Clementine-Kenny's downfall.
SaltLick305
Banned
As a Kenny fan, sometimes I find myself wishing I hadn't encountered him in S2.
Ken seemed to be doing pretty good. He had a nice girlfriend along with new kind-hearted and harmonious pals to perfectly counter his usual jumpy attitude. Hell, they had a ski lodge with electricity and fully decorated for christmas, for god's sake.
His luck was about to change.
Even before we found him we were already causing him unintentional distress by killing one of his friends. Not long after that, the other one met his demise at the hands of OUR enemy. Now, Kenny is a lunatic's prisoner. A lunatic whom he previously had no connection with or knowledge of any sort. After Clementine, Jane and him basically exterminate the entire community all by themselves...BOOM-girlfriend is dead. Kenny is now a mere shell of his former self-a social reject of sorts. Kenny is a one-eyed mess holding on to someone else's baby just for sanity's sake. After all this, we still get the choice to kill him which isn't my point. What's staggering to me is that we can partially blame him for it.
Quick point, I'm not arguing that it is somebody else's fault that he became like this. That's a completely different discussion. I'm arguing that it was our fault he found himself in such an unfavorable situation to begin with.
I see no problem with hating Kenny. Quite honestly, I understand he can be detestable to a point. My mission with this thread is not to eliminate Kenny hate-it's simply a risky attempt at evicting this idea that he "Brought that on himself". I'm not gonna take any wild guesses, but smart money is on him not being nearly as miserable and deranged if Clementine hadn't found him.
While this thread is sure to cause controversy between Kenny's followers and those who can't stand him, I ask that you at least try to keep it civil. Another thing, the only mention of Jane here is a positive one-meaning there is no need to turn this into a Jane/Kenny war.
Comments
Fantastic summary of Kenny's season 2 arc. When a fucking lunatic shows up at a place where Kenny happens to be staying and tries to kidnapp (and possibly kill) everyone, you can be damn sure that one or more people are going to die lmao. I don't think Kenny can really be blamed for the stuff that happened to him either. Just really unfortunate circumstances.
I agree completely. Kenny's path further into mental instability wasn't brought on by himself, but simply terrible luck by running into Clem and the others. He can't be held accountable for fate's reasoning and the terrible luck that falls on him. And no, I'm saying everything Kenny does is justified because he's had an awful life, but that his actions and behaviour can be understood, which is what makes him such an interesting character.
How can people blame Kenny? Who wouldn't be off their rocker after everything Kenny had been through by Season 2? If someone is to blame, it is Katjaa. Kenny lost everything he had to live for in one fell swoop. It was selfish of Katjaa to leave her husband to deal with the pain and guilt of Duck's death (and her's) on his own. He probably also felt a little misplaced guilt over not being able to save Ben who he reconciled with toward the end of Season 1. Sarita was good for Kenny, but in my opinion, the damage was done. His "bad side" would have come out eventually regardless of whether he ran into Clementine or not. Of course, this is only the direction the writer's chose to take his character in. They could have just as easily made Kenny that much more interesting and likable, by showing him healing and learning to trust in and look out for others again, rather than being a secondary antagonist.
I don't understand what you mean by Kenny and Jane exterminating the community though. ??? If you mean Carver's camp, drawing the herd was Kenny, Clem, and the cabin group's best chance of escape, given the number of armed citizens willing to follow Carver's orders regardless of right and wrong.
If you are talking about the cabin group, it's their choice of hideout that brought Carver and co. to Walter's door (It's worth mentioning Carver was after them, not Clementine) and Sarah losing it in the middle of a horde that caused Sarita to get bit. Jane's escape plan was a good one, but Carlos got shot and all hell broke loose because Sarah panicked. Sarita, Bonnie, Nick, and Luke had to break cover to defend/go after Sarah. That has nothing to do with Kenny or Jane's plan. Neither does any of the subsequent deaths. Nick was bit trying to get help (a cheap, disappointing death and waste of a promising character). Sarah died from her inability to function under pressure. Rebecca died from blood loss/trauma from giving birth couple with exposure to the elements for too long/lack of food/fluids. Luke died from being dumb enough to leave cover for no good reason, resulting in his getting shot. I guess one could argue that Kenny's rough treatment of Arvo had a hand in Luke's death when Arvo runs across the ice to get away from Kenny, but that's a weak argument.
The only time Kenny really got on my nerves, was after Luke's death. His "I fixed the pickup, so I make the rules" was totally unfair. If Bonnie knew there was baby formula at Howe's, wouldn't you go back there, even with the risk of walkers, rather than set out for some place that might not exist or be overrun like Crawford was? He was not putting AJ first when he claimed to care so much about him, nor did he care what anyone else wanted when it was most important to keep the remainder of the group together.
It probably would have happened. Who knows? However, Clem getting there sure speeded up the process.
Don't worry, I was indeed talking about Carver's camp. I should have been more specific. (And not in a judgy way. It was just me quoting the events of the game)
I would say it's more like the cabin groups fault more so than Clems. They had Carver after them before Clem met them. They brought there troubles straight to Kenny's doorstep. Although you dont really get the chance to mention anything to Kenny's group because of some random reason like the reunion drama or Nick's situation. Somebody should have at least warned Kenny, but scared people will be stupid. I can't truly blame Kenny for all the bull shit that happened, even if he didn't exactly treat the situation as well as he could have (in hindsight).
The guy definitely got screwed out of an easy living after we (Clem and the cabin group) showed up, but hey, shit happens.
I think there is an option for Clementine to tell Walter people are coming after them when they are alone outside, but then Kenny shows up and then Bonnie.
You're right. The reason I mention Clementine is because Kenny would have no connection to the cabin group otherwise. She's the reason he let them all in. (Along with their troubles, to your point)
He sure did. Zombie apocalypse, though. Can't be surprised.
It doesn't really matter by that point.
Carver is already on their tails and I imagine once he noticed they stayed in he also put two and two together. The damage was already done.
Clementine deserves none of the blame for Kenny's predicament, the root of the entire predicament can either be the Howe's Community, the Cabin Group or both. Clementine and Kenny were basically forced into a conflict they had no inclination to be apart of. Saying that, characters like Jane and Mike, even Sarah and AJ were forced into the conflict as well.
I have to respectfully disagree. Sure, the cabin group might have been the root of the problem, but after getting helped she made a decision to stay with the group. Now, I'm no genius, but once that happens their problems kind of becomes hers too.
I already pointed out above that in Kenny's situation there is only Clementine to blame. The cabin group wouldn't even know Kenny otherwise-and had they still ran into him, he would have just forced them to leave. Kenny allowed Clementine and her friends to stay and that's when the lodge became a target.
Excuse me? I didn't know that Katjaa was Kenny's belonging and that her duty in life was to stand Kenny's ass, especially after Duck was bitten and becoming a reanimated corpse in any second. Katjaa visibly disagreed with him on several instances, namely when it came to Larry's murder on the meat locker and picking an argument against Lilly and Doug or Carley at the start of "Long Road Ahead." Plus, Kenny constantly disregarded Katjaa's opinion as to whether they should stop the train.
That is determinant, only taking place if Lee ignores his petition to let Ben die by causing him to fall three floors and then be devored by walkers—something that Ben deeply feared.
By the way, by locking himself in the alley—something that was completely unavoidable—Kenny was asking to be devored, which means that he was indirectly causing his own death, but likely regretted it on the last second and decided to duck into a window or something. I guess that makes him a hero, but Katjaa a coward, right? Sighs.
To be fair, Clem does have the option of flat-out saying to the ski lodge group they're being followed by dangerous people, and should leave ASAP. I honestly think the tragedy that befell them was more Walter's fault than Kenny's. There's a fine line between being optimistic and being naive, and poor old Walter crossed that line.
She also tells Kenny at dinner if I remember correctly.
Personally, I feel like perhaps it was a bit late and there was not much they could do about it at that point. Kenny wouldn't just tell Clementine to "just leave" no matter what. They all became a target as soon as he welcomed them into their lodge.
I see your point about Walter, though. He didn't seem to take it seriously at all-or Clem for that matter. He probably thoght it was a group of bandits and she was overreacting. I don't know how smart giving supplies to a stranger was either.
Honestly, how does Walter giving supplies to Bonnie affect the outcome of the assault at the lodge? It is not like she only made it to her crew just because she had some cans of peaches and beans to carry around. It is likely that Bonnie would've had more motivation to drive an attack to this group of pragmatic, selfish survivors.
You would be surprised.
Common opinion amongst the fanbase is that she chickened out. Although I can't say I necessarily agreed with her response, I can't just flat out call her a coward either.
I'm not a mother-nor will I ever be. I've never been in a situation where my kid is just sitting there dying either. I have no idea what's going through a mother's mind at that point.
Well, he wasn't wrong, was he? He did get the truck working all by himself. I don't agree with him being a dick about it, but he had a point.
Just because he was doing what HE thought was best it doesn't mean he didn't have AJ's best interest at heart. Honestly, we can sit here and call many Kenny things, but to say anything he did this season wasn't all to protect that baby it's delusional.
Sure, maybe going to Wellington wasn't the greatest idea, but he sure cared about AJ more than Mike and Bonnie combined who had no qualms about leaving him behind with no food or car.
As someone who absolutely detests Kenny's character down to a mathematical equation, I have to say that I'll at least respect this thread and not buy into my base instincts to make a completely unrelated joke at his expense or my usual rounds of accusations about him...
Needless to say, your opinion and mine are completely different on this particular subject.
Can't blame you for hating him. As a matter of fact, it's quite easy to feel that way.
Trust me, I know. You and I have been there before, remember?
I would be lying if I said I didn't find some of your Kenny jokes quite amusing, though. The last one about having a tied up racist redneck was a good one.
I can't remember exactly, but if you're a fan of his, I can't imagine we haven't at some point had an argument. I can at times be an argumentative prick about him.
Yeah, that's one thing I will always have a lot of material for, anti-Kenny jokes. He at least brings out the best of my comedic side I suppose.
I remember first going at it about the whole meat locker incident.Things got a little out of hand, but we talked through PM.
He's an easy target for sure. There's a lot of mockable material with him.
Oh god, I think I remember now. And I know for a fact you weren't the only one too.
I remember going in on anyone at that time for that conversation. I also remember starting that thread about AJ... I'm sure you know the one I'm talking about.
The cringe was real.
It was me arguing with that dude who loved Jane while you were dealing with someone else. We exchanged, though, lol. Shit got real and we all started arguing with one another. Ohhh, that thread. You sure got a lot of hate for that one.
That's what I wanted. I was basically an edgy hipster douche. Hell, still am a lot of times. But that's part of being an early 20 year old white asshole with a superiority complex.
I'm just glad I still haven't been banned...
Most of the times you do bring it when it comes to discussions, though. I'm hoping that's what the mods see.
I really see no problem with it. Whenever you make those jokes or controversial threads they are not necessarily directed at anyone. If you get riled up, speak up. People shouldn't get too sensitive around here because you don't feel attached to a baby made of pixels.
I suppose. I can't say I've changed my opinions on a lot of things, it's just I suppose I have a better footing on certain mannerisms that I wasn't accustomed to at the time.
You sure have matured a lot since 2014/15. I wasn't very fond of you at first, but we've become pretty good pals despite our difference in opinion when it comes to a certain character.
Yeah, 2014... especially those couple months throughout the finale of season two were my most aggressive temperamental time here.
And although my opinions on Kenny will most certainly remain negative, I at least consent that people can formulate their own opinions without need for biased bullshit.
Still love ripping on him and AJ... and Jane... and Carver... and most of the cast of Season 2... Season 2 in general actually.
It wasn't your intention OP but any thread about Kenny is going to cause an argument unfortunately
The S2 cast sure had a lot build up and potential...aaaaaand it led to nothing. Nick, Carver, Sarah. What a waste of good characters.
Well, so far so good, right? Everything has been civil and respectful which was all I asked for. I'm a happy camper right know.
I kind of was growing fond of Rebecca, but that's about it. Clementine was great until the finale where if the episode was any shittier, the screen would've had a thin smear of scat across it just for visual emphasis. Sam, Christa, and Omid. That's all the characters I liked really. Everyone else was expendable.
You want me to be honest?
Even Clementine and Kenny got on my nerves this season. I do like him way more in S2, though.
I only cared a little for Nick. Unfortunately, he turned out to be useless due to his determinant status and had no impact on the story.
If anything we should blame Tavia and the 400 days DLC. I mean what would Carver have become if all the 400 days characters either died or were captured by Nate?
You can determinantly have all but Bonnie stay at the camp. They don't really make a huge difference considering Carver had a lot of other guards.
For the record, I'm not a Kenny fan, and I think he has the tendency to be narrow-minded, selfish to a large degree, and disruptive. That said, I don't dislike him either. Katjaa's decision to end her life started him on a downward spiral is the point I was trying to make. He could be a jerk sometimes, yes, but before Duck's and Katjaa's deaths he didn't really put anyone else at risk. He would never have physically hurt Clementine (even if by accident) for instance. This is just my opinion, but I think if Katjaa hadn't done what she had done, Kenny would have had a better chance of healing. He was grieving too and she is the only one in their group who (as far as we know) also lost a child...the same child. They needed to be there for each other. I agree with @SaltLick305 that we don't know how we would feel in her position, but I still think it is selfish to leave your husband to face that by himself, especially in a world where there is no security, no support system.
I also wish she could have been there for him. Katjaa's support surely would have made a difference. She made her choice, though. Whether it's right or wrong is up to us to decide.
Personally? I didn't like it one bit, but I'm reluctant to judge her considering I've never been in that position before.
He was doing what he thought was best, but by this point, he was beyond reason. Say they get to Wellington and there is no Wellington or it's a walker nest, what then? The baby would have a better chance of survival where the weather was milder. Going back to Howe's was the best option. Either everyone is dead or fled and the walkers have dispersed and voila! you have shelter and supplies (like in the leave with Jane choice) or the survivors at Howe's would likely have taken them back considering the have a baby and Carver is dead. To say anything he did was to protect the baby, is true from Kenny's point of view, but doesn't make it so. Majority rules in that case. The other remaining members of the group wanted to head back south. I don't get why Bonnie and Mike didn't ask Jane and Clem to come with them, but that is a different discussion entirely.
My Lee saved him. I haven't explored all the variations of Season 1, so I will allow you may be right on that point. You would agree that Kenny went into the alley primarily with the intent to save Ben though, right?
Exactly.
We're not discussing how smart heading to Wellington was, though. My problem with your first post was this:
And my response to that was that no matter how stupid his ideas may have been, he was only doing it because he thought it would be best for AJ. So, again, do not get intelligence and intention mixed up. Isn't that his character in a nutshell? He means well, but goes the wrong way about it.