyond her control to save him. Yet Kenny still attacked her instead of even confirming what happened. Again, like Clementine with Sarita, Kenny was looking for someone to take his anger out on.
Lol at the people liking Jane fans statuses.
To be fair if i cared enough about someone and thought someone had killed them, i'd be as angry as Kenny was with Jane
Fair enough, Kenny wanted to go to Wellington, staying or going was a fair decision, handled all wrong of course.
I think I mentioned this before, but Kenny wasn't having a go at Clementine, he was just shouting at her. He'd have done the same if Luke, Bonnie, Mike, etc had come over. Clem sadly was the first there and Kenny needed to shout, the rest is history. Yeah, you could say he needs to control his temper and shouting at a little girl is wrong, but you do have to understand that he's going through one of the worse moments in his life, his rational mind isn't going to be working as it should.
They have got feelings, it'd be a boring game if they didn't, but they should know when someone's just lost someone they love, their behaviour is going to be erratic, random, unpredictable. In Kenny's case, anger, they should know just to take what he says with a pinch of salt. Besides, he was only really shouty and angry when under stress. Mike + Bonnie never knew him in early S1 or the ski lodge, where he was relaxed and happy and not that bad of a guy. They never gave him a chance
But was it really freedom?
It was a freedom to do whatever they wanted. They knew that staying with Kenny meant going to Wellington … morebecause he was so hellbent on making sure it wasn't any other way.
you cannot blame Kenny for losing his temper after losing his last hope
The only thing I'll blame Kenny for after losing Sarita is his choice to take it out on Clementine. After all, it was part of his plan to escape through the herd. (Luke's plan was to get him a radio and let him find a clear opening for them to dash through).
And verbally being hurt (regardless of why), it's the apocalypse, surely you can handle a few harsh words, haven't they handled MUCH worse
You can't brush off having emotions and feelings just because it's the apocalypse. Sure, they've endured worse both physically and mentally, but it's clearly evident that people still have feelings towards certain things being said. Do you really think Kenny could handle "a few words" about his family? He's shown that he can't.
Men are physically stronger than most women. Biology, bud.
and pinned Mike to a wall and held him there
The only reason why that happened it because Mike didn't want to fight back. He even states that he just wanted to get the job done, clearly he didn't want a fight and didn't resist when Kenny "pinned" him against the wall. He used his words ("Get your hand off of me!") instead of using his hands.
Yeah, but that was S1 Kenny. S2 Kenny won a fight against Jane and pinned Mike to a wall and held him there, his fighting skills have improved significantly
Of course, but Kenny must be in his 40s and isn't as physically fit as Jane, as I'll take a guess, so it wasn't a certain victory for Kenny and men around the world. Anyways, biology was never my strongest
But surely Mike would push him off or hold him back, especially if he had the strength? We know he isn't a pacifist, he's manhandled Kenny afterwards and we know he has a certain amount of strength (the water). It seems strange that he wouldn't react somehow, especially as Kenny held him there for some time
S2 Kenny won a fight against Jane
Men are physically stronger than most women. Biology, bud.
and pinned Mike to a wall and hel… mored him there
The only reason why that happened it because Mike didn't want to fight back. He even states that he just wanted to get the job done, clearly he didn't want a fight and didn't resist when Kenny "pinned" him against the wall. He used his words ("Get your hand off of me!") instead of using his hands.
but Kenny wasn't having a go at Clementine, he was just shouting at her.
Well, for one, they're literally the same thing.
Secondly, this isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about him blaming Clementine for Sarita's death, not yelling at her for approaching him.
but they should know when someone's just lost someone they love, their behaviour is going to be erratic, random, unpredictable.
See, there's this thing called diversity. Basically, not everyone copes the same way as everyone else.
they should know just to take what he says with a pinch of salt.
Not everyone knew Kenny as well as Clementine did. His behaviour like that isn't normal anyway. To be loud and angry all the time, it isn't healthy. That's why people thought he was going crazy.
Mike + Bonnie never knew him in early S1 or the ski lodge, where he was relaxed and happy and not that bad of a guy. They never gave him a chance
It's not about giving him a chance, they've seen how Kenny acts. He tried to fight with Mike at Howe's just because he didn't want to do the job and Mike did. Mike's got that first impression printed in his mind because of that.
Fair enough, Kenny wanted to go to Wellington, staying or going was a fair decision, handled all wrong of course.
I think I mentioned thi… mores before, but Kenny wasn't having a go at Clementine, he was just shouting at her. He'd have done the same if Luke, Bonnie, Mike, etc had come over. Clem sadly was the first there and Kenny needed to shout, the rest is history. Yeah, you could say he needs to control his temper and shouting at a little girl is wrong, but you do have to understand that he's going through one of the worse moments in his life, his rational mind isn't going to be working as it should.
They have got feelings, it'd be a boring game if they didn't, but they should know when someone's just lost someone they love, their behaviour is going to be erratic, random, unpredictable. In Kenny's case, anger, they should know just to take what he says with a pinch of salt. Besides, he was only really shouty and angry when under stress. … [view original content]
The italics is hard to read, but he wasn't shouting directly AT her, just in her direction, to the person stood there. It's hard to explain via words, sorry. And I think he would have blamed anyone for her death, depending on what you did, i.e if you cut her arm off, it was a little reckless. I'll agree it was harsh and wrong, but he didn't mean it, and he realised this and apologised when he came to his senses
Exactly, people react differently, just as I was saying, they didn't really take this into account and just assumed he was crazy
But, with context, he was loud and angry in understandable situations 1) Captured in Howe's and wanting to escape from madman Carver and 2) Just lost his girlfriend. But like you say, they didn't know Kenny and his loud personality. But no-one's going to be happy when they've just been captured and with the following events
Kenny wasn't lazy or looking for a fight. He was protesting about having to work for his captors. Mike must've said he should get on with his work and whatever else. And it escalated there. An unfair impression to make of Kenny but you make a fair point, although Mike (and Bonnie) only ever saw the angry side to Kenny and unfairly judged him on that, they must know that they wasn't watching the real, normal Kenny
but Kenny wasn't having a go at Clementine, he was just shouting at her.
Well, for one, they're literally the same thing.
Secondl… morey, this isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about him blaming Clementine for Sarita's death, not yelling at her for approaching him.
but they should know when someone's just lost someone they love, their behaviour is going to be erratic, random, unpredictable.
See, there's this thing called diversity. Basically, not everyone copes the same way as everyone else.
they should know just to take what he says with a pinch of salt.
Not everyone knew Kenny as well as Clementine did. His behaviour like that isn't normal anyway. To be loud and angry all the time, it isn't healthy. That's why people thought he was going crazy.
Mike + Bonnie never knew him in early S1 or the ski lodge, where he was relaxed and happy and not that bad of a guy. They never gave him a chance
… [view original content]
The italics is hard to read, but he wasn't shouting directly AT her, just in her direction, to the person stood there.
You're kidding, right? Are you that much of a Kenny apologist that you're trying to play off him yelling at her for what he thought was a good reason to?
And I think he would have blamed anyone for her death
That's not helping your case. The fact that Kenny would blame anyone for doing anything to help Sarita that was in their control for her death doesn't make him look any better.
Exactly, people react differently, just as I was saying, they didn't really take this into account and just assumed he was crazy
Me saying "people react differently" didn't mean "oh, he's just venting it's totally okay." How Kenny reacts isn't excusable. I was referring to other group members or other people in general and how they don't beat defenseless kids up and lose control of themselves to the point of accidentally hurting the ones they love. Kenny is unhealthily dangerous to himself and those around him, he shouldn't even be looking after Clementine or the baby.
But, with context, he was loud and angry in understandable situations 1) Captured in Howe's and wanting to escape from madman Carver
The only reason why this one was understandable was because he knew that it meant his life and his girlfriend's life was at risk.
Mike must've said he should get on with his work and whatever else. And it escalated there. An unfair impression to make of Kenny
And because Mike possibly suggested he get on with his work gives Kenny a reason to get violent? That doesn't seem like an unfair impression to me.
although Mike (and Bonnie) only ever saw the angry side to Kenny and unfairly judged him on that
Kenny has shown a brighter side to himself in the presence of both Mike and Bonnie, and even Jane. For example, when the baby was born. His face lit up, he was happy. Everyone was. But the fact that it was rare to see Kenny happy since, as you said, Mike and Bonnie seemed to mostly see a negative side of Kenny, still isn't helping the fact that he's unstable. And gives them a reason to get away.
they must know that they wasn't watching the real, normal Kenny
Hate to break it to you, kid, but the Kenny you see now is the normal Kenny. People's demons overcome them and wash away the "old" version of them. Kenny was just too far gone, you couldn't fix him. Mike and Bonnie realized that and dashed.
The italics is hard to read, but he wasn't shouting directly AT her, just in her direction, to the person stood there. It's hard to explain … morevia words, sorry. And I think he would have blamed anyone for her death, depending on what you did, i.e if you cut her arm off, it was a little reckless. I'll agree it was harsh and wrong, but he didn't mean it, and he realised this and apologised when he came to his senses
Exactly, people react differently, just as I was saying, they didn't really take this into account and just assumed he was crazy
But, with context, he was loud and angry in understandable situations 1) Captured in Howe's and wanting to escape from madman Carver and 2) Just lost his girlfriend. But like you say, they didn't know Kenny and his loud personality. But no-one's going to be happy when they've just been captured and with the following events
Kenny wasn't lazy or looking for a fight. He was protesting about having to w… [view original content]
Of course, but Kenny must be in his 40s and isn't as physically fit as Jane
Fitness =/= Strength. And Kenny being well into his 40's (he's actually 47) doesn't change the fact that he's still stronger than Jane, a young adult, who doesn't seem to have much muscle on her arms from what we can see.
But surely Mike would push him off or hold him back, especially if he had the strength?
No because he didn't want a fight. And given Carver's rules, he probably didn't want to use force on Kenny so he wasn't the one blamed for a fight.
Of course, but Kenny must be in his 40s and isn't as physically fit as Jane, as I'll take a guess, so it wasn't a certain victory for Kenny … moreand men around the world. Anyways, biology was never my strongest
But surely Mike would push him off or hold him back, especially if he had the strength? We know he isn't a pacifist, he's manhandled Kenny afterwards and we know he has a certain amount of strength (the water). It seems strange that he wouldn't react somehow, especially as Kenny held him there for some time
I do think it makes sense. For one, Bonnie and betrayal go hand in hand.
She's a druggie, and a sheep so it's no surprise.
Mike obviously has sympathies with Arvo, with the way Kenny tickles him.
If someone threatened my group, nearly killing a baby and a child, I would shoot him on the spot. If we meet him in Season Three, then that will be the outcome, if the opportunity arises.
In that respect, I can totally understand where Kenny is coming from.
Okay... where to start. I'll just conclude this because this can go on for ever. Yes, Kenny is a different man now, a broken one. Yes he can't be fixed, but he can be patched over to a degree, where he is happy, the Kenny endings show this, he's smiling and he's happy and he's joking.
Yes he has a temper, but sometimes this temper isn't at all irrational, he's been captured, he's just lost his girlfriend, and he's having the group turn against him over Arvo and Wellington. Causing him to be stressed and then get angry. Kenny was wrong to shout at Clementine (and that's a normal at this time) but his reason for being pissed wasn't all that hard to understand.
Kenny is not a bad man. He has a temper, he gets angry. But he cares deeply for those he loves, Katjaa, Duck, Sarita, Alvin Jr, Clem. If any of them in danger, he's not a selfish person. He's not too far gone, he's toeing the line, but he's not there yet. And Mike and Bonnie are no glowing angels. Kenny would never leave a dying 11 year old in the snow, or rob a baby of much needed supplies.
I hate to break it to you... dude, but Kenny isn't all that irrational that you make him out to be, he certainly wasn't the worst person in the group of ragtag survivors in Ep5
The italics is hard to read, but he wasn't shouting directly AT her, just in her direction, to the person stood there.
You're ki… moredding, right? Are you that much of a Kenny apologist that you're trying to play off him yelling at her for what he thought was a good reason to?
And I think he would have blamed anyone for her death
That's not helping your case. The fact that Kenny would blame anyone for doing anything to help Sarita that was in their control for her death doesn't make him look any better.
Exactly, people react differently, just as I was saying, they didn't really take this into account and just assumed he was crazy
Me saying "people react differently" didn't mean "oh, he's just venting it's totally okay." How Kenny reacts isn't excusable. I was referring to other group members or other people in general and how they don't beat defenseless kids up and lose control of themselves to the point of … [view original content]
Well now I know. But Kenny took a slash to the chest and a poke in the eye, but he carried on going. Let's not debate if these details could win/lose a fight, all I originally said was Kenny has improved in the fighting department since S1. The examples where the big Jane fight and the smaller example of Mike, I wish I had more
S1 Kenny WOULD of had his arse handed to him in both situations, in fact, he probably wouldn't have dared get in them situations. Let's not drift away from the original statement that Kenny has become a better (but not a fantastic) fighter. Can we agree? Or do we have to agree to disagree?
Of course, but Kenny must be in his 40s and isn't as physically fit as Jane
Fitness =/= Strength. And Kenny being well into his 40's… more (he's actually 47) doesn't change the fact that he's still stronger than Jane, a young adult, who doesn't seem to have much muscle on her arms from what we can see.
But surely Mike would push him off or hold him back, especially if he had the strength?
No because he didn't want a fight. And given Carver's rules, he probably didn't want to use force on Kenny so he wasn't the one blamed for a fight.
Well now I know. But Kenny took a slash to the chest and a poke in the eye, but he carried on going. Let's not debate if these details could… more win/lose a fight, all I originally said was Kenny has improved in the fighting department since S1. The examples where the big Jane fight and the smaller example of Mike, I wish I had more
S1 Kenny WOULD of had his arse handed to him in both situations, in fact, he probably wouldn't have dared get in them situations. Let's not drift away from the original statement that Kenny has become a better (but not a fantastic) fighter. Can we agree? Or do we have to agree to disagree?
I had a response to this, but I clicked refresh. So, I'm just going to sum up what I said quickly.
I'll just conclude this because this can go on for ever.
It really can't, you're just pulling out everything you can to defend him.
Yes he can't be fixed, but he can be patched over to a degree, where he is happy, the Kenny endings show this, he's smiling and he's happy and he's joking.
He's only happy because he got what he wanted in the end. He spoke irrationally about it back at the unfinished house, not caring what others wanted.
Yes he has a temper, but sometimes this temper isn't at all irrational
What do you mean sometimes? It was irrational 95% of the time.
Kenny was wrong to shout at Clementine (and that's a normal at this time) but his reason for being pissed wasn't all that hard to understand.
You're kidding, right? So, you think Kenny blaming Clementine for "killing Sarita" (which he didn't even do) is understandable? Clearly he hated the fact that he wasn't there to help her in time and needed someone other than himself to blame. And he didn't even apologize for it until half way into episode 5.
He's not too far gone, he's toeing the line, but he's not there yet.
I hope you're trolling. I really hope you are.
And Mike and Bonnie are no glowing angels. Kenny would never leave a dying 11 year old in the snow, or rob a baby of much needed supplies.
I haven't defended the way Mike and Bonnie went about their plan. The reason for leaving is totally understandable, but the way they went about it is inexcusable.
I hate to break it to you... dude, but Kenny isn't all that irrational that you make him out to be
We did play the same Season 2, right? The way you're trying so hard excuse Kenny's actions really makes me believe you got a special edition of the game where Kenny wasn't a bag of dicks most of the time.
he certainly wasn't the worst person in the group of ragtag survivors in Ep5
So who was, then? Because Bonnie and Mike had been great up until Kenny started to get to them. Jane, although I do dislike her, wasn't as bad as Kenny. Luke was basically sweet as pie until he and Kenny argued. So, tell me, is Kenny really not the worst in the group in Episode 5 despite bringing out the worst in people?
Okay... where to start. I'll just conclude this because this can go on for ever. Yes, Kenny is a different man now, a broken one. Yes he can… more't be fixed, but he can be patched over to a degree, where he is happy, the Kenny endings show this, he's smiling and he's happy and he's joking.
Yes he has a temper, but sometimes this temper isn't at all irrational, he's been captured, he's just lost his girlfriend, and he's having the group turn against him over Arvo and Wellington. Causing him to be stressed and then get angry. Kenny was wrong to shout at Clementine (and that's a normal at this time) but his reason for being pissed wasn't all that hard to understand.
Kenny is not a bad man. He has a temper, he gets angry. But he cares deeply for those he loves, Katjaa, Duck, Sarita, Alvin Jr, Clem. If any of them in danger, he's not a selfish person. He's not too far gone, he's toeing the line, but he's not there yet. And Mike and Bonnie are no … [view original content]
Especially Mike, God I hated him in No Going Back. I found him trying to be the "good guy" annoying. I wish the option to shoot him was still available.
Especially Mike, God I hated him in No Going Back. I found him trying to be the "good guy" annoying. I wish the option to shoot him was still available.
They should've made them take one bag of supplies, no matter what. That way, they'd seem a bit more reasonable. Instead of it looking like t… morehey're leaving the rest of them to die by taking everything, they'd still leave enough behind to give the rest of them a chance
It wouldn't fix everything, sure, but it'd be a step in the right direction and make their actions a bit more forgivable, at least from my perspective
What doesnt make sense to me is why he would shoot Clementine instead of Kenny. I guess he had a comparable amount of rage toward both of them because of his sister, but I personally would have saved the bullet for him.
What doesnt make sense to me is why he would shoot Clementine instead of Kenny. I guess he had a comparable amount of rage toward both of them because of his sister, but I personally would have saved the bullet for him.
Anyone forgetting that he knocked down Carver with one punch?
Also he didn't get beat up by anyone except Vernon's group and Carver. Lee just pinned him, Molly just tripped him, and Larry is what? 6'4 300 pounds and has Military Training. I doubt people could beat him in a fight.
Anyone forgetting that he knocked down Carver with one punch?
Also he didn't get beat up by anyone except Vernon's group and Carver. Lee … morejust pinned him, Molly just tripped him, and Larry is what? 6'4 300 pounds and has Military Training. I doubt people could beat him in a fight.
Anyone forgetting that he knocked down Carver with one punch?
He never knocked him down, he made him stumble. Clearly he's not that … morestrong then.
Lee just pinned him
Lee almost chokes him out and blocks every attack (if you follow the stupidly easy QTE) Kenny tries to make on him.
Molly just tripped him
You say it like it's easy. It's quite hard to trip someone from behind you.
and Larry is what? 6'4 300 pounds and has Military Training.
He took Kenny down with one punch, but yeah, he obviously had an advantage over Kenny.
I'm not saying Kenny is piss weak, but he's definitely not a tank like this guy was implying.
Comments
I think Jane cared as much as she could. She wasnt an emotionally demonstrative person, but she didnt want to see the baby die. Thats how all of them acted toward AJ. They felt responsible for him because he was a helpless member of the group if not as strong an emotional attachment as Kenny and Clem. Otherwise, they probably would have just abandoned him. I think thats enough. He was, after all, barely a week old.
My point exactly. He was dangerously unstable imo.
More like selfish.
Lol at the people liking Jane fans statuses.
To be fair if i cared enough about someone and thought someone had killed them, i'd be as angry as Kenny was with Jane
Well i'd have thought that about Jane except near the start of episode 4 when she was talking to Rebecca she said "what are you going to do with it when its born" and Rebecca was offended because Jane implied she should get rid of the baby when born and i thought the same as Rebecca. In my opinion she cared enough about the baby but i think she'd abandon AJ if Clem wasn't around
What do you mean by that? I dont categorize myself as a "Jane fan". I see her as a character who was trying to do her best, and I feel like she genuinely cared for Clementine. But im not at the oppositve end of the Jane vs Kenny war.
In a way like the Rictatorship displayed from the comic and show? It looked to me that Kenny was only trying to take leadership of the group by leading them to the safest area he knew of, Which was probably Wellington. Jane wanted to back back track to Howe's where herds regularly visit and after all the trouble they went through escaping and then Mike wanted to go way down to Texas for some Chili and horses I guess. Kenny might of tried to rudely take charge of the group towards the end but he was far from becoming something akin to Carver I believe, contrary to what the game wanted to influence all to believe.
Sorry should have said "Jane fans liking your statuses"
Not only it was out-of-character, it was completely unnecessary and had ended up showing how biased the writers were with Kenny's role in Episode 5. There wasn't a single character who were allow to rationally disagree with Kenny and point the flaws in his plan, without being needlessly demonized in order to present Kenny as in the right.
Well said. More people are realizing how incredibly biased the writers in season 2 were towards Kenny.
It was a freedom to do whatever they wanted. They knew that staying with Kenny meant going to Wellington because he was so hellbent on making sure it wasn't any other way.
The only thing I'll blame Kenny for after losing Sarita is his choice to take it out on Clementine. After all, it was part of his plan to escape through the herd. (Luke's plan was to get him a radio and let him find a clear opening for them to dash through).
You can't brush off having emotions and feelings just because it's the apocalypse. Sure, they've endured worse both physically and mentally, but it's clearly evident that people still have feelings towards certain things being said. Do you really think Kenny could handle "a few words" about his family? He's shown that he can't.
Honestly, I don't even think Clementine was as strong in keeping him going than AJ was. In Episode 5, if you let Kenny kill Jane and then hold a gun up to Kenny (shoot Kenny option), in his mind thinking AJ is dead, he tells Clem to do it. Not kidding, those are his exact words. He didn't see Clementine as his beacon of hope, he saw Clementine as a string of the past. She reminded him of Lee and most likely his family from his days back at the motor inn.
Irrelevant.
Jane never even stated that she killed AJ. The way Jane was acting, she implied it was an accident or was beyond her control to save him. Yet Kenny still attacked her instead of even confirming what happened. Again, like Clementine with Sarita, Kenny was looking for someone to take his anger out on.
Fair enough, Kenny wanted to go to Wellington, staying or going was a fair decision, handled all wrong of course.
I think I mentioned this before, but Kenny wasn't having a go at Clementine, he was just shouting at her. He'd have done the same if Luke, Bonnie, Mike, etc had come over. Clem sadly was the first there and Kenny needed to shout, the rest is history. Yeah, you could say he needs to control his temper and shouting at a little girl is wrong, but you do have to understand that he's going through one of the worse moments in his life, his rational mind isn't going to be working as it should.
They have got feelings, it'd be a boring game if they didn't, but they should know when someone's just lost someone they love, their behaviour is going to be erratic, random, unpredictable. In Kenny's case, anger, they should know just to take what he says with a pinch of salt. Besides, he was only really shouty and angry when under stress. Mike + Bonnie never knew him in early S1 or the ski lodge, where he was relaxed and happy and not that bad of a guy. They never gave him a chance
Men are physically stronger than most women. Biology, bud.
The only reason why that happened it because Mike didn't want to fight back. He even states that he just wanted to get the job done, clearly he didn't want a fight and didn't resist when Kenny "pinned" him against the wall. He used his words ("Get your hand off of me!") instead of using his hands.
Of course, but Kenny must be in his 40s and isn't as physically fit as Jane, as I'll take a guess, so it wasn't a certain victory for Kenny and men around the world. Anyways, biology was never my strongest
But surely Mike would push him off or hold him back, especially if he had the strength? We know he isn't a pacifist, he's manhandled Kenny afterwards and we know he has a certain amount of strength (the water). It seems strange that he wouldn't react somehow, especially as Kenny held him there for some time
Well, for one, they're literally the same thing.
Secondly, this isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about him blaming Clementine for Sarita's death, not yelling at her for approaching him.
See, there's this thing called diversity. Basically, not everyone copes the same way as everyone else.
Not everyone knew Kenny as well as Clementine did. His behaviour like that isn't normal anyway. To be loud and angry all the time, it isn't healthy. That's why people thought he was going crazy.
It's not about giving him a chance, they've seen how Kenny acts. He tried to fight with Mike at Howe's just because he didn't want to do the job and Mike did. Mike's got that first impression printed in his mind because of that.
The italics is hard to read, but he wasn't shouting directly AT her, just in her direction, to the person stood there. It's hard to explain via words, sorry. And I think he would have blamed anyone for her death, depending on what you did, i.e if you cut her arm off, it was a little reckless. I'll agree it was harsh and wrong, but he didn't mean it, and he realised this and apologised when he came to his senses
Exactly, people react differently, just as I was saying, they didn't really take this into account and just assumed he was crazy
But, with context, he was loud and angry in understandable situations 1) Captured in Howe's and wanting to escape from madman Carver and 2) Just lost his girlfriend. But like you say, they didn't know Kenny and his loud personality. But no-one's going to be happy when they've just been captured and with the following events
Kenny wasn't lazy or looking for a fight. He was protesting about having to work for his captors. Mike must've said he should get on with his work and whatever else. And it escalated there. An unfair impression to make of Kenny but you make a fair point, although Mike (and Bonnie) only ever saw the angry side to Kenny and unfairly judged him on that, they must know that they wasn't watching the real, normal Kenny
You're kidding, right? Are you that much of a Kenny apologist that you're trying to play off him yelling at her for what he thought was a good reason to?
That's not helping your case. The fact that Kenny would blame anyone for doing anything to help Sarita that was in their control for her death doesn't make him look any better.
Me saying "people react differently" didn't mean "oh, he's just venting it's totally okay." How Kenny reacts isn't excusable. I was referring to other group members or other people in general and how they don't beat defenseless kids up and lose control of themselves to the point of accidentally hurting the ones they love. Kenny is unhealthily dangerous to himself and those around him, he shouldn't even be looking after Clementine or the baby.
The only reason why this one was understandable was because he knew that it meant his life and his girlfriend's life was at risk.
And because Mike possibly suggested he get on with his work gives Kenny a reason to get violent? That doesn't seem like an unfair impression to me.
Kenny has shown a brighter side to himself in the presence of both Mike and Bonnie, and even Jane. For example, when the baby was born. His face lit up, he was happy. Everyone was. But the fact that it was rare to see Kenny happy since, as you said, Mike and Bonnie seemed to mostly see a negative side of Kenny, still isn't helping the fact that he's unstable. And gives them a reason to get away.
Hate to break it to you, kid, but the Kenny you see now is the normal Kenny. People's demons overcome them and wash away the "old" version of them. Kenny was just too far gone, you couldn't fix him. Mike and Bonnie realized that and dashed.
Fitness =/= Strength. And Kenny being well into his 40's (he's actually 47) doesn't change the fact that he's still stronger than Jane, a young adult, who doesn't seem to have much muscle on her arms from what we can see.
No because he didn't want a fight. And given Carver's rules, he probably didn't want to use force on Kenny so he wasn't the one blamed for a fight.
I do think it makes sense. For one, Bonnie and betrayal go hand in hand.
She's a druggie, and a sheep so it's no surprise.
Mike obviously has sympathies with Arvo, with the way Kenny tickles him.
If someone threatened my group, nearly killing a baby and a child, I would shoot him on the spot. If we meet him in Season Three, then that will be the outcome, if the opportunity arises.
In that respect, I can totally understand where Kenny is coming from.
What didn't make sense is that Mike and Bonnie were defending and trusting Arvo who caused the ambush which almost got them killed.
Okay... where to start. I'll just conclude this because this can go on for ever. Yes, Kenny is a different man now, a broken one. Yes he can't be fixed, but he can be patched over to a degree, where he is happy, the Kenny endings show this, he's smiling and he's happy and he's joking.
Yes he has a temper, but sometimes this temper isn't at all irrational, he's been captured, he's just lost his girlfriend, and he's having the group turn against him over Arvo and Wellington. Causing him to be stressed and then get angry. Kenny was wrong to shout at Clementine (and that's a normal at this time) but his reason for being pissed wasn't all that hard to understand.
Kenny is not a bad man. He has a temper, he gets angry. But he cares deeply for those he loves, Katjaa, Duck, Sarita, Alvin Jr, Clem. If any of them in danger, he's not a selfish person. He's not too far gone, he's toeing the line, but he's not there yet. And Mike and Bonnie are no glowing angels. Kenny would never leave a dying 11 year old in the snow, or rob a baby of much needed supplies.
I hate to break it to you... dude, but Kenny isn't all that irrational that you make him out to be, he certainly wasn't the worst person in the group of ragtag survivors in Ep5
Well now I know. But Kenny took a slash to the chest and a poke in the eye, but he carried on going. Let's not debate if these details could win/lose a fight, all I originally said was Kenny has improved in the fighting department since S1. The examples where the big Jane fight and the smaller example of Mike, I wish I had more
S1 Kenny WOULD of had his arse handed to him in both situations, in fact, he probably wouldn't have dared get in them situations. Let's not drift away from the original statement that Kenny has become a better (but not a fantastic) fighter. Can we agree? Or do we have to agree to disagree?
Agree to disagree.
I had a response to this, but I clicked refresh. So, I'm just going to sum up what I said quickly.
It really can't, you're just pulling out everything you can to defend him.
He's only happy because he got what he wanted in the end. He spoke irrationally about it back at the unfinished house, not caring what others wanted.
What do you mean sometimes? It was irrational 95% of the time.
You're kidding, right? So, you think Kenny blaming Clementine for "killing Sarita" (which he didn't even do) is understandable? Clearly he hated the fact that he wasn't there to help her in time and needed someone other than himself to blame. And he didn't even apologize for it until half way into episode 5.
I hope you're trolling. I really hope you are.
I haven't defended the way Mike and Bonnie went about their plan. The reason for leaving is totally understandable, but the way they went about it is inexcusable.
We did play the same Season 2, right? The way you're trying so hard excuse Kenny's actions really makes me believe you got a special edition of the game where Kenny wasn't a bag of dicks most of the time.
So who was, then? Because Bonnie and Mike had been great up until Kenny started to get to them. Jane, although I do dislike her, wasn't as bad as Kenny. Luke was basically sweet as pie until he and Kenny argued. So, tell me, is Kenny really not the worst in the group in Episode 5 despite bringing out the worst in people?
Especially Mike, God I hated him in No Going Back. I found him trying to be the "good guy" annoying. I wish the option to shoot him was still available.
Exactly, how is going with Mike or not an option? It's not worth it. Shooting him or not made more sense.
Perhaps if Bonnie is pissed at Clementine she takes the other Bag, but if she isn't she tells Mike she doesn't want to take the other Bag?
I guess they have plans for him, I can't wait to get revenge on Arvo.
There is no way I'm gonna let that piece of shit Arvo live, not after what he did to my Clementine.
Lol, I just hate how he shoots you no matter what you do. He obviously wanted Clem dead from the start.
What doesnt make sense to me is why he would shoot Clementine instead of Kenny. I guess he had a comparable amount of rage toward both of them because of his sister, but I personally would have saved the bullet for him.
He shot Clem because he thinks she killed his sister alive which is really stupid.
You mean, because he didnt know she was already dead?
In Arvo's eyes, he only saw Clementine kill Natasha as she tried to crawl away. I don't believe he knew she was a walker.
Manages to avoid being zombie food but is cursed with a severe case of blue balls
Anyone forgetting that he knocked down Carver with one punch?
Also he didn't get beat up by anyone except Vernon's group and Carver. Lee just pinned him, Molly just tripped him, and Larry is what? 6'4 300 pounds and has Military Training. I doubt people could beat him in a fight.
He never knocked him down, he made him stumble. Clearly he's not that strong then.
Lee almost chokes him out and blocks every attack (if you follow the stupidly easy QTE) Kenny tries to make on him.
You say it like it's easy. It's quite hard to trip someone from behind you.
He took Kenny down with one punch, but yeah, he obviously had an advantage over Kenny.
I'm not saying Kenny is piss weak, but he's definitely not a tank like this guy was implying.
if bonnie is dead its stupid for mike to abandon Clementine. who will he bang without bonnie and clem? arvo?
DISCLAIMER: I never said nor implied, that Kenny was a tank. Just that he had improved in hand-to-hand combat from S1