No, it's better this way. People tend to like Kenny more than Jane, I feel, so him being the one in power and about to land the killing blow is what makes it more tempting to kill him.
The way I see it, if a decision statistically has an almost even split for each option, Telltale did a great job. I like hard decisions.
No clue who that is. I'm just tired of Kenny and I feel somewhat strongly about it because I feel his addition ruined Season 2. So I'm unhappy with that writer decision, and glad that I can now be sure it won't happen again.
yes!!! yes!!!!!!!! kenny is a disgusting heathen, and i'm so happy about that fact that we can finally rid of him of his dreadful existence. i'm pretty positive that jane didn't think that ken-man would soil his undergarments that much over the fact that she put an infant in a car, i would take her over him any day.
No clue who that is. I'm just tired of Kenny and I feel somewhat strongly about it because I feel his addition ruined Season 2. So I'm unhappy with that writer decision, and glad that I can now be sure it won't happen again.
yes!!! yes!!!!!!!! kenny is a disgusting heathen, and i'm so happy about that fact that we can finally rid of him of his dreadful existence.… more i'm pretty positive that jane didn't think that ken-man would soil his undergarments that much over the fact that she put an infant in a car, i would take her over him any day.
That's not what you made it sound like at all. "To be honest, this is how Telltale should have played it out." "At least if they made Kenny the victim in this part of the fight, it would be a harder choice for players to decide who to save. I guarantee more people would have ended up with Kenny."
I would have shot Jane because she really egged him on even before the AJ reveal. Pulling out the knife, provoking him. Hell even before we crashed she kept crossing the lines. Talking about Sarita and everything. I liked Jane, A LOT, but she brought that on herself. The way I see it is in this (possibly poor) simile: it's like poking a dog repeatedly with a stick then euthanizing it when it bites you. You can't necessarily say the dog's bad when you provoked it in the first place.
it's like poking a dog repeatedly with a stick then euthanizing it when it bites you. You can't necessarily say the dog's bad when you provoked it in the first place.
That's an accurate simile, actually.
Jane was showing a kid that the dog could easily become enraged and hurt anybody beyond persuasion, so that the kid would understand that they had to leave the dog to prevent this.
I would have shot Jane because she really egged him on even before the AJ reveal. Pulling out the knife, provoking him. Hell even before we … morecrashed she kept crossing the lines. Talking about Sarita and everything. I liked Jane, A LOT, but she brought that on herself. The way I see it is in this (possibly poor) simile: it's like poking a dog repeatedly with a stick then euthanizing it when it bites you. You can't necessarily say the dog's bad when you provoked it in the first place.
You know what, accurate simile or not, I think that that's one of the biggest reasons that stunt pissed me off. Jane was always talking about not letting friend drag you down, that you didn't owe them anything, that you need to be ready if someone turns or becomes a threat. And yet, she turns around and forces this little stunt on Clementine and Kenny, which caused her to be right for the wrong reasons(better case than with Sarah) at the cost of risking all of their lives.
She constantly goes on about making choices for yourself only to repeatedly force Clementine into having to make a decision that happens to align with her interests. What the hell?
it's like poking a dog repeatedly with a stick then euthanizing it when it bites you. You can't necessarily say the dog's bad when you provo… moreked it in the first place.
That's an accurate simile, actually.
Jane was showing a kid that the dog could easily become enraged and hurt anybody beyond persuasion, so that the kid would understand that they had to leave the dog to prevent this.
This was a wonderfully detailed post, well done. All points I agree with about Kenny (and sociopathic Jane, re: ditching AJ the second he becomes a liability). It's why I'll choose Kenny every time I play. Better the devil you know, as they say. There is no other ending for me.
I believe that Jane's actions are more justified then Kenny's for the reason that she prompted him to leave three times, and he had the fina… morel say about the course of the game when he refused.
While that is true, it can be argued that Jane, who in my view, had know how Kenny would react in the situation, was putting on a show for Clementine, trying to present herself as the victim and Kenny as the aggressor. It could also be that Jane had simply wanted to prompt Clementine to back her up and demand for Kenny to leave as well, that way she'd have proven her point and successfully managed to get rid of him. Either way, I don't think Jane had requested Kenny to leave because she genuinely wanted the fight to end per say, considering she'd predicted it, but that she just wanted to ensure Kenny had no way of coming back from this, at least in Clem's eyes.
Jane could not leave at that point, because Clementine would be left with a man … [view original content]
(Kenny being a very possessive person who feels a comfort in having Clementine around...
Isn't that exactly Jane too, though? She's clearly not over abandoning her sister and so she sees in Clem a replacement, except one who wants to survive and not be "dragged across states".
And replaying the series now, Jane is very manipulative with Clem. A lot of 'Hey, I worry about Kenny' and that whole 'He's just like Carver' spiel. Always putting doubts into Clem's head, trying to be that little nagging voice because she wants Clem all to herself.
But she is a loner, thinking forever of her own survival before others. The fact that she'd leave a newborn in a truck, IN THE FREEZING COLD, with walkers nearby, proves that plenty.
Well, the final choice would've sucked just as bad.
The issue with the whole rivalry between two super unlikable characters is that we ar… moree relegated to passive participants that hold no real bearing on how the two decide their feud will end.
Imagine if instead of just kind of having a forced clash of people who have little understanding of why they're motivated to hate each other in the first place (I think Kenny hated Jane cause of how she slept with Luke and something about her leaving), Clementine's actions determine the two's relationship in meaningful ways. And that's, of course, assuming Kenny and Jane's inclusion felt organic from the jump to begin with.
I'd like to think having both characters' connection to Clementine clash (Kenny being a very possessive person who feels a comfort in having Clementine around and Jane who has a sense of inspiration found in Clem to better her even if the effects are long-term damage) would yield for a somewhat interesting narrative experience.
Just my thoughts.
Exactly. And regardless of her so called good intentions, she didn't need to do what she did to prove a point to Clem who i'd say could clearly see how Kenny had become without being forced into seeing it. Clem has her own mind and can make her own decisions and Jane just didn't have a right to do that to her which put herself, Clem and AJ in danger when it all could have been avoided. Jane could have gone back to Howe's herself but she wanted Clem to go with her as she didn't want to be alone. It's like with Jaime, she couldn't force her sister to stay alive with her, so forcing Clem to choose between the 2 wasn't right either.
You know what, accurate simile or not, I think that that's one of the biggest reasons that stunt pissed me off. Jane was always talking abou… moret not letting friend drag you down, that you didn't owe them anything, that you need to be ready if someone turns or becomes a threat. And yet, she turns around and forces this little stunt on Clementine and Kenny, which caused her to be right for the wrong reasons(better case than with Sarah) at the cost of risking all of their lives.
She constantly goes on about making choices for yourself only to repeatedly force Clementine into having to make a decision that happens to align with her interests. What the hell?
And yet not enraging the dog in the first place would mean the beast could be/stay tamed and the whole fiasco could have been avoided without putting herself and the 2 children in danger.
it's like poking a dog repeatedly with a stick then euthanizing it when it bites you. You can't necessarily say the dog's bad when you provo… moreked it in the first place.
That's an accurate simile, actually.
Jane was showing a kid that the dog could easily become enraged and hurt anybody beyond persuasion, so that the kid would understand that they had to leave the dog to prevent this.
I believe both of us can agree that Kenny and Jane would not be able to get along, so the latter would have to leave the group for the sake of preventing an alternate fight, right?
What if something happened and Kenny became enraged? There are quite a few scenarios that could lead to this. Clementine accidentally drops the baby and he's crushed; they are ambushed by bandits and the baby is shot; Clementine, to save her own life, has to leave the baby behind and he's devoured by walkers; etc.
I'd be surprised to see in A New Frontier that the three are still alive, that is unless they have settled in some sort of camp with other survivors.
There's no way to ensure that Kenny would not be triggered, because there are a million different situations that could cause this, spontaneously. This is even more likely if we take into account the posibility of his brain being damaged by Carver.
And yet not enraging the dog in the first place would mean the beast could be/stay tamed and the whole fiasco could have been avoided without putting herself and the 2 children in danger.
What if something happened and Kenny became enraged? There are quite a few scenarios that could lead to this. Clementine accidentally drops the baby and he's crushed; they are ambushed by bandits and the baby is shot; Clementine, to save her own life, has to leave the baby behind and he's devoured by walkers; etc.
Ok i have said this a thousand times but i do not mind repeating myself. I just refuse to believe Kenny would ever harm Clem had she acccidentally dropped AJ or whatever because what Kenny did to Jane was in a rage yes but did he know what he was doing? I think he did. He never liked or trusted Jane and i'm sorry but given the fact Clem is also a child and someone he cares about i refuse to accept he would hurt her physically in a deliberate manner. He had many chances to do so such as when Sarita died who he must have cared about more or as a much as the baby and all he ever did was get angry at her, same again when he was sat at the statue. He was a father, he naturally wouldn't just all of a sudden attack a child because he's not like that at all, i think for someone who has always been hell bent on making sure the kids are fed (Motor Inn) and making sure Clem doesn't drink alcohol (campfire scene No Going Back) because she's still a kid shows his concern for her drinking as she's too young.
Anyway i've said my opinion.
There's no way to ensure that Kenny would not be triggered,
And there's no way to ensure that Kenny would be triggered to attack Clem for the reasons i have said before. It's one of those what if moments that we'll never know. If he had ever hurt her deliberately physically before then i may agree with you but he didn't.
The point of this is what i had said. Jane still had no right to force a choice upon Clem especially given that she has her own mind who can see for herself what Kenny is like. Clem should have told Jane what she said to Lee in Crawford when she said "Ben's nice, he's my friend. We don't leave friends behind." Same thing can be applied to Kenny. You can even constantly agree with her in previous scenes about Kenny's actions but she still had no right because it put all of them in danger when the whole thing could have been avoided or at least done differently and done before the fight got out of hand or done at a completely different time instead of where they all happened to be at the time.
Sooo what i'm basically saying good sir is...i disagree with you lol
I believe both of us can agree that Kenny and Jane would not be able to get along, so the latter would have to leave the group for the sake … moreof preventing an alternate fight, right?
What if something happened and Kenny became enraged? There are quite a few scenarios that could lead to this. Clementine accidentally drops the baby and he's crushed; they are ambushed by bandits and the baby is shot; Clementine, to save her own life, has to leave the baby behind and he's devoured by walkers; etc.
I'd be surprised to see in A New Frontier that the three are still alive, that is unless they have settled in some sort of camp with other survivors.
There's no way to ensure that Kenny would not be triggered, because there are a million different situations that could cause this, spontaneously. This is even more likely if we take into account the posibility of his brain being damaged by Carver.
When they're in the truck arguing, you can tell Kenny is reaching his breaking point. And yet, right after they crash, what's the first thing he does? Ask Jane if she's alright. Did he care for her on a personal level? No, but he clearly did not mean her harm and, in fact, trusted her enough to stay put in the truck while he checked around.
So she betrays that trust by leaving a baby outside DURING A BLINDING SNOWSTORM, and instigates a fight.
Kenny may be broken, but he was absolutely right when he called Jane 'deranged'. Any number of things could've happened to AJ while she did her stunt. Clementine, detrimentally, even tells her two or three times to back off and stop. Jane could've, at any point, told Kenny about AJ, instead of stabbing him, shoving her fingers in his wounded eye, etc.
Her death was her own fault, as far as I'm concerned.
What if something happened and Kenny became enraged? There are quite a few scenarios that could lead to this. Clementine accidentally drops … morethe baby and he's crushed; they are ambushed by bandits and the baby is shot; Clementine, to save her own life, has to leave the baby behind and he's devoured by walkers; etc.
Ok i have said this a thousand times but i do not mind repeating myself. I just refuse to believe Kenny would ever harm Clem had she acccidentally dropped AJ or whatever because what Kenny did to Jane was in a rage yes but did he know what he was doing? I think he did. He never liked or trusted Jane and i'm sorry but given the fact Clem is also a child and someone he cares about i refuse to accept he would hurt her physically in a deliberate manner. He had many chances to do so such as when Sarita died who he must have cared about more or as a much as the baby and all he ever did was get angry at her, same again when he was … [view original content]
Yeah, it makes me laugh how certain Jane fans think that just because AJ was inside a car that he was safe when as you said, anything could have happened to him. A gap in the window (sure she left it open to help him breathe, how gracious, except that it still would have made the car cold) and possibly allowed any walkers to have pushed the half opened window through or they could have heard him had he cried sooner than he did. There's no defending what she did. Kenny was no better but none of it would have happened if she hadn't been so stupid.
When they're in the truck arguing, you can tell Kenny is reaching his breaking point. And yet, right after they crash, what's the first thin… moreg he does? Ask Jane if she's alright. Did he care for her on a personal level? No, but he clearly did not mean her harm and, in fact, trusted her enough to stay put in the truck while he checked around.
So she betrays that trust by leaving a baby outside DURING A BLINDING SNOWSTORM, and instigates a fight.
Kenny may be broken, but he was absolutely right when he called Jane 'deranged'. Any number of things could've happened to AJ while she did her stunt. Clementine, detrimentally, even tells her two or three times to back off and stop. Jane could've, at any point, told Kenny about AJ, instead of stabbing him, shoving her fingers in his wounded eye, etc.
Her death was her own fault, as far as I'm concerned.
Comments
No, it's better this way. People tend to like Kenny more than Jane, I feel, so him being the one in power and about to land the killing blow is what makes it more tempting to kill him.
The way I see it, if a decision statistically has an almost even split for each option, Telltale did a great job. I like hard decisions.
haha oh boy
i'm looking forward to seeing where this goes (not really)
No clue who that is. I'm just tired of Kenny and I feel somewhat strongly about it because I feel his addition ruined Season 2. So I'm unhappy with that writer decision, and glad that I can now be sure it won't happen again.
yes!!! yes!!!!!!!! kenny is a disgusting heathen, and i'm so happy about that fact that we can finally rid of him of his dreadful existence. i'm pretty positive that jane didn't think that ken-man would soil his undergarments that much over the fact that she put an infant in a car, i would take her over him any day.
Lot of hate you got there...
If Jane had kept pressing the attack and was going to kill Kenny...probably would have shot her...a group has to have lines they do not cross.
Yep she does doesn't she? Very, very sad outlook
That's not what you made it sound like at all. "To be honest, this is how Telltale should have played it out." "At least if they made Kenny the victim in this part of the fight, it would be a harder choice for players to decide who to save. I guarantee more people would have ended up with Kenny."
That'd be hilarious!
I definitely would have shot Jane.
...that's all I'm gonna say.
Poor Clementine, always has to deal with group conflicts.
I would have shot Jane because she really egged him on even before the AJ reveal. Pulling out the knife, provoking him. Hell even before we crashed she kept crossing the lines. Talking about Sarita and everything. I liked Jane, A LOT, but she brought that on herself. The way I see it is in this (possibly poor) simile: it's like poking a dog repeatedly with a stick then euthanizing it when it bites you. You can't necessarily say the dog's bad when you provoked it in the first place.
That's an accurate simile, actually.
Jane was showing a kid that the dog could easily become enraged and hurt anybody beyond persuasion, so that the kid would understand that they had to leave the dog to prevent this.
You know what, accurate simile or not, I think that that's one of the biggest reasons that stunt pissed me off. Jane was always talking about not letting friend drag you down, that you didn't owe them anything, that you need to be ready if someone turns or becomes a threat. And yet, she turns around and forces this little stunt on Clementine and Kenny, which caused her to be right for the wrong reasons(better case than with Sarah) at the cost of risking all of their lives.
She constantly goes on about making choices for yourself only to repeatedly force Clementine into having to make a decision that happens to align with her interests. What the hell?
This was a wonderfully detailed post, well done. All points I agree with about Kenny (and sociopathic Jane, re: ditching AJ the second he becomes a liability). It's why I'll choose Kenny every time I play. Better the devil you know, as they say. There is no other ending for me.
Isn't that exactly Jane too, though? She's clearly not over abandoning her sister and so she sees in Clem a replacement, except one who wants to survive and not be "dragged across states".
And replaying the series now, Jane is very manipulative with Clem. A lot of 'Hey, I worry about Kenny' and that whole 'He's just like Carver' spiel. Always putting doubts into Clem's head, trying to be that little nagging voice because she wants Clem all to herself.
But she is a loner, thinking forever of her own survival before others. The fact that she'd leave a newborn in a truck, IN THE FREEZING COLD, with walkers nearby, proves that plenty.
Exactly. And regardless of her so called good intentions, she didn't need to do what she did to prove a point to Clem who i'd say could clearly see how Kenny had become without being forced into seeing it. Clem has her own mind and can make her own decisions and Jane just didn't have a right to do that to her which put herself, Clem and AJ in danger when it all could have been avoided. Jane could have gone back to Howe's herself but she wanted Clem to go with her as she didn't want to be alone. It's like with Jaime, she couldn't force her sister to stay alive with her, so forcing Clem to choose between the 2 wasn't right either.
And yet not enraging the dog in the first place would mean the beast could be/stay tamed and the whole fiasco could have been avoided without putting herself and the 2 children in danger.
I believe both of us can agree that Kenny and Jane would not be able to get along, so the latter would have to leave the group for the sake of preventing an alternate fight, right?
What if something happened and Kenny became enraged? There are quite a few scenarios that could lead to this. Clementine accidentally drops the baby and he's crushed; they are ambushed by bandits and the baby is shot; Clementine, to save her own life, has to leave the baby behind and he's devoured by walkers; etc.
I'd be surprised to see in A New Frontier that the three are still alive, that is unless they have settled in some sort of camp with other survivors.
There's no way to ensure that Kenny would not be triggered, because there are a million different situations that could cause this, spontaneously. This is even more likely if we take into account the posibility of his brain being damaged by Carver.
Ok i have said this a thousand times but i do not mind repeating myself. I just refuse to believe Kenny would ever harm Clem had she acccidentally dropped AJ or whatever because what Kenny did to Jane was in a rage yes but did he know what he was doing? I think he did. He never liked or trusted Jane and i'm sorry but given the fact Clem is also a child and someone he cares about i refuse to accept he would hurt her physically in a deliberate manner. He had many chances to do so such as when Sarita died who he must have cared about more or as a much as the baby and all he ever did was get angry at her, same again when he was sat at the statue. He was a father, he naturally wouldn't just all of a sudden attack a child because he's not like that at all, i think for someone who has always been hell bent on making sure the kids are fed (Motor Inn) and making sure Clem doesn't drink alcohol (campfire scene No Going Back) because she's still a kid shows his concern for her drinking as she's too young.
Anyway i've said my opinion.
And there's no way to ensure that Kenny would be triggered to attack Clem for the reasons i have said before. It's one of those what if moments that we'll never know. If he had ever hurt her deliberately physically before then i may agree with you but he didn't.
The point of this is what i had said. Jane still had no right to force a choice upon Clem especially given that she has her own mind who can see for herself what Kenny is like. Clem should have told Jane what she said to Lee in Crawford when she said "Ben's nice, he's my friend. We don't leave friends behind." Same thing can be applied to Kenny. You can even constantly agree with her in previous scenes about Kenny's actions but she still had no right because it put all of them in danger when the whole thing could have been avoided or at least done differently and done before the fight got out of hand or done at a completely different time instead of where they all happened to be at the time.
Sooo what i'm basically saying good sir is...i disagree with you lol
When they're in the truck arguing, you can tell Kenny is reaching his breaking point. And yet, right after they crash, what's the first thing he does? Ask Jane if she's alright. Did he care for her on a personal level? No, but he clearly did not mean her harm and, in fact, trusted her enough to stay put in the truck while he checked around.
So she betrays that trust by leaving a baby outside DURING A BLINDING SNOWSTORM, and instigates a fight.
Kenny may be broken, but he was absolutely right when he called Jane 'deranged'. Any number of things could've happened to AJ while she did her stunt. Clementine, detrimentally, even tells her two or three times to back off and stop. Jane could've, at any point, told Kenny about AJ, instead of stabbing him, shoving her fingers in his wounded eye, etc.
Her death was her own fault, as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, it makes me laugh how certain Jane fans think that just because AJ was inside a car that he was safe when as you said, anything could have happened to him. A gap in the window (sure she left it open to help him breathe, how gracious, except that it still would have made the car cold) and possibly allowed any walkers to have pushed the half opened window through or they could have heard him had he cried sooner than he did. There's no defending what she did. Kenny was no better but none of it would have happened if she hadn't been so stupid.