Yeah, he was a bit too normal, but a nice guy and i wanted him to live longer.
I wouldn't say he was "normal" at all. Sure, he had basic traits like kindness and humanity, but given the fact that they were surviving in a zombie apocalypse, those traits are far from normal at that point.
So they just killed him in the first way they found so that the story could go on.
Honestly, they could have done so much with his character that created chaos like the Season 2 ending actually is. Many people might not be able to see Luke get in a physical fight, but personally, I think the writers could've had him do it somehow. Can you imagine the same guy who didn't want kill a man he absolutely loathed, finally flipping the switches and getting into a fight with Kenny? Granted that was written and executed well, that development would have been amazing.
I feel like they just kiled Luke so that the final choice could be the Kenny/Jane one. Yeah, he was a bit too normal, but a nice guy and i w… moreanted him to live longer. His death was really ridiculous, i hated it. Its like this: he wouldnt leave with Mike and Arvo because he cared about Clem and didnt want to abandon her, and with him around, the final fight probably wouldnt have happened as he was the group guy, who would always try to keep everyone together. So they just killed him in the first way they found so that the story could go on. Shame, wasted potential
I still dont see him going on a physical fight, because of his kindness, but I get your point that this is what would have made this fight so cool. I can agree with everything in the second part of your comment. If the writing in a final conflict between he and Kenny was good, the development and outcome could be amazing.
Yeah, he was a bit too normal, but a nice guy and i wanted him to live longer.
I wouldn't say he was "normal" at all. Sure, he had b… moreasic traits like kindness and humanity, but given the fact that they were surviving in a zombie apocalypse, those traits are far from normal at that point.
So they just killed him in the first way they found so that the story could go on.
Honestly, they could have done so much with his character that created chaos like the Season 2 ending actually is. Many people might not be able to see Luke get in a physical fight, but personally, I think the writers could've had him do it somehow. Can you imagine the same guy who didn't want kill a man he absolutely loathed, finally flipping the switches and getting into a fight with Kenny? Granted that was written and executed well, that development would have been amazing.
I think we can all agree killing Lee was a huge mistake.
I wouldn't consider it a mistake, personally. The ending was one of the first things written for the game. The entire game was practically built around the ending. They didn't know they'd strike gold with this series, and they didn't decide to do a S2 until around episode 3 if I recall correctly. Changing Lee's fate that late into the series, and thus the ending, would have been a bigger mistake than anything else. Not only would that be changing the vision they've had for the story from the very beginning, they would have been ripping out what was essentially one of the supporting beams of the story. Again though, that's just me.
Lee
I think we can all agree killing Lee was a huge mistake. They should have kept him alive and made him PC for S2 and S3. They should have saved that ending of No time left for the series finale. Then it would have had a bigger impact.
I will give you Lee because he fulfilled his storyline in a perfect manner. But we end up with perfect replacements in Omid and Christa who are gonna also have a baby which would create a new dynamic that woulda been cool to deal with. But no. Omid dies in the first scenes and then we separate from Christa a couple minutes after.
Literally bullshit. I'm not sayin it wouldn't have worked without them. But I feel like I wasted my time loving them. And we won't get attached to anyone and that's not fun.
From the game: I guess because the Telltale trend is to kill off all characters I don't have any attachment to any of them, so I guess my answer is all of them. Telltale needs to work on keeping some characters so that there is a main cast that develops from game to game.
From the show:
Beth. Such a waste of a great character. There was no point in killing her off so soon after developing her character other than shock value and the show has been going downhill since.
Mika. Would have been interesting to see long term character development there.
Noah. Another throwaway character for shock value.
Tyreese. He was at least on it for awhile, but as one of the few good characters left at that point, killing him served no purpose.
Merle. He was only a main character on the show for one season and there was a lot of potential for good storytelling and character development, but instead they just threw it away.
Lee (OFFFUCKINGCOURSE)
I would've loved to see more of Nick and Luke's friendship, but hey a girl who I spent some hours with is more important than my best friend who just died!
Molly didn't exactly die but her statue is still unknown, I'd love to see her in S3
Omid and Christa.. Where do I even start?
Basically, anyone? That's the point of deaths in entertainment. If you wish that they'd have stayed longer, then writers—and in some cases the actors—did their job right. I see no problem with that, to be honest.
Okay, the player had the decision between a woman with a gun and...Doug. An IT-guy who couldn't reach a stone right in front of him. But he was one of my favoured characters. (I saved him, felt great and later not so great at season three). Doug had personality and was pretty interesting, but then the player had to make a decision between him and a woman with a gun. I mean, a woman! With a gun!
The problem with that(at least in the show) is they only kill off good characters(with the exception of Lori) while mostly annoying characters are left. I don't think killing the characters should be off limits, but the story should be more about character development than killing good characters for shock value.
Basically, anyone? That's the point of deaths in entertainment. If you wish that they'd have stayed longer, then writers—and in some cases the actors—did their job right. I see no problem with that, to be honest.
I wish Lee had survived to season 2 as the playable character. Even though is personality and actions were mainly in the hands of the player, I still think that as a character he had GREAT potential.
In my opinion, killing him off was the WORST decision Telltale ever made. I think he was a far more interesting character than Clementine.
Where the heck has this thread been hiding these past three months?!
Just gonna list a few for now:
Katjaa(rulebreaker)
Duck(rulebreaker)
Chuck
Michelle
Carver
Troy
Sarita(rulebreaker)
Nick
Sarah
Natasha(and to a lesser extent, Buricko and Vitali)(rulebreaker)
Nick- He was one of my favorite Season 2 introduced characters. His determinant treatment honestly killed me.
Sarah- She had so much potential. I never viewed her as becoming a machine gun wielding badass, but they could've done something more with her character. I wouldn't have even minded them using the same "they can't be saved theme" as long as there was a little more character crammed in there. I don't particularly enjoy that message, but it is a bleak world that would pick out those with disadvantages. (Like myself, unfortunately)
Sarita- She wasn't a great character, which was exactly the problem. I loved Katjaa in season 1 and saw her as a pretty well-rounded character. Sarita, on the other hand, was only Kenny's girlfriend. There wasn't much else there and there could have been. Her death could have been way more upsetting than it was.
Carver- They dehumanized him a little too much for my liking. His death and his everything, pretty much, could've had more impact if he was illustrated as morally grey.
Walter- Walter was mah boi. His philosophies were definitely something I enjoyed, and I thought they could have explored his character much more.
Pete- I found him to be intriguing and likeable. If he lived a little longer, I feel as if he would've been a great character.
I have more (SO MUCH MORE) but these were my main ones.
Nick- He was one of my favorite Season 2 introduced characters. His determinant treatment honestly killed me.
Sarah- She had so much pote… morential. I never viewed her as becoming a machine gun wielding badass, but they could've done something more with her character. I wouldn't have even minded them using the same "they can't be saved theme" as long as there was a little more character crammed in there. I don't particularly enjoy that message, but it is a bleak world that would pick out those with disadvantages. (Like myself, unfortunately)
Sarita- She wasn't a great character, which was exactly the problem. I loved Katjaa in season 1 and saw her as a pretty well-rounded character. Sarita, on the other hand, was only Kenny's girlfriend. There wasn't much else there and there could have been. Her death could have been way more upsetting than it was.
Carver- They dehumanized him a little too much for my liking. His death and his everything… [view original content]
A huge part of me wants to say "No!" considering a. she's determinately still alive, and b. several other characters got sidelined/objectified to focus on her.
Firstly Pete would have been a great character to develop if he hadn't died in episode 1. He was kind to Clementine and the backstory of his sister dying and taking care of Nick when he was younger because his father was never there would have been a good story to expand on. It's a shame Clementine didn't have more time to bond with Pete, because he may have been a possible father figure for her.
Also Nick was a character that was not given the chance to redeem himself after he shot Matthew. I liked the contrast between him and Luke, but this also meant that Nick was overshadowed by Luke and players only saw Nick as being reckless with a gun, (when in reality he was brave and kind, and was obviously still suffering because of the death of his mother) His death was such a waste of potential and telltale didn't even bother to make it on screen (if he died in episode 4)
Where the heck has this thread been hiding these past three months?!
Just gonna list a few for now:
Katjaa(rulebreaker)
Duck(rulebreake… morer)
Chuck
Michelle
Carver
Troy
Sarita(rulebreaker)
Nick
Sarah
Natasha(and to a lesser extent, Buricko and Vitali)(rulebreaker)
Character's whose death actually benefitted and/or helped progress the story. Sarita and Natasha in particular were such necessary weasels that it made the latter's "What I would have changed" entry hard to do.
I think we can all agree killing Lee was a huge mistake.
I wouldn't consider it a mistake, personally. The ending was one of the fir… morest things written for the game. The entire game was practically built around the ending. They didn't know they'd strike gold with this series, and they didn't decide to do a S2 until around episode 3 if I recall correctly. Changing Lee's fate that late into the series, and thus the ending, would have been a bigger mistake than anything else. Not only would that be changing the vision they've had for the story from the very beginning, they would have been ripping out what was essentially one of the supporting beams of the story. Again though, that's just me.
Matthew: If Nick hadn't panicked, then Matthew would be alive and he seemed like a REALLY awesome guy!
Omid: Kinda like what you said, and it was kind of an immediate heart breaker. I don't get why they had to kill him off so quickly... ;A;
Nick: He was a dink but he was a likeable guy!
Luke: Cuz he's a looker (coughI MEAN wuh?) and he was definitely someone that could have made it. And actually, originally, Luke was supposed to survive (there's unused audio clips for that) but they canned that idea...
I'll go ahead and elaborate on my reasoning as to why I listed Michelle. If you want to read a more extensive suggestion(that this explanation cribs material from), check out dan290786 's Change topic!
Michelle is one of the characters I would've like to have seen more of, Omid's accident notwithstanding. Debatably the most complex antagonist (if you don't count Jane/Kenny) and a One scene wonder, she felt like she could have been Season 2's Jolene: unapologeticly thuggish and yet not without a few sympathetic traits and a story to tell. Her purpose in the story of Season 2 is act as the starter villain, kill off the established supporting character of Omid, and set the tone that the rest Season is supposed to operate by. Given how that turned out, I would have loved for her to pop up again at some point in the future, whether it be as an old enemy whose true, frightened self is known by Clementine, some decayed jobber used to establish how much more powerful and competent another villain or hero is, or an uneasy ally who has to deal with the repercussions of what she did that day.
The Russians are a Necessary Weasel example on top of being a rulebreaker.
The slide for Amid the Ruins has Clementine smearing blood on her face as if preparing for war, with numerous silhouettes behind her. I've seen some people theorize that this meant there was supposed to be a dispute between two groups that Clementine would play a role in. Having Natasha, Buricko, and Vitali, with optional assistance from some other characters, act as the opposing side after Jane and Clementine started the conflict by sticking up Arvo would've serve this end and have a legitimate gray vs. grey conflict, with the "heroes" and the antagonists having some people on their side that are more heroic and sympathetic than others. Maybe have Clementine act as a go between since she attempted to convince Jane that this was a bad idea, with another character (possibly an old character like Becca, Tisha, Taavia, etc.) doing the same for the other side.
No, I understand it. Without Carley there to talk some sense to her in a provoking manner or act as a convenient scapegoat should Ben deny responsibility, Lilly took matters into her own hands and decided to just execute Ben on the spot without putting it to a vote or even forcing a true confession out of him beforehand. It makes her killing of Doug and paranoia mean that much more compared to Carley's death, in my opinion.
My uncertainty was over whether Nick and Doug's deaths were really stupid or not.
I wish Lee had survived to season 2 as the playable character. Even though is personality and actions were mainly in the hands of the player… more, I still think that as a character he had GREAT potential.
In my opinion, killing him off was the WORST decision Telltale ever made. I think he was a far more interesting character than Clementine.
Well Doug died a hero saving Ben, so though it was premature, it was acceptable. Nick's death if you save him in E2 was just lazy. He had no lines, gets shot, and then you find him dead. He had so much more story potential I feel.
No, I understand it. Without Carley there to talk some sense to her in a provoking manner or act as a convenient scapegoat should Ben deny r… moreesponsibility, Lilly took matters into her own hands and decided to just execute Ben on the spot without putting it to a vote or even forcing a true confession out of him beforehand. It makes her killing of Doug and paranoia mean that much more compared to Carley's death, in my opinion.
My uncertainty was over whether Nick and Doug's deaths were really stupid or not.
EDIT: Oh, you weren't talking to me.
Yeah, I definitely agree they should've done more with him in Episode 3 at least before they killed him off. At least there were some minor results and story points to his death.
Well Doug died a hero saving Ben, so though it was premature, it was acceptable. Nick's death if you save him in E2 was just lazy. He had no lines, gets shot, and then you find him dead. He had so much more story potential I feel.
Comments
I wouldn't say he was "normal" at all. Sure, he had basic traits like kindness and humanity, but given the fact that they were surviving in a zombie apocalypse, those traits are far from normal at that point.
Honestly, they could have done so much with his character that created chaos like the Season 2 ending actually is. Many people might not be able to see Luke get in a physical fight, but personally, I think the writers could've had him do it somehow. Can you imagine the same guy who didn't want kill a man he absolutely loathed, finally flipping the switches and getting into a fight with Kenny? Granted that was written and executed well, that development would have been amazing.
I still dont see him going on a physical fight, because of his kindness, but I get your point that this is what would have made this fight so cool. I can agree with everything in the second part of your comment. If the writing in a final conflict between he and Kenny was good, the development and outcome could be amazing.
I wouldn't consider it a mistake, personally. The ending was one of the first things written for the game. The entire game was practically built around the ending. They didn't know they'd strike gold with this series, and they didn't decide to do a S2 until around episode 3 if I recall correctly. Changing Lee's fate that late into the series, and thus the ending, would have been a bigger mistake than anything else. Not only would that be changing the vision they've had for the story from the very beginning, they would have been ripping out what was essentially one of the supporting beams of the story. Again though, that's just me.
Omid and Christa
I will give you Lee because he fulfilled his storyline in a perfect manner. But we end up with perfect replacements in Omid and Christa who are gonna also have a baby which would create a new dynamic that woulda been cool to deal with. But no. Omid dies in the first scenes and then we separate from Christa a couple minutes after.
Literally bullshit. I'm not sayin it wouldn't have worked without them. But I feel like I wasted my time loving them. And we won't get attached to anyone and that's not fun.
I meant he should have had a more important role along with everyone else I put for Michonne
From the game: I guess because the Telltale trend is to kill off all characters I don't have any attachment to any of them, so I guess my answer is all of them. Telltale needs to work on keeping some characters so that there is a main cast that develops from game to game.
From the show:
Beth. Such a waste of a great character. There was no point in killing her off so soon after developing her character other than shock value and the show has been going downhill since.
Mika. Would have been interesting to see long term character development there.
Noah. Another throwaway character for shock value.
Tyreese. He was at least on it for awhile, but as one of the few good characters left at that point, killing him served no purpose.
Merle. He was only a main character on the show for one season and there was a lot of potential for good storytelling and character development, but instead they just threw it away.
Lee (OFFFUCKINGCOURSE)
I would've loved to see more of Nick and Luke's friendship, but hey a girl who I spent some hours with is more important than my best friend who just died!
Molly didn't exactly die but her statue is still unknown, I'd love to see her in S3
Omid and Christa.. Where do I even start?
Basically, anyone? That's the point of deaths in entertainment. If you wish that they'd have stayed longer, then writers—and in some cases the actors—did their job right. I see no problem with that, to be honest.
Doug.
Okay, the player had the decision between a woman with a gun and...Doug. An IT-guy who couldn't reach a stone right in front of him. But he was one of my favoured characters. (I saved him, felt great and later not so great at season three). Doug had personality and was pretty interesting, but then the player had to make a decision between him and a woman with a gun. I mean, a woman! With a gun!
The problem with that(at least in the show) is they only kill off good characters(with the exception of Lori) while mostly annoying characters are left. I don't think killing the characters should be off limits, but the story should be more about character development than killing good characters for shock value.
I wish Lee had survived to season 2 as the playable character. Even though is personality and actions were mainly in the hands of the player, I still think that as a character he had GREAT potential.
In my opinion, killing him off was the WORST decision Telltale ever made. I think he was a far more interesting character than Clementine.
Where the heck has this thread been hiding these past three months?!
Just gonna list a few for now:
Katjaa(rulebreaker)
Duck(rulebreaker)
Chuck
Michelle
Carver
Troy
Sarita(rulebreaker)
Nick
Sarah
Natasha(and to a lesser extent, Buricko and Vitali)(rulebreaker)
Nick- He was one of my favorite Season 2 introduced characters. His determinant treatment honestly killed me.
Sarah- She had so much potential. I never viewed her as becoming a machine gun wielding badass, but they could've done something more with her character. I wouldn't have even minded them using the same "they can't be saved theme" as long as there was a little more character crammed in there. I don't particularly enjoy that message, but it is a bleak world that would pick out those with disadvantages. (Like myself, unfortunately)
Sarita- She wasn't a great character, which was exactly the problem. I loved Katjaa in season 1 and saw her as a pretty well-rounded character. Sarita, on the other hand, was only Kenny's girlfriend. There wasn't much else there and there could have been. Her death could have been way more upsetting than it was.
Carver- They dehumanized him a little too much for my liking. His death and his everything, pretty much, could've had more impact if he was illustrated as morally grey.
Walter- Walter was mah boi. His philosophies were definitely something I enjoyed, and I thought they could have explored his character much more.
Pete- I found him to be intriguing and likeable. If he lived a little longer, I feel as if he would've been a great character.
I have more (SO MUCH MORE) but these were my main ones.
Season 2 in a nutshell!
A huge part of me wants to say "No!" considering a. she's determinately still alive, and b. several other characters got sidelined/objectified to focus on her.
What are you guys going to do when Clementine is beaten to death at the end of season three?
Ha-ha! Joke's on you!
I killed Kenny!
Firstly Pete would have been a great character to develop if he hadn't died in episode 1. He was kind to Clementine and the backstory of his sister dying and taking care of Nick when he was younger because his father was never there would have been a good story to expand on. It's a shame Clementine didn't have more time to bond with Pete, because he may have been a possible father figure for her.
Also Nick was a character that was not given the chance to redeem himself after he shot Matthew. I liked the contrast between him and Luke, but this also meant that Nick was overshadowed by Luke and players only saw Nick as being reckless with a gun, (when in reality he was brave and kind, and was obviously still suffering because of the death of his mother) His death was such a waste of potential and telltale didn't even bother to make it on screen (if he died in episode 4)
Why would she get beaten to death at the end of S3?
What do you mean by rule breaker?
Character's whose death actually benefitted and/or helped progress the story. Sarita and Natasha in particular were such necessary weasels that it made the latter's "What I would have changed" entry hard to do.
Probably someone operating off the logic that Javier has to be evil.
Well, that or the fact that having her die at the end would put her up there with Lee and Kenny/Jane/both.
WHEN YOU REALIZED SOMEONE NECRO'D DA THREAD....
As far as I can tell, reviving an old thread is ok as long as it isn't over six months old or it generates new interesting discussion.
Then again, considering I heard this from zombiebonnie, who knows?
For me, it will always be Chuck. He could have been more before he died too soon.
Now that you mention it, he does have the same effect Nick had one my first playthrough:.
So, yeah I don't think bringing him back would've been too much trouble.
I think Nick and Doug had potential as well but they died to dumb things.
Uncle Pete.
Matthew: If Nick hadn't panicked, then Matthew would be alive and he seemed like a REALLY awesome guy!
Omid: Kinda like what you said, and it was kind of an immediate heart breaker. I don't get why they had to kill him off so quickly... ;A;
Nick: He was a dink but he was a likeable guy!
Luke: Cuz he's a looker (coughI MEAN wuh?) and he was definitely someone that could have made it. And actually, originally, Luke was supposed to survive (there's unused audio clips for that) but they canned that idea...
I really wish Carley hadn't died, I would've like to see her and Lee develop their relationship.
And Omid of course. His face will always be missed.
I'll go ahead and elaborate on my reasoning as to why I listed Michelle. If you want to read a more extensive suggestion(that this explanation cribs material from), check out dan290786 's Change topic!
Michelle is one of the characters I would've like to have seen more of, Omid's accident notwithstanding. Debatably the most complex antagonist (if you don't count Jane/Kenny) and a One scene wonder, she felt like she could have been Season 2's Jolene: unapologeticly thuggish and yet not without a few sympathetic traits and a story to tell. Her purpose in the story of Season 2 is act as the starter villain, kill off the established supporting character of Omid, and set the tone that the rest Season is supposed to operate by. Given how that turned out, I would have loved for her to pop up again at some point in the future, whether it be as an old enemy whose true, frightened self is known by Clementine, some decayed jobber used to establish how much more powerful and competent another villain or hero is, or an uneasy ally who has to deal with the repercussions of what she did that day.
The Russians are a Necessary Weasel example on top of being a rulebreaker.
The slide for Amid the Ruins has Clementine smearing blood on her face as if preparing for war, with numerous silhouettes behind her. I've seen some people theorize that this meant there was supposed to be a dispute between two groups that Clementine would play a role in. Having Natasha, Buricko, and Vitali, with optional assistance from some other characters, act as the opposing side after Jane and Clementine started the conflict by sticking up Arvo would've serve this end and have a legitimate gray vs. grey conflict, with the "heroes" and the antagonists having some people on their side that are more heroic and sympathetic than others. Maybe have Clementine act as a go between since she attempted to convince Jane that this was a bad idea, with another character (possibly an old character like Becca, Tisha, Taavia, etc.) doing the same for the other side.
Ehh....
No, I understand it. Without Carley there to talk some sense to her in a provoking manner or act as a convenient scapegoat should Ben deny responsibility, Lilly took matters into her own hands and decided to just execute Ben on the spot without putting it to a vote or even forcing a true confession out of him beforehand. It makes her killing of Doug and paranoia mean that much more compared to Carley's death, in my opinion.
My uncertainty was over whether Nick and Doug's deaths were really stupid or not.
EDIT: Oh, you weren't talking to me.
...Meh.
Let's see: black man who murdered someone or little girl surviving against zombies?
Well Doug died a hero saving Ben, so though it was premature, it was acceptable. Nick's death if you save him in E2 was just lazy. He had no lines, gets shot, and then you find him dead. He had so much more story potential I feel.
Yeah, I definitely agree they should've done more with him in Episode 3 at least before they killed him off. At least there were some minor results and story points to his death.
@LoseMyHome