That was literally one of the few things Clem had to do when it comes to escaping Carver's camp. It's not like she was switching from place to place. Kenny, Luke, Mike, Jane and Bonnie were all helping. I don't know why you keep acting like we didn't get any help at all in S2, yet, fail to realize whatever happened in the second season was merely a continuation of the previous game. Again, it really isn't much more realistic. I gave you the Lilly example. That was nothing more than an excuse for us to do something instead of sitting around drawing with Clementine. "Realistically", why should Lilly want her nemesis and dad killing rival doing the work for her? Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me.
It didn't took me two full seasons to realize the burden always, falls on the protagonist.
But i think the way they wrote those scene's whe… morere, way more reallistic playing as Lee, then playing as Clementine.
Let me give you an, example when you go out off the pharmacy in season 1 you don't go alone, Also Glenn and Carley help Lee on his mission of saving the girl from the hotel.
As Clementine, you play as a 11-year old child, who they lift up to a roof, without any help of other characters while being on the roof and searching for the walkie-talkie or the PA system.
Also, I have nothing against playing as Clementine like i said in a previous post in this topic, because i actually enjoyed playing ep1 of S2.
But unreallistic scene's like the escape from Carver's camp and the wind-turbine scene where a big reason, why i didn't enjoy playing the rest of the episodes.
Anyway, i just wanted to post this because i noticed i didn't explain well, in my posts yesterday why i think playing as Lee made more sense to me.
Well i think the example you gave me, about Lilly.
Actually did make sense, cause her father was just killed by Kenny a few days before.
So she wasn't up to finding out who stole the supplies, so she asked Lee for help.
And in other people's game people who helped Kenny kill Larry.
Lee searched for the stolen supplies, because I think he feels guilty for helping Kenny kill Larry.
And why Lilly would want her nemesis in this case, help her look for the missing-supplies.
Because that she knows Lee isn't the one stealing the supplies, because he has to look out for Clementine.
In my opinion, a grown-up looking for someone that is stealing supplies.
Is a very different situation then, a 11-year old child roaming rooftops, to help a group of adult people escape.
Also like i said before i respect your opinion
But i think this is a disscusion we will not agree on
That was literally one of the few things Clem had to do when it comes to escaping Carver's camp. It's not like she was switching from place … moreto place. Kenny, Luke, Mike, Jane and Bonnie were all helping. I don't know why you keep acting like we didn't get any help at all in S2, yet, fail to realize whatever happened in the second season was merely a continuation of the previous game. Again, it really isn't much more realistic. I gave you the Lilly example. That was nothing more than an excuse for us to do something instead of sitting around drawing with Clementine. "Realistically", why should Lilly want her nemesis and dad killing rival doing the work for her? Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me.
While at Carver's, she was one of the few people who were mentally or physically up for the task. Jane and Mike? I didn't know these fuckers. Kenny? No, thanks. (…) Rebecca, Sarah, Sarita? Uhh… I'll pass.
The thing is, if the game was actually realistic, nobody would care who the kid thinks is up for task, as who isn't. The player shouldn't really have much say about who does what when playing as an eleven-year-old. No matter what you say, it's still unrealistic for Clementine to sneak into the stock room instead of, say, Jane, Mike, Carlos, Sarita, anyone else!
Problem is, in S1 it was the exact same thing with Lee and the only reason no one complains is because he was a grown up, as "unrealistic" a… mores him doing everything still was. Besides, if anyone expected TTG to do a complete makeover on how they make their games just because we where controlling a younger character they really didn't think that through. There's a difference between wanting more character development and actually wanting to sit around the whole game. On top of that, I don't think it's that stupid, really. While at Carver's, she was one of the few people who were mentally or physically up for the task. Jane and Mike? I didn't know these fuckers. Kenny? No, thanks. Nick was like a placeholder at that point. Carlos was gone most of the episode. Rebecca, Sarah, Sarita? Uhh. . I'll pass. Yeah, I would probably trust Clem, too.
I do respect your opinion, though. Nice getting some feedback!
Lilly was stable enough to notice supplies were missing. In response to your other point, she could have asked Carley, Ben or even Katjaa herself for help if she really didn't think she was up to the task at hand. By that point she hated Lee so much that she was willing to let him die back at that farm, yet, and episode later she's suddenly running back to Lee for help? I mean, really, it wasn't a murder case. The investigation took Lee about 10 minutes and I'm sure she could have handled that alright. Why is it so impossible to believe that Lee might had been the one hiding them to at some point run away with Kenny (Clem, Katjaa and Duck included) and leave an over the edge Lilly alone? She asks for help regardless because the PLOT demands it.
Well i think the example you gave me, about Lilly.
Actually did make sense, cause her father was just killed by Kenny a few days before.
S… moreo she wasn't up to finding out who stole the supplies, so she asked Lee for help.
And in other people's game people who helped Kenny kill Larry.
Lee searched for the stolen supplies, because I think he feels guilty for helping Kenny kill Larry.
And why Lilly would want her nemesis in this case, help her look for the missing-supplies.
Because that she knows Lee isn't the one stealing the supplies, because he has to look out for Clementine.
In my opinion, a grown-up looking for someone that is stealing supplies.
Is a very different situation then, a 11-year old child roaming rooftops, to help a group of adult people escape.
Also like i said before i respect your opinion
But i think this is a disscusion we will not agree on
Lilly was stable enough to notice supplies were missing. In response to your other point, she could have asked Carley, Ben or even Katjaa he… morerself for help if she really didn't think she was up to the task at hand. By that point she hated Lee so much that she was willing to let him die back at that farm, yet, and episode later she's suddenly running back to Lee for help? I mean, really, it wasn't a murder case. The investigation took Lee about 10 minutes and I'm sure she could have handled that alright. Why is it so impossible to believe that Lee might had been the one hiding them to at some point run away with Kenny (Clem, Katjaa and Duck included) and leave an over the edge Lilly alone? She asks for help regardless because the PLOT demands it.
Unrealistic how? Because an adult should have done it? So, as players, what were we supposed to do for the last 30 minutes of the episode? You people fail to realize that in order for Telltale to give us a decent episode (gameplay wise) there are always going to be some gaps in the story. As of right know, TTG are about 20% gameplay and you want to eliminate that too? No matter what you say, Clementine can't just simply stand back and watch everything happen. Anyone who was played games knows that's not a PC's job.
When did Clem decide she was going to do it, though? It was the others who thought she should be the one to go so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
While at Carver's, she was one of the few people who were mentally or physically up for the task. Jane and Mike? I didn't know these fuckers… more. Kenny? No, thanks. (…) Rebecca, Sarah, Sarita? Uhh… I'll pass.
The thing is, if the game was actually realistic, nobody would care who the kid thinks is up for task, as who isn't. The player shouldn't really have much say about who does what when playing as an eleven-year-old. No matter what you say, it's still unrealistic for Clementine to sneak into the stock room instead of, say, Jane, Mike, Carlos, Sarita, anyone else!
Alright you made a good point there
But i still think the situation because the plot demands it, in that case.
Is still not so over the top, as some scene's in season 2.
But i guess we all see, things differently
Well, season 2 was mostly Clementine walking around the woods. lol! I agree though. The characters weren't as well thought out, and there were a lot of loose ends. Were Rebecca and Carver in a relationship or did he force himself on her? Where was Mike from? There's been speculation he was one of the scavengers that attacked Christa, but the game doesn't tell us that or anything about him. How did the rest of the cabin group end up with Carver? Was Jane captured? The lack of backstory and details made the majority of the characters difficult to connect with. I was less affected by Sarah's and Luke's death than Doug's...someone who wasn't with us nearly as long. I wish 400 days was longer. Maybe an actual separately released game inside of a DLC episode.
The main point of the first comment I made was that your opinion isn't the absolute reality, and that just because you didn't trust Mike, Jane, etc. to do the job, doesn't mean that having them do it would've been a bad writing decision. Didn't want to put it bluntly so that I wasn't perceived as outright rude.
Unrealistic how? Because an adult should have done it?
Because nobody had any objections, other than Mike when deciding who should take the walkie-talkie to Luke. That's far from what would happen in reality.
So, as players, what were we supposed to do for the last 30 minutes of the episode?
I don't know, explore Howe's Hardware? Do more chores, other than only loading two guns in the entire day and picking some berries? Get character development for Rebecca, Carlos, Nick and even Kenny?
You people
Nice generalization.
You people fail to realize that in order for Telltale to give us a decent episode (gameplay wise) there are always going to be some gaps in the story. As of right know, TTG are about 20% gameplay and you want to eliminate that too?
Well, who determines what a good episode game-wise looks like? I don't "fail to realize" something just because my opinion differs from yours. I would've been okay if the episode didn't have as many absurd aspects as Clementine sneaking twice was.
No matter what you say, Clementine can't just simply stand back and watch everything happen. Anyone who was played games knows that's not a PC's job.
I've never said that.
When did Clem decide she was going to do it, though? It was the others who thought she should be the one to go so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
I'm talking about the unrealism of that same thing. That, and the fact that nobody had anything to say about the kid being the one who carried out the plan twice, which could easily lead it to sink if Clementine was discovered. Even Mike who later refutes didn't say anything the first two times.
Unrealistic how? Because an adult should have done it? So, as players, what were we supposed to do for the last 30 minutes of the episode? Y… moreou people fail to realize that in order for Telltale to give us a decent episode (gameplay wise) there are always going to be some gaps in the story. As of right know, TTG are about 20% gameplay and you want to eliminate that too? No matter what you say, Clementine can't just simply stand back and watch everything happen. Anyone who was played games knows that's not a PC's job.
When did Clem decide she was going to do it, though? It was the others who thought she should be the one to go so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Why are you so sure that it wouldn't go that way in reality? Have you ever been in that position? Everyone figured she was the best person for the job and she agreed. She's capable of taking care of babies, get in the middle of fights, shoot it out with Russians, but somehow getting a walkie talkie is the ultimate life test? Besides, she was given directions and Clementine has been through enough to know how to not get caught.
ALL we did throughout the episode was explore and do chores. Now, if you weren't happy with the material we were given that's a completely different problem.
I determine it for myself. I'm speaking from my perspective. If for you the perfect Walking Dead game is sitting around talking and doing chores for an hour and half, suit yourself. That's simply your preference, but just because the game didn't live up to your own personal expectations of what it should have been doesn't mean it was bad.
Again, who exactly did you want carrying out the plan? Beaten up Luke? One eyed Kenny? And it makes total sense why neither Jane nor Mike were put in charge. I remember Kenny saying he didn't even know Mike which was nothing short of the truth. I'm living under a psycho's roof. I wouldn't put my life in the hands of strangers, either. Like Chuck said in S1, it doesn't matter what you are anymore, it's about your capabilities. Sadly, Clem seems smarter than half the people we come across.
I think your last point is addressed in the above paragraph as well.
The main point of the first comment I made was that your opinion isn't the absolute reality, and that just because you didn't trust Mike, Ja… morene, etc. to do the job, doesn't mean that having them do it would've been a bad writing decision. Didn't want to put it bluntly so that I wasn't perceived as outright rude.
Unrealistic how? Because an adult should have done it?
Because nobody had any objections, other than Mike when deciding who should take the walkie-talkie to Luke. That's far from what would happen in reality.
So, as players, what were we supposed to do for the last 30 minutes of the episode?
I don't know, explore Howe's Hardware? Do more chores, other than only loading two guns in the entire day and picking some berries? Get character development for Rebecca, Carlos, Nick and even Kenny?
You people
Nice generalization.
You people fail to realize that in order for Telltale to give us a dec… [view original content]
More like immersion breaking. 5 or I don't know how many people listening to a kid sure is realistic. OF COURSE SHE IS MORE WISER AND THE ONE THAT IS ABLE TO DEFEND THE WHOLE GROUP THAN AN ADULT! Come on guys, get out of here -__-
I respectfully disagree. I actually loved S2, for the reason you didn't. Playing as Clementine was awesome, imo, and I really liked the story that was S2. The intelligence, bravery, and humanity shown by Clementine was a thing to behold.
Why are you so sure that it wouldn't go that way in reality? Have you ever been in that position? Everyone figured she was the best person for the job and she agreed. (…) Besides, she was given directions and Clementine has been through enough to know how to not get caught.
Those are fair points; I had honestly forgotten that Rebecca gave her direction both times. My point isn't that Clementine being able to do those things is unrealistic, and I apologize if it has come out that way. I'm just not buying that a group of adults who barely know anything about her would trust her enough to do that. That's what bugs me out. We could compare it to the meat locker scene in "Starved For Help" when she crawls through the air ventilation system. In that instance though, she indeed was the only one who could fit, while in "In Harm's Way" literally anybody in shape could've been sent, because size wasn't a problem.
She's capable of taking care of babies, get in the middle of fights, shoot it out with Russians, but somehow getting a walkie talkie is the ultimate life test?
That's all kind of off-reality in my opinion, sans being capable of taking care of a baby. I find that last aspect somewhat more believable.
ALL we did throughout the episode was explore and do chores. Now, if you weren't happy with the material we were given that's a completely different problem.
No, I'm happy with the episode, and I was even happier when I hadn't thought it through. I was rather talking about helping move boxes, organizing food cans, keeping watch, that sort of chores. I'm happy with those that Clementine had—loading guns and doing gardening or whatever—but I was hoping for it to really be hard work, as Carver put it. I guess it just wasn't what the preview, trailer and game itself led me to believe.
I determine it for myself. I'm speaking from my perspective. If for you the perfect Walking Dead game is sitting around talking and doing chores for an hour and half, suit yourself. That's simply your preference, but just because the game didn't live up to your own personal expectations of what it should have been doesn't mean it was bad.
I don't think it was a bad episode. I wished for the group to be at Howe's for longer, so that we could really get involved with the residents there. The chores section that I mentioned was only a means of doing so, but literally anything would've been fine by me. Even when Clementine gave a worried look at Hank's general direction made me content, because I supposed she recognized him as the guard at the roof.
Again, who exactly did you want carrying out the plan?
I will be assuming that we're talking about both plans.
Beaten up Luke? One eyed Kenny? And it makes total sense why neither Jane nor Mike were put in charge. I remember Kenny saying he didn't even know Mike which was nothing short of the truth. I'm living under a psycho's roof. I wouldn't put my life in the hands of strangers, either.
Carlos or Sarita, if you didn't really want to depend on these strangers, but I now get why people wouldn't trust neither of the four. Thank you for this!
Man, it would've been neat if Sarita had volunteered to carry out the plan of getting the walkie-talkies. The player could then say that they'll do it themselves, or that it's better for an adult to do it. That would've given Sarita a greater degree of relevance in "In Harm's Way," which then resulted to be the episode where she is bitten.
Like Chuck said in S1, it doesn't matter what you are anymore, it's about your capabilities. Sadly, Clem seems smarter than half the people we come across.
Why are you so sure that it wouldn't go that way in reality? Have you ever been in that position? Everyone figured she was the best person f… moreor the job and she agreed. She's capable of taking care of babies, get in the middle of fights, shoot it out with Russians, but somehow getting a walkie talkie is the ultimate life test? Besides, she was given directions and Clementine has been through enough to know how to not get caught.
ALL we did throughout the episode was explore and do chores. Now, if you weren't happy with the material we were given that's a completely different problem.
I determine it for myself. I'm speaking from my perspective. If for you the perfect Walking Dead game is sitting around talking and doing chores for an hour and half, suit yourself. That's simply your preference, but just because the game didn't live up to your own personal expectations of what it should have been doesn't mean it was bad.
Again, who exactl… [view original content]
That's a good point. I admitted before that I do see where you're coming from, but I'm also looking at it from Telltale's point of view. As much as we all want puzzles and character development, we have to understand it's their job to try and please as many fans as they can and a game with almost no gameplay is bound to get criticism from those who favor it. Like I pointed out before, that's the reason why sometimes Clementine finds herself doing quite a lot this season.
Doing everything you just mentioned would have been fine, but then it meant Clementine was doing almost nothing to advance the story. Is it really a good game if the secondary characters do all the work? There's a difference between organizing cans and getting walkie talkies to escape Carver's camp. The disparity in importance is quite obvious.
I agree that Sarita was probably a decent choice, but do you really see a character like her just stepping up and taking over? Because I don't. And Carlos was gone most of the episode and it wouldn't had been a good idea. What if they came looking for him in the middle of the night?
Nice to have some healthy back and forth. Very good points on both sides.
Why are you so sure that it wouldn't go that way in reality? Have you ever been in that position? Everyone figured she was the best person f… moreor the job and she agreed. (…) Besides, she was given directions and Clementine has been through enough to know how to not get caught.
Those are fair points; I had honestly forgotten that Rebecca gave her direction both times. My point isn't that Clementine being able to do those things is unrealistic, and I apologize if it has come out that way. I'm just not buying that a group of adults who barely know anything about her would trust her enough to do that. That's what bugs me out. We could compare it to the meat locker scene in "Starved For Help" when she crawls through the air ventilation system. In that instance though, she indeed was the only one who could fit, while in "In Harm's Way" literally anybody in shape could've been sent, because size wasn't a problem.
She's capable of taking c… [view original content]
More like immersion breaking. 5 or I don't know how many people listening to a kid sure is realistic. OF COURSE SHE IS MORE WISER AND THE ONE THAT IS ABLE TO DEFEND THE WHOLE GROUP THAN AN ADULT! Come on guys, get out of here -__-
Same! Thank you for this conversation, @SaltLick305. I'm walking out of here looking at Season 2 in a different light, because like you said, as much as I wanted it to be different in some aspects, it probably would've caused it to be rated—in my opinion grossly and unfairly—lower.
Ah… then, from what I've gathered, isn't this forum such a vocal minority. Most opinions that I've read say that they expected Howe's to be a major location.
That's a good point. I admitted before that I do see where you're coming from, but I'm also looking at it from Telltale's point of view. As … moremuch as we all want puzzles and character development, we have to understand it's their job to try and please as many fans as they can and a game with almost no gameplay is bound to get criticism from those who favor it. Like I pointed out before, that's the reason why sometimes Clementine finds herself doing quite a lot this season.
Doing everything you just mentioned would have been fine, but then it meant Clementine was doing almost nothing to advance the story. Is it really a good game if the secondary characters do all the work? There's a difference between organizing cans and getting walkie talkies to escape Carver's camp. The disparity in importance is quite obvious.
I agree that Sarita was probably a decent choice, but do you really see a character like her just stepping up and taking over? … [view original content]
Thank you too! And I feel the same way. Your points were all valid and made me understand more why these things bothered you. Hopefully TTG can achieve both logical sense and decent gameplay in their upcoming games.
I did, too. I've heard people say they had a dispute with Carver's voice actor. Who knows.
Same! Thank you for this conversation, @SaltLick305. I'm walking out of here looking at Season 2 in a different light, because like you said… more, as much as I wanted it to be different in some aspects, it probably would've caused it to be rated—in my opinion grossly and unfairly—lower.
Ah… then, from what I've gathered, isn't this forum such a vocal minority. Most opinions that I've read say that they expected Howe's to be a major location.
Oh, ok. Well she was pretty wise. Wiser than the Cabin group, who were safe at Carver's camp for who knows how long. While Clem was "out" during that time.
It was from Clem's perspective, and she did several things that were easier for a small person to do. And the group also clearly trusted her and knew she was capable. The whole point of Clementine is that she's NOT just a helpless kid. She's probably more ready for this world than most everyone else. It just seems you don't like that part of her character, but that's her. Sorry. It's not lazy writing just because a few people don't like it.
I think, Season 2 started off with a great first episode that was really on par with season 1.
But the episode's after that, just felt rush… moreed to me, and contained allot of bad writing the way how the other characters threated a child.
Like always wanting Clementine to solve everything, escaping Carver's camp for example,i think was really poor writing. Cause if that rope was able to not break when Clementine was being lift up to the roof.
It would have been perfectly fine to hold someone like Jane for example and let her be the one being lift up to the roof cause that would have made allot more sense.
And turning off a wind-turbine while there where three adults, standing next to her.
I didn't have a problem with playing as a child instead of a adult as some other people have, for me it was the fact.
That they in my opinion really wrote unreallistic situations concerning what the adult character's expected her to do.
Also i didn't li… [view original content]
I liked it. Not sure what I'd call it the weakest, though. I mean yeah, I don't think it was as good as S1, but I don't think it was that ba… mored, either. There's a rather vocal amount of people that seem to act like S2 is an absolute mockery of everything S1 stood for, which I honestly think is a complete and utter overreaction. And I'm almost certain that those people are just a vocal minority. S2 is still held in good standing just about everywhere I've looked. Most people that have done walkthroughs/LP's of it liked it and/or had a positive opinion of it, and most user reviews across the net (Steam, Metacritic, App Store, etc etc) are generally positive. The common opinion of S2 in general (or basically, everywhere that isn't this forum for whatever reason) is "It's a good game. Not as great as S1, but still good" and most of the criticisms tend to be related to characters and choices in particular.
If this forum was to be believed, S2 sho… [view original content]
I would wager to guess that most people that don't like Season 2 try to come up with reasons to not like it, but their real reason is because Luke died.
The season simply degraded into obscurity once they made Clem echo Kenny's stupid sub-plot of saving a baby that would've realistically died… more during childbirth and had no connection to her or her internal struggle, which by the way was actual fairly interesting and needed no detour.
I find that the last episode was probably the single most lacking experience I've had in a game in a long time. The blatant "safe" choices that TT made is almost sickening. A Quentin Tarantino film without the deaths or cussing, a GTA game where you play as a soup kitchen volunteer, a stale understated step so far in the wrong direction, I'm truly surprised the developers didn't trip up and make Clementine into a white redneck with a beard and an eyepatch and call her fucking Clenny or some shit.
Ugh, just thinking about No Going Back makes me infuriated... If you'll excuse me, I'm going back to play Doom and rid my memory of that god awful episode.
I enjoyed it, played both seasons at least 5 or 6 times, the only thing I didn't like was Clem being treated like an adult despite her age (hey I understand it's 2+ years in the apocalypse but still) and at some point it gets ridiculous: Clem shut this turbine down because we all have no idea how to do it, Clem go steal some walkie-talkies then go turn on a PA system in a psycho guy's office who can kill you without any remorse, Clem cut a wire so all the deck drops down...etc, I understand she's the PC but she's still a 11 years old girl.
Even with it's flaws I still like S2 as much as S1, hope S3 does't have so many writers as S2 in order for the story to improve
k I was exaggerating. I was referring about tasks that you can say you don't have to do but you still have to such as in Episode 4 where Bonnie tells Clementine to talk to Kenny even though Clementine could say that she doesn't want to....
As I have mentioned in the past, I did enjoy the first half of Season 2 and found it to be comparable to the first Season of TWD, but come the second half and the quality definitely felt to me that it declined to the point where it wasn't enjoyable at all.
Though what I do believe is to be the weakest Telltale's Walking Dead story is the Michonne series by far, as it was merely a watered-down Season 2 and offered nothing new to the series, or even a taste of what to expect for Season 3.
I actually liked 400 Days better than either season. I just wish it had been longer. Playing as different characters made it fresh, and it was interesting in that it also tie up some loose ends from Season 1 and gave a general idea of the timeline of events. I do wish Bonnie's backstory had been a bit more in-depth and meaningful though. We still know very little about her other than she used to have a drug problem.
I really do not agree I loved season 1 and 2 also Michonne
I wasnt that crazy about 400 days it was a joke and out of it I only like Bonnie Shel
and Becca I did not care for the rest
Comments
That was literally one of the few things Clem had to do when it comes to escaping Carver's camp. It's not like she was switching from place to place. Kenny, Luke, Mike, Jane and Bonnie were all helping. I don't know why you keep acting like we didn't get any help at all in S2, yet, fail to realize whatever happened in the second season was merely a continuation of the previous game. Again, it really isn't much more realistic. I gave you the Lilly example. That was nothing more than an excuse for us to do something instead of sitting around drawing with Clementine. "Realistically", why should Lilly want her nemesis and dad killing rival doing the work for her? Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me.
Season 2 was bad the moment Clementine was told to do tasks.
Well i think the example you gave me, about Lilly.
Actually did make sense, cause her father was just killed by Kenny a few days before.
So she wasn't up to finding out who stole the supplies, so she asked Lee for help.
And in other people's game people who helped Kenny kill Larry.
Lee searched for the stolen supplies, because I think he feels guilty for helping Kenny kill Larry.
And why Lilly would want her nemesis in this case, help her look for the missing-supplies.
Because that she knows Lee isn't the one stealing the supplies, because he has to look out for Clementine.
In my opinion, a grown-up looking for someone that is stealing supplies.
Is a very different situation then, a 11-year old child roaming rooftops, to help a group of adult people escape.
Also like i said before i respect your opinion
But i think this is a disscusion we will not agree on
The thing is, if the game was actually realistic, nobody would care who the kid thinks is up for task, as who isn't. The player shouldn't really have much say about who does what when playing as an eleven-year-old. No matter what you say, it's still unrealistic for Clementine to sneak into the stock room instead of, say, Jane, Mike, Carlos, Sarita, anyone else!
Lilly was stable enough to notice supplies were missing. In response to your other point, she could have asked Carley, Ben or even Katjaa herself for help if she really didn't think she was up to the task at hand. By that point she hated Lee so much that she was willing to let him die back at that farm, yet, and episode later she's suddenly running back to Lee for help? I mean, really, it wasn't a murder case. The investigation took Lee about 10 minutes and I'm sure she could have handled that alright. Why is it so impossible to believe that Lee might had been the one hiding them to at some point run away with Kenny (Clem, Katjaa and Duck included) and leave an over the edge Lilly alone? She asks for help regardless because the PLOT demands it.
Alright you made a good point there
But i still think the situation because the plot demands it, in that case.
Is still not so over the top, as some scene's in season 2.
But i guess we all see, things differently
Unrealistic how? Because an adult should have done it? So, as players, what were we supposed to do for the last 30 minutes of the episode? You people fail to realize that in order for Telltale to give us a decent episode (gameplay wise) there are always going to be some gaps in the story. As of right know, TTG are about 20% gameplay and you want to eliminate that too? No matter what you say, Clementine can't just simply stand back and watch everything happen. Anyone who was played games knows that's not a PC's job.
When did Clem decide she was going to do it, though? It was the others who thought she should be the one to go so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
I totally see your point, too. I even agree in some examples (wind turbine). Just not the Carver camp situation.
Well, season 2 was mostly Clementine walking around the woods. lol! I agree though. The characters weren't as well thought out, and there were a lot of loose ends. Were Rebecca and Carver in a relationship or did he force himself on her? Where was Mike from? There's been speculation he was one of the scavengers that attacked Christa, but the game doesn't tell us that or anything about him. How did the rest of the cabin group end up with Carver? Was Jane captured? The lack of backstory and details made the majority of the characters difficult to connect with. I was less affected by Sarah's and Luke's death than Doug's...someone who wasn't with us nearly as long. I wish 400 days was longer. Maybe an actual separately released game inside of a DLC episode.
The main point of the first comment I made was that your opinion isn't the absolute reality, and that just because you didn't trust Mike, Jane, etc. to do the job, doesn't mean that having them do it would've been a bad writing decision. Didn't want to put it bluntly so that I wasn't perceived as outright rude.
Because nobody had any objections, other than Mike when deciding who should take the walkie-talkie to Luke. That's far from what would happen in reality.
I don't know, explore Howe's Hardware? Do more chores, other than only loading two guns in the entire day and picking some berries? Get character development for Rebecca, Carlos, Nick and even Kenny?
Nice generalization.
Well, who determines what a good episode game-wise looks like? I don't "fail to realize" something just because my opinion differs from yours. I would've been okay if the episode didn't have as many absurd aspects as Clementine sneaking twice was.
I've never said that.
I'm talking about the unrealism of that same thing. That, and the fact that nobody had anything to say about the kid being the one who carried out the plan twice, which could easily lead it to sink if Clementine was discovered. Even Mike who later refutes didn't say anything the first two times.
Why are you so sure that it wouldn't go that way in reality? Have you ever been in that position? Everyone figured she was the best person for the job and she agreed. She's capable of taking care of babies, get in the middle of fights, shoot it out with Russians, but somehow getting a walkie talkie is the ultimate life test? Besides, she was given directions and Clementine has been through enough to know how to not get caught.
ALL we did throughout the episode was explore and do chores. Now, if you weren't happy with the material we were given that's a completely different problem.
I determine it for myself. I'm speaking from my perspective. If for you the perfect Walking Dead game is sitting around talking and doing chores for an hour and half, suit yourself. That's simply your preference, but just because the game didn't live up to your own personal expectations of what it should have been doesn't mean it was bad.
Again, who exactly did you want carrying out the plan? Beaten up Luke? One eyed Kenny? And it makes total sense why neither Jane nor Mike were put in charge. I remember Kenny saying he didn't even know Mike which was nothing short of the truth. I'm living under a psycho's roof. I wouldn't put my life in the hands of strangers, either. Like Chuck said in S1, it doesn't matter what you are anymore, it's about your capabilities. Sadly, Clem seems smarter than half the people we come across.
I think your last point is addressed in the above paragraph as well.
More like immersion breaking. 5 or I don't know how many people listening to a kid sure is realistic. OF COURSE SHE IS MORE WISER AND THE ONE THAT IS ABLE TO DEFEND THE WHOLE GROUP THAN AN ADULT! Come on guys, get out of here -__-
Those are fair points; I had honestly forgotten that Rebecca gave her direction both times. My point isn't that Clementine being able to do those things is unrealistic, and I apologize if it has come out that way. I'm just not buying that a group of adults who barely know anything about her would trust her enough to do that. That's what bugs me out. We could compare it to the meat locker scene in "Starved For Help" when she crawls through the air ventilation system. In that instance though, she indeed was the only one who could fit, while in "In Harm's Way" literally anybody in shape could've been sent, because size wasn't a problem.
That's all kind of off-reality in my opinion, sans being capable of taking care of a baby. I find that last aspect somewhat more believable.
No, I'm happy with the episode, and I was even happier when I hadn't thought it through. I was rather talking about helping move boxes, organizing food cans, keeping watch, that sort of chores. I'm happy with those that Clementine had—loading guns and doing gardening or whatever—but I was hoping for it to really be hard work, as Carver put it. I guess it just wasn't what the preview, trailer and game itself led me to believe.
I don't think it was a bad episode. I wished for the group to be at Howe's for longer, so that we could really get involved with the residents there. The chores section that I mentioned was only a means of doing so, but literally anything would've been fine by me. Even when Clementine gave a worried look at Hank's general direction made me content, because I supposed she recognized him as the guard at the roof.
I will be assuming that we're talking about both plans.
Carlos or Sarita, if you didn't really want to depend on these strangers, but I now get why people wouldn't trust neither of the four. Thank you for this!
Man, it would've been neat if Sarita had volunteered to carry out the plan of getting the walkie-talkies. The player could then say that they'll do it themselves, or that it's better for an adult to do it. That would've given Sarita a greater degree of relevance in "In Harm's Way," which then resulted to be the episode where she is bitten.
Cries.
That's a good point. I admitted before that I do see where you're coming from, but I'm also looking at it from Telltale's point of view. As much as we all want puzzles and character development, we have to understand it's their job to try and please as many fans as they can and a game with almost no gameplay is bound to get criticism from those who favor it. Like I pointed out before, that's the reason why sometimes Clementine finds herself doing quite a lot this season.
Doing everything you just mentioned would have been fine, but then it meant Clementine was doing almost nothing to advance the story. Is it really a good game if the secondary characters do all the work? There's a difference between organizing cans and getting walkie talkies to escape Carver's camp. The disparity in importance is quite obvious.
I agree that Sarita was probably a decent choice, but do you really see a character like her just stepping up and taking over? Because I don't. And Carlos was gone most of the episode and it wouldn't had been a good idea. What if they came looking for him in the middle of the night?
Nice to have some healthy back and forth. Very good points on both sides.
Cries
Hmm?
Same! Thank you for this conversation, @SaltLick305. I'm walking out of here looking at Season 2 in a different light, because like you said, as much as I wanted it to be different in some aspects, it probably would've caused it to be rated—in my opinion grossly and unfairly—lower.
Ah… then, from what I've gathered, isn't this forum such a vocal minority. Most opinions that I've read say that they expected Howe's to be a major location.
Thank you too! And I feel the same way. Your points were all valid and made me understand more why these things bothered you. Hopefully TTG can achieve both logical sense and decent gameplay in their upcoming games.
I did, too. I've heard people say they had a dispute with Carver's voice actor. Who knows.
What I am trying to say is how they treat her as a wise adult when they shouldn't even listen to her because it is unrealistic.
Of course I have complaints, but I thoughly enjoyed the season. I still felt impacted by characters deaths, I liked having Kenny back.
What can I say, I had fun.
Oh, ok. Well she was pretty wise. Wiser than the Cabin group, who were safe at Carver's camp for who knows how long. While Clem was "out" during that time.
It was from Clem's perspective, and she did several things that were easier for a small person to do. And the group also clearly trusted her and knew she was capable. The whole point of Clementine is that she's NOT just a helpless kid. She's probably more ready for this world than most everyone else. It just seems you don't like that part of her character, but that's her. Sorry. It's not lazy writing just because a few people don't like it.
Just like everything else on the Telltale forums, very vocal minorities.
Season 2 had near universal acclaim, and Clementine is probably one of my favorite video game characters of all time.
This is a ridiculous complaint and lacks any reason or substance. If you don't like the protagonist of a game, then play a different game.
And here we go again...
I would wager to guess that most people that don't like Season 2 try to come up with reasons to not like it, but their real reason is because Luke died.
Sorry guys. It's TWD. Everyone dies.
Women had babies outside of hospitals for centuries. The human race survived.
I enjoyed it, played both seasons at least 5 or 6 times, the only thing I didn't like was Clem being treated like an adult despite her age (hey I understand it's 2+ years in the apocalypse but still) and at some point it gets ridiculous: Clem shut this turbine down because we all have no idea how to do it, Clem go steal some walkie-talkies then go turn on a PA system in a psycho guy's office who can kill you without any remorse, Clem cut a wire so all the deck drops down...etc, I understand she's the PC but she's still a 11 years old girl.
Even with it's flaws I still like S2 as much as S1, hope S3 does't have so many writers as S2 in order for the story to improve
I think Episode 4 and the end of Episode 3 were the only painful parts. My examples:
Other than that, I liked it.
Yes, because standing around and looking pretty for 5 episodes would have been game of the year.
k I was exaggerating. I was referring about tasks that you can say you don't have to do but you still have to such as in Episode 4 where Bonnie tells Clementine to talk to Kenny even though Clementine could say that she doesn't want to....
My bad I exaggerated there. I already replied to Rabbit.
As as they don't make me kill a dog again, I can be happy
Hey, you could have left it alive-ish.
Looking back on it, I think I was a little too hard on S2 on a couple of things but I still feel underwhelmed.
Hell No. Michonne was by far the worst and most boring. Season 2 atleast had a couple moments of greatness.
Not an excuse.
AJ was a reason to act as a prop for shitbeard's and dumbfaces' little feud and that's it.
Honestly, I thought it was the weakest of all the M rated Telltale games.
As I have mentioned in the past, I did enjoy the first half of Season 2 and found it to be comparable to the first Season of TWD, but come the second half and the quality definitely felt to me that it declined to the point where it wasn't enjoyable at all.
Though what I do believe is to be the weakest Telltale's Walking Dead story is the Michonne series by far, as it was merely a watered-down Season 2 and offered nothing new to the series, or even a taste of what to expect for Season 3.
Sure I have some complaints as well, it was disappointing but it wasn't bad.
I actually liked 400 Days better than either season. I just wish it had been longer. Playing as different characters made it fresh, and it was interesting in that it also tie up some loose ends from Season 1 and gave a general idea of the timeline of events. I do wish Bonnie's backstory had been a bit more in-depth and meaningful though. We still know very little about her other than she used to have a drug problem.