Episode 2 Kenny was chill for the most part of the episode but then in the meatlocker scene the guy who in episode 1 was devasted for not being able to save Shaw, decided to kill a man based on a hunch and instead of trying to see things from Lee's point of view and understand why he didn't agree to kill a man that could potentially be alive, he decides that it's best to let him die! -100 points of respect for Kenny.
You make it sound like Lee wasn't responsible yet this scene was determinant. However, as always i'll say again, if we are going by this side of things, why didn't Lee see it from Kenny's view either? Regardless if one seems more important than the other, Kenny was scared, rushed into a decision due to believing Larry would turn and kill all of them. Kenny believed he was protecting everyone by doing what he did, again regardless if the decision was rash. He feared he wouldn't get to save his family, they may be held hostage permanently or eaten by the St John's. He states he never liked what he did, he shows regret after doing it by saying he's sorry, he tries to apologise to Lilly as well. I'm not nor have ever said it was right what he did, and i have looked at it from Lilly's and determinant Lee's view but it would be nice if people would look at it from Kenny's as well and not just disagree because they hate him for something he felt was helping the group.
In the very final scene after my Lee decides not to take the stuff from the wagon, he keeps acting like I'm being the vilain looking at me like I'm some kind of monster because I'm not stealing with him!
Well what do you expect? Dude without sounding ignorant here, are you honestly saying if you were starving in an apocalyptic world and you found a load of food out in the open that you would not steal it because "it's wrong"? I would be thinking of the entire group and not just worrying about someone else's problems as shitty as that sounds. We would all be trying our best to survive. I don't believe for a minute you'd leave the food if you were hungry. But if a man hurts your feelings for telling you what he thinks or looks at you with disappointment, well what can i say to that? He's being honest with you i guess.
He leaves me to die once again in Episode 3. You're doing a great job as a friend Kenny! Please, keep at it.
I always felt the writers made this an extreme decision and wish it hadn't existed because some people just hold grudges forever but anyway, again going back to what i said. He was "determinantly" upset with Lee, he felt the guy was helping put them all in danger if Larry had turned. Looking at it from Kenny's view again, supposing your Lee had happened to be against him from day one, how do you think he'd feel? He wouldn't like the guy very much would he. I'm not defending what he did but i'm saying there is always a reason for it. Again, we're focusing on a determinant choice here because he didn't do this in my play through. I guess our first play through is what counts the most on how we feel i guess.
When I tell him about Lee's past he then comes with threats saying that Lee's past would come to play when deciding who comes on the boat and who doesn't. Because it's Kenny who decides that, of course, not the group (sarcasm)!
Once again, he's still mad at you for the reasons i stated, he probably doesn't trust Lee to be with him on a boat. Yet he appreciates your honesty about revealing the past. The issue here is, hurt feelings. People won't forgive a few harsh words from a guy who speaks his mind. Horrible? Perhaps but there is always a reason why he was and not just because he's a bad person.
I felt bad for him when he lost his family and tried to be as suportive as I could, putting Duck down for him and all, did that count for anything? Nahhh, Kenny only cares if you help him kill people.
You really look at that scene from an extreme negative view man and I highly disagree surprise surprise. Kenny does not "only care" if you help him kill people as you negatively said. If you helped him, the reason he "cares" is because he believes Lee helped keep them all safe. The initial killing was involved yeah, but he likes Lee not because he killed a guy for goodness sake. You really make it sound like he's a monster but I guess that's what you want him to be and how you see him I suppose. Also if he didn't care about him at all he would not have mentioned how he'll never forget when he took care of his son, did the right thing or was there for him (those are the 3 things he says in season 2 depending if you shot Duck, had him do it or left him in the woods.) He also says "i wish Lee was here" in Ep5 season 2.
I couldn't stand him in Episode 4. My plan was clear. Lee and Clem would go to the Marsh house and try to find her parents, if they couldn't find them then they would travel north. But for some mysterious reason Kenny (and everyone else for that matter) acts like the boat is everyone's plan. That made this episode so unbearable. When i vote that we should stay in the house and treat Omid, Kenny reprehends me for not prioritising his plan!
But as you know, regardless of what you talked to Clem about on the train, the plan was always going to be the boat. I stuck to that plan so i can't really relate to your decision just as you can't relate to mine. I actually really enjoyed that episode. Can you tell me exactly what scene you vote to treat Omid in the house? Is that near the start of the episode when you first make it in there? Because if it is, i don't recall Kenny reacting like that.
After my Lee is yet again forced to stick with the boat plan and go to Crawford, Ben decides to tell how he unintendedly got Duck bitten and Kenny goes nuts, threatening to murder Ben
If you had found out someone had got your family killed even unintentionally you'd feel the same way. I don't see why this is a negative here because his actions are normal as far as i'm concerned. The moment in which Ben told him was as wrong a time as you can get though.
and yet again making himself the owner of the boat (that Clem found and that the group, Ben included, was helping repairing),
He was a commercial fisherman who knew about boats which no one else did, it really didn't matter who owns the boat but he perhaps took it upon himself as the owner given his history with them and the fact he was the only one who knew how to fix it up and another reason is that knowing it was his idea in the first place. I do not see a problem with that and none of the group seemed to be against him taking ownership of it. This is just an extra negative thing the anti Kenny fans add to the mix in my opinion. Sorry but it is.
claiming that Ben wasn't going to have a place on it for something that he did by accident
And i notice you don't bite Christa's head off for voting to not include him in the boat either? He was a liability, not a bad kid and didn't mean to cause the problems he did, but nevertheless, a liability. The funny thing is, if Lee doesn't drop Ben, then later on it seems that Ben would be going on the boat with them regardless as there was no further mention of Kenny or Christa saying he wasn't coming on the boat with them.
After I saved Ben in the bell tower, Kenny keept saying that Ben should've died and gave Lee death stares for not murdering Ben. That was just disgusting of him.
When you find out someone got your family killed, regardless if it were an accident, you are going to be angry at someone. You may even wish they were dead for it. Everyone is different. Plus he kept putting them all in danger and he'd had enough of it. Despite his "disgusting" ways as you put it, he later forgives him after Ben stands up to him and does an extremely noble thing for Ben but of course it's not good enough for the anti Kenny fans who will still hold a grudge for every single thing he does wrong.
I just told him to fuck off when he refused to help Clem because Lee didn't did what he wanted enough times.
Ok, i'll just say this which relates to my scene here:
"You've always been there for me Lee, always had my back when it mattered. What kind of friend would i be if I wasn't there for you now. You and Clementine are the only family i got left. I'm with you to the end"
Kenny showing Ben some empathy in episode 5 was nice of him. Something nice about his character that disappeared when he insinuated that Lee should've been killed in the attic.
But the empathy towards Ben was said AFTER the thing you stated about Kenny saying Lee should have been killed in the attic lol which by the way is another negative view of Kenny from you but again you don't look at why he was "insinuating" what he did. It was a meat locker number 2 scene and again he was worried what might happen if the worst came to the worst but anyway we won't dwell on negativity for now, I think you've stated enough of that lol.
He then decides to trap himself in an alley full of walkers instead of going to safety. Funly enough, minutes ago he was talking about how suicide is not the answer. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Yep but as we know this was a plot line to write Kenny out of the game. Plus, maybe he changed his mind? Maybe he'd decided to commit suicide? Or maybe because he wanted to do the right thing and save the shitbird he hated so much, not to mention mercy killing him so he wouldn't feel more pain that he had to.
Season 1 - Kenny
I liked episode 1 Kenny, he seemed like a nice dude with a nice family. Episode 2 Kenny was chill for the most part of t… morehe episode but then in the meatlocker scene the guy who in episode 1 was devasted for not being able to save Shaw, decided to kill a man based on a hunch and instead of trying to see things from Lee's point of view and understand why he didn't agree to kill a man that could potentially be alive, he decides that it's best to let him die! -100 points of respect for Kenny.
In the very final scene after my Lee decides not to take the stuff from the wagon, he keeps acting like I'm being the vilain looking at me like I'm some kind of monster because I'm not stealing with him!
He leaves me to die once again in Episode 3. You're doing a great job as a friend Kenny! Please, keep at it. When I tell him about Lee's past he then comes with threats saying that Lee's past would come to play when deciding who come… [view original content]
I don't hate Lilly for that. Don't get me wrong, I was very angry with her after she shot Carley, but I did allow her back in the RV. I also liked Carley. (I'm not attacking you for hating Carley or anything. Just wanted to say I still liked Lilly after that)
let. people. dislike. KENNY. i'm sorry, but every single time someone says that they don't like kenny for whatever reason, you reply to them with the same thing. "what about all the good things he's done???????? kenny did [insert humane thing here] so he's good too!!!!1!!!1!!!11111!" PEOPLE CAN DISLIKE KENNY. P L E A SE.
But I really dislike Kenny. From S1E4 forward he's been just a massive prick. I know he lost everything, but damn, he hated everyone and lik… moreed to start arguments while missing Duck and Katjaa in the meantime. Should've died in the alleyway. He'd be at peace much sooner.
Ok fair enough on your opinion but what about looking at all the good things about him? Believe it or not he's not a "prick" all the time if you actually look at another side of things. Also when he is being horrible, look at the reasons behind why he is because there will be a reason and not just because he's being horrible for the sake of it unlike Larry!
I also feel when you said "he should have died in the alleyway" was a bit harsh but hey your opinion
Lily made a rash decision and killed Carley, Lee did the same before the apocalypse, Kenny did the same with Larry and Jane, Katjaa made one when she shot herself. A lot of people make last second mistakes, sure it was horrible but given enough time I'm sure she would eventually regret it
I don't hate Lilly for that. Don't get me wrong, I was very angry with her after she shot Carley, but I did allow her back in the RV. I also… more liked Carley. (I'm not attacking you for hating Carley or anything. Just wanted to say I still liked Lilly after that)
People are welcome to do so. I have never said people cannot have an opinion and im not trying to change their views but i am also entitled to defend the character that I like from being called a "prick" and all names under the sun. If i started bashing a character you like in an extreme way you would react the same way. No need to take offence. I am simply saying that instead of someone just focusing on a negative side, look at the positive as well. There is not enough postivity in the world today
let. people. dislike. KENNY. i'm sorry, but every single time someone says that they don't like kenny for whatever reason, you reply to them… more with the same thing. "what about all the good things he's done???????? kenny did [insert humane thing here] so he's good too!!!!1!!!1!!!11111!" PEOPLE CAN DISLIKE KENNY. P L E A SE.
I don't reacall Kenny making one good thing in Season 2 besides helping deliver AJ.
Ok let's see here:
Yes, it's not as if he stopped Clementine for owning up about the missing radio which inevitably had consequences for himself knowing quite well Clem would have been on the receiving end of Carver's wrath...oh wait he did, i guess this wasn't a nice thing he did?
He tried to save everyone back at the lodge despite the problems it did cause, the point is, his intentions were that of something "good". I will elaborate on this in a moment.
He got a car/truck working so they could all get to where they were going or at least be able to travel to find somewhere if Wellington couldn't be found but i suppose you'll say that wasn't a good thing he did either all because he's "a meany" at times right?
When choosing the Wellington ending, something "good" he did was what he did in the best interest for the kids, wanting them to be safe. Of course it's probably not a good enough reason for you though right? There is probably more i could think of but i'm in work shortly and will look into it later.
if he had tried to find Luke instead of starting to shoot random people and expect the antagonist group to not retaliate, maybe everyone could've been safe and sound by the end of episode 2.
People are quick to blame Kenny for what was it you said? Shooting random people?? And criticising him for not going to find Luke?? Why did Luke disappear? Because Kenny told him to take a hike? What and he listened to him? I doubt it. Anyway, the point is, at least Kenny was trying to do something instead of running away or doing nothing at all. It's like you said "maybe" everyone could have been safe and sound but what if they hadn't anyway? It's something we wouldn't know for sure but given the fact Carver would have murdered Carlos if Rebecca hadn't revealed her location shows that he would have killed someone if she hadn't shown herself.
Trying to figh tons of armed people? Too bad he didn't try, I wonder what would've happened.
Yes his stupidity here shows that he was not thinking things through which as we all know is a flaw within himself as shown before, i admit that and i don't mind saying it but saying "too bad he didn't try" implying you wish he had been killed by it yeah? Nice dig there but i guess it was to be expected. Then most likely Kenny's stupidity would get everyone else killed as well.
Trying to leave when the place gets overrun by walkers? Carver's men wont be looking at them, sure, but what about the zombies?
In which Jane then added to the plan by covering themselves in guts to get out. It was a group plan in the end but the blame is piled on Kenny as usual because we all want to label negativity to him (sarcasm).
Kenny couldn't listen to anyone but himself. Even Sarita tries to make him act rationally, but he just shoves aside what everyone else says and only takes his own opinion into account.
And how long have we known Kenny? We've known his hot headedness for a long time. He comes across as an asshole and has said a lot of horrible things but guess what? His own opinion that he took into account was still in the interest of everyone even if they didn't always agree. Sure it's selfish and i'm not saying it's a good thing how he behaves but there's more to it than him being horrible.
He then decides to waste time by smashing Carver's face which leads to his girfriend to get bitten
Wasting time? By the time he finished, the group had only just got out of the building and he shortly followed them and you are actually saying what he did to Carver led to Sarita being bit???? You are actually blaming him for this??
and then he blames it on us???
When he blamed Clem for what happened is as i have said many times. It was a horrible thing he did, he shouldn't have said it and we all know that and we all know it wasn't her fault. But then i ask people to look at it this way. He'd just lost his love, he was in terrible grief and he horribly picked on Clem as someone to blame which he has been known to do to others when he's upset in previous circumstances, yet despite what he said, he did not mean it and he knew he'd done wrong. He apologises for his actions in the following episode, Clem can even say "i know you didn't really mean it" or if you choose "you hurt my feelings", he'll say even more how sorry he was and that "i know i can be a real shit sometimes". Maybe this is not enough for you to forgive but it was for me, even though i was never really mad at him, just disappointed he acted that way towards me.
I didn't like Arvo. Like, at all and i thought we should've just left him, but the group decided otherwise. Although i may dislike the guy, I do not approve Kenny constantly beating, insulting and thretening him. What was he expecting to acomplish?
It wasn't needed and he shouldn't have done what he did and we all know this and that i felt this scene was just a way to shock the players into seeing how violent Kenny has become and to make more people dislike him leading up to the Kenny/Jane choice. We have to remember though that everything he did to Arvo had a reason behind it. He never did anything for no reason. Again i'm not saying he was right because he wasn't but as always i am looking at both sides here.
When confronted with the group's opinion of heading south instead of mindlessly heading north until the baby actually freezes to death or dies of starvation he starts yelling, saying that the group will do what he wants, isolating himself from everyone else like a butthurt teenager.
Actually, not the groups opinion as you stated because it was only Jane who suggested heading south, Mike was even opposed to the idea of going back to Howe's. But again because Kenny's horrible about disagreeing with Jane or whoever, he's automatically the super villain right? Even though Mike had his own idea, he doesn't get any shit like Kenny does lol. At least he was trying something different suggesting going north with the truck he got working for "everyone". None of the group knew for sure if Howe's would still be overrun either and realistically the baby would have died not long after he was born in my opinion and if they had gone back to Howe's and it was still overrun, the baby could still have died anyway.
The isolating part you mentioned, well Kenny being who he is and his short temper is naturally annoyed that they disagree with his plan because he views it as trying to get them all and AJ somewhere safe. Yeah the plan to Wellington "might be bullshit" as he himself said, but his intentions were in their best interest even though it was very risky and not the best plan in the world.
Kenny then proves, without a shred of doubt, that he is willing to murder someone. He attempts to kill Jane for no apparent reason.
You have to remember that for a long time he never liked or trusted Jane. She had previously acted like she never wanted the baby around or that he would be a problem once born (which was true by the way) because a crying baby in that world is fatal. However, in Kenny's eyes, due to not trusting her, when he saw she didn't have the baby and her saying it was an accident naturally made him not believe her. Yes he had no evidence and his anger took over and he was wrong in every aspect of what he did but again I don't see you blaming Jane for anything despite the fact she caused the fight to happen in the first place with what she did. But i'm not going to go into that again because we all know it will turn into another huge argument.
But what i'm saying is, he did have a reason in his mind to attack her for what he believed she had done. He didn't attack her because he thought "I just don't like you Jane". She fucked with his emotions deliberately knowing he'd do what he did. It's equally as bad as what Kenny did in my opinion.
I shot him, and I'm glad I did.
Well i'll say the same thing i said to EveryonesClemInTime. How does this make you any better than Kenny? Despite something terrible Kenny does, why should shooting him make you a better person than him? It doesn't. It's still murder. Just because one situation "seems" worse than the other isn't always the case. Both outcomes are equally as bad.
Season 1 - Kenny
I liked episode 1 Kenny, he seemed like a nice dude with a nice family. Episode 2 Kenny was chill for the most part of t… morehe episode but then in the meatlocker scene the guy who in episode 1 was devasted for not being able to save Shaw, decided to kill a man based on a hunch and instead of trying to see things from Lee's point of view and understand why he didn't agree to kill a man that could potentially be alive, he decides that it's best to let him die! -100 points of respect for Kenny.
In the very final scene after my Lee decides not to take the stuff from the wagon, he keeps acting like I'm being the vilain looking at me like I'm some kind of monster because I'm not stealing with him!
He leaves me to die once again in Episode 3. You're doing a great job as a friend Kenny! Please, keep at it. When I tell him about Lee's past he then comes with threats saying that Lee's past would come to play when deciding who come… [view original content]
You make it sound like Lee wasn't responsible yet this scene was determinant.
My Lee wasn't responsible. Isn't that clear enough?
However, as always i'll say again, if we are going by this side of things, why didn't Lee see it from Kenny's view either? Regardless if one seems more important than the other, Kenny was scared, rushed into a decision due to believing Larry would turn and kill all of them. Kenny believed he was protecting everyone by doing what he did, again regardless if the decision was rash. He feared he wouldn't get to save his family, they may be held hostage permanently or eaten by the St John's.
My Lee certainly did try to see things from Kenny's perspective, the thing is, my Lee thinks that Kenny's reasons are bullshit because they're all based on a hunch while Lee's reasons for being pissed at Kenny are based on actual facts. Kenny killed a person that could potentially be alive and that destroyed Lilly on the emotional level, can you deny that? And besides, I never left Kenny to die because of something that he actually did, while Kenny leaves Lee to die twice based on something that could've happened.
He states he never liked what he did, he shows regret after doing it by saying he's sorry, he tries to apologise to Lilly as well.
Being sorry is one thing, showing regret is another. he doesn't regret doing what he did to Larry, even after seeing what his actions caused on Lilly. even in the very last episode, weeks after the incident Kenny is there to remind Lee how he wasn't able to deal with 'the Larry situation'.
I'm not nor have ever said it was right what he did, and i have looked at it from Lilly's and determinant Lee's view but it would be nice if people would look at it from Kenny's as well and not just disagree because they hate him for something he felt was helping the group.
Yes, I know your view of this situation and you think that both sides acted wrongly. But you also know from other threads that I think that Kenny was the one wrong on this one. I hope that you also know that I've seen things from Kenny's perspective as well, but it's pretty obvious that if I think his perspective he's wrong I won't be able to agree with him.
Well what do you expect? Dude without sounding ignorant here, are you honestly saying if you were starving in an apocalyptic world and you found a load of food out in the open that you would not steal it because "it's wrong"?
Probably not. I know this may sound stupid, but since I was playing a story driven video game, I knew that they wouldn't kill the main characters out of starvation. They also had the food in the St. John Dairy, that they didn't take for some reason? (And I'm not talking about the human meat! Lol. I'm talking about the butter, milk, biscuits, vegetables...)
But if a man hurts your feelings for telling you what he thinks or looks at you with disappointment, well what can i say to that? He's being honest with you i guess.
Cool. Honesty doesn't make him be less of an asshole to my Lee.
Looking at it from Kenny's view again...
... it's ok to leave a dude to die? Ah! No. It has no justification. You don't leave people to die because you're butthurt.
... supposing your Lee had happened to be against him from day one, how do you think he'd feel? He wouldn't like the guy very much would he.
And you leave people to die because they do not appease you? It's just wrong.
I'm not defending what he did but i'm saying there is always a reason for it.
You're not defending what he did because there's no defense. You know that what Kenny did was wrong.
Everything has a reason behind it. The bad guy kills people because he thinks he's doing what's good, but that doesn't make him less of a bad guy. having reasons behind bad actions doesn't make the action ok.
Again, we're focusing on a determinant choice here because he didn't do this in my play through. I guess our first play through is what counts the most on how we feel i guess.
Well, I think that what a person hypothetically does is still important. What if it was Clem that just suddenly faint in that meat locker with no response or signs of breathing after? Would you help Kenny smash her head? And if you didn't, you'd be ok with Kenny hating you?
Once again, he's still mad at you for the reasons i stated, he probably doesn't trust Lee to be with him on a boat. Yet he appreciates your honesty about revealing the past. The issue here is, hurt feelings. People won't forgive a few harsh words from a guy who speaks his mind. Horrible? Perhaps but there is always a reason why he was and not just because he's a bad person.
But my point here is that, if they somehow find a boat Kenny just assumes that he'd be the one deciding who enters and who doesn't? And again, everything has a reason behind it, but that doesn't make everything ok.
You really look at that scene from an extreme negative view man and I highly disagree surprise surprise.
Well, I'm talking about characters I hate, I guess that negativity would be expected?
Kenny does not "only care" if you help him kill people as you negatively said.
Well, you know what weights the most when Kenny say if he will save Clem or not? Killing Larry and killing Ben. Then comes the times you sided with him and helping put Duck down. In other words, if you don't kill Larry and Ben, Kenny won't come with you, saying that 'you weren't there for him'.
Also if he didn't care about him at all he would not have mentioned how he'll never forget when he took care of his son, did the right thing or was there for him (those are the 3 things he says in season 2 depending if you shot Duck, had him do it or left him in the woods.) He also says "i wish Lee was here" in Ep5 season 2.
I'm so glad that Kenny decides to finally treat Lee as a good person. Too bad he only does that after he's dead. You can also see why he did that right? He wouldn't be saying negative things about Lee to Clem, lol.
But as you know, regardless of what you talked to Clem about on the train, the plan was always going to be the boat.
The game gave me the choice of choosing a plan and then forced me to follow another. If Lee and Clem went to the Marsh House and then followed North, Lee could still be alive since the deal with Clem's parents would be dealt with, and that would mean that Clem would acknowledge that The Stranger was a lying scumbag. And that would result in no Clem running away and no Lee being bitten! I guess you can understand why I feel frustrated.
Can you tell me exactly what scene you vote to treat Omid in the house? Is that near the start of the episode when you first make it in there? Because if it is, i don't recall Kenny reacting like that.
() - 35:37. Choose either 'It's not safe yet' or 'Let's look here for suplies' and kenny will be pissed at you in th next scene I chose 'Time for a plan B' and Kenny was pissed for 'not taking his plan seriously' or not prioritising it... something along those lines! (Same video, minute 40:35).
If you had found out someone had got your family killed even unintentionally you'd feel the same way.
I don't think you can make such claim about me. I would be pissed, sure. But knowing myself, I know I wouldn't lose my temper. I think I could be rational enough, to distinguish what was made intentionally and what was made by accident. Thankfully, no one has got my family killed by accident yet, so I may be wrong.
And besides, I don't even blame Ben for Ducks death. If we're following logic, the only thing Ben did was delay the inevitable.
He was a commercial fisherman who knew about boats which no one else did, it really didn't matter who owns the boat but he perhaps took it upon himself as the owner given his history with them and the fact he was the only one who knew how to fix it up and another reason is that knowing it was his idea in the first place. I do not see a problem with that and none of the group seemed to be against him taking ownership of it. This is just an extra negative thing the anti Kenny fans add to the mix in my opinion. Sorry but it is.
Let me try to show my point of view on the matter with detail.
The boat is found by Clem. The batteries to the boat are found by Lee and Molly. And the fuel is found by Kenny and BrieandLee helps them getting rid of some walkers. We get Brie's help by getting her medicine. Medicine found by Christa, Vernon and Lee.
My point being, Kenny wouldn't even have found the boat if not for Clem (since he was getting drunk). He most definitely wouldn't get the batteries and fuel alone. The boat was something that the whole group contributed to yet Kenny acts like it's his and says that Ben wont have a place in ''''his'''' boat.
And i notice you don't bite Christa's head off for voting to not include him in the boat either?
My Christa abstained?
When you find out someone got your family killed, regardless if it were an accident, you are going to be angry at someone.
Being angry =/= wanting them to die and miking them feel like shit and suicidal? Who does that? That's considered emotional torture. Ben felt horrible for what he did, we all saw that, and all that Kenny did was make his emotional state worse and worse.
Everyone is different.
And I don't like the way Kenny is. Is it that hard to understand?
Despite his "disgusting" ways as you put it, he later forgives him after Ben stands up to him
Forgives him for something he didn't intend to do and something he already felt bad for. And it's not like him forgiving Ben erases the emotional torture Kenny put him through.
and does an extremely noble thing for Ben but of course it's not good enough for the anti Kenny fans who will still hold a grudge for every single thing he does wrong.
So you're saying that just because Kenny does one thing everyone should forget what he has done in the past? I acknowledge that kenny did that one good thing. But you should also acknowledge that Kenny also did bad things as well.
Ok, i'll just say this which relates to my scene here:
"You've always been there for me Lee, always had my back when it mattered. What kind of friend would i be if I wasn't there for you now. You and Clementine are the only family i got left. I'm with you to the end"
Exactly my point! 'Aww Lee, you always did what I told you to! So we're good! ' Don't do what Kenny tells you and the result is a prick who refuses to help a little girl.
But the empathy towards Ben was said AFTER the thing you stated about Kenny saying Lee should have been killed in the attic lol which by the way is another negative view of Kenny from you but again you don't look at why he was "insinuating" what he did. It was a meat locker number 2 scene and again he was worried what might happen if the worst came to the worst but anyway we won't dwell on negativity for now, I think you've stated enough of that lol.
'who did you hete the most' thread. Why is my negativity surprising you that much? Were you expecting to find positivity about characters in a 'who did you hate the most' thread?
Yep but as we know this was a plot line to write Kenny out of the game. Plus, maybe he changed his mind? Maybe he'd decided to commit suicide? Or maybe because he wanted to do the right thing and save the shitbird he hated so much, not to mention mercy killing him so he wouldn't feel more pain that he had to.
It was terrtible writting if you ask me. Kenny could've killed Ben and then come up with Lee to the roofs again, he had more than time for both. But he decided to lock himself down there which makes his previous speech and beliefs questionable.
Episode 2 Kenny was chill for the most part of the episode but then in the meatlocker scene the guy who in episode 1 was devasted for not be… moreing able to save Shaw, decided to kill a man based on a hunch and instead of trying to see things from Lee's point of view and understand why he didn't agree to kill a man that could potentially be alive, he decides that it's best to let him die! -100 points of respect for Kenny.
You make it sound like Lee wasn't responsible yet this scene was determinant. However, as always i'll say again, if we are going by this side of things, why didn't Lee see it from Kenny's view either? Regardless if one seems more important than the other, Kenny was scared, rushed into a decision due to believing Larry would turn and kill all of them. Kenny believed he was protecting everyone by doing what he did, again regardless if the decision was rash. He feared he wouldn't get to save his family, they may be held host… [view original content]
and advocating to leave Lilly behind knowing that she could be raped, shot or devoured
In defense of this one, I think it's more of a knee-jerk reaction to the situation at hand than it is him actually wanting to get rid of her. I mean, they're getting shot at by a ton of bandits, and everyone's holed up inside a confined vehicle. It might sound harsh, but if Lilly kept refusing to budge, there's not much choice other than take off without her, otherwise you'd be potentially risking everyone else getting killed waiting.
Bottom line being, it's just a throwaway line he said while under duress. At least, that's how I interpreted it. I mean, if he really wanted to leave Lilly behind, he could've just locked the RV door or something.
Kenny cannot be expected to act rationally when he is under a rage episode.
However, I would like to point out that, just because he is e… morenraged at a certain point in time, doesn't mean that his actions are in any way justified or moral. Whenever something like this happens—St. John's meat locker, delivery truck driving to Howe's Hardware, Sarita being devoured in the middle of a herd, jumping to the conclusion that Jane killed AJ—it is extremely easy to understand why he acts how he does, since he is easy to read. This does not mean by default that he was right in killing Larry, planning to take the son of a bitch's gun, yelling at Clementine and abandoning her, and killing Jane in cold blood. Numerous people fail to make the distinction, which in return, ends up with forum arguments based off misconceptions.
Whenever he makes an—in my opinion immoral—decision in his right state of mind, such as leaving Lee to fend for himself while he … [view original content]
allowing the cabin group to enter his home and hide from Carver
And telling that they should leave in the morning... minutes after?
successfully got Clem and AJ to Wellington and sacrificing himself at the end.
Agreed, although it didn't happen in my playthrough, and me thinking that the plan itself was really risky for both of the kids.
Why on earth take the risk when your group is held hostage? No offense, but if you had a gun in an advantageous position in Kenny's situation would you really walk around looking for someone instead of trying to protect people?
Yes? You have your group held hostage, if there's one thing you DON'T do is shooting people from the other group and expect the antagonists not to retaliate. By shooting, Kenny got Walter (and potentially Alvin) killed. Had they found Luke, (as my Clementine sugested) it'd be a 3 vs 4 situation where we had the surprise element. You know, thinking!
It'd be like an impulse. I think it'd be hard to just turn away from the people he cared about (potentially being the last time he ever saw them) and look for someone he barely even knew. Kenny was only trying to protect them here and you still make him look like the bad guy.
I'm trying to express why I hate his charcter.
And I'm not saying that Kenny and Clem would leave the group. I said that they should've found Luke. For example Clem goes find Luke while Kenny keeps watch. Then, when Carver and his crew were taking the group to the truck, they could jump on them.
You're surprised Kenny has a plan which has the risk of death in a zombie apocalypse. Are you serious? BTW did they have any other option at the time?
Yes. THINKING! You're really saying that Kenny was right on saying that they should try to fight several armed people with their bare hands?
Yeah I admit Kenny was going a bit mental. He was only trying his best to protect people and is so stressed and mentally damaged it was only a matter of time before he snapped. Instead of hating on him for his disability, why not looking at it from his perspective?
Oh, the usual 'poor Kenny, he suffered so much' excuse. Clem lost her family, so did Nick, so did Luke, so did Jane and you see any of them acting like a moron?
Woah no way, two minutes wasted, they could've found the cure in that time
Two minutes can be the difference between life and death. Betwwen being bitten or not. Between being in the middle of an herd while getting shot at, or not. Acting like 2 minutes is nothing and making witty jokes won't help your point.
I hope you don't support Jane or else that would be highly hypocritical.
You'd be right! I support Jane. On of my favourite characters! But I fail to see how that makes me an hypocrite. Jane isolates herself from the group because she wants to avoid the emotional pain of seeing another kid die or people she cares about die on her watch. kenny isolates himself because he can't barehearing to anyone else's opinions.
And that's a surprise 3 years into a zombie apocalypse because?
All I have to say is what the fuck.
That's your opinion. Don't act like you don't now why Kenny was mad with what Jane did.
How's that my opinion? Kenny did not attempt to murder Jane in your game...? And why exactly was Kenny mad? Because of something that Jane claimed was an accident?
I'm prepared for the hate
I hope you know that I'm only disagreeing with your opinion and that I don't hate you (or anyone that's defending kenny for that matter). I'm not here hating on anyone but a fictional character. We're just having a polite discussion about a video game character.
Taking shots in the middle of a hostage situation is like lighting a firecracker while you're standing in a pool of gasoline. It is not a good idea. It is a very stupid one. The second someone starts shooting, you pretty much sign the death warrants of everyone in the room. We're lucky Carver showed as much restraint as he did; he could have just gunned down the entire line of people when Kenny started shooting.
Trying to bum-rush a bunch of angry people with guns, while you're sitting in the back of a cramped truck filled with other people ain't exactly bright, either. There 's going to be multiple people on the other side of that door, people who are most likely prepared if you attempt to do something stupid. The second you attack one of them, the others will step in. If you're lucky, they'll just knock you out. If you're not, they'll probably shoot you for being an idiot. And in the worst case scenario, the gun goes off and hits someone (or multiple people) inside the truck, if not just flat-out killing them. And in the astronomically slim chance that you somehow manage to get away with doing something this stupid, you still have the rest of the guards inside to deal with, who will likely come running the second they hear the commotion.
But if she (in Jonas's stead) shoots him, Pete kills her in retaliation, at which point, there are no remaining Latinx characters in the game universe.
Yes, it's not as if he stopped Clementine for owning up about the missing radio which inevitably had consequences for himself knowing quite well Clem would have been on the receiving end of Carver's wrath...oh wait he did, i guess this wasn't a nice thing he did?
Agreed, hadn't thought of that.
He got a car/truck working so they could all get to where they were going or at least be able to travel to find somewhere if Wellington couldn't be found but i suppose you'll say that wasn't a good thing he did either all because he's "a meany" at times right?
I'll say it wasn't a good thing he did because after fixing it he claimed that that truck was only going North while the whole group voted that they should head south.
When choosing the Wellington ending, something "good" he did was what he did in the best interest for the kids, wanting them to be safe. Of course it's probably not a good enough reason for you though right?
Agreed, although it didn't happen in my playthrough, and me thinking that the plan itself was really risky for both of the kids.
There is probably more i could think of but i'm in work shortly and will look into it later.
Looking forward to it.
Why did Luke disappear? Because Kenny told him to take a hike? What and he listened to him? I doubt it.
Kenny tells us that Luke was rambling about something and that he told him to take a hike. What's doubtful about that?
Anyway, the point is, at least Kenny was trying to do something instead of running away or doing nothing at all.
I never suggested doing nothing or even 'running away'. I said that they should've tried to find Luke which would give them an advantage.
It's like you said "maybe" everyone could have been safe and sound but what if they hadn't anyway?
But what if thy had? I'm sure if Kenny hadn't shot Johnny, Walter would still be alive. Hell! Even giving themselves up would've achieved a better end!
It's something we wouldn't know for sure but given the fact Carver would have murdered Carlos if Rebecca hadn't revealed her location shows that he would have killed someone if she hadn't shown herself.
Exactly, it's something you wouldn't know therefore using it as an argument is pretty pointless. I think it was pretty clear that Carver wanted everyone to get back to Howe's alive. Kenny's interference made Carver shoot Walter and potentially Alvin. And I highly doubt that Caver would kill the only doctor while his baby was days from being born, just saying.
Yes his stupidity here shows that he was not thinking things through which as we all know is a flaw within himself as shown before
And I don't like that flaw. It's on of the reasons why I hate him. His stupidity puts people in danger several times.
i admit that and i don't mind saying it but saying "too bad he didn't try" implying you wish he had been killed by it yeah? Nice dig there but i guess it was to be expected.
I admit that it would be extremely amusing seeing Kenny try to defeat on 3 armed men and potentially get shot. Not saying he would have to die, but seeing him realising that his stupid plan was, well, stupid would be hilarious.
Then most likely Kenny's stupidity would get everyone else killed as well.
How? No one else was complying or even caring about what Kenny was saying (besides determinant Clem).
In which Jane then added to the plan by covering themselves in guts to get out. It was a group plan in the end but the blame is piled on Kenny as usual because we all want to label negativity to him (sarcasm).
I'm not blaming the final plan on Kenny. I'm talking about his stupid original plan that he was trying to enforce for like 2 minutes before Jane wisely suggested using walkers guts, making Kenny's plan somewhat acceptable.
Oh and I see that as usual, you're trying to use sarcasm in order to make what I wrote seem irrational. I'm not taking these points out of my ass I'm actually trying to back them up with facts and things that happened in-game. So I would like if you could please stop acting like I'm just hating on Kenny because I want to make him seem like a bad guy.
And how long have we known Kenny? We've known his hot headedness for a long time. He comes across as an asshole and has said a lot of horrible things but guess what? His own opinion that he took into account was still in the interest of everyone even if they didn't always agree. Sure it's selfish and i'm not saying it's a good thing how he behaves but there's more to it than him being horrible.
Exactly, we've known Kenny long enough to see his pros and cons. I don't like his flaws, therefore, I hate his character, you, on the other hand, don't mind his flaws and therefore you like him.
You keep saying that it's just the way he is and I think it's pretty obvious that I don't like the way he is!
Wasting time? By the time he finished, the group had only just got out of the building and he shortly followed them and you are actually saying what he did to Carver led to Sarita being bit???? You are actually blaming him for this??
And those seconds could be the difference between life and death... blah blah blah I've mentioned this in the comment above. I acknowledge that having more time could benefit the group or maybe even make their situation worse (as Deltino exemplified) but it was nevertheless wasted time. And the fact that he still does it in front of Clem and later in the game even tries to guilt trip the 11 yo kid for not approving Arvo's beating makes it even worse. 'Lost your taste for this sort of thing?' Jfc...
When he blamed Clem for what happened is as i have said many times. It was a horrible thing he did, he shouldn't have said it and we all know that and we all know it wasn't her fault. But then i ask people to look at it this way. He'd just lost his love, he was in terrible grief and he horribly picked on Clem as someone to blame which he has been known to do to others when he's upset in previous circumstances, yet despite what he said, he did not mean it and he knew he'd done wrong.
Rebecca lost his love hours ago, is under extreme stress and is going into labour soon yet she doesn't snap on Clem. Being mad doesn't make Kenny's actions any more acceptable.
He apologises for his actions in the following episode, Clem can even say "i know you didn't really mean it" or if you choose "you hurt my feelings", he'll say even more how sorry he was and that "i know i can be a real shit sometimes".
'You think because you're a little girl, you can get people killed and no one will car? Just because you're 'sorry' it'll all magically go away? That's not how it works!'
It wasn't needed and he shouldn't have done what he did and we all know this and that i felt this scene was just a way to shock the players into seeing how violent Kenny has become and to make more people dislike him leading up to the Kenny/Jane choice. We have to remember though that everything he did to Arvo had a reason behind it. He never did anything for no reason. Again i'm not saying he was right because he wasn't but as always i am looking at both sides here.
Yep, that happened because the writers wanted to characterize Kenny that way. Tell me the reason why Kenny did that to Arvo? Wasn't losing his sister and friends enough? Isn't being tied up with a group of strangers, without any friends enough? This kind of treatment probably led to Arvo shooting Clem.
Actually, not the groups opinion as you stated because it was only Jane who suggested heading south, Mike was even opposed to the idea of going back to Howe's.
Everyone, besides determinant Clem, was against heading further North. I guess that heavily implies going south no?
Even though Mike had his own idea, he doesn't get any shit like Kenny does lol.
Because when confronted with everyone else's opinions, Mike doesn't start screaming like a mindless animal.
The isolating part you mentioned, well Kenny being who he is and his short temper is naturally annoyed that they disagree with his plan because he views it as trying to get them all and AJ somewhere safe. Yeah the plan to Wellington "might be bullshit" as he himself said, but his intentions were in their best interest even though it was very risky and not the best plan in the world.
But not hearing everyone else makes me question if he really cared about those who disagreed. He was predisposed to take Bonnie, Mike, Jane and Clem north unwillingly and I'm expected to believe that he cares about people?
You have to remember that for a long time he never liked or trusted Jane. She had previously acted like she never wanted the baby around or that he would be a problem once born (which was true by the way) because a crying baby in that world is fatal. However, in Kenny's eyes, due to not trusting her, when he saw she didn't have the baby and her saying it was an accident naturally made him not believe her. Yes he had no evidence and his anger took over and he was wrong in every aspect of what he did but again I don't see you blaming Jane for anything despite the fact she caused the fight to happen in the first place with what she did. But i'm not going to go into that again because we all know it will turn into another huge argument.
Him not trusting and not believing Jane still doesn't make it ok. It's just like in the meat locker, doing things based on a hunch.
I think I've stated many times that I approve what Jane did. From her and everyone else's perspective Clem was Kenny's BFF that would never leave him. Also from her perspective Kenny only had shown her his lack of sense when making plans, his ways of enforcing his opinion like a dictator and how dangerous he is around people he doesn't like or who doesn't agree with him. She wanted to leave him, he wanted to kill her. Is it that hard to understand that she had to find a way for Clem to see how over the edge Kenny was?
But what i'm saying is, he did have a reason in his mind to attack her for what he believed she had done. He didn't attack her because he thought "I just don't like you Jane". She fucked with his emotions deliberately knowing he'd do what he did. It's equally as bad as what Kenny did in my opinion.
Jane didn't know that Kenny was going to actually try to murder her. She underestimated him. In the end, she was right, Kenny was beyond nuts way more nuts than she expected.
Well i'll say the same thing i said to EveryonesClemInTime. How does this make you any better than Kenny? Despite something terrible Kenny does, why should shooting him make you a better person than him? It doesn't. It's still murder. Just because one situation "seems" worse than the other isn't always the case. Both outcomes are equally as bad.
How was it murder if it was in order to save another's life? I'm glad I shot Kenny because that saved Jane's life.
"Murder is the killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse"
(Sorry if I sounded overly aggressive! Writing 3 big comments in a row about the same subject tires my brain and I apologise if that was the case)
I don't reacall Kenny making one good thing in Season 2 besides helping deliver AJ.
Ok let's see here:
* Yes, it's not as if he… more stopped Clementine for owning up about the missing radio which inevitably had consequences for himself knowing quite well Clem would have been on the receiving end of Carver's wrath...oh wait he did, i guess this wasn't a nice thing he did?
* He tried to save everyone back at the lodge despite the problems it did cause, the point is, his intentions were that of something "good". I will elaborate on this in a moment.
* He got a car/truck working so they could all get to where they were going or at least be able to travel to find somewhere if Wellington couldn't be found but i suppose you'll say that wasn't a good thing he did either all because he's "a meany" at times right?
* When choosing the Wellington ending, something "good" he did was what he did in the best interest for the kids, wanting t… [view original content]
Lily made a rash decision and killed Carley, Lee did the same before the apocalypse, Kenny did the same with Larry and Jane, Katjaa made one… more when she shot herself. A lot of people make last second mistakes, sure it was horrible but given enough time I'm sure she would eventually regret it
Kenny killed a person that could potentially be alive and that destroyed Lilly on the emotional level, can you deny that?
I've never denied that but once again potentially is the word here.
I'll explain yet again lol. As horrible as the whole killing was and what it put Lilly through, i think people's safety is more important than someone's feelings if there was a chance her dad might turn and kill her and everyone in the room. Why seriously take the chance if you could die? I'm not saying that to be a shitty person to Lilly but i know I wouldn't want to take that risk.
And besides, I never left kenny to die because of something that he actually did, while Kenny leaves Lee to die twice based on something that could've happened.
Yeah because we play as Lee and there was never a choice to leave him to die. Technically in episode 4 you can choose not to help Kenny when the walker attacks him but that's not important really.
Being sorry is one thing, showing regret is another. he doesn't regret doing what he did to Larry, even after seeing what his actions caused on Lilly. even in the very las episode, weeks after the incident Kenny is there to remind Lee how he wasn't able to deal with 'the Larry situation'.
Well i see things very differently to how you do obviously but we both know that. I disagree. If Kenny shows remorse for the death of Shawn months after the event, i don't see why he wouldn't for Larry even if it wasn't made clear enough to you. He tried to console Lilly before she naturally pushed him away, he tells Lee "do you think i liked doing what i did? I'm the guy who couldn't bear to see the family dog get put down", he tells Clementine in Wellington how he feels ashamed for everything he ever put her through which i think is one of the references to the meat locker scene and all the other bad things he's done. I know you disagree with that as well but oh well right? That to me is remorse. You can think what you like though.
it's ok to leave a dude to die? Ah! No. It has no justification. You don't leave people to die because you're butthurt.
Please highlight where i said it was was ok to leave a dude to die? I didn't.
And you leave people to die because they do not apease you? It's just wrong.
I'll explain it better than i originally did. Supposing your Lee was against Kenny from day one, did everything possible to be an asshole, like not saving his son, agreeing to throw him out of the drugstore to die. You'd hold that against him, you would really despise the guy. Then he potentially helps put you in danger in the meat locker. Again I don't agree with leaving him to die, but i'm saying that his reasoning behind his actions were obviously strong enough to do so. Yeah asshole. My Lee didn't experience that and let me say this, who knows? If i had played my first play through the same way you did, maybe i'd dislike him more but it's unlikely as i'm not a hateful negative person. Even those that have done bad things like Kenny has.
What if it was Clem that just sudenly faint in that meatlocker with no response or signs of breading after? Would you help Kenny smash her head? And if you didn't, you'd be ok with Kenny hating you?
Well first of all that's different and i'll explain why. Clem is a child and a child can be restrained much easier than a guy like Larry if they were to turn. However, smashing a kids head in would be a much harder thing to do than anyone else and even you can admit that simply because its a kid and we react differently to children. No I wouldn't help him do that to her but i think the situation would be entirely different. I think Kenny would treat it differently knowing shes just a kid and easier to deal with. He wouldn't be fearing for his life the same. Lilly and Larry would help restrain her whilst Lee helps revive her.
But my point here is that, if they somehow find a boat Kenny just assumes that he'd be the one deciding who enters and who doesn't? And again, everything has a reason behind it but that doesn't make everything ok.
i never said it makes everything ok and i said the reasons as to why he feels he would decide who enters the boat or not, with all i said about the fact he was a captain of a ship. He probably took charge of a group of people in his past job and this was like a natural instinct for him to take command. Again not saying it's right for him to do that. He should consult with the group but he doesn't but i explained the reasons why I think he treated the "boss in charge of the boat" thing the way he did.
I'm so glad that Kenny decides to finally treat Lee as a good person. Too bad he only does that after he's dead.
Nope not in my play through mate. You seem to disregard that again but never mind eh?
You can also see why he did that right? He wouldn't be saying negative things about Lee to Clem, lol.
Oh so you think he wouldn't say anything negative about Lee to her just to spare her feelings? Yet he's horrible to her temporarily over Sarita's death? Trust me, i think it's obvious that despite their differences, Kenny did like Lee and he makes it clear how he felt about him in season 2.
The game gave me the choice of choosing a plan and then forced me to follow another. If Lee and Clem went to the Marsh House and then followed North, Lee could still be alive since the deal with Clem's parents would be dealt withand that would mean that Clem would acknowledge that The Stranger was a lying scumbag. And that would result in no Clem running away and no Lee being bitten! I guess you can understand why I feel frustrated.
I agree and i would have liked that to have happened as well. Again it was always the way the plot was going to go with the boat storyline though but for sure i understand your frustration. I wouldn't have liked to have split up from people i care about though.
I don't think you can make such claim about me. I would be pissed, sure. But knowing myself, I know I wouldn't loose my temper. I think I could be rational enough, to distinguish what was made intentionally and what was made by accident. Thankfully, no one has got my family killed by accident yet, so I may be wrong.
Well again it depends on the person i guess. But when someone is responsible for the death of a loved one i can see why he lost it. But anyway i said previously that later on he finally sees things from Ben's view and that he didn't mean what he did. Kenny is a guy who realises things later than at first seen/heard.
And besides, I don't even blame Ben for Ducks death. If we're following logic, the only thing Ben did was delay the inevitable.
Partially yes in that sense because the bandits were attacking and then stopped when he started giving him the supplies but he was the reason that Lilly got suspicious which resulted in Lee finding the supplies. In a way Lee was to blame for causing the attack. I suppose if Ben hadn't gone behind their backs and done it though, something differently could have gone down I don't know.
My point being, Kenny wouldn't even have found the boat if not for Clem (since he was getting drunk). He most defenitely wouldn't get the batteries and fuel alone. The boat was something that the whole group contributed to yet Kenny acts like it's his and says that Ben wont have a place in ''''his'''' boat.
Yes i acknowledge that they all contributed and i never said they didn't and as i previously said, it's not ok for him to solely decide who gets in the boat or not but i was explaining his reasons as to why he was acting like it was his boat given his past history as the captain of a boat in charge of a group of people and the fact it was his idea that he was most likely proud of.
My Christa abstained?
She abstains after Clem defends Ben, however it doesn't change the fact that she said what she did in also wanting to leave Ben as well as Kenny and determinant Lee. Just making a point that only one person should not be criticised for wanting to leave Ben.
Being angry =/= wanting them to die and miking them feel like shit and suicidal? Who does that? That's considered emotional torture. Ben felt horrible for what he did, we all saw that, and all that Kenny did was make his emotional state worse and worse.
I completely agree, it was horrible of him and if you remember in a post a while ago i said that i didn't like or agree with everything Kenny said or did and this is one of them. I could understand how upset he was and at the same time some of the things he said were out of order. I liked when Ben stood up to him because it made him realise how horrible he had been to him. That's the thing with Kenny. He's a real shit to a point but eventually calms down and can actually be nice and understanding and show remorse for the way he'a acted.
And I don't like the way Kenny is. Is it that hard to understand?
Nope, your entitled to that. Hopefully you see why i sympathise with the guy though and don't always look at his negatives like a lot of people do. Not saying you fully do that but just saying.
Forgives him for something he didn't intend to do and something he already felt bad for. And it's not like him forgiving Ben erases the emotional torture Kenny put him through.
I never said it did erase what he put him through but if Ben could forgive Kenny then so can I. This is why I personally wish that Ben had lived longer to see if Kenny could have a proper conversation with Ben about how sorry he was for how he treated him and how Ben responded.
So you're saying that just because Kenny does one thing everyone should forget what he has done in the past? I acknowledge that kenny did that one good thing. But you should also acknowledge that Kenny also did bad things as well.
Once again i never said we should forget what he did and you know i have acknowledged all the bad things he has done many times. But we should forgive people who do wrong and not hold grudges. Christian people are supposed to love everyone and their enemies, show forgiveness for the bad things they do and try to help them best they can. This is what i believe and what I will always stand by. You are entitled to hate/dislike any character but for me I'm not like that at all. Even characters i dislike, i can still find positives in them. I certainly don't hate anyone though.
Exactly my point! 'Aww Lee, you always did what I told you to! So we're good! ' Don't do what Kenny tells you and the result is a prick who refuses to help a little girl.
Funny really because he goes with you no matter what when Lee gets back from Vernon's anyway. Yeah he's a "prick"!because another "prick" can determinantly choose not to save his son, who can vote to throw his son out of the drugstore without proper evidence that he was bitten and possibly put his and the groups life at risk when not doing the "hard thing" in the meat locker. Works both ways for me. But none of that happened in my play through so i saw it differently first time and the view hasn't and won't change just as yours won't.
who did you hete the most' thread. Why is my negativity surprising you that much? Were you expecting to find positivity about characters in a 'who did you hate the most' thread?
Yeah the thread itself is negative, i guess i'm shedding some positive light on it or trying to. No the negativity from you doesn't surprise me lol but i noticed you didn't correct your mistake when you said Kenny showed Ben empathy but ruined it by insinuating Lee should be killed when it was actually the other way round with the Ben empathy happening after that. But who cares now right?
It was terrtible writting if you ask me. Kenny could've killed Ben and then come up with Lee to the roofs again, he had more than time for both. But he decided to lock himself down there which makes his previous speech and beliefs questionable.
i agree. I think the saving Christa was much more believable.
You make it sound like Lee wasn't responsible yet this scene was determinant.
My Lee wasn't responsible. Isn't that clear enough?
… more However, as always i'll say again, if we are going by this side of things, why didn't Lee see it from Kenny's view either? Regardless if one seems more important than the other, Kenny was scared, rushed into a decision due to believing Larry would turn and kill all of them. Kenny believed he was protecting everyone by doing what he did, again regardless if the decision was rash. He feared he wouldn't get to save his family, they may be held hostage permanently or eaten by the St John's.
My Lee certainly did try to see things from Kenny's perspective, the thing is, my Lee thinks that Kenny's reasons are bullshit because they're all based on a hunch while Lee's reasons for being pissed at Kenny are based on actual facts. Kenny killed a person that could potentially be alive and that destroyed Li… [view original content]
Murder is more serious than a "bad decision" or "mistake". While I get where she was coming from, her actions shouldn't be trivialized. At least with Doug, it was an accident as she meant to shoot Ben whom she suspected of putting the whole group in jeopardy. She shot Carley for no reason other than taking up for Ben.
Murder is more serious than a "bad decision" or "mistake". While I get where she was coming from, her actions shouldn't be trivialized. At l… moreeast with Doug, it was an accident as she meant to shoot Ben whom she suspected of putting the whole group in jeopardy. She shot Carley for no reason other than taking up for Ben.
And Kenny reacts in a way that is, in my opinion, ridiculous and unjustifiable, therefore, I hate him!
Carver may have given him brain damage.
Brain damage most of the time only affects people on the physical level. Anyways, Kenny had this behavior of not hearing to anyone else's opinions and being irrational since day one even before losing his family.
Looking after Clem and AJ was Kenny's chance to redeem himself (just like with Lee), however everyone was against Kenny and getting in his way, which would understandably make someone angry.
No one was 'against Kenny' per se before the final episode where he reaches the edge. Everyone was trying to make Kenny listen to reason and Kenny's response, even to people who calmly tried to put their opinion, to them was always aggressive, violent, and irrational.
Great make sure to tell me when that happens in an episode
I don't know. Had Carlos been 30 foot ahead of what he was perhaps he wouldn't be shot. That'd lead to a no screaming Sarah, that would lead to an alive Sarita.
Because Jane was a stroppy teen/young adult who isolated herself from the group too.You criticized how Kenny isolated himself from people that hated him.
You missed my point entirely. I criticized Kenny for isolating himself because the group didn't agree with him. In other words, I criticised Kenny because when confronted with the groups opinion he just runs away screaming like a kid. Did Jane run away because the group didn't agree with her? No. So I'm failing to see how her situation applies to Jane making me a hypocrite.
Didn't you literally just criticize the "oh this character has suffered so much" arguement?
I didn't use such argument?
I don't understand
You indirectly said that murder is ok in the apocalypse. Murder is not ok, ok (lol)? In any form or situation.
Cos Kenny would never try to murder someone for "no apparent reason". He's angry, yes, but he isn't evil like that.
But Kenny did attack Jane for something he had created in his mind (Dan explains Kenny's mistrust of Jane very well, look at what he wrote below).
lol what Jane did to AJ was no accident, she planned for that to happen. She risked AJ's life to prove a point. If you don't understand why that would make Kenny mad, I think that just confirms that you don't understand Kenny's character.
But Kenny didn't know that in the moment, did he? All he knew was that Jane accidentally got AJ killed and decided to attack.
From my personal experience, people under stressful situations—such as being in the middle of a bandit ambush and a walker overrun—tend to speak up their mind just as they are thinking the lines through, since there isn't time to craft careful, sugar-coated sentences that do not hurt feelings. Coming from Kenny, this is even more noticeable, given that he is known to be straight-forward about his ideas regardless of what people think about it.
Kenny specifically yells…
Screw her! Let her stay!
…instead of…
C'mon, Lee! We have to go!
…or something along those lines. To me, the first line emphasizes that Lilly should be screwed and left to stay if she won't come downstairs, instead of the fact that him and his family are in a hurry.
So, while I believe that the bandits and the walkers played a considerable role in his line, I also believe that there was definitely a wish to get rid of the arguments with Lilly and Lilly herself, too. Probably not out of a desire to let her be raped, shot, or devoured, but partly out of an underlying want of the arguments with her to stop.
and advocating to leave Lilly behind knowing that she could be raped, shot or devoured
In defense of this one, I think it's more of … morea knee-jerk reaction to the situation at hand than it is him actually wanting to get rid of her. I mean, they're getting shot at by a ton of bandits, and everyone's holed up inside a confined vehicle. It might sound harsh, but if Lilly kept refusing to budge, there's not much choice other than take off without her, otherwise you'd be potentially risking everyone else getting killed waiting.
Bottom line being, it's just a throwaway line he said while under duress. At least, that's how I interpreted it. I mean, if he really wanted to leave Lilly behind, he could've just locked the RV door or something.
i think people's safety is more important than someone's feelings
Agreed, but it wasn't just someone's feeling on the line. Larry could be alive. Kenny potentially murdered him based on a hunch. And would it be that hard to restrain Larry? Couldn't Kenny hold the salt lick on top of his head until they were 100% sure?
Yeah because we play as Lee and there was never a choice to leave him to die. Technically in episode 4 you can choose not to help Kenny when the walker attacks him but that's not important really.
Did I say it wasn't important? That one QTE was what I was referring to. My Lee didn't leave Kenny to die.
Well i see things very differently to how you do obviously but we both know that. I disagree.
What do you understand by 'regret'? I think that if a person regrets something, that person, given the chance, would go back and change everything. Did you ever felt like Kenny would go back on his decision? And that Wellington line was probably about the most recent events, like the Jane incident.
Please highlight where i said it was was ok to leave a dude to die? I didn't.
But you're making excuses for him. That's what I do not understand. You acknowledge that what he did was terrible but try to justify the unjustifiable. I congratulate you for being able to forgive him but some people just won't be ok with a guy that did such things.
I'll explain it better than i originally did.
I already understand your point no need to explain it again. Kenny really doesn't like Lee (even though my Lee stood up for his son in the drugstore), but as I said It doesn't make leaving Lee to die ok. And you even agreed that what he did was wrong.
Well first of all that's different and i'll explain why. Clem is a child and a child can be restrained much easier than a guy like Larry if they were to turn. However, smashing a kids head in would be a much harder thing to do than anyone else and even you can admit that simply because its a kid and we react differently to children. No I wouldn't help him do that to her but i think the situation would be entirely different. I think Kenny would treat it differently knowing shes just a kid and easier to deal with. He wouldn't be fearing for his life the same. Lilly and Larry would help restrain her whilst Lee helps revive her.
Sigh. Let me put the situation this way then. A Larry shaped Clementine faints and shows no sign of breathing. Larry is Clementine shaped therefore he isn't able to restrain the HUUUGE Clem (sorry, I had to xD). Would you help Kenny smash her head? And if you didn't, you'd be ok with Kenny hating you? Because Kenny would hate you if you didn't do it and that says a lot about him.
i never said it makes everything ok and i said the reasons as to why he feels he would decide who enters the boat or not, with all i said about the fact he was a captain of a ship. He probably took charge of a group of people in his past job and this was like a natural instinct for him to take command. Again not saying it's right for him to do that. He should consult with the group but he doesn't but i explained the reasons why I think he treated the "boss in charge of the boat" thing the way he did.
Then you agree that it's not ok, right? I know Kenny's reasons but they rarely justify his actions. I congratulate your ability to forgive him so many times and ignore so much bad stuff he's done but I just can't.
Nope not in my play through mate. You seem to disregard that again but never mind eh?
I've said it and I'll say it again. I'm aware of every other relationship Kenny and Lee can have besides the one my Kenny and Lee had. But if I'm talking about the reasons why I hate Kenny, they'll be based on what Kenny showed me.
Oh so you think he wouldn't say anything negative about Lee to her just to spare her feelings?
Yes. And the convo you mentioned happened while Kenny was trying to get on Clem's good side unlike when he was grieving Sarita.
Kenny did like Lee and he makes it clear how he felt about him in season 2.
Ehhh. ever had a playthrough where Lee doesn't agree with Kenny most of the time? Last week i replayed S1 and I wouldn't say that Kenny and Lee were on the best terms last time they saw each other.
Yes i acknowledge that they all contributed and i never said they didn't and as i previously said, **it's not ok for him to solely decide who gets in the boat or not **
I guess we agree then.
She abstains after Clem defends Ben, however it doesn't change the fact that she said what she did in also wanting to leave Ben as well as Kenny and determinant Lee. Just making a point that only one person should not be criticised for wanting to leave Ben.
Well but Christa voted, she didn't dictate, unlike Kenny.
I completely agree, it was horrible of him and if you remember in a post a while ago i said that i didn't like or agree with everything Kenny said or did and this is one of them. I could understand how upset he was and at the same time some of the things he said were out of order. I liked when Ben stood up to him because it made him realise how horrible he had been to him. That's the thing with Kenny. He's a real shit to a point but eventually calms down and can actually be nice and understanding and show remorse for the way he'a acted.
You know he did bad and you're able to forgive him. I'm not.
Once again i never said we should forget what he did and you know i have acknowledged all the bad things he has done many times. But we should forgive people who do wrong and not hold grudges. Christian people are supposed to love everyone and their enemies, show forgiveness for the bad things they do and try to help them best they can. This is what i believe and what I will always stand by. You are entitled to hate/dislike any character but for me I'm not like that at all. Even characters i dislike, i can still find positives in them. I certainly don't hate anyone though.
And I think this is the root of our disagreement. You are surely a very forgiving person. That combined with the good first impression of Kenny in your first playthrough makes you like him. I'm not a Christian and I believe that forgiveness has its limit. I also have a very negative impression of Kenny and those things combined make me hate him.
Kenny killed a person that could potentially be alive and that destroyed Lilly on the emotional level, can you deny that?
I've never… more denied that but once again potentially is the word here.
I'll explain yet again lol. As horrible as the whole killing was and what it put Lilly through, i think people's safety is more important than someone's feelings if there was a chance her dad might turn and kill her and everyone in the room. Why seriously take the chance if you could die? I'm not saying that to be a shitty person to Lilly but i know I wouldn't want to take that risk.
And besides, I never left kenny to die because of something that he actually did, while Kenny leaves Lee to die twice based on something that could've happened.
Yeah because we play as Lee and there was never a choice to leave him to die. Technically in episode 4 you can choose not to help Kenny when the walker attacks him but that's not important real… [view original content]
I'll say it wasn't a good thing he did because after fixing it he claimed that that truck was only going North while the whole group voted that they should head south.
But he got them a working car and they acted like he just "shit in their cereal" as he says lol (another reason i like Kenny is some of the lines Gavin Hammon was scripted to say was just hilarious. I might make a funniest kenny quotes thread sometime lol) so how is it really a bad thing? I mean he got a car working for them, yeah they argued but still it was a good thing he did for the benefit of everyone though. He didn't just do it for himself. His say on where they go is selfish but only because he felt that his plan for their safety was better which isn't always the case and no it's not right and I don't agree with it before you say it.
Agreed, although it didn't happen in my playthrough, and me thinking that the plan itself was really risky for both of the kids.
Well i guess you have to look at it as that everyone can't be bad in the world they lived in. It was a desperate situation and Kenny wanted them off his hands for their sake. He wanted what was best for them and that was the idea of the scene.
Kenny tells us that Luke was rambling about something and that he told him to take a hike. What's doubtful about that?
What was he rambling about though? We won't ever know. I just question his doubt that he didn't seem to want to help Kenny try and save his friends. I mean why did he disappear really though?
I never suggested doing nothing or even 'running away'. I said that they should've tried to find Luke which would give them an advantage.
Whilst i agree on finding him to give them an advantage, given the situation I don't think there would have been time for him to find him. A guy he hardly knows is hardly a priority when 2 people he considered family (Sarita and Clem) and a guy he's fond of (Walter) are in danger. He wasn't to know and we weren't to know that Carver would or wouldn't kill anyone.
But what if thy had? I'm sure if Kenny hadn't shot Johnny, Walter would still be alive. Hell! Even giving themselves up would've achieved a better end!
As i said above, we weren't to know for sure but yeah i'm sure you are right as well.
And I highly doubt that Caver would kill the only doctor while his baby was days from being born, just saying.
Most likely not. Reason i said it is because if you wait long enough before deciding whether to give yourself up or find Luke/Kenny, Carver says "say goodbye Carlos" with a machete to his throat. Of course it was most likely a bluff.
And I don't like that flaw. It's on of the reasons why I hate him. His stupidity puts people in danger several times.
Hate though? Such a strong word man but if that's how you feel then ok.
How? No one else was complying or even caring about what Kenny was saying (besides determinant Clem).
Because supposing he carried out his plan, tried to grab a guards machine gun which goes off in different directions and kills a few or all the group during the struggle? Or because of his actions they decide to execute the rest of them? Unlikely i agree but even Carlos says "you're going to get us all killed" which is why i mentioned it in the first place.
I'm not blaming the final plan on Kenny. I'm talking about his stupid original plan that he was trying to enforce for like 2 minutes before Jane wisely suggested using walkers guts, making Kenny's plan somewhat acceptable.
Well stupid or not, at least he was trying to think of something to get them all to escape and they all agreed on it in the end with added input from Jane.
Oh and I see that as usual, you're trying to use sarcasm in order to make what I wrote seem irrational. I'm not taking these points out of my ass I'm actually trying to back them up with facts and things that happened in-game. So I would like if you could please stop acting like I'm just hating on Kenny because I want to make him seem like a bad guy.
Sorry, it's not my intentioj, i admit (and you know this) that i get irritated sometimes by some negative things that are said about him when I don't agree. I accept people don't all like him. I'm certainly not one of those people that abuse others for their opinion.
Exactly, we've known Kenny long enough to see his pros and cons. I don't like his flaws, therefore, I hate his character, you, on the other hand, don't mind his flaws and therefore you like him.
It's not that I don't mind his flaws, i do question them and as i have said, there have been a lot of things i've not agreed with and possibly offended by stuff he has said but i look into them, try to understand him and why he says or does certain things. I just can't hate the guy though. I guess a large part of why i like him is his longevity on the series. It's like Glenn, Daryl, Rick and Carol on the show, they've all been around so long and i have an attachment to their characters.
And those seconds could be the difference between life and death... blah blah blah I've mentioned this in the comment above. I acknowledge that having more time could benefit the group or maybe even make their situation worse (as Deltino exemplified) but it was nevertheless wasted time.
But it wasn't wasted really. I think leaving him to live was a risk they couldn't take, if he had recovered from the gun shots to the legs/knees he could have gone after them. They could have just left him to die yeah but Kenny wanted to make him pay for what he did to him and everyone. Rebecca didn't oppose it either.
And the fact that he still does it in front of Clem and later in the game even tries to guilt trip the 11 yo kid for not approving Arvo's beating makes it even worse. 'Lost your taste for this sort of thing?'
Determinant my friend, determinant. He actually warns her that "you don't want to see this, it will get messy" and if Clem stays and watches but then disapproves what he did to Arvo well why wouldn't Kenny question her taste for this sort of thing? I didn't watch in my play through so again i can't relate if you watched it.
Rebecca lost her love hours ago, is under extreme stress and is going into labour soon yet she doesn't snap on Clem. Being mad doesn't make Kenny's actions any more acceptable.
And once again I didn't say it was acceptable but everyone behaves differently in grief such as crying all the time or being angry or some stay very quiet in a state of depression. Kenny lets his feelings be known to people. Cruel but honest i say even if he comes across as an asshole.
You think because you're a little girl, you can get people killed and no one will car? Just because you're 'sorry' it'll all magically go away? That's not how it works!'
Did you not read what i said in response to this quote? He apologises for his actions in the following episode to the way he acted towards her. Clem can even say "i know you didn't really mean it" or if you choose "you hurt my feelings", he'll say even more how sorry he was and that "i know i can be a real shit sometimes".
Yep, that happened because the writers wanted to characterize Kenny that way. Tell me the reason why Kenny did that to Arvo? Wasn't losing his sister and friends enough? Isn't being tied up with a group of strangers, without any friends enough? This kind of treatment probably led to Arvo shooting Clem.
Well it's just as i said, they wanted to make him villainous with his treatment of Arvo. If you want me to tell you why he treated Arvo this way well, in my defence of him (not defending what he did to him but the reasons i think he did it), after Arvo and the Russians held them at gunpoint, Kenny naturally lost any bit of trust he could have had for them and would treat him in a hostile way as he was the only one left alive. Also him letting out his frustration after everything him and the group have gone through probably comes into play. Arvo says fuck you and because he can't control his temper lashes out at him. All unneeded as i have said many times but those are the reasons i feel he did what he did.
Everyone, besides determinant Clem, was against heading further North.
Only Jane questioned the decision whilst Mike didn't want to go back to Howe's either so I guess you could say he didn't agree with either plan. Bonnie doesn't say anything surprise surprise being determinant.
Because when confronted with everyone else's opinions, Mike doesn't start screaming like a mindless animal.
Oh so that makes Mike's opinion ok does it? Just because he doesn't react the same way as Kenny does for "hurting their feelings" for how he feels? Biased or what but ok then, that's how you feel can't say i'm surprised.
But not hearing everyone else makes me question if he really cared about those who disagreed. He was predisposed to take Bonnie, Mike, Jane and Clem north unwillingly and I'm expected to believe that he cares about people?
Then why did he stay? Why didn't he leave them all behind? He had plenty of chances to but he didn't. It goes back to what I said, he got a car working for everyone. Yeah they disagreed on where to go but he still got the car working for everyone's sake. He asks Clem to try and convince them to go North when they talk in the car, why would he do that if he didn't care or want them around? Kenny acts like an asshole to people but i certainly don't think that he doesn't care about them in some way. I remember he looked sad somewhat when Luke died which you could argue is another reason why he lashed out at Arvo.
Him not trusting and not believing Jane still doesn't make it ok. It's just like in the meat locker, doing things based on a hunch
Again IronWoodLover i didn't say that it was ok.
I think I've stated many times that I approve what Jane did. From her and everyone else's perspective Clem was Kenny's BFF that would never leave him. Also from her perspective Kenny only had shown her his lack of sense when making plans, his ways of enforcing his opinion like a dictator and how dangerous he is around people he doesn't like or who doesn't agree with him. She wanted to leave him, he wanted to kill her. Is it that hard to understand that she had to find a way for Clem to see how over the edge Kenny was?
But here's the other thing, Jane could have just left herself. She nearly did the first time didn't she? She didn't leave because she wanted Clem to herself as a replacement for her sister. She should have asked Clem what she wanted rather than forcing the situation on her by showing Clem what he was like. Plus Clem could see what he was like and didn't need her to show her that in my opinion. I get why she did it but she should have thought of something else than putting a baby in danger to make a point. Better still if she cared truly about Clem she wouldn't have jeopardised her friendship with Kenny who was already on edge after everything. If she hadn't staged the whole thing then nothing bad would have happened. It's like keeping a beast tamed.
But because she didn't like him and what he was doing she put herself, the baby and Clem in danger by doing so.
Jane didn't know that Kenny was going to actually try to murder her. She underestimated him. In the end, she was right, Kenny was beyond nuts way more nuts than she expected.
I think she did know. She tells Clem to stay out of it "you're going to see what he really is" and by saying that tells me that it is going to be something worse than just a fight and yeah she was right but again my comments from before still stand. I did not like the way she went about what she did. I could also say she was nuts to cook up a scheme so dastardly in which to prove her point and break up a friendship. But of course you don't see it like i do the same as I don't with you which is finez
How was it murder if it was in order to save another's life? I'm glad I shot Kenny because that saved Jane's life.
Sorry i just realised that this was different to what I discussed with EveryonesClemInTime, i thought it was referring to if Kenny kills Jane and then Clem shoots Kenny dead which is considered murder outright despite her reasons for it but yes killing him to stop him killing Jane is different.
If you don't mind, I think it's best not to talk about this scene again with you. I regret bringing this up or responding to this comment on the Jane/Kenny scene because i feel very strongly about it and i'm sorry to say i'm very against your opinion on this. I just cannot bear the arguments that may follow.
Sorry if I sounded overly aggressive! Writing 3 big comments in a row about the same subject tires my brain and I apologise if that was the case)
I guess you probably think i've been aggressive too over stuff now and in the past but as i have always said, it's never intentional to offend but i do feel strongly when it comes to Kenny and defending him. I accept that he'll never be liked by everyone which is fine but sometimes i do get wound up from some comments. I'm trying to ignore it though
Yes, it's not as if he stopped Clementine for owning up about the missing radio which inevitably had consequences for himself knowing quite … morewell Clem would have been on the receiving end of Carver's wrath...oh wait he did, i guess this wasn't a nice thing he did?
Agreed, hadn't thought of that.
He got a car/truck working so they could all get to where they were going or at least be able to travel to find somewhere if Wellington couldn't be found but i suppose you'll say that wasn't a good thing he did either all because he's "a meany" at times right?
I'll say it wasn't a good thing he did because after fixing it he claimed that that truck was only going North while the whole group voted that they should head south.
When choosing the Wellington ending, something "good" he did was what he did in the best interest for the kids, wanting them to be safe. Of course it's probably not a good enough reason for you though ri… [view original content]
What did you not find clear in that sentence? Most of the time when the brain is damaged the person gets damage at the physical level not psychological. I don't recall anyone getting depressed because they hit their head. Or anyone becoming extremely sad after a certain part of their brain is damaged. I do know about people losing their control under certain parts of their body due to brain damage. Or losing on of their senses like sight, taste or smell.
Is that clear enough now?
You're just describing a chain of events and blaming the result on Kenny. Why not blame Rebecca for potentially carrying Carver's child?
I'm not blaming him. I'm pointing that it was a waste of time. I already admitted that I was wrong of blaming Kenny for that when replying to Deltino.
2 minutes wouldn't have made a difference in this scenario.
Yeah, let's just disregard what I described above! (sarcasm) We don't know what could've happened if Kenny hadn't wasted his time killing Carver in a violent. Perhaps things would've been better. Perhaps things would've been worse, but it was wasted time nevertheless.
I don't care whether someone ran off like a baby or was traumatized by the death of her sister or whatever. Kenny and Jane both, at some point in the game, isolated themselves from the group, so its hypocritical to call Kenny out for that. I don't care about their intentions why.
I'm calling Kenny out for his reasons that are extremely childish not the act itself. At this point, you're basically covering your ears and screaming 'LALALALALA' to everything I'm telling you.
Umm yes you did. You criticized how us Kenny fans use the fact that he is suffering to justify his actions, yet go on to justify Jane actions by talking about how Jane is still suffering from the loss of her sister.
You're right. I criticized that justification when used to justify things such as murder, needless violence and dictatorial attitudes. Sorry I did not specify.
Firstly, Kenny did not murder Jane. I don't care what definition Google has given you. Kenny did not murder her.
Then what did Kenny do? He had no other option but kill Jane right? (sarcasm intensifies)
Secondly, even if Kenny did murder Jane,which he didn't, why are you so surprised? I really do not understand. Murder is so common in the TWD game, and is carried out many times, but once Kenny even thinks about murdering somebody you are disgusted? You are just looking for things to hate about him.
Murder being common doesn't make it ok. And the murderers are usually the villains which everyone hates.
You are just looking for things to hate about him.
Nothing that I'm talking about it didn't happen. I'm not making this stuff up. This happened in-game.
So? That's called thinking.
So? He wasn't sure and attacked without any evidence.
In the moment Kenny thought Jane purposely got rid off AJ, which is the logical thing to think in that situation.
Is it? Explain me what evidence had Kenny to back up that claim.
All the evidence in that point in time points towards Jane killing AJ on purpose, not accidentally.
Again, what evidence?
Oh and personal advice, next time you post try mentioning actual facts that happened in-game and do not make claims without anything to back them up.
Lily made a rash decision and killed Carley, Lee did the same before the apocalypse, Kenny did the same with Larry and Jane, Katjaa made one… more when she shot herself. A lot of people make last second mistakes, sure it was horrible but given enough time I'm sure she would eventually regret it
Agreed, but it wasn't just someone's feeling on the line. Larry could be alive. Kenny potentially murdered him based on a hunch. And would it be that hard to restrain Larry? Couldn't Kenny hold the salt lick on top of his head until they were 100% sure?
As Mark said "the guys all muscle, i know I wouldn't want to be stuck in a room with him" which foreshadows that scene incidentally. Kenny says to Lee "you know how hard it was to get that monster (David/Travis) off of Katjaa and Larry's twice his size". I'd say Larry would have been a problem though yeah but I also agree it could have been handled better.
What do you understand by 'regret'? I think that if a person regrets something, that person, given the chance, would go back and change everything. Did you ever felt like Kenny would go back on his decision?
I'll use the death of Shawn Greene as an example. I assume you didn't talk Kenny down on the train in Long Road Ahead because you'd know one of the options to talk to him about is Shawn and he does show deep regret for it and that what happened to Duck is his punishment for it.
And that Wellington line was probably about the most recent events, like the Jane incident.
Well we'll agree to disagree again.
But you're making excuses for him. That's what I do not understand. You acknowledge that what he did was terrible but try to justify the unjustifiable.
Well because I guess I'm trying to make light of the scene by saying his reasons as to why he did what he did. I just hate looking at it in a completely negative way.
I congratulate you for being able to forgive him but some people just won't be ok with a guy that did such things.
And i totally understand that. I would be very upset with someone if they did that to me but i would have it out with them, ask them why they actually did that and try to settle our differences. I don't like falling out with people or them hating me. It would take a while but i'd forgive them eventually unless we are talking about a Governor or a Negan.
Sigh. Let me put the situation this way then. A Larry shaped Clementine faints and shows no sign of breathing. Larry is Clementine shaped therefore he isn't able to restrain the HUUUGE Clem (sorry, I had to xD). Would you help Kenny smash her head? And if you didn't, you'd be ok with Kenny hating you? Because Kenny would hate you if you didn't do it and that says a lot about him.
Then the situation reverts back to square one. If the HUUUGGEEEE Clem couldn't be restrained and there was a chance she'd turn and kill everyone then yeah i'm sorry as much as i'd hate to do it, I wouldn't want to risk losing my life and everyone else. I admit it would be a harder decision though where as i really like Clem and didn't care for Larry at all even though i still felt bad for his death for Lilly's sake.
If i hadn't done it and Kenny hates on me, well you see, call me a soft touch if you like but i'd brush that off and just think he's being an asshole who will eventually get over it, which he would do.
Then you agree that it's not ok, right?
Yes.
I know Kenny's reasons but they rarely justify his actions.
Maybe so but he still has a reason that you and i can agree or disagree on.
I congratulate your ability to forgive him so many times and ignore so much bad stuff he's done but I just can't.
That's fair enough. I just think it's a shame to have the ability to hate anyone really. I try to always see the positives in everyone. Even Carver.
Yes. And the convo you mentioned happened while Kenny was trying to get on Clem's good side unlike when he was grieving Sarita.
I don't think he said good things about Lee just to get her to agree with him. I think he genuinely meant what he said about how he wished he was here with them and when he positively compared Lee to the way Jane was. Deep down i think Kenny knew that Lee was someone who kept him sane at times
Ehhh. ever had a playthrough where Lee doesn't agree with Kenny most of the time? Last week i replayed S1 and I wouldn't say that Kenny and Lee were on the best terms last time they saw each other.
Basically in the end whether or not we chose to side with him or go against him on decisions from season 1, he still says the same dialogue in a positive light about Lee in episode 2 and 5 of season 2, that's what I'm trying to say.
Well but Christa voted, she didn't dictate, unlike Kenny.
But what she said was still as bad as what Kenny said lol. Just not in an aggressive manner as him.
And I think this is the root of our disagreement. You are surely a very forgiving person. That combined with the good first impression of Kenny in your first playthrough makes you like him. I'm not a Christian and I believe that forgiveness has its limit. I also have a very negative impression of Kenny and those things combined make me hate him.
Again that's fine but it's a shame you feel that way. Not because it's Kenny but just in general.
i think people's safety is more important than someone's feelings
Agreed, but it wasn't just someone's feeling on the line. Larry co… moreuld be alive. Kenny potentially murdered him based on a hunch. And would it be that hard to restrain Larry? Couldn't Kenny hold the salt lick on top of his head until they were 100% sure?
Yeah because we play as Lee and there was never a choice to leave him to die. Technically in episode 4 you can choose not to help Kenny when the walker attacks him but that's not important really.
Did I say it wasn't important? That one QTE was what I was referring to. My Lee didn't leave Kenny to die.
Well i see things very differently to how you do obviously but we both know that. I disagree.
What do you understand by 'regret'? I think that if a person regrets something, that person, given the chance, would go back and change everything. Did you ever felt like Kenny would go back on his deci… [view original content]
He means that he put too much work into helping Sarah stay alive and keeping her strong, and Telltale fucked him over by giving Sarah the most pointless, annoying and rushed death possible, which ruined her entire character arc.
This. As someone who considers Sarah one of their favorite characters, that is one of the only major sticking points with Season 2. I don't know if I'd say too much work, mind you, but the idea is just the same.
He means that he put too much work into helping Sarah stay alive and keeping her strong, and Telltale fucked him over by giving Sarah the most pointless, annoying and rushed death possible, which ruined her entire character arc.
I feel like all of the hate I felt (and there was a lot of it) has died off over time.
But...
* Season One: Larry(you get why)
* 4… more00 Days: Dee (didn't "hate" her but she was my least favorite)
* Season Two: Bonnie(betrayed me...twice), Arvo(ambushed me, and then shot me), Jane(the whole AJ/Kenny thing. I actually liked her until that)
That's all I can remember off the top of my head
What did you not find clear in that sentence? Most of the time when the brain is damaged the person gets damage at the physical level not psychological. I don't recall anyone getting depressed because they hit their head. Or anyone becoming extremely sad after a certain part of their brain is damaged. I do know about people losing their control under certain parts of their body due to brain damage. Or losing on of their senses like sight, taste or smell.
i know im jumping into the convo but please forgive me lol. A lot of the time it's true that brain damage affects someone physically but can also affect someone mentally depending on the damage.
Kenny losing Sarita may have been the straw that broke the camels back, he may have become even more mentally unstable after that causing him to become ten times as aggressive as any other time he had been in the past. The thing is we will never know.
but it was wasted time nevertheless.
i think whether it was 2 seconds, 2 hours or no time wasted it wouldn't have made a difference because the walkers would have already been there. Plus the group hadn't even covered themselves in guts yet so they would have all wasted time anyway.
Then what did Kenny do? He had no other option but kill Jane right? (sarcasm intensifies)
I'm not quite sure why Daze said that lol because it obviously was murder but i think what he was meaning was that Kenny was not murdering Jane in cold blood given that "in his mind" he had a reason as to why he was trying to kill her
Murder being common doesn't make it ok. And the murderers are usually the villains which everyone hates.
Whilst this is true in most cases, i don't consider this for the walking dead given the nature of the world they live in. Rick, Carol, Daryl etc have all murdered people, sometimes for survival, other times in cold blood and i don't hate them. Do you? It doesn't make it good or ok but it is common as you said.
Nothing that I'm talking about it didn't happen. I'm not making this stuff up. This happened in-game.
Again what i think Daze is meaning is that you are focusing on the things to hate him for when not everything he did was bad but yep everything you talked about did happen in the game you're right.
What
What did you not find clear in that sentence? Most of the time when the brain is damaged the person gets damage at the physical… more level not psychological. I don't recall anyone getting depressed because they hit their head. Or anyone becoming extremely sad after a certain part of their brain is damaged. I do know about people losing their control under certain parts of their body due to brain damage. Or losing on of their senses like sight, taste or smell.
Is that clear enough now?
You're just describing a chain of events and blaming the result on Kenny. Why not blame Rebecca for potentially carrying Carver's child?
I'm not blaming him. I'm pointing that it was a waste of time. I already admitted that I was wrong of blaming Kenny for that when replying to Deltino.
2 minutes wouldn't have made a difference in this scenario.
Yeah, let's just disregard what I described above! (sarcasm) We don't know what… [view original content]
i know im jumping into the convo but please forgive me lol. A lot of the time it's true that brain damage affects someone physically but can also affect someone mentally depending on the damage. Kenny losing Sarita may have been the straw that broke the camels back, he may have become even more mentally unstable after that causing him to become ten times as aggressive as any other time he had been in the past. The thing is we will never know.
I don't know enough about what brain damage may or may not cause to a person to disagree with what you're saying. I was just saying that I don't recall ever reading about anything such as brain damage affecting a person at the emotional level.
i think whether it was 2 seconds, 2 hours or no time wasted it wouldn't have made a difference because the walkers would have already been there. Plus the group hadn't even covered themselves in guts yet so they would have all wasted time anyway.
But 2 minutes can drastically change a situation. Had Carlos been 30 foot ahead of what he originally was and Sarah wouldn't have panicked which would mean that Sarita would be alive. Far fetched? Yes, but possible nevertheless.
And I've already said that I shouldn't have blamed Kenny since I'm basing it on a far fetched supposition.
Whilst this is true in most cases, i don't consider this for the walking dead given the nature of the world they live in. Rick, Carol, Daryl etc have all murdered people, sometimes for survival, other times in cold blood and i don't hate them. Do you? It doesn't make it good or ok but it is common as you said.
No I don't hate them. Some of them are my favorites. Thing is, Kenny murders on of my favorite characters based on barely anything. It's quite different when comparing it to the murder of Saviors that are basically bandits that would do the same to them if the positions were reversed.
Again what i think Daze is meaning is that you are focusing on the things to hate him for when not everything he did was bad
And I know that. Kenny also did good stuff, but it's pretty obvious that I would highlight his negatives in a hate thread (and you're right, 'hate' is too strong of a word to be used so casually).
Sorry for not responding to your other 2 comments but, to be honest, I'm tired of talking about this over and over again. I know, I brought it on myself for talking about such a sensitive matter on this forums. Know that I respect and understand your opinion.
What did you not find clear in that sentence? Most of the time when the brain is damaged the person gets damage at the physical level not ps… moreychological. I don't recall anyone getting depressed because they hit their head. Or anyone becoming extremely sad after a certain part of their brain is damaged. I do know about people losing their control under certain parts of their body due to brain damage. Or losing on of their senses like sight, taste or smell.
i know im jumping into the convo but please forgive me lol. A lot of the time it's true that brain damage affects someone physically but can also affect someone mentally depending on the damage.
Kenny losing Sarita may have been the straw that broke the camels back, he may have become even more mentally unstable after that causing him to become ten times as aggressive as any other time he had been in the past. The thing is we will never know.
but it was wasted time nevertheless… [view original content]
Exactly. This was a man, who'd forced numerous amounts of people into a community they had no intention of being in, intimidated them into working like slaves, made a father physically assault his daughter, murdered and tortured who he saw fit and was basically just an awful piece of shit, so I'd say if anything, what Kenny did, wasn't harsh enough.
It's still a waste of time and needless violence when he could've just shot him in the face.
Mmm, I don't know about that. Carver was pretty terrible, and a swift gunshot to the face wasn't a fate he deserved. Too painless.
Omid. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion here, but I flippin' hated the fella. He brings nothing to the group, really and for me, was just annoying. As I previously said once before, I usually tend to hate the characters who have little personality and are just "nice", which Omid fits with perfectly. Another one of those types would be Pete in Michonne, Luke to a lesser extent and Mike before he went full scumbag.
And obviously, I hate Arvo and Bonnie, even before they went up and played their role in shooting Clementine. Strangely though, I disliked Larry, but never really developed much of a hatred for him, at least when compared to most folks' opinion of him. He was unlikeable and a real dick, but he just didn't bother me as much as he probably should have.
Complains about not having food despite the fact that he does NOTHING FOR THE GROUP OTHER THAN PATCH UP A FENCE - WOW - TOUGH JOB TERRIBLE GRANDAD!
Carley and Katjaa were not working on anything beforehand, and Carley wasn't working on anything afterwards, along with Kenny, though he had been hunting. It is not about the job that he is doing, but the fact that he was working.
Is worse than Ben
Is an idiot
I'm glad Kenny beat him to a pulp
Honestly, I do not think that these count as arguments.
Larry
Wow, where do I begin?
* Used to abuse his daughter Lilly (wtf she's still loyal or even cares about him, idk...)
* Basically… more wants to kill a child upon meeting them on the off-chance they may be bitten
* Attempts to murder Lee (WHO SAVED HIS LIFE)
* Doesn't redeem himself
* Calls Carley a b**** with an "itchy trigger finger" after she saves Clementine's life
* Isn't even that nice to Lilly of all things
* Complains about not having food despite the fact that he does NOTHING FOR THE GROUP OTHER THAN PATCH UP A FENCE - WOW - TOUGH JOB TERRIBLE GRANDAD!
Arvo
* Is worse than Ben
* Is an idiot
* Shoots Clementine because he witnessed Clementine murdering her sister who was a walker AS ANYBODY COULD FRICKIN' SEE
* I'm glad Kenny beat him to a pulp
He brings nothing to the group, really and for me, was just annoying. As I previously said once before, I usually tend to hate the characters who have little personality and are just "nice", which Omid fits with perfectly.
Well, that runs into something I've realized fairly recently: what's funny to some people can be tedious to those who aren't laughing.
I wouldn't say he had little personality because there's clearly a little more to him than being Mr. Funny Upbeat Guy. The problem is he didn't really have a real character arc and thus, didn't really get as much development or screentime as he could have that didn't require you to seek him out.
And obviously, I hate Arvo and Bonnie, even before they went up and played their role in shooting Clementine. Strangely though, I disliked Larry, but never really developed much of a hatred for him, at least when compared to most folks' opinion of him.
Larry is a character I actually quite liked despite his flaws. He's there to give you a hard time but he does the job well enough that I can occassionally sit back and enjoy his lesser(or better) traits.
Shameless plug: I actually did a topic fairly recently about characters that don't quite enrage you like the story says they should. Feel free to check it out, as well as contribute to it and its predecessor, which arguably fits your opinions of Omid and Bonnie( assuming you're refering to 400 Days)!
Omid. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion here, but I flippin' hated the fella. He brings nothing to the group, really and for me, was just an… morenoying. As I previously said once before, I usually tend to hate the characters who have little personality and are just "nice", which Omid fits with perfectly. Another one of those types would be Pete in Michonne, Luke to a lesser extent and Mike before he went full scumbag.
And obviously, I hate Arvo and Bonnie, even before they went up and played their role in shooting Clementine. Strangely though, I disliked Larry, but never really developed much of a hatred for him, at least when compared to most folks' opinion of him. He was unlikeable and a real dick, but he just didn't bother me as much as he probably should have.
Well, Brenda seemed to have some degree of wholesomeness and values left in her. Its possible to appeal to that side of her and she does seem to genuinely consider it but unfortunately she was in too deep at that point.
I don't hate any of the characters.....if only because I see things from a psychological point of view. I guess "most disliked" would be the… more St. Johns. They had no excuse for their insanity (not when others are surviving the apocalypse without resorting to cannibalism) and no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Larry would be second because he acts like an a-hole just because he can. Then I guess Kenny, though I like Kenny. He was just realllllllly irritating in Season 2. Next would be "placeholder" characters like Carlos, Alvin, Mike, etc.
@ Gary Oak
As someone who is a bit meh/overratted towards Carley in hindsight, may I ask why?
Also, feel free to post a comment here about it. I'd really like an in depth analysis into it, since its sure to generate a lot of interesting discussion here and/or there.
Comments
You make it sound like Lee wasn't responsible yet this scene was determinant. However, as always i'll say again, if we are going by this side of things, why didn't Lee see it from Kenny's view either? Regardless if one seems more important than the other, Kenny was scared, rushed into a decision due to believing Larry would turn and kill all of them. Kenny believed he was protecting everyone by doing what he did, again regardless if the decision was rash. He feared he wouldn't get to save his family, they may be held hostage permanently or eaten by the St John's. He states he never liked what he did, he shows regret after doing it by saying he's sorry, he tries to apologise to Lilly as well. I'm not nor have ever said it was right what he did, and i have looked at it from Lilly's and determinant Lee's view but it would be nice if people would look at it from Kenny's as well and not just disagree because they hate him for something he felt was helping the group.
Well what do you expect? Dude without sounding ignorant here, are you honestly saying if you were starving in an apocalyptic world and you found a load of food out in the open that you would not steal it because "it's wrong"? I would be thinking of the entire group and not just worrying about someone else's problems as shitty as that sounds. We would all be trying our best to survive. I don't believe for a minute you'd leave the food if you were hungry. But if a man hurts your feelings for telling you what he thinks or looks at you with disappointment, well what can i say to that? He's being honest with you i guess.
I always felt the writers made this an extreme decision and wish it hadn't existed because some people just hold grudges forever but anyway, again going back to what i said. He was "determinantly" upset with Lee, he felt the guy was helping put them all in danger if Larry had turned. Looking at it from Kenny's view again, supposing your Lee had happened to be against him from day one, how do you think he'd feel? He wouldn't like the guy very much would he. I'm not defending what he did but i'm saying there is always a reason for it. Again, we're focusing on a determinant choice here because he didn't do this in my play through. I guess our first play through is what counts the most on how we feel i guess.
Once again, he's still mad at you for the reasons i stated, he probably doesn't trust Lee to be with him on a boat. Yet he appreciates your honesty about revealing the past. The issue here is, hurt feelings. People won't forgive a few harsh words from a guy who speaks his mind. Horrible? Perhaps but there is always a reason why he was and not just because he's a bad person.
You really look at that scene from an extreme negative view man and I highly disagree surprise surprise. Kenny does not "only care" if you help him kill people as you negatively said. If you helped him, the reason he "cares" is because he believes Lee helped keep them all safe. The initial killing was involved yeah, but he likes Lee not because he killed a guy for goodness sake. You really make it sound like he's a monster but I guess that's what you want him to be and how you see him I suppose. Also if he didn't care about him at all he would not have mentioned how he'll never forget when he took care of his son, did the right thing or was there for him (those are the 3 things he says in season 2 depending if you shot Duck, had him do it or left him in the woods.) He also says "i wish Lee was here" in Ep5 season 2.
But as you know, regardless of what you talked to Clem about on the train, the plan was always going to be the boat. I stuck to that plan so i can't really relate to your decision just as you can't relate to mine. I actually really enjoyed that episode. Can you tell me exactly what scene you vote to treat Omid in the house? Is that near the start of the episode when you first make it in there? Because if it is, i don't recall Kenny reacting like that.
If you had found out someone had got your family killed even unintentionally you'd feel the same way. I don't see why this is a negative here because his actions are normal as far as i'm concerned. The moment in which Ben told him was as wrong a time as you can get though.
He was a commercial fisherman who knew about boats which no one else did, it really didn't matter who owns the boat but he perhaps took it upon himself as the owner given his history with them and the fact he was the only one who knew how to fix it up and another reason is that knowing it was his idea in the first place. I do not see a problem with that and none of the group seemed to be against him taking ownership of it. This is just an extra negative thing the anti Kenny fans add to the mix in my opinion. Sorry but it is.
And i notice you don't bite Christa's head off for voting to not include him in the boat either? He was a liability, not a bad kid and didn't mean to cause the problems he did, but nevertheless, a liability. The funny thing is, if Lee doesn't drop Ben, then later on it seems that Ben would be going on the boat with them regardless as there was no further mention of Kenny or Christa saying he wasn't coming on the boat with them.
When you find out someone got your family killed, regardless if it were an accident, you are going to be angry at someone. You may even wish they were dead for it. Everyone is different. Plus he kept putting them all in danger and he'd had enough of it. Despite his "disgusting" ways as you put it, he later forgives him after Ben stands up to him and does an extremely noble thing for Ben but of course it's not good enough for the anti Kenny fans who will still hold a grudge for every single thing he does wrong.
Ok, i'll just say this which relates to my scene here:
"You've always been there for me Lee, always had my back when it mattered. What kind of friend would i be if I wasn't there for you now. You and Clementine are the only family i got left. I'm with you to the end"
But the empathy towards Ben was said AFTER the thing you stated about Kenny saying Lee should have been killed in the attic lol which by the way is another negative view of Kenny from you but again you don't look at why he was "insinuating" what he did. It was a meat locker number 2 scene and again he was worried what might happen if the worst came to the worst but anyway we won't dwell on negativity for now, I think you've stated enough of that lol.
Yep but as we know this was a plot line to write Kenny out of the game. Plus, maybe he changed his mind? Maybe he'd decided to commit suicide? Or maybe because he wanted to do the right thing and save the shitbird he hated so much, not to mention mercy killing him so he wouldn't feel more pain that he had to.
I don't hate Lilly for that. Don't get me wrong, I was very angry with her after she shot Carley, but I did allow her back in the RV. I also liked Carley. (I'm not attacking you for hating Carley or anything. Just wanted to say I still liked Lilly after that)
let. people. dislike. KENNY. i'm sorry, but every single time someone says that they don't like kenny for whatever reason, you reply to them with the same thing. "what about all the good things he's done???????? kenny did [insert humane thing here] so he's good too!!!!1!!!1!!!11111!" PEOPLE CAN DISLIKE KENNY. P L E A SE.
Lily made a rash decision and killed Carley, Lee did the same before the apocalypse, Kenny did the same with Larry and Jane, Katjaa made one when she shot herself. A lot of people make last second mistakes, sure it was horrible but given enough time I'm sure she would eventually regret it
People are welcome to do so. I have never said people cannot have an opinion and im not trying to change their views but i am also entitled to defend the character that I like from being called a "prick" and all names under the sun. If i started bashing a character you like in an extreme way you would react the same way. No need to take offence. I am simply saying that instead of someone just focusing on a negative side, look at the positive as well. There is not enough postivity in the world today
Ok let's see here:
Yes, it's not as if he stopped Clementine for owning up about the missing radio which inevitably had consequences for himself knowing quite well Clem would have been on the receiving end of Carver's wrath...oh wait he did, i guess this wasn't a nice thing he did?
He tried to save everyone back at the lodge despite the problems it did cause, the point is, his intentions were that of something "good". I will elaborate on this in a moment.
He got a car/truck working so they could all get to where they were going or at least be able to travel to find somewhere if Wellington couldn't be found but i suppose you'll say that wasn't a good thing he did either all because he's "a meany" at times right?
When choosing the Wellington ending, something "good" he did was what he did in the best interest for the kids, wanting them to be safe. Of course it's probably not a good enough reason for you though right? There is probably more i could think of but i'm in work shortly and will look into it later.
People are quick to blame Kenny for what was it you said? Shooting random people?? And criticising him for not going to find Luke?? Why did Luke disappear? Because Kenny told him to take a hike? What and he listened to him? I doubt it. Anyway, the point is, at least Kenny was trying to do something instead of running away or doing nothing at all. It's like you said "maybe" everyone could have been safe and sound but what if they hadn't anyway? It's something we wouldn't know for sure but given the fact Carver would have murdered Carlos if Rebecca hadn't revealed her location shows that he would have killed someone if she hadn't shown herself.
Yes his stupidity here shows that he was not thinking things through which as we all know is a flaw within himself as shown before, i admit that and i don't mind saying it but saying "too bad he didn't try" implying you wish he had been killed by it yeah? Nice dig there but i guess it was to be expected. Then most likely Kenny's stupidity would get everyone else killed as well.
In which Jane then added to the plan by covering themselves in guts to get out. It was a group plan in the end but the blame is piled on Kenny as usual because we all want to label negativity to him (sarcasm).
And how long have we known Kenny? We've known his hot headedness for a long time. He comes across as an asshole and has said a lot of horrible things but guess what? His own opinion that he took into account was still in the interest of everyone even if they didn't always agree. Sure it's selfish and i'm not saying it's a good thing how he behaves but there's more to it than him being horrible.
Wasting time? By the time he finished, the group had only just got out of the building and he shortly followed them and you are actually saying what he did to Carver led to Sarita being bit???? You are actually blaming him for this??
When he blamed Clem for what happened is as i have said many times. It was a horrible thing he did, he shouldn't have said it and we all know that and we all know it wasn't her fault. But then i ask people to look at it this way. He'd just lost his love, he was in terrible grief and he horribly picked on Clem as someone to blame which he has been known to do to others when he's upset in previous circumstances, yet despite what he said, he did not mean it and he knew he'd done wrong. He apologises for his actions in the following episode, Clem can even say "i know you didn't really mean it" or if you choose "you hurt my feelings", he'll say even more how sorry he was and that "i know i can be a real shit sometimes". Maybe this is not enough for you to forgive but it was for me, even though i was never really mad at him, just disappointed he acted that way towards me.
It wasn't needed and he shouldn't have done what he did and we all know this and that i felt this scene was just a way to shock the players into seeing how violent Kenny has become and to make more people dislike him leading up to the Kenny/Jane choice. We have to remember though that everything he did to Arvo had a reason behind it. He never did anything for no reason. Again i'm not saying he was right because he wasn't but as always i am looking at both sides here.
Actually, not the groups opinion as you stated because it was only Jane who suggested heading south, Mike was even opposed to the idea of going back to Howe's. But again because Kenny's horrible about disagreeing with Jane or whoever, he's automatically the super villain right? Even though Mike had his own idea, he doesn't get any shit like Kenny does lol. At least he was trying something different suggesting going north with the truck he got working for "everyone". None of the group knew for sure if Howe's would still be overrun either and realistically the baby would have died not long after he was born in my opinion and if they had gone back to Howe's and it was still overrun, the baby could still have died anyway.
The isolating part you mentioned, well Kenny being who he is and his short temper is naturally annoyed that they disagree with his plan because he views it as trying to get them all and AJ somewhere safe. Yeah the plan to Wellington "might be bullshit" as he himself said, but his intentions were in their best interest even though it was very risky and not the best plan in the world.
You have to remember that for a long time he never liked or trusted Jane. She had previously acted like she never wanted the baby around or that he would be a problem once born (which was true by the way) because a crying baby in that world is fatal. However, in Kenny's eyes, due to not trusting her, when he saw she didn't have the baby and her saying it was an accident naturally made him not believe her. Yes he had no evidence and his anger took over and he was wrong in every aspect of what he did but again I don't see you blaming Jane for anything despite the fact she caused the fight to happen in the first place with what she did. But i'm not going to go into that again because we all know it will turn into another huge argument.
But what i'm saying is, he did have a reason in his mind to attack her for what he believed she had done. He didn't attack her because he thought "I just don't like you Jane". She fucked with his emotions deliberately knowing he'd do what he did. It's equally as bad as what Kenny did in my opinion.
Well i'll say the same thing i said to EveryonesClemInTime. How does this make you any better than Kenny? Despite something terrible Kenny does, why should shooting him make you a better person than him? It doesn't. It's still murder. Just because one situation "seems" worse than the other isn't always the case. Both outcomes are equally as bad.
Lilly is not worth the energy to hate. Just like her father.
Lilly's not even a bad person, she's always just thought of the group, she made one bad decision but doesn't everyone?
My Lee wasn't responsible. Isn't that clear enough?
My Lee certainly did try to see things from Kenny's perspective, the thing is, my Lee thinks that Kenny's reasons are bullshit because they're all based on a hunch while Lee's reasons for being pissed at Kenny are based on actual facts. Kenny killed a person that could potentially be alive and that destroyed Lilly on the emotional level, can you deny that? And besides, I never left Kenny to die because of something that he actually did, while Kenny leaves Lee to die twice based on something that could've happened.
Being sorry is one thing, showing regret is another. he doesn't regret doing what he did to Larry, even after seeing what his actions caused on Lilly. even in the very last episode, weeks after the incident Kenny is there to remind Lee how he wasn't able to deal with 'the Larry situation'.
Yes, I know your view of this situation and you think that both sides acted wrongly. But you also know from other threads that I think that Kenny was the one wrong on this one. I hope that you also know that I've seen things from Kenny's perspective as well, but it's pretty obvious that if I think his perspective he's wrong I won't be able to agree with him.
Probably not. I know this may sound stupid, but since I was playing a story driven video game, I knew that they wouldn't kill the main characters out of starvation. They also had the food in the St. John Dairy, that they didn't take for some reason? (And I'm not talking about the human meat! Lol. I'm talking about the butter, milk, biscuits, vegetables...)
Cool. Honesty doesn't make him be less of an asshole to my Lee.
... it's ok to leave a dude to die? Ah! No. It has no justification. You don't leave people to die because you're butthurt.
And you leave people to die because they do not appease you? It's just wrong.
You're not defending what he did because there's no defense. You know that what Kenny did was wrong.
Everything has a reason behind it. The bad guy kills people because he thinks he's doing what's good, but that doesn't make him less of a bad guy. having reasons behind bad actions doesn't make the action ok.
Well, I think that what a person hypothetically does is still important. What if it was Clem that just suddenly faint in that meat locker with no response or signs of breathing after? Would you help Kenny smash her head? And if you didn't, you'd be ok with Kenny hating you?
But my point here is that, if they somehow find a boat Kenny just assumes that he'd be the one deciding who enters and who doesn't? And again, everything has a reason behind it, but that doesn't make everything ok.
Well, I'm talking about characters I hate, I guess that negativity would be expected?
Well, you know what weights the most when Kenny say if he will save Clem or not? Killing Larry and killing Ben. Then comes the times you sided with him and helping put Duck down. In other words, if you don't kill Larry and Ben, Kenny won't come with you, saying that 'you weren't there for him'.
I'm so glad that Kenny decides to finally treat Lee as a good person. Too bad he only does that after he's dead. You can also see why he did that right? He wouldn't be saying negative things about Lee to Clem, lol.
The game gave me the choice of choosing a plan and then forced me to follow another. If Lee and Clem went to the Marsh House and then followed North, Lee could still be alive since the deal with Clem's parents would be dealt with, and that would mean that Clem would acknowledge that The Stranger was a lying scumbag. And that would result in no Clem running away and no Lee being bitten! I guess you can understand why I feel frustrated.
(
) - 35:37. Choose either 'It's not safe yet' or 'Let's look here for suplies' and kenny will be pissed at you in th next scene I chose 'Time for a plan B' and Kenny was pissed for 'not taking his plan seriously' or not prioritising it... something along those lines! (Same video, minute 40:35).
I don't think you can make such claim about me. I would be pissed, sure. But knowing myself, I know I wouldn't lose my temper. I think I could be rational enough, to distinguish what was made intentionally and what was made by accident. Thankfully, no one has got my family killed by accident yet, so I may be wrong.
And besides, I don't even blame Ben for Ducks death. If we're following logic, the only thing Ben did was delay the inevitable.
Let me try to show my point of view on the matter with detail.
The boat is found by Clem. The batteries to the boat are found by Lee and Molly. And the fuel is found by Kenny and Brie and Lee helps them getting rid of some walkers. We get Brie's help by getting her medicine. Medicine found by Christa, Vernon and Lee.
My point being, Kenny wouldn't even have found the boat if not for Clem (since he was getting drunk). He most definitely wouldn't get the batteries and fuel alone. The boat was something that the whole group contributed to yet Kenny acts like it's his and says that Ben wont have a place in ''''his'''' boat.
My Christa abstained?
Being angry =/= wanting them to die and miking them feel like shit and suicidal? Who does that? That's considered emotional torture. Ben felt horrible for what he did, we all saw that, and all that Kenny did was make his emotional state worse and worse.
And I don't like the way Kenny is. Is it that hard to understand?
Forgives him for something he didn't intend to do and something he already felt bad for. And it's not like him forgiving Ben erases the emotional torture Kenny put him through.
So you're saying that just because Kenny does one thing everyone should forget what he has done in the past? I acknowledge that kenny did that one good thing. But you should also acknowledge that Kenny also did bad things as well.
Exactly my point! 'Aww Lee, you always did what I told you to! So we're good!
' Don't do what Kenny tells you and the result is a prick who refuses to help a little girl. 
'who did you hete the most' thread. Why is my negativity surprising you that much? Were you expecting to find positivity about characters in a 'who did you hate the most' thread?
It was terrtible writting if you ask me. Kenny could've killed Ben and then come up with Lee to the roofs again, he had more than time for both. But he decided to lock himself down there which makes his previous speech and beliefs questionable.
In defense of this one, I think it's more of a knee-jerk reaction to the situation at hand than it is him actually wanting to get rid of her. I mean, they're getting shot at by a ton of bandits, and everyone's holed up inside a confined vehicle. It might sound harsh, but if Lilly kept refusing to budge, there's not much choice other than take off without her, otherwise you'd be potentially risking everyone else getting killed waiting.
Bottom line being, it's just a throwaway line he said while under duress. At least, that's how I interpreted it. I mean, if he really wanted to leave Lilly behind, he could've just locked the RV door or something.
Agreed, hadn't thought of that.
And telling that they should leave in the morning... minutes after?
Agreed, although it didn't happen in my playthrough, and me thinking that the plan itself was really risky for both of the kids.
Yes? You have your group held hostage, if there's one thing you DON'T do is shooting people from the other group and expect the antagonists not to retaliate. By shooting, Kenny got Walter (and potentially Alvin) killed. Had they found Luke, (as my Clementine sugested) it'd be a 3 vs 4 situation where we had the surprise element. You know, thinking!
I'm trying to express why I hate his charcter.
And I'm not saying that Kenny and Clem would leave the group. I said that they should've found Luke. For example Clem goes find Luke while Kenny keeps watch. Then, when Carver and his crew were taking the group to the truck, they could jump on them.
Yes. THINKING! You're really saying that Kenny was right on saying that they should try to fight several armed people with their bare hands?
Oh, the usual 'poor Kenny, he suffered so much' excuse. Clem lost her family, so did Nick, so did Luke, so did Jane and you see any of them acting like a moron?
Two minutes can be the difference between life and death. Betwwen being bitten or not. Between being in the middle of an herd while getting shot at, or not. Acting like 2 minutes is nothing and making witty jokes won't help your point.
You'd be right! I support Jane. On of my favourite characters! But I fail to see how that makes me an hypocrite. Jane isolates herself from the group because she wants to avoid the emotional pain of seeing another kid die or people she cares about die on her watch. kenny isolates himself because he can't barehearing to anyone else's opinions.
All I have to say is what the fuck.
How's that my opinion? Kenny did not attempt to murder Jane in your game...? And why exactly was Kenny mad? Because of something that Jane claimed was an accident?
I hope you know that I'm only disagreeing with your opinion and that I don't hate you (or anyone that's defending kenny for that matter). I'm not here hating on anyone but a fictional character. We're just having a polite discussion about a video game character.
Yes; come up with something less stupid.
Taking shots in the middle of a hostage situation is like lighting a firecracker while you're standing in a pool of gasoline. It is not a good idea. It is a very stupid one. The second someone starts shooting, you pretty much sign the death warrants of everyone in the room. We're lucky Carver showed as much restraint as he did; he could have just gunned down the entire line of people when Kenny started shooting.
Trying to bum-rush a bunch of angry people with guns, while you're sitting in the back of a cramped truck filled with other people ain't exactly bright, either. There 's going to be multiple people on the other side of that door, people who are most likely prepared if you attempt to do something stupid. The second you attack one of them, the others will step in. If you're lucky, they'll just knock you out. If you're not, they'll probably shoot you for being an idiot. And in the worst case scenario, the gun goes off and hits someone (or multiple people) inside the truck, if not just flat-out killing them. And in the astronomically slim chance that you somehow manage to get away with doing something this stupid, you still have the rest of the guards inside to deal with, who will likely come running the second they hear the commotion.
But if she (in Jonas's stead) shoots him, Pete kills her in retaliation, at which point, there are no remaining Latinx characters in the game universe.
Agreed, hadn't thought of that.
I'll say it wasn't a good thing he did because after fixing it he claimed that that truck was only going North while the whole group voted that they should head south.
Agreed, although it didn't happen in my playthrough, and me thinking that the plan itself was really risky for both of the kids.
Looking forward to it.
Kenny tells us that Luke was rambling about something and that he told him to take a hike. What's doubtful about that?
I never suggested doing nothing or even 'running away'. I said that they should've tried to find Luke which would give them an advantage.
But what if thy had? I'm sure if Kenny hadn't shot Johnny, Walter would still be alive. Hell! Even giving themselves up would've achieved a better end!
Exactly, it's something you wouldn't know therefore using it as an argument is pretty pointless. I think it was pretty clear that Carver wanted everyone to get back to Howe's alive. Kenny's interference made Carver shoot Walter and potentially Alvin. And I highly doubt that Caver would kill the only doctor while his baby was days from being born, just saying.
And I don't like that flaw. It's on of the reasons why I hate him. His stupidity puts people in danger several times.
I admit that it would be extremely amusing seeing Kenny try to defeat on 3 armed men and potentially get shot. Not saying he would have to die, but seeing him realising that his stupid plan was, well, stupid would be hilarious.
How? No one else was complying or even caring about what Kenny was saying (besides determinant Clem).
I'm not blaming the final plan on Kenny. I'm talking about his stupid original plan that he was trying to enforce for like 2 minutes before Jane wisely suggested using walkers guts, making Kenny's plan somewhat acceptable.
Oh and I see that as usual, you're trying to use sarcasm in order to make what I wrote seem irrational. I'm not taking these points out of my ass I'm actually trying to back them up with facts and things that happened in-game. So I would like if you could please stop acting like I'm just hating on Kenny because I want to make him seem like a bad guy.
Exactly, we've known Kenny long enough to see his pros and cons. I don't like his flaws, therefore, I hate his character, you, on the other hand, don't mind his flaws and therefore you like him.
You keep saying that it's just the way he is and I think it's pretty obvious that I don't like the way he is!
And those seconds could be the difference between life and death... blah blah blah I've mentioned this in the comment above. I acknowledge that having more time could benefit the group or maybe even make their situation worse (as Deltino exemplified) but it was nevertheless wasted time. And the fact that he still does it in front of Clem and later in the game even tries to guilt trip the 11 yo kid for not approving Arvo's beating makes it even worse. 'Lost your taste for this sort of thing?' Jfc...
Rebecca lost his love hours ago, is under extreme stress and is going into labour soon yet she doesn't snap on Clem. Being mad doesn't make Kenny's actions any more acceptable.
'You think because you're a little girl, you can get people killed and no one will car? Just because you're 'sorry' it'll all magically go away? That's not how it works!'
Yep, that happened because the writers wanted to characterize Kenny that way. Tell me the reason why Kenny did that to Arvo? Wasn't losing his sister and friends enough? Isn't being tied up with a group of strangers, without any friends enough? This kind of treatment probably led to Arvo shooting Clem.
Everyone, besides determinant Clem, was against heading further North. I guess that heavily implies going south no?
Because when confronted with everyone else's opinions, Mike doesn't start screaming like a mindless animal.
But not hearing everyone else makes me question if he really cared about those who disagreed. He was predisposed to take Bonnie, Mike, Jane and Clem north unwillingly and I'm expected to believe that he cares about people?
Him not trusting and not believing Jane still doesn't make it ok. It's just like in the meat locker, doing things based on a hunch.
I think I've stated many times that I approve what Jane did. From her and everyone else's perspective Clem was Kenny's BFF that would never leave him. Also from her perspective Kenny only had shown her his lack of sense when making plans, his ways of enforcing his opinion like a dictator and how dangerous he is around people he doesn't like or who doesn't agree with him. She wanted to leave him, he wanted to kill her. Is it that hard to understand that she had to find a way for Clem to see how over the edge Kenny was?
Jane didn't know that Kenny was going to actually try to murder her. She underestimated him. In the end, she was right, Kenny was beyond nuts way more nuts than she expected.
How was it murder if it was in order to save another's life? I'm glad I shot Kenny because that saved Jane's life.
"Murder is the killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse"
(Sorry if I sounded overly aggressive! Writing 3 big comments in a row about the same subject tires my brain and I apologise if that was the case)
Yeah, people hate her for things a lot of other people also did.
I've never denied that but once again potentially is the word here.
I'll explain yet again lol. As horrible as the whole killing was and what it put Lilly through, i think people's safety is more important than someone's feelings if there was a chance her dad might turn and kill her and everyone in the room. Why seriously take the chance if you could die? I'm not saying that to be a shitty person to Lilly but i know I wouldn't want to take that risk.
Yeah because we play as Lee and there was never a choice to leave him to die. Technically in episode 4 you can choose not to help Kenny when the walker attacks him but that's not important really.
Well i see things very differently to how you do obviously but we both know that. I disagree. If Kenny shows remorse for the death of Shawn months after the event, i don't see why he wouldn't for Larry even if it wasn't made clear enough to you. He tried to console Lilly before she naturally pushed him away, he tells Lee "do you think i liked doing what i did? I'm the guy who couldn't bear to see the family dog get put down", he tells Clementine in Wellington how he feels ashamed for everything he ever put her through which i think is one of the references to the meat locker scene and all the other bad things he's done. I know you disagree with that as well but oh well right? That to me is remorse. You can think what you like though.
Please highlight where i said it was was ok to leave a dude to die? I didn't.
I'll explain it better than i originally did. Supposing your Lee was against Kenny from day one, did everything possible to be an asshole, like not saving his son, agreeing to throw him out of the drugstore to die. You'd hold that against him, you would really despise the guy. Then he potentially helps put you in danger in the meat locker. Again I don't agree with leaving him to die, but i'm saying that his reasoning behind his actions were obviously strong enough to do so. Yeah asshole. My Lee didn't experience that and let me say this, who knows? If i had played my first play through the same way you did, maybe i'd dislike him more but it's unlikely as i'm not a hateful negative person. Even those that have done bad things like Kenny has.
Well first of all that's different and i'll explain why. Clem is a child and a child can be restrained much easier than a guy like Larry if they were to turn. However, smashing a kids head in would be a much harder thing to do than anyone else and even you can admit that simply because its a kid and we react differently to children. No I wouldn't help him do that to her but i think the situation would be entirely different. I think Kenny would treat it differently knowing shes just a kid and easier to deal with. He wouldn't be fearing for his life the same. Lilly and Larry would help restrain her whilst Lee helps revive her.
i never said it makes everything ok and i said the reasons as to why he feels he would decide who enters the boat or not, with all i said about the fact he was a captain of a ship. He probably took charge of a group of people in his past job and this was like a natural instinct for him to take command. Again not saying it's right for him to do that. He should consult with the group but he doesn't but i explained the reasons why I think he treated the "boss in charge of the boat" thing the way he did.
Nope not in my play through mate. You seem to disregard that again but never mind eh?
Oh so you think he wouldn't say anything negative about Lee to her just to spare her feelings? Yet he's horrible to her temporarily over Sarita's death? Trust me, i think it's obvious that despite their differences, Kenny did like Lee and he makes it clear how he felt about him in season 2.
I agree and i would have liked that to have happened as well. Again it was always the way the plot was going to go with the boat storyline though but for sure i understand your frustration. I wouldn't have liked to have split up from people i care about though.
Well again it depends on the person i guess. But when someone is responsible for the death of a loved one i can see why he lost it. But anyway i said previously that later on he finally sees things from Ben's view and that he didn't mean what he did. Kenny is a guy who realises things later than at first seen/heard.
Partially yes in that sense because the bandits were attacking and then stopped when he started giving him the supplies but he was the reason that Lilly got suspicious which resulted in Lee finding the supplies. In a way Lee was to blame for causing the attack. I suppose if Ben hadn't gone behind their backs and done it though, something differently could have gone down I don't know.
Yes i acknowledge that they all contributed and i never said they didn't and as i previously said, it's not ok for him to solely decide who gets in the boat or not but i was explaining his reasons as to why he was acting like it was his boat given his past history as the captain of a boat in charge of a group of people and the fact it was his idea that he was most likely proud of.
She abstains after Clem defends Ben, however it doesn't change the fact that she said what she did in also wanting to leave Ben as well as Kenny and determinant Lee. Just making a point that only one person should not be criticised for wanting to leave Ben.
I completely agree, it was horrible of him and if you remember in a post a while ago i said that i didn't like or agree with everything Kenny said or did and this is one of them. I could understand how upset he was and at the same time some of the things he said were out of order. I liked when Ben stood up to him because it made him realise how horrible he had been to him. That's the thing with Kenny. He's a real shit to a point but eventually calms down and can actually be nice and understanding and show remorse for the way he'a acted.
Nope, your entitled to that. Hopefully you see why i sympathise with the guy though and don't always look at his negatives like a lot of people do. Not saying you fully do that but just saying.
I never said it did erase what he put him through but if Ben could forgive Kenny then so can I. This is why I personally wish that Ben had lived longer to see if Kenny could have a proper conversation with Ben about how sorry he was for how he treated him and how Ben responded.
Once again i never said we should forget what he did and you know i have acknowledged all the bad things he has done many times. But we should forgive people who do wrong and not hold grudges. Christian people are supposed to love everyone and their enemies, show forgiveness for the bad things they do and try to help them best they can. This is what i believe and what I will always stand by. You are entitled to hate/dislike any character but for me I'm not like that at all. Even characters i dislike, i can still find positives in them. I certainly don't hate anyone though.
Funny really because he goes with you no matter what when Lee gets back from Vernon's anyway. Yeah he's a "prick"!because another "prick" can determinantly choose not to save his son, who can vote to throw his son out of the drugstore without proper evidence that he was bitten and possibly put his and the groups life at risk when not doing the "hard thing" in the meat locker. Works both ways for me. But none of that happened in my play through so i saw it differently first time and the view hasn't and won't change just as yours won't.
Yeah the thread itself is negative, i guess i'm shedding some positive light on it or trying to. No the negativity from you doesn't surprise me lol but i noticed you didn't correct your mistake when you said Kenny showed Ben empathy but ruined it by insinuating Lee should be killed when it was actually the other way round with the Ben empathy happening after that. But who cares now right?
i agree. I think the saving Christa was much more believable.
Murder is more serious than a "bad decision" or "mistake". While I get where she was coming from, her actions shouldn't be trivialized. At least with Doug, it was an accident as she meant to shoot Ben whom she suspected of putting the whole group in jeopardy. She shot Carley for no reason other than taking up for Ben.
She thought it was Carley and Ben but she was too shocked after shooting Carley that she didn't shoot Ben straight away
And Kenny reacts in a way that is, in my opinion, ridiculous and unjustifiable, therefore, I hate him!
Brain damage most of the time only affects people on the physical level. Anyways, Kenny had this behavior of not hearing to anyone else's opinions and being irrational since day one even before losing his family.
No one was 'against Kenny' per se before the final episode where he reaches the edge. Everyone was trying to make Kenny listen to reason and Kenny's response, even to people who calmly tried to put their opinion, to them was always aggressive, violent, and irrational.
I don't know. Had Carlos been 30 foot ahead of what he was perhaps he wouldn't be shot. That'd lead to a no screaming Sarah, that would lead to an alive Sarita.
You missed my point entirely. I criticized Kenny for isolating himself because the group didn't agree with him. In other words, I criticised Kenny because when confronted with the groups opinion he just runs away screaming like a kid. Did Jane run away because the group didn't agree with her? No. So I'm failing to see how her situation applies to Jane making me a hypocrite.
I didn't use such argument?
You indirectly said that murder is ok in the apocalypse. Murder is not ok, ok (lol)? In any form or situation.
But Kenny did attack Jane for something he had created in his mind (Dan explains Kenny's mistrust of Jane very well, look at what he wrote below).
But Kenny didn't know that in the moment, did he? All he knew was that Jane accidentally got AJ killed and decided to attack.
From my personal experience, people under stressful situations—such as being in the middle of a bandit ambush and a walker overrun—tend to speak up their mind just as they are thinking the lines through, since there isn't time to craft careful, sugar-coated sentences that do not hurt feelings. Coming from Kenny, this is even more noticeable, given that he is known to be straight-forward about his ideas regardless of what people think about it.
Kenny specifically yells…
…instead of…
…or something along those lines. To me, the first line emphasizes that Lilly should be screwed and left to stay if she won't come downstairs, instead of the fact that him and his family are in a hurry.
So, while I believe that the bandits and the walkers played a considerable role in his line, I also believe that there was definitely a wish to get rid of the arguments with Lilly and Lilly herself, too. Probably not out of a desire to let her be raped, shot, or devoured, but partly out of an underlying want of the arguments with her to stop.
Agreed, but it wasn't just someone's feeling on the line. Larry could be alive. Kenny potentially murdered him based on a hunch. And would it be that hard to restrain Larry? Couldn't Kenny hold the salt lick on top of his head until they were 100% sure?
Did I say it wasn't important? That one QTE was what I was referring to. My Lee didn't leave Kenny to die.
What do you understand by 'regret'? I think that if a person regrets something, that person, given the chance, would go back and change everything. Did you ever felt like Kenny would go back on his decision? And that Wellington line was probably about the most recent events, like the Jane incident.
But you're making excuses for him. That's what I do not understand. You acknowledge that what he did was terrible but try to justify the unjustifiable. I congratulate you for being able to forgive him but some people just won't be ok with a guy that did such things.
I already understand your point no need to explain it again. Kenny really doesn't like Lee (even though my Lee stood up for his son in the drugstore), but as I said It doesn't make leaving Lee to die ok. And you even agreed that what he did was wrong.
Sigh. Let me put the situation this way then. A Larry shaped Clementine faints and shows no sign of breathing. Larry is Clementine shaped therefore he isn't able to restrain the HUUUGE Clem (sorry, I had to xD). Would you help Kenny smash her head? And if you didn't, you'd be ok with Kenny hating you? Because Kenny would hate you if you didn't do it and that says a lot about him.
Then you agree that it's not ok, right? I know Kenny's reasons but they rarely justify his actions. I congratulate your ability to forgive him so many times and ignore so much bad stuff he's done but I just can't.
I've said it and I'll say it again. I'm aware of every other relationship Kenny and Lee can have besides the one my Kenny and Lee had. But if I'm talking about the reasons why I hate Kenny, they'll be based on what Kenny showed me.
Yes. And the convo you mentioned happened while Kenny was trying to get on Clem's good side unlike when he was grieving Sarita.
Ehhh. ever had a playthrough where Lee doesn't agree with Kenny most of the time? Last week i replayed S1 and I wouldn't say that Kenny and Lee were on the best terms last time they saw each other.
I guess we agree then.
Well but Christa voted, she didn't dictate, unlike Kenny.
You know he did bad and you're able to forgive him. I'm not.
And I think this is the root of our disagreement. You are surely a very forgiving person. That combined with the good first impression of Kenny in your first playthrough makes you like him. I'm not a Christian and I believe that forgiveness has its limit. I also have a very negative impression of Kenny and those things combined make me hate him.
But he got them a working car and they acted like he just "shit in their cereal" as he says lol (another reason i like Kenny is some of the lines Gavin Hammon was scripted to say was just hilarious. I might make a funniest kenny quotes thread sometime lol) so how is it really a bad thing? I mean he got a car working for them, yeah they argued but still it was a good thing he did for the benefit of everyone though. He didn't just do it for himself. His say on where they go is selfish but only because he felt that his plan for their safety was better which isn't always the case and no it's not right and I don't agree with it before you say it.
Well i guess you have to look at it as that everyone can't be bad in the world they lived in. It was a desperate situation and Kenny wanted them off his hands for their sake. He wanted what was best for them and that was the idea of the scene.
What was he rambling about though? We won't ever know. I just question his doubt that he didn't seem to want to help Kenny try and save his friends. I mean why did he disappear really though?
Whilst i agree on finding him to give them an advantage, given the situation I don't think there would have been time for him to find him. A guy he hardly knows is hardly a priority when 2 people he considered family (Sarita and Clem) and a guy he's fond of (Walter) are in danger. He wasn't to know and we weren't to know that Carver would or wouldn't kill anyone.
As i said above, we weren't to know for sure but yeah i'm sure you are right as well.
Most likely not. Reason i said it is because if you wait long enough before deciding whether to give yourself up or find Luke/Kenny, Carver says "say goodbye Carlos" with a machete to his throat. Of course it was most likely a bluff.
Hate though? Such a strong word man but if that's how you feel then ok.
Because supposing he carried out his plan, tried to grab a guards machine gun which goes off in different directions and kills a few or all the group during the struggle? Or because of his actions they decide to execute the rest of them? Unlikely i agree but even Carlos says "you're going to get us all killed" which is why i mentioned it in the first place.
Well stupid or not, at least he was trying to think of something to get them all to escape and they all agreed on it in the end with added input from Jane.
Sorry, it's not my intentioj, i admit (and you know this) that i get irritated sometimes by some negative things that are said about him when I don't agree. I accept people don't all like him. I'm certainly not one of those people that abuse others for their opinion.
It's not that I don't mind his flaws, i do question them and as i have said, there have been a lot of things i've not agreed with and possibly offended by stuff he has said but i look into them, try to understand him and why he says or does certain things. I just can't hate the guy though. I guess a large part of why i like him is his longevity on the series. It's like Glenn, Daryl, Rick and Carol on the show, they've all been around so long and i have an attachment to their characters.
But it wasn't wasted really. I think leaving him to live was a risk they couldn't take, if he had recovered from the gun shots to the legs/knees he could have gone after them. They could have just left him to die yeah but Kenny wanted to make him pay for what he did to him and everyone. Rebecca didn't oppose it either.
Determinant my friend, determinant. He actually warns her that "you don't want to see this, it will get messy" and if Clem stays and watches but then disapproves what he did to Arvo well why wouldn't Kenny question her taste for this sort of thing? I didn't watch in my play through so again i can't relate if you watched it.
And once again I didn't say it was acceptable but everyone behaves differently in grief such as crying all the time or being angry or some stay very quiet in a state of depression. Kenny lets his feelings be known to people. Cruel but honest i say even if he comes across as an asshole.
Did you not read what i said in response to this quote? He apologises for his actions in the following episode to the way he acted towards her. Clem can even say "i know you didn't really mean it" or if you choose "you hurt my feelings", he'll say even more how sorry he was and that "i know i can be a real shit sometimes".
Well it's just as i said, they wanted to make him villainous with his treatment of Arvo. If you want me to tell you why he treated Arvo this way well, in my defence of him (not defending what he did to him but the reasons i think he did it), after Arvo and the Russians held them at gunpoint, Kenny naturally lost any bit of trust he could have had for them and would treat him in a hostile way as he was the only one left alive. Also him letting out his frustration after everything him and the group have gone through probably comes into play. Arvo says fuck you and because he can't control his temper lashes out at him. All unneeded as i have said many times but those are the reasons i feel he did what he did.
Only Jane questioned the decision whilst Mike didn't want to go back to Howe's either so I guess you could say he didn't agree with either plan. Bonnie doesn't say anything surprise surprise being determinant.
Oh so that makes Mike's opinion ok does it? Just because he doesn't react the same way as Kenny does for "hurting their feelings" for how he feels? Biased or what but ok then, that's how you feel can't say i'm surprised.
Then why did he stay? Why didn't he leave them all behind? He had plenty of chances to but he didn't. It goes back to what I said, he got a car working for everyone. Yeah they disagreed on where to go but he still got the car working for everyone's sake. He asks Clem to try and convince them to go North when they talk in the car, why would he do that if he didn't care or want them around? Kenny acts like an asshole to people but i certainly don't think that he doesn't care about them in some way. I remember he looked sad somewhat when Luke died which you could argue is another reason why he lashed out at Arvo.
Again IronWoodLover i didn't say that it was ok.
But here's the other thing, Jane could have just left herself. She nearly did the first time didn't she? She didn't leave because she wanted Clem to herself as a replacement for her sister. She should have asked Clem what she wanted rather than forcing the situation on her by showing Clem what he was like. Plus Clem could see what he was like and didn't need her to show her that in my opinion. I get why she did it but she should have thought of something else than putting a baby in danger to make a point. Better still if she cared truly about Clem she wouldn't have jeopardised her friendship with Kenny who was already on edge after everything. If she hadn't staged the whole thing then nothing bad would have happened. It's like keeping a beast tamed.
But because she didn't like him and what he was doing she put herself, the baby and Clem in danger by doing so.
I think she did know. She tells Clem to stay out of it "you're going to see what he really is" and by saying that tells me that it is going to be something worse than just a fight and yeah she was right but again my comments from before still stand. I did not like the way she went about what she did. I could also say she was nuts to cook up a scheme so dastardly in which to prove her point and break up a friendship. But of course you don't see it like i do the same as I don't with you which is finez
Sorry i just realised that this was different to what I discussed with EveryonesClemInTime, i thought it was referring to if Kenny kills Jane and then Clem shoots Kenny dead which is considered murder outright despite her reasons for it but yes killing him to stop him killing Jane is different.
If you don't mind, I think it's best not to talk about this scene again with you. I regret bringing this up or responding to this comment on the Jane/Kenny scene because i feel very strongly about it and i'm sorry to say i'm very against your opinion on this. I just cannot bear the arguments that may follow.
I guess you probably think i've been aggressive too over stuff now and in the past but as i have always said, it's never intentional to offend but i do feel strongly when it comes to Kenny and defending him. I accept that he'll never be liked by everyone which is fine but sometimes i do get wound up from some comments. I'm trying to ignore it though
What did you not find clear in that sentence? Most of the time when the brain is damaged the person gets damage at the physical level not psychological. I don't recall anyone getting depressed because they hit their head. Or anyone becoming extremely sad after a certain part of their brain is damaged. I do know about people losing their control under certain parts of their body due to brain damage. Or losing on of their senses like sight, taste or smell.
Is that clear enough now?
I'm not blaming him. I'm pointing that it was a waste of time. I already admitted that I was wrong of blaming Kenny for that when replying to Deltino.
Yeah, let's just disregard what I described above! (sarcasm) We don't know what could've happened if Kenny hadn't wasted his time killing Carver in a violent. Perhaps things would've been better. Perhaps things would've been worse, but it was wasted time nevertheless.
I'm calling Kenny out for his reasons that are extremely childish not the act itself. At this point, you're basically covering your ears and screaming 'LALALALALA' to everything I'm telling you.
You're right. I criticized that justification when used to justify things such as murder, needless violence and dictatorial attitudes. Sorry I did not specify.
Then what did Kenny do? He had no other option but kill Jane right? (sarcasm intensifies)
Murder being common doesn't make it ok. And the murderers are usually the villains which everyone hates.
Nothing that I'm talking about it didn't happen. I'm not making this stuff up. This happened in-game.
So? He wasn't sure and attacked without any evidence.
Is it? Explain me what evidence had Kenny to back up that claim.
Again, what evidence?
Oh and personal advice, next time you post try mentioning actual facts that happened in-game and do not make claims without anything to back them up.
To be honest. I could see Carley getting shot. Lilly was still grieving and Carley pushing her just made it worse.
As Mark said "the guys all muscle, i know I wouldn't want to be stuck in a room with him" which foreshadows that scene incidentally. Kenny says to Lee "you know how hard it was to get that monster (David/Travis) off of Katjaa and Larry's twice his size". I'd say Larry would have been a problem though yeah but I also agree it could have been handled better.
I'll use the death of Shawn Greene as an example. I assume you didn't talk Kenny down on the train in Long Road Ahead because you'd know one of the options to talk to him about is Shawn and he does show deep regret for it and that what happened to Duck is his punishment for it.
Well we'll agree to disagree again.
Well because I guess I'm trying to make light of the scene by saying his reasons as to why he did what he did. I just hate looking at it in a completely negative way.
And i totally understand that. I would be very upset with someone if they did that to me but i would have it out with them, ask them why they actually did that and try to settle our differences. I don't like falling out with people or them hating me. It would take a while but i'd forgive them eventually unless we are talking about a Governor or a Negan.
Then the situation reverts back to square one. If the HUUUGGEEEE Clem couldn't be restrained and there was a chance she'd turn and kill everyone then yeah i'm sorry as much as i'd hate to do it, I wouldn't want to risk losing my life and everyone else. I admit it would be a harder decision though where as i really like Clem and didn't care for Larry at all even though i still felt bad for his death for Lilly's sake.
If i hadn't done it and Kenny hates on me, well you see, call me a soft touch if you like but i'd brush that off and just think he's being an asshole who will eventually get over it, which he would do.
Yes.
Maybe so but he still has a reason that you and i can agree or disagree on.
That's fair enough. I just think it's a shame to have the ability to hate anyone really. I try to always see the positives in everyone. Even Carver.
I don't think he said good things about Lee just to get her to agree with him. I think he genuinely meant what he said about how he wished he was here with them and when he positively compared Lee to the way Jane was. Deep down i think Kenny knew that Lee was someone who kept him sane at times
Basically in the end whether or not we chose to side with him or go against him on decisions from season 1, he still says the same dialogue in a positive light about Lee in episode 2 and 5 of season 2, that's what I'm trying to say.
But what she said was still as bad as what Kenny said lol. Just not in an aggressive manner as him.
Again that's fine but it's a shame you feel that way. Not because it's Kenny but just in general.
Your all discussion game is OP.
I feel like all of the hate I felt (and there was a lot of it) has died off over time.
But...
Season One: Larry(you get why)
400 Days: Dee (didn't "hate" her but she was my least favorite)
Season Two: Bonnie(betrayed me...twice), Arvo(ambushed me, and then shot me), Jane(the whole AJ/Kenny thing. I actually liked her until that)
That's all I can remember off the top of my head
This. As someone who considers Sarah one of their favorite characters, that is one of the only major sticking points with Season 2. I don't know if I'd say too much work, mind you, but the idea is just the same.
Jane is one of the very few characters I can say I truly hate. I even did started a discussion that uses her as the example.
Major reasons include:
Trying to convince Clementine to abandon most of her friends and group members.
Having the blood of at least three characters who would be innocent by her own standards on her hands
Constantly ducking and dodging taking responsibility and facing the consequences.
Dragging down and condemning two of my favorite characters
Endangering the life of a minor just to prove a point
i know im jumping into the convo but please forgive me lol. A lot of the time it's true that brain damage affects someone physically but can also affect someone mentally depending on the damage.
Kenny losing Sarita may have been the straw that broke the camels back, he may have become even more mentally unstable after that causing him to become ten times as aggressive as any other time he had been in the past. The thing is we will never know.
i think whether it was 2 seconds, 2 hours or no time wasted it wouldn't have made a difference because the walkers would have already been there. Plus the group hadn't even covered themselves in guts yet so they would have all wasted time anyway.
I'm not quite sure why Daze said that lol because it obviously was murder but i think what he was meaning was that Kenny was not murdering Jane in cold blood given that "in his mind" he had a reason as to why he was trying to kill her
Whilst this is true in most cases, i don't consider this for the walking dead given the nature of the world they live in. Rick, Carol, Daryl etc have all murdered people, sometimes for survival, other times in cold blood and i don't hate them. Do you? It doesn't make it good or ok but it is common as you said.
Again what i think Daze is meaning is that you are focusing on the things to hate him for when not everything he did was bad but yep everything you talked about did happen in the game you're right.
I don't know enough about what brain damage may or may not cause to a person to disagree with what you're saying. I was just saying that I don't recall ever reading about anything such as brain damage affecting a person at the emotional level.
But 2 minutes can drastically change a situation. Had Carlos been 30 foot ahead of what he originally was and Sarah wouldn't have panicked which would mean that Sarita would be alive. Far fetched? Yes, but possible nevertheless.
And I've already said that I shouldn't have blamed Kenny since I'm basing it on a far fetched supposition.
No I don't hate them. Some of them are my favorites. Thing is, Kenny murders on of my favorite characters based on barely anything. It's quite different when comparing it to the murder of Saviors that are basically bandits that would do the same to them if the positions were reversed.
And I know that. Kenny also did good stuff, but it's pretty obvious that I would highlight his negatives in a hate thread (and you're right, 'hate' is too strong of a word to be used so casually).
Sorry for not responding to your other 2 comments but, to be honest, I'm tired of talking about this over and over again. I know, I brought it on myself for talking about such a sensitive matter on this forums. Know that I respect and understand your opinion.
Larry
Wow, where do I begin?
Arvo
The feels are real..
I actually didn't hate Larry that much.. Ben though got on my nerves and of course Carver was a monster that needed to go.
Exactly. This was a man, who'd forced numerous amounts of people into a community they had no intention of being in, intimidated them into working like slaves, made a father physically assault his daughter, murdered and tortured who he saw fit and was basically just an awful piece of shit, so I'd say if anything, what Kenny did, wasn't harsh enough.
Omid. Maybe that's an unpopular opinion here, but I flippin' hated the fella. He brings nothing to the group, really and for me, was just annoying. As I previously said once before, I usually tend to hate the characters who have little personality and are just "nice", which Omid fits with perfectly. Another one of those types would be Pete in Michonne, Luke to a lesser extent and Mike before he went full scumbag.
And obviously, I hate Arvo and Bonnie, even before they went up and played their role in shooting Clementine. Strangely though, I disliked Larry, but never really developed much of a hatred for him, at least when compared to most folks' opinion of him. He was unlikeable and a real dick, but he just didn't bother me as much as he probably should have.
Carley and Katjaa were not working on anything beforehand, and Carley wasn't working on anything afterwards, along with Kenny, though he had been hunting. It is not about the job that he is doing, but the fact that he was working.
Honestly, I do not think that these count as arguments.
Well, that runs into something I've realized fairly recently: what's funny to some people can be tedious to those who aren't laughing.
I wouldn't say he had little personality because there's clearly a little more to him than being Mr. Funny Upbeat Guy. The problem is he didn't really have a real character arc and thus, didn't really get as much development or screentime as he could have that didn't require you to seek him out.
Larry is a character I actually quite liked despite his flaws. He's there to give you a hard time but he does the job well enough that I can occassionally sit back and enjoy his lesser(or better) traits.
Shameless plug: I actually did a topic fairly recently about characters that don't quite enrage you like the story says they should. Feel free to check it out, as well as contribute to it and its predecessor, which arguably fits your opinions of Omid and Bonnie( assuming you're refering to 400 Days)!
Well, Brenda seemed to have some degree of wholesomeness and values left in her. Its possible to appeal to that side of her and she does seem to genuinely consider it but unfortunately she was in too deep at that point.
Why do you not like Alvin, though?
@ Gary Oak
As someone who is a bit meh/overratted towards Carley in hindsight, may I ask why?
Also, feel free to post a comment here about it. I'd really like an in depth analysis into it, since its sure to generate a lot of interesting discussion here and/or there.