I feel like in that moment, he snapped, and he couldn't take out his rage on his true target, Kenny. If Clem had been able to explain, or even tried to about, Natasha, he would have understood. I still don't know why that didn't happen. I mean Kenny snaps all the time and he gets a pass because he lost his family. There's so many things about this whole encounter with Arvo that just doesn't sit right with me.
I honestly agree. I couldn't help but feel a lot of sympathy towards the guy. He wasn't exactly Mr. Evil. You can tell right off the bat tha… moret he's at a great disadvantage. He's scrawny, has the leg brace, and all around appears to be very non-threatening. Of course looks can be deceiving, but in this scenerio he truly was not a threat. Jane takes his gun no matter what, which leaves him defenseless. Do you really think he's good at hand-to-hand zombie combat? Do you truly believe that he could've outrun any walkers that found him? By taking his gun, Jane seemingly condemned him to death. On top of that, you can determinantly steal his sister's medicine. It sounded to me as if she truly needed that medicine and I got the idea that he was being sincere. I never really saw the evidence that he was lying about his sister. They did set up the situation to make him seem a little bit shady, but I personally choose to believe Natasha truly was ill. (… [view original content]
No offence taken, mate, don't worry about it. This confusion could've easily been avoided, had I stated why I get to criticize beforehand, but I tend to get carried away in my verbiage every once in a while when something bothers me. That being said, your remark was quite fair enough. You have nothing to be sorry about.
Oh, and BTW - that sunglasses emoji thing was supposed to be a B with a bracket in front of it.... Stupid TTG Forum emojis...
Yeah, I figured that out. Emojis were added in the latest site update, which sucks ass if I'm honest here. Nothing tops the good old punctuation smiley.
Arvo is actually a Finnish and Estonian name and is not a plausible Russian name.
Oh, I know that, I'm just saying it was a pretty odd choice of a name if they intended to depict a Russian character, but that's not the worst of it, really. Arvo's lines in Russian, on the contrary, were quite decent and didn't set my teeth on edge along the way, hence why I assumed it's his VA's first language. His sister was alright, too (good on them for changing her name to Natasha, Maud isn't exactly easy to come across either). However, the remaining two thugs were plain horrid, both in grammatical and phonetical sense, and Buricko is essentially a walking stereotype of a Russian mobster. Them head tattoos are way too over the top, lol.
Anyway... Back to your thread, well, I suppose I should let you know that, leaving aside all these issues, I still had sympathy toward Arvo and been protecting him from Kenny all the way up to the point where he shoots Clementine, which, quite honestly, felt half-assed and blatantly out of character for him. As someone above said, his character grows oversimplified every single step of Ep. 5 to the extent of appearing as a resentless murderous scumbag in the end of all. If anything, this isn't what we saw of him in Episode 4, not one bit. I do believe he had potential, but Telltale apparently didn't want to develop him further and practically drives the player to hate him, and I call that sloppy work and lazy writing, yet again. That's how I see it, personally.
Ah, and there's one more random thingy. I been looking through my G+ notifications, and I think you may have upvoted me on YouTube at some point in time, haha. The world is a small place.
(idk how to switch language in that thing, but it says "[username] added +1 to your comment")
Oh, I'm terribly sorry! I didn't know! (NOT meaning to sound cynical or sarcastic with this comment!!) (Oh, and BTW - that sunglasses emoji … morething was supposed to be a B with a bracket in front of it.... Stupid TTG Forum emojis...)
Arvo is actually a Finnish and Estonian name and is not a plausible Russian name. Just thought I'd throw that fun fact out there (and, in all seriousness, you should've seen my ace when I heard Arvo's name and then the subtitles said he was speaking in Russian - I was just like "Da fuq did TTG do to this kid???") I think the voice acting was pretty good with Arvo, albeit deep for a boy in his later teen years. For Vit and Bur (I call them that cuz I tend to misspell or mispronounce their names) they were somewhat stereotypical with the thick rolls of the R's and the broken English when they speak in said language.
Again, I am SO sorry; I wasn't aware of your ethnicity! And no, you can't be racist towards your … [view original content]
Oh, well, I only just recently joined the site and started posting so I didn't know they had an update or that they didn't have emojis before. You learn something new every day!
Yeah, the instant I saw the tatts on Bur, I was like - "Hold up, since when was this a thing?" - I think that TTG might've just put in typical Russian stereotypes for Vit and Bur just so then the players could recognize them as Russians, considering that Arvo didn't look too much like a Russian (and I actually remember when jacksepticeye on YouTube played TWD Season 2 and he thought that Arvo sounded either French or Spanish). Vit wasn't stereotyped too much but Bur.... I wish they did something different with the lot of them.
Hold up, Natasha was originally named MAUD?! My gosh....
Yeah, I think that TTG just wanted to get Arvo out of the picture. They also needed to figure out a way for Clementine to end up in the truck with Kenneth and Jane, so shooting her was one of the better options.
Oh, that's so cool!! Yeah, pretty small world. (And yes, that IS me - a lot of people would probably assume coincidence but I can legitimately say that that's me.)
No offence taken, mate, don't worry about it. This confusion could've easily been avoided, had I stated why I get to criticize beforehand, b… moreut I tend to get carried away in my verbiage every once in a while when something bothers me. That being said, your remark was quite fair enough. You have nothing to be sorry about.
Oh, and BTW - that sunglasses emoji thing was supposed to be a B with a bracket in front of it.... Stupid TTG Forum emojis...
Yeah, I figured that out. Emojis were added in the latest site update, which sucks ass if I'm honest here. Nothing tops the good old punctuation smiley.
Arvo is actually a Finnish and Estonian name and is not a plausible Russian name.
Oh, I know that, I'm just saying it was a pretty odd choice of a name if they intended to depict a Russian character, but that's not the worst of it, really. Arvo's lines in Russian, on the contrary, were quite decent and didn't set my teeth on … [view original content]
It's hard to detect ANYTHING over the internet unless you know a person really well. And I don't favour it when someone's grammar is used incorrectly and the like, because I write a lot of stories and that on it's own kinda turned me into a Grammar Nazi (as people say it's called).
I do believe he had potential, but Telltale apparently didn't want to develop him further and practically drives the player to hate him, and I call that sloppy work and lazy writing, yet again.
You can say that for any character not named Kenny or Jane.
The more I think about Arvo shooting Clem, the more I hate it. It made no difference to anything except to make people hate Arvo, and make everything that happened to him seem justified.
The more I think about Arvo shooting Clem, the more I hate it. It made no difference to anything except to make people hate Arvo, and make everything that happened to him seem justified.
Okay, the ageism thing is a little over the top. With what you said, you were basically being rude to WDF.
And thinking that calling someone old is an insult is NOT ageism. Look up the definition, please.
If you don't, then why are you here?
Dude, don't ruin the fun out of this thread; this thread was meant solely for debate and discussion - no need to get all sour about it.
A survivor approaches a public area
A survivor who came through the woods
The survivor has a bag on their person
They cherish the belongings that are contained within
Approaching a stationary location in the public area
A stationary location where they place their belongings for convenient purposes
Suddenly a stranger appears
The survivor goes on the defensive fearful for their life
The stranger is indeed a strange one clad in a jacket
The survivor hopes that there will be no trouble
No trouble caused by the vulnerability of their person
Suddenly the stranger has a target
The survivor is now a target under a threat
Targeted under the threat of their own weapon
The stranger surprised them with their own poor timing
They stand complacent as the stranger takes a peak
A peak at the belongings that they hold dear
The stranger's eyes grow wide with intrigue
Her eyes are intrigued with the survivor's belongings
Eyes that pierce the survivor with envy
The stranger decides that the survivor doesn't have a need
A need for the belongings that the stranger now wants
The survivor is intimidated by this taunt and shrinks for mercy
The stranger's mean face wrinkles with dominance as she makes her decision....
Riddle me this: Who is the survivor, who is the stranger, and what is at stake?
@TheZorkij
I do believe he had potential, but Telltale apparently didn't want to develop him further and practically drives the player… more to hate him, and I call that sloppy work and lazy writing, yet again.
You can say that for any character not named Kenny or Jane.
@KrayZGamerNinja
Hold up, Natasha was originally named MAUD?! My gosh....
In the game files for Amid the Ruins. I personally headcanon it to be her street name.
Arvo comes back to steal/kill you even if you don't steal your stuff and even when he was threatened not to, that's enough for me. He only gives his place away because he doesn't want to be killed. By the way I defended him the entire time and he still shot me my first playthrough.
No, I'd definitely say he had a personality. The problem was that it had very little affect on anything after the shoutout because he got demoted to bloodhound for a while up until they arrived at his house.
Well, he shoots you no matter what honestly because the plot demands it. There are several justifications in place for it(Still being angry for Natasha's death, Clementine calling Kenny and Jane, possibly blaming her for allowing Kenny and Jane to abuse and bully him, Not trusting her to enough to come with them, in defense of Mike when Clementine threatens to shoot him, etc.), but it doesn't change the fact that it is a huge leap and a moral event horizon for a character who didn't get much screentime to be himself in said episode.
Arvo comes back to steal/kill you even if you don't steal your stuff and even when he was threatened not to, that's enough for me. He only g… moreives his place away because he doesn't want to be killed. By the way I defended him the entire time and he still shot me my first playthrough.
Well, he shoots you no matter what honestly because the plot demands it. There are several justifications in place for it(Still being angry … morefor Natasha's death, Clementine calling Kenny and Jane, possibly blaming her for allowing Kenny and Jane to abuse and bully him, Not trusting her to enough to come with them, in defense of Mike when Clementine threatens to shoot him, etc.), but it doesn't change the fact that it is a huge leap and a moral event horizon for a character who didn't get much screentime to be himself in said episode.
Didn't kill his sister. Defended him every chance I got. Tried to talk to Mike about not leaving instead of yelling for Kenny and Jane. Never threatened to shoot them and put the gun down(Ironically Arvo shoots you moments after Clem puts the gun down). So yeah my Arvo was kind of a huge jerk to shoot Clementine.
A survivor approaches a public area
A survivor who came through the woods
The survivor has a bag on their person
They cherish the b… moreelongings that are contained within
Approaching a stationary location in the public area
A stationary location where they place their belongings for convenient purposes
Suddenly a stranger appears
The survivor goes on the defensive fearful for their life
The stranger is indeed a strange one clad in a jacket
The survivor hopes that there will be no trouble
No trouble caused by the vulnerability of their person
Suddenly the stranger has a target
The survivor is now a target under a threat
Targeted under the threat of their own weapon
The stranger surprised them with their own poor timing
They stand complacent as the stranger takes a peak
A peak at the belongings that they hold dear
The stranger's eyes grow wide with intrigue
Her eyes are intrigued wi… [view original content]
Actually, technically you do have to "kill" his sister when she turns and crawls over for a delicacy of newborn baby and ball-capped little girl. Unless there's some determinant work around I don't know about.
From his perspective, Arvo was distracted by Kenny taking him hostage before he breaks free(which makes me wonder how strong he actually would be if he tried to attack someone) just in time to see Natasha get shot in the head by Clementine, which causes him to hold a grudge against her. While several people do make the case that he had plenty of time to notice that she may have turned, keep in mind that Natasha had sickle cell anemia which apparently gave her a naturally pale skin color to begin with. And even if he did realize that she had turned(or even knew that you don't have to be bitten in order to turn), she still died in a gunfight against Clementine's group that only really happened due to her associating with Jane, who tried(determinately succeeded) in stealing his sister's medicine in addition to his gun from a him, which caused his group to surround her group when he recognized her.
Didn't kill his sister. Defended him every chance I got. Tried to talk to Mike about not leaving instead of yelling for Kenny and Jane. Neve… morer threatened to shoot them and put the gun down(Ironically Arvo shoots you moments after Clem puts the gun down). So yeah my Arvo was kind of a huge jerk to shoot Clementine.
One scenario is Arvo, Jane, and a bag with medicine that can help Rebecca with labor and Natasha with her long-lasting sickness.
I know there's a second fit for this description though, and I can't figure it out.
I'm saying even if he thought you killed her you didn't and I apologized later that his sister died. And that gunfight happened full well because of Arvo and only caused by Jane somewhat. Still I never took his medicine so yeah totally his fault.
Actually, technically you do have to "kill" his sister when she turns and crawls over for a delicacy of newborn baby and ball-capped little … moregirl. Unless there's some determinant work around I don't know about.
From his perspective, Arvo was distracted by Kenny taking him hostage before he breaks free(which makes me wonder how strong he actually would be if he tried to attack someone) just in time to see Natasha get shot in the head by Clementine, which causes him to hold a grudge against her. While several people do make the case that he had plenty of time to notice that she may have turned, keep in mind that Natasha had sickle cell anemia which apparently gave her a naturally pale skin color to begin with. And even if he did realize that she had turned(or even knew that you don't have to be bitten in order to turn), she still died in a gunfight against Clementine's group that only really happened due to her associating with Jane, who tri… [view original content]
One scenario is Arvo, Clementine(but Jane will work as well), and a bag with medicine that can help Rebecca with labor and Natasha with her long-lasting sickness.
The other is Clementine, Michelle, and Clementine's baseball cap that Michelle arbitrarily wants because I guess it looks cool and Clementine wants because it's a memento from her dad.
Mere coincidence or Not So Different?
You're gonna have to give me the answer.
One scenario is Arvo, Clementine(but Jane will work as well), and a bag with medicine that … morecan help Rebecca with labor and Natasha with her long-lasting sickness.
The other is Clementine, Michelle, and Clementine's baseball cap that Michelle arbitrarily wants because I guess it looks cool and Clementine wants because it's a memento from her dad.
Mere coincidence or Not So Different?
…or I'll pop you!
How I remember things going down and why Harry Potter deserves to die. Imagine if you will...two people...both female...one in her early 20s, the other a spunky 11 year old. Both trying to find a way to get into a gift shop so that their pregnant comrade can give birth in peace. The 11 year old, let's call her Clementine spots a shady looking character coming towards the gift shop. The decide to hide. This shady no good Harry Potter reject appears to be stashing something in a garbage can.
He notices the 11 year old and pulls out his pistol and points it at her delicate and did we mention kindly looking face?
This is when the 20 some woman, we shall call her Jane, comes up on the stranger and grabs his gun.
The shady stranger calls himself Arvo...which is Russian for spawn of Satan, probably. He claims the package which is filled with meds is for his sister...we send him packing with his meds but keep the gun as he demonstrated that he is not to be trusted.
How was this mercy answered....Harry Potter and his Death Eaters appear and want to Jack our stuff.
Pertinent facts...He pointed a gun at Clementine...we let him go...He brings a rabble of illegal immigrants to take our stuff....and we think he tried to perform a patronus. His Death Eater pals get killed and Arvo is allowed to make amends by taking us to his home.
Guess what...typical Soviet era construction...oh and Kenny goes mental. Betrayal happens...and oh yeah Arvo shoots an 11 year old.....death...death death.
As much as I don't like Jane I think it's unfair to basically put all of Arvo's misdeeds on her. Yes she jumped on him, determinately robbed and then threatened him, but I don't think she was necessarily wrong for doing all of these things. She threatened him to keep him away from Rebecca and the group, she robbed him to make sure the group has what they would need. She didn't like doing it. She didn't beat him like Kenny, and let him walk away. It's one of the only times I think she truly thought about others besides herself and Clementine. But that's besides the point.
Arvo needs to be accountable for his actions. Yes, technically he would not have gone after them had Jane not intervened, but what happened afterwards was his choice. Disregarding whatever Buricko and Vitali's role might have been (and we don't know how extensive that is for sure) Arvo contributed to the choice to attack the group. Doesn't matter if he only intended to rob them. He and his group could have easily seen from a distance that they were outnumbered and outgunned. They went ahead with it and put themselves in this situation.
Point is, he had opportunities to try to stop what happened or not overreact between the moment Jane jumped on him to the moment his group was killed off, as well as the shooting of Clementine, but didn't take them. So I don't really like the long train of thinking that takes it from "well Arvo wouldn't have been mad at Clementine had Clementine not shot his sister had she not reanimated had they not staged an ambush which only happened because Jane attacked him," because that completely ignores his autonomy as his own character who made his own choices in that line of events.
Actually, technically you do have to "kill" his sister when she turns and crawls over for a delicacy of newborn baby and ball-capped little … moregirl. Unless there's some determinant work around I don't know about.
From his perspective, Arvo was distracted by Kenny taking him hostage before he breaks free(which makes me wonder how strong he actually would be if he tried to attack someone) just in time to see Natasha get shot in the head by Clementine, which causes him to hold a grudge against her. While several people do make the case that he had plenty of time to notice that she may have turned, keep in mind that Natasha had sickle cell anemia which apparently gave her a naturally pale skin color to begin with. And even if he did realize that she had turned(or even knew that you don't have to be bitten in order to turn), she still died in a gunfight against Clementine's group that only really happened due to her associating with Jane, who tri… [view original content]
Well, technically, I'm not. I was merely pointing out that Arvo's role in the story was primarily kickstarted by his encounter with Clementine and Jane: an aspect I would've liked to have been developed and/or expanded on. Jane may have had truly good intentions for what she did but it doesn't really change the fact that she went the wrong way about doing it. Granted, this is actually an example of Jane doing something I was expecting her to do and was relatively fine with at the time because it . Well, that and I didn't know the (low) scope of consequences at the time, it served as a threeway character establishing moment(My!Clementine as concerned for others regardless of allegiance, Jane as doing callous/aggressive things for an understandable cause, Arvo as drawing a gun in self defense against a little girl despite his obvious reluctance and then chewing out Jane when she indirectly threatened his sister despite his obvious fear), and I didn't legitimately hate Jane at the time.
Arvo at his core is just some dumb scared kid who wandered into the wrong place at the wrong time and had an encounter with two "heroes"(quotations marks because that includes Jane) dragged him into a situation he was too naive to properly respond to. Rather than let bygones be bygones(if he left with the medicine) or attempt to strike a deal of some sort(both before and after Jane decided she was taking the medicine), Arvo went back to Natasha and brought the Russian Group along for some poetic justice after telling them about Clementine and Jane. Then when he actually had their group at his mercy, he deferred to Buricko's orders(drop their weapons so we can take their things) rather than do what he wanted to punish them, even if he clearly didn't have the stomach to do anything himself. And then when it became apparent that what Buricko had in mind wasn't his cup of kahl'ua and then too many lives had been endangered by this disagreement, especially that of him, his sister, and a baby, he tried and failed to calm everyone down before Clementine, Buricko, and/or Kenny started the gunfight. While he definitely could've had a better reaction or done more to keep things under control, its reminiscent of what Clementine can tell Bonnie about the Ski Lodge situation,"It's everyone's fault."
I'm gonna isolate him shooting Clementine because it is the ultimate example of this and some of the only proper character development Arvo gets. Him shooting Clementine is literally the second to last thing he does in Season 2, which is highly context sensitive. Arvo was introduced hiding his/Natasha's stash of medicine in a recycle bin and draws his pistol in self defense when Clementine suddenly appears behind him; this display of danger is immediately undermined by the fact that his gun hand is jittering the entire time, showing him to be a fearful despite the fact that his opponent is a little girl who even he could potentially take in a fight (not holding my breath, tho). This directly contrasts with when he does so at the end of the game: once again, Arvo is trying to secure his belongings when Clementine approaches him from behind, only this time, she also has a gun ready to be drawn on him and he is a lot more serious about standing against her; despite the fact that their mutual friends Mike and Bonnie are attempting to keep things under control and determinately convince Clementine to help them, Arvo is now at a point where he was able to pull the trigger despite the fact that his opponent is still a little girl. The difference here is the context: Clementine showing up at the observation deck was completely unexpected but also something Arvo didn't want any trouble over due to her potentially kind nature as a little girl, whereas her stopping him from getting away from his own home occurs after hours of being held prisoner by her group and repeatedly beaten by Kenny after this same little girl seemingly killed any chance of his sister (the whole reason they clashed in the first place) surviving.
So, Arvo goes from a nervous bystander who makes a few dumb choices in self-defence, to a mourning prisoner who makes smarter choices in compliance, to a negatively encouraged villain who spitefully acts against those who have wronged him in the name of revenge.
As much as I don't like Jane I think it's unfair to basically put all of Arvo's misdeeds on her. Yes she jumped on him, determinately robbed… more and then threatened him, but I don't think she was necessarily wrong for doing all of these things. She threatened him to keep him away from Rebecca and the group, she robbed him to make sure the group has what they would need. She didn't like doing it. She didn't beat him like Kenny, and let him walk away. It's one of the only times I think she truly thought about others besides herself and Clementine. But that's besides the point.
Arvo needs to be accountable for his actions. Yes, technically he would not have gone after them had Jane not intervened, but what happened afterwards was his choice. Disregarding whatever Buricko and Vitali's role might have been (and we don't know how extensive that is for sure) Arvo contributed to the choice to attack the group. Doesn't matter if he only intended to rob… [view original content]
Yeah, the "it's everyone's fault" thing is kind of what I was getting at though. That it isn't just Jane's fault that this has happened (which was what I came to understand from your comment) it is everyone's fault, including Arvo. I think Arvo's part in it is being downplayed as "just a scared boy" to keep people from disliking him for the ambush, but I still think it's a legit reason to dislike him.
I'm more defending other's right to dislike him for this. At that point in the story I didn't steal from him and recognized that he might have been unwilling to have the ambush go this far. I didn't pass judgement on him until after I saw that he still resented my Clementine despite sticking up for him against Kenny.
Well, technically, I'm not. I was merely pointing out that Arvo's role in the story was primarily kickstarted by his encounter with Clementi… morene and Jane: an aspect I would've liked to have been developed and/or expanded on. Jane may have had truly good intentions for what she did but it doesn't really change the fact that she went the wrong way about doing it. Granted, this is actually an example of Jane doing something I was expecting her to do and was relatively fine with at the time because it . Well, that and I didn't know the (low) scope of consequences at the time, it served as a threeway character establishing moment(My!Clementine as concerned for others regardless of allegiance, Jane as doing callous/aggressive things for an understandable cause, Arvo as drawing a gun in self defense against a little girl despite his obvious reluctance and then chewing out Jane when she indirectly threatened his sister despite his obvious fear), and I … [view original content]
Yeah, the "it's everyone's fault" thing is kind of what I was getting at though. That it isn't just Jane's fault that this has happened (which was what I came to understand from your comment) it is everyone's fault, including Arvo.
Exactly.
I think Arvo's part in it is being displayed as "just a scared boy" to keep people from disliking him for the ambush, but I still think it's a legit reason to dislike him.
I'm more defending other's right to dislike him for this.
Oh, okay! Recognizing the facts and then choosing your own reception of them--That's perfectly fine, love!
Yeah, the "it's everyone's fault" thing is kind of what I was getting at though. That it isn't just Jane's fault that this has happened (whi… morech was what I came to understand from your comment) it is everyone's fault, including Arvo. I think Arvo's part in it is being downplayed as "just a scared boy" to keep people from disliking him for the ambush, but I still think it's a legit reason to dislike him.
I'm more defending other's right to dislike him for this. At that point in the story I didn't steal from him and recognized that he might have been unwilling to have the ambush go this far. I didn't pass judgement on him until after I saw that he still resented my Clementine despite sticking up for him against Kenny.
I understand Russian quite well. They were mocking the group, calling them weak, they wanted Jane badly to make her suffer slowly, possibly rape her. Clem's group foolishly pulled guns out. That is bad writing there. When I told him that we had a baby he was telling his group to put their guns down that he didn't want a baby to die. So AJ changed his mind yet he was going to steal supplies from AJ anyway. He led his group due to Jane and Mike liked him more than Clementine, he left with him. Arvo caused the ambush, when he should have tried to hunt down Jane. His group started shooting, their death is on them. Don't forget that Luke got shot in the leg and Mike got shot in the shoulder and they defended him. Bonnie also loved him and Luke and her both fell into the frozen water. Arvo lost his family in one swoop. He was never going to forgive them.
They were mocking the group, calling them weak, they wanted Jane badly to make her suffer slowly, possibly rape her.
I don't know whether I should ignorantly try to correct you or sternly ask if that's true. I'll go with the former and point out that they completely missed Jane until Clementine mentions her.
Vitali and Buricko were the ones doing the mocking, not Arvo, whom they also mocked.
Also, the implied connection of "Arvo," "rape," and "Jane" is sending me mixed messages.
So AJ changed his mind yet he was going to steal supplies from AJ anyway.
What? Also, kinda hard to steal from someone who was probably literally born yesterday, no matter what people say.
Mike liked him more than Clementine, he left with him.
A bit of a stretch, but why not! {Brian Posehn voice} I can rape to that!
Arvo lost his family in one swoop. He was never going to forgive them.
A hard truth of the matter. Too bad it wasn't played up, like a few other things about Arvo.
I understand Russian quite well. They were mocking the group, calling them weak, they wanted Jane badly to make her suffer slowly, possibly … morerape her. Clem's group foolishly pulled guns out. That is bad writing there. When I told him that we had a baby he was telling his group to put their guns down that he didn't want a baby to die. So AJ changed his mind yet he was going to steal supplies from AJ anyway. He led his group due to Jane and Mike liked him more than Clementine, he left with him. Arvo caused the ambush, when he should have tried to hunt down Jane. His group started shooting, their death is on them. Don't forget that Luke got shot in the leg and Mike got shot in the shoulder and they defended him. Bonnie also loved him and Luke and her both fell into the frozen water. Arvo lost his family in one swoop. He was never going to forgive them.
People were ok with Nick almost killing 11 year old Clementine but not ok with Arvo. Nick lost his mom, that's why he was on edge. Arvo lost his sister, that's why he was on edge.
Nick was intended to be an ally who initially shot at and later had a heart to heart with Clementine about his issues.
Arvo was intended to be someone who unfortunately ended up at odds with Clementine due to various extraneous circumstances that got out of control and eventually actually shot her.
While I agree that there is a similarity there, there is also a superficial difference.
People were ok with Nick almost killing 11 year old Clementine but not ok with Arvo. Nick lost his mom, that's why he was on edge. Arvo lost his sister, that's why he was on edge.
My Clementine didn't steal from Arvo. That was Jane and Arvo asks were she was and she was the one that threatened and stole from Arvo. Not Clem or the group. She pointed a gun at Arvo also. They should have went after her and not us. They called her a cowardly *****. They haven't had action in awhile and wanted to humiliate Jane in that way (like Carver did to Rebecca.) That's what they said. When Mike or Bonnie if she is alive still, take supplies from the group, they steal from AJ. Leave Arvo like we did with Lilly. I dropped Ben as a good guy looking after the group.
Nick was intended to be an ally who initially shot at and later had a heart to heart with Clementine about his issues.
Arvo was intended to… more be someone who unfortunately ended up at odds with Clementine due to various extraneous circumstances that got out of control and eventually actually shot her.
While I agree that there is a similarity there, there is also a superficial difference.
I didn't bring up her stealing specifically, dude. Just comparing Arvo to Nick. Where the fuck did the stuff about Jane, Mike, and Ben come from? Proof read your comments before you post!
Also, if Arvo gets squeamish about the prospect of shooting Clementine, robbing her group, and endangering AJ, then I'm pretty sure yebat'ing Jane is the last thing on his mind.
Edit:I'm sorry if I come across as mean here, I just got confused.
My Clementine didn't steal from Arvo. That was Jane and Arvo asks were she was and she was the one that threatened and stole from Arvo. Not … moreClem or the group. She pointed a gun at Arvo also. They should have went after her and not us. They called her a cowardly *****. They haven't had action in awhile and wanted to humiliate Jane in that way (like Carver did to Rebecca.) That's what they said. When Mike or Bonnie if she is alive still, take supplies from the group, they steal from AJ. Leave Arvo like we did with Lilly. I dropped Ben as a good guy looking after the group.
I didn't bring up Nick, I was replying to your other answer. He shot Clem due to his walker sister. Bonnie and Mike take his supplies when they leave, that's heartless and that shows that Arvo didn't care for AJ in the end, only Clem and Kenny. Like I said Arvo saw that it was Jane and no one else, going after the group was a bad call. He's 14 or 15 and his family died by their own hand. They started shooting.
I am so confused right now. The reply button is there for a reason. Again, make sure you either reply to the message you're responding to or quote the exact post so there won't be any confusion.
Now that I've caught on:
Bonnie and Mike take his supplies when they leave, that's heartless and that shows that Arvo didn't care for AJ in the end, only Clem and Kenny.
I assume you meant "care" as in getting back at Clementine and Kenny was his only concern at that point.
Like I said Arvo saw that it was Jane and no one else, going after the group was a bad call
Yeah, holding the whole group responsible for what Jane did just because he knew Clementine was a dickmove.
He's 14 or 15 and his family died by their own hand. They started shooting.
To be fair, the Russians didn't open fire until Clementine/Kenny put down Rebecca, which spooked Buricko into firing at them.
I didn't bring up Nick, I was replying to your other answer. He shot Clem due to his walker sister. Bonnie and Mike take his supplies when t… morehey leave, that's heartless and that shows that Arvo didn't care for AJ in the end, only Clem and Kenny. Like I said Arvo saw that it was Jane and no one else, going after the group was a bad call. He's 14 or 15 and his family died by their own hand. They started shooting.
Comments
I feel like in that moment, he snapped, and he couldn't take out his rage on his true target, Kenny. If Clem had been able to explain, or even tried to about, Natasha, he would have understood. I still don't know why that didn't happen. I mean Kenny snaps all the time and he gets a pass because he lost his family. There's so many things about this whole encounter with Arvo that just doesn't sit right with me.
No offence taken, mate, don't worry about it. This confusion could've easily been avoided, had I stated why I get to criticize beforehand, but I tend to get carried away in my verbiage every once in a while when something bothers me. That being said, your remark was quite fair enough. You have nothing to be sorry about.
Yeah, I figured that out. Emojis were added in the latest site update, which sucks ass if I'm honest here. Nothing tops the good old punctuation smiley.
Oh, I know that, I'm just saying it was a pretty odd choice of a name if they intended to depict a Russian character, but that's not the worst of it, really. Arvo's lines in Russian, on the contrary, were quite decent and didn't set my teeth on edge along the way, hence why I assumed it's his VA's first language. His sister was alright, too (good on them for changing her name to Natasha, Maud isn't exactly easy to come across either). However, the remaining two thugs were plain horrid, both in grammatical and phonetical sense, and Buricko is essentially a walking stereotype of a Russian mobster. Them head tattoos are way too over the top, lol.
Anyway... Back to your thread, well, I suppose I should let you know that, leaving aside all these issues, I still had sympathy toward Arvo and been protecting him from Kenny all the way up to the point where he shoots Clementine, which, quite honestly, felt half-assed and blatantly out of character for him. As someone above said, his character grows oversimplified every single step of Ep. 5 to the extent of appearing as a resentless murderous scumbag in the end of all. If anything, this isn't what we saw of him in Episode 4, not one bit. I do believe he had potential, but Telltale apparently didn't want to develop him further and practically drives the player to hate him, and I call that sloppy work and lazy writing, yet again. That's how I see it, personally.
Ah, and there's one more random thingy. I been looking through my G+ notifications, and I think you may have upvoted me on YouTube at some point in time, haha. The world is a small place.
(idk how to switch language in that thing, but it says "[username] added +1 to your comment")
Okay, that's good. ^_^
Oh, well, I only just recently joined the site and started posting so I didn't know they had an update or that they didn't have emojis before. You learn something new every day!
Yeah, the instant I saw the tatts on Bur, I was like - "Hold up, since when was this a thing?" - I think that TTG might've just put in typical Russian stereotypes for Vit and Bur just so then the players could recognize them as Russians, considering that Arvo didn't look too much like a Russian (and I actually remember when jacksepticeye on YouTube played TWD Season 2 and he thought that Arvo sounded either French or Spanish). Vit wasn't stereotyped too much but Bur.... I wish they did something different with the lot of them.
Hold up, Natasha was originally named MAUD?! My gosh....
Yeah, I think that TTG just wanted to get Arvo out of the picture. They also needed to figure out a way for Clementine to end up in the truck with Kenneth and Jane, so shooting her was one of the better options.
Oh, that's so cool!! Yeah, pretty small world. (And yes, that IS me - a lot of people would probably assume coincidence but I can legitimately say that that's me.)
It's hard to detect ANYTHING over the internet unless you know a person really well. And I don't favour it when someone's grammar is used incorrectly and the like, because I write a lot of stories and that on it's own kinda turned me into a Grammar Nazi (as people say it's called).
@TheZorkij
You can say that for any character not named Kenny or Jane.
@KrayZGamerNinja
In the game files for Amid the Ruins. I personally headcanon it to be her street name.
The more I think about Arvo shooting Clem, the more I hate it. It made no difference to anything except to make people hate Arvo, and make everything that happened to him seem justified.
Which is stupid no matter who or what it involved.
i appreciate you defending my age, but clearly what he said was joking.
1911 is just named after the pistol M1911, in 2012 Black Ops was the main game and i played zombies a lot, so idk.
what has been said in this thread was probably already said two years ago, sorry if i came across as rude, i was just trying to be funny.
Riddle me this: Who is the survivor, who is the stranger, and what is at stake?
Or a personality.
Arvo comes back to steal/kill you even if you don't steal your stuff and even when he was threatened not to, that's enough for me. He only gives his place away because he doesn't want to be killed. By the way I defended him the entire time and he still shot me my first playthrough.
No, I'd definitely say he had a personality. The problem was that it had very little affect on anything after the shoutout because he got demoted to bloodhound for a while up until they arrived at his house.
Well, he shoots you no matter what honestly because the plot demands it. There are several justifications in place for it(Still being angry for Natasha's death, Clementine calling Kenny and Jane, possibly blaming her for allowing Kenny and Jane to abuse and bully him, Not trusting her to enough to come with them, in defense of Mike when Clementine threatens to shoot him, etc.), but it doesn't change the fact that it is a huge leap and a moral event horizon for a character who didn't get much screentime to be himself in said episode.
I never did any of those things in that parentheses lol
Well shoot, what did you do?
Didn't kill his sister. Defended him every chance I got. Tried to talk to Mike about not leaving instead of yelling for Kenny and Jane. Never threatened to shoot them and put the gun down(Ironically Arvo shoots you moments after Clem puts the gun down). So yeah my Arvo was kind of a huge jerk to shoot Clementine.
One scenario is Arvo, Jane, and a bag with medicine that can help Rebecca with labor and Natasha with her long-lasting sickness.
I know there's a second fit for this description though, and I can't figure it out.
Actually, technically you do have to "kill" his sister when she turns and crawls over for a delicacy of newborn baby and ball-capped little girl. Unless there's some determinant work around I don't know about.
From his perspective, Arvo was distracted by Kenny taking him hostage before he breaks free(which makes me wonder how strong he actually would be if he tried to attack someone) just in time to see Natasha get shot in the head by Clementine, which causes him to hold a grudge against her. While several people do make the case that he had plenty of time to notice that she may have turned, keep in mind that Natasha had sickle cell anemia which apparently gave her a naturally pale skin color to begin with. And even if he did realize that she had turned(or even knew that you don't have to be bitten in order to turn), she still died in a gunfight against Clementine's group that only really happened due to her associating with Jane, who tried(determinately succeeded) in stealing his sister's medicine in addition to his gun from a him, which caused his group to surround her group when he recognized her.
Here's a hint(which probably should've been obvious given format): Notice the pronouns used.
I'm saying even if he thought you killed her you didn't and I apologized later that his sister died. And that gunfight happened full well because of Arvo and only caused by Jane somewhat. Still I never took his medicine so yeah totally his fault.
I know this wasn't your intention but this thread is making me angry all over again.
You're gonna have to give me the answer.
…or I'll pop you!
One scenario is Arvo, Clementine(but Jane will work as well), and a bag with medicine that can help Rebecca with labor and Natasha with her long-lasting sickness.
The other is Clementine, Michelle, and Clementine's baseball cap that Michelle arbitrarily wants because I guess it looks cool and Clementine wants because it's a memento from her dad.
Mere coincidence or Not So Different?
[has a real life chuckle, equivalent to online ROTFLMAO]
You're gonna have to believe me, but this was pure coincidence! The "I'll pop you" line was due to your profile picture and nothing more!
That image reaction, though. So accurate.
How I remember things going down and why Harry Potter deserves to die. Imagine if you will...two people...both female...one in her early 20s, the other a spunky 11 year old. Both trying to find a way to get into a gift shop so that their pregnant comrade can give birth in peace. The 11 year old, let's call her Clementine spots a shady looking character coming towards the gift shop. The decide to hide. This shady no good Harry Potter reject appears to be stashing something in a garbage can.
He notices the 11 year old and pulls out his pistol and points it at her delicate and did we mention kindly looking face?
This is when the 20 some woman, we shall call her Jane, comes up on the stranger and grabs his gun.
The shady stranger calls himself Arvo...which is Russian for spawn of Satan, probably. He claims the package which is filled with meds is for his sister...we send him packing with his meds but keep the gun as he demonstrated that he is not to be trusted.
How was this mercy answered....Harry Potter and his Death Eaters appear and want to Jack our stuff.
Pertinent facts...He pointed a gun at Clementine...we let him go...He brings a rabble of illegal immigrants to take our stuff....and we think he tried to perform a patronus. His Death Eater pals get killed and Arvo is allowed to make amends by taking us to his home.
Guess what...typical Soviet era construction...oh and Kenny goes mental. Betrayal happens...and oh yeah Arvo shoots an 11 year old.....death...death death.
As much as I don't like Jane I think it's unfair to basically put all of Arvo's misdeeds on her. Yes she jumped on him, determinately robbed and then threatened him, but I don't think she was necessarily wrong for doing all of these things. She threatened him to keep him away from Rebecca and the group, she robbed him to make sure the group has what they would need. She didn't like doing it. She didn't beat him like Kenny, and let him walk away. It's one of the only times I think she truly thought about others besides herself and Clementine. But that's besides the point.
Arvo needs to be accountable for his actions. Yes, technically he would not have gone after them had Jane not intervened, but what happened afterwards was his choice. Disregarding whatever Buricko and Vitali's role might have been (and we don't know how extensive that is for sure) Arvo contributed to the choice to attack the group. Doesn't matter if he only intended to rob them. He and his group could have easily seen from a distance that they were outnumbered and outgunned. They went ahead with it and put themselves in this situation.
Point is, he had opportunities to try to stop what happened or not overreact between the moment Jane jumped on him to the moment his group was killed off, as well as the shooting of Clementine, but didn't take them. So I don't really like the long train of thinking that takes it from "well Arvo wouldn't have been mad at Clementine had Clementine not shot his sister had she not reanimated had they not staged an ambush which only happened because Jane attacked him," because that completely ignores his autonomy as his own character who made his own choices in that line of events.
Well, technically, I'm not. I was merely pointing out that Arvo's role in the story was primarily kickstarted by his encounter with Clementine and Jane: an aspect I would've liked to have been developed and/or expanded on. Jane may have had truly good intentions for what she did but it doesn't really change the fact that she went the wrong way about doing it. Granted, this is actually an example of Jane doing something I was expecting her to do and was relatively fine with at the time because it . Well, that and I didn't know the (low) scope of consequences at the time, it served as a threeway character establishing moment(My!Clementine as concerned for others regardless of allegiance, Jane as doing callous/aggressive things for an understandable cause, Arvo as drawing a gun in self defense against a little girl despite his obvious reluctance and then chewing out Jane when she indirectly threatened his sister despite his obvious fear), and I didn't legitimately hate Jane at the time.
Arvo at his core is just some dumb scared kid who wandered into the wrong place at the wrong time and had an encounter with two "heroes"(quotations marks because that includes Jane) dragged him into a situation he was too naive to properly respond to. Rather than let bygones be bygones(if he left with the medicine) or attempt to strike a deal of some sort(both before and after Jane decided she was taking the medicine), Arvo went back to Natasha and brought the Russian Group along for some poetic justice after telling them about Clementine and Jane. Then when he actually had their group at his mercy, he deferred to Buricko's orders(drop their weapons so we can take their things) rather than do what he wanted to punish them, even if he clearly didn't have the stomach to do anything himself. And then when it became apparent that what Buricko had in mind wasn't his cup of kahl'ua and then too many lives had been endangered by this disagreement, especially that of him, his sister, and a baby, he tried and failed to calm everyone down before Clementine, Buricko, and/or Kenny started the gunfight. While he definitely could've had a better reaction or done more to keep things under control, its reminiscent of what Clementine can tell Bonnie about the Ski Lodge situation,"It's everyone's fault."
I'm gonna isolate him shooting Clementine because it is the ultimate example of this and some of the only proper character development Arvo gets. Him shooting Clementine is literally the second to last thing he does in Season 2, which is highly context sensitive. Arvo was introduced hiding his/Natasha's stash of medicine in a recycle bin and draws his pistol in self defense when Clementine suddenly appears behind him; this display of danger is immediately undermined by the fact that his gun hand is jittering the entire time, showing him to be a fearful despite the fact that his opponent is a little girl who even he could potentially take in a fight (not holding my breath, tho). This directly contrasts with when he does so at the end of the game: once again, Arvo is trying to secure his belongings when Clementine approaches him from behind, only this time, she also has a gun ready to be drawn on him and he is a lot more serious about standing against her; despite the fact that their mutual friends Mike and Bonnie are attempting to keep things under control and determinately convince Clementine to help them, Arvo is now at a point where he was able to pull the trigger despite the fact that his opponent is still a little girl. The difference here is the context: Clementine showing up at the observation deck was completely unexpected but also something Arvo didn't want any trouble over due to her potentially kind nature as a little girl, whereas her stopping him from getting away from his own home occurs after hours of being held prisoner by her group and repeatedly beaten by Kenny after this same little girl seemingly killed any chance of his sister (the whole reason they clashed in the first place) surviving.
So, Arvo goes from a nervous bystander who makes a few dumb choices in self-defence, to a mourning prisoner who makes smarter choices in compliance, to a negatively encouraged villain who spitefully acts against those who have wronged him in the name of revenge.
Yeah, the "it's everyone's fault" thing is kind of what I was getting at though. That it isn't just Jane's fault that this has happened (which was what I came to understand from your comment) it is everyone's fault, including Arvo. I think Arvo's part in it is being downplayed as "just a scared boy" to keep people from disliking him for the ambush, but I still think it's a legit reason to dislike him.
I'm more defending other's right to dislike him for this. At that point in the story I didn't steal from him and recognized that he might have been unwilling to have the ambush go this far. I didn't pass judgement on him until after I saw that he still resented my Clementine despite sticking up for him against Kenny.
Exactly.
Oh, okay! Recognizing the facts and then choosing your own reception of them--That's perfectly fine, love!
I understand Russian quite well. They were mocking the group, calling them weak, they wanted Jane badly to make her suffer slowly, possibly rape her. Clem's group foolishly pulled guns out. That is bad writing there. When I told him that we had a baby he was telling his group to put their guns down that he didn't want a baby to die. So AJ changed his mind yet he was going to steal supplies from AJ anyway. He led his group due to Jane and Mike liked him more than Clementine, he left with him. Arvo caused the ambush, when he should have tried to hunt down Jane. His group started shooting, their death is on them. Don't forget that Luke got shot in the leg and Mike got shot in the shoulder and they defended him. Bonnie also loved him and Luke and her both fell into the frozen water. Arvo lost his family in one swoop. He was never going to forgive them.
Well, Kenny does have a lot of old shames under his belt, unfortunately. But yes! Kenny does still fall into that category to a degree.
I don't know whether I should ignorantly try to correct you or sternly ask if that's true. I'll go with the former and point out that they completely missed Jane until Clementine mentions her.
Vitali and Buricko were the ones doing the mocking, not Arvo, whom they also mocked.
Also, the implied connection of "Arvo," "rape," and "Jane" is sending me mixed messages.
What? Also, kinda hard to steal from someone who was probably literally born yesterday, no matter what people say.
A bit of a stretch, but why not! {Brian Posehn voice} I can rape to that!
A hard truth of the matter. Too bad it wasn't played up, like a few other things about Arvo.
People were ok with Nick almost killing 11 year old Clementine but not ok with Arvo. Nick lost his mom, that's why he was on edge. Arvo lost his sister, that's why he was on edge.
Nick was intended to be an ally who initially shot at and later had a heart to heart with Clementine about his issues.
Arvo was intended to be someone who unfortunately ended up at odds with Clementine due to various extraneous circumstances that got out of control and eventually actually shot her.
While I agree that there is a similarity there, there is also a superficial difference.
My Clementine didn't steal from Arvo. That was Jane and Arvo asks were she was and she was the one that threatened and stole from Arvo. Not Clem or the group. She pointed a gun at Arvo also. They should have went after her and not us. They called her a cowardly *****. They haven't had action in awhile and wanted to humiliate Jane in that way (like Carver did to Rebecca.) That's what they said. When Mike or Bonnie if she is alive still, take supplies from the group, they steal from AJ. Leave Arvo like we did with Lilly. I dropped Ben as a good guy looking after the group.
I didn't bring up her stealing specifically, dude. Just comparing Arvo to Nick. Where the fuck did the stuff about Jane, Mike, and Ben come from? Proof read your comments before you post!
Also, if Arvo gets squeamish about the prospect of shooting Clementine, robbing her group, and endangering AJ, then I'm pretty sure yebat'ing Jane is the last thing on his mind.
Edit:I'm sorry if I come across as mean here, I just got confused.
I didn't bring up Nick, I was replying to your other answer. He shot Clem due to his walker sister. Bonnie and Mike take his supplies when they leave, that's heartless and that shows that Arvo didn't care for AJ in the end, only Clem and Kenny. Like I said Arvo saw that it was Jane and no one else, going after the group was a bad call. He's 14 or 15 and his family died by their own hand. They started shooting.
I am so confused right now. The reply button is there for a reason. Again, make sure you either reply to the message you're responding to or quote the exact post so there won't be any confusion.
Now that I've caught on:
I assume you meant "care" as in getting back at Clementine and Kenny was his only concern at that point.
Yeah, holding the whole group responsible for what Jane did just because he knew Clementine was a dickmove.
To be fair, the Russians didn't open fire until Clementine/Kenny put down Rebecca, which spooked Buricko into firing at them.