As good as Lilly is, i'd like to keep new characters coming, not just keep bringing back old characters from prev series, I'd like to come up with what happens some characters myself if that makes sense.
Tbh I liked it when she wasnt comfirmed as Lilly Caul. Would have like that to be her.
But as I know this was confirmed she wasnt in 'Road to Woodbury'
See, i think Arvo deserves some payback for shooting Clem too, but, in his case at least i can understand where he's coming from and why he did what he did. I mean, we did shoot his sister (who he still believed to be alive at that point) point blank in the face, no explanations.
In all honesty I'm more pissed at Mike and/or Bonnie than at Arvo, for what happened there.
I'd just settle for her return and reunion with Clementine. And if not too much to ask, have Clementine the option of being able to guide L… moreilly out of her depression (if she still is) and rekindle their friendship. Lilly deserves her chance to return. And I've stuck by this decision since 2014.
Also, Christa's fate revealed as well. Driving me crazy.
Never said Lee was right, either. If anything, he could be considered worse for killing someone pre-outbreak. At least with Lilly we watched… more the entire thing happen.
But if we're getting that deep, the human construct of right and wrong is basically shat on in The Walking Dead, turning it into a world of eat or be eaten.
That I can understand but Mike & Bonnie leaving still kinda irks me, I mean I get they want to get away from Kenny, since he was close to insanity but I would like to know what happened to them, be it they been eaten by walkers after they left or something.
See, i think Arvo deserves some payback for shooting Clem too, but, in his case at least i can understand where he's coming from and why he … moredid what he did. I mean, we did shoot his sister (who he still believed to be alive at that point) point blank in the face, no explanations.
In all honesty I'm more pissed at Mike and/or Bonnie than at Arvo, for what happened there.
That I can understand but Mike & Bonnie leaving still kinda irks me, I mean I get they want to get away from Kenny, since he was close t… moreo insanity but I would like to know what happened to them, be it they been eaten by walkers after they left or something.
If you can understand where he is coming from then how can you not understand where Lilly is coming from??
There are only two legitimate reasons for him to hate her or one as a matter of fact.
If you stole medicine from him (From that scene if you hadn't stolen medicine from him then the only person he should have any hate for is Jane)
Shooting his already dead sister, after he hears the gunshot and sees his sister flat on the ground, he runs to her and starts mourning her. Not only should he have realised that her flesh/skin has started to rot and change colour but also by the walker noises which she made before her death.
So him hating Clementine is out of his own stupidity and based on what you decided to do with his medicine. His intention wasn't to just shoot clementine, it was to kill her as the wound was relatively close to the heart (Surprisingly clementine recovered pretty fast from that)
Lilly's actions however were more justifiable and understandable. Carley was just a bitch and she had it coming, which is why i don't understand why you think Arvo was more understandable than Lilly.
Lilly was already depressed, she hasn't had much time to fully grieve her father's death along with the fact that the guy that she already hated and maybe the guy which she trusted being her father's murderers.
Someone was stealing the food and medicine and giving it to the bandits and the only two people which logically would've had time for that would be Carley and Ben. (Lilly frequently being lookout, rationing out the food, keeping the ammo in check and grieving her father's death. Kenny nearly for all three months was always working on that damn RV, trying to get it to work or working on his own car. Clementine and Duck are always out in the eye, playing together or doing their own thing. Katjaa was the medic of the group so either she was assisting wounds/illnesses or she was watching the kids. Lee is always seen talking with everyone, taking care of clementine or working on the barricades considering after ST John's he is the only guy capable of doing that. However on the other hand, Ben is always either just seen sitting around or on lookout duty. Carley is always by her own and never directly in the view of anyone.)
Carley was a bitch to Lilly right at the confrontation, mocking and insulting her. Saying that she hadn't done much for the group when Lilly's job was the toughest along with her frequent duty as lookout (She's the person we see the most on lookout) being dangerous as anyone with a sniper could've just scoped in on her and shot her. Carley just pulled the trigger for Lilly's gun along with her foolishly defending Ben which made her look like an idiot even in her grave.
They were just kicked out of their shelter because someone or some people had been stealing the group's food and medicine and once that had been found and Lee took the bag (Thus resulting in their deal being cut off) The bandits attacked and it was all because of someone.
How can you honestly understand Arvo's case but not Lilly's when hers is almost too justified and understandable if you have ever been in the position of a leader or if you can easily grasp the understandings of a situation, role or whatever? Also with the fact that Lilly looked remorseful after killing Carley (I can understand why you wouldn't understand Doug's death more but Carley's was justified) and she had cooperated whether you kicked her out or not other than her escaping and not taking Lee and Clementine with her (I think that would've been a more interesting concept than them going to savannah but yanno)
See, i think Arvo deserves some payback for shooting Clem too, but, in his case at least i can understand where he's coming from and why he … moredid what he did. I mean, we did shoot his sister (who he still believed to be alive at that point) point blank in the face, no explanations.
In all honesty I'm more pissed at Mike and/or Bonnie than at Arvo, for what happened there.
While I agree that the hatred is a bit strong, its probably a case of Lily suddenly snapping and killing Carley (who was a fan favorite) was her killing a friend over an insult. Lilly was the leader of the group who made tough decisions that didn't exactly enamor her to her group, but had such a good head on her shoulders that they put up with her. Having Larry as a father and consistently butting heads with Kenny kinda gave her a bit of bad publicity baggage in the long run when she began to lose it due to paranoia. The fact that some people didn't like Lilly's (or Larry) attitude beforehand only strengthened these feelings.
Meanwhile, Arvo is at best a completely neutral party who only overreacted due to things that were done to him first or at worse an ineffectual sympathetic villain who would've liked to be friends with Clementine if she was kind to him but was dragged down into being her enemy due to the actions of Jane. After being ridiculed by his own group members, trying to stop the violence before it really began, losing his sick sister who also tried to stop the violence, and being repeatedly abused by Kenny until Mike freed him, it becomes clear that he is just some easy target who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and made a few bad decisions that left him as a sole survivor who lashed out after a conga of trauma and was forced into being villainy due to heroes' actions. Him shooting Clementine crossed the line, yes, but fortunately she survived the shot with the bullet exiting her body.
So basically, there's a feeling of betrayal with Lily's murder, whereas Arvo's bad aim originates from someone who wasn't really considered a friend.
If you can understand where he is coming from then how can you not understand where Lilly is coming from??
There are only two legitimate … morereasons for him to hate her or one as a matter of fact.
* If you stole medicine from him (From that scene if you hadn't stolen medicine from him then the only person he should have any hate for is Jane)
* Shooting his already dead sister, after he hears the gunshot and sees his sister flat on the ground, he runs to her and starts mourning her. Not only should he have realised that her flesh/skin has started to rot and change colour but also by the walker noises which she made before her death.
So him hating Clementine is out of his own stupidity and based on what you decided to do with his medicine. His intention wasn't to just shoot clementine, it was to kill her as the wound was relatively close to the heart (Surprisingly clementine recovered pretty fast from that)
Lilly's actions howev… [view original content]
I'm simply a man of the people, if a person asks me why I haven't been adhering to my duties then I must abide. I assumed you wanted me to make you giggle. Otherwise, why bring up such a distracting topic when I'm simply answering a question?
Can't you spam that in the Meme And Fun Thread and Whatever Makes You Laugh Megathread instead of in actual discussions?
I am annoyed, and I dislike Kenny.
Lilly that women sufferd a lot i want to see her again i happy the way that she left so she still out of telltale killing range in the game that character get in that game his life chances become 10% cuz why because its the walking dead telltales not the tv show he give the long life the the characters i like both of them but telltale is very very crull when Comes for killing the characters and i kinda like that but this time i realy want telltale characters crime to stop when it comes for the old seasons characters like lilly
And for that thing that called kenny i didnt save him he is in my back home rubbish with some old pitzza or some thing
Any way i dont think he is going to last mor than ep1 becouse he is like jane have 50% for the existance on season 3
Then this was a misunderstanding. I was referencing our conversation of some days ago where you said you needed to reach 100% of joke comments to unlock Carlos Mencia level.
I'm simply a man of the people, if a person asks me why I haven't been adhering to my duties then I must abide. I assumed you wanted me to make you giggle. Otherwise, why bring up such a distracting topic when I'm simply answering a question?
Then this was a misunderstanding. I was referencing our conversation of some days ago where you said you needed to reach 100% of joke comments to unlock Carlos Mencia level.
"Lilly suddenly snapping and killing Carley was her killing a friend over an insult"
Lilly snapping was bound to happen though, especially with her current state and now the additional stress placed on her because Ben was too scared to say what was happening. Carley's insult was just an additional and unnecessary drag to her own death. Lilly already suspected it to either be Carley or/and Ben and Carley's 'Let me try to be a boss ass bitch' attitude and retaliation was uncalled for and suspicious as it was. Also to add onto that, i doubt Carley ever was Lilly's friend considering the two always had conflicting opinions and thoughts right from the start.
"The fact that some people didn't like Lilly's (Or Larry's) attitude beforehand only strengethened these feelings"
You see, i feel as though this is the fault of the writers. I feel as though personally there had not been enough information on Lilly's background for players to have a clear platform to judge her from. I feel as though Lilly's attitude was a reflection of how she was treated by her superiors in the navy, (lets not forget that it's a known fact that superiors in the american army have a tendency to abuse their inferiors and rape/sexual assault is common to happen) So i feel as though her rough attitude is based on her past which definitely should've been explored but I don't know why Larry's attitude influences players to hate on Lilly?? I love Lilly but hate Larry, another character shouldn't be a reason to hate on a different character.
"Who would've liked to be friends with Clementine"
Where was this implied? My Clementine had always been nice to Arvo and even told Kenny to stop being so harsh on Arvo on a couple of occasions. It was never implied that he wanted to be friends with her and if he had, he wouldn't have shot her right by her heart which would've been fatal. As i said before, actions of ANOTHER character shouldn't influence the way he felt about someone else.
"After being ridiculed by his own group members, trying to stop the violence"
If he hadn't told his group what happened (especially if you hadnt stole from him) then none of what had happened would've happened. He was at fault for everything and only tried to stop after he realised that Clementine's group had a baby. Otherwise he wanted revenge which I don't understand especially if you hadnt stole from him as i said.
"Being repeatedly abused by Kenny"
He is at fault for that as I said above. He had told the group about Clementine's group and goes as far to lead his own group to them despite of what you did upon meeting him for the first time. From what I see it, he was being cocky as he saw that his group compared to Clementine's was more equipped with better weapons so he took the opportunity to report back to his own group so that they could kill Clementine's group. Then after losing, he pays the price for his actions. I do agree the abuse was excessive but it was no reason for him to hold some sort of hate for Clementine.
"Forced to be villainy"
He was not forced. He didn't care about Clementine or her group hence the confrontation in the woods with the russian group. He was a villain and only became victimised after losing the fight and becoming a slave to clementine's group because he wanted to get rid of them in the first place.
"So, basically there's a feeling of betrayal with Lilly's murder, whereas Arvo's bad aim originates who wasnt really considered a friend"
Feeling of betrayal?? Lilly and Carley NEVER liked eachother in the first place and it was made obvious right from the start, you must be pretty oblivious if you think that they liked eachother as such was never implied. Her snapping was justified however his 'bad aim' wasn't just a mistake. He wanted to kill her. If he wanted to immobilise her then he would've went for the legs not the chest.
While I agree that the hatred is a bit strong, its probably a case of Lily suddenly snapping and killing Carley (who was a fan favorite) was… more her killing a friend over an insult. Lilly was the leader of the group who made tough decisions that didn't exactly enamor her to her group, but had such a good head on her shoulders that they put up with her. Having Larry as a father and consistently butting heads with Kenny kinda gave her a bit of bad publicity baggage in the long run when she began to lose it due to paranoia. The fact that some people didn't like Lilly's (or Larry) attitude beforehand only strengthened these feelings.
Meanwhile, Arvo is at best a completely neutral party who only overreacted due to things that were done to him first or at worse an ineffectual sympathetic villain who would've liked to be friends with Clementine if she was kind to him but was dragged down into being her enemy due to the actions of Jane. After being r… [view original content]
Lilly is overhated as hell and I'm glad people are now more oké with her than back then, just imagine Lilly came back in S2 with the same treatment Kenny got ugh...
If you choice to smash her dad's head in with Kenny she didn't try to kill you this is what alot of people forget! since that day forward she had my respect.
She never told (Correct me if I'm wrong) Lee's backstory to anyone except if you want to leave her on the road even though if you killed Larry she didn't say it out loud to anyone, she understands the decision why you killed Larry.
She had to life with Kenny and you everyday and even forgave you for killing her dad (she says that in EP3)
She could've probably killed Lee when you take her with you in the RV ''come with me''
Lee killed somebody before the apocalypse happened (two very different situations) but I can forgive her for killing Carley/Doug she snapped at that moment.
Hell I can talk about her all day if I want to because I think she is really interesting!
I'm open for her coming back in Season 3 but if she has absolutely no part in the story and if she is there for fanservice, gets Kenny's role or whatever I rather have her dead or not returning at all because that is the big middle finger from TTG in my eyes. Characters like Lilly I don't see everyday and still today people can talk about her ideals, coals, emotions and more
I wouldn't say they are that similar because they have had different backgrounds (We only know a bit about Lilly's which is that she was in the airforce I accidentally put in my post above about her being in the navy but i meant airforce and her mother had died some time ago but we have no information on Arvo other than his deceased sister)
Along with Arvo possibly being around the age of 15-20 in season 2 and Lilly being around 25-40 in season 1. So in reality Lilly should've experienced more than Arvo and gone through more especially being in the army but we can't tell as we don't know Arvo's past
However there are some things which they match up with;
Their dear ones had died in front of them
They had killed someone after the death of their dear ones
They had some form of 'leader' role in their group (Arvo leading his group to Clementine's)
They are both the underdogs of their seasons though as i stated in my post above, Arvo was a supposed villain turned victim whilst lilly went from leader turned 'villain' as she kills Carley/Doug AND if you let her stay then she steals the RV.
There isnt much else which i can certainly say applies to both of them as the lack of information on Arvo is troubling me here but those are some
Lilly is overhated as hell and I'm glad people are now more oké with her than back then, just imagine Lilly came back in S2 with the same tr… moreeatment Kenny got ugh...
* If you choice to smash her dad's head in with Kenny she didn't try to kill you this is what alot of people forget! since that day forward she had my respect.
* She never told (Correct me if I'm wrong) Lee's backstory to anyone except if you want to leave her on the road even though if you killed Larry she didn't say it out loud to anyone, she understands the decision why you killed Larry.
* She had to life with Kenny and you everyday and even forgave you for killing her dad (she says that in EP3)
* She could've probably killed Lee when you take her with you in the RV ''come with me''
* Lee killed somebody before the apocalypse happened (two very different situations) but I can forgive her for killing Carley/Doug she snapped at that moment.
Hell I can talk about her all… [view original content]
Lilly snapping was bound to happen though, especially with her current state and now the additional stress placed on her because Ben was too scared to say what was happening. Carley's insult was just an additional and unnecessary drag to her own death. Lilly already suspected it to either be Carley or/and Ben and Carley's 'Let me try to be a boss ass bitch' attitude and retaliation was uncalled for and suspicious as it was. Also to add onto that, i doubt Carley ever was Lilly's friend considering the two always had conflicting opinions and thoughts right from the start.
The point is they were members of the same group, where one suddenly killed the other.
So i feel as though her rough attitude is based on her past which definitely should've been explored but I don't know why Larry's attitude influences players to hate on Lilly?? I love Lilly but hate Larry, another character shouldn't be a reason to hate on a different character.
Unfortunately, that's a realistic example of how some people think. The Sins of the Father, they call it. I don't agree with it myself, obviously, but whaddya gonna do?
Where was this implied? My Clementine had always been nice to Arvo and even told Kenny to stop being so harsh on Arvo on a couple of occasions. It was never implied that he wanted to be friends with her and if he had, he wouldn't have shot her right by her heart which would've been fatal.
If you've been nice to him up till that ambush and tell him that he's not taking your stuff, he states that Buricko isn't telling him to ask. When the latter says something else to him (I assume it something like "Get the stuff, boy!"), Arvo just glances off to the side and shrugs before admitting that he wishes they had meet under different circumstances because Clementine's kindness is not common.
Note that this took place before the blastout, Natasha's putdown, and the two days of Arvo being Kenny's punching bag. Any illusions of kinship between them would've been gone by this point--and it was.
If he hadn't told his group what happened (especially if you hadnt stole from him) then none of what had happened would've happened. He was at fault for everything and only tried to stop after he realised that Clementine's group had a baby. Otherwise he wanted revenge which I don't understand especially if you hadnt stole from him as i said.
Yes, that was an overreaction on his part, but it's the thought that counts. Also note that even if you hadn't taken his medicine, Jane still took his gun, threatened him with it, and then tried to convince Clementine that they should steal it to his face. He still had a reason to be angry and while he does bring his group along to get even, he clearly was a bit conflicted about outright robbing the Howe's Ski Cabin Group, even if Clementine took the medicine. It was Buricko's idea to rob the entire group and while Arvo didn't really argue against him, he clearly had scruples about doing so that causes him to hesitate--seeing the baby only gave him a legitimate argument to convince Buricko to back off.
He is at fault for that as I said above. From what I see it, he was being cocky as he saw that his group compared to Clementine's was more equipped with better weapons so he took the opportunity to report back to his own group so that they could kill Clementine's group. Then after losing, he pays the price for his actions. I do agree the abuse was excessive but it was no reason for him to hold some sort of hate for Clementine.
First of all, as far as I can tell, outright killing Clementine's group was never really in his agenda, with the possible exception of if she fully cooperated with Jane. We later see that their base of operations is a half-built house with only a fireplace, several bags of food and supplies, and a broken down truck as valuables, so Arvo having such a thought is incredibly unlikely. Kenny attacking him over every little thing was uncalled for: Arvo had already given up the moment Natasha got hit, surrendered when Mike and Luke got in between them, and was absentmindedly leading them to his half-built home while mourning his sister. Aside from maybe him getting riled up when Mike disturbed him that night, Arvo had done very little to actually threaten anyone and Kenny was really just letting his anger over what happened with Carver, Sarita, and Rebecca control him at that point. Also, it's kinda hard to justify abuse of anyone from a moral standpoint.
He was not forced. He didn't care about Clementine or her group hence the confrontation in the woods with the russian group. He was a villain and only became victimised after losing the fight and becoming a slave to clementine's group because he wanted to get rid of them in the first place.
I'll simply restate that he was really just getting [un]even with no apparent intention of actually hurting anyone and move on. Here's Arvo's problem in this setup: his name is not Clementine, the main character. If we were to look at it from a neutral standpoint, neither side is truly bad: Clementine was just looking for a place for Rebecca to have her baby, Arvo was just looking for a place to stash some medicine for Natasha, both happened to pick the same spot by coincidence and met under uneasy circumstances. When she suddenly revealed herself, he understandably drew his gun in self-defense, though it's obvious from his shaking hand and nervous expression that he's just afraid of being attacked and doesn't actually want to shoot anyone, even though said attacker is a little girl he had no way of knowing was a badass and (determinate) sociopath. The two can have a relatively civil conversation and attempt to part on decent terms, when Jane, a third party who happened to be tagging along with Clementine, suddenly jumps him from behind and holds him at gunpoint while ordering Clementine to search his bag. While Clementine's take on what to do with his medicine is ultimately her choice to make, Arvo now has a reason to be angry with the two: they took his only defense, stuck him up with it, and then attempted(or succeeded) to steal his stash of medicine, in direct spite of the fact that his sister needs it if she's going to had a fair chance at survival. So, whether with the bag or without, Arvo is aggressively threatened by Jane at gunpoint before being sent on his way back home, where he no doubt had to tell Natasha what happened to him, sparking their later ambush of the Howe's Ski Cabin Group because of Clementine's presence. You see, if the tables were turned here and Arvo was the main character or even a major one, he would technically be just as in the right as Clementine would: if he had approached Clementine while her back was turned, Buricko attacked her despite Arvo's attempts to simply reason with her, he got to make the call over whether they steal from her or not(and determinately made the same choice she did), and then Clementine went to fetch her group with Jane ordering her to rob his entire group for what Buricko did despite her misgivings about it, would'nt it be basically the same? Assuming it (somehow) ended with similar results with her as Vitali's prisoner with Arvo having just as little a say in how he treats her as she does with Kenny, how would it be any different (aside from the gender and obvious age difference) between the two? It's the same basic conflict: One acted against the other, the other reacted against the one, and then it just spiraled from there with the other growing resentful over what the one helped kick-start by association.
Where Arvo succeeds as a character is where Carver (objectively)fails: he's not a bad person who does evil things for unsavory purposes, he's a neutral bystander who got unlucky, real unlucky, and had to make what ended up being a bad decision for justifiable reasons. With that said, Arvo fails as a villain where Carver succeeds because he lacks the ambition, the malice, and the misdeeds necessary to antagonize people and enjoy doing so for his grand design; he's just some handicapped guy who risked himself trying to keep his older sister alive and failed.
Feeling of betrayal?? Lilly and Carley NEVER liked eachother in the first place and it was made obvious right from the start, you must be pretty oblivious if you think that they liked eachother as such was never implied. Her snapping was justified however his 'bad aim' wasn't just a mistake. He wanted to kill her. If he wanted to immobilise her then he would've went for the legs not the chest.
You're missing the point, love! Lilly and Carley were members of the same group and one suddenly killing the other is betraying the trust and faith that the rest of the group had it them as a leader/member of the group. I specified Arvo's bad aim because it implies that he acted on purpose: he tried to kill someone who had proven to be his enemy, however minor, and failed!
This isn't about how one is barely justified and the other is unfairly persecuted; it's about how both of these two acted rashly when they previously had standards and pulled the trigger at someone! If you wanna like Lilly despite her action, fine; if you wanna lock up Arvo and throw away the key despite his inaction, then fucking fine; if you wanna speak your opinion with or without regard for facts and disagreement, go ahead, be my guest! However, the point is that these two very different individuals did something rash for a similar reason and acted on it in a similar fashion.
"Lilly suddenly snapping and killing Carley was her killing a friend over an insult"
Lilly snapping was bound to happen though, especiall… morey with her current state and now the additional stress placed on her because Ben was too scared to say what was happening. Carley's insult was just an additional and unnecessary drag to her own death. Lilly already suspected it to either be Carley or/and Ben and Carley's 'Let me try to be a boss ass bitch' attitude and retaliation was uncalled for and suspicious as it was. Also to add onto that, i doubt Carley ever was Lilly's friend considering the two always had conflicting opinions and thoughts right from the start.
"The fact that some people didn't like Lilly's (Or Larry's) attitude beforehand only strengethened these feelings"
You see, i feel as though this is the fault of the writers. I feel as though personally there had not been enough information on Lilly's background for players to have a… [view original content]
They had killed someone after the death of their dear ones
Who did Arvo kill? If you mean Clementine, she didn't die remember, so I think saying shot instead of killed would be more appropriate.
They had some form of 'leader' role in their group (Arvo leading his group to Clementine's)
I get what you're getting at, but I think I should elaborate anyway. While it's true that Arvo lead his group to Clementine's, I'm pretty sure he wasn't the leader, at least not an authoritatively official one. Buricko was clearly the one giving orders in that group, as he tells Arvo what to do in that scene. Arvo just seemed to be their liaison, packmule/stoolpidgeon, and possible meal ticket. If he was their leader, he was probably a leader in the sense that either Buricko put him in charge of this mission(like Randall did with Zachary) or like Clementine could be called the leader of her group--which actually sounds kinda cool, to be honest. Oh, the missed opportunities.
I wouldn't say they are that similar because they have had different backgrounds (We only know a bit about Lilly's which is that she was in … morethe airforce I accidentally put in my post above about her being in the navy but i meant airforce and her mother had died some time ago but we have no information on Arvo other than his deceased sister)
Along with Arvo possibly being around the age of 15-20 in season 2 and Lilly being around 25-40 in season 1. So in reality Lilly should've experienced more than Arvo and gone through more especially being in the army but we can't tell as we don't know Arvo's past
However there are some things which they match up with;
* Their dear ones had died in front of them
* They had killed someone after the death of their dear ones
* They had some form of 'leader' role in their group (Arvo leading his group to Clementine's)
* They are both the underdogs of their seasons though as i stated in my pos… [view original content]
How did Carley have it coming? She was trying to be a voice of reason and dissuade Lily from her delusional paranoia and to stop her from starting a witch hunt.
I have sympathy for what Lily is put through at Kenny's hands, and i always try to resuscitate her asshole of a father no matter how i feel about him. I understand she is in a bad place because of her grief, and all that noise.
that does not mean that shooting someone for no reason other than your own paranoia is acceptable in any way. Carley didn't steal the drugs - Ben did. Lily was acting so fucking crazy that Ben did not feel safe enough to admit what he did because of this. The whole situation was Lily's own doing. So, no i cannot understand where she was coming from enough that i would be okay having her around anyone else i cared about. EVER.
If you can understand where he is coming from then how can you not understand where Lilly is coming from??
There are only two legitimate … morereasons for him to hate her or one as a matter of fact.
* If you stole medicine from him (From that scene if you hadn't stolen medicine from him then the only person he should have any hate for is Jane)
* Shooting his already dead sister, after he hears the gunshot and sees his sister flat on the ground, he runs to her and starts mourning her. Not only should he have realised that her flesh/skin has started to rot and change colour but also by the walker noises which she made before her death.
So him hating Clementine is out of his own stupidity and based on what you decided to do with his medicine. His intention wasn't to just shoot clementine, it was to kill her as the wound was relatively close to the heart (Surprisingly clementine recovered pretty fast from that)
Lilly's actions howev… [view original content]
Comments
As good as Lilly is, i'd like to keep new characters coming, not just keep bringing back old characters from prev series, I'd like to come up with what happens some characters myself if that makes sense.
Tbh I liked it when she wasnt comfirmed as Lilly Caul. Would have like that to be her.
But as I know this was confirmed she wasnt in 'Road to Woodbury'
See, i think Arvo deserves some payback for shooting Clem too, but, in his case at least i can understand where he's coming from and why he did what he did. I mean, we did shoot his sister (who he still believed to be alive at that point) point blank in the face, no explanations.
In all honesty I'm more pissed at Mike and/or Bonnie than at Arvo, for what happened there.
You're not alone pal.
Exactly man
That I can understand but Mike & Bonnie leaving still kinda irks me, I mean I get they want to get away from Kenny, since he was close to insanity but I would like to know what happened to them, be it they been eaten by walkers after they left or something.
I'd like to know too. See where doing what they did got them, in the end.
Regarding what, Lilly or Christa?
Same here.
I heard that Kenny's VA apparently mentioned that Lily was supposed to return in No Time Left but didn't for whatever reason.
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If you can understand where he is coming from then how can you not understand where Lilly is coming from??
There are only two legitimate reasons for him to hate her or one as a matter of fact.
If you stole medicine from him (From that scene if you hadn't stolen medicine from him then the only person he should have any hate for is Jane)
Shooting his already dead sister, after he hears the gunshot and sees his sister flat on the ground, he runs to her and starts mourning her. Not only should he have realised that her flesh/skin has started to rot and change colour but also by the walker noises which she made before her death.
So him hating Clementine is out of his own stupidity and based on what you decided to do with his medicine. His intention wasn't to just shoot clementine, it was to kill her as the wound was relatively close to the heart (Surprisingly clementine recovered pretty fast from that)
Lilly's actions however were more justifiable and understandable. Carley was just a bitch and she had it coming, which is why i don't understand why you think Arvo was more understandable than Lilly.
Lilly was already depressed, she hasn't had much time to fully grieve her father's death along with the fact that the guy that she already hated and maybe the guy which she trusted being her father's murderers.
Someone was stealing the food and medicine and giving it to the bandits and the only two people which logically would've had time for that would be Carley and Ben. (Lilly frequently being lookout, rationing out the food, keeping the ammo in check and grieving her father's death. Kenny nearly for all three months was always working on that damn RV, trying to get it to work or working on his own car. Clementine and Duck are always out in the eye, playing together or doing their own thing. Katjaa was the medic of the group so either she was assisting wounds/illnesses or she was watching the kids. Lee is always seen talking with everyone, taking care of clementine or working on the barricades considering after ST John's he is the only guy capable of doing that. However on the other hand, Ben is always either just seen sitting around or on lookout duty. Carley is always by her own and never directly in the view of anyone.)
Carley was a bitch to Lilly right at the confrontation, mocking and insulting her. Saying that she hadn't done much for the group when Lilly's job was the toughest along with her frequent duty as lookout (She's the person we see the most on lookout) being dangerous as anyone with a sniper could've just scoped in on her and shot her. Carley just pulled the trigger for Lilly's gun along with her foolishly defending Ben which made her look like an idiot even in her grave.
They were just kicked out of their shelter because someone or some people had been stealing the group's food and medicine and once that had been found and Lee took the bag (Thus resulting in their deal being cut off) The bandits attacked and it was all because of someone.
How can you honestly understand Arvo's case but not Lilly's when hers is almost too justified and understandable if you have ever been in the position of a leader or if you can easily grasp the understandings of a situation, role or whatever? Also with the fact that Lilly looked remorseful after killing Carley (I can understand why you wouldn't understand Doug's death more but Carley's was justified) and she had cooperated whether you kicked her out or not other than her escaping and not taking Lee and Clementine with her (I think that would've been a more interesting concept than them going to savannah but yanno)
I actually like that Lilly's involvement was left undetermined, that goes double for Christa.
Not so bad to have a few serious comments on the record, huh?
Oh, and that reminds me to say...
How's that for a serious comment?
Can't you spam that in the Meme And Fun Thread and Whatever Makes You Laugh Megathread instead of in actual discussions?
I am annoyed, and I dislike Kenny.
While I agree that the hatred is a bit strong, its probably a case of Lily suddenly snapping and killing Carley (who was a fan favorite) was her killing a friend over an insult. Lilly was the leader of the group who made tough decisions that didn't exactly enamor her to her group, but had such a good head on her shoulders that they put up with her. Having Larry as a father and consistently butting heads with Kenny kinda gave her a bit of bad publicity baggage in the long run when she began to lose it due to paranoia. The fact that some people didn't like Lilly's (or Larry) attitude beforehand only strengthened these feelings.
Meanwhile, Arvo is at best a completely neutral party who only overreacted due to things that were done to him first or at worse an ineffectual sympathetic villain who would've liked to be friends with Clementine if she was kind to him but was dragged down into being her enemy due to the actions of Jane. After being ridiculed by his own group members, trying to stop the violence before it really began, losing his sick sister who also tried to stop the violence, and being repeatedly abused by Kenny until Mike freed him, it becomes clear that he is just some easy target who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and made a few bad decisions that left him as a sole survivor who lashed out after a conga of trauma and was forced into being villainy due to heroes' actions. Him shooting Clementine crossed the line, yes, but fortunately she survived the shot with the bullet exiting her body.
So basically, there's a feeling of betrayal with Lily's murder, whereas Arvo's bad aim originates from someone who wasn't really considered a friend.
I'm simply a man of the people, if a person asks me why I haven't been adhering to my duties then I must abide. I assumed you wanted me to make you giggle. Otherwise, why bring up such a distracting topic when I'm simply answering a question?
Lilly that women sufferd a lot i want to see her again i happy the way that she left so she still out of telltale killing range in the game that character get in that game his life chances become 10% cuz why because its the walking dead telltales not the tv show he give the long life the the characters i like both of them but telltale is very very crull when Comes for killing the characters and i kinda like that but this time i realy want telltale characters crime to stop when it comes for the old seasons characters like lilly
And for that thing that called kenny i didnt save him he is in my back home rubbish with some old pitzza or some thing
Any way i dont think he is going to last mor than ep1 becouse he is like jane have 50% for the existance on season 3
Then this was a misunderstanding. I was referencing our conversation of some days ago where you said you needed to reach 100% of joke comments to unlock Carlos Mencia level.
Oh no, where is my funny/"punny" score at now that we're having a misunderstanding? Comedians don't have misunderstandings...
Our God, Carlos Mencia never makes misunderstandings.
Edit: Also, @BetterToSleep, I'm blaming you if my Carlos MEMEcia score goes down for this intrusive misunderstanding you've presented me with.
"Lilly suddenly snapping and killing Carley was her killing a friend over an insult"
Lilly snapping was bound to happen though, especially with her current state and now the additional stress placed on her because Ben was too scared to say what was happening. Carley's insult was just an additional and unnecessary drag to her own death. Lilly already suspected it to either be Carley or/and Ben and Carley's 'Let me try to be a boss ass bitch' attitude and retaliation was uncalled for and suspicious as it was. Also to add onto that, i doubt Carley ever was Lilly's friend considering the two always had conflicting opinions and thoughts right from the start.
"The fact that some people didn't like Lilly's (Or Larry's) attitude beforehand only strengethened these feelings"
You see, i feel as though this is the fault of the writers. I feel as though personally there had not been enough information on Lilly's background for players to have a clear platform to judge her from. I feel as though Lilly's attitude was a reflection of how she was treated by her superiors in the navy, (lets not forget that it's a known fact that superiors in the american army have a tendency to abuse their inferiors and rape/sexual assault is common to happen) So i feel as though her rough attitude is based on her past which definitely should've been explored but I don't know why Larry's attitude influences players to hate on Lilly?? I love Lilly but hate Larry, another character shouldn't be a reason to hate on a different character.
"Who would've liked to be friends with Clementine"
Where was this implied? My Clementine had always been nice to Arvo and even told Kenny to stop being so harsh on Arvo on a couple of occasions. It was never implied that he wanted to be friends with her and if he had, he wouldn't have shot her right by her heart which would've been fatal. As i said before, actions of ANOTHER character shouldn't influence the way he felt about someone else.
"After being ridiculed by his own group members, trying to stop the violence"
If he hadn't told his group what happened (especially if you hadnt stole from him) then none of what had happened would've happened. He was at fault for everything and only tried to stop after he realised that Clementine's group had a baby. Otherwise he wanted revenge which I don't understand especially if you hadnt stole from him as i said.
"Being repeatedly abused by Kenny"
He is at fault for that as I said above. He had told the group about Clementine's group and goes as far to lead his own group to them despite of what you did upon meeting him for the first time. From what I see it, he was being cocky as he saw that his group compared to Clementine's was more equipped with better weapons so he took the opportunity to report back to his own group so that they could kill Clementine's group. Then after losing, he pays the price for his actions. I do agree the abuse was excessive but it was no reason for him to hold some sort of hate for Clementine.
"Forced to be villainy"
He was not forced. He didn't care about Clementine or her group hence the confrontation in the woods with the russian group. He was a villain and only became victimised after losing the fight and becoming a slave to clementine's group because he wanted to get rid of them in the first place.
"So, basically there's a feeling of betrayal with Lilly's murder, whereas Arvo's bad aim originates who wasnt really considered a friend"
Feeling of betrayal?? Lilly and Carley NEVER liked eachother in the first place and it was made obvious right from the start, you must be pretty oblivious if you think that they liked eachother as such was never implied. Her snapping was justified however his 'bad aim' wasn't just a mistake. He wanted to kill her. If he wanted to immobilise her then he would've went for the legs not the chest.
Lilly is overhated as hell and I'm glad people are now more oké with her than back then, just imagine Lilly came back in S2 with the same treatment Kenny got ugh...
Hell I can talk about her all day if I want to because I think she is really interesting!
I'm open for her coming back in Season 3 but if she has absolutely no part in the story and if she is there for fanservice, gets Kenny's role or whatever I rather have her dead or not returning at all because that is the big middle finger from TTG in my eyes. Characters like Lilly I don't see everyday and still today people can talk about her ideals, coals, emotions and more
I wouldn't say they are that similar because they have had different backgrounds (We only know a bit about Lilly's which is that she was in the airforce I accidentally put in my post above about her being in the navy but i meant airforce and her mother had died some time ago but we have no information on Arvo other than his deceased sister)
Along with Arvo possibly being around the age of 15-20 in season 2 and Lilly being around 25-40 in season 1. So in reality Lilly should've experienced more than Arvo and gone through more especially being in the army but we can't tell as we don't know Arvo's past
However there are some things which they match up with;
Their dear ones had died in front of them
They had killed someone after the death of their dear ones
They had some form of 'leader' role in their group (Arvo leading his group to Clementine's)
They are both the underdogs of their seasons though as i stated in my post above, Arvo was a supposed villain turned victim whilst lilly went from leader turned 'villain' as she kills Carley/Doug AND if you let her stay then she steals the RV.
There isnt much else which i can certainly say applies to both of them as the lack of information on Arvo is troubling me here but those are some
Hm, i see! Interesting.
I only find it that their current experience is in anyway similar though
I think she tells Lee's "secret" regardless of your relationship with her or the choice to bring her or not.
The point is they were members of the same group, where one suddenly killed the other.
Unfortunately, that's a realistic example of how some people think. The Sins of the Father, they call it. I don't agree with it myself, obviously, but whaddya gonna do?
If you've been nice to him up till that ambush and tell him that he's not taking your stuff, he states that Buricko isn't telling him to ask. When the latter says something else to him (I assume it something like "Get the stuff, boy!"), Arvo just glances off to the side and shrugs before admitting that he wishes they had meet under different circumstances because Clementine's kindness is not common.
Note that this took place before the blastout, Natasha's putdown, and the two days of Arvo being Kenny's punching bag. Any illusions of kinship between them would've been gone by this point--and it was.
Yes, that was an overreaction on his part, but it's the thought that counts. Also note that even if you hadn't taken his medicine, Jane still took his gun, threatened him with it, and then tried to convince Clementine that they should steal it to his face. He still had a reason to be angry and while he does bring his group along to get even, he clearly was a bit conflicted about outright robbing the Howe's Ski Cabin Group, even if Clementine took the medicine. It was Buricko's idea to rob the entire group and while Arvo didn't really argue against him, he clearly had scruples about doing so that causes him to hesitate--seeing the baby only gave him a legitimate argument to convince Buricko to back off.
First of all, as far as I can tell, outright killing Clementine's group was never really in his agenda, with the possible exception of if she fully cooperated with Jane. We later see that their base of operations is a half-built house with only a fireplace, several bags of food and supplies, and a broken down truck as valuables, so Arvo having such a thought is incredibly unlikely. Kenny attacking him over every little thing was uncalled for: Arvo had already given up the moment Natasha got hit, surrendered when Mike and Luke got in between them, and was absentmindedly leading them to his half-built home while mourning his sister. Aside from maybe him getting riled up when Mike disturbed him that night, Arvo had done very little to actually threaten anyone and Kenny was really just letting his anger over what happened with Carver, Sarita, and Rebecca control him at that point. Also, it's kinda hard to justify abuse of anyone from a moral standpoint.
I'll simply restate that he was really just getting [un]even with no apparent intention of actually hurting anyone and move on. Here's Arvo's problem in this setup: his name is not Clementine, the main character. If we were to look at it from a neutral standpoint, neither side is truly bad: Clementine was just looking for a place for Rebecca to have her baby, Arvo was just looking for a place to stash some medicine for Natasha, both happened to pick the same spot by coincidence and met under uneasy circumstances. When she suddenly revealed herself, he understandably drew his gun in self-defense, though it's obvious from his shaking hand and nervous expression that he's just afraid of being attacked and doesn't actually want to shoot anyone, even though said attacker is a little girl he had no way of knowing was a badass and (determinate) sociopath. The two can have a relatively civil conversation and attempt to part on decent terms, when Jane, a third party who happened to be tagging along with Clementine, suddenly jumps him from behind and holds him at gunpoint while ordering Clementine to search his bag. While Clementine's take on what to do with his medicine is ultimately her choice to make, Arvo now has a reason to be angry with the two: they took his only defense, stuck him up with it, and then attempted(or succeeded) to steal his stash of medicine, in direct spite of the fact that his sister needs it if she's going to had a fair chance at survival. So, whether with the bag or without, Arvo is aggressively threatened by Jane at gunpoint before being sent on his way back home, where he no doubt had to tell Natasha what happened to him, sparking their later ambush of the Howe's Ski Cabin Group because of Clementine's presence. You see, if the tables were turned here and Arvo was the main character or even a major one, he would technically be just as in the right as Clementine would: if he had approached Clementine while her back was turned, Buricko attacked her despite Arvo's attempts to simply reason with her, he got to make the call over whether they steal from her or not(and determinately made the same choice she did), and then Clementine went to fetch her group with Jane ordering her to rob his entire group for what Buricko did despite her misgivings about it, would'nt it be basically the same? Assuming it (somehow) ended with similar results with her as Vitali's prisoner with Arvo having just as little a say in how he treats her as she does with Kenny, how would it be any different (aside from the gender and obvious age difference) between the two? It's the same basic conflict: One acted against the other, the other reacted against the one, and then it just spiraled from there with the other growing resentful over what the one helped kick-start by association.
Where Arvo succeeds as a character is where Carver (objectively)fails: he's not a bad person who does evil things for unsavory purposes, he's a neutral bystander who got unlucky, real unlucky, and had to make what ended up being a bad decision for justifiable reasons. With that said, Arvo fails as a villain where Carver succeeds because he lacks the ambition, the malice, and the misdeeds necessary to antagonize people and enjoy doing so for his grand design; he's just some handicapped guy who risked himself trying to keep his older sister alive and failed.
You're missing the point, love! Lilly and Carley were members of the same group and one suddenly killing the other is betraying the trust and faith that the rest of the group had it them as a leader/member of the group. I specified Arvo's bad aim because it implies that he acted on purpose: he tried to kill someone who had proven to be his enemy, however minor, and failed!
This isn't about how one is barely justified and the other is unfairly persecuted; it's about how both of these two acted rashly when they previously had standards and pulled the trigger at someone! If you wanna like Lilly despite her action, fine; if you wanna lock up Arvo and throw away the key despite his inaction, then fucking fine; if you wanna speak your opinion with or without regard for facts and disagreement, go ahead, be my guest! However, the point is that these two very different individuals did something rash for a similar reason and acted on it in a similar fashion.
Who did Arvo kill? If you mean Clementine, she didn't die remember, so I think saying shot instead of killed would be more appropriate.
I get what you're getting at, but I think I should elaborate anyway. While it's true that Arvo lead his group to Clementine's, I'm pretty sure he wasn't the leader, at least not an authoritatively official one. Buricko was clearly the one giving orders in that group, as he tells Arvo what to do in that scene. Arvo just seemed to be their liaison, packmule/stoolpidgeon, and possible meal ticket. If he was their leader, he was probably a leader in the sense that either Buricko put him in charge of this mission(like Randall did with Zachary) or like Clementine could be called the leader of her group--which actually sounds kinda cool, to be honest. Oh, the missed opportunities.
Clementine killed Natasha/Walker!Natasha, not Arvo. I'm pretty sure walkers or dead people can't fire guns.
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You know what she did,
I know what Lily did but I don't know what he did.
Sorry dude, but that typo really did throw me off.
How did Carley have it coming? She was trying to be a voice of reason and dissuade Lily from her delusional paranoia and to stop her from starting a witch hunt.
I have sympathy for what Lily is put through at Kenny's hands, and i always try to resuscitate her asshole of a father no matter how i feel about him. I understand she is in a bad place because of her grief, and all that noise.
that does not mean that shooting someone for no reason other than your own paranoia is acceptable in any way. Carley didn't steal the drugs - Ben did. Lily was acting so fucking crazy that Ben did not feel safe enough to admit what he did because of this. The whole situation was Lily's own doing. So, no i cannot understand where she was coming from enough that i would be okay having her around anyone else i cared about. EVER.
Aside of knowing what became of Christa, I SO want this.