Somewhat controversial opinion... I wish *** wasn't in season 3 at all...
I for one didn't mind the Kenny fiasco since I actually stayed in Wellington yet still I feel Clementines focus in these two episodes is awful and the fact that you as a player know so much more than the character himself is immersion killing. I really like Javi and his group and wish they become the focus and to be actually allowed to have more than 1 conversation with them (seriously initial car driving weed scene+junkyard were like the two only enjoyable moments of this season). I don't want to play "PROTECT THE CLEM" again and specially not with a character that just met her.
I wish they would play more between Kate-Javi-Eleanor-Tripp-Dave relationships for example, Javi-Gabe as well. And I thought the dynamic of the group was really interesting initially. This would've been the first TTG with a romantic subplot (as far as I know) which has it's potential
Everything since we hit Tripp's place was a disapointment imo. Tripp and Co while they had potential they were extremely underdeveloped and killed of in the span of 30 minutes. I am not really sure if Clem is really the cause for this or TTG simply has shit writing (I mean there are many other issues in this season like uninteresting choices and some stupid dialogues like "tell him off" = "BRUH YOUR WIFE WANTS TO DUMP YOUR ASS FOR ME"). Anyway If I am honestly I haven't enjoyed a single moment of the Javi-Clem relationship. It feels forced and out of character.
Maybe I'd rather to either have gotten Clem/Javi parallel story (play as Javi outside of New Frontier while playing as Clem IN new frontier), Clem focused game (probably with Omid/Christa 2.0... just with giving Kenny a more compelling death than "oops car crash" or my favorite option in hindisight which is having Clem do a couple of 10 min cameos and focus on Javi)
Comments
I actually agree with you on this. The reason as to why I loved Michonne Mini Series was that we were dealing with a new cast of characters. There was no "I knew them longer so I will save them definitely" mind set. I got to know this cast and I didn't miss Clem at all. The theme about Walking Dead is that it's not about a single character, it's about multiple characters that each have their own reasons for surviving, all trying to simply survive.
I agree that S2 should have been the end of Clem's story arc so that the Kenny and Jane fans could be happy and also that we could start the series over with a new character to root for.
I agree with this so much.
One of the weakest parts of this season, for me, has been Clem's inclusion. Not only does she take away screentime from the newer characters, but people will always be biased towards her, which makes certain decisions less difficult to make. (I mean, just look at those stats. I don't wanna see that kind of thing every episode. I wanna see some real division.)
Season 2 should have been the end of Clementine's story. Kenny and Jane wouldn't have been given the usual determinant treatment, and we would've had the final say on where she ended up, as well as who she ended up with, if anyone.
I love Clementine with all my heart, but she's had more than her fair share of the spotlight. It's time to pass it on to someone else.
I agree with a lot of this. The perfect ending for my Clem would have been her, AJ and Kenny walking away together at the end of season 2.
I agree with you on that. My friend and I have debated much about the endings of Season 2. The fact of the matter is that the endings offered no continuation value for a Season 3.
Clem kills Jane and Kenny and then stays at Wellington.
Clem leaves Kenny or Jane and stays in Wellington.
Clem stays with Kenny.
Clem stays with Jane.
Basically that's quite a number of different story paths to make a good continuation in a sequel. This season should have been only about Javier. I got to know Michonne in her game and I really liked her and her inclusion of PTSD moments with her children were very well done. That ending also was a very well written scene.
It's good to see someone who agrees with me on that.
My Season 2 ending left me feeling very satisfied. I would've been more than happy if that were the conclusion to Clementine's story. It's nice and all to see her again, but it's become somewhat detrimental to Javier's story. As well as Clem's, in a way.
Maybe just a closure or a cameo with clementine in it woupdve been better but i think everyone can agree that the game wouldve been better without clementine, sure another dlementine story/season with more closure as to what happened to lily, and all of them wouldve been fine too, but i think they should probably kill clem off since the damage has been done adding her in and everyone making obvious choices to protect her.
Not even at epiwode 5, just kill her off in episode 3 and make the story all javier.
I don't want them to kill her off, I just want her to get mad and leave like Lilly did. She could join Lilly's group and that's that. Then we could just concentrate on Javier.
I would have been perfectly fine if Clem, Jane and AJ lived happily ever after(or something close to it) and never heard from them again. Seeing as they titled the game 'A New Frontier' you would think it would be a soft reset for the franchise.
I tried to make most of Javi's decisions in character as if he never met Clem, but right around when Conrad was arguing to turn her over to the gang was when it hit me. If it had been another character i might have made the same decision but part of me felt like my decision was influenced by my history with Clem.
I kinda agree with you guys, but if Clem was not in a new frontier a quarter of the players from season 2 including me will just ignore the game.
I get you , but a quick question. Was TTG supposed. to leave S1 and 2 fans nothing? Clem is cash in the bank. No way around it. Theres also no way TTG's accountants approve this game with out her. You'd need a Rick or Negan even before that could happen. And Kirkman has other deals for games featuring them. Best you'll get is a cameo. I grant you that this was'nt the best start. But we need to keep in mind there was an actor strike looming when these decisions were being made. As a fan of Clem, I'm glad her story is continueing. I just wish it were'nt something that so divided the fans. Given the circumstances,we are viewing,a great story.
Who are the Season 2 players though ? Do you mean the fans from the first game series ? Clem is a great character yeah I agree with that and yet she has served her purpose in the series in my opinion. In the first game, Lee and others teach her how to survive and they help her decide who she wants to be. In the second season, she has to decide again who will she be. She goes through more trials and tragedy. She has a choice to become cold like Jane or to continue to try to be like Lee with Kenny's help. This isn't a jab at Jane either. If someone only plays this game due to Clem, then they are playing a different game than me. Clem is only one character in this series and she's not as important to me as Lee and Kenny are. I feel that her story arc ended perfectly in S2 as her fate was decided by the player. I enjoyed Michonne Mini Series much more than I did S2 due to the better writing and more importantly, better characters.
So far, I think Telltale revealed Clementine way too early.
Considering that she was a part of The New Frontier and was going to be in Richmond regardless of our choice, it probably would have been a wiser decision to have her be revealed by the end of Episode 2, along with the revelation that David is the leader of The New Frontier.
Since Javier and his family were meant to be the main focus of the story, revealing Clementine halfway through Episode 1 somewhat invalidated the player's connection with the new cast.
To be honest, I think I would've preferred Season Two as the end of Clementine's story as well, mostly because of how pointless the entire plot of Season Two feels - the events didn't affect Clementine in any differing way, she's still doing the same things and acts the same way, kinda makes me wonder why they even bothered with the option to recreate past choices.
Yeah, in a way it kinda forces a bias on us - if you look at all the choices, allot of them were in favor of Clementine, likely just because we, the players, knew Clementine - I don't think too many people would lie for a complete stranger as they would for Clementine.
How would them choosing to leave Clem in S2 be giving the fans nothing ? How does Clem being a money pit to TT help us at all ? The accountants have nothing to do with the quality or the story of the game. When you write a story you must give the story love and care first and foremost. If you prioritize money first, then you are setting yourself up for failure already. In the grand scheme of the series, Clem isn't really THAT important.
What I personally find to be the most immersion-killing is that Clementine is the same regardless of her past.
Now I kinda understand all the worried fuss over The Walking Dead: Season Three being re-titled to 'A New Frontier'.
Also, I don't believe this is the first TTG game with a romantic sub-plot, pretty much all their games apart from Minecraft: Story Mode, The Walking Dead: Michonne and The Walking Dead Game: Season Two.
I don't think this opinion is controversial at all. Everyone I've talked to admit that Clementine's inclusion does have influence on their experience, even if they don't feel like she directly influence their chocies.
For me it's mostly a lack of tension towards her safety. We know the rough lines of her and Javier's story is that they will play off each other so she will be around and alive until at least the last episode. Jesus also has this element, lack of tension towards his characters safety, since most people know he's alive in the comics later.
...except a lot of us don't WANT "a new character to root for." Clem's been with us from the very beginning, just like Rick Grimes, and she's still alive for the same reason he's still alive. The fact is, if Telltale caved to your demands and axed Clem, they'd lose more customers than they could afford, myself among them.
Here's the problem, T.L.: This game is called "Season 3," which means it's a continuation of one sort or another. Dropping Clem's story altogether and putting the focus squarely on Javier would have been a flat-out reboot, and many fans simply aren't interested in starting over. I know I'd feel exhausted by the idea.
If the game lost Clem, the game would lose me, and a good chunk of other players in the process. Disappointing flashbacks aside, I think Telltale's been doing fine with Clem's role in S3 so far.
Not really. Clem's ceased to be the PC in S3 (for the most part), but there's a vital difference between her role in S1 and her role in S3. With Lee, she was a character to be protected and raised in the worst environment imaginable. But with Javier, she's practically his equal. Even his superior, in some aspects. I love seeing that evolution.
You realize there's a perfect solution to your predicament, right? Just don't play S3. Hell, Telltale probably made Michonne just to satisfy the fans who want Clementine gone.
Then don't? You can ignore her, not call her a friend, not trust her, etc. I mean, I get what you're saying.. It's a bit weird playing as Javier and looking at Clem with fondness the moment she appears on screen. I will protect her no matter what though. As long as Telltale makes siding with her make sense for Javier, I'm ok with that. I mean, if we think about it, we all just met Tripp, Eleanor, etc. too. Back in season 2 Clem spent what? A few days/weeks with the cabin crew before they all died? And they trusted and cared for each other. So yeah, people who just met working together and protecting each other isn't really new. I think even if it wasn't Clem and it was another 13 year old kid, I would probably still try to protect her/him. My Clem was always nice to Sarah for instances. And my Lee was always nice to Duck. The kids are the future, man. Besides, Clem is about the same age as Mariana and Gabe, so why is it so weird to imagine Javier going into protective-uncle mode and want her to be safe too? I honestly don't get this constant "it's not realistic for Javier to care/protect Clem". Well, it is for my Javier, because he cares about people in general.
I mean I would consider myself a S1 and S2 fan as well. As much as I like Clem I don't think having her again as an NPC after playing her in S2 was a good idea. It's the worst commitment between die hard clementine fans and trying to reset the franchise to new characters, leaving both parties somewhat displeased.
Technically it isn't called season 3. At least on the steam page, season 2 is called "The Walking Dead: Season 2" while this appears as "The Walking Dead: A New Frontier" instead of ": Season 3".
If Clem wasn't involved in S3, then the season would've had better reception from fans because the biggest flaws about this season so far (besides the episode lengths) is how short Clementine was playable and how her flashbacks were handled
Sounds like when Kenny came back in A House Divided except a little worse.
To be fair, only comic book fans and few select outsiders would really give a shit about him, especially since he's done nothing besides be the nebulous escort with kung fu powers so far.
At least the Cabin Group had around an episode and a half to themselves before Kenny's arrival at the mid-way point of Episode 2.
Javier and his family only had half of an episode to themselves right at the beginning before Clementine arrived to the scene.
It was inevitable that the audience would immediately focus their attention more on Clementine and pay little heed to the newer characters.
I agree, I feel like A New Frontier should have never been "season 3" it could have been a brand new Original Telltale Series in the Walking Dead Universe. Clem feels really out of place and can determinedly feel really out of character (My Clem from season 1 and 2 never killed anyone, and already in season 3 she's killed atleast 2 people) and the flashbacks feel more like a spit in the face than giving older players something to enjoy.
I think you underestimate how large of a portion the players read the comic or know enough to know the characters.
It pops up in all places ever where they post the trailers and screenshots too.
"OMG is that Jeebuz from dem comics LMAO, he badass."
It doesn't take more than that.
Not to forget that the episodes are shorter now. and if Clem takes even those parts away from Javi, then there is not that much left for Javi. For Javi's family even less
Maybe Clem's story should have been a 3 episodes mini special like 400 days. It's about either the live with kenny,jane or being in wellington. Maybe build up a death scene for Kenny and Jane instead of killing them in a 4 minutes flashback. Idk.
Then they could leave Clem out and put more focus on Javi and his family
I think you pointed out an issue I'm having with ANF and one that seems to be getting worse each Season.
Until Episode 3, where he just sorta tolerates him at first before coming around.
Exactly.
That's what I said, or at the very least, meant.
Most comic fans would be focused on him and want to see him be him, but those who don't read the comics would range from "Who's that cool guy in the trenchcoat?" or ""Who's this Kenny-esque hobo and why should I care?" I lean a little towards the latter.
Yep. Mine too. But well, what can we do? If we think about it too much then we can never have a relationship with these characters because they all just met a few days ago and it seems unrealistic.
That's probably true, though mostly because it seems most fans who wanted her to be central likely wouldn't have bothered with this season.
I agree so much. TellTale just had to ruin all those satisfying endings season 2 gave us and throw Clementine back into the fire. Needless to say, I'm really glad season 3 is focusing on new characters. Clementine's involvement honestly feels shoehorned in and I've kinda become detached to her by now; at the very least I'm relieved she's back to (mostly) being an NPC, but her stony personality rubs me the wrong way.
I personally don't think her story is finished yet, the main reason I like TWD is just to see her grow up and how she handles all the shit around her. I mean in season 2 you decide who your clem will be, in a new frontier we get to see who you became and how she acts in another point of view. But they fucked that up because no matter what she is the exact same. So season 1 is a scared and fun little kid, season 2 is her becoming a survivor but she has not reached her peak. A new frontier she is a harden survivor who can kill without hesitation.
I agree With this 100% I Do no what to babysit a girl i just met in the zombie apocalypse