Playing as a new character simply does not work
You can't do this, Telltale. It simply does not make sense from a player standpoint. Our loyalties are divided.
We've endured one good season and one really poorly written season with Clementine. Now you're going for a third season, and now you're asking us to play as a different character entirely? With a family of his own, and a backstory, and all of that? I DO NOT GIVE EVEN THE TINIEST LITTLE MICROFUCK ABOUT JAVIER. Because the player is put into a position not to care about him. He's just some douche with a crappy family. I didn't play this game to learn about this dipshit and his shitty baseball cheating. I came here for Clementine, you know, the character we've been playing with since S1? As a player, what decisions am I going to make? Decisions that benefit Javier and his brother's kids - oops, scratch that, kid, singular, because pointless plot death? Or am I going to make the decisions that benefit Clementine because that's the character I actually give a shit about?
The player's and the new main character's loyalties simply do not match up. Nobody saw this in the planning stage? Nobody went "well, yeah, but a lot of the players are..." Nobody? Really? What a horrorshow. At least some planning seemed to have gone into this, which is more than can be said for S2.
Also, the "bad guys form a gang and go terrorizing people" is just so overplayed and lame, it hurts. It's a recycled version of a recycled plot device that comes up when Kirkman runs out of ideas. Governor, Carver, Negan, we get it, really. People act like dicks, people get shot, some guys drive around with a bus full of zombies because reasons and the plot has to move forward. Oh, and the zombies don't attack them. Because nobody bothered thinking about that part.
S2's episodes were written by too many cooks. The two episodes of S3 we've gotten so far look like they were written by committee. A dumb committee.
Comments
I feel it could work if they hadnt included clementine or at least included her so early. Now like season 2 most fans have little reason to choose anyone other than the established character. Also if they actually let the characters develop a bit outside of action scenes there might be something there as well.
Unfortunately even without this they've backed themselves into a corner by always killing the entire cast every season and with choice not mattering either people are really struggling to care about new characters, most if not all will die and often in poor ways. I mean what is the point in caring about these new people. The kenny/jane flashback isnt just five minutes it sours any slight interest people have in getting to know new characters, as the way past characters are just discarded.
Exactly as other people point out. The problem lies in having both Clem and Javier in the same game. -We are too biased towards Clem. -We have more knowledge than the main character Javi of the world (meaning Clem) than he himself thus making us play out of character or doing dumb stuff because we know Clem is Clem.
-Trying to make a new appealing story while shoehorning Clementine to connect with Javi doesn't work very well... much less in the new "one sitting" lenght episodes that barely give you time to have a proper conversation making character and relationship development unnaturally fast IE Tripp "Idk man you are the boss" Wut??
Maybe TTG wanted to make Javi's story all along and they gave in thinking people would be outraged if Clem wasn't in the game so they changed direction mid development... Maybe something shady is happening in the backstage and this was a rushed mess of a game, maybe the new writers are unispired/not really engaged in making a good game. Whatever the case there is just this something about the Clem/Javi relationship that sticks out like a sore thumb.
Personally I think Javi is really cool has a lot of potential as a character and I wish we'd go that way because I honestly don't know where could Clem's character possibly go next... specially so in a backseat role.
I think that's completely untrue. Javier's a great character and I love playing as him. Though disappointedly some players are unrealistically over protective of Clementine but I think it still works.
Criticism of the episode is fine, but please avoid personal insults towards staff members (even if jokingly).
In case it needs to be said, this applies to anyone who worked on the game, and not just Telltale staff members.
You're still getting Clem. She's just in a different role this time.
Try to appreciate the additional time you've been given with her. They didn't have to put her in the season, but they did.
Maybe it's time people stop being stuck on the idea that The Walking Dead world revolves around Clementine and stop comparing new characters to her. I enjoyed playing as Lee and especially as Javier twice as much as i did Clementine, but that doesn't mean i don't care about her. Clementine shouldn't have to be excluded from a game entirely in order to get the players to like the new main character. There should be nothing wrong with Clementine sharing the screen with someone else while they take the driver's seat and Clem is the passenger. I'm so sick and tired of people saying that they're going to make all they're decisions pro Clem because they care about her while they don't care about Javier. People care about Clementine because they got to see her story grow and progress but can't be bothered to give Javier and his story the same courtesy and the same time to grow and progress because they're too busy stuck up on Clementine.
Javier is just such a bland character.
Lee was someone we slowly learned about through fairly well delivered expository dialogue and was someone who could reflect the tensions of being in a newly changed world. Trying to turn over a new leaf for others and even help a child reunited with her family, all the while letting us control how she could perceive the hostilities of the world.
The next season we were the child, now lost and alone in a ever-present world of death. Trying to straddle along and keep some level of decency. However, it was also more about resourcefulness and keeping sharp. Seemingly blurring the lines of good and bad...
Then No Going Back happened, and it was about out-idioting everyone else, but I digress.
Now we play largely a character who's entire backstory is explained within the first 6 minutes and who has expository machines disguised as people telling stories of yesteryear and smoking the dankest OG kush. It's so much less emotionally engaging cause we feel there's nothing to really be learned from the characters, so there's nothing to really be appreciated either.
And, on top of that, the choices aren't challenging. Shoot man who is in a group who has a woman we don't know hostage? Shoot another man who is holding someone else we really don't know hostage?
So many choices of violence that lead to little across gameplay paths make me feel the creative well is starting to run dry. Long gone are the days of little choices like who to feed or not to feed, leave someone behind who has just committed a nearly unforgivable act, etc. etc.
You are right. Also I agree with someone above that they should have introduced clem later if this is the route they were taking.
Yikesyikesyikesyikes
I don't mind her sharing the screen with Javier. It's annoying how much of the screen he's hogging, though.
But he's not hogging it. It's HIS story! Again, people need to get over the fact that Clementine isn't the main focus of this season and realize that she doesn't always have to be the star. She should be able to be a supporting character without people complaining about it.
Then make it his story, and don't include a character who's going to overshadow him just because you want more people buying the game. She was a major character in two games in the series, its ridiculous the defense rolls out saying a continuation of a franchise is fine dropping a cliffhanger ending in one game and starting a new story in the next. The TV show managed to do it without replacing the original series.
Meh, at least he's more interesting than Clementine.
Is he though?
Well, I suppose Clementine never smoked OG dankest Kush 420 4 lyfe #smokestyle.
That. Shit. Killed. Me.
I had ZERO problems playing as Javier.
i don't think playing as a new character is the problem, it's just distracting having clem there because people are already so attached to her, and makes javier seem less interesting in comparison. if they want to take a shot, and focus on someone else's story, fine. but go all the way with it. having clementine added in makes it hard for me to care for other characters since we already have history with her.
that, and the reluctance to get attached to any characters since a lot of them will probably die.
It gave me a horrible case of ebola.
Double post. god dammit.
You know how Javier would have worked well?
They should have introduced his character in a Season 3 where we played as Clem first, to not break the pattern to suddenly. This could be as a more or less supporting character, there would have been many ways to do it.
After that we should have played him in a "origin" type of story where we learn about him and shape him as the outbreak happens, I mean no one can ignore those 4 years that just passed, that's dumb.
Then we could have moved on to the Clem-partnership story.
I think playing as a new character simply does not work, but I can understand why people would want too
Fixed
I don't know, I'm incredibly over protective of Clementine, but I absolutely love Javier.
They should have had one episode dedicated to this new player, and the next to Clementine, and then in episode 3 (or later) had them meet up and then you control one of them for half the episode each. That way, the new character would have had the time to make us care about them and their family (that's a big maybe, I haven't been impressed with what we've gotten so far.)
The big problem lies in Javier and the side characters being bland af. A game all about choices doesn't have much impact when you don't care about how your choices affect the characters.
It's just frustrating because the Clem I'm seeing now in S3 is the one I've wanted to play as all along. All that great build up and backstory has finally paid off! Except it hasn't. Because she's not playable.
Why do we have to be nice to Telltale? I don't get it, I won't break the rules, but they obviously do not care about us or the things that matter to us, so why do we have to tip toe around their feelings?
Exactly.
I molded this girl into a complete badass and now you take control of her away from me.
Tales of the Borderlands did it really nice with switching character and basically having 2 new main characters.
I still prefer Javi over Clem. I wish they didn't include her and did a mini DLC with here. Maybe 2 mini DLCs to please Kenny and Jane fans and then kill them there instead of a flashback ? Idk
I enjoyed weed smoking as much as I enjoyed Clementine kicking a door open by herself in S2.
Its working just fine for me, but arent we supposed to play as both, or is that not a thing?
Season 3 has been a joy so far. Javier is a cool character, a man with a flawed past who in the last 4 years has become a great protector of his family. Kate the step-mom...a young woman who married into a premade family, given the unenviable task of trying to be a step-mother to 2 children. Unhappy in the marriage...she becomes the voice of reason for Javier's group. Taking on the roll of the bad guy to keep the family together, she and Javier have already grown into their rolls by the time season 3 starts.
Javier is great as the protagonist with a good cast of support characters around him.
Clementine is a force of chaos now. We know her history up to a point. We have a 2 year gap in which she lost everything...was desperate enough to join a group and let them brand her arm. She left the New Frontier for unknown reasons. When we meet her she is trying to get a working vehicle. We have no idea where AJ is...or if he is even alive. Some say well he is in Richmond...and he may be...but then..why does Clementine need a car...if she is not wanting to go to New Richmond...then where is it she actually wants to go?
Javier and Clementine work very well together as a team. But it is understandable we favor Clem...luckily there is a solution...use another save to do things from a more balanced approach. Even in my first playthrough I agreed with Conrad's plan. In my second play I am going to be more thoughtful...I am not going to take the fall for her accidently blowing Eli's bastard brains out...even though the guy was an asshole, he probably did not deserve to die like that.
So I am having a fun...hell my Partner is having fun as well, and she does not play games much. We cast the game to our big screen from my laptop. For us...this is better than Season 2...and just works. It is going to be interesting to see where this goes.
Yeah because playing Season 2 Clementine who could kick down doors and was a leader of the group which a lot of fans didn't like was so good.
The quality of the writing fluctuated, but I wouldn't say it was consistently bad. Episode three featured some of the most exciting and suspenseful action I've seen in a Telltale game.
I loved watching her kick down doors. I was so happy to see door kicking clem in this episode.
I constantly see myself caring about Clem. I want to play her, I want to see what is in her head etc. Instead I am forced to be Javier and care about myself as Javier but honestly. when I make decisions, I dont care about Javier, I make them with the well being of Clem in mind.
Like, there are dialog pieces in there where Javier has the option to say about Clem
"She cant be trusted" or
"she is trouble" or
"let's abandon her, she is part of the New Frontier"
but I would NEVER EVER say those things because I know Clem. I was more than happy to shoot that jackass Conrad. Anyway for the writers to even give us the option to throw Clem under the bus and say "yeah this little bitch is evil" is ridiculous.
As I have said before, if they wanted to focus season 3 on Javier and thus a new character, they should have also done so. Not sort of half ass it and bring back Clem as a side kick, after fans built such a connection with her and played her and followed her journey since season 1. To me that is a huge disservice to the character and fans. Imagine if they made Aaron or Maggie that lead in the TV show version of TWD, while Rick would just be relegated to supporting character hanging around on the sidelines. It would be strange.
Finally, what happened to Clem in those flashbacks could have been an entire season of its own. And it was part of her story that fans wanted to see and that they just cut out and only bring back in bits and pieces in flashbacks. It is rather infuriating. having followed Clem through this journey of losing her friends and being forced to join these people and such would have been amazing. Such a missed opportunity.
Personally, I like Clem as a supporting character more than a main character, like in Season 1 and ANF. I feel like in Season 2, it didn't really make much sense for Clementine to have much authority over anyone as she is the youngest of the group. In Season 1 and ANF, you play as fully grown people, so it makes sense to have influence in the major decisions of the group, thus the choices feel like they mean more. I find Clem more interesting when I'm not her because... well, I'm not her! It's enticing finding out how she reacts to what I say and do.
On the other hand, I am glad we've had time playing as her because we've witnessed her entire story pretty much first hand and seeing how she's changed from Season 1 becomes more personal and meaningful as a result. Also, In my opinion, Javier gets enough of his own screen-time for me to give a damn about him and his family. I'm genuinely interested in seeing how David being the leader of The New Frontier plays out (And what he does to Badger when he finds out he kills his daughter).
It was cool but let's be honest, it wasn't effective for her. She was 11 and was somehow the near-leader of this group of adults
That was a rule that the volunteer mods request be added to the guidelines to prevent a toxic forum atmosphere. Criticisms are fine, but you can get your point across while still avoiding personal insults to people. The forum guidelines about respect towards users also apply to Telltale Staff. I mean, it is their forum after all.
I wouldn't say those were cliffhanger endings. They seemed pretty conclusive to me.
I dunno, I wasn't really too keen on any of them being how I left the series. You can optionally end up in Wellington, without Kenny, or knowing anything about who they are or why they'd turn away the only person in the group who could actually pull his own weight. And that's the closest to a conclusive ending with any closure. You can also end up with and the baby, you can choose to let the strangers in not knowing whether or not you can trust them, or turn them away and end up in basically the same situation the game started. You can choose to leave with Kenny, and end up in basically the same situation you started in. You can leave on your own with the baby, and end up in an objectionably worse situation than you started in. If they would have went with the Wellington ending, made it longer, I could see that being a satisfactory ending to her arc and an opening to move onto a new story. I don't mind an ending leaving some questions, but I'd rather they have more answers than questions.
Hey speak for yourself I really like Javier :P but I can agree, season 2 was pretty bad and rushed. It seemed like they wanted to get it out there as soon as possible.
So the whole rant is basically summed up that you're mad because Javier is the player character and Clementine isn't.
Here's some advice :
Put aside your biased opinion, understand that this is a new story with new characters and a new player character, Actually play the game without crying about Clementine and you may actually enjoy it. I feel bad for the game that people like you (and there seems to be so many) don't give it a chance because Clementine is pushed aside as a minor character. BIG DEAL. You should be thanking them for keeping her in it after the other 2 seasons and the characters were pretty much erased from this story. They said we'd play as both, we have. Javier in the story, and Clementine in the flashbacks, it's YOU people who assumed it was the same as borderlands. She was the centre of attention for both seasons, stop being selfish, it's time for a new character to come up and not have to dominated by Clementine. Like i always say, if you don't like something, don't watch/play it. If you go back and keep playing it after all this whinging, then you're a hypocrite.
Im glad some people are starting to see that this anti Clementine fan base is toxic. Biggest biased fans i've ever seen. It's sad, because the character is actually decent but the fans are what's wrong with it. Also bitching when she's not centre of attention and if someone disagree's, they must be fucked in the head or are wrong.
Because without them, you wouldn't get these games. We can't always have what we want, and im not being a asshole but if people are complaining, lets see everyone else start a company and make a game.
It's easy to sit there behind websites and ridicule other peoples work.
I completely disagree on your point of telltale "not having" to put clementine in the season. Look at how people are reacting to Clementine being barely playable and imagine that but far worse and rightfully or wrongfully a good amount of people at this point play TWD for clementine therefore removing her would most likely reduce the sales and excitement of this game which telltale does not want to happen. That's why they kept clementine in so that they could please older fans of the series and still keep the older fans engaged with the product. I'm not saying it's right but from Telltale's point of view it would be a absolute disaster to not have put her in