No video game has ever really done a child protagonist that feels like.... a real human child... interacting with the cruel adult world.
And never has this been done for the zombie apocalypse genre.
Telltale took a risk and it would have paid off had they actually remembered that Clem was still a child and not some kind of Superman who was more competent than the actual adults.
They didn't capture the fear or curiosity or any other genuine emotions a child protagonist living in a world infested by zombies would feel.
They made Clementine too much of an adult within a child's body - to the point you have to question why they opted to keep her as a child at all instead of a teenager if she wasn't going to feel like a child. Wasted potential really, they wanted to show how she had lost her innocence from Season 1 which forced her to mature, but they never managed to capture the transition that made us feel like Clem was a real child struggling to cope and change in order to survive.
Why Telltale, why? You made Lee Everett such a believable and human character, you made Clementine S1 seem like a real life child whom we cared for, then you threw all that away in favor of using Clem as a Cash Cow without properly investing in her personality.
I mean what was the point of playing as a child protagonist when you never felt like you were actually in the shoes of a child protagonist?
No video game has ever really done a child protagonist that feels like.... a real human child... interacting with the cruel adult world.
… moreAnd never has this been done for the zombie apocalypse genre.
Telltale took a risk and it would have paid off had they actually remembered that Clem was still a child and not some kind of Superman who was more competent than the actual adults.
They didn't capture the fear or curiosity or any other genuine emotions a child protagonist living in a world infested by zombies would feel.
They made Clementine too much of an adult within a child's body - to the point you have to question why they opted to keep her as a child at all instead of a teenager if she wasn't going to feel like a child. Wasted potential really, they wanted to show how she had lost her innocence from Season 1 which forced her to mature, but they never managed to capture the transition that made us feel like Clem was a real child … [view original content]
Though Ellie was more of an adolescent/teenager than a true child protagonist.
I wonder if we'll ever get a game where you play as a genuine child protagonist who actually make us feel like we're playing from a real child's perspective, which could be interesting if done right.
Though Ellie was more of an adolescent/teenager than a true child protagonist.
I wonder if we'll ever get a game where you play as a genu… moreine child protagonist who actually make us feel like we're playing from a real child's perspective, which could be interesting if done right.
I think a Child protagonist can be interesting, but part of the problem some people had with Season 2 was that Clementine was written more like an adult rather than a hardened child. You can put a character through intense turmoil and still write them with the nuance of a kid experiencing something as opposed to an adult experiencing it. Like, for example, Season 2 could have focused a lot more on Clementine being orphaned as well as her survivor's guilt from having inadvertently caused Lee's death, making her afraid to be vulnerable and terrified of the idea of getting close to people. In the process of all that, she could have also had the additional burden of not being able to articulate or full realize her feelings due to only being a young child. Instead, Season 2's portrayal of Clem really just focused more on portraying a sense of nihilism instead.
For writing a child character, a lot of it really would have to come down to being able to mentally play out the different subtleties between children and adults, such as how a young child versus an adult would pick up the subtext of a situation. Even if Clem ends up being super hardened or taught to survive by others, she will still be naive and incompetent in some ways, and I think that the writers should try to focus more on subtleties like those in Season 3 just like they did in Season 1. I don't dislike Season 2 like some people do on these forums, but I will say that Clem being some super hardened badass was never supposed to be a large part of her character, and I'm not saying that as one of those people who got super attached to Clem or her sense of innocence in Season 1 - I'm pointing that out as the transformation seems inconsistent in comparison to Season 1.
After Season 2, I highly doubt so since it would go against the story that Season 2 was trying to tell. Maybe they will make her less hardened and more nuanced, but I don't imagine they will make her go back to being happy as the time for that is too long gone since she would be a few years into the apocalypse.
Do you think that in season 3 she will be more cheerful and happy? she will probably only 13.
Perhaps they learned their lesson and now she will be act more like child.
I think she needs to love someone like Lee and opening up to him, to talk about her feelings, she is very closed, perhaps if someone refer to her and understand her, it will change for the better. i think she's an interesting character, and she can change ... especially because I think that would be the end of the her story in Season 3.
Though Ellie was more of an adolescent/teenager than a true child protagonist.
I wonder if we'll ever get a game where you play as a genu… moreine child protagonist who actually make us feel like we're playing from a real child's perspective, which could be interesting if done right.
I agree with all of this. One of the issues was that not only was Clementine not written to act her age, but that the other members of the Cabin crew saw her as an adult as well. I remember someone on the forum specifically mentioning how cool it would have been to see Clementine manipulating the fact that they saw her as a child to her advantage, as well as exploring just how that age gap affects her relationships with them. No adult realistically would burden as much stuff onto a young girl the way they did.
I think a Child protagonist can be interesting, but part of the problem some people had with Season 2 was that Clementine was written more l… moreike an adult rather than a hardened child. You can put a character through intense turmoil and still write them with the nuance of a kid experiencing something as opposed to an adult experiencing it. Like, for example, Season 2 could have focused a lot more on Clementine being orphaned as well as her survivor's guilt from having inadvertently caused Lee's death, making her afraid to be vulnerable and terrified of the idea of getting close to people. In the process of all that, she could have also had the additional burden of not being able to articulate or full realize her feelings due to only being a young child. Instead, Season 2's portrayal of Clem really just focused more on portraying a sense of nihilism instead.
For writing a child character, a lot of it really would have to come down to being ab… [view original content]
I personally really enjoyed season two, despite its flaws. Character and story-wise, I think the first season was better. However, I will always give credit where credit is due. Season two had tons of potential, and they laid out a lot of great groundwork and foundation in the first two episodes to later be explored upon. Clementine's guilt about Lee's death during the dinner conversation, the divided loyalty between Luke and Kenny, Rebecca possibly being pregnant with Carver's baby, the dynamics between the cabin members, etc. It also had some really great character moments as well, such as Nick's monologue in the cellar where he discussed the futility of survival and not coping the way others can. We had just enough to be interested, to see this potential and get excited at the prospects of what could happen with this new group.
The execution, however, was the messy part. Season 1 had opportunities where we could walk around and ask the group members questions. That's how we found out a lot of information about them and their life pre-apocalypse. Imagine getting to talk to the cabin members more during the more quieter times of the season, and ask about how they met each other. How they felt about certain things, even if its secretly against what everyone else wants. Through that, not only would a deeper relationship be built between that character and Clementine, but between the player and the character. The more we know about them, the more invested we feel in them and their survival. But again, a lot of the characters didn't get the treatment I thought they should have. Nick's death was anti-climatic and he was just kind of cast aside after his first death, and I didn't like how they were building up a rivalry between Luke and Kenny all for one of them to die (still not over it) and have a different character be thrust into his place. People said the Luke and Kenny choice was "too predictable", but there's nothing necessarily wrong with predictable. It made sense for Clementine to have a division of trust and loyalty between the group she has now, and someone from her past. It made sense. It had the proper buildup, and would have been one of the more dramatic choices of the entire series. Just think about how panicked people were at the thought of choosing who to eat dinner with between Luke and Kenny.
So yeah, season 2 had a lot of great and not-so-great aspects of it. I still enjoyed it, but I wish they had done more with what they set up.
After Season 2, I highly doubt so since it would go against the story that Season 2 was trying to tell. Maybe they will make her less harden… moreed and more nuanced, but I don't imagine they will make her go back to being happy as the time for that is too long gone since she would be a few years into the apocalypse.
I agree with all of this. One of the issues was that not only was Clementine not written to act her age, but that the other members of the C… moreabin crew saw her as an adult as well. I remember someone on the forum specifically mentioning how cool it would have been to see Clementine manipulating the fact that they saw her as a child to her advantage, as well as exploring just how that age gap affects her relationships with them. No adult realistically would burden as much stuff onto a young girl the way they did.
While I think Season 2 has a lot of flaws people have already mentioned, I think I could have overlooked all of them if the game had only done three things:
Have a coherent theme. Unlike Season 1 or even Michonne, there is no single theme or goal that is focused on throughout the game. Episode 1 and 2 set up the theme of trust and family nicely - with doubts set in by Carver and Kenny we start to doubt the trust with the new group. By the time Episode 3 comes around, that theme is more or less lost. There is no hidden mystery behind the cabin group (other than Alvin killing George, I guess) and we're stuck with them until they start dropping like flies, negating all the trust we built before. Then the game tries to force a "is it right to leave people behind" theme in episode 4, more on that later, and then the "you need to hurt people to save other people" theme in Episode 5. It didn't feel coherent and left me with the feeling that they made it up as they went along, especially after Carver's death. I think Carver could have been the perfect villain to continue the theme of distrust further into the game.
Accountability. In every post-Season 1 telltale game I have played so far, there is a scene in the last episode that accounts all of the choices made previously, giving the feeling that choices did matter (meeting with the Stranger, Crooked Man's trial, Fiona's vault hunter team, game of thrones recap of choices). Season 2 missed this and instead hinges the entire season on one decision at the end. Nothing that Clementine previously did influenced this outcome. Maybe, if certain options were only available to Clementine if she had acted a certain way before (such as having options that led to favor sparing Kenny or Jane more based on past interactions) that would have done something to get me to feel like I actually did mold Clementine.
Having messages that didn't contradict those in the first season. While "Around Every Corner" wasn't my favorite episode from season 1, I appreciate the message it had behind it. Even in the survivalist world of the walking dead, the episode made us sympathize with children, cancer patients, people with physical disorders, pregnant women, and basically anyone seen as a liability. Because if this, we are more inclined to save screw up kid Ben from the belltower, and that effort is paid off with a well executed character arc for Ben in episode 5. "Amid the Ruins" did the opposite of that. Right away, it questioned the usefulness of a pregnant woman, a baby, a screw up kid who died off screen in a fence, a potentially mentally disabled teen, and a physically disabled kid who ends up being vilified anyways. Because this does not make you sympathize with them, it encourages that you leave Sarah behind. If you make the effort to save her, you aren't rewarded with a character arc but instead an arguably worse death. This is the opposite of Season 1's message, backpedaling lessons that both the player and Clementine had learned, and left me feeling empty.
Like I said there are way more problems I have than this, but these are what I think would have made the game feel at least satisfying by the ending. I think a lot of this has to do with inconsistent decisions made during development. Many of the cabin group members I believe were created by Vanaman before he left for his own studio, leaving liability characters in the hands of a team that didn't respect liability characters.
While I think Season 2 has a lot of flaws people have already mentioned, I think I could have overlooked all of them if the game had only do… morene three things:
* Have a coherent theme. Unlike Season 1 or even Michonne, there is no single theme or goal that is focused on throughout the game. Episode 1 and 2 set up the theme of trust and family nicely - with doubts set in by Carver and Kenny we start to doubt the trust with the new group. By the time Episode 3 comes around, that theme is more or less lost. There is no hidden mystery behind the cabin group (other than Alvin killing George, I guess) and we're stuck with them until they start dropping like flies, negating all the trust we built before. Then the game tries to force a "is it right to leave people behind" theme in episode 4, more on that later, and then the "you need to hurt people to save other people" theme in Episode 5. It didn't feel coherent and left me with the feeling that t… [view original content]
Have a coherent theme. Unlike Season 1 or even Michonne, there is no single theme or goal that is focused on throughout the game. Episode 1 and 2 set up the theme of trust and family nicely - with doubts set in by Carver and Kenny we start to doubt the trust with the new group. By the time Episode 3 comes around, that theme is more or less lost.
That's part of why I don't enjoy the later episodes. I really liked the theme of trust and family they set up in the beginning, and with Clementine still being so young, I felt those things were especially important for her character. There's an episode in the TV series where when Rick is out for the count for a while after the Governor beat him up, Carl gets mad at his unconscious dad, saying he doesn't need him anymore and can take care of herself, and even in that same episode tries to go it alone dealing with walkers and scavenging supplies to prove it...only he ends up cracking later when he thinks Rick has turned, admitting he was wrong and that he's scared.
In Amid the Ruins, there's a moment Jane basically tells Clementine 'you can make it on your own' and explains earlier in the episode of her group and groups in particular being a liability and it's better being alone. The game even gives the option of an ending where Clementine can leave on her own with A.J. I didn't like that message, and not when they were delivering it to an 11 year old child. It seemed to go against what they were telling us in the beginning, and I don't feel that it's fits with Clementine, not with how she was in the beginning or what the show or series has taught us. Yes there's no real right or wrong to how a person would survive in that situation, but it wasn't welcomed to me when a previous message was already in place, and the worst part was that in order to convey that new message of surviving alone, they went and made the group behave reckless at times, even if it meant contradicting their characters.
I think as well, after Season 1 with Clementine losing so much [especially with how Season 1 starts with Omid dying and Christa disappearing] she needed to gain something from this season. However except for A.J, she didn't gain much of anything other than what the game's new message was suggesting would be a liability. I only fear at this point from that outcome that like Carl, she'll end up cracking too because it would only be human that she would, more so at that age.
While I think Season 2 has a lot of flaws people have already mentioned, I think I could have overlooked all of them if the game had only do… morene three things:
* Have a coherent theme. Unlike Season 1 or even Michonne, there is no single theme or goal that is focused on throughout the game. Episode 1 and 2 set up the theme of trust and family nicely - with doubts set in by Carver and Kenny we start to doubt the trust with the new group. By the time Episode 3 comes around, that theme is more or less lost. There is no hidden mystery behind the cabin group (other than Alvin killing George, I guess) and we're stuck with them until they start dropping like flies, negating all the trust we built before. Then the game tries to force a "is it right to leave people behind" theme in episode 4, more on that later, and then the "you need to hurt people to save other people" theme in Episode 5. It didn't feel coherent and left me with the feeling that t… [view original content]
I personally really enjoyed season two, despite its flaws. Character and story-wise, I think the first season was better. However, I will al… moreways give credit where credit is due. Season two had tons of potential, and they laid out a lot of great groundwork and foundation in the first two episodes to later be explored upon. Clementine's guilt about Lee's death during the dinner conversation, the divided loyalty between Luke and Kenny, Rebecca possibly being pregnant with Carver's baby, the dynamics between the cabin members, etc. It also had some really great character moments as well, such as Nick's monologue in the cellar where he discussed the futility of survival and not coping the way others can. We had just enough to be interested, to see this potential and get excited at the prospects of what could happen with this new group.
The execution, however, was the messy part. Season 1 had opportunities where we could walk around and ask the … [view original content]
I liked playing as a child that had to be tough, I liked all constant tension and action on the episodes, the awsome story, all the new characters and the 5 possible endings ( If you want more reasons : http://store.steampowered.com/app/261030/#app_reviews_hash )
I liked playing as a child that had to be tough, I liked all constant tension and action on the episodes, the awsome story, all the new char… moreacters and the 5 possible endings ( If you want more reasons : http://store.steampowered.com/app/261030/#app_reviews_hash )
I liked playing as a child that had to be tough, I liked all constant tension and action on the episodes, the awsome story, all the new char… moreacters and the 5 possible endings ( If you want more reasons : http://store.steampowered.com/app/261030/#app_reviews_hash )
I do wonder how we'll see Clem in Season 3. Kind of disappointing that we never got to play as a real child protagonist and now we'll likely be moving towards her adolescent/teenage phase.
I do wonder how we'll see Clem in Season 3. Kind of disappointing that we never got to play as a real child protagonist and now we'll likely be moving towards her adolescent/teenage phase.
3 - Having messages that didn't contradict those in the first season.
What I found interesting about Season 2 is that it contradicted some of Season 1 even from a meta-perspective. I read in interview about Season 2 where they said they based a lot of Season 2's direction and tone off of Chuck's advice to Lee in Season 1, where the Dead don't discriminate against young/old/etc but only those who are alive. However, in that same speech, Chuck also heavily emphasizes the importance of having an end goal. However, Season 2 didn't really have a concrete end goal, they just kind of wandered aimlessly between episodes.
While I think Season 2 has a lot of flaws people have already mentioned, I think I could have overlooked all of them if the game had only do… morene three things:
* Have a coherent theme. Unlike Season 1 or even Michonne, there is no single theme or goal that is focused on throughout the game. Episode 1 and 2 set up the theme of trust and family nicely - with doubts set in by Carver and Kenny we start to doubt the trust with the new group. By the time Episode 3 comes around, that theme is more or less lost. There is no hidden mystery behind the cabin group (other than Alvin killing George, I guess) and we're stuck with them until they start dropping like flies, negating all the trust we built before. Then the game tries to force a "is it right to leave people behind" theme in episode 4, more on that later, and then the "you need to hurt people to save other people" theme in Episode 5. It didn't feel coherent and left me with the feeling that t… [view original content]
3 - Having messages that didn't contradict those in the first season.
What I found interesting about Season 2 is that it contradicte… mored some of Season 1 even from a meta-perspective. I read in interview about Season 2 where they said they based a lot of Season 2's direction and tone off of Chuck's advice to Lee in Season 1, where the Dead don't discriminate against young/old/etc but only those who are alive. However, in that same speech, Chuck also heavily emphasizes the importance of having an end goal. However, Season 2 didn't really have a concrete end goal, they just kind of wandered aimlessly between episodes.
Wellington was constantly brought up as a haven to head towards through out S2. Like S1's RV conflict, people had doubts. This time around bad shit just kept happening to clearly focus on our goal.
3 - Having messages that didn't contradict those in the first season.
What I found interesting about Season 2 is that it contradicte… mored some of Season 1 even from a meta-perspective. I read in interview about Season 2 where they said they based a lot of Season 2's direction and tone off of Chuck's advice to Lee in Season 1, where the Dead don't discriminate against young/old/etc but only those who are alive. However, in that same speech, Chuck also heavily emphasizes the importance of having an end goal. However, Season 2 didn't really have a concrete end goal, they just kind of wandered aimlessly between episodes.
Which again doesn't make sense....she was 6 years old when the apocalypse started...she almost doesn't have any experiance with combat, very well thought out decisions, and etc... if it weren't for some moves Lee taught her.
Oh, ok. Well she was pretty wise. Wiser than the Cabin group, who were safe at Carver's camp for who knows how long. While Clem was "out" during that time.
She was 8 when we/Lee met her. Just think about all the death she's seen. Cabin group had 1 casualty, and that was after they left. To me, besides Luke, no one was fit to be "out" at all.
Which again doesn't make sense....she was 6 years old when the apocalypse started...she almost doesn't have any experiance with combat, very well thought out decisions, and etc... if it weren't for some moves Lee taught her.
Well, at least they gave it a try. Even if their attempt at a child protagonist didn't work out as well as expected, they at least made an attempt at it.
I do wonder how we'll see Clem in Season 3. Kind of disappointing that we never got to play as a real child protagonist and now we'll likely be moving towards her adolescent/teenage phase.
I still liked S2 and enjoyed it as a game, but I felt what it lacked most was actually interesting characters. Besides from Kenny, Jane and I guess, Clementine, none of the other characters had much depth and were pretty forgettable. Luke was likeable, but other than that, there really wasn't much to him as a character. Season 1 was a lot better and produced characters that were memorable.
Eh, I didn't enjoy The Walking Dead: Season 2 as much as I enjoyed The Walking Dead: Season 1, but I liked it nonetheless, even I have some complaints about it.
But honestly... I think that The Walking Dead: Michonne was the weakest game of The Walking Dead franchise. Dumb moments that ruined the game for me, annoying hallucinations, the wasted potential of some choices etc.
Comments
No video game has ever really done a child protagonist that feels like.... a real human child... interacting with the cruel adult world.
And never has this been done for the zombie apocalypse genre.
Telltale took a risk and it would have paid off had they actually remembered that Clem was still a child and not some kind of Superman who was more competent than the actual adults.
They didn't capture the fear or curiosity or any other genuine emotions a child protagonist living in a world infested by zombies would feel.
They made Clementine too much of an adult within a child's body - to the point you have to question why they opted to keep her as a child at all instead of a teenager if she wasn't going to feel like a child. Wasted potential really, they wanted to show how she had lost her innocence from Season 1 which forced her to mature, but they never managed to capture the transition that made us feel like Clem was a real child struggling to cope and change in order to survive.
Why Telltale, why? You made Lee Everett such a believable and human character, you made Clementine S1 seem like a real life child whom we cared for, then you threw all that away in favor of using Clem as a Cash Cow without properly investing in her personality.
I mean what was the point of playing as a child protagonist when you never felt like you were actually in the shoes of a child protagonist?
Honestly, I think The Last of Us was pretty good.
Though Ellie was more of an adolescent/teenager than a true child protagonist.
I wonder if we'll ever get a game where you play as a genuine child protagonist who actually make us feel like we're playing from a real child's perspective, which could be interesting if done right.
That's true. That would be interesting, probably really hard though. Children PC are hard to do right.
But 'you' were the one who threw him in the spikes, and he will die even if you let him there :P
I must be the only person that preferred season 2 to season 1
I think a Child protagonist can be interesting, but part of the problem some people had with Season 2 was that Clementine was written more like an adult rather than a hardened child. You can put a character through intense turmoil and still write them with the nuance of a kid experiencing something as opposed to an adult experiencing it. Like, for example, Season 2 could have focused a lot more on Clementine being orphaned as well as her survivor's guilt from having inadvertently caused Lee's death, making her afraid to be vulnerable and terrified of the idea of getting close to people. In the process of all that, she could have also had the additional burden of not being able to articulate or full realize her feelings due to only being a young child. Instead, Season 2's portrayal of Clem really just focused more on portraying a sense of nihilism instead.
For writing a child character, a lot of it really would have to come down to being able to mentally play out the different subtleties between children and adults, such as how a young child versus an adult would pick up the subtext of a situation. Even if Clem ends up being super hardened or taught to survive by others, she will still be naive and incompetent in some ways, and I think that the writers should try to focus more on subtleties like those in Season 3 just like they did in Season 1. I don't dislike Season 2 like some people do on these forums, but I will say that Clem being some super hardened badass was never supposed to be a large part of her character, and I'm not saying that as one of those people who got super attached to Clem or her sense of innocence in Season 1 - I'm pointing that out as the transformation seems inconsistent in comparison to Season 1.
Do you think that in season 3 she will be more cheerful and happy? she will probably only 13.
Perhaps they learned their lesson and now she will be act more like child.
After Season 2, I highly doubt so since it would go against the story that Season 2 was trying to tell. Maybe they will make her less hardened and more nuanced, but I don't imagine they will make her go back to being happy as the time for that is too long gone since she would be a few years into the apocalypse.
I think she needs to love someone like Lee and opening up to him, to talk about her feelings, she is very closed, perhaps if someone refer to her and understand her, it will change for the better. i think she's an interesting character, and she can change ... especially because I think that would be the end of the her story in Season 3.
Ellie is a child (14) and she's awesome! and Clem is a tough child ... but I felt I played child, the protagonist.
I agree with all of this. One of the issues was that not only was Clementine not written to act her age, but that the other members of the Cabin crew saw her as an adult as well. I remember someone on the forum specifically mentioning how cool it would have been to see Clementine manipulating the fact that they saw her as a child to her advantage, as well as exploring just how that age gap affects her relationships with them. No adult realistically would burden as much stuff onto a young girl the way they did.
I personally really enjoyed season two, despite its flaws. Character and story-wise, I think the first season was better. However, I will always give credit where credit is due. Season two had tons of potential, and they laid out a lot of great groundwork and foundation in the first two episodes to later be explored upon. Clementine's guilt about Lee's death during the dinner conversation, the divided loyalty between Luke and Kenny, Rebecca possibly being pregnant with Carver's baby, the dynamics between the cabin members, etc. It also had some really great character moments as well, such as Nick's monologue in the cellar where he discussed the futility of survival and not coping the way others can. We had just enough to be interested, to see this potential and get excited at the prospects of what could happen with this new group.
The execution, however, was the messy part. Season 1 had opportunities where we could walk around and ask the group members questions. That's how we found out a lot of information about them and their life pre-apocalypse. Imagine getting to talk to the cabin members more during the more quieter times of the season, and ask about how they met each other. How they felt about certain things, even if its secretly against what everyone else wants. Through that, not only would a deeper relationship be built between that character and Clementine, but between the player and the character. The more we know about them, the more invested we feel in them and their survival. But again, a lot of the characters didn't get the treatment I thought they should have. Nick's death was anti-climatic and he was just kind of cast aside after his first death, and I didn't like how they were building up a rivalry between Luke and Kenny all for one of them to die (still not over it) and have a different character be thrust into his place. People said the Luke and Kenny choice was "too predictable", but there's nothing necessarily wrong with predictable. It made sense for Clementine to have a division of trust and loyalty between the group she has now, and someone from her past. It made sense. It had the proper buildup, and would have been one of the more dramatic choices of the entire series. Just think about how panicked people were at the thought of choosing who to eat dinner with between Luke and Kenny.
So yeah, season 2 had a lot of great and not-so-great aspects of it. I still enjoyed it, but I wish they had done more with what they set up.
Why out of interest?
Agreed. How can anybody be happy in an apocalypse lol?
Yes ... she didn't act like 11 ... but she's 11 and i think she has experienced a lot of things are tough.
While I think Season 2 has a lot of flaws people have already mentioned, I think I could have overlooked all of them if the game had only done three things:
Like I said there are way more problems I have than this, but these are what I think would have made the game feel at least satisfying by the ending. I think a lot of this has to do with inconsistent decisions made during development. Many of the cabin group members I believe were created by Vanaman before he left for his own studio, leaving liability characters in the hands of a team that didn't respect liability characters.
I like your answer. Season 2 was great in some ways.
That's part of why I don't enjoy the later episodes. I really liked the theme of trust and family they set up in the beginning, and with Clementine still being so young, I felt those things were especially important for her character. There's an episode in the TV series where when Rick is out for the count for a while after the Governor beat him up, Carl gets mad at his unconscious dad, saying he doesn't need him anymore and can take care of herself, and even in that same episode tries to go it alone dealing with walkers and scavenging supplies to prove it...only he ends up cracking later when he thinks Rick has turned, admitting he was wrong and that he's scared.
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In Amid the Ruins, there's a moment Jane basically tells Clementine 'you can make it on your own' and explains earlier in the episode of her group and groups in particular being a liability and it's better being alone. The game even gives the option of an ending where Clementine can leave on her own with A.J. I didn't like that message, and not when they were delivering it to an 11 year old child. It seemed to go against what they were telling us in the beginning, and I don't feel that it's fits with Clementine, not with how she was in the beginning or what the show or series has taught us. Yes there's no real right or wrong to how a person would survive in that situation, but it wasn't welcomed to me when a previous message was already in place, and the worst part was that in order to convey that new message of surviving alone, they went and made the group behave reckless at times, even if it meant contradicting their characters.
I think as well, after Season 1 with Clementine losing so much [especially with how Season 1 starts with Omid dying and Christa disappearing] she needed to gain something from this season. However except for A.J, she didn't gain much of anything other than what the game's new message was suggesting would be a liability. I only fear at this point from that outcome that like Carl, she'll end up cracking too because it would only be human that she would, more so at that age.
applause
You're not the only one
Why? What are your reasons?
I liked playing as a child that had to be tough, I liked all constant tension and action on the episodes, the awsome story, all the new characters and the 5 possible endings ( If you want more reasons : http://store.steampowered.com/app/261030/#app_reviews_hash )
Interesting. Thank you for your reply
^-^
You actually felt like you were playing as a real child and not an overpowered adult in a child's body?
I do wonder how we'll see Clem in Season 3. Kind of disappointing that we never got to play as a real child protagonist and now we'll likely be moving towards her adolescent/teenage phase.
I agree, but 13 it's still kid.
Yeah
What I found interesting about Season 2 is that it contradicted some of Season 1 even from a meta-perspective. I read in interview about Season 2 where they said they based a lot of Season 2's direction and tone off of Chuck's advice to Lee in Season 1, where the Dead don't discriminate against young/old/etc but only those who are alive. However, in that same speech, Chuck also heavily emphasizes the importance of having an end goal. However, Season 2 didn't really have a concrete end goal, they just kind of wandered aimlessly between episodes.
Wouldn't "Get to Wellington" be an end goal?
Wellington was constantly brought up as a haven to head towards through out S2. Like S1's RV conflict, people had doubts. This time around bad shit just kept happening to clearly focus on our goal.
Which again doesn't make sense....she was 6 years old when the apocalypse started...she almost doesn't have any experiance with combat, very well thought out decisions, and etc... if it weren't for some moves Lee taught her.
She was 8 when we/Lee met her. Just think about all the death she's seen. Cabin group had 1 casualty, and that was after they left. To me, besides Luke, no one was fit to be "out" at all.
Well, at least they gave it a try. Even if their attempt at a child protagonist didn't work out as well as expected, they at least made an attempt at it.
I still liked S2 and enjoyed it as a game, but I felt what it lacked most was actually interesting characters. Besides from Kenny, Jane and I guess, Clementine, none of the other characters had much depth and were pretty forgettable. Luke was likeable, but other than that, there really wasn't much to him as a character. Season 1 was a lot better and produced characters that were memorable.
I'm mainly salty about season 2 simply because of Nick. It was a waste of a character.
Eh, I didn't enjoy The Walking Dead: Season 2 as much as I enjoyed The Walking Dead: Season 1, but I liked it nonetheless, even I have some complaints about it.
But honestly... I think that The Walking Dead: Michonne was the weakest game of The Walking Dead franchise. Dumb moments that ruined the game for me, annoying hallucinations, the wasted potential of some choices etc.