then they outsourced their writers for Episode 4, cough cough, J.T. Petty.
And you do remember Telltale writer Eric Stirpe also wrote that episode as well right? And having outside writers come in isn't necessarily a problem, they did the EXACT same thing with Season 1. Oh wait, I forgot, Season 1 is perfect and when they did it, it was fine, but when Season 2 did it, it was terrible, I forgot how these forums work. Not to mention it also worked with Anthony Burch for TFTBL.
They gave up at the end of episode 2. When episode 3 was on the drawing board they realized it was too hard for their amateur writers to mak… moree a believable escape out of Howe's so they just said "fuck it, this is too hard, let's try again later in Season 3" then they outsourced their writers for Episode 4, cough cough, J.T. Petty.
I wouldn't say that the S2 writers basically 'given up' at some point, but I do feel that the quality of the writing had started to decline mid Episode 3, and had struggled to climb back up at that point on.
I'm not sure about Whitaker but Anthony Burch is a writer for Gearbox that worked as the main writer for Borderlands 2. He could keep consistent and write up to par with regular Telltale writers. J.T Petty has no experience in writing anything The Walking Dead related.
EDIT: I also remember a thread you made a while ago bringing up similar points on JT Petty writing Amid The Ruins. Slightly ironic
Whitta was the go between Skybound and TellTalegames...he made sure that the game stayed true to the Comic...also is a Hollywood screen writer...wrote The Book of Eli.
I'm not sure about Whitaker but Anthony Burch is a writer for Gearbox that worked as the main writer for Borderlands 2. He could keep consis… moretent and write up to par with regular Telltale writers. J.T Petty has no experience in writing anything The Walking Dead related.
EDIT: I also remember a thread you made a while ago bringing up similar points on JT Petty writing Amid The Ruins. Slightly ironic
Yes I know Anthony Burch wrote Borderlands 2 and used to be a writer at Gearbox, but he's still a guest writer who wrote for a Telltale game. They asked him to assist in the writing because of his knowledge and expertise with the subject matter, just as they did with Whitta (who spell check wrongly fixed to Whittaker in my original post) and Petty. If anything, Petty was probably more qualified to write for TWD as he has written and directed several horror films, books, and video games in the past. Now TWD is not a typical horror game, I understand that, but based on his credentials, he probably had more experience in this kind of stuff than Whitta did.
And that thread was almost two years ago, I remember it as I believe it was one of the first threads I ever made when I joined. Yes I did make that thread, and you know what, I regret it, it was wrong for me to call out and shit on his writing abilities for one episode I enjoyed less than other episodes in TWD series.
I'm not sure about Whitaker but Anthony Burch is a writer for Gearbox that worked as the main writer for Borderlands 2. He could keep consis… moretent and write up to par with regular Telltale writers. J.T Petty has no experience in writing anything The Walking Dead related.
EDIT: I also remember a thread you made a while ago bringing up similar points on JT Petty writing Amid The Ruins. Slightly ironic
But why, Whitta has never worked for Skybound either, what would he know about staying true to the comic. And yeah, he is a Hollywood screen writer, who wrote movies such "great" movies like After Earth. He also wrote the original script for Rogue One, but the studio then hired Chris Weitz to rewrite it.
Whitta was the go between Skybound and TellTalegames...he made sure that the game stayed true to the Comic...also is a Hollywood screen writer...wrote The Book of Eli.
Well for example, the opening to episode 5 following the ending of episode 4 was as unrealistic as an ant lifting a human being up in the air. Realistically when that Russian fired the shot towards whoever, he or she would have died and since everyone seemingly open fired on each other, they would have all killed one another. I just found it stupid how they all survived (the Russians as well at the start) with only what seemed minor injuries (ie. Mike's shoulder, Luke's leg). Also it made no sense how AJ was thrown a fair distance away from where Rebecca was. Everything with that opening was wrong on so many levels from a realistic point of view. It is a game however so...
then they outsourced their writers for Episode 4, cough cough, J.T. Petty.
And you do remember Telltale writer Eric Stirpe also wrot… moree that episode as well right? And having outside writers come in isn't necessarily a problem, they did the EXACT same thing with Season 1. Oh wait, I forgot, Season 1 is perfect and when they did it, it was fine, but when Season 2 did it, it was terrible, I forgot how these forums work. Not to mention it also worked with Anthony Burch for TFTBL.
They didn't "gave up" and it's kind of naive to say that. The process of Writing an episode is quite different than writing a full game. Even more difficult i would say. You have to outline the big setpieces of the episode, you have to decide which character is involved in what and you have to think, what can possibly happen in the next episodes. The problem of S2 wasn't really the writers, but the time they had, to write the story. On top of that they had the preassure of Writing a Sequel to one of the best Stories in a Videogame.
People like to criticize on S2, because it's easy to see the flaws, but you should also know, Why it is the way it is.
S3 will be different, though. They had the time, to write a cohesive Story and im sure, it will be better than S2.
They didn't "gave up" and it's kind of naive to say that. The process of Writing an episode is quite different than writing a full game. Eve… moren more difficult i would say. You have to outline the big setpieces of the episode, you have to decide which character is involved in what and you have to think, what can possibly happen in the next episodes. The problem of S2 wasn't really the writers, but the time they had, to write the story. On top of that they had the preassure of Writing a Sequel to one of the best Stories in a Videogame.
People like to criticize on S2, because it's easy to see the flaws, but you should also know, Why it is the way it is.
S3 will be different, though. They had the time, to write a cohesive Story and im sure, it will be better than S2.
Outside writers in season 1?
Ep 1- Sean Vanaman
Ep 2 - Mark Darin, Chuck Jordan
Ep3 - Sean Vanaman, Mark Darin (Only the bandit attack scene)
Ep 4 - Gary Whitta
Ep5 - Sean Vanaman
Weren't they all Telltale staff?
Yeah, admittedly it is something of a messy stretch.
The funny thing is that, taking the confusion between Buricko(bald) and Vitali(crazy) into account from the perspective of Amid the Ruins, when Buricko/Vitali opened fire, everyone would have to duck for cover, which makes since for Clementine and Luke's positions, but not the others. Without that cliffhanger, Vitali/Buricko getting shot by Mike and shooting him back makes some amount of sense if he wasn't using a shotgun and Kenny focusing on Buricko/Vitali kinda makes sense thematically, I guess.Though as for Bonnie teleporting into the woods, unless we're meant to assume she shot Natasha(which doesn't really gel with the fact that Kenny is seemingly blamed for killing her by Buricko/Vitali) and then ran for cover, your guess is as good as mine.
AJ being on the ground suggests that either Kenny, Mike, or Vitali/Buricko may have bump into Rebecca's corpse in the confusion, though how he got as fair as he did is anyone's guess.
Well for example, the opening to episode 5 following the ending of episode 4 was as unrealistic as an ant lifting a human being up in the ai… morer. Realistically when that Russian fired the shot towards whoever, he or she would have died and since everyone seemingly open fired on each other, they would have all killed one another. I just found it stupid how they all survived (the Russians as well at the start) with only what seemed minor injuries (ie. Mike's shoulder, Luke's leg). Also it made no sense how AJ was thrown a fair distance away from where Rebecca was. Everything with that opening was wrong on so many levels from a realistic point of view. It is a game however so...
Yeah, admittedly it is something of a messy stretch.
The funny thing is that, taking the confusion between Buricko(bald) and Vitali(crazy… more) into account from the perspective of Amid the Ruins, when Buricko/Vitali opened fire, everyone would have to duck for cover, which makes since for Clementine and Luke's positions, but not the others. Without that cliffhanger, Vitali/Buricko getting shot by Mike and shooting him back makes some amount of sense if he wasn't using a shotgun and Kenny focusing on Buricko/Vitali kinda makes sense thematically, I guess.Though as for Bonnie teleporting into the woods, unless we're meant to assume she shot Natasha(which doesn't really gel with the fact that Kenny is seemingly blamed for killing her by Buricko/Vitali) and then ran for cover, your guess is as good as mine.
AJ being on the ground suggests that either Kenny, Mike, or Vitali/Buricko may have bump into Rebecca's corpse in the confusion, though how he got as fair as he did is anyone's guess.
Yeeeah, there's only so much you can do about that. I recall deconstructing that scene when writing my Unintentionally Sympathetic example on Arvo(where I made fun of it) and my entry on Sarah and maybe Natasha in your determinant character change thread(where I tried to provide some explanation for AJ being the ground) and that's the basic gist I got.
I don't want to say they "gave up" but it certainly felt like there were certain plot beats and details that had a lot of build up but were either just completely dropped or rushed in favor of getting to the next story bit quickly because they were on a tight schedule or something.
I'm not gonna deny that the game has its problems, but I still think Season Two is still good despite its flaws. I wouldn't say the writers gave up in a sense. They just didn't think certain things all the way through.
Like others I'm not going to use the phrase "give up" - there was an effort. But the problem was the effort going towards the wrong direction. In my opinion, that moment happens the moment Carver is killed. You just lost your antagonist, your main source of conflict, your goal to escape, and then we're left with a big "now what?" moment that never really gets filled with anything meaningful with the exception of sloppy deaths, random Russians, and rehashed character arcs (Jane and Molly; Kenny and...well, Kenny).
I'm not gonna deny that the game has its problems, but I still think Season Two is still good despite its flaws. I wouldn't say the writers gave up in a sense. They just didn't think certain things all the way through.
More like Kenny hijacked the season. With the unlikely assistance of Jane. In fact, they made the season their bitch and then fought over who deserves it more.
If you guys enjoyed Kenny on his own, that's perfectly fine. After all, he needed to do that at some point or else his inclusion would've been pointless. But the truth of the matter is he's a crutch made of nostalgia and "fanservice" that was used to cover up the flaws of the Season, when in reality it only made them more apparent, exacerbated some of them, and even added more.
Jane wasn't much better (as an obvious gimmick) in my opinion, but at least she was quickly developed into a character in her own right, had moments where her presence was actually necessary/useful, was used to help mutually develop other characters, and stayed in the fucking background when she wasn't. Kenny himself was at his worst in episode 3 because he barely did any of this, but at least he was toned down and learned to follow Sarah and Jane's example when appropriate.
I'm all for entertainment, pandering, and even filler when its appropriate, but I think Kenny being ...well, Kenny was one of the things that made Episode 3 feel as bare as it did. It needs to be enjoyable or at least bloggable(why is that an actual word?) on a wider scope in the long term.
But the problem was the effort going towards the wrong direction.
That's another great way of putting it.
In my opinion, that moment happens the moment Carver is killed. You just lost your antagonist, your main source of conflict, your goal to escape, and then we're left with a big "now what?" moment
To be fair, I think a story that kills off it's main antagonist after the halfway point is an interesting risk to take, but its exactly that--a risk.
Though, my understanding of Season 2's plot was "Clementine helps a group of refugees escape the tyranny of an evil settlement leader and make their way to safety." That should've been enough room to create an after the fact plot to finish the Season, but what we got instead half-assed(or even quartered) that idea in favor of another wasted plot involving a nebulous Russian group, which in turn lead to a hostage situation that broke the already self-destructive group apart, and a WWE championship match where someone has to die, making Clementine's journey a near complete failure.
we're left with a big "now what?" moment that never really gets filled with anything meaningful with the exception of sloppy deaths, random Russians,
Same answer given above. But yes, those deaths were indeed sloppy and proof that the old story is being recklessly discarded in a favor of setting up said championship match.
Also, I didn't think the Russians were that random; they were just a quirky miniboss squad(if even that) that lead to a pointless distraction to wrap things up. Like I said, the Russian group and especially Arvo could've been a morally ambiguous group of sorta antagonists(because hero would be one helluva stretch as they are) had there been more of them or if they were given a chance to be full characters and not just potentially racist archetypes.
rehashed character arcs (Jane and Molly; Kenny and...well, Kenny).
I'd argue that Jane would be a rehashed concept of Molly, since their fairly different once you get past that. For example, Molly was comic book-ish, brash, thin, lighthearted, and a one-shot character, while Jane is closer to earth, pragmatic, "built," dark, and joins the group.
Like others I'm not going to use the phrase "give up" - there was an effort. But the problem was the effort going towards the wrong directio… moren. In my opinion, that moment happens the moment Carver is killed. You just lost your antagonist, your main source of conflict, your goal to escape, and then we're left with a big "now what?" moment that never really gets filled with anything meaningful with the exception of sloppy deaths, random Russians, and rehashed character arcs (Jane and Molly; Kenny and...well, Kenny).
Very well put, Kenny in season 2 was like a black hole stealing the light from nearby stars and casting the entire sector of space into darkness. We have been over this....his inclusion took important character development from the cabin group because the writers had a character that people liked from S1. The fact that they did not even feel compelled to explain how Kenny escaped points more to the fact that the ready made character was a crutch that they were going to hedge the season on. It always struck me as completely wasted time even meeting the cabin group if we were just going to have the Kenny show. Why not have her find the ski lodge with some random bozo who gets killed on the train bridge than invest time on a group they had no idea what to do with.
Sarah, not a fan of her..however she was so wasted...you might as well not even met her as nothing you say to her in episode 2 seems to matter. She never learns to use a gun...your friendship seems forced at best or at worse you are playing her like a harp. Carlos...he is a doctor...what else do we know about him? we didn't really she a tear for Carlos. Nick...last time we talk to him really is when we give him Pete's watch...oh and tell him about Matthew....then he is forgotten until you find him dead stuck in the fence...nice death idiot. Rebekka's claim to fame is she got knocked up...maybe by Carver...but she is so cold and prickley we never really get to warm up and know her other than telling her she will be a good mom...even then it is not earned, it is something we just felt you said to pregnant women.
Luke got some development...a likable guy and we were sad when he died. Jane had some development...we knew she had a sister...that she was with a group in DC and that she is the oil to Kenny's water.
Wasted characters...wasted scenes...a fight between two people who if they had been in Rick Grimes group would have either been exiled or shot.
Carver...a villain of the week...it is like they read a cliffs notes version of the Governor and that was it. Troy..he got shot in the dick...why? The Devs said he had abbused Jane maybe? If they have to explain that out of the game then there is a problem with your story's narrative. Important information like that needs to be told so that you just do not think she is a vicious bitch.
Sorry I am preaching again...I will say this..there is a lot in s2 I love, and with the way Batman is shaping up..I feel good about Season 3.
More like Kenny hijacked the season. With the unlikely assistance of Jane. In fact, they made the season their bitch and then fought over wh… moreo deserves it more.
If you guys enjoyed Kenny on his own, that's perfectly fine. After all, he needed to do that at some point or else his inclusion would've been pointless. But the truth of the matter is he's a crutch made of nostalgia and "fanservice" that was used to cover up the flaws of the Season, when in reality it only made them more apparent, exacerbated some of them, and even added more.
Jane wasn't much better (as an obvious gimmick) in my opinion, but at least she was quickly developed into a character in her own right, had moments where her presence was actually necessary/useful, was used to help mutually develop other characters, and stayed in the fucking background when she wasn't. Kenny himself was at his worst in episode 3 because he barely did any of this, but at least he was toned… [view original content]
More like Kenny hijacked the season. With the unlikely assistance of Jane. In fact, they made the season their bitch and then fought over wh… moreo deserves it more.
If you guys enjoyed Kenny on his own, that's perfectly fine. After all, he needed to do that at some point or else his inclusion would've been pointless. But the truth of the matter is he's a crutch made of nostalgia and "fanservice" that was used to cover up the flaws of the Season, when in reality it only made them more apparent, exacerbated some of them, and even added more.
Jane wasn't much better (as an obvious gimmick) in my opinion, but at least she was quickly developed into a character in her own right, had moments where her presence was actually necessary/useful, was used to help mutually develop other characters, and stayed in the fucking background when she wasn't. Kenny himself was at his worst in episode 3 because he barely did any of this, but at least he was toned… [view original content]
Ehhhh I'm going to argue with you on the Molly bit. Yeah, I agree they rehashed the concept more than the arc in that they're both adult women who lost their younger sister due to a physical or mental illness and as a result become independent lone-wolf action females with developed tricks to get past hordes of walkers, but who also have soft spot for clementine, don't get along with Kenny, and leave the group at the end of episode 4, and... that's still very similar, actually.
The main difference between them, I think, is that Molly is entirely anti-Crawford in her ideaology while Jane is not. I don't agree with your characterization of Molly as a thin light-hearted one-shot character. "Light-hearted" maybe as she tries to crack more jokes than Jane, but she is not light-hearted as a concept. Her background is even more traumatic than Jane's, having to hide her sister's illness from the people who are protecting her, and selling her body in order to keep it that way. Then her sister is dragged off and killed and Molly is powerless to stop it - unlike Jane, who was within the power to keep her sister from dying. And this is where they do branch off; depsite being a loner, Molly still has empathy for the people that are considered "liabilities" because her sister was one and she would have done anything to save her. Jane tries to disance herself from "liabilities" because her sister was one and she didn't do everything she could have to save her.
And it's not like Molly being a one-shot character is a bad thing - Jane might have been better off staying a one-shot character too. If Clementine didn't have a gaurdian at the time, I think Molly might have been compelled to with her stay too, but since the first Season actually still had focus with thier characters and the story they wanted to tell, Molly served just fine in a supporting role in episode 4 and didn't distract from the main relationship between Lee and Clem in episode 5. But since Season 2 had seemingly less focus, Jane just added another thread of subplot that didn't tie as neatly in to the rest of it.
But the problem was the effort going towards the wrong direction.
That's another great way of putting it.
In my opinion, that … moremoment happens the moment Carver is killed. You just lost your antagonist, your main source of conflict, your goal to escape, and then we're left with a big "now what?" moment
To be fair, I think a story that kills off it's main antagonist after the halfway point is an interesting risk to take, but its exactly that--a risk.
Though, my understanding of Season 2's plot was "Clementine helps a group of refugees escape the tyranny of an evil settlement leader and make their way to safety." That should've been enough room to create an after the fact plot to finish the Season, but what we got instead half-assed(or even quartered) that idea in favor of another wasted plot involving a nebulous Russian group, which in turn lead to a hostage situation that broke the already self-destructive group apart, a… [view original content]
then they outsourced their writers for Episode 4, cough cough, J.T. Petty.
And you do remember Telltale writer Eric Stirpe also wrot… moree that episode as well right? And having outside writers come in isn't necessarily a problem, they did the EXACT same thing with Season 1. Oh wait, I forgot, Season 1 is perfect and when they did it, it was fine, but when Season 2 did it, it was terrible, I forgot how these forums work. Not to mention it also worked with Anthony Burch for TFTBL.
They had a good villain that they killed way way too early, and the main plot was just at that point lost... and it was still lost, and then it was suddenly remembered in Ep.5...Honestly they rushed this season quite hard, it's noticeable, Hell... they even forget the things like adding the episode title for No Going Back... and I just noticed a couple days ago because some Youtuber used those as thumbnails for his videos, but for No going back he had to make his own... poorly...
I wish we had threads like "Shame on you Telltale" again...
We have been over this....his inclusion took important character development from the cabin group because the writers had a character that people liked from S1.
At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, its less that he took development from them and more that he got way more screentime than they got developed. Which you could argue is the same damn thing, so derp.
The fact that they did not even feel compelled to explain how Kenny escaped points more to the fact that the ready made character was a crutch that they were going to hedge the season on.
Hence another reason why Sarita is so wasted.
It always struck me as completely wasted time even meeting the cabin group if we were just going to have the Kenny show. Why not have her find the ski lodge with some random bozo who gets killed on the train bridge than invest time on a group they had no idea what to do with.
And that's what bugs me about this: You can have both! My expectations was that Kenny was gonna be a supportive mentor figure for Clementine as she helps the Cabin Group get away from Carver. What we got instead put him over pretty much everyone else.
Sarah, not a fan of her..however she was so wasted...you might as well not even met her as nothing you say to her in episode 2 seems to matter.
What's so mindboggling about that to me is that, as I've probably mentioned three or four times now, she pretty much fills a similar niche that Kenny did in Season 1. The fact that she is pretty much aborted in favor of having only Jane is a tad jarring.
Also, there are a number of differences in her behavior and actions depending on both if you're friends and how you treat her. But I get your point.
She never learns to use a gun...
Nooo, technically she does learn to use a gun--she just never gets the chance to use one even though there's a pretty blatant opportunity for her to do so.SLOPPY! SLOPPY! SLOPPY!
we didn't really she a tear for Carlos.
Okay, he is an example of someone Kenny helped steal development from since Kenny's introduction coincided with him, Alvin, and to a degree Luke being scaled into the background, so that the foreshadowing about their backstories ended up being for naughty. And then there's the theory that Kenny's arc was originally his....
Also, when he died putting his trust in Clementine as his daughter's friend, I legitimately wondered,"Why did I not like this guy?" and made my peace with him.
Nick...last time we talk to him really is when we give him Pete's watch...oh and tell him about Matthew....then he is forgotten until you find him dead stuck in the fence...nice death idiot.
Well, you can talk to him a bit in episode 3, it's just that most of the important stuff is in episode 2. Also, the watch is determinate and very easy to miss.
Rebekka's claim to fame is she got knocked up...maybe by Carver...but she is so cold and prickley we never really get to warm up and know her other than telling her she will be a good mom...even then it is not earned, it is something we just felt you said to pregnant women.
Hence why even I think Rebecca is the worst member of the Cabin Group. Like Nick and Sarah, she got an actual established arc in episode 1: "Who's the babydaddy?" So Deep. And, while she did stop being a bitch after episode 1, the problem was that it was too abrupt and sudden, meaning that it barely registers as character development. Even Nick got an"Oh. He died." from me on my first playthrough and that was just because I almost forgot he was a thing.
Troy..he got shot in the dick...why? The Devs said he had abbused Jane maybe? If they have to explain that out of the game then there is a problem with your story's narrative. Important information like that needs to be told so that you just do not think she is a vicious bitch.
Ironically enough, I actually prefer that not be in the game. And not for the reason you might think.
Very well put, Kenny in season 2 was like a black hole stealing the light from nearby stars and casting the entire sector of space into dark… moreness. We have been over this....his inclusion took important character development from the cabin group because the writers had a character that people liked from S1. The fact that they did not even feel compelled to explain how Kenny escaped points more to the fact that the ready made character was a crutch that they were going to hedge the season on. It always struck me as completely wasted time even meeting the cabin group if we were just going to have the Kenny show. Why not have her find the ski lodge with some random bozo who gets killed on the train bridge than invest time on a group they had no idea what to do with.
Sarah, not a fan of her..however she was so wasted...you might as well not even met her as nothing you say to her in episode 2 seems to matter. She never learns to use a gun...… [view original content]
My gosh you kenny haters are UNBEARABLE. You guys literally have to mention how much you hate kenny in any time possible. Its hard not to stereotype you guys similar to how vegans got stereotyped, how you always have to imply and show that you hate Kenny. And don't say that jane haters or kenny fans are unbearable aswell because I know someone would say or think that, because yes they are, but certainly not as much as you guys have been doing. I havn't even seen any Kenny fans, they probably are on here but clearly they dont mention they are as they dont have to say in any time they can how much jane is a bad character and how they like kenny, I rarely see any for a while. Take it down a notch, its a character in a video game, and many people like him even if you dont. We get it, you hate kenny, you dont need to prove it countless times. I hope you people dont bring your kenny hate in real life because thats just sad.
they even forget the things like adding the episode title for No Going Back
Funnily enough, a similar thing happened with No Time Left; they never added the title screen. You got the episode name, but you never got the good old "THE WALKING DEAD" screen anywhere.
Maybe they were just carrying on the tradition with S2
Episode 3... it went downhill from there...
They had a good villain that they killed way way too early, and the main plot was just at tha… moret point lost... and it was still lost, and then it was suddenly remembered in Ep.5...Honestly they rushed this season quite hard, it's noticeable, Hell... they even forget the things like adding the episode title for No Going Back... and I just noticed a couple days ago because some Youtuber used those as thumbnails for his videos, but for No going back he had to make his own... poorly...
I wish we had threads like "Shame on you Telltale" again...
Comments
And you do remember Telltale writer Eric Stirpe also wrote that episode as well right? And having outside writers come in isn't necessarily a problem, they did the EXACT same thing with Season 1. Oh wait, I forgot, Season 1 is perfect and when they did it, it was fine, but when Season 2 did it, it was terrible, I forgot how these forums work. Not to mention it also worked with Anthony Burch for TFTBL.
I wouldn't say that the S2 writers basically 'given up' at some point, but I do feel that the quality of the writing had started to decline mid Episode 3, and had struggled to climb back up at that point on.
I'm not sure about Whitaker but Anthony Burch is a writer for Gearbox that worked as the main writer for Borderlands 2. He could keep consistent and write up to par with regular Telltale writers. J.T Petty has no experience in writing anything The Walking Dead related.
EDIT: I also remember a thread you made a while ago bringing up similar points on JT Petty writing Amid The Ruins. Slightly ironic
Whitta was the go between Skybound and TellTalegames...he made sure that the game stayed true to the Comic...also is a Hollywood screen writer...wrote The Book of Eli.
Yes I know Anthony Burch wrote Borderlands 2 and used to be a writer at Gearbox, but he's still a guest writer who wrote for a Telltale game. They asked him to assist in the writing because of his knowledge and expertise with the subject matter, just as they did with Whitta (who spell check wrongly fixed to Whittaker in my original post) and Petty. If anything, Petty was probably more qualified to write for TWD as he has written and directed several horror films, books, and video games in the past. Now TWD is not a typical horror game, I understand that, but based on his credentials, he probably had more experience in this kind of stuff than Whitta did.
And that thread was almost two years ago, I remember it as I believe it was one of the first threads I ever made when I joined. Yes I did make that thread, and you know what, I regret it, it was wrong for me to call out and shit on his writing abilities for one episode I enjoyed less than other episodes in TWD series.
But why, Whitta has never worked for Skybound either, what would he know about staying true to the comic. And yeah, he is a Hollywood screen writer, who wrote movies such "great" movies like After Earth. He also wrote the original script for Rogue One, but the studio then hired Chris Weitz to rewrite it.
Well for example, the opening to episode 5 following the ending of episode 4 was as unrealistic as an ant lifting a human being up in the air. Realistically when that Russian fired the shot towards whoever, he or she would have died and since everyone seemingly open fired on each other, they would have all killed one another. I just found it stupid how they all survived (the Russians as well at the start) with only what seemed minor injuries (ie. Mike's shoulder, Luke's leg). Also it made no sense how AJ was thrown a fair distance away from where Rebecca was. Everything with that opening was wrong on so many levels from a realistic point of view. It is a game however so...
Outside writers in season 1?
Ep 1- Sean Vanaman
Ep 2 - Mark Darin, Chuck Jordan
Ep3 - Sean Vanaman, Mark Darin (Only the bandit attack scene)
Ep 4 - Gary Whitta
Ep5 - Sean Vanaman
Weren't they all Telltale staff?
They didn't "gave up" and it's kind of naive to say that. The process of Writing an episode is quite different than writing a full game. Even more difficult i would say. You have to outline the big setpieces of the episode, you have to decide which character is involved in what and you have to think, what can possibly happen in the next episodes. The problem of S2 wasn't really the writers, but the time they had, to write the story. On top of that they had the preassure of Writing a Sequel to one of the best Stories in a Videogame.
People like to criticize on S2, because it's easy to see the flaws, but you should also know, Why it is the way it is.
S3 will be different, though. They had the time, to write a cohesive Story and im sure, it will be better than S2.
Well I hope that the extra time is put to good use.
Gary Whitta was not Telltale staff. For both Seasons 1 and 2, they had a guest writer work on the 4th episode.
I hope. But i'm optimistic. TWD is Telltale's best selling ip.
Yeah, admittedly it is something of a messy stretch.
The funny thing is that, taking the confusion between Buricko(bald) and Vitali(crazy) into account from the perspective of Amid the Ruins, when Buricko/Vitali opened fire, everyone would have to duck for cover, which makes since for Clementine and Luke's positions, but not the others. Without that cliffhanger, Vitali/Buricko getting shot by Mike and shooting him back makes some amount of sense if he wasn't using a shotgun and Kenny focusing on Buricko/Vitali kinda makes sense thematically, I guess.Though as for Bonnie teleporting into the woods, unless we're meant to assume she shot Natasha(which doesn't really gel with the fact that Kenny is seemingly blamed for killing her by Buricko/Vitali) and then ran for cover, your guess is as good as mine.
AJ being on the ground suggests that either Kenny, Mike, or Vitali/Buricko may have bump into Rebecca's corpse in the confusion, though how he got as fair as he did is anyone's guess.
Ah thanks didn't know. I certainly felt S1 ep4 was better than S2 ep4 though
Agreed. To a point.
You did well trying to explain the continuity but damn the opening they made was still stupidly unrealistic
Yeeeah, there's only so much you can do about that. I recall deconstructing that scene when writing my Unintentionally Sympathetic example on Arvo(where I made fun of it) and my entry on Sarah and maybe Natasha in your determinant character change thread(where I tried to provide some explanation for AJ being the ground) and that's the basic gist I got.
More like Episode 5.
I don't want to say they "gave up" but it certainly felt like there were certain plot beats and details that had a lot of build up but were either just completely dropped or rushed in favor of getting to the next story bit quickly because they were on a tight schedule or something.
I'm not gonna deny that the game has its problems, but I still think Season Two is still good despite its flaws. I wouldn't say the writers gave up in a sense. They just didn't think certain things all the way through.
Kenny saved this season.
Like others I'm not going to use the phrase "give up" - there was an effort. But the problem was the effort going towards the wrong direction. In my opinion, that moment happens the moment Carver is killed. You just lost your antagonist, your main source of conflict, your goal to escape, and then we're left with a big "now what?" moment that never really gets filled with anything meaningful with the exception of sloppy deaths, random Russians, and rehashed character arcs (Jane and Molly; Kenny and...well, Kenny).
You must be fun at parties...
The credits of episode 5.
Truth or understatement? Why can't I decide?!
More like Kenny hijacked the season. With the unlikely assistance of Jane. In fact, they made the season their bitch and then fought over who deserves it more.
If you guys enjoyed Kenny on his own, that's perfectly fine. After all, he needed to do that at some point or else his inclusion would've been pointless. But the truth of the matter is he's a crutch made of nostalgia and "fanservice" that was used to cover up the flaws of the Season, when in reality it only made them more apparent, exacerbated some of them, and even added more.
Jane wasn't much better (as an obvious gimmick) in my opinion, but at least she was quickly developed into a character in her own right, had moments where her presence was actually necessary/useful, was used to help mutually develop other characters, and stayed in the fucking background when she wasn't. Kenny himself was at his worst in episode 3 because he barely did any of this, but at least he was toned down and learned to follow Sarah and Jane's example when appropriate.
I'm all for entertainment, pandering, and even filler when its appropriate, but I think Kenny being ...well, Kenny was one of the things that made Episode 3 feel as bare as it did. It needs to be enjoyable or at least bloggable(why is that an actual word?) on a wider scope in the long term.
That's another great way of putting it.
To be fair, I think a story that kills off it's main antagonist after the halfway point is an interesting risk to take, but its exactly that--a risk.
Though, my understanding of Season 2's plot was "Clementine helps a group of refugees escape the tyranny of an evil settlement leader and make their way to safety." That should've been enough room to create an after the fact plot to finish the Season, but what we got instead half-assed(or even quartered) that idea in favor of another wasted plot involving a nebulous Russian group, which in turn lead to a hostage situation that broke the already self-destructive group apart, and a WWE championship match where someone has to die, making Clementine's journey a near complete failure.
Same answer given above. But yes, those deaths were indeed sloppy and proof that the old story is being recklessly discarded in a favor of setting up said championship match.
Also, I didn't think the Russians were that random; they were just a quirky miniboss squad(if even that) that lead to a pointless distraction to wrap things up. Like I said, the Russian group and especially Arvo could've been a morally ambiguous group of sorta antagonists(because hero would be one helluva stretch as they are) had there been more of them or if they were given a chance to be full characters and not just potentially racist archetypes.
I'd argue that Jane would be a rehashed concept of Molly, since their fairly different once you get past that. For example, Molly was comic book-ish, brash, thin, lighthearted, and a one-shot character, while Jane is closer to earth, pragmatic, "built," dark, and joins the group.
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Very well put, Kenny in season 2 was like a black hole stealing the light from nearby stars and casting the entire sector of space into darkness. We have been over this....his inclusion took important character development from the cabin group because the writers had a character that people liked from S1. The fact that they did not even feel compelled to explain how Kenny escaped points more to the fact that the ready made character was a crutch that they were going to hedge the season on. It always struck me as completely wasted time even meeting the cabin group if we were just going to have the Kenny show. Why not have her find the ski lodge with some random bozo who gets killed on the train bridge than invest time on a group they had no idea what to do with.
Sarah, not a fan of her..however she was so wasted...you might as well not even met her as nothing you say to her in episode 2 seems to matter. She never learns to use a gun...your friendship seems forced at best or at worse you are playing her like a harp. Carlos...he is a doctor...what else do we know about him? we didn't really she a tear for Carlos. Nick...last time we talk to him really is when we give him Pete's watch...oh and tell him about Matthew....then he is forgotten until you find him dead stuck in the fence...nice death idiot. Rebekka's claim to fame is she got knocked up...maybe by Carver...but she is so cold and prickley we never really get to warm up and know her other than telling her she will be a good mom...even then it is not earned, it is something we just felt you said to pregnant women.
Luke got some development...a likable guy and we were sad when he died. Jane had some development...we knew she had a sister...that she was with a group in DC and that she is the oil to Kenny's water.
Wasted characters...wasted scenes...a fight between two people who if they had been in Rick Grimes group would have either been exiled or shot.
Carver...a villain of the week...it is like they read a cliffs notes version of the Governor and that was it. Troy..he got shot in the dick...why? The Devs said he had abbused Jane maybe? If they have to explain that out of the game then there is a problem with your story's narrative. Important information like that needs to be told so that you just do not think she is a vicious bitch.
Sorry I am preaching again...I will say this..there is a lot in s2 I love, and with the way Batman is shaping up..I feel good about Season 3.
Are you from Florida?
No.
Just because you want people to shut up about Kenny dosen't mean they're going to.
Nope.'
EDIT: Just got that. Man, I'm slow sometimes.
Ehhhh I'm going to argue with you on the Molly bit. Yeah, I agree they rehashed the concept more than the arc in that they're both adult women who lost their younger sister due to a physical or mental illness and as a result become independent lone-wolf action females with developed tricks to get past hordes of walkers, but who also have soft spot for clementine, don't get along with Kenny, and leave the group at the end of episode 4, and... that's still very similar, actually.
The main difference between them, I think, is that Molly is entirely anti-Crawford in her ideaology while Jane is not. I don't agree with your characterization of Molly as a thin light-hearted one-shot character. "Light-hearted" maybe as she tries to crack more jokes than Jane, but she is not light-hearted as a concept. Her background is even more traumatic than Jane's, having to hide her sister's illness from the people who are protecting her, and selling her body in order to keep it that way. Then her sister is dragged off and killed and Molly is powerless to stop it - unlike Jane, who was within the power to keep her sister from dying. And this is where they do branch off; depsite being a loner, Molly still has empathy for the people that are considered "liabilities" because her sister was one and she would have done anything to save her. Jane tries to disance herself from "liabilities" because her sister was one and she didn't do everything she could have to save her.
And it's not like Molly being a one-shot character is a bad thing - Jane might have been better off staying a one-shot character too. If Clementine didn't have a gaurdian at the time, I think Molly might have been compelled to with her stay too, but since the first Season actually still had focus with thier characters and the story they wanted to tell, Molly served just fine in a supporting role in episode 4 and didn't distract from the main relationship between Lee and Clem in episode 5. But since Season 2 had seemingly less focus, Jane just added another thread of subplot that didn't tie as neatly in to the rest of it.
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Episode 3... it went downhill from there...
They had a good villain that they killed way way too early, and the main plot was just at that point lost... and it was still lost, and then it was suddenly remembered in Ep.5...Honestly they rushed this season quite hard, it's noticeable, Hell... they even forget the things like adding the episode title for No Going Back... and I just noticed a couple days ago because some Youtuber used those as thumbnails for his videos, but for No going back he had to make his own... poorly...
I wish we had threads like "Shame on you Telltale" again...
What are you doing, then? Being a guardian over a 2 year old game?
At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, its less that he took development from them and more that he got way more screentime than they got developed. Which you could argue is the same damn thing, so derp.
Hence another reason why Sarita is so wasted.
And that's what bugs me about this: You can have both! My expectations was that Kenny was gonna be a supportive mentor figure for Clementine as she helps the Cabin Group get away from Carver. What we got instead put him over pretty much everyone else.
What's so mindboggling about that to me is that, as I've probably mentioned three or four times now, she pretty much fills a similar niche that Kenny did in Season 1. The fact that she is pretty much aborted in favor of having only Jane is a tad jarring.
Also, there are a number of differences in her behavior and actions depending on both if you're friends and how you treat her. But I get your point.
Nooo, technically she does learn to use a gun--she just never gets the chance to use one even though there's a pretty blatant opportunity for her to do so. SLOPPY! SLOPPY! SLOPPY!
Okay, he is an example of someone Kenny helped steal development from since Kenny's introduction coincided with him, Alvin, and to a degree Luke being scaled into the background, so that the foreshadowing about their backstories ended up being for naughty. And then there's the theory that Kenny's arc was originally his....
Also, when he died putting his trust in Clementine as his daughter's friend, I legitimately wondered,"Why did I not like this guy?" and made my peace with him.
Well, you can talk to him a bit in episode 3, it's just that most of the important stuff is in episode 2. Also, the watch is determinate and very easy to miss.
Hence why even I think Rebecca is the worst member of the Cabin Group. Like Nick and Sarah, she got an actual established arc in episode 1: "Who's the babydaddy?" So Deep. And, while she did stop being a bitch after episode 1, the problem was that it was too abrupt and sudden, meaning that it barely registers as character development. Even Nick got an"Oh. He died." from me on my first playthrough and that was just because I almost forgot he was a thing.
Ironically enough, I actually prefer that not be in the game. And not for the reason you might think.
My gosh you kenny haters are UNBEARABLE. You guys literally have to mention how much you hate kenny in any time possible. Its hard not to stereotype you guys similar to how vegans got stereotyped, how you always have to imply and show that you hate Kenny. And don't say that jane haters or kenny fans are unbearable aswell because I know someone would say or think that, because yes they are, but certainly not as much as you guys have been doing. I havn't even seen any Kenny fans, they probably are on here but clearly they dont mention they are as they dont have to say in any time they can how much jane is a bad character and how they like kenny, I rarely see any for a while. Take it down a notch, its a character in a video game, and many people like him even if you dont. We get it, you hate kenny, you dont need to prove it countless times. I hope you people dont bring your kenny hate in real life because thats just sad.
Funnily enough, a similar thing happened with No Time Left; they never added the title screen. You got the episode name, but you never got the good old "THE WALKING DEAD" screen anywhere.
Maybe they were just carrying on the tradition with S2