I swear that if Kenny actually said that, I would totally lose my shit and laugh for like, 10 minutes straight!
I mean, really. Kenny, TH… moreE Kenny calling someone out for 'breaking groups' after hours ago 3 member of our group ran away scared shitless of him? I mean, I know Kenny can be an hypocrite at times, but DAMN! That'd be a whole new level.
Plus Clementine showed no signs of remembering that detail - she never brings it up until after Jane says it, so it's possible that if Jane had not reminded Clementine of it, she may not have remembered the tactic at all.
Nah I mean people like Kenny. Dude has a lot of critics but also a lot of fans out there. Maybe his critics are a little more outspoken on these boards but there are a lot of people that liked the character.
I would hate to disagree with you but I find it hard to believe that Clementine would forget about that tactic and that terrible day. It's probably burned into her mind, unfortunately. Seeing your dead reanimated parents, seeing the man who's been taking care of you die, walking through a hoard of the undead and the only think keeping you alive are the rotting guts on your body. Kinda hard to forget. She probably would have said it had Jane not brought it up.
Plus Clementine showed no signs of remembering that detail - she never brings it up until after Jane says it, so it's possible that if Jane had not reminded Clementine of it, she may not have remembered the tactic at all.
As for my own opinions, I was kinda positively neutral towards Kenny: didn't love em, didn't hate em, and my feelings towards him was based more on the current situation, but I honestly didn't care about him.
Now, admittedly my opinion on him retroactively has been going down recently, but it's less because I don't like him and more that a lot of Season 2's flaws has his beard hairs somewhere in the vicinity.
Well I mean, it's not like she never had a chance to bring it up, there was an instance beforehand when she could - when Clementine is trapped with Nick/Pete, she could've talked about using the walkers to cover themselves by drawing one near them but that is just one instance xD so I can understand. Also when talking to Kenny again, she never brings that tactic up. Not saying she would've forgotten - I doubt it but it is definitely possible that she forgot that until Jane reminded her of it.
I would hate to disagree with you but I find it hard to believe that Clementine would forget about that tactic and that terrible day. It's … moreprobably burned into her mind, unfortunately. Seeing your dead reanimated parents, seeing the man who's been taking care of you die, walking through a hoard of the undead and the only think keeping you alive are the rotting guts on your body. Kinda hard to forget. She probably would have said it had Jane not brought it up.
Or, more realistically, Clementine simply didn't have the option(I thought she did?) to bring it up first so that Jane could have a cool moment. Even though a majority of her screentime in that episode was all about hyping her up as this stoic badass and most of the other characters(particularly Luke) didn't get this treatment. :rollingeyes:
Well I mean, it's not like she never had a chance to bring it up, there was an instance beforehand when she could - when Clementine is trapp… moreed with Nick/Pete, she could've talked about using the walkers to cover themselves by drawing one near them but that is just one instance xD so I can understand. Also when talking to Kenny again, she never brings that tactic up. Not saying she would've forgotten - I doubt it but it is definitely possible that she forgot that until Jane reminded her of it.
I'm not saying that she wanted to necessarily be alone, but I don't think she wanted to hold anyone's burden after what she went through with her sister. I think that's why she gravitated towards Clementine too; Clem is survivor Jamie didn't want to be. She tolerated the group, I think, to tacitly appease Clementine, but when she felt herself starting to get to attached she left. And when she saw how volatile the group was becoming she did what she thought was right to protect someone she grew to care about. Initially she used the group to escape the pen and got to know Clem a little more. I think her reasons for staying with the group are complex a more nuanced, but when Clem and her are by themselves she tells Clem's about how traveling in groups is dangerous, but then Clem can counter and say that beine alone can be just as dangerous too.so she wants companionship, but she's not intersted in being with a large group. That's also why she's reluctant to let the family in when they get back to Howe's.
This isn't directed at you, but your comment got me thinking about a certain misconception a lot of people tend to have toward people with a… more secluded mentality.
Some people feel as though Jane is an intrepid survivor simply because she has no desire to chain up with a group and act as though that group, no matter how morally deficient, is an extension of some idealistic representation of a "family." When the reality is something the game never tried to even ponder on, that maybe, just maybe seclusion is a more understandable position fundamentally then wrangled in a group of people that hold you back in the long run from surviving.
It kind of hit me as an epiphany, but I think that the game denying that notion time and time again as a bitterly fueled selfish indignation was a big reason as to why I despise No Going Back's thematic tone. There's so much talk about sticking close to people you're "comfortable" with, but what about the few… [view original content]
Jane stayed with them at the time for Clem's sake, but once their safety continually became comprised she decided a group dynamic was no longer the best course of action. She came back for Clementine. But clementine only. She tolerated Kenny b/c of Clem, but when he became dangerous she pulled her little prank that ultimately results in someone's death.
I'm not saying that she wanted to necessarily be alone, but I don't think she wanted to hold anyone's burden after what she went through wit… moreh her sister. I think that's why she gravitated towards Clementine too; Clem is survivor Jamie didn't want to be. She tolerated the group, I think, to tacitly appease Clementine, but when she felt herself starting to get to attached she left. And when she saw how volatile the group was becoming she did what she thought was right to protect someone she grew to care about. Initially she used the group to escape the pen and got to know Clem a little more. I think her reasons for staying with the group are complex a more nuanced, but when Clem and her are by themselves she tells Clem's about how traveling in groups is dangerous, but then Clem can counter and say that beine alone can be just as dangerous too.so she wants companionship, but she's not intersted in being with a large group. That's also why she's reluctant to let the family in when they get back to Howe's.
As for my own opinions, I was kinda positively neutral towards Kenny: didn't love em, didn't hate em, and my feelings towards him was based … moremore on the current situation, but I honestly didn't care about him.
Now, admittedly my opinion on him retroactively has been going down recently, but it's less because I don't like him and more that a lot of Season 2's flaws has his beard hairs somewhere in the vicinity.
I was thinking about this today as well, which is why I think the fight should have been between Luke and Kenny because the hated each other… more from the first conversation they had so it would make sense if they wanted to kill each other in episode 5. Whereas Jane and Kenny where fine with each other up until they started arguing in the car as far as I remember they didn't argue about anything before that moment. And that was only minutes before they had the fight so I don't understand why Jane suddenly wanted Kenny dead, it just doesn't make sense to me. I actually liked both characters up until Jane wanted to kill him and now I kind of dislike her. I actually think if Kenny and Jane got to know each other they would be good friends but as usual she doesn't even give him a chance like all the rest of the characters in season 2. But that's just my opinion
Well considering that the options are based of the main character's own thoughts - at least that's really the only explanation that has really been created, and since Clementine did not have the option to bring it up before Jane does it feels, to me, that the game alludes to Clementine having forgotten that tactic - but hey, at least she didn't forget it and only remembered once they were facing the horde(which would've made it a bit cliche ). I didn't really get 'stoic badass' from Jane, I personally got more of a 'lone wolf', which is what made me want to get to know her character.
Or, more realistically, Clementine simply didn't have the option(I thought she did?) to bring it up first so that Jane could have a cool mom… moreent. Even though a majority of her screentime in that episode was all about hyping her up as this stoic badass and most of the other characters(particularly Luke) didn't get this treatment. :rollingeyes:
If I had any say in the matter, Arvo would be dead right after the shootout. He caused it, he put everyone's lives in danger, got his group … morekilled, then whined about us being "not nice people" before he shot a child. Kenny was just being fucking rational. And he was right, considering what happened after. Just cause he wouldn't trust that crippled fuck after he fucked us doesn't make him an asshole.
Well considering that the options are based of the main character's own thoughts - at least that's really the only explanation that has really been created, and since Clementine did not have the option to bring it up before Jane does it feels, to me, that the game alludes to Clementine having forgotten that tactic - but hey, at least she didn't forget it and only remembered once they were facing the horde(which would've made it a bit cliche ).
Hmm....well, that is a way to put it.
I didn't really get 'stoic badass' from Jane, I personally got more of a 'lone wolf', which is what made me want to get to know her character.
The point is that she was an obvious gimmick in an already bare bones episode, so forgive me if I wasn't to giddy about her presence.
Well considering that the options are based of the main character's own thoughts - at least that's really the only explanation that has real… morely been created, and since Clementine did not have the option to bring it up before Jane does it feels, to me, that the game alludes to Clementine having forgotten that tactic - but hey, at least she didn't forget it and only remembered once they were facing the horde(which would've made it a bit cliche ). I didn't really get 'stoic badass' from Jane, I personally got more of a 'lone wolf', which is what made me want to get to know her character.
Previous experiences led Jane to believe that Sarah wouldn't be able to leave that episode of derealization behind, which is why she urged Clementine and Luke to leave. Pragmatically, as raw as it sounds, it would be better if three people survived in place of one.
I know you were replying to someone else, but I just want to say that while Jane's plan of leaving Sarah is understandable, as it was a life or death situation, her constant attempts to persuade Clementine to leave Sarah, someone who Clem may have grown a legitimate friendship with, is incredibly inconsiderate and to an extent, cruel. To try and pressure Clem into allowing her friend to be devoured by Walkers, which probably would cause more baggage and guilt for the 11 year old, does show that Jane isn't beyond putting people into horrible positions when it suits herself.
Oh, I am aware of it, Dan; thanks!
Previous experiences led Jane to believe that Sarah wouldn't be able to leave that episode of derealiz… moreation behind, which is why she urged Clementine and Luke to leave. Pragmatically, as raw as it sounds, it would be better if three people survived in place of one.
When Clem was able to convince Sarah, like you said—by slapping her suddenly across the face—Jane soon changed her mind and instead focused on getting the girls to safety.
her constant attempts to persuade Clementine to leave Sarah is incredibly inconsiderate and to an extent, cruel.
Jane's initial attempt to convince Clementine to leave the trailer was extremely considerate, taking into account that the girl would have died otherwise for all she knew, and Jane was even putting her life on the line by not leaving with Luke as soon as possible.
Jane was cruel when attempting to save the life of an eleven-year-old?
someone who Clem may have grown a legitimate friendship with
Previous experiences led Jane to believe that Sarah wouldn't be able to leave that episode of derealization behind, which is why she urged C… morelementine and Luke to leave. Pragmatically, as raw as it sounds, it would be better if three people survived in place of one.
I know you were replying to someone else, but I just want to say that while Jane's plan of leaving Sarah is understandable, as it was a life or death situation, her constant attempts to persuade Clementine to leave Sarah, someone who Clem may have grown a legitimate friendship with, is incredibly inconsiderate and to an extent, cruel. To try and pressure Clem into allowing her friend to be devoured by Walkers, which probably would cause more baggage and guilt for the 11 year old, does show that Jane isn't beyond putting people into horrible positions when it suits herself.
Jane's initial attempt to convince Clementine to leave the trailer was extremely considerate, taking into account that the girl would have died otherwise for all she knew, and Jane was even putting her life on the line by not leaving with Luke as soon as possible.
I understand that and acknowledged that Jane was indeed trying to save Clementine, herself and to a lesser extent, Luke. And there's nothing at all cruel about that. But what, in my view, is cruel is that Jane tried to convince Clem to just leave her friend to die, and while that may very well have been in the actual interest of Clementine, it was still inconsiderate to just expect Clem to ditch her friend.
That's irrelevant
No, it's actually not, considering that was the basis of my point. Jane, who had no idea what Clem and Sarah's relationship was, choose to put pressure on Clementine to leave someone she may have been close to.
her constant attempts to persuade Clementine to leave Sarah is incredibly inconsiderate and to an extent, cruel.
Jane's initial atte… morempt to convince Clementine to leave the trailer was extremely considerate, taking into account that the girl would have died otherwise for all she knew, and Jane was even putting her life on the line by not leaving with Luke as soon as possible.
Jane was cruel when attempting to save the life of an eleven-year-old?
someone who Clem may have grown a legitimate friendship with
That's irrelevant
But what, in my view, is cruel is that Jane tried to convince Clem to just leave her friend to die, and while that may very well have been in the actual interest of Clementine, it was still inconsiderate to just expect Clem to ditch her friend. Jane, who had no idea what Clem and Sarah's relationship was, choose to put pressure on Clementine to leave someone she may have been close to.
Jane's initial attempt to convince Clementine to leave the trailer was extremely considerate, taking into account that the girl would have d… moreied otherwise for all she knew, and Jane was even putting her life on the line by not leaving with Luke as soon as possible.
I understand that and acknowledged that Jane was indeed trying to save Clementine, herself and to a lesser extent, Luke. And there's nothing at all cruel about that. But what, in my view, is cruel is that Jane tried to convince Clem to just leave her friend to die, and while that may very well have been in the actual interest of Clementine, it was still inconsiderate to just expect Clem to ditch her friend.
That's irrelevant
No, it's actually not, considering that was the basis of my point. Jane, who had no idea what Clem and Sarah's relationship was, choose to put pressure on Clementine to leave someone she may have been close to.
EDIT: Just fixed something.
But what, in my view, is cruel is that Jane tried to convince Clem to just leave her friend to die, and while that may very well have been in the actual interest of Clementine, it was still inconsiderate to just expect Clem to ditch her friend.
Was Jane supposed to let Clementine be devoured before her eyes if she refused to leave Sarah behind? If I had been in that position, I would not have expected the girl to realize that staying equals death.
I am not following you.
I say it is irrelevant because the alternative would've been death. Perhaps it's relevant when discussing how things would likely turn out, but it's irrelevant when discussing what was the right thing to do.
Jane's initial attempt to convince Clementine to leave the trailer was extremely considerate, taking into account that the girl would have d… moreied otherwise for all she knew, and Jane was even putting her life on the line by not leaving with Luke as soon as possible.
I understand that and acknowledged that Jane was indeed trying to save Clementine, herself and to a lesser extent, Luke. And there's nothing at all cruel about that. But what, in my view, is cruel is that Jane tried to convince Clem to just leave her friend to die, and while that may very well have been in the actual interest of Clementine, it was still inconsiderate to just expect Clem to ditch her friend.
That's irrelevant
No, it's actually not, considering that was the basis of my point. Jane, who had no idea what Clem and Sarah's relationship was, choose to put pressure on Clementine to leave someone she may have been close to.
EDIT: Just fixed something.
Was Jane supposed to let Clementine be devoured before her eyes if she refused to leave Sarah behind? If I had been in that position, I would not have expected the girl to realize that staying equals death.
I've already said that I know that Jane's intentions were trying to benefit Clementine and I understood why she behaved how she did, but Jane, during that scene, expected Clementine to just abandon someone she may have very well been close to and encouraged her to leave them to death.
She didn't necessarily act wrong, but she was, as I've said, inconsiderate to how attached Clem could've been to Sarah. She was pressuring someone to, essentially, betray their companion when they needed them most and ignored what issues, in terms of regret and guilt, it could have on a child, or anyone for that matter. It was insensitive and to me, slightly cruel.
If I'm explaining this badly, I do actually apologize. Sometimes I can be flippin' terrible at trying to outline my main points, but I hope you get what I'm trying to get at now...
But what, in my view, is cruel is that Jane tried to convince Clem to just leave her friend to die, and while that may very well have been i… moren the actual interest of Clementine, it was still inconsiderate to just expect Clem to ditch her friend.
Was Jane supposed to let Clementine be devoured before her eyes if she refused to leave Sarah behind? If I had been in that position, I would not have expected the girl to realize that staying equals death.
I am not following you.
I say it is irrelevant because the alternative would've been death. Perhaps it's relevant when discussing how things would likely turn out, but it's irrelevant when discussing what was the right thing to do.
Aditional tags: @DabigRG
The point is, good intentions or not, Jane was trying to save Clementine at the cost of just throwing Sarah's life away without considering the fact that Clementine has known Sarah longer and that Sarah, whether she realizes it at the moment or not, trusts Clementine as her friend. Jane at least got the choice to make leave Jaime on her own terms and only after months of traveling and getting in a situation where leaving her behind was her only pragmatic option; Sarah just had her own breakdown and could've(and would've) recovered, with Clementine essentially being coerced into potentially leaving Sarah behind to die a forsaken death and would have to live with the fact that she killed yet another friend with her hastiness.
The fact that she continued to insist that Sarah was a dangerous lost cause combined with what actually ended up happening made Jane's actions a whole lot harsher in hindsight and made her more unsympathetic than she should've been.
Was Jane supposed to let Clementine be devoured before her eyes if she refused to leave Sarah behind? If I had been in that position, I woul… mored not have expected the girl to realize that staying equals death.
I've already said that I know that Jane's intentions were trying to benefit Clementine and I understood why she behaved how she did, but Jane, during that scene, expected Clementine to just abandon someone she may have very well been close to and encouraged her to leave them to death.
She didn't necessarily act wrong, but she was, as I've said, inconsiderate to how attached Clem could've been to Sarah. She was pressuring someone to, essentially, betray their companion when they needed them most and ignored what issues, in terms of regret and guilt, it could have on a child, or anyone for that matter. It was insensitive and to me, slightly cruel.
If I'm explaining this badly, I do actually apologize. Sometimes I can be flippin… [view original content]
They were originally/always planned for a Luke vs Kenny ending but because fans worked out what Telltale were planning they changed it to Jane last minute
I was thinking about this today as well, which is why I think the fight should have been between Luke and Kenny because the hated each other… more from the first conversation they had so it would make sense if they wanted to kill each other in episode 5. Whereas Jane and Kenny where fine with each other up until they started arguing in the car as far as I remember they didn't argue about anything before that moment. And that was only minutes before they had the fight so I don't understand why Jane suddenly wanted Kenny dead, it just doesn't make sense to me. I actually liked both characters up until Jane wanted to kill him and now I kind of dislike her. I actually think if Kenny and Jane got to know each other they would be good friends but as usual she doesn't even give him a chance like all the rest of the characters in season 2. But that's just my opinion
They were originally/always planned for a Luke vs Kenny ending but because fans worked out what Telltale were planning they changed it to Jane last minute
Oh alright I didn't know that lol That does make sense, thanks for telling me I still think they should have kept the Kenny vs Luke ending though, even if people guessed it, it would have been awesome
They were originally/always planned for a Luke vs Kenny ending but because fans worked out what Telltale were planning they changed it to Jane last minute
If Luke hadn't been shot and he had the fight with Kenny I think it would have been a fair fight and I would probably say Kenny would win actually but that's just what I think lol
Maybe this is where should've said exactly.
The point is, good intentions or not, Jane was trying to save Clementine at the cost of just… more throwing Sarah's life away without considering the fact that Clementine has known Sarah longer and that Sarah, whether she realizes it at the moment or not, trusts Clementine as her friend. Jane at least got the choice to make leave Jaime on her own terms and only after months of traveling and getting in a situation where leaving her behind was her only pragmatic option; Sarah just had her own breakdown and could've(and would've) recovered, with Clementine essentially being coerced into potentially leaving Sarah behind to die a forsaken death and would have to live with the fact that she killed yet another friend with her hastiness.
The fact that she continued to insist that Sarah was a dangerous lost cause combined with what actually ended up happening made Jane's actions a whole lot harsher in hindsight and made her more unsympathetic than she should've been.
If the old threads that I have come across are any proof, I would say that the forum is less shitty and all over the place, and more of an actual forum with discussions. I'm referring to the The Walking Dead section.
Thanks. Honestly though a lot of the time i do feel ganged up on because there are a lot more people that either don't like me or my posts a… morend when i post something they don't like, naturally they will disagree which is fine but it just bothers me when said people get several likes on their comment but nothing on mine which again shows how much people obviously think i'm a shit person or something. Just how i do feel these days. The forums have changed a lot since 2013
However I dont get this guy telling you not to say "agree to disagree" because thats just stupid, people can disagree on something particularly on a game based about choice.
Thank you not, @Firewallcano, but at least I have the chance to expand on this now.
I dislike this phrase because, in my personal experience, the only purpose that it has is to stall discussion surrounding any given topic whenever uttered—a cheap idiom used to replace meaningful talk. We are in a forum that seeks discussion particularly.
In a way, it feels similar to "beauty lies in the eye of the beholder." As soon as somebody says it, the majority don't dare to discuss any further in fear of being perceived as stubborn or foolish. This practically taints the thread, and other similar threads in the future, and it's also a courteous method for people to keep their views without further considering other perspectives.
Yeah but after all anything i say is hated by most people here so sometimes
Its not, You just have your own outlook on things, its f… moreine I dont really agree with a lot of what you post but thats okay. However you cant expect some people to not challenge the way you think if they disagree, especially ona forum for discussion.
However I dont get this guy telling you not to say "agree to disagree" because thats just stupid, people can disagree on something particularly on a game based about choice. Plus I will admit people really gang up on others here if your opinion isnt the "correct" one, so I dont blame you for trying to end the conversation when it starts going in circles.
Let's say that, while in the trailer, Jane makes sure that Clementine knows that she acknowledges that Sarah is the latter's friend and is in a state of grief, before urging her to leave. Would your opinion on Jane be more favorable because of this? If not, how would you amend her actions in a way that you'd agree with what she did?
I'm spending time discussing with both of you because I have the impression that you take the time to consider what the other person says.
Maybe this is where should've said exactly.
The point is, good intentions or not, Jane was trying to save Clementine at the cost of just… more throwing Sarah's life away without considering the fact that Clementine has known Sarah longer and that Sarah, whether she realizes it at the moment or not, trusts Clementine as her friend. Jane at least got the choice to make leave Jaime on her own terms and only after months of traveling and getting in a situation where leaving her behind was her only pragmatic option; Sarah just had her own breakdown and could've(and would've) recovered, with Clementine essentially being coerced into potentially leaving Sarah behind to die a forsaken death and would have to live with the fact that she killed yet another friend with her hastiness.
The fact that she continued to insist that Sarah was a dangerous lost cause combined with what actually ended up happening made Jane's actions a whole lot harsher in hindsight and made her more unsympathetic than she should've been.
but what about the few players who have been trying to break away from the group since day 1?
If you weren't asking this question rhetorically, then all they can really do is grin and bear it, I guess, because that rationale is conflicting with the story they want to tell (or attempted to tell)
Like, if someone isn't a fan of Clementine in S1, and doesn't want to be around her/interact with her (and they do exist), there isn't much they can do other than begrudgingly go along with it
This isn't directed at you, but your comment got me thinking about a certain misconception a lot of people tend to have toward people with a… more secluded mentality.
Some people feel as though Jane is an intrepid survivor simply because she has no desire to chain up with a group and act as though that group, no matter how morally deficient, is an extension of some idealistic representation of a "family." When the reality is something the game never tried to even ponder on, that maybe, just maybe seclusion is a more understandable position fundamentally then wrangled in a group of people that hold you back in the long run from surviving.
It kind of hit me as an epiphany, but I think that the game denying that notion time and time again as a bitterly fueled selfish indignation was a big reason as to why I despise No Going Back's thematic tone. There's so much talk about sticking close to people you're "comfortable" with, but what about the few… [view original content]
Uh...are you replying to me?! The bad thing about these kind of debates is that after a while, the replies just blend into each other in an indistinguishable cloud of gray.
If so and for starters, my (hate-filled) opinion of Jane isn't because of this scene, but the other scene--you know the one. I actually really like/love this scene because of Jane's contrasting viewpoint to Clementine and Sarah's. In this situation, she really is the gray character to Clementine's white and Sarah's grey: she has a pragmatic sense of survival that causes her to readily throw Sarah under the bus in a situation where Clementine wants to save her due to the rapidly approaching danger, even though she is basically doing the same thing Clementine is trying to do for Sarah. While I cannot agree with what she's willing to do to accomplish this hypocrisy, I can at least understand that this is a situation that Jane has gone through before and is emotionally trying to nip in the bud for Clementine's sake. The walk back conversation afterwards has her continue to insist that Sarah is dangerous now, while also explaining why she reacted the way she did.
I was really just agreeing with and backing up @OneWayNoWay because Sarah is sweet, Jane needs to be hit with a rock.
Aditional tags: @OneWayNoWay
Let's say that, while in the trailer, Jane makes sure that Clementine knows that she acknowledges that Sarah… more is the latter's friend and is in a state of grief, before urging her to leave. Would your opinion on Jane be more favorable because of this? If not, how would you amend her actions in a way that you'd agree with what she did?
I'm spending time discussing with both of you because I have the impression that you take the time to consider what the other person says.
but what about the few players who have been trying to break away from the group since day 1?
If you weren't asking this question rh… moreetorically, then all they can really do is grin and bear it, I guess, because that rationale is conflicting with the story they want to tell (or attempted to tell)
Like, if someone isn't a fan of Clementine in S1, and doesn't want to be around her/interact with her (and they do exist), there isn't much they can do other than begrudgingly go along with it
Comments
I think when he beat auvo that was it for her.
That's one way to propose.
Wow. Does anyone on this forum like Kenny? It doesn't seem like it.
Not to speak for them, but dan#####, wdfan, and [ThatpersonwhocalledNickaLillyripoff] all adore Kenny.
I like Kenny, allot of others also like Kenny but that doesn't mean many of us like how he acted in both Seasons of the game
Plus Clementine showed no signs of remembering that detail - she never brings it up until after Jane says it, so it's possible that if Jane had not reminded Clementine of it, she may not have remembered the tactic at all.
Nah I mean people like Kenny. Dude has a lot of critics but also a lot of fans out there. Maybe his critics are a little more outspoken on these boards but there are a lot of people that liked the character.
I would hate to disagree with you but I find it hard to believe that Clementine would forget about that tactic and that terrible day. It's probably burned into her mind, unfortunately. Seeing your dead reanimated parents, seeing the man who's been taking care of you die, walking through a hoard of the undead and the only think keeping you alive are the rotting guts on your body. Kinda hard to forget.
She probably would have said it had Jane not brought it up.
As for my own opinions, I was kinda positively neutral towards Kenny: didn't love em, didn't hate em, and my feelings towards him was based more on the current situation, but I honestly didn't care about him.
Now, admittedly my opinion on him retroactively has been going down recently, but it's less because I don't like him and more that a lot of Season 2's flaws has his beard hairs somewhere in the vicinity.
Well I mean, it's not like she never had a chance to bring it up, there was an instance beforehand when she could - when Clementine is trapped with Nick/Pete, she could've talked about using the walkers to cover themselves by drawing one near them but that is just one instance xD so I can understand. Also when talking to Kenny again, she never brings that tactic up. Not saying she would've forgotten - I doubt it
but it is definitely possible that she forgot that until Jane reminded her of it.
Or, more realistically, Clementine simply didn't have the option(I thought she did?) to bring it up first so that Jane could have a cool moment. Even though a majority of her screentime in that episode was all about hyping her up as this stoic badass and most of the other characters(particularly Luke) didn't get this treatment. :rollingeyes:
I'm not saying that she wanted to necessarily be alone, but I don't think she wanted to hold anyone's burden after what she went through with her sister. I think that's why she gravitated towards Clementine too; Clem is survivor Jamie didn't want to be. She tolerated the group, I think, to tacitly appease Clementine, but when she felt herself starting to get to attached she left. And when she saw how volatile the group was becoming she did what she thought was right to protect someone she grew to care about. Initially she used the group to escape the pen and got to know Clem a little more. I think her reasons for staying with the group are complex a more nuanced, but when Clem and her are by themselves she tells Clem's about how traveling in groups is dangerous, but then Clem can counter and say that beine alone can be just as dangerous too.so she wants companionship, but she's not intersted in being with a large group. That's also why she's reluctant to let the family in when they get back to Howe's.
Jane stayed with them at the time for Clem's sake, but once their safety continually became comprised she decided a group dynamic was no longer the best course of action. She came back for Clementine. But clementine only. She tolerated Kenny b/c of Clem, but when he became dangerous she pulled her little prank that ultimately results in someone's death.
Good one! I can appreciate that. LOL
That's not even a fair fight. Luke got shot in the leg. If Luke never got shot, Kenny would get his ass beat.
Well considering that the options are based of the main character's own thoughts - at least that's really the only explanation that has really been created, and since Clementine did not have the option to bring it up before Jane does it feels, to me, that the game alludes to Clementine having forgotten that tactic - but hey, at least she didn't forget it and only remembered once they were facing the horde(which would've made it a bit cliche
). I didn't really get 'stoic badass' from Jane, I personally got more of a 'lone wolf', which is what made me want to get to know her character.
This is a biased interpretation of what happened.
We have different conceptions of rational.
Hmm....well, that is a way to put it.
The point is that she was an obvious gimmick in an already bare bones episode, so forgive me if I wasn't to giddy about her presence.
Nah, there's a shitload of people who like Kenny, me being one, but like with any other character, there's also a shitload of people who hate him.
I know you were replying to someone else, but I just want to say that while Jane's plan of leaving Sarah is understandable, as it was a life or death situation, her constant attempts to persuade Clementine to leave Sarah, someone who Clem may have grown a legitimate friendship with, is incredibly inconsiderate and to an extent, cruel. To try and pressure Clem into allowing her friend to be devoured by Walkers, which probably would cause more baggage and guilt for the 11 year old, does show that Jane isn't beyond putting people into horrible positions when it suits herself.
Jane's initial attempt to convince Clementine to leave the trailer was extremely considerate, taking into account that the girl would have died otherwise for all she knew, and Jane was even putting her life on the line by not leaving with Luke as soon as possible.
Jane was cruel when attempting to save the life of an eleven-year-old?
That's irrelevant
I understand that and acknowledged that Jane was indeed trying to save Clementine, herself and to a lesser extent, Luke. And there's nothing at all cruel about that. But what, in my view, is cruel is that Jane tried to convince Clem to just leave her friend to die, and while that may very well have been in the actual interest of Clementine, it was still inconsiderate to just expect Clem to ditch her friend.
No, it's actually not, considering that was the basis of my point. Jane, who had no idea what Clem and Sarah's relationship was, choose to put pressure on Clementine to leave someone she may have been close to.
EDIT: Just fixed something.
Exactly.
Was Jane supposed to let Clementine be devoured before her eyes if she refused to leave Sarah behind? If I had been in that position, I would not have expected the girl to realize that staying equals death.
I am not following you.
I say it is irrelevant because the alternative would've been death. Perhaps it's relevant when discussing how things would likely turn out, but it's irrelevant when discussing what was the right thing to do.
Aditional tags: @DabigRG
I've already said that I know that Jane's intentions were trying to benefit Clementine and I understood why she behaved how she did, but Jane, during that scene, expected Clementine to just abandon someone she may have very well been close to and encouraged her to leave them to death.
She didn't necessarily act wrong, but she was, as I've said, inconsiderate to how attached Clem could've been to Sarah. She was pressuring someone to, essentially, betray their companion when they needed them most and ignored what issues, in terms of regret and guilt, it could have on a child, or anyone for that matter. It was insensitive and to me, slightly cruel.
If I'm explaining this badly, I do actually apologize. Sometimes I can be flippin' terrible at trying to outline my main points, but I hope you get what I'm trying to get at now...
Maybe this is where should've said exactly.
The point is, good intentions or not, Jane was trying to save Clementine at the cost of just throwing Sarah's life away without considering the fact that Clementine has known Sarah longer and that Sarah, whether she realizes it at the moment or not, trusts Clementine as her friend. Jane at least got the choice to make leave Jaime on her own terms and only after months of traveling and getting in a situation where leaving her behind was her only pragmatic option; Sarah just had her own breakdown and could've(and would've) recovered, with Clementine essentially being coerced into potentially leaving Sarah behind to die a forsaken death and would have to live with the fact that she killed yet another friend with her hastiness.
The fact that she continued to insist that Sarah was a dangerous lost cause combined with what actually ended up happening made Jane's actions a whole lot harsher in hindsight and made her more unsympathetic than she should've been.
They were originally/always planned for a Luke vs Kenny ending but because fans worked out what Telltale were planning they changed it to Jane last minute
Is that an exact fact or is it just a sour speculation that happens to make a lot of sense given the execution?
Oh alright I didn't know that lol That does make sense, thanks for telling me
I still think they should have kept the Kenny vs Luke ending though, even if people guessed it, it would have been awesome 
If Luke hadn't been shot and he had the fight with Kenny I think it would have been a fair fight and I would probably say Kenny would win actually but that's just what I think lol
Yeah, that's everything and more of what I was trying to say. Excellent post.
If the old threads that I have come across are any proof, I would say that the forum is less shitty and all over the place, and more of an actual forum with discussions. I'm referring to the The Walking Dead section.
Thank you not, @Firewallcano, but at least I have the chance to expand on this now.
I dislike this phrase because, in my personal experience, the only purpose that it has is to stall discussion surrounding any given topic whenever uttered—a cheap idiom used to replace meaningful talk. We are in a forum that seeks discussion particularly.
In a way, it feels similar to "beauty lies in the eye of the beholder." As soon as somebody says it, the majority don't dare to discuss any further in fear of being perceived as stubborn or foolish. This practically taints the thread, and other similar threads in the future, and it's also a courteous method for people to keep their views without further considering other perspectives.
A spot-on entry on this.
Aditional tags: @OneWayNoWay
Let's say that, while in the trailer, Jane makes sure that Clementine knows that she acknowledges that Sarah is the latter's friend and is in a state of grief, before urging her to leave. Would your opinion on Jane be more favorable because of this? If not, how would you amend her actions in a way that you'd agree with what she did?
I'm spending time discussing with both of you because I have the impression that you take the time to consider what the other person says.
If you weren't asking this question rhetorically, then all they can really do is grin and bear it, I guess, because that rationale is conflicting with the story they want to tell (or attempted to tell)
Like, if someone isn't a fan of Clementine in S1, and doesn't want to be around her/interact with her (and they do exist), there isn't much they can do other than begrudgingly go along with it
Uh...are you replying to me?! The bad thing about these kind of debates is that after a while, the replies just blend into each other in an indistinguishable cloud of gray.
If so and for starters, my (hate-filled) opinion of Jane isn't because of this scene, but the other scene--you know the one.
I actually really like/love this scene because of Jane's contrasting viewpoint to Clementine and Sarah's. In this situation, she really is the gray character to Clementine's white and Sarah's grey: she has a pragmatic sense of survival that causes her to readily throw Sarah under the bus in a situation where Clementine wants to save her due to the rapidly approaching danger, even though she is basically doing the same thing Clementine is trying to do for Sarah. While I cannot agree with what she's willing to do to accomplish this hypocrisy, I can at least understand that this is a situation that Jane has gone through before and is emotionally trying to nip in the bud for Clementine's sake. The walk back conversation afterwards has her continue to insist that Sarah is dangerous now, while also explaining why she reacted the way she did.
I was really just agreeing with and backing up @OneWayNoWay because Sarah is sweet, Jane needs to be hit with a rock.
Like that [gelatinCactusJackface] guy who was really aggressive about things he didn't like or agree on?
Yeah, just like that g--
wait who
The villain from Borderlands.
.[Googles] :oops:
Oh, he's Handsome!