We don't even know who's idea it was to ambush the group though and if Arvo is so afraid of losing supplies and losing his revolver, why did he go alone and why did he hide all of the medicine in some random garbage can in a civil war site where just anybody can go and loot the place? It makes no sense.
If he hadn't told them what really happened, it's probable that he would have been frowned upon and punished by his group because of losing … morea revolver and determinantly a bag full of medicine. Why would he hide the truth before even knowing that Buricko and Vitali would want to ambush our group?
As I stated in my previous comment Arvo would have came back to his group empty handed anyways, assuming the purpose of him coming to the civil war site was to hide his supplies in a trash can. Which is a bit suspicious imo. I have a little theory that those supplies are personally his and his group (excluding his Sister) don't know about it. Maybe Arvo told a complete lie to his group? I don't know. But something doesn't make sense.
True, but I think anyone would've told their group "I am lucky I have these because someone tried to rob me" or "I don't have them cuz someo… morene robbed me" (before anyone can quote me on this, I am generalizing and theorizing about what could've been said and this is not what actually happened).
As I stated in my previous comment Arvo would have came back to his group empty handed anyways, assuming the purpose of him coming to the ci… morevil war site was to hide his supplies in a trash can. Which is a bit suspicious imo. I have a little theory that those supplies are personally his and his group (excluding his Sister) don't know about it. Maybe Arvo told a complete lie to his group? I don't know. But something doesn't make sense.
The game also did not have to explicitly say in flashing lights
THE RUSSIANS WERE GONNA GO BACK TO THE OBSERVATION DECK!!!
Dude, Arvo could've been hiding the medications there as a form of storage. Listen, this general topic about the medications can easily be debated for DAYS without closure, because nobody knows what Arvo's real intentions were with the medications.
I am being serious. Dude, what else could that expression have been (sadness, possibly)? And (determinant) if you were trying to save Larry you hear Lee yell, "Kenny? WHAT THE FUCK??!!" - I, personally, would not want to be in the same room with a strong guy after murdering someone's father. And Lilly was already in a rage when Kenneth was saying he could be dead.
Yeah, well, keep in mind there is a HUGE difference between fiction and reality. We will NEVER know what a live hostage situation would be like until we experience it. (And also, this is The Walking Dead - being a hostage often works a lot more differently)
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I want to say that first and foremost. I just can't comprehend why people feel the need to defend Arvo as if he's just a victim. Like as if to say, "Hey, he shot an 11 year old girl, and that was his bad. He did a bad thing, but we should look beyond that." I don't think so. Before Arvo shot Clementine, he still brought his hostile group toward ours whether or not he was robbed. That was his decision, and that decision lead to the fallout. I don't think all of us are blaming Arvo for everything, but rather we're saying he started this. His decisions brought on consequences, and he suffered as a result. However, I don't see him as a character one should sympathize with unless you are the type that cannot help but to feel for those in need. I don't even think it's fair to push some of the blame on Kenny either because it'll just circle back to the source of it - Arvo brought his group to ours.
I'm not defending Arvo like that - I'll be honest with you (as I have with everyone else), I still haven't quite forgiven Arvo for shooting Clementine. That (somewhat) has an explanation, but his actions were his own.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I want to say that first and foremost. I just can't comprehend why people feel the need to defend Arvo… more as if he's just a victim. Like as if to say, "Hey, he shot an 11 year old girl, and that was his bad. He did a bad thing, but we should look beyond that." I don't think so. Before Arvo shot Clementine, he still brought his hostile group toward ours whether or not he was robbed. That was his decision, and that decision lead to the fallout. I don't think all of us are blaming Arvo for everything, but rather we're saying he started this. His decisions brought on consequences, and he suffered as a result. However, I don't see him as a character one should sympathize with unless you are the type that cannot help but to feel for those in need. I don't even think it's fair to push some of the blame on Kenny either because it'll just circle back to the source of it - Arvo brought his group to ours.
Remember that Jane attacked him first. If she hadn't threatened to take his medicine, even disregarding his sister, or insist on threatening him afterwards, he wouldn't have a legitimate reason to want to come after the group.
Can't blame him for [over]reacting to what she did when really she could have just NOT jump him and stick him up when he was really just minding his own business.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I want to say that first and foremost. I just can't comprehend why people feel the need to defend Arvo… more as if he's just a victim. Like as if to say, "Hey, he shot an 11 year old girl, and that was his bad. He did a bad thing, but we should look beyond that." I don't think so. Before Arvo shot Clementine, he still brought his hostile group toward ours whether or not he was robbed. That was his decision, and that decision lead to the fallout. I don't think all of us are blaming Arvo for everything, but rather we're saying he started this. His decisions brought on consequences, and he suffered as a result. However, I don't see him as a character one should sympathize with unless you are the type that cannot help but to feel for those in need. I don't even think it's fair to push some of the blame on Kenny either because it'll just circle back to the source of it - Arvo brought his group to ours.
you have to be a heartless son of the bitch to do something like that!
Being heartless would involve either beating Kenny to death while his guard is down(possibly with Clementine witnessing it) or torching the house with the other three still inside or taking everything that isn't nailed down without taking Arvo along, since Kenny's abuse towards him was a sign that he was getting way too violent. Not taking Clementine or the baby can either be a dickmove or a crucial oversight--I prefer both.
Misguided by pity and sympathy would be a more appropriate term to describe them, with Bonnie moving on as wel to find another place where she can belong.
the real question here is: why are you defending him so much? are you in love with him or what? he isn't even an interesting character! that… more little sht doesnt deserve to live after what he did, no matter what you do, he will always let his group know about clementine's group, even if you were nice to him and let him take his bag of medicines he and his group will try to kill you anyway, they are fcking bandits, clementine's group probably weren't the first group to encounter them! its true that clem killed his sister, but she was already dead! she was a walker! and everyone were in the middle of a fcking shootout! What would you have done if you were in clem's position?? let the walker kill you? die for nothing? i hope the walkers kill him slowly and tear him apart, to bonnie and mike too! What the fck was bonnie thinking when she thought that send clem (adding more weight to the ice) to grab luke's hand was a good idea?? If they would have j… [view original content]
ohhh! really! they could've saved jane or the baby!
I can understand saving the baby, but why save Jane? She's the reason the Russian came after them in the first place, neither of them have any deep-rooted love for her, and is perfectly capable of taking care of herself.
Another small issue is that taking AJ would require them to have the truck ready to go should he start and thus alert Kenny, Jane, and/or Clementine. And even then, it could easily be seen by either one of those two as them kidnapping the baby, which could cause them to track them down.
the girl who helped them and saved them from carver but NOOOO.....! they decided to save that little shit instead!
Okay, I know you probably didn't experiment with all of the choices, but--why not both?
If Clementine asks to go with them, Mike agrees, ignorant of Arvo's anxious head-shaking in disagreement, on the precautionary condition that he still take the gun. When she does clumsily give it to him, he calmly reassures her that its fine, just--before being cut off by Arvo shooting her. This indicates that at least Mike would've been happy to take her along (though it could raise the question of why didn't he have Bonnie go break the news to her just ahead of time) but Arvo would've been too paranoid/spiteful/relunctant to allow her to come with.
Another thing to take into consideration is her connection to Kenny himself: Clementine and Kenny go way back--they didn't have too much of a direct bond--but they go way back! It's safe to assume that Kenny usually stopping his rampages when she directly intervenes means that he's unlikely to intentionally try to hurt her. And whereas she had no significant (or friendly really) connection to Carver(the true source of their fears and precautions whom she also didn't like), her connection with Kenny could easily bite them in the ass should she decide to alert him(which is determinate) or if he decides to come after them. The latter would be doubly bad if they decided to take the baby along as well.
I was defending Ben in Season 1 as well! he made a big mistake, he got people killed and the group lost the motor inn..... but his intention… mores were good, he thought he was protecting them..... but still.... everyone hated him and wanted him abused and were wishing his death! THAT IS AN UNDESERVING HATE!
"Bonnie sent her out because Clementine was the lightest" seriously! terrible idea and it doesn't even make sense! just a poor excuse to get rid of luke
"They were afraid of Kenny because he was getting reckless and violent for no reason"
Is that a good excuse to let a poor innocent baby without food?? let a baby starve to death!?? and what about jane, kenny and clem? they would've die too! and yes...... FYI they took everything. Clementine: "that's everything we have"
"they were more than willing to have Clementine come along but Arvo prevented that"
ohhh! really! they could've saved jane or the baby! or clementine! the girl who h… [view original content]
My only problem with Arvo is the fact that he and his buddies are in this game in the first place. If there ever was something in a Telltale game that made me facepalm hard enough to cause a nosebleed, it was the encounter with these so-called "Russians".
For a second I thought they actually hired Rhianna Pratchett to write this episode, or some scribbler alike who has a thing for shoving evil Russkie communists anywhere and everywhere. Never would've expected TTG to be into that shit. I don't know why they decided to do Russians if they only had one Russian guy and everybody else are just plain horrible at imitating the language. And that Buricko guy was truly something, too. Since when has complete misrepresentation of other cultures become a Telltale thing? The whole ending section of episode 4 had me stuck in a permanent cringe.
Yes, I know this thread is hardly a place to rant about stuff like that, but I just saw it and felt the need of sorts to get that off my chest.
...
I'll see myself out.
My only problem with Arvo is the fact that he and his buddies are in this game in the first place.
I would'nt have minded just having Arvo and Natasha, personally. Granted, Buricko and Vitali do help provide a few funny moments.
For a second I thought they actually hired Rhianna Pratchett to write this episode, or some scribbler alike who has a thing for shoving evil Russkie communists anywhere and everywhere.
Don't know who that is, so moving on--I'm pretty sure they weren't really communists. That was just Kenny being horribly racist, but darkly hilarious at the same time.
My only problem with Arvo is the fact that he and his buddies are in this game in the first place. If there ever was something in a Telltale… more game that made me facepalm hard enough to cause a nosebleed, it was the encounter with these so-called "Russians".
For a second I thought they actually hired Rhianna Pratchett to write this episode, or some scribbler alike who has a thing for shoving evil Russkie communists anywhere and everywhere. Never would've expected TTG to be into that shit. I don't know why they decided to do Russians if they only had one Russian guy and everybody else are just plain horrible at imitating the language. And that Buricko guy was truly something, too. Since when has complete misrepresentation of other cultures become a Telltale thing? The whole ending section of episode 4 had me stuck in a permanent cringe.
Yes, I know this thread is hardly a place to rant about stuff like that, but I just saw it and felt the need of sorts to get that off my chest.
...
I'll see myself out.
Forgive me, but judging by what you're saying, you must be Russian or part-Russian if you say that TellTale is getting the Russian culture and language wrong?
I don't think that cultural accuracy even really matters in a Zombie RPG - nobody (unless you're a perfectionist, have OCD or are somehow offended by your own culture being misrepresented) even really watches for that stuff, too much.
And don't call them communists, because A) That sounds ALMOST racist and There is no evidence that they actually were communists.
My only problem with Arvo is the fact that he and his buddies are in this game in the first place. If there ever was something in a Telltale… more game that made me facepalm hard enough to cause a nosebleed, it was the encounter with these so-called "Russians".
For a second I thought they actually hired Rhianna Pratchett to write this episode, or some scribbler alike who has a thing for shoving evil Russkie communists anywhere and everywhere. Never would've expected TTG to be into that shit. I don't know why they decided to do Russians if they only had one Russian guy and everybody else are just plain horrible at imitating the language. And that Buricko guy was truly something, too. Since when has complete misrepresentation of other cultures become a Telltale thing? The whole ending section of episode 4 had me stuck in a permanent cringe.
Yes, I know this thread is hardly a place to rant about stuff like that, but I just saw it and felt the need of sorts to get that off my chest.
...
I'll see myself out.
so you dont think abandoning clementine, kenny, jane and the baby without food is heartless..... but killing carver (the antagonist, the enemy) is?? do you hate kenny for killing carver? he did the right thing! imagine what would've happened if he would've returned to get revenge, he is more than capable of killing everybody! kenny was the only one with balls to do it! noone else wanted to get their hands dirty! it was necessary!
you have to be a heartless son of the bitch to do something like that!
Being heartless would involve either beating Kenny to death w… morehile his guard is down(possibly with Clementine witnessing it) or torching the house with the other three still inside or taking everything that isn't nailed down without taking Arvo along, since Kenny's abuse towards him was a sign that he was getting way too violent. Not taking Clementine or the baby can either be a dickmove or a crucial oversight--I prefer both.
Misguided by pity and sympathy would be a more appropriate term to describe them, with Bonnie moving on as wel to find another place where she can belong.
Oh HECK No, F@(KCarver!!! He was an insufferable control freak and smug psychopath and clearly proud of it!
Also, how did you come to that conclusion when I said MAB killing Kenny would be a bit heartless? Okay, maybe not in Arvo's case, but that would basically be the crowbar all over again except its the 'villain' doing the swinging this time.
Now, as I said, them potentially leaving all four without most of the supplies would've been a serious dick move on their part but I sincerely doubt that was the exact plan at the time given how sullen they seem about Clementine seeing them like that. Not to mention that neither of them aren't assholes or sociopaths.
so you dont think abandoning clementine, kenny, jane and the baby without food is heartless..... but killing carver (the antagonist, the ene… moremy) is?? do you hate kenny for killing carver? he did the right thing! imagine what would've happened if he would've returned to get revenge, he is more than capable of killing everybody! kenny was the only one with balls to do it! noone else wanted to get their hands dirty! it was necessary!
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I want to say that first and foremost.
Incorrect! Being entitled to your opinion is a choice.
If you want to have the most sensible opinion at all times, you must be open to the posibility of dropping your current beliefs and adopting those that you deem make more sense. There is no shame in that. It requires great strength to admit that we are people who make mistakes.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I want to say that first and foremost. I just can't comprehend why people feel the need to defend Arvo… more as if he's just a victim. Like as if to say, "Hey, he shot an 11 year old girl, and that was his bad. He did a bad thing, but we should look beyond that." I don't think so. Before Arvo shot Clementine, he still brought his hostile group toward ours whether or not he was robbed. That was his decision, and that decision lead to the fallout. I don't think all of us are blaming Arvo for everything, but rather we're saying he started this. His decisions brought on consequences, and he suffered as a result. However, I don't see him as a character one should sympathize with unless you are the type that cannot help but to feel for those in need. I don't even think it's fair to push some of the blame on Kenny either because it'll just circle back to the source of it - Arvo brought his group to ours.
Well i'd argue that point. Just because he wasn't shown trying to kill the group, he still played a part in the ambush by the Russians. He also says "you'll regret this" or words similar if you steal his medicine. To me Arvo was always considered a threat and i never liked or trusted him.
He didn't try to kill them at all. He tried to steal from them - the guns were just there to scare them into it (this is speculation, mind you)
Shooting Clementine is the only thing I see that people have a right to be pissed about.
He didn't try to kill them at all. He tried to steal from them - the guns were just there to scare them into it (this is speculation, mind you)
Shooting Clementine is the only thing I see that people have a right to be pissed about.
Heh, you got me. Well, yes, I am. And you may consider yourself lucky you aren't, because if you were, you would cringe at the VA just as I did, for it was such a cruel joke on poor ol' Russian language. A user called @Lingvort created a thread a while ago where he goes all over this topic, I suggest you take a look, as it's more than enough to get the idea of what I'm talking about.
I don't think that cultural accuracy even really matters in a Zombie RPG - nobody (unless you're a perfectionist, have OCD or are somehow offended by your own culture being misrepresented) even really watches for that stuff, too much.
Nah, I'm not offended in the slightest. More like annoyed a little, that's all. And nonono, there is a minimum level of accuracy that divides convincing and ridiculous, and I highly doubt Telltale were aiming to humour people. But that's what one might think, seeing as how cheap and laughable voice acting was. Throw in funny character design and names for good measure. In my 19 years of living in Russia I've never met a guy named Arvo.
And don't call them communists, because A) That sounds ALMOST racist and There is no evidence that they actually were communists.
Now, I'm pretty sure I can't technically be racist towards my own ethnicity, so let's just call it self-irony and leave it at that. In fact, with that statement I was merely making fun of the way Russians are often portrayed in video games and general overabuse of the concept of Russian villains. No need to take it so literally. Seriously though, we've seen plenty of games and movies with Russians as bad guys as is, a large number of those was carried out in an extremely stereotypical manner and Telltale wasn't an exception. Enough is enough, there are other variants. More logical, too. Why are these guys in America and how come they don't speak a word of English, anyway?
Forgive me, but judging by what you're saying, you must be Russian or part-Russian if you say that TellTale is getting the Russian culture a… morend language wrong?
I don't think that cultural accuracy even really matters in a Zombie RPG - nobody (unless you're a perfectionist, have OCD or are somehow offended by your own culture being misrepresented) even really watches for that stuff, too much.
And don't call them communists, because A) That sounds ALMOST racist and There is no evidence that they actually were communists.
He also says "you'll regret this" or words similar if you steal his medicine.
Note that he said that to Jane: as dumb as Arvo proved himself to be at times, he's seems smart enough to recognize a threat when he sees one and know who deserves to be punished for their misdeeds--and Jane was the one who jumped him, stuck him up with his own gun, threatened to take his sister's medicine away from him, and tried(and determinately succeeds) to convince Clementine to go along with it. While him choosing to hold up the entire group was a serious overreaction on his part, he's 'just' enough to acknowledge Clementine's "innocence" and seeks out Jane when he remembers her. It just so happened that Jane slipped away hours beforehand, avoiding yet another consequence of her actions and letting someone else suffer for them.
Well i'd argue that point. Just because he wasn't shown trying to kill the group, he still played a part in the ambush by the Russians. He a… morelso says "you'll regret this" or words similar if you steal his medicine. To me Arvo was always considered a threat and i never liked or trusted him.
Okay, so Arvo trying to rob the group isn't a justified reason to be pissed?
Well, it is, but at least note that robbing the group was actually Buricko's idea. While Arvo and Natasha's plans for punishing the group are never really revealed, Arvo just follows Buricko's orders with reluctance, even admitting that he wishes it didn't have to be that way if you were nice to him beforehand.
He didn't try to kill them at all. He tried to steal from them
Shooting Clementine is the only thing I see that people have a right to be pissed about.
Okay, so Arvo trying to rob the group isn't a justified reason to be pissed?
Well, it is, but at least note that robbing the group was actually Buricko's idea
It doesn't matter who's idea it was, he still played a hand in it, even if you robbed Arvo or not. And besides how do you know it was Buricko's idea? I don't recall anywhere in the game explaining who's plan it was to rob the group.
Okay, so Arvo trying to rob the group isn't a justified reason to be pissed?
Well, it is, but at least note that robbing the group w… moreas actually Buricko's idea. While Arvo and Natasha's plans for punishing the group are never really revealed, Arvo just follows Buricko's orders with reluctance, even admitting that he wishes it didn't have to be that way if you were nice to him beforehand.
Even without translations, after the Russians come out of the woods, Buricko starts speaking for a solid 5 seconds glancing between Arvo and the Howe's Ski Cabin Group with Arvo asking him a question and getting an answer. When Clementine asks what he's saying, Arvo explains that he wants her group to lay down their guns so they can take their things.
With translations(of varying accuracy and content), Buricko tells Arvo the same instructions Arvo repeats to Clementine and Arvo asks him what exactly do they have that he wants, to which Buricko responses something along the lines of "Shit, I don't know! Just anything useful, really." Them nutty Russians.
Well, it is, but at least note that robbing the group was actually Buricko's idea
It doesn't matter who's idea it was, he still play… moreed a hand in it, even if you robbed Arvo or not. And besides how do you know it was Buricko's idea? I don't recall anywhere in the game explaining who's plan it was to rob the group.
It just so happened that Jane slipped away hours beforehand, avoiding yet another consequence of her actions and letting someone else suffer for them.
Jane did not know that Arvo's group would come back, though you present it in a way that she consciously allowed Clementine and company to pay the price of her theft. She cannot read the future!
He also says "you'll regret this" or words similar if you steal his medicine.
Note that he said that to Jane: as dumb as Arvo proved… more himself to be at times, he's seems smart enough to recognize a threat when he sees one and know who deserves to be punished for their misdeeds--and Jane was the one who jumped him, stuck him up with his own gun, threatened to take his sister's medicine away from him, and tried(and determinately succeeds) to convince Clementine to go along with it. While him choosing to hold up the entire group was a serious overreaction on his part, he's 'just' enough to acknowledge Clementine's "innocence" and seeks out Jane when he remembers her. It just so happened that Jane slipped away hours beforehand, avoiding yet another consequence of her actions and letting someone else suffer for them.
Meh.
Sorry, got a bit heated towards the end there. Still, she started it but never receives any real repercussions for it, like a few other things. The only real acknowledgement is that Kenny points it when she voices her opinion on what to do about Arvo, to which she responds"Don't try and pin this on me!" ...Which is a frustratingly lame comeback, by the way.
It just so happened that Jane slipped away hours beforehand, avoiding yet another consequence of her actions and letting someone else suffer… more for them.
Jane did not know that Arvo's group would come back, though you present it in a way that she consciously allowed Clementine and company to pay the price of her theft. She cannot read the future!
Meh.
Sorry, got a bit heated towards the end there. Still, she started it but never receives any real repercussions for it, like a few othe… morer things. The only real acknowledgement is that Kenny points it when she voices her opinion on what to do about Arvo, to which she responds"Don't try and pin this on me!" ...Which is a frustratingly lame comeback, by the way.
Oh, I'm terribly sorry! I didn't know! (NOT meaning to sound cynical or sarcastic with this comment!!) (Oh, and BTW - that sunglasses emoji thing was supposed to be a B with a bracket in front of it.... Stupid TTG Forum emojis...)
Arvo is actually a Finnish and Estonian name and is not a plausible Russian name. Just thought I'd throw that fun fact out there (and, in all seriousness, you should've seen my ace when I heard Arvo's name and then the subtitles said he was speaking in Russian - I was just like "Da fuq did TTG do to this kid???") I think the voice acting was pretty good with Arvo, albeit deep for a boy in his later teen years. For Vit and Bur (I call them that cuz I tend to misspell or mispronounce their names) they were somewhat stereotypical with the thick rolls of the R's and the broken English when they speak in said language.
Again, I am SO sorry; I wasn't aware of your ethnicity! And no, you can't be racist towards your own ethnicity (I should know, given my own ethnicity and the jokes I sometimes crack at it). And yeah, I will admit, sometimes the Russian-villain thing can get a little old. If TTG had just portrayed them a wee bit better, then I would've probably taken Vit and Bur a wee bit more seriously (and not laugh at Arvo's name).
Once again, I apologize if I offended you when I challenged you about being Russian or not - if I had known about your ethnicity, I wouldn't have said anything about it to begin with.
Heh, you got me. Well, yes, I am. And you may consider yourself lucky you aren't, because if you were, you would cringe at the VA just as I … moredid, for it was such a cruel joke on poor ol' Russian language. A user called @Lingvort created a thread a while ago where he goes all over this topic, I suggest you take a look, as it's more than enough to get the idea of what I'm talking about.
I don't think that cultural accuracy even really matters in a Zombie RPG - nobody (unless you're a perfectionist, have OCD or are somehow offended by your own culture being misrepresented) even really watches for that stuff, too much.
Nah, I'm not offended in the slightest. More like annoyed a little, that's all. And nonono, there is a minimum level of accuracy that divides convincing and ridiculous, and I highly doubt Telltale were aiming to humour people. But that's what one might think, seeing as how cheap and laughable voice acting was. Throw in… [view original content]
I agree with you, I feel like people hate him because he is "The Enemy" but if he was on our side doing the exact same things, we would be way more sympathetic.
I agree with you, I feel like people hate him because he is "The Enemy" but if he was on our side doing the exact same things, we would be way more sympathetic.
Okay, hold up, no insults please. As I said to WDF - this thread was meant solely for debate and discussion - his opinion and statements are just as valued as everyone else's on here.
And I have that mentality with other games, but mainly with multiplayer (like CoD or Destiny)
Comments
We don't even know who's idea it was to ambush the group though and if Arvo is so afraid of losing supplies and losing his revolver, why did he go alone and why did he hide all of the medicine in some random garbage can in a civil war site where just anybody can go and loot the place? It makes no sense.
As I stated in my previous comment Arvo would have came back to his group empty handed anyways, assuming the purpose of him coming to the civil war site was to hide his supplies in a trash can. Which is a bit suspicious imo. I have a little theory that those supplies are personally his and his group (excluding his Sister) don't know about it. Maybe Arvo told a complete lie to his group? I don't know. But something doesn't make sense.
True that; but I think TTG didn't touch up on that for a reason.
The game also did not have to explicitly say in flashing lights
THE RUSSIANS WERE GONNA GO BACK TO THE OBSERVATION DECK!!!
Dude, Arvo could've been hiding the medications there as a form of storage. Listen, this general topic about the medications can easily be debated for DAYS without closure, because nobody knows what Arvo's real intentions were with the medications.
I am being serious. Dude, what else could that expression have been (sadness, possibly)? And (determinant) if you were trying to save Larry you hear Lee yell, "Kenny? WHAT THE FUCK??!!" - I, personally, would not want to be in the same room with a strong guy after murdering someone's father. And Lilly was already in a rage when Kenneth was saying he could be dead.
Yeah, well, keep in mind there is a HUGE difference between fiction and reality. We will NEVER know what a live hostage situation would be like until we experience it. (And also, this is The Walking Dead - being a hostage often works a lot more differently)
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I want to say that first and foremost. I just can't comprehend why people feel the need to defend Arvo as if he's just a victim. Like as if to say, "Hey, he shot an 11 year old girl, and that was his bad. He did a bad thing, but we should look beyond that." I don't think so. Before Arvo shot Clementine, he still brought his hostile group toward ours whether or not he was robbed. That was his decision, and that decision lead to the fallout. I don't think all of us are blaming Arvo for everything, but rather we're saying he started this. His decisions brought on consequences, and he suffered as a result. However, I don't see him as a character one should sympathize with unless you are the type that cannot help but to feel for those in need. I don't even think it's fair to push some of the blame on Kenny either because it'll just circle back to the source of it - Arvo brought his group to ours.
I'm not defending Arvo like that - I'll be honest with you (as I have with everyone else), I still haven't quite forgiven Arvo for shooting Clementine. That (somewhat) has an explanation, but his actions were his own.
I think that hatred towards Arvo is very justified lol
Remember that Jane attacked him first. If she hadn't threatened to take his medicine, even disregarding his sister, or insist on threatening him afterwards, he wouldn't have a legitimate reason to want to come after the group.
Can't blame him for [over]reacting to what she did when really she could have just NOT jump him and stick him up when he was really just minding his own business.
There was initially no good reason to attack him either.
Shooting Clementine is indeed a justified reason to be cross with Arvo,
Trying to kill the group, on the other hand, is a bit of an exaggeration.
Yes, sir! A blatant blow out of proportions.
Being heartless would involve either beating Kenny to death while his guard is down(possibly with Clementine witnessing it) or torching the house with the other three still inside or taking everything that isn't nailed down without taking Arvo along, since Kenny's abuse towards him was a sign that he was getting way too violent. Not taking Clementine or the baby can either be a dickmove or a crucial oversight--I prefer both.
Misguided by pity and sympathy would be a more appropriate term to describe them, with Bonnie moving on as wel to find another place where she can belong.
He didn't try to kill them at all. He tried to steal from them - the guns were just there to scare them into it (this is speculation, mind you)
Shooting Clementine is the only thing I see that people have a right to be pissed about.
I can understand saving the baby, but why save Jane? She's the reason the Russian came after them in the first place, neither of them have any deep-rooted love for her, and is perfectly capable of taking care of herself.
Another small issue is that taking AJ would require them to have the truck ready to go should he start and thus alert Kenny, Jane, and/or Clementine. And even then, it could easily be seen by either one of those two as them kidnapping the baby, which could cause them to track them down.
Okay, I know you probably didn't experiment with all of the choices, but--why not both?
If Clementine asks to go with them, Mike agrees, ignorant of Arvo's anxious head-shaking in disagreement, on the precautionary condition that he still take the gun. When she does clumsily give it to him, he calmly reassures her that its fine, just--before being cut off by Arvo shooting her. This indicates that at least Mike would've been happy to take her along (though it could raise the question of why didn't he have Bonnie go break the news to her just ahead of time) but Arvo would've been too paranoid/spiteful/relunctant to allow her to come with.
Another thing to take into consideration is her connection to Kenny himself: Clementine and Kenny go way back--they didn't have too much of a direct bond--but they go way back! It's safe to assume that Kenny usually stopping his rampages when she directly intervenes means that he's unlikely to intentionally try to hurt her. And whereas she had no significant (or friendly really) connection to Carver(the true source of their fears and precautions whom she also didn't like), her connection with Kenny could easily bite them in the ass should she decide to alert him(which is determinate) or if he decides to come after them. The latter would be doubly bad if they decided to take the baby along as well.
My only problem with Arvo is the fact that he and his buddies are in this game in the first place. If there ever was something in a Telltale game that made me facepalm hard enough to cause a nosebleed, it was the encounter with these so-called "Russians".
For a second I thought they actually hired Rhianna Pratchett to write this episode, or some scribbler alike who has a thing for shoving evil Russkie communists anywhere and everywhere. Never would've expected TTG to be into that shit. I don't know why they decided to do Russians if they only had one Russian guy and everybody else are just plain horrible at imitating the language. And that Buricko guy was truly something, too. Since when has complete misrepresentation of other cultures become a Telltale thing? The whole ending section of episode 4 had me stuck in a permanent cringe.
Yes, I know this thread is hardly a place to rant about stuff like that, but I just saw it and felt the need of sorts to get that off my chest.
...
I'll see myself out.
I would'nt have minded just having Arvo and Natasha, personally. Granted, Buricko and Vitali do help provide a few funny moments.
Don't know who that is, so moving on--I'm pretty sure they weren't really communists. That was just Kenny being horribly racist, but darkly hilarious at the same time.
Forgive me, but judging by what you're saying, you must be Russian or part-Russian if you say that TellTale is getting the Russian culture and language wrong?
I don't think that cultural accuracy even really matters in a Zombie RPG - nobody (unless you're a perfectionist, have OCD or are somehow offended by your own culture being misrepresented) even really watches for that stuff, too much.
And don't call them communists, because A) That sounds ALMOST racist and
There is no evidence that they actually were communists.
so you dont think abandoning clementine, kenny, jane and the baby without food is heartless..... but killing carver (the antagonist, the enemy) is?? do you hate kenny for killing carver? he did the right thing! imagine what would've happened if he would've returned to get revenge, he is more than capable of killing everybody! kenny was the only one with balls to do it! noone else wanted to get their hands dirty! it was necessary!
Oh HECK No, F@(K Carver!!! He was an insufferable control freak and smug psychopath and clearly proud of it!
Also, how did you come to that conclusion when I said MAB killing Kenny would be a bit heartless? Okay, maybe not in Arvo's case, but that would basically be the crowbar all over again except its the 'villain' doing the swinging this time.
Now, as I said, them potentially leaving all four without most of the supplies would've been a serious dick move on their part but I sincerely doubt that was the exact plan at the time given how sullen they seem about Clementine seeing them like that. Not to mention that neither of them aren't assholes or sociopaths.
Incorrect! Being entitled to your opinion is a choice.
If you want to have the most sensible opinion at all times, you must be open to the posibility of dropping your current beliefs and adopting those that you deem make more sense. There is no shame in that. It requires great strength to admit that we are people who make mistakes.
Well i'd argue that point. Just because he wasn't shown trying to kill the group, he still played a part in the ambush by the Russians. He also says "you'll regret this" or words similar if you steal his medicine. To me Arvo was always considered a threat and i never liked or trusted him.
Okay, so Arvo trying to rob the group isn't a justified reason to be pissed?
Heh, you got me. Well, yes, I am. And you may consider yourself lucky you aren't, because if you were, you would cringe at the VA just as I did, for it was such a cruel joke on poor ol' Russian language. A user called @Lingvort created a thread a while ago where he goes all over this topic, I suggest you take a look, as it's more than enough to get the idea of what I'm talking about.
Nah, I'm not offended in the slightest. More like annoyed a little, that's all. And nonono, there is a minimum level of accuracy that divides convincing and ridiculous, and I highly doubt Telltale were aiming to humour people. But that's what one might think, seeing as how cheap and laughable voice acting was. Throw in funny character design and names for good measure. In my 19 years of living in Russia I've never met a guy named Arvo.
Now, I'm pretty sure I can't technically be racist towards my own ethnicity, so let's just call it self-irony and leave it at that. In fact, with that statement I was merely making fun of the way Russians are often portrayed in video games and general overabuse of the concept of Russian villains. No need to take it so literally. Seriously though, we've seen plenty of games and movies with Russians as bad guys as is, a large number of those was carried out in an extremely stereotypical manner and Telltale wasn't an exception. Enough is enough, there are other variants. More logical, too. Why are these guys in America and how come they don't speak a word of English, anyway?
Note that he said that to Jane: as dumb as Arvo proved himself to be at times, he's seems smart enough to recognize a threat when he sees one and know who deserves to be punished for their misdeeds--and Jane was the one who jumped him, stuck him up with his own gun, threatened to take his sister's medicine away from him, and tried(and determinately succeeds) to convince Clementine to go along with it. While him choosing to hold up the entire group was a serious overreaction on his part, he's 'just' enough to acknowledge Clementine's "innocence" and seeks out Jane when he remembers her. It just so happened that Jane slipped away hours beforehand, avoiding yet another consequence of her actions and letting someone else suffer for them.
Well, it is, but at least note that robbing the group was actually Buricko's idea. While Arvo and Natasha's plans for punishing the group are never really revealed, Arvo just follows Buricko's orders with reluctance, even admitting that he wishes it didn't have to be that way if you were nice to him beforehand.
It doesn't matter who's idea it was, he still played a hand in it, even if you robbed Arvo or not. And besides how do you know it was Buricko's idea? I don't recall anywhere in the game explaining who's plan it was to rob the group.
Even without translations, after the Russians come out of the woods, Buricko starts speaking for a solid 5 seconds glancing between Arvo and the Howe's Ski Cabin Group with Arvo asking him a question and getting an answer. When Clementine asks what he's saying, Arvo explains that he wants her group to lay down their guns so they can take their things.
With translations(of varying accuracy and content), Buricko tells Arvo the same instructions Arvo repeats to Clementine and Arvo asks him what exactly do they have that he wants, to which Buricko responses something along the lines of "Shit, I don't know! Just anything useful, really."
Them nutty Russians.
Jane did not know that Arvo's group would come back, though you present it in a way that she consciously allowed Clementine and company to pay the price of her theft. She cannot read the future!
Meh.
Sorry, got a bit heated towards the end there. Still, she started it but never receives any real repercussions for it, like a few other things. The only real acknowledgement is that Kenny points it when she voices her opinion on what to do about Arvo, to which she responds"Don't try and pin this on me!" ...Which is a frustratingly lame comeback, by the way.
I would've liked an opportunity to call her out on her being responsible for the ambush as well. Still, Jane having left earlier was a coincidence.
Yeah, I was just already really bitter considering the timing and circumstances.
I would've like an opportunity to do a lot of things....
Oh, I'm terribly sorry! I didn't know! (NOT meaning to sound cynical or sarcastic with this comment!!) (Oh, and BTW - that sunglasses emoji thing was supposed to be a B with a bracket in front of it.... Stupid TTG Forum emojis...)
Arvo is actually a Finnish and Estonian name and is not a plausible Russian name. Just thought I'd throw that fun fact out there (and, in all seriousness, you should've seen my ace when I heard Arvo's name and then the subtitles said he was speaking in Russian - I was just like "Da fuq did TTG do to this kid???") I think the voice acting was pretty good with Arvo, albeit deep for a boy in his later teen years. For Vit and Bur (I call them that cuz I tend to misspell or mispronounce their names) they were somewhat stereotypical with the thick rolls of the R's and the broken English when they speak in said language.
Again, I am SO sorry; I wasn't aware of your ethnicity! And no, you can't be racist towards your own ethnicity (I should know, given my own ethnicity and the jokes I sometimes crack at it). And yeah, I will admit, sometimes the Russian-villain thing can get a little old. If TTG had just portrayed them a wee bit better, then I would've probably taken Vit and Bur a wee bit more seriously (and not laugh at Arvo's name).
Once again, I apologize if I offended you when I challenged you about being Russian or not - if I had known about your ethnicity, I wouldn't have said anything about it to begin with.
who cares, it's just a game. none of this will matter in 10 years.
I agree with you, I feel like people hate him because he is "The Enemy" but if he was on our side doing the exact same things, we would be way more sympathetic.
If you don't, then why are you here?
Dude, don't ruin the fun out of this thread; this thread was meant solely for debate and discussion - no need to get all sour about it.
Agreed.
Okay, hold up, no insults please. As I said to WDF - this thread was meant solely for debate and discussion - his opinion and statements are just as valued as everyone else's on here.
And I have that mentality with other games, but mainly with multiplayer (like CoD or Destiny)
Okay, the ageism thing is a little over the top. With what you said, you were basically being rude to WDF.
And thinking that calling someone old is an insult is NOT ageism. Look up the definition, please.
If only we had been given that option.