* Explain the reasoning behind Arvo shooting Clem even though she drops her gun and gives it to Mike and protects him from Kenny.
* Why he … morehas to ambush Clem's group even if Clem didn't steal his bag.
* Why must he be stupid and not listen to Kenny's warning to stop walking when he can clearly understand English.
1) How do you know it was intentional? If he wanted to kill Clementine, he would've KILLED Clementine. I doubt he has such a poor shot that he would hit her in a not-so-fatal-area, ESPECIALLY at such a close range.
2) Did she have a gun? Nope. And also, she may not be physically sick. There are some diseases and illnesses that don't take on such a great or obvious physical form (man, I'm REALLY starting to go all theorist with that statement XD )
3) Good point; but that was kinda meant as a light-hearted 'don't call him stupid'. LOL
1) He gave her death glares because she killed his sister, mate! And it should be good enough to know that he regretted it...
Just b… moreecause he regretted it doesn't excuse him for intentionally trying to kill Clem.
2) Clementine was there when the robbery attempt was mentioned by Jane. He generalized Clementine as one who was there, and yes, he doesn't say 'one of the ones'. You can also tell him that it was Jane who wanted to steal from him and he asks where she was. And he had a sick sister; Natasha is proof of that. If you ask him about his sister, the reason he sounded hesitant was probably because he had a group with him. He appeared to be alone but his group was hiding.
If you tell him Jane is close by, he just says it's a trap and continues trying to rob the group. What proof shows Natasha is sick? Seems heathy enough to get into a firefight.
3) I never said he didn't understand a single word; please, this is … [view original content]
1) Clementine did tell Kenneth to stop several times, but even then he wouldn't listen.
2) Cuz I can post 2 XP
3) Once again, they had baby formula (if I remember a discussion, once again, that happened) - and why would they take baby supplies, anyways, when they have no use for them?
4) I know it doesn't, but I'm only arguing why Arvo did shoot her. It's not any less wrong but it is still SLIGHTLY justified.
(Yeah, exactly! There are a couple of people on here who are getting a wee bit too into it, but yeah, I enjoy the competitiveness of debating ^_^)
* Kenny was deeply hostile towards Arvo, it's true, but I doubt he would've killed him, not with Clem telling him no to do it.
* Fair eno… moreugh.
* Even though, finding food in those conditions isn't exactly easy. Babies need constant care.
* I also think he did want Clem dead since the moment she shoots his sister. It's also a possibility that he just panicked at the thought of Clem finding out they were leaving and he just shot out of instinct, but it doesn't make it any less wrong.
(And naw, don't worry, this is probably one of the most civil discussions I had. It feels good to discuss things this way without people getting personal and to each other's throats. It's just perspective and opinions, they're all valid and they all should be respected. Nobody's wrong. People should be able to discuss each other's point of view in a civil manner. )
He does stop in the cabin if you tell him to stop, although he can say stuff like "What? You lost your taste for this sorta thing?"
Well, I dunno what to say here. I'll just say Mac 'n' Cheese. Yum.
Maybe they wanted AJ's diapers for Arvo. (Okay, I'm getting into "bad joke" territory now XD)
For many people, just the fact of him shooting Clem is enough justification to hate him.
(I'm not a competitive guy since I'm a really sensitive person and I get "mad" easily, but I love a good respectful conversation without any personal jokes/insults or burns. )
1) Clementine did tell Kenneth to stop several times, but even then he wouldn't listen.
2) Cuz I can post 2 XP
3) Once again, they had bab… morey formula (if I remember a discussion, once again, that happened) - and why would they take baby supplies, anyways, when they have no use for them?
4) I know it doesn't, but I'm only arguing why Arvo did shoot her. It's not any less wrong but it is still SLIGHTLY justified.
(Yeah, exactly! There are a couple of people on here who are getting a wee bit too into it, but yeah, I enjoy the competitiveness of debating ^_^)
Jane takes his gun no matter what and basically threatens to kill him if she ever sees him again. That could have been all the meds he had and his group might have really needed it. And yeah the plan wasn't very well thought out at all and very suicidal indeed.
Arvo's group was justified in getting their revenge and Clementine and Jane should have expected it. I've seen people say that his group wer… moree bandits. If that's the case then Clementine and Jane should also be considered bandits to a degree by robbing him in the first place.
You're ignoring the scenario were Jane and Clem don't rob them. In that case, what is Arvo's group if not bandits?
And seriously, risking their lives attempting to rob a group of people that clearly outnumbered them for a little stash of painkillers? They must be very terretorial bandits (and suicidal!).
1) He doesn't stop, and if I remember correctly, he only stops because you tried to stop him but he ends up hitting you while you were trying to stop him. (I'm sounding really redundant right now...)
2) I actually ate some mac n cheese for breakfast and lunch today! ^(030)^
3) Great, now you just put a VERY unwanted image in my brain XD
4) Yeah, I agree, but I am one of the few who didn't really hate him for shooting her because I actually understood why he did and DID NOT appreciated Kenneth abusing him. There are a few people who think along the same lines as me, of course.
* He does stop in the cabin if you tell him to stop, although he can say stuff like "What? You lost your taste for this sorta thing?"
* W… moreell, I dunno what to say here. I'll just say Mac 'n' Cheese. Yum.
* Maybe they wanted AJ's diapers for Arvo. (Okay, I'm getting into "bad joke" territory now XD)
* For many people, just the fact of him shooting Clem is enough justification to hate him.
(I'm not a competitive guy since I'm a really sensitive person and I get "mad" easily, but I love a good respectful conversation without any personal jokes/insults or burns. )
1) How do you know it was intentional? If he wanted to kill Clementine, he would've KILLED Clementine. I doubt he has such a poor shot that he would hit her in a not-so-fatal-area.
Because he had that pause before his regret face. Watch the scene for yourself. Also, he shot right above her heart. He could be a bad shot, that's why he's seen not holding a gun with the rest of the Russians.
2) Did she have a gun? Nope. And also, she may not be physically sick. There are some diseases and illnesses that don't take on such a great or obvious physical form (man, I'm REALLY starting to go all theorist with that statement XD )
Who had a gun? When Arvo is asked what kind of illness his sister back when he first meet him, he says stutters and says he needs to keep it safe. So that shows he could've been lying.
3) Good point; but that was kinda meant as a light-hearted 'don't call him stupid'. LOL
Okay then, I know the my post make me look sarcastic, but I'm not.
1) How do you know it was intentional? If he wanted to kill Clementine, he would've KILLED Clementine. I doubt he has such a poor shot that … morehe would hit her in a not-so-fatal-area, ESPECIALLY at such a close range.
2) Did she have a gun? Nope. And also, she may not be physically sick. There are some diseases and illnesses that don't take on such a great or obvious physical form (man, I'm REALLY starting to go all theorist with that statement XD )
3) Good point; but that was kinda meant as a light-hearted 'don't call him stupid'. LOL
Jane takes his gun no matter what and basically threatens to kill him if she ever sees him again.
And I'm glad you brought the 'gun excuse' into the table. It leads me to the second part of my reasoning to why I think they're definitely bandits.
If Arvo's group needed that gun so bad, then why didn't they just ask for it? Arvo was sent back home, unharmed and with all his meds. They had 0 reasons to believe that this group wouldn't colaborate. Instead, they chose to take a violent and agressive appraoch and ask for all their meds, a typical approach among bandits.
Even in the scenario where Jane robs Arvo, any normal and decent group of people would ask for only the meds and not the whole supplies and guns the group had.
This leads me to believe that Arvo's group was indeed a group of bandits.
Jane takes his gun no matter what and basically threatens to kill him if she ever sees him again. That could have been all the meds he had a… morend his group might have really needed it. And yeah the plan wasn't very well thought out at all and very suicidal indeed.
1) He doesn't stop, and if I remember correctly, he only stops because you tried to stop him but he ends up hitting you while you were tryin… moreg to stop him. (I'm sounding really redundant right now...)
2) I actually ate some mac n cheese for breakfast and lunch today! ^(030)^
3) Great, now you just put a VERY unwanted image in my brain XD
4) Yeah, I agree, but I am one of the few who didn't really hate him for shooting her because I actually understood why he did and DID NOT appreciated Kenneth abusing him. There are a few people who think along the same lines as me, of course.
1) I have watched the scene... MANY times... I think anyone would hesitate before reacting if you shot someone. The same hesitation was seen in Lilly's face in Season 1 when she shot Carley/Doug (determinant). Even though Lilly wanted to shoot Carley, there was still that "Oh shit" face. And the reason Arvo didn't have a gun; To recap when Arvo was confronted by Jane and Clementine - Jane took his gun from him, no matter if you agreed to rob him or not. That's why he is without a weapon.
2) Indeed, but why would he be lying about medications? And Natasha wasn't the one with a gun, neither was Arvo; that's what I meant by that.
3) No worries.
1) How do you know it was intentional? If he wanted to kill Clementine, he would've KILLED Clementine. I doubt he has such a poor shot that … morehe would hit her in a not-so-fatal-area.
Because he had that pause before his regret face. Watch the scene for yourself. Also, he shot right above her heart. He could be a bad shot, that's why he's seen not holding a gun with the rest of the Russians.
2) Did she have a gun? Nope. And also, she may not be physically sick. There are some diseases and illnesses that don't take on such a great or obvious physical form (man, I'm REALLY starting to go all theorist with that statement XD )
Who had a gun? When Arvo is asked what kind of illness his sister back when he first meet him, he says stutters and says he needs to keep it safe. So that shows he could've been lying.
3) Good point; but that was kinda meant as a light-hearted 'don't call him stupid'. LOL
Okay then, I know the my post make me look sarcastic, but I'm not.
Because the damage had already been done by then. It wasn't about just smoothing things over with the group. It was about revenge. They left the kid without a gun, which puts his safety at even more risk. Think about if someone had robbed Clementine and threatened to kill her if they saw her again. A lot of players would be furious and want to take revenge on whoever done this if they could.
Jane takes his gun no matter what and basically threatens to kill him if she ever sees him again.
And I'm glad you brought the 'gun … moreexcuse' into the table. It leads me to the second part of my reasoning to why I think they're definitely bandits.
If Arvo's group needed that gun so bad, then why didn't they just ask for it? Arvo was sent back home, unharmed and with all his meds. They had 0 reasons to believe that this group wouldn't colaborate. Instead, they chose to take a violent and agressive appraoch and ask for all their meds, a typical approach among bandits.
Even in the scenario where Jane robs Arvo, any normal and decent group of people would ask for only the meds and not the whole supplies and guns the group had.
This leads me to believe that Arvo's group was indeed a group of bandits.
1) Yeah, I just looked it up. I think I remembered that specifically because when I was playing the game on my phone I tried to defend Arvo as much as possible and ended up having Clementine get hit.
2) WHYYYYY? ;A;
3) ^3^
4) I actually thought about that the first time I watched a playthrough on YouTube - I DEFINITELY would've cried a lot and I would've been mad at Arvo. My feeling when she got shot was "Oh my gosh, she got shot! Why did he do that?!" - if she actually died, then I think my thought process would've been more like - "How -bleeping- dare he! Why would he do such a thing!?" And I would've hated him JUST for that specific thing, only. Then I would've tried to reason with myself why he would do it. Then I would squander in self-pity (kudos if you get the reference).
* That's determinant, he hits Clem unintentionally, and he stops when he realizes he's hit her.
* I'm on a diet so I can't have any of th… moreat.
* ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
* What would've been your reaction if Clem actually died because of him? Just curious now. XD
1) I have watched the scene... MANY times... I think anyone would hesitate before reacting if you shot someone. The same hesitation was seen in Lilly's face in Season 1 when she shot Carley/Doug (determinant). Even though Lilly wanted to shoot Carley, there was still that "Oh shit" face. And the reason Arvo didn't have a gun; To recap when Arvo was confronted by Jane and Clementine - Jane took his gun from him, no matter if you agreed to rob him or not. That's why he is without a weapon.
Exactly, Arvo wanted to shoot Clem, whether he regretted or not doesn't matter, it shouldn't excuse from any hate.
2) Indeed, but why would he be lying about medications? And Natasha wasn't the one with a gun, neither was Arvo; that's what I meant by that.
To give himself pity so Clem wouldn't take the medicine. I still don't get the gun part though. You mean when Jane and Clem meet him or when he tries to steal Clem's stuff?
1) I have watched the scene... MANY times... I think anyone would hesitate before reacting if you shot someone. The same hesitation was seen… more in Lilly's face in Season 1 when she shot Carley/Doug (determinant). Even though Lilly wanted to shoot Carley, there was still that "Oh shit" face. And the reason Arvo didn't have a gun; To recap when Arvo was confronted by Jane and Clementine - Jane took his gun from him, no matter if you agreed to rob him or not. That's why he is without a weapon.
2) Indeed, but why would he be lying about medications? And Natasha wasn't the one with a gun, neither was Arvo; that's what I meant by that.
3) No worries.
1) How do you know he WANTED to shoot her? Like Lilly did, if he wanted to shoot her then he would've done it right away instead of waiting. It would've been stupid of him to want to shoot her and then be like, "Oh, wait, I should maybe sit here with my gun pointed at her until derp happens, THEN I shoot her" (I'm sorry, I've been replying to comments almost non-stop since I got home from work about a hour ago - I get weird when my brain is on overdrive).
2)No, Jane takes the gun so then he doesn't shoot Clementine and then she doesn't return it, so he is without a weapon COMPLETELY. He posed no threat in the first place, only his colleagues did. And why make Clementine pity him? There was no evidence that he or his group members were drug addicts whatsoever. Also, this was the Zombie Apocalypse - I doubt you would want to lose so many PRECIOUS resources when they could and are limited.
1) I have watched the scene... MANY times... I think anyone would hesitate before reacting if you shot someone. The same hesitation was seen… more in Lilly's face in Season 1 when she shot Carley/Doug (determinant). Even though Lilly wanted to shoot Carley, there was still that "Oh shit" face. And the reason Arvo didn't have a gun; To recap when Arvo was confronted by Jane and Clementine - Jane took his gun from him, no matter if you agreed to rob him or not. That's why he is without a weapon.
Exactly, Arvo wanted to shoot Clem, whether he regretted or not doesn't matter, it shouldn't excuse from any hate.
2) Indeed, but why would he be lying about medications? And Natasha wasn't the one with a gun, neither was Arvo; that's what I meant by that.
To give himself pity so Clem wouldn't take the medicine. I still don't get the gun part though. You mean when Jane and Clem meet him or when he tries to steal Clem's stuff?
This is the first time that we've been in opposite sides of a discussion, so this should be interesting! I will do my best to change your opinion, and I am open to rejecting my current one and picking up yours if you manage to convince me.
All hail the refill of your mobile date.
Arvo and his group ambush you. There's no denying to that. They were a group of bandits, they try to take your stuff even if you don't steal from them.
As @wdfan said below, our group is the one that commenced conflict as soon as Jane took Arvo's gun, threatened to kill him while pinning him over a handrail, and determinantly robbed him of invaluable medicine that his sister needed. Jane herself is ashamed shortly after of her deplorable behavior, comparing herself to a bandit. Given, taking his gun was a safety precaution for us, but it left him defenseless for miles. It's not reasonable to condemn them for coming back and demanding us to give them our supplies.
And, I know, some people argue that he may not have wanted the ambush to happen, but we can't forget that that's only an assumption with very little base to it.
Lots of these people support this theory because of the translation of the Russian dialogue, which I don't have in my power to share as evidence because the video was deleted by the author. Basically—and you will have to take my word—it showed that Arvo was against going on with the ambush starting when Buricko and Vitali made jokes, and he became desperate for everyone to lay of off our group once he noticed that we had a newborn with us. Natasha is also reluctant and fears for her life, while the man with the assault rifle says that he doesn't care about their opinion, and the man with the shotgun threatens to kill Kenny.
This is a very relevant base, not a very little one.
And we also can't forget the smug face and tone Arvo gives while saying the lines 'But, you... You're Clementine.' - Arvo in Amid The Ruins while smilling like he was actually happy that they had found them
This line is only said by him in the playthroughs in which Clementine and Jane stole his sister's medicine, and not in those in which they didn't. Arvo being glad that he found the people who robbed him to get his supplies back and also some extra is not something that I would consider shocking.
also the coldness in his voice while saying 'I told them you're the ones who robbed me. They think it's funny that you're just a little girl.' (- Arvo, ATR) this shows that he dispised Clem and her group as much as the people in his group did.
He sounds like he is narrating what happened in a language that he is inexperienced more than revealing his evil plan. Out of everything that he said, this is probably what I find the least offensive.
When Buriko and everyone else start pointing guns at eachother, Arvo becomes preocupied and warry, but not because he doesn't want anyone to die and doesn't want to see violence as some people make it out to be, but because he and his sister were in danger. That's all there is to it, nothing points otherwise (and let me know if you find anything).
Would it be bad if he mainly worried about his and his sister's safety over the two men who push him and other random strangers? Besides, I am sure that he said something about our group in the translation, but I cannot remember what it is.
Arvo got his punishment when he lost his whole group. There was no need to make him pay for his mistakes anymore, loosing everyone and everything because of his own mistakes was enough pain already but that does not mean that people should forget what he had done.
Agreed a hundred percent.
Shooting Clem was the result of several beatings from Kenny, the loss of everyone he knew and the false assumption that Clem had killed his sister.
Again, that "assumption" was the only reasonable thing to believe given what he knew. I feel like you're purposely using this word to present it in a way that Arvo jumped to conclusions.
I still think he acted wrongly when shooting Clem, of course. She had lowered her gun and had agreed to come with them and he still shot her.
I still think he acted wrongly when shooting Clem, of course. She had lowered her gun and had agreed to come with them and he still shot her.
Saying she would come with them is determinant, though. She can also yell her lungs out to call for Kenny and Jane's help. Nonetheless, I coincide in that it was immoral to have shot her, though I still opine that his motivations are often misunderstood.
(I wish I used the right word here!)
Perfectly!
Because I think that this discussion has potential, I will ask you to refrain from skipping some of my points. You might be subconsciously tempted to jump over when you feel like I bring a good argument that opposes what you think, and that's human nature—speaking from personal experience. But please don't do so.
I don't think the hate Arvo gets is unreasonable at all. Some people take it too far, sure, saying that he should be killed in cold blood if… more they ever find him again but other people also take it too far to try and make it seem like he's some sort of angel who did nothing wrong.
Arvo and his group ambush you. Tere's no denying to that. They were a group of bandits, they try to take your stuff even if you don't steal from them. And, I know, some people argue that he may not have wanted the ambush to happen, but we can't forget that that's only an assumption with very little base to it. Just because Buriko and Vitali look like the 'though' ones, it doesn't mean that they're atomatically the ones that planned the ambush. That's generalizing them based on their looks. And we also can't forget the smug face and tone Arvo gives while saying the lines 'But, you... You're Clementine.' - Arvo in Amid The Ruins while smilling like he was actually ha… [view original content]
I think everyone's hearts stopped in that moment, I mean, not many would think she really died since she was hit in the shoulder but since it was so near her heart we all panicked, and then the way she falls and starts to bleed out and how quickly she passes out... Welp, we too thought "No, not again, not again..."
1) Yeah, I just looked it up. I think I remembered that specifically because when I was playing the game on my phone I tried to defend Arvo … moreas much as possible and ended up having Clementine get hit.
2) WHYYYYY? ;A;
3) ^3^
4) I actually thought about that the first time I watched a playthrough on YouTube - I DEFINITELY would've cried a lot and I would've been mad at Arvo. My feeling when she got shot was "Oh my gosh, she got shot! Why did he do that?!" - if she actually died, then I think my thought process would've been more like - "How -bleeping- dare he! Why would he do such a thing!?" And I would've hated him JUST for that specific thing, only. Then I would've tried to reason with myself why he would do it. Then I would squander in self-pity (kudos if you get the reference).
1) Your heart is more near the center. Shoulder wounds, realistically, are a lot more deadly than what's portrayed in movies and Tv shows, but yeah, Clementine was also a child so there was a lot more of a chance of her actually dying compared to if she were an adult. If she were an adult that got shot in the shoulder, she would be a lot more stronger and less likely to faint or pass out.
* Well I think~
* We should now~
* Remove these three first parts. XD
* I think everyone's hearts stopped in that moment, I mean, not man… morey would think she really died since she was hit in the shoulder but since it was so near her heart we all panicked, and then the way she falls and starts to bleed out and how quickly she passes out... Welp, we too thought "No, not again, not again..."
Reference is from Night at the Museum? :P
1) How do you know he WANTED to shoot her? Like Lilly did, if he wanted to shoot her then he would've done it right away instead of waiting. It would've been stupid of him to want to shoot her and then be like, "Oh, wait, I should maybe sit here with my gun pointed at her until derp happens, THEN I shoot her" (I'm sorry, I've been replying to comments almost non-stop since I got home from work about a hour ago - I get weird when my brain is on overdrive).
Because of his death glares. The only he didn't shoot was because Mike and Bonnie were friends with her. Eventually he said screw it and shot her.
2)No, Jane takes the gun so then he doesn't shoot Clementine and then she doesn't return it, so he is without a weapon COMPLETELY. He posed no threat in the first place, only his colleagues did. And why make Clementine pity him? There was no evidence that he or his group members were drug addicts whatsoever. Also, this was the Zombie Apocalypse - I doubt you would want to lose so many PRECIOUS resources when they could and are limited.
Why would you a return a gun to a dangerous stranger? He seemed pretty grateful that his medicine wasn't stolen and he does say take anything but the medicine so he shouldn't care about the gun.
1) How do you know he WANTED to shoot her? Like Lilly did, if he wanted to shoot her then he would've done it right away instead of waiting.… more It would've been stupid of him to want to shoot her and then be like, "Oh, wait, I should maybe sit here with my gun pointed at her until derp happens, THEN I shoot her" (I'm sorry, I've been replying to comments almost non-stop since I got home from work about a hour ago - I get weird when my brain is on overdrive).
2)No, Jane takes the gun so then he doesn't shoot Clementine and then she doesn't return it, so he is without a weapon COMPLETELY. He posed no threat in the first place, only his colleagues did. And why make Clementine pity him? There was no evidence that he or his group members were drug addicts whatsoever. Also, this was the Zombie Apocalypse - I doubt you would want to lose so many PRECIOUS resources when they could and are limited.
While Arvo doesn't deserve the hatred he gets, I still stand by what I have said before.
"I am not neurologically wired to think that it's okay to shoot Clementine."
Yes, but if you're distracted in that moment you could've think she got shot in her heart, or very near to it. I remember this YouTuber playing it who literally ripped his shirt off out of rage and sorrow. XD
1) Your heart is more near the center. Shoulder wounds, realistically, are a lot more deadly than what's portrayed in movies and Tv shows, b… moreut yeah, Clementine was also a child so there was a lot more of a chance of her actually dying compared to if she were an adult. If she were an adult that got shot in the shoulder, she would be a lot more stronger and less likely to faint or pass out.
I personally don't hate him to the point where I want him dead but I can understand why others do. The main reason: for shooting Clementine.
Lets say someone you love/care about A LOT gets shot. In that moment you won't think about anything else. They hurt someone you care about so the first instinct is to want them dead. Some people have this feeling stronger than others, to the point where it's impossible to reason with them. I mean, at least the hate is some what justified. Arvo shooting Clementine is better than any other reason to hate him. (Especially when she even lowers her gun.) So I find it a waste of time (all due respect to them) arguing with them about it.
How do you know that? Where is that in the game? Oh, and I give death glares all the time to people, but that doesn't mean I want to do insert scenario here to them because they did insert other scenario here to insert name here.
2)I never said Jane would/should return it, I only said that she is the one who took the gun and, in turn, he didn't have the gun at the confrontation. You said that he might not have had a gun at the confrontation because he was a bad shot, I explained why he didn't have his gun with him at the confrontation - not because he was a bad shot, but because his gun was taken from him by Jane and it wasn't returned to him (not saying it should be/would be) so he was left without a weapon.
3) OH! I also remembered, it is a determinant in this situation, but Arvo DID say that his friends were telling him to tell her (Clementine) for she and her friends to put down their weapons to take their things. Then (determinant of speech) he also says that he wished he could've met Clementine differently, since she was kind and that that wasn't common. (Proof -- ) he can also be heard trying to tell them not to shoot. This is proof that he (determinant of actions and speech) doesn't want any bloodshed. Chances are that he just used his friends as backup.
1) How do you know he WANTED to shoot her? Like Lilly did, if he wanted to shoot her then he would've done it right away instead of waiting.… more It would've been stupid of him to want to shoot her and then be like, "Oh, wait, I should maybe sit here with my gun pointed at her until derp happens, THEN I shoot her" (I'm sorry, I've been replying to comments almost non-stop since I got home from work about a hour ago - I get weird when my brain is on overdrive).
Because of his death glares. The only he didn't shoot was because Mike and Bonnie were friends with her. Eventually he said screw it and shot her.
2)No, Jane takes the gun so then he doesn't shoot Clementine and then she doesn't return it, so he is without a weapon COMPLETELY. He posed no threat in the first place, only his colleagues did. And why make Clementine pity him? There was no evidence that he or his group members were drug addicts whatsoever. Also, this was the Zombie… [view original content]
Yes, but if you're distracted in that moment you could've think she got shot in her heart, or very near to it. I remember this YouTuber playing it who literally ripped his shirt off out of rage and sorrow. XD
How do you know that? Where is that in the game? Oh, and I give death glares all the time to people, but that doesn't mean I want to do insert scenario here to them because they did insert other scenario here to insert name here.
He looked pretty pissed off when Clem was saved by Jane when she was trying to save Luke.
2)I never said Jane would/should return it, I only said that she is the one who took the gun and, in turn, he didn't have the gun at the confrontation. You said that he might not have had a gun at the confrontation because he was a bad shot, I explained why he didn't have his gun with him at the confrontation - not because he was a bad shot, but because his gun was taken from him by Jane and it wasn't returned to him (not saying it should be/would be) so he was left without a weapon.
But you did say that Jane taking it is good enough reason to hunt them down.
3) OH! I also remembered, it is a determinant in this situation, but Arvo DID say that his friends were telling him to tell her (Clementine) for she and her friends to put down their weapons to take their things. Then (determinant of speech) he also says that he wished he could've met Clementine differently, since she was kind and that that wasn't common. (Proof -- ) he can also be heard trying to tell them not to shoot. This is proof that he (determinant of actions and speech) doesn't want any bloodshed. Chances are that he just used his friends as backup.
Why is it a good thing for them to say we gonna take your stuff? Also the reason he's telling them to stop is because he doesn't want to die. He doesn't care about bloodshed.
Look, it's obvious that we're not gonna agree on things and this will go on all night if we let it. So in short, him shooting Clem is more than enough reason for me to hate him.
How do you know that? Where is that in the game? Oh, and I give death glares all the time to people, but that doesn't mean I want to do inse… morert scenario here to them because they did insert other scenario here to insert name here.
2)I never said Jane would/should return it, I only said that she is the one who took the gun and, in turn, he didn't have the gun at the confrontation. You said that he might not have had a gun at the confrontation because he was a bad shot, I explained why he didn't have his gun with him at the confrontation - not because he was a bad shot, but because his gun was taken from him by Jane and it wasn't returned to him (not saying it should be/would be) so he was left without a weapon.
3) OH! I also remembered, it is a determinant in this situation, but Arvo DID say that his friends were telling him to tell her (Clementine) for she and her friends to put down their weapons to take their things. Then (determinant of… [view original content]
He didn't need to shoot Clem either, he was already leaving and Clem could've been unarmed. He could've just gotten into the truck with Bonnie and Mike and just leave.
That is curious! I will put what you said in Arvo's perspective.
Arvo obviously cares about his sister to a high degree, and as far as he knows, she was shot dead. From that moment he didn't think about anything else. Clementine hurt Natasha and he wants her dead for it. The hate is somewhat justified, isn't it?
I know you were not asking for comments like this, but I thought that this was the perfect chance to use a little of a change of view.
I personally don't hate him to the point where I want him dead but I can understand why others do. The main reason: for shooting Clementine… more.
Lets say someone you love/care about A LOT gets shot. In that moment you won't think about anything else. They hurt someone you care about so the first instinct is to want them dead. Some people have this feeling stronger than others, to the point where it's impossible to reason with them. I mean, at least the hate is some what justified. Arvo shooting Clementine is better than any other reason to hate him. (Especially when she even lowers her gun.) So I find it a waste of time (all due respect to them) arguing with them about it.
I will do my best to change your opinion, and I am open to rejecting my current one and picking up yours if you manage to convince me.
I'm glad you're like this, honestly. I feel like at times, people on these forums refrain to admit that they are wrong because they fear their pride might be damaged. I see it in a total different way. Admitting a mistake takes way more courage than keeping on rambling about something that has already been proven wrong. If people never changed their minds and didn't admit their mistakes/misunderstandings, then no-one would ever be able to improve.
All hail the refill of your mobile date.
They refilled it at 00:04am. They were 4 minutes late!!! That's it, I'm suing them.
As @.wdfan said below, our group is the one that commenced conflict as soon as Jane took Arvo's gun, threatened to kill him while pinning him over a handrail, and determinantly robbed him of invaluable medicine that his sister needed. Jane herself is ashamed shortly after of her deplorable behavior, comparing herself to a bandit. Given, taking his gun was a safety precaution for us, but it left him defenseless for miles. It's not reasonable to condemn them for coming back and demanding us to give them our supplies.
Thing is, if they're attacking for the little revolver, surely they could've tried to ask for it before they started threathening them. And if the problem here was really only the gun, they why did they ask for all their supplies?
Same thing applies if Clem and Jane do steal the meds. In that scenario they are way more justified for pointing guns at the group and demand what was theirs and even resort to violence if the group refused to pay them back in some way, but they still didn't necessarily need to demand all the group had, it wasn't their only option.
Jane threatening Arvo was understandable and was just a warning. She didn't really harm him in any way and if the group attacks because of some words they really overreacted.
Lots of these people support this theory because of the translation of the Russian dialogue, which I don't have in my power to share as evidence because the video was deleted by the author. Basically—and you will have to take my word—it showed that Arvo was against going on with the ambush starting when Buricko and Vitali made jokes, and he became desperate for everyone to lay of off our group once he noticed that we had a newborn with us. Natasha is also reluctant and fears for her life, while the man with the assault rifle says that he doesn't care about their opinion, and the man with the shotgun threatens to kill Kenny.
OK. I wasn't aware of that. It's good to know, though. I still hold Arvo and Natasha (I always prefered the name Maud instead of the generic Russian name 'Natasha') accountable and partially to blame here.
I'm going to use a comparison here (this is a bit of an exageration, but it's the best I could find to describe my feelings on this situation).
During the holocaust, hundreds of German soldiers commited war dispicable and unhuman war crimes against inocent people. They were acting under the orders of their tyranicall leaders, yet they are still held accountable for their terrible actions.
Now, Arvo and Natasha weren't obviously planning on commiting genocide, but they were still partaking in the plan against Clem's group.
Still, that makes Arvo's actions way more justifiable indeed. Obviously, Arvo and Natasha could've tried to go against Vitali and Buriko but I understand why they wouldn't take the chance of going against their leaders only to help a group of unknown people.
This is a very relevant base, not a very little one.
Well, I wasn't aware of it.
This line is only said by him in the playthroughs in which Clementine and Jane stole his sister's medicine, and not in those in which they didn't. Arvo being glad that he found the people who robbed him to get his supplies back and also some extra is not something that I would consider shocking.
Well, actually, it's said even if you don't rob them (the only way you can avoid it is if you tell the group to help him, if you do, he starts rambling about needing bandages until his 'friends' appear).
Anyways, the happiness in his tone of voice might be my overanalysation of the matter. He was totally smug about it, though.
He sounds like he is narrating what happened in a language that he is inexperienced more than revealing his evil plan. Out of everything that he said, this is probably what I find the least offensive.
Fair enough.
Would it be bad if he mainly worried about his and his sister's safety over the two men who push him and other random strangers? Besides, I am sure that he said something about our group in the translation, but I cannot remember what it is.
No! Didn't say it is wrong. Just saying that, unlike what some people point out, he wasn't particularly worried about our group's (that is, determinantly, a group of innocent people) safety, like he was in some moral high ground trying to make things right 'as some people make it out to be'.
Again, that "assumption" was the only reasonable thing to believe given what he knew. I feel like you're purposely using this word to present it in a way that Arvo jumped to conclusions.
Not sure if it was clear, but I was sorta justifying his actions there. I'm well aware that he thought that his sister had been manslaughtered (yaaay, new words!) by Clem.
Saying she would come with them is determinant, though. She can also yell her lungs out to call for Kenny and Jane's help. Nonetheless, I coincide in that it was immoral to have shot her, though I still opine that his motivations are often misunderstood.
I was going by my cannon, where I asked to leave and he shot me : /. I'm not sure if I made it clear, but I don't really hold a grudge on Arvo for shooting Clem, I was mainly pissed at him for ambushing an innocent group of people. Hell, if I was able to forgive Lilly for shooting Carley based on baseless accusations, then I'm obviously able to forgive Arvo was well, considering he was probably suffering 3 times more than Lilly and actually witnessed Clem shooting his sister.
Because I think that this discussion has potential, I will ask you to refrain from skipping some of my points. You might be subconsciously tempted to jump over when you feel like I bring a good argument that opposes what you think, and that's human nature—speaking from personal experience. But please don't do so.
This is the first time that we've been in opposite sides of a discussion, so this should be interesting! I will do my best to change your op… moreinion, and I am open to rejecting my current one and picking up yours if you manage to convince me.
All hail the refill of your mobile date.
Arvo and his group ambush you. There's no denying to that. They were a group of bandits, they try to take your stuff even if you don't steal from them.
As @wdfan said below, our group is the one that commenced conflict as soon as Jane took Arvo's gun, threatened to kill him while pinning him over a handrail, and determinantly robbed him of invaluable medicine that his sister needed. Jane herself is ashamed shortly after of her deplorable behavior, comparing herself to a bandit. Given, taking his gun was a safety precaution for us, but it left him defenseless for miles. It's not reasonable to condemn them for coming back and demanding us to give them … [view original content]
Comments
season 3 leaked footage of bloop's game
1) How do you know it was intentional? If he wanted to kill Clementine, he would've KILLED Clementine. I doubt he has such a poor shot that he would hit her in a not-so-fatal-area, ESPECIALLY at such a close range.
2) Did she have a gun? Nope. And also, she may not be physically sick. There are some diseases and illnesses that don't take on such a great or obvious physical form (man, I'm REALLY starting to go all theorist with that statement XD )
3) Good point; but that was kinda meant as a light-hearted 'don't call him stupid'. LOL
Oh crap, I've been exposed!
Lol, that's how a lot of people feel XD
it's over folks, game's cancelled because of this leak
1) Clementine did tell Kenneth to stop several times, but even then he wouldn't listen.
2) Cuz I can post 2 XP
3) Once again, they had baby formula (if I remember a discussion, once again, that happened) - and why would they take baby supplies, anyways, when they have no use for them?
4) I know it doesn't, but I'm only arguing why Arvo did shoot her. It's not any less wrong but it is still SLIGHTLY justified.
(Yeah, exactly! There are a couple of people on here who are getting a wee bit too into it, but yeah, I enjoy the competitiveness of debating ^_^)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
He does stop in the cabin if you tell him to stop, although he can say stuff like "What? You lost your taste for this sorta thing?"
Well, I dunno what to say here. I'll just say Mac 'n' Cheese. Yum.
Maybe they wanted AJ's diapers for Arvo. (Okay, I'm getting into "bad joke" territory now XD)
For many people, just the fact of him shooting Clem is enough justification to hate him.
(I'm not a competitive guy since I'm a really sensitive person and I get "mad" easily, but I love a good respectful conversation without any personal jokes/insults or burns.
)
Jane takes his gun no matter what and basically threatens to kill him if she ever sees him again. That could have been all the meds he had and his group might have really needed it. And yeah the plan wasn't very well thought out at all and very suicidal indeed.
I'm sorry, I'll never leak again ;_;
1) He doesn't stop, and if I remember correctly, he only stops because you tried to stop him but he ends up hitting you while you were trying to stop him. (I'm sounding really redundant right now...)
2) I actually ate some mac n cheese for breakfast and lunch today! ^(030)^
3) Great, now you just put a VERY unwanted image in my brain XD
4) Yeah, I agree, but I am one of the few who didn't really hate him for shooting her because I actually understood why he did and DID NOT appreciated Kenneth abusing him. There are a few people who think along the same lines as me, of course.
Because he had that pause before his regret face. Watch the scene for yourself. Also, he shot right above her heart. He could be a bad shot, that's why he's seen not holding a gun with the rest of the Russians.
Who had a gun? When Arvo is asked what kind of illness his sister back when he first meet him, he says stutters and says he needs to keep it safe. So that shows he could've been lying.
Okay then, I know the my post make me look sarcastic, but I'm not.
WHAT I HAVE DONE?!
And I'm glad you brought the 'gun excuse' into the table. It leads me to the second part of my reasoning to why I think they're definitely bandits.
If Arvo's group needed that gun so bad, then why didn't they just ask for it? Arvo was sent back home, unharmed and with all his meds. They had 0 reasons to believe that this group wouldn't colaborate. Instead, they chose to take a violent and agressive appraoch and ask for all their meds, a typical approach among bandits.
Even in the scenario where Jane robs Arvo, any normal and decent group of people would ask for only the meds and not the whole supplies and guns the group had.
This leads me to believe that Arvo's group was indeed a group of bandits.
That's determinant, he hits Clem unintentionally, and he stops when he realizes he's hit her.
I'm on a diet so I can't have any of that.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
What would've been your reaction if Clem actually died because of him? Just curious now. XD
take responsibility!!
1) I have watched the scene... MANY times... I think anyone would hesitate before reacting if you shot someone. The same hesitation was seen in Lilly's face in Season 1 when she shot Carley/Doug (determinant). Even though Lilly wanted to shoot Carley, there was still that "Oh shit" face. And the reason Arvo didn't have a gun; To recap when Arvo was confronted by Jane and Clementine - Jane took his gun from him, no matter if you agreed to rob him or not. That's why he is without a weapon.
2) Indeed, but why would he be lying about medications? And Natasha wasn't the one with a gun, neither was Arvo; that's what I meant by that.
3) No worries.
Because the damage had already been done by then. It wasn't about just smoothing things over with the group. It was about revenge. They left the kid without a gun, which puts his safety at even more risk. Think about if someone had robbed Clementine and threatened to kill her if they saw her again. A lot of players would be furious and want to take revenge on whoever done this if they could.
1) Yeah, I just looked it up. I think I remembered that specifically because when I was playing the game on my phone I tried to defend Arvo as much as possible and ended up having Clementine get hit.
2) WHYYYYY? ;A;
3) ^3^
4) I actually thought about that the first time I watched a playthrough on YouTube - I DEFINITELY would've cried a lot and I would've been mad at Arvo. My feeling when she got shot was "Oh my gosh, she got shot! Why did he do that?!" - if she actually died, then I think my thought process would've been more like - "How -bleeping- dare he! Why would he do such a thing!?" And I would've hated him JUST for that specific thing, only. Then I would've tried to reason with myself why he would do it. Then I would squander in self-pity (kudos if you get the reference).
Exactly, Arvo wanted to shoot Clem, whether he regretted or not doesn't matter, it shouldn't excuse from any hate.
To give himself pity so Clem wouldn't take the medicine. I still don't get the gun part though. You mean when Jane and Clem meet him or when he tries to steal Clem's stuff?
While Arvo doesn't deserve the hatred he gets, I still stand by what I have said before.
"I am not neurologically wired to think that it's okay to shoot Clementine."
1) How do you know he WANTED to shoot her? Like Lilly did, if he wanted to shoot her then he would've done it right away instead of waiting. It would've been stupid of him to want to shoot her and then be like, "Oh, wait, I should maybe sit here with my gun pointed at her until derp happens, THEN I shoot her" (I'm sorry, I've been replying to comments almost non-stop since I got home from work about a hour ago - I get weird when my brain is on overdrive).
2)No, Jane takes the gun so then he doesn't shoot Clementine and then she doesn't return it, so he is without a weapon COMPLETELY. He posed no threat in the first place, only his colleagues did. And why make Clementine pity him? There was no evidence that he or his group members were drug addicts whatsoever. Also, this was the Zombie Apocalypse - I doubt you would want to lose so many PRECIOUS resources when they could and are limited.
This is the first time that we've been in opposite sides of a discussion, so this should be interesting! I will do my best to change your opinion, and I am open to rejecting my current one and picking up yours if you manage to convince me.
All hail the refill of your mobile date.
As @wdfan said below, our group is the one that commenced conflict as soon as Jane took Arvo's gun, threatened to kill him while pinning him over a handrail, and determinantly robbed him of invaluable medicine that his sister needed. Jane herself is ashamed shortly after of her deplorable behavior, comparing herself to a bandit. Given, taking his gun was a safety precaution for us, but it left him defenseless for miles. It's not reasonable to condemn them for coming back and demanding us to give them our supplies.
Lots of these people support this theory because of the translation of the Russian dialogue, which I don't have in my power to share as evidence because the video was deleted by the author. Basically—and you will have to take my word—it showed that Arvo was against going on with the ambush starting when Buricko and Vitali made jokes, and he became desperate for everyone to lay of off our group once he noticed that we had a newborn with us. Natasha is also reluctant and fears for her life, while the man with the assault rifle says that he doesn't care about their opinion, and the man with the shotgun threatens to kill Kenny.
This is a very relevant base, not a very little one.
This line is only said by him in the playthroughs in which Clementine and Jane stole his sister's medicine, and not in those in which they didn't. Arvo being glad that he found the people who robbed him to get his supplies back and also some extra is not something that I would consider shocking.
He sounds like he is narrating what happened in a language that he is inexperienced more than revealing his evil plan. Out of everything that he said, this is probably what I find the least offensive.
Would it be bad if he mainly worried about his and his sister's safety over the two men who push him and other random strangers? Besides, I am sure that he said something about our group in the translation, but I cannot remember what it is.
Agreed a hundred percent.
Again, that "assumption" was the only reasonable thing to believe given what he knew. I feel like you're purposely using this word to present it in a way that Arvo jumped to conclusions.
I still think he acted wrongly when shooting Clem, of course. She had lowered her gun and had agreed to come with them and he still shot her.
Saying she would come with them is determinant, though. She can also yell her lungs out to call for Kenny and Jane's help. Nonetheless, I coincide in that it was immoral to have shot her, though I still opine that his motivations are often misunderstood.
Perfectly!
Because I think that this discussion has potential, I will ask you to refrain from skipping some of my points. You might be subconsciously tempted to jump over when you feel like I bring a good argument that opposes what you think, and that's human nature—speaking from personal experience. But please don't do so.
Reference is from Night at the Museum? :P
1) Your heart is more near the center. Shoulder wounds, realistically, are a lot more deadly than what's portrayed in movies and Tv shows, but yeah, Clementine was also a child so there was a lot more of a chance of her actually dying compared to if she were an adult. If she were an adult that got shot in the shoulder, she would be a lot more stronger and less likely to faint or pass out.
Because of his death glares. The only he didn't shoot was because Mike and Bonnie were friends with her. Eventually he said screw it and shot her.
Why would you a return a gun to a dangerous stranger? He seemed pretty grateful that his medicine wasn't stolen and he does say take anything but the medicine so he shouldn't care about the gun.
Put yer mind at ease...
HOW DARES YOU! <(e-e )
Apologies, but maybe DON'T spam that link?
Yup, that is VERY understandable.
Yes, but if you're distracted in that moment you could've think she got shot in her heart, or very near to it. I remember this YouTuber playing it who literally ripped his shirt off out of rage and sorrow. XD
I personally don't hate him to the point where I want him dead but I can understand why others do. The main reason: for shooting Clementine.
Lets say someone you love/care about A LOT gets shot. In that moment you won't think about anything else. They hurt someone you care about so the first instinct is to want them dead. Some people have this feeling stronger than others, to the point where it's impossible to reason with them. I mean, at least the hate is some what justified. Arvo shooting Clementine is better than any other reason to hate him. (Especially when she even lowers her gun.) So I find it a waste of time (all due respect to them) arguing with them about it.
How do you know that? Where is that in the game? Oh, and I give death glares all the time to people, but that doesn't mean I want to do insert scenario here to them because they did insert other scenario here to insert name here.
2)I never said Jane would/should return it, I only said that she is the one who took the gun and, in turn, he didn't have the gun at the confrontation. You said that he might not have had a gun at the confrontation because he was a bad shot, I explained why he didn't have his gun with him at the confrontation - not because he was a bad shot, but because his gun was taken from him by Jane and it wasn't returned to him (not saying it should be/would be) so he was left without a weapon.
3) OH! I also remembered, it is a determinant in this situation, but Arvo DID say that his friends were telling him to tell her (Clementine) for she and her friends to put down their weapons to take their things. Then (determinant of speech) he also says that he wished he could've met Clementine differently, since she was kind and that that wasn't common. (Proof --
) he can also be heard trying to tell them not to shoot. This is proof that he (determinant of actions and speech) doesn't want any bloodshed. Chances are that he just used his friends as backup.
I'm gonna look that up on YouTube!! XDDD
Found it!
He looked pretty pissed off when Clem was saved by Jane when she was trying to save Luke.
But you did say that Jane taking it is good enough reason to hunt them down.
Why is it a good thing for them to say we gonna take your stuff? Also the reason he's telling them to stop is because he doesn't want to die. He doesn't care about bloodshed.
Look, it's obvious that we're not gonna agree on things and this will go on all night if we let it. So in short, him shooting Clem is more than enough reason for me to hate him.
Technically, Kenny had the keys and Arvo suggested that Mike wire it(not so different?
) when Clementine approached them.
That is curious! I will put what you said in Arvo's perspective.
Arvo obviously cares about his sister to a high degree, and as far as he knows, she was shot dead. From that moment he didn't think about anything else. Clementine hurt Natasha and he wants her dead for it. The hate is somewhat justified, isn't it?
I know you were not asking for comments like this, but I thought that this was the perfect chance to use a little of a change of view.
I'm glad you're like this, honestly. I feel like at times, people on these forums refrain to admit that they are wrong because they fear their pride might be damaged. I see it in a total different way. Admitting a mistake takes way more courage than keeping on rambling about something that has already been proven wrong. If people never changed their minds and didn't admit their mistakes/misunderstandings, then no-one would ever be able to improve.
They refilled it at 00:04am. They were 4 minutes late!!! That's it, I'm suing them.
Thing is, if they're attacking for the little revolver, surely they could've tried to ask for it before they started threathening them. And if the problem here was really only the gun, they why did they ask for all their supplies?
Same thing applies if Clem and Jane do steal the meds. In that scenario they are way more justified for pointing guns at the group and demand what was theirs and even resort to violence if the group refused to pay them back in some way, but they still didn't necessarily need to demand all the group had, it wasn't their only option.
Jane threatening Arvo was understandable and was just a warning. She didn't really harm him in any way and if the group attacks because of some words they really overreacted.
OK. I wasn't aware of that. It's good to know, though. I still hold Arvo and Natasha (I always prefered the name Maud instead of the generic Russian name 'Natasha') accountable and partially to blame here.
I'm going to use a comparison here (this is a bit of an exageration, but it's the best I could find to describe my feelings on this situation).
During the holocaust, hundreds of German soldiers commited war dispicable and unhuman war crimes against inocent people. They were acting under the orders of their tyranicall leaders, yet they are still held accountable for their terrible actions.
Now, Arvo and Natasha weren't obviously planning on commiting genocide, but they were still partaking in the plan against Clem's group.
Still, that makes Arvo's actions way more justifiable indeed. Obviously, Arvo and Natasha could've tried to go against Vitali and Buriko but I understand why they wouldn't take the chance of going against their leaders only to help a group of unknown people.
Well, I wasn't aware of it.
Well, actually, it's said even if you don't rob them (the only way you can avoid it is if you tell the group to help him, if you do, he starts rambling about needing bandages until his 'friends' appear).
Anyways, the happiness in his tone of voice might be my overanalysation of the matter. He was totally smug about it, though.
Fair enough.
No! Didn't say it is wrong. Just saying that, unlike what some people point out, he wasn't particularly worried about our group's (that is, determinantly, a group of innocent people) safety, like he was in some moral high ground trying to make things right 'as some people make it out to be'.
Not sure if it was clear, but I was sorta justifying his actions there. I'm well aware that he thought that his sister had been manslaughtered (yaaay, new words!) by Clem.
I was going by my cannon, where I asked to leave and he shot me : /. I'm not sure if I made it clear, but I don't really hold a grudge on Arvo for shooting Clem, I was mainly pissed at him for ambushing an innocent group of people. Hell, if I was able to forgive Lilly for shooting Carley based on baseless accusations, then I'm obviously able to forgive Arvo was well, considering he was probably suffering 3 times more than Lilly and actually witnessed Clem shooting his sister.
I tried to!