Sarah's condition (in my mind at least) is not the effect of not being able to handle the ZA, it was only exasperated by it, Duck/Nick/Ben do not have that problem, they just couldn't cope.
I've seen some good breakdowns of Sarah's problems, can't remeber where it was 2 years ago.
Seriously, that would have been an amazing avenue to go down, does someone like Sarah who is a liabilty but not of her own fault like Ben/Nick deserve the treatment I give to characters like Ben/Nick
I don't think you understand me, my problems with Sarah do not stem from her not being smart like Clem, my problems with her stem from poor storytelling and characterization, that's on telltale, not me.
This was the only time a hint was given that Sarah's problems stemmed from something deeper than just being a character who will eventually … morehold the Idiot Stick like Ben/Nick.
You realise Nick almost certainly had depression right? Ben likely had severe anxiety as well. I mean usually there is a reason someone does something foolish
At some point they should have firmly established that Sarah was not operating at full mental capacity
Sarah had some form of anxiety it doesnt mean she is completely incapable just from the condition. I think its pretty bad to assume just because she has a disorder that she is just fully incapable otherwise
when in fact she could have allowed for season 2 to become a deeper and more thematically resonate game than it was.
Why does sarah having a condition suddenly make the game so much deeper or resonating? She still a really sad character even if you dont think she has an anxi… [view original content]
As somebody who suffers of anxiety, I do not feel insulted at all, as I feel like the struggle is being acknowledged to a degree.
I believe that those who are being demeaned are those with lower mental capacity, who, going along with what @Plan_R is saying, would deserve to be left to die.
This was the only time a hint was given that Sarah's problems stemmed from something deeper than just being a character who will eventually … morehold the Idiot Stick like Ben/Nick.
You realise Nick almost certainly had depression right? Ben likely had severe anxiety as well. I mean usually there is a reason someone does something foolish
At some point they should have firmly established that Sarah was not operating at full mental capacity
Sarah had some form of anxiety it doesnt mean she is completely incapable just from the condition. I think its pretty bad to assume just because she has a disorder that she is just fully incapable otherwise
when in fact she could have allowed for season 2 to become a deeper and more thematically resonate game than it was.
Why does sarah having a condition suddenly make the game so much deeper or resonating? She still a really sad character even if you dont think she has an anxi… [view original content]
As somebody who suffers of anxiety, I do not feel insulted at all, as I feel like the struggle is being acknowledged to a degree.
I belie… moreve that those who are being demeaned are those with lower mental capacity, who, going along with what @Plan_R is saying, would deserve to be left to die.
As a writer I thought Sarah was one of the strongest characters, and Duck's purpose in the story was also well-written. They provide depth and variability in the game, while having very justified reasons to exist in the universe (sheltering parents and group). Just because these characters are not hardened survivors like Clem does not mean their inclusion is bad writing.
Some of us—and I include myself—would attempt to craft their thoughts beforehand, start speaking, stutter, cough, blush, and sit back without actually getting any point across.
Comment if you can relate.
Wow. I was wrong about Jane in that scene, then.
I assumed she shot him to clean up some loose ends she didn't want the Howe's Ski Cabin group knowing about should he decide to change his ways and join them. I guess that qualifies as one.
Either way, it gave her a bit of an edge that "foreshadowed" that she isn't exactly trustworthy, so a small gain with a big loss.
Since Troy appears to be one of your favorites, I will bring you a fun fact—did you know that it was confirmed Troy was supposed to be shown… more sexually harassing Jane? The footage was scrapped, but it appears that it supposedly happened off-screen, given that Jane doesn't need much effort to talk him into going with her, and later shoots her in the crotch area.
Some of us—and I include myself—would attempt to craft their thoughts beforehand, start speaking, stutter, cough, blush, and sit back without actually getting any point across.
Comment if you can relate.
When I was talking about Sarah's lack of help, I was referring to the fact she never attempts to benefit the group in anyway.
she can notice walkers from distance if you save her.
What incident are you talking about? When they save her from the trailer, where walkers were covering the whole area and literally anyone who wasn't blind, would've seen them? If that's what you're talking about, I really wouldn't call that help from Sarah's point, considering she put them in that situation in the first place.
"She isnt like you, you might not realise it initally but with time you'll understand"....I mean how clear do you want them to make it? Also they never really confirmed in the game what her problems were, whether they were short or long term. Plus I dont know why that meant she should be treated any different
To be fair, there's a lot of conclusions you could draw from that. I personally thought she had been intentionally sheltered and babied for years because she was a closeted sociopath that was just subconsciously waiting for a chance to lash out. While I grew to find her a genuinely loyal and endearing character, I always played through the game knowing that was a possibility.
Not that I don't agree with you, but this is something that has bugged me for a while: Was it ever officially stated that Sarah had a handicapping disorder? I never really got the vibe that she had some medical condition, but I constantly see people say it like its common knowledge.
They never once made it clear that Sarah was mentally challenged, and was challenged long before the apocalypse began.
"She isnt lik… moree you, you might not realise it initally but with time you'll understand"
....I mean how clear do you want them to make it? Also they never really confirmed in the game what her problems were, whether they were short or long term. Plus I dont know why that meant she should be treated any different
So the decision to let Sarah die was not one I made knowing the full depth of her character, instead of agonizing over it, I jumped on the 'lets abandon this idiot' train long before Jane even did.
I dont get what your prolem with this is,So if sarah was stupid then you were fine letting her die but because she had a disability then you were not fine letting her die? I mean a lot of the stuff she did wasnt due to her condition (whatever it was)
When Luke is on the deck making out with Jane instead of keeping watch, Sarah (if you saved her back at the trailer park) will be the first to notice the walkers and calls out for Clementine, although she stutters a bit because she's starting to have another panic attack.
As for attempting to help the group, the only other incident I can think of (outside of trying to help Clementine or her dad) besides this is the fact that she tries to learn how to use a gun to protect herself, so she doesn't have to rely on the others for protection.
When I was talking about Sarah's lack of help, I was referring to the fact she never attempts to benefit the group in anyway.
she can … morenotice walkers from distance if you save her.
What incident are you talking about? When they save her from the trailer, where walkers were covering the whole area and literally anyone who wasn't blind, would've seen them? If that's what you're talking about, I really wouldn't call that help from Sarah's point, considering she put them in that situation in the first place.
@ Firewallcano
"She isnt like you, you might not realise it initally but with time you'll understand"....I mean how clear do you want … morethem to make it? Also they never really confirmed in the game what her problems were, whether they were short or long term. Plus I dont know why that meant she should be treated any different
To be fair, there's a lot of conclusions you could draw from that. I personally thought she had been intentionally sheltered and babied for years because she was a closeted sociopath that was just subconsciously waiting for a chance to lash out. While I grew to find her a genuinely loyal and endearing character, I always played through the game knowing that was a possibility.
@Plan_R
Not that I don't agree with you, but this is something that has bugged me for a while: Was it ever officially stated that Sarah had a handicapping disorder? I never really got the vibe that she had some medical condition, but I constantly see people say it like its common knowledge.
Sarah was such a cold sore of a character. I lost any and all interest when she was babbling in front of the ruthless tyrant who she had known, about of all things a fucking dream she had.
At that point, either the game was dropping not-so-subtle hints she was mentally ill OR she had a death wish.
And Duck... well, you couldn't convince me he isn't handicapped.
Telltale took a big risk making a character with mental problems. Specially a so old character. I'm sure that if Sarah was seven or something around that age, people wouldn't hate her so much. In my opinion, if they wanted a "libiality" in the group so much, they could make a seven years old Sarah with, idk, in a wellchair or with diabetes and dependence of insulina or some other medicine that would make the group members put their lives in risk to keep her alive. Of course, for this to work, she would need to be a more likeable character, because I have to admit she was a little annoyig sometimes. Less stupid coments, and more "I know I'm not strong, I know people die because of me, but I don't know what to do starts crying " Telltale made her seem like The New Ben, but I think it would be waaaaay better if they tried to turn her into The New Clementine. Also would make a better moral compass that Luke or AJ. And a better deuteraonist that Kenny (HOW DID TELLTALE THINK THAT INTRODUCING THE DEUTERAGONIST IN THE SECOND EPISODE WAS A GOOD IDEA). I don't even want her to become "badass", Clementine wasn't "badass" in S1, but everyone loved her, then and now. I just wanted some originality, some good character development! Is that too hard to do?
I think mental health worked better because it showed the worlds response to it, there isnt really any way to help and many people (including clementine) dont understand it.
"Dying like this, its stupid", Clementine thinks sarah in that scene is being stupid, she doesnt see why sarah is not moving.
That said again I feel people overestimate the effects of sarah's condition, It had an effect in some scenes but there were others factors at play, namely her dad sheltered her and she was also immature. A lot of the "dumb" parts of her character and decision making were not due to her condition at all. Understandable of a child but still annoying and stupid behavior. Also I feel they should have maybe given sarah SOME use to the group, because people may highlight very brief moments where the character possibly provided some help, but these are clearly outliers.
Telltale took a big risk making a character with mental problems. Specially a so old character. I'm sure that if Sarah was seven or somethin… moreg around that age, people wouldn't hate her so much. In my opinion, if they wanted a "libiality" in the group so much, they could make a seven years old Sarah with, idk, in a wellchair or with diabetes and dependence of insulina or some other medicine that would make the group members put their lives in risk to keep her alive. Of course, for this to work, she would need to be a more likeable character, because I have to admit she was a little annoyig sometimes. Less stupid coments, and more "I know I'm not strong, I know people die because of me, but I don't know what to do starts crying " Telltale made her seem like The New Ben, but I think it would be waaaaay better if they tried to turn her into The New Clementine. Also would make a better moral compass that Luke or AJ. And a better deuteraonist that K… [view original content]
i think most ppl make fun of me cuz of my spelling mistakes. well sorry but english is not my 1st language. its sometimes hard for me to exp… moreress what i rly mean. this was not meant to be hate thread for sarah. like some people say, i just meant it would not be realistic for character like sarah or duck to be alive 5 years into apocalypse. unless they had someone like superman to protect them.
Telltale made her seem like The New Ben, but I think it would be waaaaay better if they tried to turn her into The New Clementine.
I thought people considered Nick to be the new Ben? Also, the new Clementine seemed to be the basis for her character arc but obviously got skewed around the end of Episode 3.
I don't even want her to become "badass", Clementine wasn't "badass" in S1, but everyone loved her, then and now. I just wanted some originality, some good character development! Is that too hard to do?
This was the broad scope of my expectations for Sarah in general, with a certain degree of badass notwithstanding. Now, I didn't expect her to get quite the same resolution(or reception, for that matter) as Clementine did for obvious reason, but the point still stands.
That said again I feel people overestimate the effects of sarah's condition. A lot of the "dumb" parts of her character and decision making were not due to her condition at all.
Hence why I never saw Sarah as having a disorder. I just thought she was naturally lonely, submissive, and dopey because of her sheltered treatment by Carlos.
Also I feel they should have maybe given sarah SOME use to the group, because people may highlight very brief moments where the character possibly provided some help, but these are clearly outliers.
Thank you!
Though, there are a few moments of skill and not-so-harmlessness(couldn't think of a better way to say it) throughout the game but they are so scant and muted that I'm sure most didn't notice them. And through little fault of their own.
Telltale took a big risk making a character with mental problems. Specially a so old character. I'm sure that if Sarah was seven or somethin… moreg around that age, people wouldn't hate her so much. In my opinion, if they wanted a "libiality" in the group so much, they could make a seven years old Sarah with, idk, in a wellchair or with diabetes and dependence of insulina or some other medicine that would make the group members put their lives in risk to keep her alive. Of course, for this to work, she would need to be a more likeable character, because I have to admit she was a little annoyig sometimes. Less stupid coments, and more "I know I'm not strong, I know people die because of me, but I don't know what to do starts crying " Telltale made her seem like The New Ben, but I think it would be waaaaay better if they tried to turn her into The New Clementine. Also would make a better moral compass that Luke or AJ. And a better deuteraonist that K… [view original content]
First of all, yeah, it's against the rules. The world would be better without rules. The worts part of all is that they don't even explain us why! I refuse to do something without explanation, just because a autority figure tells me to.
Duck was a kid that survived only 3 months into the apocalypse. I don't think he was mentally ill, but like Kenny said, he was "as dumb as a bag of hammers." He wasn't observant or adaptive like Clem was, but he just wanted to stay the kid he was before zombies showed up. His parents did what they could for him, and his death was of no fault of theirs or his own.
Sarah was possibly mentally ill. Because of this, Carlos heavily sheltered her, and that did not do her any favors. She wanted to be independent but did not know how. Her violent reaction to Carlos' death was partially Carlos' fault because he kept her in a state that made her intensely dependent on him, regardless of her age. But it is understandable that she made it this long if she has been under constant care of a group or community. If she lived, I don't think she would ever evolve into the hardened survivors Clem is, but she would at least gain some independence and understanding of the world around her.
These characters, however, were not useless. Duck helped in Lee's investigation, Sarah gave Clem peroxide. Usefulness also shouldn't have to be the only justification for existence, especially children and disabled. That's Crawford's way of thinking. If there is a disabled or child character in a protective group or community 5 years into the apacolypse, I won't think it out of place. I'm actually really glad Telltale includes these characters. It gives added dimension depth to the cast and story, instead of a blanket "everyone is a fully capable badass survivor" narrative that can get boring.
Duck was a kid that survived only 3 months into the apocalypse. I don't think he was mentally ill, but like Kenny said, he was "as dumb as a… more bag of hammers." He wasn't observant or adaptive like Clem was, but he just wanted to stay the kid he was before zombies showed up. His parents did what they could for him, and his death was of no fault of theirs or his own.
Sarah was possibly mentally ill. Because of this, Carlos heavily sheltered her, and that did not do her any favors. She wanted to be independent but did not know how. Her violent reaction to Carlos' death was partially Carlos' fault because he kept her in a state that made her intensely dependent on him, regardless of her age. But it is understandable that she made it this long if she has been under constant care of a group or community. If she lived, I don't think she would ever evolve into the hardened survivors Clem is, but she would at least gain some independence and understa… [view original content]
First of all, yeah, it's against the rules. The world would be better without rules. The worts part of all is that they don't even explain u… mores why! I refuse to do something without explanation, just because a autority figure tells me to.
Second of all, CuteClem was banned, I think.
Duck was a kid that survived only 3 months into the apocalypse. I don't think he was mentally ill, but like Kenny said, he was "as dumb as a… more bag of hammers." He wasn't observant or adaptive like Clem was, but he just wanted to stay the kid he was before zombies showed up. His parents did what they could for him, and his death was of no fault of theirs or his own.
Sarah was possibly mentally ill. Because of this, Carlos heavily sheltered her, and that did not do her any favors. She wanted to be independent but did not know how. Her violent reaction to Carlos' death was partially Carlos' fault because he kept her in a state that made her intensely dependent on him, regardless of her age. But it is understandable that she made it this long if she has been under constant care of a group or community. If she lived, I don't think she would ever evolve into the hardened survivors Clem is, but she would at least gain some independence and understa… [view original content]
Duck was a kid that survived only 3 months into the apocalypse. I don't think he was mentally ill, but like Kenny said, he was "as dumb as a… more bag of hammers." He wasn't observant or adaptive like Clem was, but he just wanted to stay the kid he was before zombies showed up. His parents did what they could for him, and his death was of no fault of theirs or his own.
Sarah was possibly mentally ill. Because of this, Carlos heavily sheltered her, and that did not do her any favors. She wanted to be independent but did not know how. Her violent reaction to Carlos' death was partially Carlos' fault because he kept her in a state that made her intensely dependent on him, regardless of her age. But it is understandable that she made it this long if she has been under constant care of a group or community. If she lived, I don't think she would ever evolve into the hardened survivors Clem is, but she would at least gain some independence and understa… [view original content]
Duck did plenty for the plot, providing a contrast to Clementine, a source of worry for Kenny (for witnessing the cruelty of the world as a child, a theme that paralleled Lee's worry for Clem), and his death served as a catalyst for Kenny's character development in the second half as well as Chuck's suggestion to prepare Clem for survival.
Sarah had a lot of potential to be useful to the plot, and that was well touched on in episode 2 and 3. Unfortunately episode 4 did not follow through. That is of no fault of the character, just writing.
The worts part of all is that they don't even explain us why! I refuse to do something without explanation, just because a autority figure tells me to.
They wont tell you. I have been there done that so many times. Don't bother.
First of all, yeah, it's against the rules. The world would be better without rules. The worts part of all is that they don't even explain u… mores why! I refuse to do something without explanation, just because a autority figure tells me to.
Second of all, CuteClem was banned, I think.
Comments
I'm running out of time here, I'll be brief.
As somebody who suffers of anxiety, I do not feel insulted at all, as I feel like the struggle is being acknowledged to a degree.
I believe that those who are being demeaned are those with lower mental capacity, who, going along with what @Plan_R is saying, would deserve to be left to die.
Sorry but I have no idea what you are saying? Im not sure what your point is, in fact I cant even tell if your replying to me.
As a writer I thought Sarah was one of the strongest characters, and Duck's purpose in the story was also well-written. They provide depth and variability in the game, while having very justified reasons to exist in the universe (sheltering parents and group). Just because these characters are not hardened survivors like Clem does not mean their inclusion is bad writing.
Social misfits unite!
You said…
…with the condition being any form of anxiety.
Wow. I was wrong about Jane in that scene, then.
I assumed she shot him to clean up some loose ends she didn't want the Howe's Ski Cabin group knowing about should he decide to change his ways and join them. I guess that qualifies as one.
Either way, it gave her a bit of an edge that "foreshadowed" that she isn't exactly trustworthy, so a small gain with a big loss.
I would probably be too scared to even show up.
When I was talking about Sarah's lack of help, I was referring to the fact she never attempts to benefit the group in anyway.
What incident are you talking about? When they save her from the trailer, where walkers were covering the whole area and literally anyone who wasn't blind, would've seen them? If that's what you're talking about, I really wouldn't call that help from Sarah's point, considering she put them in that situation in the first place.
@ Firewallcano
To be fair, there's a lot of conclusions you could draw from that. I personally thought she had been intentionally sheltered and babied for years because she was a closeted sociopath that was just subconsciously waiting for a chance to lash out. While I grew to find her a genuinely loyal and endearing character, I always played through the game knowing that was a possibility.
@Plan_R
Not that I don't agree with you, but this is something that has bugged me for a while: Was it ever officially stated that Sarah had a handicapping disorder? I never really got the vibe that she had some medical condition, but I constantly see people say it like its common knowledge.
When Luke is on the deck making out with Jane instead of keeping watch, Sarah (if you saved her back at the trailer park) will be the first to notice the walkers and calls out for Clementine, although she stutters a bit because she's starting to have another panic attack.
As for attempting to help the group, the only other incident I can think of (outside of trying to help Clementine or her dad) besides this is the fact that she tries to learn how to use a gun to protect herself, so she doesn't have to rely on the others for protection.
I don't remember where, but a Telltale staff member confirmed that she has PTSD, something I didn't even consider her having.
Sarah was such a cold sore of a character. I lost any and all interest when she was babbling in front of the ruthless tyrant who she had known, about of all things a fucking dream she had.
At that point, either the game was dropping not-so-subtle hints she was mentally ill OR she had a death wish.
And Duck... well, you couldn't convince me he isn't handicapped.
Telltale took a big risk making a character with mental problems. Specially a so old character. I'm sure that if Sarah was seven or something around that age, people wouldn't hate her so much. In my opinion, if they wanted a "libiality" in the group so much, they could make a seven years old Sarah with, idk, in a wellchair or with diabetes and dependence of insulina or some other medicine that would make the group members put their lives in risk to keep her alive. Of course, for this to work, she would need to be a more likeable character, because I have to admit she was a little annoyig sometimes. Less stupid coments, and more "I know I'm not strong, I know people die because of me, but I don't know what to do starts crying " Telltale made her seem like The New Ben, but I think it would be waaaaay better if they tried to turn her into The New Clementine. Also would make a better moral compass that Luke or AJ. And a better deuteraonist that Kenny (HOW DID TELLTALE THINK THAT INTRODUCING THE DEUTERAGONIST IN THE SECOND EPISODE WAS A GOOD IDEA). I don't even want her to become "badass", Clementine wasn't "badass" in S1, but everyone loved her, then and now. I just wanted some originality, some good character development! Is that too hard to do?
I think mental health worked better because it showed the worlds response to it, there isnt really any way to help and many people (including clementine) dont understand it.
"Dying like this, its stupid", Clementine thinks sarah in that scene is being stupid, she doesnt see why sarah is not moving.
That said again I feel people overestimate the effects of sarah's condition, It had an effect in some scenes but there were others factors at play, namely her dad sheltered her and she was also immature. A lot of the "dumb" parts of her character and decision making were not due to her condition at all. Understandable of a child but still annoying and stupid behavior. Also I feel they should have maybe given sarah SOME use to the group, because people may highlight very brief moments where the character possibly provided some help, but these are clearly outliers.
Mind pointing me to a comment that shamed you for your grammar? Or are you bluffing?
I know I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure people meant something esle.
The PTSD was pretty obvious and it didn't really apply until Amid the Ruins, which dealt with the aftermath of escaping from Howe's.
@RavenSnowstorm
I thought people considered Nick to be the new Ben? Also, the new Clementine seemed to be the basis for her character arc but obviously got skewed around the end of Episode 3.
This was the broad scope of my expectations for Sarah in general, with a certain degree of badass notwithstanding. Now, I didn't expect her to get quite the same resolution(or reception, for that matter) as Clementine did for obvious reason, but the point still stands.
@Firewallcano
Hence why I never saw Sarah as having a disorder. I just thought she was naturally lonely, submissive, and dopey because of her sheltered treatment by Carlos.
Thank you!
Though, there are a few moments of skill and not-so-harmlessness(couldn't think of a better way to say it) throughout the game but they are so scant and muted that I'm sure most didn't notice them. And through little fault of their own.
has anyone noticed cuteclem vanished after the new season 3 trailer with clem being a teenager now
Um please, talking about banned users is against the rules.
it is? I didnt know he was banned.
Yes he is. Wait, is CuteClem a boy?
you spoke of him.
and I am guessing he is, Ive heard others say he
First of all, yeah, it's against the rules. The world would be better without rules. The worts part of all is that they don't even explain us why! I refuse to do something without explanation, just because a autority figure tells me to.
Second of all, CuteClem was banned, I think.
Duck was a kid that survived only 3 months into the apocalypse. I don't think he was mentally ill, but like Kenny said, he was "as dumb as a bag of hammers." He wasn't observant or adaptive like Clem was, but he just wanted to stay the kid he was before zombies showed up. His parents did what they could for him, and his death was of no fault of theirs or his own.
Sarah was possibly mentally ill. Because of this, Carlos heavily sheltered her, and that did not do her any favors. She wanted to be independent but did not know how. Her violent reaction to Carlos' death was partially Carlos' fault because he kept her in a state that made her intensely dependent on him, regardless of her age. But it is understandable that she made it this long if she has been under constant care of a group or community. If she lived, I don't think she would ever evolve into the hardened survivors Clem is, but she would at least gain some independence and understanding of the world around her.
These characters, however, were not useless. Duck helped in Lee's investigation, Sarah gave Clem peroxide. Usefulness also shouldn't have to be the only justification for existence, especially children and disabled. That's Crawford's way of thinking. If there is a disabled or child character in a protective group or community 5 years into the apacolypse, I won't think it out of place. I'm actually really glad Telltale includes these characters. It gives added dimension depth to the cast and story, instead of a blanket "everyone is a fully capable badass survivor" narrative that can get boring.
here we go again with peroxide.
#peroxideforthewin
Talking about banned users in and of itself is not against the rules, it's against the rules when it derails discussion, like in this situation.
It's not usefulness to the characters. It's usefulness to the plot what they lacked of.
I'm not claiming it made a dramatic difference, I'm just saying that's just an example that Sarah could do some good for others.
Thank god I find someone else who makes sense
ok
but thats literally the only good thing she did lol. and it was still pretty useless.
Duck did plenty for the plot, providing a contrast to Clementine, a source of worry for Kenny (for witnessing the cruelty of the world as a child, a theme that paralleled Lee's worry for Clem), and his death served as a catalyst for Kenny's character development in the second half as well as Chuck's suggestion to prepare Clem for survival.
Sarah had a lot of potential to be useful to the plot, and that was well touched on in episode 2 and 3. Unfortunately episode 4 did not follow through. That is of no fault of the character, just writing.
Same.
@LoseMyHome always know what he/she's talking about
They wont tell you. I have been there done that so many times. Don't bother.
Also: successfully hiding from Carver in episode 2 and taking the initiative to learn how to shoot (though that never came to fruition).
Still not the point of my comment, that her usefulness is not the justification of her existence.
There are other good things she's done, too:
She, and thank you!
Good to know!
You're welcome