Who did you forgive?
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Banned
We've seen topics such as "Who was your favourite character?" or "Who did you dislike more?" I'm interested in knowing what your capacity to forgive was. Some characters have likeable or possibly redeeming qualities (as someone newly when into detail about concerning Jane) even if they are not a hero or necessarily a "good" character. Whether you disliked them or the writers just wanted you to, did you forgive these characters for their mistakes/betrayals? Why or why not?
Did you forgive Kenny for leaving Lee (determinant) and killing/putting down Larry?
Did you forgive Lilly for shooting Doug or Carley and stealing the RV?
Did you forgive Rebecca for being mean to Clementine?
Did you forgive Nick for shooting Matthew?
Did you forgive Bonnie for lying at the ski lodge and later deserting the group?
Did you forgive Jane for baiting Kenny and lying about AJ's fate/whereabouts?
Comments
I assisted Kenny, so I can't answer that one.
Nope, I left her behind. If we were to meet up with her again, I wouldn't be too pissed at her, but it will be something she has to work hard to amend.
Yep, she made up for it and became one of the better characters of Season 2.
I guess, he did what he thought was right, his intentions were good, but he still shouldn't have pulled the trigger.
I forgave her the first time, but damn it that was a huge mistake. After she did it AGAIN, there will be no forgiveness from me, she's fucking dead if I ever see her again.
Hell no. She wanted me to kill my best friend, I can't forgive her for that. Even in one of my alternate endings, where I went with Jane, I just stayed silent, that way, I still went with her, but didn't forgive her.
I agree with Metallica. Bonnie's going down. No offense.
No, and I don't think I ever will tbh.
On my first play-through, no, I was furious. However, on any play-through afterwards, I do always forgive her. She's honestly one of my favorite characters now.
It never really mattered after episode 1, but yes.
I don't think he did the right thing, but he had good intentions. Yes.
I mean, I was kinda angry at first, but yeah, I did. Lmao, I still forgive her for attempting to leave at episode 5.
I wasn't even mad lmao. I didn't want to stay with Kenny at that point. Even Jane said that she didn't expect Kenny to attack her like that, although I'm not really sure what she was hoping to achieve at the end.
Perhaps I would've if those were his only mistakes, but since he kept making them I never actually got to forgive anything since he never showed signs of improving as a person until the end where he saved Ben (and then in Season 2 he came back and... No, just no.)
Yes, because I know that Lilly wasn't at her best. Knowing her, I believe that, if she's alive, she now regrets it.
Of course! Rebecca was pretty nice after that. I think people underestimate the ammount of pressure that woman was into at the moment. She had a baby inside her! I don't imagine how terrifying that must've been. It could've die and turned any second! Jeez.
No, unfortunately. He died in episode 2, and he died with me pissed at him. So no, I never really forgave him.
What's there to forgive? She looking out for her own group instead of ours? It's not like she owed us anything.
I understand her actions in Episode 5. I too would've wanted to get away from Kenny. The only thing that pissed me about it is that they didn't asked Clem and Jane to go with them in the first place. When I asked to go with them she seemed ok with it and after I got shot by Arvo she seemed really worried.
Yes. I understand why she did it. The plan was kinda shitty since she seriously underestimated Kenny (and that lead to her death in many playthroughs). Had the game allowed me to say that I wanted to leave with her when she asked it would've all gone differently.
I sided with Kenny at this point so I have no answer for this
No, I left her behind. If I meet her again, I dunno how I will proceed
Yeah I did, I never expected that.
What he did was a mistake but he had good intentions
First time, yeah but after betraying again, fuck no. She is dead if I see her again
Hell no. She wanted me to kill my best buddy and almost got AJ killed by hyphotermia. I will never forgive her for that. Bitch had it coming.
Yeah. I always thought Kenny had good intentions, but he never exactly had the best means of carrying them out.
Fuck no. That bitch can get hit by a truck for all I care.
Sorta. They only briefly introduced a rivalry between the two so I guess I can't be too mad at her.
Yeah. Not saying what he did was right, but kinda like Kenny, he has good intentions but just doesn't provide the best means of carrying them out.
I forgave her for lying at the lodge because I knew she was pretty reluctant and I pretty much guessed her basic character arc. I was more pissed at her when she condemned me for not saving Luke and her saying, "You're a little girl. Nobody expects you to do a damn thing." Bitch, Clementine did more for the group more than you ever have. In fact, she did pretty much fucking everything for the group. So you can be mad at Clem all you want, but saying that nobody expects her to do anything is complete and utter bullshit. So I was more pissed about that than her stealing the car. I lost respect for Bonnie at that point.
No. She manipulated Clementine into killing her friend just to prove a point. (An incredibly flawed point I should add.) I didn't hesitate for a second to leave her behind at the rest stop.
Yes, I understand he was trying to look out for everyone cause he though Larry was going to turn. I don't however agree with the way he handled it.
The first time no I left her behind, the second time I realized she was not in her right frame of mind she had just lost her Father and was emotionally vulnerable.
Yes, given she was pregnant her emotions are understandable because when your pregnant your moods tend to change and vary rather quickly. Plus given the situation and how dangerous it was she was just worried about the safety of her child.
Yes, Nick was just looking out for the safety of Clem and Luke, he was far away and only saw that Matthew had a rifle so he could not of known if he was dangerous or not so he acted on impulse which is natural.
For lying yes, but as far as deserting the group I would want to know why she did it.
This is a hard one, She knew how Kenny would react given his temper and was aware that if it was found out something happened to AJ it would set him off. I have mixed feelings about this one.
I would've forgiven him but in my play-through, he left Lee behind(almost to die) at several points in time and although I understood his intentions for killing Larry, he didn't evaluate the situation very rationally in my perspective - he didn't give Lee and Lilly a chance to at least try and save Larry and he made it a pretty traumatic experience in a confined room for Lilly and Clementine, considering he killed Larry in cold blood in front of them with little hesitation.
Although Carley does provoke Lilly, I still didn't forgive her for that. I feel I can forgive her slightly more if it's Doug who's shot, only because it wasn't her intention. I was hoping that taking Lilly would result in her redemption of sorts. I can't say that I don't understand her actions or paranoia, not only was she practically isolated within the group with her leadership being challenged and everyone calling her paranoid when she's really being cautious but she also lost her father, the one person she cared about, not that long ago. I disliked how Kenny pinned her as a murderer when he himself murdered a man out of cold blood and attempted to let Lee died multiple times and left Shawn to die as well. As for actually stealing the R.V., well, I always pretty much let her have it without a hassle since we got a train.
Yeah, I don't think it would be easy for everyone to just accept a new member to the group without showing some skepticism, especially since Rebecca faces multiple dilemmas - she doesn't know who the real father of her baby is, she's afraid of getting killed and found by Carver, she's stressing over bringing a baby into a post-apocalyptic world and determinantly, she has Clementine's threats to worry about. In the end she apologized and put her trust and faith in Clementine, so definitely forgave her for that.
No, although I can understand that Nick may have had some good intentions and that he had just lost Pete, in this situation, he shot a stranger with little hesitation despite Clementine and Luke's attempts to stop him. He acted very irrationally and I'm pretty sure that Luke told him not to cross the bridge with them earlier. I was hoping he'd get a redemption as well and I'd like to think that he sort of did, I feel that when he, Luke and Sarah were stuck in the trailer, Nick might've braved the horde in search for help but died before he could reach someone.
Not really. I can kind of forgive her for the Ski Lodge lie because overall it wasn't her fault that people died - that was due to Kenny and Carver, although I wasn't very happy about it at all, I think that Carver likely would've check the Ski Lodge for himself regardless. In terms of her deserting the group, whilst I can understand Bonnie leaving the group if Clementine doesn't try to save Luke herself - as that means Bonnie is left in a group filled with people she dislikes or distrusts, I don't really understand why she'd leave and take off with the rest of the supplies with Mike and Arvo if Clementine tried to save Luke under Bonnie's demand and almost died in subzero temperature. It doesn't make much sense if Bonnie still likes Clementine, what was the point in all those Bonnie and Clementine moments if Bonnie just leaves regardless? I don't forgive her for the deserting the group, mostly because she stole the rest of the supplies and practically tried to kill the group that way.
Whilst I do think it was irrational and manipulative that Jane did that, I actually knew what she was doing as soon as Kenny went to search for AJ and so I was interested to see how it played out, I was hoping that Kenny would come in and ask Clementine and Jane to help search for AJ but instead he walks into the Pit Stop and accuses Jane of murder as though he had seen AJ dead himself. Although at this point in time, Jane just returned from a blizzard, so AJ could've died of cold(he seems immune to it thought), surprise walkers attacks or could've easily been lost but Kenny just comes to the assumption of murder which I didn't really like, I wanted Jane to explain herself and I thought the two were going to talk it out when Jane sheathed her dagger but then Kenny lunged at her, initiating the fight. I do agree that what Jane did was pretty wrong but I can't say that her point held little value, in my opinion, it proved how dangerous and irrational Kenny is - as he's always kind of been. I forgave Jane because I understood her intent, not only that but the fact that she didn't start the actual fight made me lean more towards her side, if Jane had attacked Kenny first, I might've been less inclined to side with Jane but then again, Kenny attempts to kill Jane without letting her explain the AJ situation. In the end, I think it would've been nice to have had the option to have both of them survive or even have Clementine just leave during the fight.
Nope.
Sure. She'll have to damn well earn it though.
Already have.
No. In fact, I told Walter straight up that Nick's stupidity was a threat and left the rest up to him.
Fuck Bonnie.
Nah. Extreme stupidity isn't exactly forgivable.
(?) Bonnie is offended by your comment.
@zombiebonnie back at it again with the great topics!
I completely understand why he proceeded that way, even though I helped a grieving Lilly by performing chest compressions on her father. Larry reanimating was a possibility, considering that, at that point, nobody knew for sure whether he would reanimate or come back to life—and I am not even sure that a person under a heart attack would be able to rehabilitate in the middle of a locked storage room. There were better ways to take action—such as placing one salt lick on his legs, and tell Lilly and Kenny to hold another salt lick over his head while Lee does chest compressions—but I do not expect Kenny to think that in that situation.
So yes—you could say that I have forgiven him.
I abhor the fact that he never understands why Lilly is furious at him. He does not appear to have realized that there were better ways seven days later. I dislike this aspect about him. He never realizes that he acted wrong in the past.
I wouldn't know if I've forgiven him, but I will never forget that he is willing to leave someone to die for disagreeing with them under an extreme, ambiguous situation. He probably was mad that Lee left him to carry all the blame and guilt on his shoulders, but you simply can't leave people to die for that.
I have forgiven Lilly for shooting Carley, although I deeply hold that it was immoral, and wrong, to have done so. Lilly must've had an unimaginable amount of loneliness, sorrow, lack of recognition and insecurity within her, and we have seen what that linked onto.
I have not forgiven her for having a bad aim toward Ben. Not only would Doug be alive, but Ben would not have had to go through the constant guilt-tripping on Kenny's side, and subsequent four-story fall and devouring, or alternatively, impaling through the thorax. It is possible that Ben himself felt guilty over what Lilly did to Carley, too, since the latter would not have been killed if he had confessed.
I understand why she did that, but I do not forgive her for it. This is strangely due to the fact that Katjaa was dealing with the loss of her bitten son, and being left in the middle of the woods is the last thing that you need on your plate. Strange, I know, but what can I say. The human mind is weird.
Hell yes. Even before "A House Divided" was released. I would not want a sudden pre-teen with a bitten arm sleeping under the same roof as me, considering that my group is being chased by the man I had an affair with. Clementine could have been a spy, and even if she wasn't, she was draining the crew's resources. And she convinced my husband of lying to me. And I am pregnant, so I am edgy.
Nick had good intentions, and although I forgive him because I understand that he was under grief and depression, and he was also hot-headed, I believe that it was just wrong. Nothing will change my mind—Matthew didn't deserve to die.
However, nobody in the game nor the forums ever said that he did, so I don't know why I thought that this would make a good argument. Oh, well.
[to be added in a following comment]
Edit explanation
Some rephrasing and expansion on Nick shooting Matthew.
Will she remember that?
No, and that's the reason I killed him in season two. I'm still bitter because about that. But I don't care about Larry.
I was still mad at Kenny for leaving Lee in episode five that it followed through the entire of season two. So yeah, I did forgive her.
Huh. Surprised Ben isn't on this list. Then again, it might have been too obvious. Nice topic though!
I honestly never gave it much thought. I still think he was a dick for doing that, but eh. Too many other things to worry about.
The Larry thing was screwed up but it wasn't me he needed to forgive him for that.
Not really. Her going against her own rules and deciding to flat out kill Ben or Carley crossed a line that I took personal. I understand that she wasn't exactly sound of mind at the time and I'm truly sorry about that, but when Doug hit the pavement, we hit the road--without her.
Muh? I guess technically yes because I always thought the occasional hatred I've seen for her was a tad unfounded. Then again, that creepy moment where Clementine got her to zip it in Episode 1 was cathartic enough. Plus, it takes a lot of character to own up to your mistakes/misdeeds and I respect that.
I didn't really care honestly. Again, that was his action that he had to answer for. Though I was sad that Matthew got himself shot because Nick was overzealous.
This is a weird one. I think Bonnie genuinely didn't intend for there to be any bloodshed at the ski lodge (plus, I think its hilarious that the VA didn't even know that she was supposed to be spying on the Cabin and Ski Groups) and she could've gotten popped by Kenny at any point, so I didn't hold it against her for long.
On the later incident, though, it seemed pretty obvious to me that she has smorgasborg of problems; whether I can forgive her or not is arguably the least of them.
No. Is this a trick question? Cause its difficult to side with Jane when the odds are essentially this.
Also, using a baby to intentionally provoke someone into playing into your hands is low down no matter how you look at it.
Well, I never experienced Kenny attempting to leave Lee, so I really couldn't say. Though had I not went the route in creating a friendship with Kenny, I probably wouldn't have forgave him and can completely understand why some hold it against him. On the topic of Larry, yeah I forgive him for that and considering I went along with it, my Lee held just as much responsibility for the situation's outcome.
To be honest, yeah I did. She'd just lost her father, the only family she had, in an exceptionally brutal fashion right in front of her through murder, which my Lee had technically (along with Kenny) committed. So, while I was seriously pissed off and upset she'd killed Carley, a character I'd grown to really like, I couldn't just leave her to die in the middle of nowhere when I'd agreed to killing her father. I'd wronged her, so in a way, letting her stay on the RV was my way to say sorry. Speaking of the RV, I forgave her for stealing it as well. She was stuck in a group, who essentially hated her now, so she owed them nothing and did the logical thing- ensure her own survival. Was it ruthless leaving the children behind? Yeah, it was, but it was no longer Lilly's responsibility, so I can't hate her for it either.
I don't have enough of an opinion or much care for Rebecca's character, so even when she'd gone and gotten herself a personality transplant within a few hours, I still didn't really forgive her for being a bitch that first time. I didn't hold it against her or anything, but at the same time, I never found myself moving past how she'd behaved. I guess first impressions stick with me. But yeah, I don't feel really anything for the character, so didn't care all too much.
Yup. Didn't give two shits about Matthew, so I can forgive Nick for killing him. It was an accident, anyway, so no need to hold grudges.
No. Bonnie was a character I for some reason, automatically disliked and distrusted. Maybe, it was because she'd previously worked with Carver and had been shown to be a capable liar in her first real role in the story, so it stuck with me. I didn't find her all that likable either, so when she, Mike and Arvo did what they did, it just gave me more reasons to hate her.
Yeah, no. In no situation imaginable, can leaving a baby to potentially die just to simply prove a point and take advantage of man's declining mental state, suddenly become justifiable or in any way, forgivable. I don't hate Jane for it, but at the same time, I can't forgive her for it either, considering her intention was to try and kill Kenny, who for my Clem, was a friend.
EDIT: Fixed one of the bold texts.
I forgave everyone because I have no time to be holding grudges. Their mistakes and their regrets - not mine.
I love this.
(?) Bonnie won't forget what you said.
I think you forgot one - Did you forgive Nick from almost killing Clem?
Me? I didn't forgive him the first time. He seemed over the edge and I couldn't like him that he nearly shot Clem to her face. I didn't like Nick for shooting Matthew either.
Nope. I never like Lilly from the start. I knew she was gonna flip out and lose it. And I liked Carley.
Yeah I actually did forgive her. I knew it was tough her with carrying a child and all that through an apocalypse.
I can't say why because I don't recall knowing what her motives were. But if I had to forgive her I probaly wouldn't.
No I didn't. But on my second playthrough I still went with her anyway even if I didn't forgive her.
There are other characters I forgave (or didn't), but they weren't asked about.
I think the main reason Kenny acts like this is because he's convinced that he did what he had to in that situation. It's his way of coping with what he did. He can't handle dealing with the guilt of having to do that, so he attempts to absolve himself of the guilt by lying and convincing himself that he did what was necessary. He does realize he's done wrong, but he just can't live with it, so instead, he tries to run away from it. As a result, it probably makes him seem like a cold, callous individual that doesn't really care about the pain he puts others through, when he's really just an insecure individual trying to outrun his own guilt. In a way, he's like a foil to Ben; instead of letting the guilt of his actions eat away at him like it does Ben, he just tries to dodge it instead.
To go along with all that, there's a line Lee can say to Kenny when you're trying to stop the train that kind of goes along with this
I helped kill Larry because I thought it was necessary. I didn't want to do it, but I agreed with Kenny and believed that there was no other choice. So really, I didn't have to forgive either. I would've forgiven him for killing Larry if I disagreed with him. As for leaving Lee, I would've forgiven him for the first one but held the second one against him. At the St. John's he looks absolutely terrified. He doesn't look spiteful, he just appears to be too afraid to help Lee. However, when he abandons you at the drug store, it looks like a revenge kind of thing. So overall, I wouldn't hate him but I don't think I would trust him.
Yes. In my game, she shot Carley. I felt, at least for me, there was no other option. I helped kill her father and felt responsible for her downwards spiral. She was under so much pressure and was so emotionally vulnerable. What she did was so wrong and unfair, but I understood why she did it. I didn't feel like she deserved to die for her actions. As for stealing the RV, I was very angered by that but once again, I get it. She was left in a group of people that mainly disliked and feared her. There was no way for her to stay with the group after what she did. It just wouldn't have worked, and she knew it.
Yep. While she may have been a little too harsh towards Clementine, it wasn't unreasonable for her to feel the way she did. Like pretty much everyone, she was under a lot of stress. She was pregnant, she didn't know who the father was, death is pretty much around every corner, Carver, and now you throw in this stranger who appears to be bit. I really do respect her for getting over her negative feelings. It probably wasn't easy for her to just take back her words and put trust into Clementine, but she did it nonetheless.
Yeah. It isn't right to kill someone on a hunch. (Although the situation is different, it's kind of like how I killed Larry based on a hunch) Still, he only did it because he thought that Matthew was going to harm Clementine or Luke. How he came to that conclusion, I'll never know. Nothing about that exchange screamed danger, but it's the apocalypse. Everything seems dangerous. But still, I believe he had good intentions for his action. I know that good intentions don't mean a lot or make a horrible action any better. Still, if someone seems to mean well, it makes it very hard for me to hold their hasty actions against them.
I originally forgave her for what she did at the ski lodge. I didn't think she wanted things to go as badly as they did. I really thought that she would get a redemption arc and that she would do something to make up for her past mistakes. But for deserting the group, I'm kind of half and half. If she would've just left with the car, I would've gotten over it. Yeah, the car would've been a great thing to have, but it wasn't something we absolutely couldn't have survived without. But because she took all of our supplies, I harbor a lot of negative feelings. She and Mike basically condemned an infant, a kid, and two adults to death. I don't think Bonnie is a horrible person and if given the chance, I would not exact revenge on her. She means well and wants to do the right thing, but her instincts get in the way of that. I guess you could say I partially forgive her.
Uh....I don't know. In my playthrough, I just couldn't bring myself to shoot Kenny. Yeah, Jane was in the wrong. But murdering someone out of rage is definitely more messed up. Kenny was my Season 1 bro and my Season 2 uncle. I don't think I could shoot my bro/uncle. Still, if I did, I don't know if I could forgive Jane. I've pretty much forgiven every single person in this game for every negative word and action. But basically forcing me to kill someone that I consider a friend? I don't know. I was seriously pissed off at Kenny after what he did to Jane, but I could forgive him. So why wouldn't I forgive Jane? Jane did manipulate Kenny, but I don't think her plan was to manipulate Clementine in any way. But still, if I would've pulled that trigger and discovered the truth, I would've felt manipulated.
I forgave everyone except Bonnie, Mike and Arvo.
Did you forgive Kenny for leaving Lee (determinant) and killing/putting down Larry?
Kenny didn't leave me, and I sort of helped smash Larry's head in...so, yeah.
Did you forgive Lilly for shooting Doug or Carley and stealing the RV?
I forgave her. Granted, I wouldn't like to see Lilly again because helping smashing her Dad's head in probably left her with a...not very nice view on Lee. The moment she starts smack talking Lee is the moment I decide not to save her when she becomes determinant.
Did you forgive Rebecca for being mean to Clementine?
Yes.
Did you forgive Nick for shooting Matthew?
I didn't give a shit about Matthew, so yeah.
Did you forgive Bonnie for lying at the ski lodge and later deserting the group?
I forgive her for lying at the lodge because that kickass jacket totally made up for it. On the other hand, If I ever see her again, I really hope Telltale gives me the option to kill her. Stealing the truck and getting Luke killed and then blaming that on Clementine made me absolutely hate her.
Did you forgive Jane for baiting Kenny and lying about AJ's fate/whereabouts?
No. She dared to try and make me caste down my God in favor of false idols. She sold her soul to Larry, and had to pay the price. Kenny need not even use the Holy Saltlick to smite that heretic.
Even back in 400 Days?
Well, I didn't really hate her in 400 days, but I certainty didn't like her all that much either. She was just a character I felt little to nothing for, whilst in S2, I found myself genuinely disliking her.
Forgave him for killing Larry, I understood why he did, what he did. But didn't forgive him for not putting the bullshit aside and helping Lee look for Clem. That, I did not understand.
No. An unforgivable act if you ask me. Purely because it was an impulsive act, based on emotion.
Yes. Knew it wasn't anything personal. Didn't let it bother me.
No. Stupid mistake. Should've listened to his uncle and kept his finger off the damn trigger.
Forgave her for the ski lodge. Didn't forgive her for blaming Clem for Luke, saying just leave her, after Clem got shot, and then leaving.
Forgave her for her poorly thought out ploy. But I'm keeping a close eye on her. I'm hoping Clem can help bring her back. But if she thinks she can bring Clem down(to her level) then she's got another thing comin'.
I am flattened!
@EpicMustacheGuy
Didn't happen in my first playthrough but did in my other playthrough. I don't hold grudges and i am normally very forgiving depending on the circumstances.
This is difficult. It's kind of a yes and no. It was innexusable what she did but if we saw her again and i'd hear what she'd have to say i possibly would forgive her but i truly loved Carley and was so upset at the time when she shot her.
Yes. She was horrible but she was looking out for her group which was perfectly understandable plus she apologised which is fine with me.
Yes. It was stupid of him but his intentions were meant to be good but sadly did something bad. He's not a bad guy. He didn't mean to do it. I forgave him.
I was always shifty of Bonnie. I didn't trust her when we first saw her at the lodge and how she said she had a family and a little girl Clem's age which as we know wasn't true thanks to the 400 days history. I forgave her betrayal at the lodge after she helped everyone escapee Howe's but after Clem gets shot she said in my playthrough "just leave her" which i just could not forgive. If she hadn't treated my Clem like that and was just leaving the group then i possibly would have forgiven her due to the reason she was leaving.
I feel very strongly on this topic and to prevent an argument i won't go into it but people here that know me know how i felt about what she did. Both were in the wrong at what happened but as this question is asking if i forgave Jane on what she did, deliberately messing with Kenny's emotions and making him think AJ was dead, so no I didn't forgive her. Even for me I couldn't forgive that.
I've tried but the more i go over it, the more i've made my mind up.
I can say that when I play TWD I don't actually forgive people, I simply put up with them in order to survive, some have to be put down for what they did, as for the minor "crimes", I simply take notes, we are usually so concerned that some characters won't forget something we did, or that they are going to be mad at us but hey, it's the bloody apocalypse and people have to stick together if they want to survive in a horrible world, it's the ultimate social experience. THEY should be concerned about the others instead of acting like children most of the time. It's incredible how Clem is way more reasonable than some of the group. I won't "forgive", I'll just analyse and see if the person whether can or not stay by my side.
Kenny didn't leave me. And I didnt like Larry so I didnt mind much.
No. She killed Carley in cold blood for nothing more than a suspicion.
Yeah. She was pregnant and that leads women to get angered some times. Its not a big deal.
Yeah, but i could not save him.
At the first time she did it because Carver made her. The second time she did it just because his crush died and i cant forgive thing like that. First time yes, second time no.
No. If something would have gone wrong and Kenny, Jane and Clem ended up dying, AJ would have starved to death.
(?) BetterToSleep is grateful for the fresh insight.
I did not make him out to be a cold, callous individual actually, but instead, an individual who refuses to accept that they are wrong. And that is indeed what it is and what you proposed. He is not stubborn because of pride—he is stubborn because of guilt.
This leads me to re-think virtually everything about him.
In-game, during my first playthrough (i let her die in the second), I forgave Jane. I didn't really feel like I had a choice. I mean, I did, but practically speaking it was not a choice for me to leave Clementine as an eleven year-old girl alone with a baby. I would rather forgive Jane than allow Clementine to be in that situation.
Outside of the game, I do not forgive her. I don't so much mind the intention she had with her plan, but the execution of it was a reckless endangerment of everyone's lives. She or Kenny can die from the confrontation, and she does nothing to stop it. She risks AJs life if she lets herself die because she was the only one who knew that he was alive in the blizzard. Clementine is also in danger because she can repeatedly put herself in harm's way, after just getting shot, to try to stop the fight.
For me the risk of four lives to prove one point was just too much for me to forgive.
I previously discussed the following topics in this comment.
Kenny on Larry's murder or reanimation prevention.
Kenny on leaving Lee to fend for himself.
Lilly on the Carley and Doug murder.
Lilly on the RV theft.
Rebecca on "being mean" to Clementine.
Nick on shooting Matthew.
I forgave Bonnie long ago. She explains in "In Harm's Way" that she thought she would be able to act like the peacekeeper between both groups if she was the one to establish contact. That obviously failed, but that does not mean that we should hold it against her. Carver was going to reach the cabin group either way, and she took the risk to be the one in between, when she could have played fool and let Carver do whatever the hell he wanted with Alvin and the others.
Besides, she is the only one who attempted to calm Carver when the latter was beating Kenny, along with Nick. By the way, we often overlook the fact that Nick was the only one in the cabin group pleading for Carver to stop, even though he and Kenny disliked each other.
Another side note—Kenny and Bonnie possibly would've gotten along better in "Amid The Ruins" and "No Going Back" if somebody had told the former that Bonnie prevented his death.
I do forgive Jane, completely.
The plan was good in theory. She wanted Clementine to witness how Kenny would react over this random baby's disappearance, so that the three could then discuss who Clementine and AJ would be best with. Jane underestimated Kenny's attachment to the newborn—he was basically Kenny's second chance of becoming a good father, and Jane did not know this. She did not expect him to become as enraged as he did, and she did not tell him that AJ was indeed alive. Humans are like that. We see it all the time. It is possible that she became more focused on defending herself than on revealing the truth.
I truly believe that she did not want a Clementine to be involved, as seen when she tells her to stay out of "it," or the argument that would emerge later.
Ok, I'd be glad to give my reasons.
That's a tough one for me. In all the times I've played the first season of the game, I respected Kenny as a survivor and a friend, but by the second episode, it began to spiral downhill in spite of trying to maintain order among the group. Whether or not Larry would turn is still ambiguous, but when Kenny dropped the salt lick on Larry's head as I was trying to save the man's life. BAM! Shock and regret for Lilly were all I could express.
After escaping the farm, when he said there was going to be fallout and wondered what I thought...I always chose silence. So do I forgive him, sadly no I do not for both leaving Lee and killing Larry.
I've always played on the side of caution ever since after episode two, Lilly losing her father was a big, big deal. She will forever have my sympathies. I revealed my past to her, and when she said "the last thing you need to do is apologize". Despite being paranoid, there were still some traces of humanity still in that hardened shell of a woman.
Then, the big shock moment of the death of Carley. Did NOT saw that coming, as did others. Was I angry for her killing Carley? Hell yeah. But thankfully, I retained my senses and continued traveling in the RV, with Lilly in restraints. What would become of her, I didn't know. I hoped for something merciful at least. Then, she said she was taking the RV, I tried to stop her but she apologizes and that's the last i saw of her.
Lilly becoming unstable after the death of her father is expected. People always ostracize her as a bitch, but in my opinion, quite the opposite. Lilly was a capable survivor and been dealt a hard blow, she was brash at times, but I still respect her. So, I forgive her for her actions. Her pros far outweigh her cons.
As I have mentioned, Lilly for Season 3.
I bore Rebecca no ill will. Plus, I'm sure part of her meanness was just mood swings from being pregnant and fearful of their captors. I forgive Rebecca. Simple as that.
What Nick did was brash and reckless. I sure there are moments in the comics, characters did half assed reckless actions. But ever since his apology at the dinner table in Episode 1, I gained respect for him. As the quote says "It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong". So yeah, it was a mistake, and we always learn from them.
I was unsure about Bonnie. When revealed to be part of Carver's group, I was upset. But when loading magazines in episode three, she revealed her thoughts and understood. I forgive her for that but deserting the group. Sorry, that's a decision I hope she regrets.
And now the big one...
Season 2 was dark and depressing, even for someone like me. The loss of every member of the Cabin group, surprised I'll have Clem develop survivor's guilt. Christa's fate was unknown, Mike and Bonnie were who knows where and Kenny was heading to the point of no return, I feared it was only a matter of time before he ceased listening to reason. Then, the atom bomb of a choice I made. I'm upset at what I did, BUT I will learn to live with it. One of the purposes of these games is to live with the choices we've made. Ever since her introduction, Jane became a character I felt I could understand. She was a survivor, knew the rules, lost just as much as anyone in the WD universe, and continued to walk through with her shields up.
Her decision of hiding AJ just to get Kenny riled up and for me to see him as a ticking time bomb, was a bad gambit on her part. But I made peace with it. Cause, after the loss of everyone of the characters I was proud to call friends, it was there; I just kept it in check.
Therefore, I NEVER wanted to be alone again. "NEVER ALONE, NEVER AGAIN"
So I made amends with her, not just to cast away the loneliness but I'm taking a chance with Jane, in hopes she will redeem herself and she's too good of a survivor to cast away. I hope when Season 3 comes around, whatever comes of this character, I pray I do not regret my decision, but I will live with it, for better or worst.
So with regards to forgiveness, it's half and half.
I just bared my soul with all you fellow viewers. Please honor and respect them. I may seem too forgiving in the WD world, but I will always cling to my humanity and my virtues tooth and nail. And accept the consequences for my own doing.
Doesn't Lilly also "leave Lee to die?" When Andy is pushing you towards the fence, she (determinantly) will just watch and not help you.
This. It seemed fairly obvious to me that deciding he had to do that to Larry not only horrified him(backing into a corner while repeating sorry, then turning his back and refusing to look at Lee for a bit), it clearly bothered him afterwards(getting puffy when Lee/Lily alluded to it in front of everyone).