But you sort of risk everyone's lives by letting him go. What makes you think he won't just go into full crazy mode again and put someone else at gunpoint to make you agree with his next plan? Next time someone might actually die. Not to mention, you're about to go into a place full of the guys who killed Francine. I don't trust him to not fuck things up. It's a risk either way, it's a matter if you want to take a short term risk or a long term one. Personally, I like to believe Javier has confidence in his shooting skills after 4 years into the apocalypse and wouldn't miss a shot like that (where Conrad's head was completely exposed).
It was the choice between my nephew and the girl I met a day ago. I couldn't risk his life after all this shit.
Plus, I was assuming we have a chance to talk this shit through with the others when he cools off .
The problem is, and it is a trap I fell into, is that people are making the choice based on their knowledge of Clementine and not what Javier knows about her.
Conrad's plan was sound up until he used Gabe as a hostage.
There is no reason to believe Clementine would surrender for some kid she barely said two words to. Clem herself made it abundantly clear that she would rather eat a bullet then be taken hostage, so why should she care for Gabe's safety?
This idiot has placed Gabe's life in danger based on some flimsy notion that Clem gives a shit.
The problem is, and it is a trap I fell into, is that people are making the choice based on their knowledge of Clementine and not what Javier knows about her.
It's what they say, not what i say, clearly doesn't know the difference.
1: What does season 2 have to do with season 3? and 2: Because i actually enjoy the game, i've discussed with people about how the Jane Kenny thing was wrong, but i made a post here about how i was surprised at how many people shot Conrad and the two responses i got that was 99% of the answers were either Clementine biased opinion or Gabe.
Because besides Lee who is dead and Javier, no other character was a player character. And plus if others had a favourite characters, they never disregarded other characters as badly as Clementine fans do, i mean, who would be so childish to just reject Javier, because Clementine was ditched as the player character, that's pathetic.
Lol, i wasn't talking about what was wrong with season 2, im talking about characters who do something wrong against Clementine get hated for it. Kenny abusing Clementine for Saritas situation caused a lot of people to think Kenny was an asshole yet he spoke the truth.
And they turn a blind for her even though she lied and the other stuff she did, and don't forget, she takes off if you choose to shoot him and she turns on you if you say maybe Conrad is right. Not biased at all, any other character would've been taken hostage in that situation.
Im sorry, was he holding the kinfe when she was pulling the trigger in his face?
Most of the community.
I didn't know that you speak for "most of the community", that's news to me.
but ALOT of people bitched… more because they all thought it was going to be a borderlands type of playthrough, and now people are like "Javier is boring" "Clemy, i want Clemy". I don't hate Clementine just putting it out there, it's the fans.
And how is that different from when people "bitched" when she was the main character in season 2? How is that different from you complaining about the fans instead of arguing about the game? How do you call that?
They're biased and think she's a golden child that deserves to be the main character in every game and will disregard characters who do something wrong by her.
How is that different from anyone favoring their favorite characters? Don't act like Clementine is the only one suffering from this.
Kenny gets hated on when he yells at her
That's what you mostl… [view original content]
I didn't attack the person, i replied with the fact that the persons opinion was biased towards Clementine. Said person is saying it was justified because he sold her "fake bullets", yet he begs for his life and will give her batteries and she rejects it and starts firing the gun at his face when his unarmed. So again, enlighten me how i was attacking the person.
No, wait, ill answer it for you, if i was id be like "Oh F you, you're just a FING Clementine fan you suck".
That's attacking someone.
Trying to argue with people here is like arguing with a broken radio. I already made all my points in the other thread that was absolutely the same, so I won't even bother answering you. Just keep believing yourself, buddy.
She also lied to him several times, threatened him at gunpoint, and endangered his life more than once.
There is no reason for Javier to trust Clem over Conrad.
Yes he was a smart ass and him attacking them with a knife was foul play but the thing is that she didn't have to do fire the gun at his face, she could've did it on the ground. She was reckless and im sorry but that was HER choice to point it and fire it at his face, we as Javier shouldn't be lying for her, she needs to own up for what she did accident or not. Letting her get away with it and putting Javier in hot water when he did nothing wrong is stupid and biased.
Eli attacked first, was a smartass and a dick, and the gun fired accidently (Clem thought the bullets don't work or got mixed up with Javi's… more gun). It's a legitimate mistake on Clem's side, but she doesn't wanna take the full fall for a alleged murder on such a bastard. So I understand she asks Javi to back her up. It was, afterall, self-defense.
Well would you mind pointing me to that other thread where you have made your points. It is kind of hard to have a discussion if you don't know what the reasoning is behind the other person's point of view.
Trying to argue with people here is like arguing with a broken radio. I already made all my points in the other thread that was absolutely the same, so I won't even bother answering you. Just keep believing yourself, buddy.
And this is what im talking about. VoteDC brings up good points
He highlights that people are making the choices based on what WE know of her, not what Javier knows which is true
She lied several times (true)
Threatened him at gunpoint (true)
Endangered his life more then once (true)
All his points were true and you be a smart ass to the person because you're a pro Clementine fan. Thanks for proving my point about the Clementine fans.
Trying to argue with people here is like arguing with a broken radio. I already made all my points in the other thread that was absolutely the same, so I won't even bother answering you. Just keep believing yourself, buddy.
Well would you mind pointing me to that other thread where you have made your points. It is kind of hard to have a discussion if you don't know what the reasoning is behind the other person's point of view.
In fairness here, I am a Clementine fan too. And that is kind of my problem with this season so far.
She's one of my favourite fictional characters and that bias is affecting how I have Javier react to her. It's very similar in how I ended up trusting the comic character who makes an appearance because I know of him from the other media.
And this is what im talking about. VoteDC brings up good points
* He highlights that people are making the choices based on what WE kno… morew of her, not what Javier knows which is true
* She lied several times (true)
* Threatened him at gunpoint (true)
* Endangered his life more then once (true)
All his points were true and you be a smart ass to the person because you're a pro Clementine fan. Thanks for proving my point about the Clementine fans.
It's what they say, not what i say, clearly doesn't know the difference.
1: What does season 2 have to do with season 3? and 2: Because i… more actually enjoy the game, i've discussed with people about how the Jane Kenny thing was wrong, but i made a post here about how i was surprised at how many people shot Conrad and the two responses i got that was 99% of the answers were either Clementine biased opinion or Gabe.
Because besides Lee who is dead and Javier, no other character was a player character. And plus if others had a favourite characters, they never disregarded other characters as badly as Clementine fans do, i mean, who would be so childish to just reject Javier, because Clementine was ditched as the player character, that's pathetic.
Lol, i wasn't talking about what was wrong with season 2, im talking about characters who do something wrong against Clementine get hated for it. Kenny abusing Clementine for Saritas situation caus… [view original content]
Says the person who was a smart ass to someone who only said the truth about Clementine, but you chose not to believe actual facts because you're biased. And im the troll. Gold.
Thats okay, i was only stating to Deventh, that you made some points that were true and said person wanted to just run away instead of admitting it was true, the same person was doing the same thing on the link he/she sent to you with that other user.
In fairness here, I am a Clementine fan too. And that is kind of my problem with this season so far.
She's one of my favourite fictional … morecharacters and that bias is affecting how I have Javier react to her. It's very similar in how I ended up trusting the comic character who makes an appearance because I know of him from the other media.
You make some decent points but I think you are coming at the discussion from the point that you trust Clem and not why Javier should trust her. For every reason that he should, there is an equally good one as to why Javier should not. And in an apocalypse I would think people would err on the side of caution.
Plus as to the point that Clem didn't mean to shoot him, maybe she didn't but I remember a line from the first season "But know where your finger is at all times. And don't put it on the trigger unless you want to hurt somebody."
Then you must not have read it properly, or you can't respond properly because you'd have to agree to something you don't want to do.
IN all seriousness though,
You claimed i said i spoke for the majority of the community, when in fact it was what they have SAID, not what i THINK.
I asked what your comment about season 2 had in terms of relevance to season 3? You responded to my comment saying about those people who bitched about Clementine as the player character in season 2 when my comment indicated people bitching that they thought the 2 player characters was like Borderlands where they have half and half episode time. So again, what did season 2 have to do with what i said about season 3?
But you didn't answer the question, was Eli holding the knife when Clementine pulled the trigger in his face?
I think it is hard sometimes to separate what you feel from what the characters should be feeling. I'm having a hard time of it I admit, I suspect Deventh is just having a harder time of it.
He does make some good points in the comments he linked me to, but seems biased to the 'good' interactions Javier has with Clem.
I seem to be in a very forgiving mood today. I suspect it'd be different if I was posting after work.
Thats okay, i was only stating to Deventh, that you made some points that were true and said person wanted to just run away instead of admit… moreting it was true, the same person was doing the same thing on the link he/she sent to you with that other user.
Lol yeah i can relate with work.
But it was only because you bought up some good actual facts, and he/she pretty much said "Nup, not gonna listen to this" so im gonna run away from the truth and said just keep believing yourself buddy as a sarcastic expression .
I think it is hard sometimes to separate what you feel from what the characters should be feeling. I'm having a hard time of it I admit, I s… moreuspect Deventh is just having a harder time of it.
He does make some good points in the comments he linked me to, but seems biased to the 'good' interactions Javier has with Clem.
I seem to be in a very forgiving mood today. I suspect it'd be different if I was posting after work.
You claimed i said i spoke for the majority of the community, when in fact it was what they have SAID, not what i THINK.
You're the one who said "we" without backing it up, just a vague "most of the community", which I'm still waiting to see btw. Most of what I read on the internet from the people who chose to shoot Conrad are Gabe, Conrad's increased foolishness since Francine's death and using a hostage to make a point which is NOT okay in my book and of course people who like Clementine for a variety of reasons. But you're right, let's just keep talking about Clementine's fans, because that's the most important right?
All she wanted was to find a car and go to Richmond, nothing else. It wasn't up to Javier or Conrad or anyone to decide for herself, hell if it wasn't Javier crying a river about his family she would be back on the road but my Clem is not revengeful and she wants to help people in need but she's making her own decisions, never taking sides in arguments same as with Lee. As for "lying", she did mention she was with the New Frontier for a time but it was "bad" so she got out and not mentioning AJ is the smartest thing to do in that situation so if Javier gets mad because she didn't tell him that piece of information, screw him, she doesn't owe those strangers anything. And for the record I didn't lie for her the first time because I want to help her to trust people again and that means no killing unless necessary.
I asked what your comment about season 2 had in terms of relevance to season 3? You responded to my comment saying about those people who bitched about Clementine as the player character in season 2 when my comment indicated people bitching that they thought the 2 player characters was like Borderlands where they have half and half episode time. So again, what did season 2 have to do with what i said about season 3?
Easy, same complaints. People complained because playing as Clementine wasn't the same as playing as Lee and now we have people complaining about Javier is different from playing as Clementine. Of course we also have telltale's misleading marketing about Clementine being "playable" for 2 short flashbacks, not even mentioning all the ruckus about those "42 starting points" that are basically non-existent so far, so people are complaining and they have only themselves to blame. I'm sure the next TWD games will have the same complaints. Michonne had this very same complaint too. Calling the people who reject Javier childish is kinda ironic considering you made a thread mostly to rant about Clementine's fans. So what if 90% of players didn't make your choice?
But you didn't answer the question, was Eli holding the knife when Clementine pulled the trigger in his face?
No but he wasn't unarmed like you claimed either, nice try though. He also nearly got her killed by giving her bullets that won't work, so he's clearly not innocent, context is always important and she clearly was shocked when the gun fired but I guess you don't care about that.
Then you must not have read it properly, or you can't respond properly because you'd have to agree to something you don't want to do.
IN … moreall seriousness though,
* You claimed i said i spoke for the majority of the community, when in fact it was what they have SAID, not what i THINK.
* I asked what your comment about season 2 had in terms of relevance to season 3? You responded to my comment saying about those people who bitched about Clementine as the player character in season 2 when my comment indicated people bitching that they thought the 2 player characters was like Borderlands where they have half and half episode time. So again, what did season 2 have to do with what i said about season 3?
But you didn't answer the question, was Eli holding the knife when Clementine pulled the trigger in his face?
What the "we all know expression? Seriously? That's what you've got. Look all around this thread and tell me you don't see anyone saying It was something to do with Clementine.
I haven't just mentioned this Conrad choice, i have also mentioned the choice about lying for her. I think that choice is more one sided then the conrad decision that you lie for her. Tell me, whats the excuse there? Eli was a "asshole"?
You're right it wasn't their choice because as i remember correctly, it was HER who chose to cut the tree down and then take Javier hostage and blackmail him to give her his car. And see what i mean, through your rant, you still give shit to other characters because of her, claiming Javier was crying, so that means that Clementine was a crying a river for wanting to find her parents by your logic, wait let me guess, you gonna say it's okay for Clementine to cry, but not Javier right?
She lied about her mark of them thus lying about her involvement, she explains to Javier about them, yet doesn't tell him until they're in the tunnel, we are playing as Javier, how can he possibly trust her after that? How does he know she hasn't got anything else hidden up her sleeve? We don't even know because the game has only showed 2 episodes. If we say "oh but Clementine is nice blah blah blah" then it's our opinion, not facts.
From what i saw, it was people complaining more about the deaths of characters, time skips, short episodes and Kenny being in the spotlight. The Lee complaints were people trying to make stupid accusations that somehow Lee was alive. The only real complaints about Clementine was that it was unrealistic some of the stuff she could do. Javier's case is a lot more pathetic, people have said they want to reject him by favouring Clementine every way they can to try and get back at telltale for making Javier the player character. How many times did you see people in season 2 do that?
I suggest you go read what my thread actually detailed "I just finished Episode 2 and i can't believe that 90% of people chose to kill Conrad. I mean are people really going to kill a member of the group for suggesting a plan that could help the girls? I always knew more would opt to kill him because of Clementine, but to see 90%? Wow. I actually chose not to shoot him because i didn't want to kill a member of the group.
What's everyones thoughts?"
I never ranted about the fans, in fact i actually conceded that people would choose to kill him because of Clementine which was meant that no one would want to betray her, and i also asked for everyones thoughts, if i was ranting, i wouldn't of asked, it was only after seeing stupid posts on here about people shooting him because Clementine comes first, that i started to rant about the fans, so i accept your apology for misinterpreting what i actually said.
Haha don't lie buddy, he was unarmed, he pulled the knife out, then Javier put him back in his place, he begged to swap back the batteries, but Clementine wouldn't listen, she cocks the gun, points it right at his face and pulls the trigger, she could've pointed it at the ground or in the air but she pointed it at his face. No one said he was innocent, innocent an unarmed ain't the same thing. It doesn't change what she did, Remember what Lee said to her in teaching her how to shoot? "But know where your finger is at all times. And don't put it on the trigger unless you want to hurt somebody." Nice to see she listened to Lee. But it's Clementine, she always has an excuse right ?
You claimed i said i spoke for the majority of the community, when in fact it was what they have SAID, not what i THINK.
You're the … moreone who said "we" without backing it up, just a vague "most of the community", which I'm still waiting to see btw. Most of what I read on the internet from the people who chose to shoot Conrad are Gabe, Conrad's increased foolishness since Francine's death and using a hostage to make a point which is NOT okay in my book and of course people who like Clementine for a variety of reasons. But you're right, let's just keep talking about Clementine's fans, because that's the most important right?
All she wanted was to find a car and go to Richmond, nothing else. It wasn't up to Javier or Conrad or anyone to decide for herself, hell if it wasn't Javier crying a river about his family she would be back on the road but my Clem is not revengeful and she wants to help people in need but she's making her own deci… [view original content]
Yes he was a smart ass and him attacking them with a knife was foul play but the thing is that she didn't have to do fire the gun at his fac… moree, she could've did it on the ground. She was reckless and im sorry but that was HER choice to point it and fire it at his face, we as Javier shouldn't be lying for her, she needs to own up for what she did accident or not. Letting her get away with it and putting Javier in hot water when he did nothing wrong is stupid and biased.
You're right it wasn't their choice because as i remember correctly, it was HER who chose to cut the tree down and then take Javier hostage and blackmail him to give her his car. And see what i mean, through your rant, you still give shit to other characters because of her, claiming Javier was crying, so that means that Clementine was a crying a river for wanting to find her parents by your logic, wait let me guess, you gonna say it's okay for Clementine to cry, but not Javier right?
Don't forget she was willing to let him go until he asked her to help him to come back to his family which she was in no way obliged to listen and then literally 2 minutes later she frees him from the restraint which is odd considering her untrusting behavior toward strangers. That's funny because I tried many times to tell Clem the truth about her parents but it seemed like the game didn't want me to, go figure. I didn't want to lie to her.
She lied about her mark of them thus lying about her involvement, she explains to Javier about them, yet doesn't tell him until they're in the tunnel, we are playing as Javier, how can he possibly trust her after that? How does he know she hasn't got anything else hidden up her sleeve? We don't even know because the game has only showed 2 episodes. If we say "oh but Clementine is nice blah blah blah" then it's our opinion, not facts
She is no longer part of the New Frontier thus she has no more obligation to them therefore that argument doesn't have any weight. I'm Javier, if I found out a person was part of a bad group but that he/she got out, I wouldn't want to force that person to come with us just to benefit MY desire. I also saw a toddler in her flashbacks who is no longer with her in the present, it's all the information I need about how bad things were for them. That's like people trusting Jesus because we see him in the comics so we know he's trustworthy.
From what i saw, it was people complaining more about the deaths of characters, time skips, short episodes and Kenny being in the spotlight. The Lee complaints were people trying to make stupid accusations that somehow Lee was alive. The only real complaints about Clementine was that it was unrealistic some of the stuff she could do. Javier's case is a lot more pathetic, people have said they want to reject him by favouring Clementine every way they can to try and get back at telltale for making Javier the player character. How many times did you see people in season 2 do that?
You forgot the complaints about her not having personality but you're correct and I see you didn't address telltale's misleading marketing which is basically the bulk of the complaints.
Haha don't lie buddy, he was unarmed, he pulled the knife out, then Javier put him back in his place, he begged to swap back the batteries, but Clementine wouldn't listen, she cocks the gun, points it right at his face and pulls the trigger, she could've pointed it at the ground or in the air but she pointed it at his face. No one said he was innocent, innocent an unarmed ain't the same thing. It doesn't change what she did, Remember what Lee said to her in teaching her how to shoot? "But know where your finger is at all times. And don't put it on the trigger unless you want to hurt somebody." Nice to see she listened to Lee. But it's Clementine, she always has an excuse right ?
I'm pretty sure I said I didn't lie for her but nice try though.
What the "we all know expression? Seriously? That's what you've got. Look all around this thread and tell me you don't see anyone saying It … morewas something to do with Clementine.
I haven't just mentioned this Conrad choice, i have also mentioned the choice about lying for her. I think that choice is more one sided then the conrad decision that you lie for her. Tell me, whats the excuse there? Eli was a "asshole"?
You're right it wasn't their choice because as i remember correctly, it was HER who chose to cut the tree down and then take Javier hostage and blackmail him to give her his car. And see what i mean, through your rant, you still give shit to other characters because of her, claiming Javier was crying, so that means that Clementine was a crying a river for wanting to find her parents by your logic, wait let me guess, you gonna say it's okay for Clementine to cry, but not Javier right?
She lied about her mark of them thus lying ab… [view original content]
I admit I did that too with Jesus. I mean, Javier just met this shady looking guy that tricked him and pointed a gun to his head yet I still decided to choose to trust him because he's one of the good guys in the comics.
The problem is, and it is a trap I fell into, is that people are making the choice based on their knowledge of Clementine and not what Javier knows about her.
You're right it wasn't their choice because as i remember correctly, it was HER who chose to cut the tree down and then take Javier hostage … moreand blackmail him to give her his car. And see what i mean, through your rant, you still give shit to other characters because of her, claiming Javier was crying, so that means that Clementine was a crying a river for wanting to find her parents by your logic, wait let me guess, you gonna say it's okay for Clementine to cry, but not Javier right?
Don't forget she was willing to let him go until he asked her to help him to come back to his family which she was in no way obliged to listen and then literally 2 minutes later she frees him from the restraint which is odd considering her untrusting behavior toward strangers. That's funny because I tried many times to tell Clem the truth about her parents but it seemed like the game didn't want me to, go figure. I didn't want to lie to her.
She li… [view original content]
"Clementine picture : Check." Here you are attacking their choice of avatar, not their post.
"Sticking up for Clementine for shooting a unarmed man in cold blood : Check." Here you're attacking them for their opinion instead of actually addressing what is wrong with their argument. Also, whether or not it was in 'cold blood' is the premise of the posters argument, but you asserted it in your statement as if it were not the premise but an agreed upon fact, without providing an argument for it yourself.
I didn't attack the person, i replied with the fact that the persons opinion was biased towards Clementine. Said person is saying it was jus… moretified because he sold her "fake bullets", yet he begs for his life and will give her batteries and she rejects it and starts firing the gun at his face when his unarmed. So again, enlighten me how i was attacking the person.
No, wait, ill answer it for you, if i was id be like "Oh F you, you're just a FING Clementine fan you suck".
That's attacking someone.
Conrad took a hostage to force you to do exactly what he wanted.
Clementine did the exact same thing when she forced you at gun point to agree to give her your van.
But here's the crucial difference for me: When Clem takes you hostage, you are not a member of her group; you are a stranger who could be dangerous in a world where resources are extremely scarce and during the time you're together, she risks her butt to help you out.
Conrad takes a GROUP member hostage to coerce another group member into betraying a different group member and point's his gun at all three. The fact he has no problem threatening group members makes him unpredictable and dangerous and I have no reason to think he wouldn't do it again.
Clem's flaky as fuck, but at least her behavior is predictable and was not a direct threat to javi or his kin at the time, whereas Conrad's behavior was.
If you're not gonna look out for the people you're with, then you shouldn't be with them. Unless you're a sociopath, then you can just use and dispose of people as you see fit.
While I did shoot Conrad because of Clementine, it's very understandable to shoot and neutralize him because he has his (Javi's) nephew at gun point, and tried to force you into agreeing. (Shooting both of you if staying silent just underlines the choice to shoot him).
Andy is an entirely different matter. He tried to kill Lee on the electrical fence, Lee manages to fend him off, and beats him to pulp in the heat, NOT killing him. BTW, you don't get the option to back off of Andy.
After beating him down, it's over for him. What else can he do? No gun, no power to beat down any one of the group. He's done for and no threat at all; even more so while walkers are shuffling towards all of them.
I didn't shoot Andy, because there was no need to. I also didn't kill Danny with the fork in the barn. He was done for, why accelerate the process?
Conrad, as mentioned, was holding a gun to someone else's head and was able to end his life at any point in time. Reaction was crucial to the situation. Now whether or not you do it for Clem and/or Gabe is irrelevant. The difference is: Andy was done for after the beating, and Conrad is an actual threat.
Explain to me why i would accept a backstep to cover up the truth? I actually have said there are differences, that it was in different time… mores i.e who had a gun at one point etc. But like i just posted to you on the other thing, Both Conrad and Andy did the same thing, but because killing Andy meant a negative reaction by Clementine, the majority chose to spare the man, yet how many of them bashed Andy to a pulp? there's all these cries about him being unarmed, but i bet you the majority bashed him when he had his arms pinned. Double standards again but im sure there's an excuse for that one.
Exactly what you said, she doesn't feel obliged to but then she decides to cut him free and blackmail him saying well i know you need to get to your family and the car is your ticket to survival, but im going to just blackmail and steal it when too be honest Javier had a right not to trust her. I was only going by your logic that you said Javier was crying over his family, so it must mean so was Clementine when she first met Lee.
We don't know that yet, all we know is that she was a part of them, we can't trust her yet. She runs off if you kill Conrad, why is she so against being noticed by them? It has nothing to do with our desire, it's the fact that she lied, so she cant be trusted, if we use her because she's been there, it might help save the girls, for me it's time to look out for the other characters, not just Clementine.
the misleading markertings been there since season 1 , remember the trailers that were completly different to the actual episodes? Kinda like her personality and actions in season 3? Ill be honest, ive seen people complain about season 2, but not as much as you, you hate the season that much?
You said he wasn't unarmed like i said he was, which was what ? i said was Eli holding a knife when he was shot? He wasn,t so he was unarmed. Did you see any weapons on him? So what am i nice trying about?
What about that Lee quote to her about shooting? She didn't listen to what Lee taught apparently, or that she did, and she was intending on hurting Eli.
You're right it wasn't their choice because as i remember correctly, it was HER who chose to cut the tree down and then take Javier hostage … moreand blackmail him to give her his car. And see what i mean, through your rant, you still give shit to other characters because of her, claiming Javier was crying, so that means that Clementine was a crying a river for wanting to find her parents by your logic, wait let me guess, you gonna say it's okay for Clementine to cry, but not Javier right?
Don't forget she was willing to let him go until he asked her to help him to come back to his family which she was in no way obliged to listen and then literally 2 minutes later she frees him from the restraint which is odd considering her untrusting behavior toward strangers. That's funny because I tried many times to tell Clem the truth about her parents but it seemed like the game didn't want me to, go figure. I didn't want to lie to her.
She li… [view original content]
Comments
But you sort of risk everyone's lives by letting him go. What makes you think he won't just go into full crazy mode again and put someone else at gunpoint to make you agree with his next plan? Next time someone might actually die. Not to mention, you're about to go into a place full of the guys who killed Francine. I don't trust him to not fuck things up. It's a risk either way, it's a matter if you want to take a short term risk or a long term one. Personally, I like to believe Javier has confidence in his shooting skills after 4 years into the apocalypse and wouldn't miss a shot like that (where Conrad's head was completely exposed).
The problem is, and it is a trap I fell into, is that people are making the choice based on their knowledge of Clementine and not what Javier knows about her.
Conrad's plan was sound up until he used Gabe as a hostage.
There is no reason to believe Clementine would surrender for some kid she barely said two words to. Clem herself made it abundantly clear that she would rather eat a bullet then be taken hostage, so why should she care for Gabe's safety?
This idiot has placed Gabe's life in danger based on some flimsy notion that Clem gives a shit.
The decision is simple, shoot Conrad.
What he knows is that Clem helped him numerous times and put her trust in him by telling her secret and if you choose to betray her that's on you.
She also lied to him several times, threatened him at gunpoint, and endangered his life more than once.
There is no reason for Javier to trust Clem over Conrad.
It's what they say, not what i say, clearly doesn't know the difference.
1: What does season 2 have to do with season 3? and 2: Because i actually enjoy the game, i've discussed with people about how the Jane Kenny thing was wrong, but i made a post here about how i was surprised at how many people shot Conrad and the two responses i got that was 99% of the answers were either Clementine biased opinion or Gabe.
Because besides Lee who is dead and Javier, no other character was a player character. And plus if others had a favourite characters, they never disregarded other characters as badly as Clementine fans do, i mean, who would be so childish to just reject Javier, because Clementine was ditched as the player character, that's pathetic.
Lol, i wasn't talking about what was wrong with season 2, im talking about characters who do something wrong against Clementine get hated for it. Kenny abusing Clementine for Saritas situation caused a lot of people to think Kenny was an asshole yet he spoke the truth.
And they turn a blind for her even though she lied and the other stuff she did, and don't forget, she takes off if you choose to shoot him and she turns on you if you say maybe Conrad is right. Not biased at all, any other character would've been taken hostage in that situation.
Im sorry, was he holding the kinfe when she was pulling the trigger in his face?
Dude I think it's safe to say that I'm not new.
I didn't attack the person, i replied with the fact that the persons opinion was biased towards Clementine. Said person is saying it was justified because he sold her "fake bullets", yet he begs for his life and will give her batteries and she rejects it and starts firing the gun at his face when his unarmed. So again, enlighten me how i was attacking the person.
No, wait, ill answer it for you, if i was id be like "Oh F you, you're just a FING Clementine fan you suck".
That's attacking someone.
Trying to argue with people here is like arguing with a broken radio. I already made all my points in the other thread that was absolutely the same, so I won't even bother answering you. Just keep believing yourself, buddy.
Yes he was a smart ass and him attacking them with a knife was foul play but the thing is that she didn't have to do fire the gun at his face, she could've did it on the ground. She was reckless and im sorry but that was HER choice to point it and fire it at his face, we as Javier shouldn't be lying for her, she needs to own up for what she did accident or not. Letting her get away with it and putting Javier in hot water when he did nothing wrong is stupid and biased.
Well would you mind pointing me to that other thread where you have made your points. It is kind of hard to have a discussion if you don't know what the reasoning is behind the other person's point of view.
And this is what im talking about. VoteDC brings up good points
All his points were true and you be a smart ass to the person because you're a pro Clementine fan. Thanks for proving my point about the Clementine fans.
https://telltale.com/community/discussion/comment/2670339#Comment_2670339
Thank you.
I agree.
RomanEmpire14, your troll level is above 100. Congratulations, man.
What, im not allowed to post a picture of the Clementine album? Are you saying my photos aren't good enough? That's not nice.
I think this one is my favourite.
I'm just saying you're a troll who desperately seeks attention. Good luck though, I won't be replying to this thread anymore to give it more bumps.
In fairness here, I am a Clementine fan too. And that is kind of my problem with this season so far.
She's one of my favourite fictional characters and that bias is affecting how I have Javier react to her. It's very similar in how I ended up trusting the comic character who makes an appearance because I know of him from the other media.
I was too focused on pleasing Clementine and saving Gabe's life to consider the plan, which logically was the right thing to do.
I'm sorry but all I got from your wall of text here is that "Clementine fans are biased" (x10). Is that it?
Says the person who was a smart ass to someone who only said the truth about Clementine, but you chose not to believe actual facts because you're biased. And im the troll. Gold.
Thats okay, i was only stating to Deventh, that you made some points that were true and said person wanted to just run away instead of admitting it was true, the same person was doing the same thing on the link he/she sent to you with that other user.
You make some decent points but I think you are coming at the discussion from the point that you trust Clem and not why Javier should trust her. For every reason that he should, there is an equally good one as to why Javier should not. And in an apocalypse I would think people would err on the side of caution.
Plus as to the point that Clem didn't mean to shoot him, maybe she didn't but I remember a line from the first season "But know where your finger is at all times. And don't put it on the trigger unless you want to hurt somebody."
A shame Clem didn't remember Lee's words.
Then you must not have read it properly, or you can't respond properly because you'd have to agree to something you don't want to do.
IN all seriousness though,
But you didn't answer the question, was Eli holding the knife when Clementine pulled the trigger in his face?
I think it is hard sometimes to separate what you feel from what the characters should be feeling. I'm having a hard time of it I admit, I suspect Deventh is just having a harder time of it.
He does make some good points in the comments he linked me to, but seems biased to the 'good' interactions Javier has with Clem.
I seem to be in a very forgiving mood today. I suspect it'd be different if I was posting after work.
Lol yeah i can relate with work.
But it was only because you bought up some good actual facts, and he/she pretty much said "Nup, not gonna listen to this" so im gonna run away from the truth and said just keep believing yourself buddy as a sarcastic expression .
You're the one who said "we" without backing it up, just a vague "most of the community", which I'm still waiting to see btw. Most of what I read on the internet from the people who chose to shoot Conrad are Gabe, Conrad's increased foolishness since Francine's death and using a hostage to make a point which is NOT okay in my book and of course people who like Clementine for a variety of reasons. But you're right, let's just keep talking about Clementine's fans, because that's the most important right?
All she wanted was to find a car and go to Richmond, nothing else. It wasn't up to Javier or Conrad or anyone to decide for herself, hell if it wasn't Javier crying a river about his family she would be back on the road but my Clem is not revengeful and she wants to help people in need but she's making her own decisions, never taking sides in arguments same as with Lee. As for "lying", she did mention she was with the New Frontier for a time but it was "bad" so she got out and not mentioning AJ is the smartest thing to do in that situation so if Javier gets mad because she didn't tell him that piece of information, screw him, she doesn't owe those strangers anything. And for the record I didn't lie for her the first time because I want to help her to trust people again and that means no killing unless necessary.
Easy, same complaints. People complained because playing as Clementine wasn't the same as playing as Lee and now we have people complaining about Javier is different from playing as Clementine. Of course we also have telltale's misleading marketing about Clementine being "playable" for 2 short flashbacks, not even mentioning all the ruckus about those "42 starting points" that are basically non-existent so far, so people are complaining and they have only themselves to blame. I'm sure the next TWD games will have the same complaints. Michonne had this very same complaint too. Calling the people who reject Javier childish is kinda ironic considering you made a thread mostly to rant about Clementine's fans. So what if 90% of players didn't make your choice?
No but he wasn't unarmed like you claimed either, nice try though. He also nearly got her killed by giving her bullets that won't work, so he's clearly not innocent, context is always important and she clearly was shocked when the gun fired but I guess you don't care about that.
What the "we all know expression? Seriously? That's what you've got. Look all around this thread and tell me you don't see anyone saying It was something to do with Clementine.
I haven't just mentioned this Conrad choice, i have also mentioned the choice about lying for her. I think that choice is more one sided then the conrad decision that you lie for her. Tell me, whats the excuse there? Eli was a "asshole"?
You're right it wasn't their choice because as i remember correctly, it was HER who chose to cut the tree down and then take Javier hostage and blackmail him to give her his car. And see what i mean, through your rant, you still give shit to other characters because of her, claiming Javier was crying, so that means that Clementine was a crying a river for wanting to find her parents by your logic, wait let me guess, you gonna say it's okay for Clementine to cry, but not Javier right?
She lied about her mark of them thus lying about her involvement, she explains to Javier about them, yet doesn't tell him until they're in the tunnel, we are playing as Javier, how can he possibly trust her after that? How does he know she hasn't got anything else hidden up her sleeve? We don't even know because the game has only showed 2 episodes. If we say "oh but Clementine is nice blah blah blah" then it's our opinion, not facts.
From what i saw, it was people complaining more about the deaths of characters, time skips, short episodes and Kenny being in the spotlight. The Lee complaints were people trying to make stupid accusations that somehow Lee was alive. The only real complaints about Clementine was that it was unrealistic some of the stuff she could do. Javier's case is a lot more pathetic, people have said they want to reject him by favouring Clementine every way they can to try and get back at telltale for making Javier the player character. How many times did you see people in season 2 do that?
I suggest you go read what my thread actually detailed "I just finished Episode 2 and i can't believe that 90% of people chose to kill Conrad. I mean are people really going to kill a member of the group for suggesting a plan that could help the girls? I always knew more would opt to kill him because of Clementine, but to see 90%? Wow. I actually chose not to shoot him because i didn't want to kill a member of the group.
What's everyones thoughts?"
I never ranted about the fans, in fact i actually conceded that people would choose to kill him because of Clementine which was meant that no one would want to betray her, and i also asked for everyones thoughts, if i was ranting, i wouldn't of asked, it was only after seeing stupid posts on here about people shooting him because Clementine comes first, that i started to rant about the fans, so i accept your apology for misinterpreting what i actually said.
Haha don't lie buddy, he was unarmed, he pulled the knife out, then Javier put him back in his place, he begged to swap back the batteries, but Clementine wouldn't listen, she cocks the gun, points it right at his face and pulls the trigger, she could've pointed it at the ground or in the air but she pointed it at his face. No one said he was innocent, innocent an unarmed ain't the same thing. It doesn't change what she did, Remember what Lee said to her in teaching her how to shoot? "But know where your finger is at all times. And don't put it on the trigger unless you want to hurt somebody." Nice to see she listened to Lee. But it's Clementine, she always has an excuse right ?
True, she could've handled the situation differently regarding pointing the gun. Can't say I am sad Eli took a way out of life though.
Don't forget she was willing to let him go until he asked her to help him to come back to his family which she was in no way obliged to listen and then literally 2 minutes later she frees him from the restraint which is odd considering her untrusting behavior toward strangers. That's funny because I tried many times to tell Clem the truth about her parents but it seemed like the game didn't want me to, go figure. I didn't want to lie to her.
She is no longer part of the New Frontier thus she has no more obligation to them therefore that argument doesn't have any weight. I'm Javier, if I found out a person was part of a bad group but that he/she got out, I wouldn't want to force that person to come with us just to benefit MY desire. I also saw a toddler in her flashbacks who is no longer with her in the present, it's all the information I need about how bad things were for them. That's like people trusting Jesus because we see him in the comics so we know he's trustworthy.
You forgot the complaints about her not having personality but you're correct and I see you didn't address telltale's misleading marketing which is basically the bulk of the complaints.
I'm pretty sure I said I didn't lie for her but nice try though.
I laughed.
I admit I did that too with Jesus. I mean, Javier just met this shady looking guy that tricked him and pointed a gun to his head yet I still decided to choose to trust him because he's one of the good guys in the comics.
Its a game ladies
Ha-Ha-Ha. The moment you say we go with plan. Get out of the pan, you are still able to say fuck the plan. Ha-Ha-Ha. Best thing Telltale ever did.
I'll spell it out for you.
"Clementine picture : Check." Here you are attacking their choice of avatar, not their post.
"Sticking up for Clementine for shooting a unarmed man in cold blood : Check." Here you're attacking them for their opinion instead of actually addressing what is wrong with their argument. Also, whether or not it was in 'cold blood' is the premise of the posters argument, but you asserted it in your statement as if it were not the premise but an agreed upon fact, without providing an argument for it yourself.
"Justifying her actions : Check." Yes, and...
"Yep we have one guys." argumentum ad hominem.
Conrad took a hostage to force you to do exactly what he wanted.
Clementine did the exact same thing when she forced you at gun point to agree to give her your van.
But here's the crucial difference for me: When Clem takes you hostage, you are not a member of her group; you are a stranger who could be dangerous in a world where resources are extremely scarce and during the time you're together, she risks her butt to help you out.
Conrad takes a GROUP member hostage to coerce another group member into betraying a different group member and point's his gun at all three. The fact he has no problem threatening group members makes him unpredictable and dangerous and I have no reason to think he wouldn't do it again.
Clem's flaky as fuck, but at least her behavior is predictable and was not a direct threat to javi or his kin at the time, whereas Conrad's behavior was.
If you're not gonna look out for the people you're with, then you shouldn't be with them. Unless you're a sociopath, then you can just use and dispose of people as you see fit.
While I did shoot Conrad because of Clementine, it's very understandable to shoot and neutralize him because he has his (Javi's) nephew at gun point, and tried to force you into agreeing. (Shooting both of you if staying silent just underlines the choice to shoot him).
Andy is an entirely different matter. He tried to kill Lee on the electrical fence, Lee manages to fend him off, and beats him to pulp in the heat, NOT killing him. BTW, you don't get the option to back off of Andy.
After beating him down, it's over for him. What else can he do? No gun, no power to beat down any one of the group. He's done for and no threat at all; even more so while walkers are shuffling towards all of them.
I didn't shoot Andy, because there was no need to. I also didn't kill Danny with the fork in the barn. He was done for, why accelerate the process?
Conrad, as mentioned, was holding a gun to someone else's head and was able to end his life at any point in time. Reaction was crucial to the situation. Now whether or not you do it for Clem and/or Gabe is irrelevant. The difference is: Andy was done for after the beating, and Conrad is an actual threat.
Exactly what you said, she doesn't feel obliged to but then she decides to cut him free and blackmail him saying well i know you need to get to your family and the car is your ticket to survival, but im going to just blackmail and steal it when too be honest Javier had a right not to trust her. I was only going by your logic that you said Javier was crying over his family, so it must mean so was Clementine when she first met Lee.
We don't know that yet, all we know is that she was a part of them, we can't trust her yet. She runs off if you kill Conrad, why is she so against being noticed by them? It has nothing to do with our desire, it's the fact that she lied, so she cant be trusted, if we use her because she's been there, it might help save the girls, for me it's time to look out for the other characters, not just Clementine.
the misleading markertings been there since season 1 , remember the trailers that were completly different to the actual episodes? Kinda like her personality and actions in season 3? Ill be honest, ive seen people complain about season 2, but not as much as you, you hate the season that much?
You said he wasn't unarmed like i said he was, which was what ? i said was Eli holding a knife when he was shot? He wasn,t so he was unarmed. Did you see any weapons on him? So what am i nice trying about?
What about that Lee quote to her about shooting? She didn't listen to what Lee taught apparently, or that she did, and she was intending on hurting Eli.