This decision could be split evenly if presented correctly.
Say, for example, that there is a controversial character in trouble in the last episode, and we are given a choice to save their life or not.
If we do save them, we won't have time to save Clementine, and she will die before our eyes; but if we left them, we will have the option to rescue her and she will survive. However, players who left the controversial character will not be forced to save Clem, either.
Thank god. Someone had to say it. I like Clem, but jesus christ she isn't some all knowing, powerful deity that reigns supreme on any other character in the series. I can't wait for people's opinions on Javier to change, so that we can get rid of these ridiculous clementine enthusiasts. ack.
Ugh, god!
I'm cringing at all this Clementine supremacy posts. For gods sake, Clementine isn't some all-knowing martyr that is better tha… moren everyone. No she won't be unrealistically be saving capable adults. And for god's sake, Javier won't be her bitch.
We don't know how much Javier suffered, maybe he's been suffering from enslavement from the beginning of the apocalypse. Maybe he's been in a comfy hotel since the beginning! We just don't know. What I do know, is that having Clementine acting like a self entitled bitch who thinks knows better than everyone would be the most cringy thing ever, and believe me, you guys wouldn't like that either.
Javier: [Loses his brother]
Clementine: Get used to the feeling, whelp!
Wooooooooow, much badass, Clementine. Such nice. You tell them! -.-
It was a choice that was very necessary for Michonne's character, and how people played her. Its not suppose to be a "smart" decision, its supposed to be selfish or unfair. Not everyone's decisions need to make sense, especially in a situation like that.
It was a choice that was very necessary for Michonne's character, and how people played her. Its not suppose to be a "smart" decision, its s… moreupposed to be selfish or unfair. Not everyone's decisions need to make sense, especially in a situation like that.
The issue was the explicit way that they presented it, which I felt did not accurately portray Michonne's mindset in that very moment.
The choice should have been between hugging her daughters or not, not something from such an outsider perspective such as staying or leaving a burning house; that's simply not what our protagonist was witnessing at the time.
I feel like Telltale's failed design decision somewhat resembles the literary "show, don't tell" rule. They obviously told. That's why this choice is widely considered ludicrous.
It was a choice that was very necessary for Michonne's character, and how people played her. Its not suppose to be a "smart" decision, its s… moreupposed to be selfish or unfair. Not everyone's decisions need to make sense, especially in a situation like that.
How, so? Michonne is an important part of the storyline, and the players have been forming their own personality of how she would deal with her daughters over the three episodes. People may want that satisfaction of a farewell, while others may just want to keep living with the guilt. As a last choice its sort of brilliant in how irrational it is.
Because it's not in anyway a difficult choice. We knew from day one that her daughters weren't real, so why in the world would you stay in a damn burning building with hallucinations?
How, so? Michonne is an important part of the storyline, and the players have been forming their own personality of how she would deal with … moreher daughters over the three episodes. People may want that satisfaction of a farewell, while others may just want to keep living with the guilt. As a last choice its sort of brilliant in how irrational it is.
Because it's not in anyway a difficult choice. We knew from day one that her daughters weren't real, so why in the world would you stay in a damn burning building with hallucinations?
She was clearly out of it. Put yourself in Michonne's situation, someone's screaming in the background, but you can't see that person or hear them. On the otherside are the daughters you abandoned who want a good bye from their mama that they don't even know they'll ever see again. The voice begins to become clear, but your daughters are still there waiting for their mama's goodbye. This is all shown in less than 30 seconds, its a painfully unfair decision in that you abandon your guilt and try to move on or you selfishly gain closure from your daughters even if it means coming back into reality too late.
I'll admit the back and forth between Michonne's hallucinations and reality were overdone, but the actual choice I still stand by as being perfect for Michonne in this series.
The issue was the explicit way that they presented it, which I felt did not accurately portray Michonne's mindset in that very moment.
Th… moree choice should have been between hugging her daughters or not, not something from such an outsider perspective such as staying or leaving a burning house; that's simply not what our protagonist was witnessing at the time.
I feel like Telltale's failed design decision somewhat resembles the literary "show, don't tell" rule. They obviously told. That's why this choice is widely considered ludicrous.
Here's how I think Episode 1 will go...
* Javier playable falshback of beginning of apocalypse.
* Javier goes through a traumatic even… moret.
* Child Clem right as her parents are about to leave her house and her forever.
* Clementine monologue about how life sucks, and how so much has changed.
* Playable flashback right after Season 2 ending, leading to suspenseful event, then cuts off and skips 3 years.
And some other stuffs that we have no clue about yet. XD
Its not supposed to be a difficult choice for the player. Hence why its the last choice. All the big guns were already pulled. I thought it was important for Michonne's character.
Because it's not in anyway a difficult choice. We knew from day one that her daughters weren't real, so why in the world would you stay in a damn burning building with hallucinations?
What I am saying is that, what caused so many people to leave the abandoned house, is that they were explicitly given that option in the first place.
We should not have seen anybody but Elodie, Colette and Dominic from the moment Michonne started hallucinating. We would be given the choice to hug them or not; hugging them would lead to the outcome of staying and refusing would lead to the outcome of leaving.
In this way, just as Michonne did, the players would not even have realized that they were given a relevant decision until after they had picked one of the two options. We would really be able to relate to her.
She was clearly out of it. Put yourself in Michonne's situation, someone's screaming in the background, but you can't see that person or hea… morer them. On the otherside are the daughters you abandoned who want a good bye from their mama that they don't even know they'll ever see again. The voice begins to become clear, but your daughters are still there waiting for their mama's goodbye. This is all shown in less than 30 seconds, its a painfully unfair decision in that you abandon your guilt and try to move on or you selfishly gain closure from your daughters even if it means coming back into reality too late.
I'll admit the back and forth between Michonne's hallucinations and reality were overdone, but the actual choice I still stand by as being perfect for Michonne in this series.
I agree. It was a fitting choice!
What I am saying is that, what caused so many people to leave the abandoned house, is that they were ex… moreplicitly given that option in the first place.
We should not have seen anybody but Elodie, Colette and Dominic from the moment Michonne started hallucinating. We would be given the choice to hug them or not; hugging them would lead to the outcome of staying and refusing would lead to the outcome of leaving.
In this way, just as Michonne did, the players would not even have realized that they were given a relevant decision until after they had picked one of the two options. We would really be able to relate to her.
I get where you're coming from and can understand that for Michonne's character, it's an important and difficult decision, but for the players, who're expecting Telltale to put them in positions where the right answer mightn't always be clear, it's a terribly easy choice. Stay with the hallucinations, who'd become increasingly annoying by that point, possibly to perish in a burning building and have Sam die, or leave and be with the living. Telltale are meant to be dedicated to their decision making games, but with a choice like that, there's no actual decision to be made. It's just pure common sense.
As @BetterToSleep said, there were ways Telltale could've done such a choice and made it work, by presenting it in a way that it wouldn't have been so obvious, but they decided not to do that, and the choice, in my view, fails because of it.
Its not supposed to be a difficult choice for the player. Hence why its the last choice. All the big guns were already pulled. I thought it was important for Michonne's character.
It was a choice that was very necessary for Michonne's character, and how people played her. Its not suppose to be a "smart" decision, its s… moreupposed to be selfish or unfair. Not everyone's decisions need to make sense, especially in a situation like that.
Either scavenging, patrolling, or looking for something in this particular area. Going off what I can see in the background, it actually looks like the scrapyard seen in one of the earlier screenshots. The place looks pretty fortified (well, by apocalypse standards, at least), so maybe it's actually a camp for a small group of survivors that Javier and Clementine are part of? Or maybe it used to be a camp, but was abandoned. I mean, when you think about it, a scrapyard a pretty good place to hole up in; all kinds of scrap you could use to reinforce buildings, walls, etc. Going off what you can see in the background, the place looks pretty ragged. Sheet metal plastered on the walls of the building behind them, the makeshift looking wall in the back, the scrappy looking windmill. Definitely looks like someone was/is trying to fortify the place.
So yeah, I'm thinking either there's a small group of survivors shacked up in... wherever they are, which they are possibly a part of, or they're looking through the remains of a previously-inhabited survivor camp.
They're having a disagreement of some sort. Perhaps Javier's still on his own mission, while Clementine is on one of her own, and Javier's trying to ask for her help/support. Trying to convince her to help him.
So I'm curious:
What do you guys all think is happening in this scene? Because I've got theories just dancing in my head over this thingy and driving me craaaazy.
I see many of us on the forums are really hoping for and looking forward to seeing Clementine's emotional pallet. Seeing Clem have a emotional breakdown would be have a huge impact; seeing her succumb to the wounds of her aching heart would be hard to watch. Along with that though, what if we see Clem lash out in rage? I'm not talking about anything Kenny related. Let's say crap is hitting the fan and Clem and company have to fight through walkers. What if her weariness got the best of her and she starts mutilating a walker out anger? Or imagine a conversation between us as Javier and Clem. We're stuck in a situation trying to figure out what to do. Midway though a heated conversation, Clem just looses it; you can literally hear the pain in her voice as she pounds the way, throws things across the room, and then finally breaks down. Or even a scream, not of fear but of 4 years of built up pain.
Right now, I can only see something like this happening if it involves AJ. He's the only connection to Clementine that can provoke such a response. This won't happen with a person she just met, especially if she is more distant that she has been before. Let's say Clem and Javier are looking for their family; AJ and siblings respectably. The two come across something of AJ's like an overshirt and there is blood. Javier can see that this could be a ruse to get them to stop their pursuit, but all Clem sees is her ultimate failure. You can have the choice to comfort her through various was or to keep silent. Your choice will result in her lashing out at the wall, lashing out at you (both verbally and physically), or a meltdown leading to a scream. This can follow up by various comforting, character-building scenes (depending on you choices) where we for the first time in years see the old child-Clem come out. We hear Clem's heart, her soul, her very being.
This season has the potential to be TellTale's greatest yet. Of course the potential is there for a good story. Anyone can take this journey a make a good story. However, this season can be something that showcases TellTale's ambitions, skills, and individuality. I'm looking forward to this season. It's about to get interesting.
Both you and @freelancepolicefan11 appear to agree that forcing Michonne to confront this decision was the correct narrative step, and I coincide as well. It just seems natural that her emotional trauma would reach a breaking point in the finale.
The point of disagreement is whether this decision has got to be immersive for the player as well in order to be considered an overall succesful choice. Freelance believes that this is not necessary, while you and I believe that it is.
I get where you're coming from and can understand that for Michonne's character, it's an important and difficult decision, but for the playe… morers, who're expecting Telltale to put them in positions where the right answer mightn't always be clear, it's a terribly easy choice. Stay with the hallucinations, who'd become increasingly annoying by that point, possibly to perish in a burning building and have Sam die, or leave and be with the living. Telltale are meant to be dedicated to their decision making games, but with a choice like that, there's no actual decision to be made. It's just pure common sense.
As @BetterToSleep said, there were ways Telltale could've done such a choice and made it work, by presenting it in a way that it wouldn't have been so obvious, but they decided not to do that, and the choice, in my view, fails because of it.
Exactly. I do believe some people are forgetting that technically Clementine is still only a kid and certainty won't be as capable as some m… moreight want to think. Not saying she'll be incompetent, but to say she'll be some ultimate badass is definitely a stretch.
His parent(s) first... Then his siblings...
Also, is that his sister and brother in the screenshot?
Wow, I just noticed... That dead Walker there is marked with the Caprikorn thing.
I couldn't agree more. I'm very excited for this season, there is so many possibilities for Clem. She is a teenager now, and teenagers tend to be more emotional. Clementine has suppressed her anguish and misery for a long time, and now can be the time she finally breaks. It would be such a powerful scene, for Clem to be having an emotional breakdown, opening up about her heartbreaking past to Javier. I know that Season 3 will be one of Telltale's greatest works yet, and I seriously cannot wait to experience this season.
I see many of us on the forums are really hoping for and looking forward to seeing Clementine's emotional pallet. Seeing Clem have a emotio… morenal breakdown would be have a huge impact; seeing her succumb to the wounds of her aching heart would be hard to watch. Along with that though, what if we see Clem lash out in rage? I'm not talking about anything Kenny related. Let's say crap is hitting the fan and Clem and company have to fight through walkers. What if her weariness got the best of her and she starts mutilating a walker out anger? Or imagine a conversation between us as Javier and Clem. We're stuck in a situation trying to figure out what to do. Midway though a heated conversation, Clem just looses it; you can literally hear the pain in her voice as she pounds the way, throws things across the room, and then finally breaks down. Or even a scream, not of fear but of 4 years of built up pain.
Right now, I can only see something … [view original content]
Do you think that was a member of his family?
It looks nearly identical to the Walker in the trailer... Then again, they do reuse the same Walker models a lot.
Oh, okay...
Hey, do you think in that screenshot, they're in the same place as this new screenshot?
Because the mountains in the back look sort of similar, and it looks a little scrappy.
In the first junkyard screenshot (the one with Javier and the other two people) if you look closely, you can see a window and roof of a building right in between Javier and the other guy!
This is probably nothing but I thought I should point it out.
His parent(s) first... Then his siblings...
Also, is that his sister and brother in the screenshot?
Wow, I just noticed... That dead Walker there is marked with the Caprikorn thing.
Thank god. Someone had to say it. I like Clem, but jesus christ she isn't some all knowing, powerful deity that reigns supreme on any other … morecharacter in the series. I can't wait for people's opinions on Javier to change, so that we can get rid of these ridiculous clementine enthusiasts. ack.
Actually, it's because they're all the same walker model as the one in the teaser trailer. I don't think they had any other walker models finished when they did the trailer/screenshots.
Oh, thank you! I thought I was the only one who thought that. Some people don't understand that from a narrative perspective of a character, (Michonne) they would be torn between what they thought was real (she was under a lot of mental trauma at the time..) and saving herself. I chose the satying choice, because to me, it made sense for the character at the time.
It was a choice that was very necessary for Michonne's character, and how people played her. Its not suppose to be a "smart" decision, its s… moreupposed to be selfish or unfair. Not everyone's decisions need to make sense, especially in a situation like that.
Actually, it's because they're all the same walker model as the one in the teaser trailer. I don't think they had any other walker models finished when they did the trailer/screenshots.
i am looking forwards to see the next part of the story of clementine. we saw saw she as a sweet nature child with amazing cute moments, we see her next growing into a badass, a strong female that face fear and remain mostly carm.
i am looking forwards to see the next part of the story of clementine. we saw saw she as a sweet nature child with amazing cute moments, we … moresee her next growing into a badass, a strong female that face fear and remain mostly carm.
i cant wait see the next chapter in her life.
Idk about her telling Aj but I think she'll tell Javier about Lee. I think she'll tell Javier about Lee when he loses his family to motivate him how his family would always want him to continue and look after his remaining family (as Lee would want Clemmy to continue)
First of all, 100% agree about seeing Clem grow into a badass. Legit when she appears on screen in s3 I will weep happy tears
Second, I miss those dance off videos. TWDG s2 fandom was a weird time
Comments
Yeah, he just kept complaining that it was "boring", I didn't think the game was bad, it was decent, just not as good as the previous two seasons.
This decision could be split evenly if presented correctly.
Say, for example, that there is a controversial character in trouble in the last episode, and we are given a choice to save their life or not.
If we do save them, we won't have time to save Clementine, and she will die before our eyes; but if we left them, we will have the option to rescue her and she will survive. However, players who left the controversial character will not be forced to save Clem, either.
Thank god. Someone had to say it. I like Clem, but jesus christ she isn't some all knowing, powerful deity that reigns supreme on any other character in the series. I can't wait for people's opinions on Javier to change, so that we can get rid of these ridiculous clementine enthusiasts. ack.
It was a choice that was very necessary for Michonne's character, and how people played her. Its not suppose to be a "smart" decision, its supposed to be selfish or unfair. Not everyone's decisions need to make sense, especially in a situation like that.
I guess you're right... But the poor baby...
I would probably save Clementine.
Yeah, but from a game perspective, it was a terrible choice for players.
The issue was the explicit way that they presented it, which I felt did not accurately portray Michonne's mindset in that very moment.
The choice should have been between hugging her daughters or not, not something from such an outsider perspective such as staying or leaving a burning house; that's simply not what our protagonist was witnessing at the time.
I feel like Telltale's failed design decision somewhat resembles the literary "show, don't tell" rule. They obviously told. That's why this choice is widely considered ludicrous.
How, so? Michonne is an important part of the storyline, and the players have been forming their own personality of how she would deal with her daughters over the three episodes. People may want that satisfaction of a farewell, while others may just want to keep living with the guilt. As a last choice its sort of brilliant in how irrational it is.
Because it's not in anyway a difficult choice. We knew from day one that her daughters weren't real, so why in the world would you stay in a damn burning building with hallucinations?
The choice itself isn't bad; it's the way it was presented.
I talk about this on the comment below.
She was clearly out of it. Put yourself in Michonne's situation, someone's screaming in the background, but you can't see that person or hear them. On the otherside are the daughters you abandoned who want a good bye from their mama that they don't even know they'll ever see again. The voice begins to become clear, but your daughters are still there waiting for their mama's goodbye. This is all shown in less than 30 seconds, its a painfully unfair decision in that you abandon your guilt and try to move on or you selfishly gain closure from your daughters even if it means coming back into reality too late.
I'll admit the back and forth between Michonne's hallucinations and reality were overdone, but the actual choice I still stand by as being perfect for Michonne in this series.
Man, that would be emotional torment right out the gates.
Its not supposed to be a difficult choice for the player. Hence why its the last choice. All the big guns were already pulled. I thought it was important for Michonne's character.
I agree. It was a fitting choice!
What I am saying is that, what caused so many people to leave the abandoned house, is that they were explicitly given that option in the first place.
We should not have seen anybody but Elodie, Colette and Dominic from the moment Michonne started hallucinating. We would be given the choice to hug them or not; hugging them would lead to the outcome of staying and refusing would lead to the outcome of leaving.
In this way, just as Michonne did, the players would not even have realized that they were given a relevant decision until after they had picked one of the two options. We would really be able to relate to her.
Yeah, it could have been executed better, but I think what we got still worked.
I get where you're coming from and can understand that for Michonne's character, it's an important and difficult decision, but for the players, who're expecting Telltale to put them in positions where the right answer mightn't always be clear, it's a terribly easy choice. Stay with the hallucinations, who'd become increasingly annoying by that point, possibly to perish in a burning building and have Sam die, or leave and be with the living. Telltale are meant to be dedicated to their decision making games, but with a choice like that, there's no actual decision to be made. It's just pure common sense.
As @BetterToSleep said, there were ways Telltale could've done such a choice and made it work, by presenting it in a way that it wouldn't have been so obvious, but they decided not to do that, and the choice, in my view, fails because of it.
I don't mean story wise. I mean gameplay wise, it was an awful choice
Either scavenging, patrolling, or looking for something in this particular area. Going off what I can see in the background, it actually looks like the scrapyard seen in one of the earlier screenshots. The place looks pretty fortified (well, by apocalypse standards, at least), so maybe it's actually a camp for a small group of survivors that Javier and Clementine are part of? Or maybe it used to be a camp, but was abandoned. I mean, when you think about it, a scrapyard a pretty good place to hole up in; all kinds of scrap you could use to reinforce buildings, walls, etc. Going off what you can see in the background, the place looks pretty ragged. Sheet metal plastered on the walls of the building behind them, the makeshift looking wall in the back, the scrappy looking windmill. Definitely looks like someone was/is trying to fortify the place.
So yeah, I'm thinking either there's a small group of survivors shacked up in... wherever they are, which they are possibly a part of, or they're looking through the remains of a previously-inhabited survivor camp.
They're having a disagreement of some sort. Perhaps Javier's still on his own mission, while Clementine is on one of her own, and Javier's trying to ask for her help/support. Trying to convince her to help him.
I see many of us on the forums are really hoping for and looking forward to seeing Clementine's emotional pallet. Seeing Clem have a emotional breakdown would be have a huge impact; seeing her succumb to the wounds of her aching heart would be hard to watch. Along with that though, what if we see Clem lash out in rage? I'm not talking about anything Kenny related. Let's say crap is hitting the fan and Clem and company have to fight through walkers. What if her weariness got the best of her and she starts mutilating a walker out anger? Or imagine a conversation between us as Javier and Clem. We're stuck in a situation trying to figure out what to do. Midway though a heated conversation, Clem just looses it; you can literally hear the pain in her voice as she pounds the way, throws things across the room, and then finally breaks down. Or even a scream, not of fear but of 4 years of built up pain.
Right now, I can only see something like this happening if it involves AJ. He's the only connection to Clementine that can provoke such a response. This won't happen with a person she just met, especially if she is more distant that she has been before. Let's say Clem and Javier are looking for their family; AJ and siblings respectably. The two come across something of AJ's like an overshirt and there is blood. Javier can see that this could be a ruse to get them to stop their pursuit, but all Clem sees is her ultimate failure. You can have the choice to comfort her through various was or to keep silent. Your choice will result in her lashing out at the wall, lashing out at you (both verbally and physically), or a meltdown leading to a scream. This can follow up by various comforting, character-building scenes (depending on you choices) where we for the first time in years see the old child-Clem come out. We hear Clem's heart, her soul, her very being.
This season has the potential to be TellTale's greatest yet. Of course the potential is there for a good story. Anyone can take this journey a make a good story. However, this season can be something that showcases TellTale's ambitions, skills, and individuality. I'm looking forward to this season. It's about to get interesting.
Which member of Javier's family do you think will die?
His parent(s) first... Then his siblings...
Also, is that his sister and brother in the screenshot?
Wow, I just noticed... That dead Walker there is marked with the Caprikorn thing.
Both you and @freelancepolicefan11 appear to agree that forcing Michonne to confront this decision was the correct narrative step, and I coincide as well. It just seems natural that her emotional trauma would reach a breaking point in the finale.
The point of disagreement is whether this decision has got to be immersive for the player as well in order to be considered an overall succesful choice. Freelance believes that this is not necessary, while you and I believe that it is.
Agree. She's just a kid ... Besides, children (as Clem) always consider themselves to the best, especially teenagers, She's only 13.
You're entirely right!
I couldn't agree more. I'm very excited for this season, there is so many possibilities for Clem. She is a teenager now, and teenagers tend to be more emotional. Clementine has suppressed her anguish and misery for a long time, and now can be the time she finally breaks. It would be such a powerful scene, for Clem to be having an emotional breakdown, opening up about her heartbreaking past to Javier. I know that Season 3 will be one of Telltale's greatest works yet, and I seriously cannot wait to experience this season.
Do you think that was a member of his family?
It looks nearly identical to the Walker in the trailer... Then again, they do reuse the same Walker models a lot.
It's the same exact model. So are the one's in the slaughter house. They're all the same.
Oh, okay...
Hey, do you think in that screenshot, they're in the same place as this new screenshot?
Because the mountains in the back look sort of similar, and it looks a little scrappy.
Due to it being different times of the day and totally different junk yards I don't think it's the same place.
Wait a minute, I just noticed.
In the first junkyard screenshot (the one with Javier and the other two people) if you look closely, you can see a window and roof of a building right in between Javier and the other guy!
This is probably nothing but I thought I should point it out.
The branded walkers are all emaciated... Does this hint at Caprikorn Farms starving prisoners or something?
All knowing and powerful? ROFL no no that's not Clementine. Not at all. You must be kidding me right?
It's Kenny
runs away before angry mob
Maybe... I sort of thought all Walkers looked like that though...
Actually, it's because they're all the same walker model as the one in the teaser trailer. I don't think they had any other walker models finished when they did the trailer/screenshots.
Oh, thank you! I thought I was the only one who thought that. Some people don't understand that from a narrative perspective of a character, (Michonne) they would be torn between what they thought was real (she was under a lot of mental trauma at the time..) and saving herself. I chose the satying choice, because to me, it made sense for the character at the time.
That explains it. Don't know how I didn't notice that, haha...
i am looking forwards to see the next part of the story of clementine. we saw saw she as a sweet nature child with amazing cute moments, we see her next growing into a badass, a strong female that face fear and remain mostly carm.
i cant wait see the next chapter in her life.
First of all, 100% agree about seeing Clem grow into a badass. Legit when she appears on screen in s3 I will weep happy tears
Second, I miss those dance off videos. TWDG s2 fandom was a weird time
Idk about her telling Aj but I think she'll tell Javier about Lee. I think she'll tell Javier about Lee when he loses his family to motivate him how his family would always want him to continue and look after his remaining family (as Lee would want Clemmy to continue)
No kidding. I'll cry like a little bitch when I see Clem again. It would be the moment I'll never forget.