My guess is they didn't trust Jane not to split and leave (like when Bonnie requests you go with Jane to the observation deck to make sure she doesn't run off).
They didn't want Kenny because... duh.
Clem because she was too close to Kenny and would tell him given their history back with the pharmacy group.
And A.J. because like Jane later said Kenny'd never let him go.
Good post. Thought provoking. I think these correlations do go over most players' heads. The only thing not explained is why she didn't ask … moreClementine and Jane if they wished to part ways with Kenny. After all, Jane and (determinantly) Clementine argue against going to Wellington in the group's final conversation/argument, prior to the theft.
I'm still not fully convinced the choice ever recognized that AJ was a factor. I honestly feel as though either A.) Telltale wrote the scene and set it up before they decided to greenlight AJ's inclusion into the episode, or B.) Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo are fucking asshole's that Telltale made take a sudden left turn for the player to feel more sympathy for Kenneth.
Either way, fuck the three of them for their actions.
All I can say is that if I was in Bonnie's situation, I would have tried to leave with Mike as well.
And does that mean you'd also take all the supplies and leave a baby, a little girl and 2 other adults to die?
Just thought i'd ask.
I'm still not fully convinced the choice ever recognized that AJ was a factor. I honestly feel as though either A.) Telltale wrote the scene… more and set it up before they decided to greenlight AJ's inclusion into the episode, or B.) Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo are fucking asshole's that Telltale made take a sudden left turn for the player to feel more sympathy for Kenneth.
Either way, fuck the three of them for their actions.
As in, he might've had a different fate met in the episode before the betrayal.
The fact they, especially Mike supposedly being a tender compassionate person, wanted to abandon an infant without any visible signs of guilt before their fleeing lends way to me theorizing the whole scene was coaxed up last minute in order to get rid of more characters before the inevitable fight.
No, I'm pretty sure Mike and Bonnie(and, to a lesser degree, Arvo) were meant to have genuinely turned over a new leaf or at most given in to their true friendly natures and the betrayal, while leaving a bit to be desired in terms of execution, was (hopefully) really banking on "OOC is Serious Business".
Not to give anything away(which means I'm probably giving something away), but I've actually been rewatching cutscenes throughout the episodes taking notes on characters I didn't have a solid grasp on for my next couple of "What would you have done differently?" contributions and I might just have one about one of them in the near future....
As in, he might've had a different fate met in the episode before the betrayal.
The fact they, especially Mike supposedly being a tender … morecompassionate person, wanted to abandon an infant without any visible signs of guilt before their fleeing lends way to me theorizing the whole scene was coaxed up last minute in order to get rid of more characters before the inevitable fight.
That, or they were wolves in sheep's clothing.
Great post as always. Well, I agree with pretty much everything you stated. About the Bonnie character in general, I must say that when I first played through 400 Days I was eager about something fresh on the franchise, which was about having five characters (at the time I did not know about Tavia just yet) whose goals were up for us to decide, that because anyone could tell that Lee's main goal was to protect Clementine, thus finding redemption in a doomed world. So I was eager to completely build these five characters in my own way and knowing that that would have a further effect on Clementine's story. Beyond survival, I wanted to characterize my Bonnie in a way where she would be that kind of person who does anything in order to have the "good life", I made her a liar, someone really scared and vulnerable but with perception, someone who is sneaky, who has no real alliance with anyone else but herself, who is free to change sides whenever she judges it as the smartest thing to do, a coward mostly but someone who is getting as far as she can. So you can imagine my reaction when I saw her story in Season Two, it connected so well with what I have made of her and imagined of her and it really pleased me, I felt betrayed by Bonnie, and that is what my Bonnie would actually do, so it felt amazing.
Wow, that's...intruiging. I didn't put much thought into any of the games binge about deciding who the characters were exactly. I always took it as here is this character, this is their backstory, here is their situation: Now, be them.
Maybe that's why some people were so hung up on the 400 Days characters.
Great post as always. Well, I agree with pretty much everything you stated. About the Bonnie character in general, I must say that when I fi… morerst played through 400 Days I was eager about something fresh on the franchise, which was about having five characters (at the time I did not know about Tavia just yet) whose goals were up for us to decide, that because anyone could tell that Lee's main goal was to protect Clementine, thus finding redemption in a doomed world. So I was eager to completely build these five characters in my own way and knowing that that would have a further effect on Clementine's story. Beyond survival, I wanted to characterize my Bonnie in a way where she would be that kind of person who does anything in order to have the "good life", I made her a liar, someone really scared and vulnerable but with perception, someone who is sneaky, who has no real alliance with anyone else but herself, who is free to change sides whenever… [view original content]
I'm not really mad at anyone in the Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo fleeing situation except for Arvo.
If by some strange occurrence I run into him in Season 3 and if I can help it...
He WILL NOT SURVIVE that encounter.
I'm sorry... I'm just not neurologically wired to think that its okay to shoot Clementine.
I'm still not fully convinced the choice ever recognized that AJ was a factor. I honestly feel as though either A.) Telltale wrote the scene and set it up before they decided to greenlight AJ's inclusion into the episode, or B.) Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo are fucking asshole's that Telltale made take a sudden left turn for the player to feel more sympathy for Kenneth.
I see this as an option and while it was rushed I still prefer this to all of them drowning in the lake or something like that. However I see some logic in what they do
Bonnie and Mike both dont want another Carver and this means they dont want Kenny to come after them, they just want to get away. Clementine regardless of how they player plays her is kenny's lap dog defending kenny. Jane is not trusted by Bonnie or mike and AJ would result in Kenny coming after them, the main reason Carver never let the cabin group go was becausehe wanted rebecca and the baby back. Jane says this herself later when trying to convince clementine to leave in the car
"So we just leave?! What about AJ?"
"I know, Look I know your close to him but Kenny would never let him go"
In all honesty there logic works, they seem to get away and Kenny isnt interested in following them, if they took AJ, this would change. In addition to this, them not really thinking about it seems about right to, they just want to get away they are not thinking logically about consequences to others, its juts like what the group did when escaping howes. Lastly Bonnie screwing everything up and being dumb is engraved in her character, and Mike just isnt enough of a character to comment on, he wants to help arvo and has never really gotten on with Kenny.
As in, he might've had a different fate met in the episode before the betrayal.
The fact they, especially Mike supposedly being a tender … morecompassionate person, wanted to abandon an infant without any visible signs of guilt before their fleeing lends way to me theorizing the whole scene was coaxed up last minute in order to get rid of more characters before the inevitable fight.
That, or they were wolves in sheep's clothing.
It is a way to go I suppose, it might as well even be what most people do. I simply love to know or to determine what drives the characters, their main goals in life will determine their whole story, from where I see it.
Wow, that's...intruiging. I didn't put much thought into any of the games binge about deciding who the characters were exactly. I always too… morek it as here is this character, this is their backstory, here is their situation: Now, be them.
Maybe that's why some people were so hung up on the 400 Days characters.
Bonnie and Mike both dont want another Carver and this means they dont want Kenny to come after them, they just want to get away.
And this right here makes their decision that much more understandable and a little more sympathetic. You would think that would be obvious....
In all honesty there logic works, they seem to get away and Kenny isnt interested in following them, if they took AJ, this would change.
Not really a reply, but it just occurred to me that while Mike and Bonnie endangering the baby along with the others was certainly dickish, Clementine doesn't bring him up when she confronts them. it might just be fanon on my part, but I would think Mike would be conflicted if she did.
Mike just isnt enough of a character to comment on, he wants to help arvo and has never really gotten on with Kenny.
I disagree with this statement. I always got the vibe that while Mike would definitely call Kenny out on his rashness and disagree with his plans, the two seemed to respect each other enough for Mike to try and give Kenny advice on doing Carver's work, help Kenny get moving when Sarita gets bitten, and Kenny to outright state that he never expected Mike to disagree with the Wellington plan or betray them, unlike Jane or Arvo.
I'm still not fully convinced the choice ever recognized that AJ was a factor. I honestly feel as though either A.) Telltale wrote the scene… more and set it up before they decided to greenlight AJ's inclusion into the episode, or B.) Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo are fucking asshole's that Telltale made take a sudden left turn for the player to feel more sympathy for Kenneth.
I see this as an option and while it was rushed I still prefer this to all of them drowning in the lake or something like that. However I see some logic in what they do
Bonnie and Mike both dont want another Carver and this means they dont want Kenny to come after them, they just want to get away. Clementine regardless of how they player plays her is kenny's lap dog defending kenny. Jane is not trusted by Bonnie or mike and AJ would result in Kenny coming after them, the main reason Carver never let the cabin group go was becausehe wanted rebecca and the baby back. Jane s… [view original content]
To be fair, she definitely seemed to have been sincere when she said that and it is proven should she be on good terms when Arvo shoot Clementine, as she gets upset with Mike and states that she never wanted any of that to happen.
Also, and I know I brought this up already, but they seemed to be in a huge hurry at the time so who knows if she was under the impression that they were intending to leave Clementine when they got caught. So, for all we know, any betrayal of Clementine was never on the table as far as she knew.
Mike is what the writers need him to be, he has no development and we know nothing about him. Literally any other adult character could have been in his place, I wish they had kept nick around instead if he had survived and used Mike as a replacement if nick was dead.
Bonnie and Mike both dont want another Carver and this means they dont want Kenny to come after them, they just want to get away.
An… mored this right here makes their decision that much more understandable and a little more sympathetic. You would think that would be obvious....
In all honesty there logic works, they seem to get away and Kenny isnt interested in following them, if they took AJ, this would change.
Not really a reply, but it just occurred to me that while Mike and Bonnie endangering the baby along with the others was certainly dickish, Clementine doesn't bring him up when she confronts them. it might just be fanon on my part, but I would think Mike would be conflicted if she did.
Mike just isnt enough of a character to comment on, he wants to help arvo and has never really gotten on with Kenny.
I disagree with this statement. I always got the vibe that while Mike would definitely call Kenny out o… [view original content]
Don't care. She meant to leave a child and an infant without food or wheels just because she herself was scared. Kenny never said a crooked word towards her. Nor Mike for that matter. If they just let Kenny kill the shitbird, Luke would be alive and Clementine wouldn't get shot. She's a junkie backstabbing whore that can fucking rot for all I care.
To be fair, she definitely seemed to have been sincere when she said that and it is proven should she be on good terms when Arvo shoot Cleme… morentine, as she gets upset with Mike and states that she never wanted any of that to happen.
Also, and I know I brought this up already, but they seemed to be in a huge hurry at the time so who knows if she was under the impression that they were intending to leave Clementine when they got caught. So, for all we know, any betrayal of Clementine was never on the table as far as she knew.
Holy shit! You make an excellent point because I could totally see Nick doing that. Feeling guilty about Arvo losing his sister and group, losing all hope for cooperation once Luke died, blaming himself for everything that went wrong, and trying to get Arvo away from Kenny.
I can even see Bonnie hopping onto that train of thought as well. And it might have even been preferable to some of their fans/shippers, seeing how Nick's dad left him and then he had conflicted feelings about Pete raising him and having to put down his mom.
One would hope the circumstances regarding AJ and the supplies would be changed up considering both have issues with betrayal. But still, it kinda makes you wonder...
Mike is what the writers need him to be, he has no development and we know nothing about him. Literally any other adult character could have… more been in his place, I wish they had kept nick around instead if he had survived and used Mike as a replacement if nick was dead.
I was getting at it woulda made more sense...still would have had Clementine catch them...this way their actions would have been aimed at Kenny who they viewed as dangerous and not at the whole group including a newborn and Clementine. Yes it would be a despicable act...but an understandable one. And again Clementine would have stopped it.
I would have had Mike and her smother him in his sleep
How hypo-fucking-critical is that from you! You go on about Kenny being evil … moreand shit in many posts about all the bad things he's done and yet smothering him in his sleep is ok by you is it? Wow just wow.
Okay, I guess now would be a good time to question some of this.
1.Letting Kenny kill Arvo wasn't really gonna solve any problems and in fact, keeping him around technically benefited them since they had little food, supplies, or transport at the time. Plus, there's the fact that they and Jane were afraid that Kenny was losing it and on his way to becoming another Carver, so letting him kill Arvo, who, while definitely an enemy, wasn't an active threat and in fact tried to stop the blast out when he realized it could happen, would only make that possibility more likely. Its the same reason people euthanize dogs who have bitten people unprovoked or why Batman holds a strict no-kill policy: once it happens once, it becomes that much easier to do it again.
2.How exactly did Arvo himself cause Luke to die? If anything, I've seen more people claim that Luke's death was either Bonnie, Clementine, or [unjustly] his own fault, when really it was more of an environmental hazard that happened too fast for everyone to react properly. Now, if you mean that Arvo's group coming to get payback against Jane and Clementine, then I'd agree but only in the sense that the blastout eventually happened and Luke (and Mike)got hit during it. And even then, that had more to do with Buricko refusing to back down, Vitali being a pyscho, and Clementine/Kenny not only firing the first shot but also causing Luke to be caught out in the open.
3.Bonnie had little to do with Mike, Luke, (and Ogg--no I'm kidding),and arguably Jane and Clementine, telling him not to kill Arvo. I'm fine with cause and effect blaming if it makes sequential sense, but you seem to be blaming her for doing a kind/heroic/pragmatic thing that she didn't do.
4.As Clementine and Kenny points out in the truck, people do crazy things when their scared: Jane, Bonnie, and Mike feeling nervous around him after spending so much time around Carver is understandable. Also, did you not understand my comment? I was merely suggesting that leaving Clementine, AJ, and Jane to die may not have been their intention, but they can't really say that since they got caught in a compromising position with Clementine pointing a gun at them. Her not even bringing AJ up (if I remember my "Unintentionally Sympathic" research correctly) doesn't really give her much leeway to convince them that their wrong for wanting to leave. Though the fact that we're meant to assume they were taking all of Arvo's supplies that they could grab was admittedly a serious dick move.
Don't care. She meant to leave a child and an infant without food or wheels just because she herself was scared. Kenny never said a crooked … moreword towards her. Nor Mike for that matter. If they just let Kenny kill the shitbird, Luke would be alive and Clementine wouldn't get shot. She's a junkie backstabbing whore that can fucking rot for all I care.
Okay, I guess now would be a good time to question some of this.
1.Letting Kenny kill Arvo wasn't really gonna solve any problems and in … morefact, keeping him around technically benefited them since they had little food, supplies, or transport at the time. Plus, there's the fact that they and Jane were afraid that Kenny was losing it and on his way to becoming another Carver, so letting him kill Arvo, who, while definitely an enemy, wasn't an active threat and in fact tried to stop the blast out when he realized it could happen, would only make that possibility more likely. Its the same reason people euthanize dogs who have bitten people unprovoked or why Batman holds a strict no-kill policy: once it happens once, it becomes that much easier to do it again.
2.How exactly did Arvo himself cause Luke to die? If anything, I've seen more people claim that Luke's death was either Bonnie, Clementine, or [unjustly] his own fault, when really it wa… [view original content]
There's a huge difference between murdering someone because of baseless accusations (something Kenny has done many times), and murdering someone who produces those baseless accusations and is a danger to the group (whether advertently or inadvertently).
Although I find much pleasure as a player killing Kenny cause he's a cuckboi, my distain stems from him being a direct threat to Clementine. I could give a fuck about AJ at this point, but I wouldn't argue the point that he also risks AJ's life.
And please if we were in a zombie apocalypse, I would have shot Kenny a long time ago, probably after the Larry murder.
I am a practica… morel person....I would help people, but if they go off the reservation like that... Well hell how can you ever turn your back on them?
It is a way to go I suppose, it might as well even be what most people do. I simply love to know or to determine what drives the characters, their main goals in life will determine their whole story, from where I see it.
With Love, Lady Chusets.
Honestly, I don't think there was any kind of deep thought process apart from "we need to get away from Kenny, we've got a working car and supplies so now is our best bet". Since neither were close to Clementine or Jane it also makes sense that they wouldn't try and bring them along. Especially if Clementine made it clear that she was cool with Kenny. It felt like a pretty lazy move just to write them out of the show.
The out-of-universe answer is kind of obvious, they need everyone gone for the last choice between 2 characters.
In-universe, they definitively wanted to get away from Kenny or more specifically Keep him from hurting Arvo again (Mike), Bonnie probably didn't want another Carver situation plus he pretty much admitted to them he absolutely doesn't care what they thought. Personally, I wanted to go with them and get the hell out of here, I didn't care if everybody in the game thought I was best friend with Kenny and I try to remind them that no I don't know him that well.
They were both okay with me coming with them if it wasn't for Arvo suddenly shooting her which kind of reminded me of Lilly who left no matter what you say to her in the RV, at least this time Arvo had a grudge against Clementine so it was understandable.
Define "close". Bonnie seems to genuinely care about Clementine's welfare up until the theft scene. I could understand her anger at Clem over Luke's death, given it was in the heat of the moment. Her actions afterward seemed out of character though. You don't leave two kids to starve with a nutbag and someone who may leave also, just because you are pissy that your old flame died. She also promised Rebecca's corpse that "we" (the group) would look after AJ. While I think the original post has merit and truth to it, I think the theft scene was lazy writing, period.
Honestly, I don't think there was any kind of deep thought process apart from "we need to get away from Kenny, we've got a working car and s… moreupplies so now is our best bet". Since neither were close to Clementine or Jane it also makes sense that they wouldn't try and bring them along. Especially if Clementine made it clear that she was cool with Kenny. It felt like a pretty lazy move just to write them out of the show.
Nope, I would have told people that I was leaving and offered Clem and Jane (and AJ though he can';t make decisions) the chocie to come with us, since in my game all of them disagreed with Kenny's plan.
All I can say is that if I was in Bonnie's situation, I would have tried to leave with Mike as well.
And does that mean you'd also take all the supplies and leave a baby, a little girl and 2 other adults to die?
Just thought i'd ask.
Nope, I would have told people that I was leaving and offered Clem and Jane (and AJ though he can';t make decisions) the chocie to come with us, since in my game all of them disagreed with Kenny's plan.
Beyond survival, I wanted to characterize my Bonnie in a way where she would be that kind of person who does anything in order to have the "good life", I made her a liar, someone really scared and vulnerable but with perception, someone who is sneaky, who has no real alliance with anyone else but herself, who is free to change sides whenever she judges it as the smartest thing to do, a coward mostly but someone who is getting as far as she can.
I suppose you characterized Mira similarly, then? Because this description can fit her to a tee depending on our choices!
Great post as always. Well, I agree with pretty much everything you stated. About the Bonnie character in general, I must say that when I fi… morerst played through 400 Days I was eager about something fresh on the franchise, which was about having five characters (at the time I did not know about Tavia just yet) whose goals were up for us to decide, that because anyone could tell that Lee's main goal was to protect Clementine, thus finding redemption in a doomed world. So I was eager to completely build these five characters in my own way and knowing that that would have a further effect on Clementine's story. Beyond survival, I wanted to characterize my Bonnie in a way where she would be that kind of person who does anything in order to have the "good life", I made her a liar, someone really scared and vulnerable but with perception, someone who is sneaky, who has no real alliance with anyone else but herself, who is free to change sides whenever… [view original content]
Yes, similarly but still too different at the same time. Understand, I see my Mira as a smarter character than Bonnie. Also, whereas my Bonnie is just a coward in some matters, I would say that my Mira is a realist. My Mira knows what is her role in Westeros, she has strong ideals, she can also adapt better than Bonnie, who is willing to make any changes in order to survive a bit more. In other words, Bonnie's decisions are driven by fear, she is scared. Mira in the other hand, is well aware of every step she takes, she is playing the big game after all. I think that the greatest difference between the two of them besides the intellectual level and all that is Mira's self control.
I do see the difference. Whereas your Mira strategizes her every move, planning for the long run, your version of Bonnie was that she would do whatever is necessary to obtain immediate benefits.
And this makes sense, since that's what mainly differentiates Game Of Thrones and The Walking Dead—one is about long-term strategies to gain power and the other one is all about short-term survival; up to "400 Days," at least.
Yes, similarly but still too different at the same time. Understand, I see my Mira as a smarter character than Bonnie. Also, whereas my Bonn… moreie is just a coward in some matters, I would say that my Mira is a realist. My Mira knows what is her role in Westeros, she has strong ideals, she can also adapt better than Bonnie, who is willing to make any changes in order to survive a bit more. In other words, Bonnie's decisions are driven by fear, she is scared. Mira in the other hand, is well aware of every step she takes, she is playing the big game after all. I think that the greatest difference between the two of them besides the intellectual level and all that is Mira's self control.
With Love, Lady Chusets.
I really hate invoking the whole lazy plot point trope, but it occurs to me that the implication that Mike, Arvo, and Bonnie were apparently taking all of the supplies was just a surefire way of keeping people from sympathizing with them and making their decision wrong.
I really hate invoking the whole lazy plot point trope, but it occurs to me that the implication that Mike, Arvo, and Bonnie were apparently… more taking all of the supplies was just a surefire way of keeping people from sympathizing with them and making their decision wrong.
Comments
Exactly! Hypocritical post from him/her
And does that mean you'd also take all the supplies and leave a baby, a little girl and 2 other adults to die?
Just thought i'd ask.
My guess is they didn't trust Jane not to split and leave (like when Bonnie requests you go with Jane to the observation deck to make sure she doesn't run off).
They didn't want Kenny because... duh.
Clem because she was too close to Kenny and would tell him given their history back with the pharmacy group.
And A.J. because like Jane later said Kenny'd never let him go.
I'm still not fully convinced the choice ever recognized that AJ was a factor. I honestly feel as though either A.) Telltale wrote the scene and set it up before they decided to greenlight AJ's inclusion into the episode, or B.) Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo are fucking asshole's that Telltale made take a sudden left turn for the player to feel more sympathy for Kenneth.
Either way, fuck the three of them for their actions.
But AJ was born in episode 4, so he was already included in the episode? Sorry im confused as to what you mean about them not including AJ?
As in, he might've had a different fate met in the episode before the betrayal.
The fact they, especially Mike supposedly being a tender compassionate person, wanted to abandon an infant without any visible signs of guilt before their fleeing lends way to me theorizing the whole scene was coaxed up last minute in order to get rid of more characters before the inevitable fight.
That, or they were wolves in sheep's clothing.
No, I'm pretty sure Mike and Bonnie(and, to a lesser degree, Arvo) were meant to have genuinely turned over a new leaf or at most given in to their true friendly natures and the betrayal, while leaving a bit to be desired in terms of execution, was (hopefully) really banking on "OOC is Serious Business".
Not to give anything away(which means I'm probably giving something away), but I've actually been rewatching cutscenes throughout the episodes taking notes on characters I didn't have a solid grasp on for my next couple of "What would you have done differently?" contributions and I might just have one about one of them in the near future....
Great post as always. Well, I agree with pretty much everything you stated. About the Bonnie character in general, I must say that when I first played through 400 Days I was eager about something fresh on the franchise, which was about having five characters (at the time I did not know about Tavia just yet) whose goals were up for us to decide, that because anyone could tell that Lee's main goal was to protect Clementine, thus finding redemption in a doomed world. So I was eager to completely build these five characters in my own way and knowing that that would have a further effect on Clementine's story. Beyond survival, I wanted to characterize my Bonnie in a way where she would be that kind of person who does anything in order to have the "good life", I made her a liar, someone really scared and vulnerable but with perception, someone who is sneaky, who has no real alliance with anyone else but herself, who is free to change sides whenever she judges it as the smartest thing to do, a coward mostly but someone who is getting as far as she can. So you can imagine my reaction when I saw her story in Season Two, it connected so well with what I have made of her and imagined of her and it really pleased me, I felt betrayed by Bonnie, and that is what my Bonnie would actually do, so it felt amazing.
With Love, Lady Chusets.
Wow, that's...intruiging. I didn't put much thought into any of the games binge about deciding who the characters were exactly. I always took it as here is this character, this is their backstory, here is their situation: Now, be them.
Maybe that's why some people were so hung up on the 400 Days characters.
I'm not really mad at anyone in the Bonnie, Mike, and Arvo fleeing situation except for Arvo.
If by some strange occurrence I run into him in Season 3 and if I can help it...
He WILL NOT SURVIVE that encounter.
I'm sorry... I'm just not neurologically wired to think that its okay to shoot Clementine.
I see this as an option and while it was rushed I still prefer this to all of them drowning in the lake or something like that. However I see some logic in what they do
Bonnie and Mike both dont want another Carver and this means they dont want Kenny to come after them, they just want to get away. Clementine regardless of how they player plays her is kenny's lap dog defending kenny. Jane is not trusted by Bonnie or mike and AJ would result in Kenny coming after them, the main reason Carver never let the cabin group go was becausehe wanted rebecca and the baby back. Jane says this herself later when trying to convince clementine to leave in the car
"So we just leave?! What about AJ?"
"I know, Look I know your close to him but Kenny would never let him go"
In all honesty there logic works, they seem to get away and Kenny isnt interested in following them, if they took AJ, this would change. In addition to this, them not really thinking about it seems about right to, they just want to get away they are not thinking logically about consequences to others, its juts like what the group did when escaping howes. Lastly Bonnie screwing everything up and being dumb is engraved in her character, and Mike just isnt enough of a character to comment on, he wants to help arvo and has never really gotten on with Kenny.
It is a way to go I suppose, it might as well even be what most people do. I simply love to know or to determine what drives the characters, their main goals in life will determine their whole story, from where I see it.
With Love, Lady Chusets.
The Bitch promised she would never ever betray Clementine again. The Bitch lied. The Bitch deserves to die.
And this right here makes their decision that much more understandable and a little more sympathetic. You would think that would be obvious....
Not really a reply, but it just occurred to me that while Mike and Bonnie endangering the baby along with the others was certainly dickish, Clementine doesn't bring him up when she confronts them. it might just be fanon on my part, but I would think Mike would be conflicted if she did.
I disagree with this statement. I always got the vibe that while Mike would definitely call Kenny out on his rashness and disagree with his plans, the two seemed to respect each other enough for Mike to try and give Kenny advice on doing Carver's work, help Kenny get moving when Sarita gets bitten, and Kenny to outright state that he never expected Mike to disagree with the Wellington plan or betray them, unlike Jane or Arvo.
To be fair, she definitely seemed to have been sincere when she said that and it is proven should she be on good terms when Arvo shoot Clementine, as she gets upset with Mike and states that she never wanted any of that to happen.
Also, and I know I brought this up already, but they seemed to be in a huge hurry at the time so who knows if she was under the impression that they were intending to leave Clementine when they got caught. So, for all we know, any betrayal of Clementine was never on the table as far as she knew.
Mike is what the writers need him to be, he has no development and we know nothing about him. Literally any other adult character could have been in his place, I wish they had kept nick around instead if he had survived and used Mike as a replacement if nick was dead.
Don't care. She meant to leave a child and an infant without food or wheels just because she herself was scared. Kenny never said a crooked word towards her. Nor Mike for that matter. If they just let Kenny kill the shitbird, Luke would be alive and Clementine wouldn't get shot. She's a junkie backstabbing whore that can fucking rot for all I care.
Holy shit! You make an excellent point because I could totally see Nick doing that. Feeling guilty about Arvo losing his sister and group, losing all hope for cooperation once Luke died, blaming himself for everything that went wrong, and trying to get Arvo away from Kenny.
I can even see Bonnie hopping onto that train of thought as well. And it might have even been preferable to some of their fans/shippers, seeing how Nick's dad left him and then he had conflicted feelings about Pete raising him and having to put down his mom.
One would hope the circumstances regarding AJ and the supplies would be changed up considering both have issues with betrayal. But still, it kinda makes you wonder...
Comment of the day, no doubt.
I was getting at it woulda made more sense...still would have had Clementine catch them...this way their actions would have been aimed at Kenny who they viewed as dangerous and not at the whole group including a newborn and Clementine. Yes it would be a despicable act...but an understandable one. And again Clementine would have stopped it.
And please if we were in a zombie apocalypse, I would have shot Kenny a long time ago, probably after the Larry murder.
I am a practical person....I would help people, but if they go off the reservation like that... Well hell how can you ever turn your back on them?
Okay, I guess now would be a good time to question some of this.
1.Letting Kenny kill Arvo wasn't really gonna solve any problems and in fact, keeping him around technically benefited them since they had little food, supplies, or transport at the time. Plus, there's the fact that they and Jane were afraid that Kenny was losing it and on his way to becoming another Carver, so letting him kill Arvo, who, while definitely an enemy, wasn't an active threat and in fact tried to stop the blast out when he realized it could happen, would only make that possibility more likely. Its the same reason people euthanize dogs who have bitten people unprovoked or why Batman holds a strict no-kill policy: once it happens once, it becomes that much easier to do it again.
2.How exactly did Arvo himself cause Luke to die? If anything, I've seen more people claim that Luke's death was either Bonnie, Clementine, or [unjustly] his own fault, when really it was more of an environmental hazard that happened too fast for everyone to react properly. Now, if you mean that Arvo's group coming to get payback against Jane and Clementine, then I'd agree but only in the sense that the blastout eventually happened and Luke (and Mike)got hit during it. And even then, that had more to do with Buricko refusing to back down, Vitali being a pyscho, and Clementine/Kenny not only firing the first shot but also causing Luke to be caught out in the open.
3.Bonnie had little to do with Mike, Luke, (and Ogg--no I'm kidding),and arguably Jane and Clementine, telling him not to kill Arvo. I'm fine with cause and effect blaming if it makes sequential sense, but you seem to be blaming her for doing a kind/heroic/pragmatic thing that she didn't do.
4.As Clementine and Kenny points out in the truck, people do crazy things when their scared: Jane, Bonnie, and Mike feeling nervous around him after spending so much time around Carver is understandable. Also, did you not understand my comment? I was merely suggesting that leaving Clementine, AJ, and Jane to die may not have been their intention, but they can't really say that since they got caught in a compromising position with Clementine pointing a gun at them. Her not even bringing AJ up (if I remember my "Unintentionally Sympathic" research correctly) doesn't really give her much leeway to convince them that their wrong for wanting to leave. Though the fact that we're meant to assume they were taking all of Arvo's supplies that they could grab was admittedly a serious dick move.
Too bad that they don't know their capitalization.
This comment is to be taken as three extra kudos.
Can't tell if being sarcastic.
Not at all!
I can agree.
There's a huge difference between murdering someone because of baseless accusations (something Kenny has done many times), and murdering someone who produces those baseless accusations and is a danger to the group (whether advertently or inadvertently).
Although I find much pleasure as a player killing Kenny cause he's a cuckboi, my distain stems from him being a direct threat to Clementine. I could give a fuck about AJ at this point, but I wouldn't argue the point that he also risks AJ's life.
I can rape to that.
Honestly, I don't think there was any kind of deep thought process apart from "we need to get away from Kenny, we've got a working car and supplies so now is our best bet". Since neither were close to Clementine or Jane it also makes sense that they wouldn't try and bring them along. Especially if Clementine made it clear that she was cool with Kenny. It felt like a pretty lazy move just to write them out of the show.
The out-of-universe answer is kind of obvious, they need everyone gone for the last choice between 2 characters.
In-universe, they definitively wanted to get away from Kenny or more specifically Keep him from hurting Arvo again (Mike), Bonnie probably didn't want another Carver situation plus he pretty much admitted to them he absolutely doesn't care what they thought. Personally, I wanted to go with them and get the hell out of here, I didn't care if everybody in the game thought I was best friend with Kenny and I try to remind them that no I don't know him that well.
They were both okay with me coming with them if it wasn't for Arvo suddenly shooting her which kind of reminded me of Lilly who left no matter what you say to her in the RV, at least this time Arvo had a grudge against Clementine so it was understandable.
They just really wanted to go to Texas. The sooner, the better.
Define "close". Bonnie seems to genuinely care about Clementine's welfare up until the theft scene. I could understand her anger at Clem over Luke's death, given it was in the heat of the moment. Her actions afterward seemed out of character though. You don't leave two kids to starve with a nutbag and someone who may leave also, just because you are pissy that your old flame died. She also promised Rebecca's corpse that "we" (the group) would look after AJ. While I think the original post has merit and truth to it, I think the theft scene was lazy writing, period.
Huh, really?
Nope, I would have told people that I was leaving and offered Clem and Jane (and AJ though he can';t make decisions) the chocie to come with us, since in my game all of them disagreed with Kenny's plan.
…even the baby.
I suppose you characterized Mira similarly, then? Because this description can fit her to a tee depending on our choices!
Yes, similarly but still too different at the same time. Understand, I see my Mira as a smarter character than Bonnie. Also, whereas my Bonnie is just a coward in some matters, I would say that my Mira is a realist. My Mira knows what is her role in Westeros, she has strong ideals, she can also adapt better than Bonnie, who is willing to make any changes in order to survive a bit more. In other words, Bonnie's decisions are driven by fear, she is scared. Mira in the other hand, is well aware of every step she takes, she is playing the big game after all. I think that the greatest difference between the two of them besides the intellectual level and all that is Mira's self control.
I do see the difference. Whereas your Mira strategizes her every move, planning for the long run, your version of Bonnie was that she would do whatever is necessary to obtain immediate benefits.
And this makes sense, since that's what mainly differentiates Game Of Thrones and The Walking Dead—one is about long-term strategies to gain power and the other one is all about short-term survival; up to "400 Days," at least.
I really hate invoking the whole lazy plot point trope, but it occurs to me that the implication that Mike, Arvo, and Bonnie were apparently taking all of the supplies was just a surefire way of keeping people from sympathizing with them and making their decision wrong.