OK, I can work with that.
I first started watching Let's Plays to TWD S1 and S2, and earlier this year played/Let's Played S1 and S2 myself and that just confirmed my attachment to Clementine, I also very much liked Lee.
Now that TWD ANF came out, I am a "newcomer" to the forums so to speak, and discuss, like you do now. I don't know if that adds to my "TTG experience" or not. But I enjoy it so far.
As I admitted before, I shot Conrad for both mainly Clementine and Gabe. Which is biased, I know. But I can't help knowing what I know. But it's cool, it doesn't diminish my experience.
I'm sorry, I know people care for her a lot, but there are some characters that I just can't get invested on
I don't dislike her, and I … moredon't think that she is a bad character by any means. I think she is well-written, I think her voice acting is great, but I just don't care for her any more than I would care for any other character.
I think it is mostly because I didn't "do the waiting" on the first two seasons. I bought the whole seasons when everything was out, and I think that greatly diminished my enjoyment of both of the seasons and also my attachment to the characters. The only character I really, really cared for was Luke. Maybe Lee. Today, I consider the waiting between episodes and discussing them in the forums absolutely essential to the "TellTale experience".
Oh well at least he doesn't have to put up with the horror of walking dead fanfiction new frontier any more.
Seriously though, why in the… more hell would ANY players give a shit about this random guy and his wife dying or possibly consider siding with him over Clementine with a plan that sounds dumb even if you've just met both characters.
I agreed with Conrad because I didn't want any bloodshed. I was hoping we could lie to him to let him cool down but when Javier actually gav… moree Clemntine to the New Frontier, I was like "well, shit". It had taught me to take responsibility for my words.
I still don't know whether I should redo this choice or not. I do regret it, but changing my playthrough seems like cheating.
I don't think it is bad if you shoot Conrad for Clementine. Some people play the game as themselves, some as the characters, and both ways are fine. As long as you are enjoying the ride, anything goes.
In one episode of A Game of Thrones, I tried to stab a canon character even though I knew nothing was going to happen. I knew it was a stupid choice, but I went for it exactly because I knew I wouldn't actually kill said character - it would either be a "game over" scene or I would just fail. I'm trying to stop doing that, because I think it might be one of the reasons why I hate GoT (especially the last two episodes) so much. I played as myself, got too involved and then got really mad when the plot holes became obvious on the last two episodes. Now I try to play as the characters to see if I like it more ("try", since sometimes I still make decisions as myself, like staying in the junkyard because I just wanted to shoot the people who shoot Mariana so much).
OK, I can work with that.
I first started watching Let's Plays to TWD S1 and S2, and earlier this year played/Let's Played S1 and S2 myself… more and that just confirmed my attachment to Clementine, I also very much liked Lee.
Now that TWD ANF came out, I am a "newcomer" to the forums so to speak, and discuss, like you do now. I don't know if that adds to my "TTG experience" or not. But I enjoy it so far.
As I admitted before, I shot Conrad for both mainly Clementine and Gabe. Which is biased, I know. But I can't help knowing what I know. But it's cool, it doesn't diminish my experience.
Yeah I get what you're saying.
While I didn't play GOT, I'd definitely try to stab that bastard Ramsay, even though if I was one of his group (hypothetically).
I stayed at the junkyard because I thought it might be wise to give covering fire instead just going too. Tripp is tough enough (if you went with him) to protect them.
And of course I wanted to help out Clem. She's skilled, but not Rambo.
I don't think it is bad if you shoot Conrad for Clementine. Some people play the game as themselves, some as the characters, and both ways a… morere fine. As long as you are enjoying the ride, anything goes.
In one episode of A Game of Thrones, I tried to stab a canon character even though I knew nothing was going to happen. I knew it was a stupid choice, but I went for it exactly because I knew I wouldn't actually kill said character - it would either be a "game over" scene or I would just fail. I'm trying to stop doing that, because I think it might be one of the reasons why I hate GoT (especially the last two episodes) so much. I played as myself, got too involved and then got really mad when the plot holes became obvious on the last two episodes. Now I try to play as the characters to see if I like it more ("try", since sometimes I still make decisions as myself, like staying in the junkyard because I just wanted to shoot the people who shoot Mariana so much).
One reoccurring problem in the first two episodes was several people just blindly siding with clementine no matter if she's right or wrong because it's clementine and that's it.
One reoccurring problem in the first two episodes was several people just blindly siding with clementine no matter if she's right or wrong because it's clementine and that's it.
I admit most of my decisions are based on my knowledge about Clementine. And that might be in her favour most of the time.
But that's the hard part being a seasoned player and playing a new character that gets confronted with a known, loved one (at least by me).
I don't judge others though if they don't decide in Clem's favour, etc. That's all cool by me.
Her covering us, no, her trying to encourage us to stay with her and not go help his family, yes. Family comes first, Kate was seriously hurt still don't know if she will make it, his niece was just shot, and Clementine says stay and fight, why? We had plenty of time to get revenge, Kate's life was the main concern and Gabes safety to.
And again, why did he grab Gabe? to try to convince Javier to take hostage CLEMENTINE. If she told the truth at the start, it would never of happened because like i said, Conrads girlfriend was still alive, he wouldn't of reacted the way he did.
How is it throwing her under the bus when she wanted him to lie for her? And don't forget, she was only taking him back to his family to take his car, and to leave them stranded at the junkyard with no car or supplies.
Not the point, point is that she panics when she realises what Richmond has, and she tries to get out of it, she shows no respect for anyone but herself.
And so are, what's your point ?
If people have reasonable reasons why, thats fine but to say "Oh well no one is mean toClementine". That's childish. If she lies, she deserves ill treatment. It's glorifying liars to be able to get away with lying because people are biased towards them.
Haha not even clutching pal, because her lies caused Conrad to flip out, like i said, had she told the truth at the start, that would never of happened. She just didn't think anyone was listening, that's why. Lol wow so he says it can help Kate, but says it will help both of us, so that's bad is it? Did he say it will help Kate or not? He grabbed Gabe to convince Javier better and what was the reason why? Because of Clementine. Im not sayying it's good to Grab Gabe, but had Clementine been honest from the start, it would never of happened.
Repeat, you can believe what you want to believe, and you haven't given me any convincing arguments yet, because im still convinced that her lying was the reason why it all happened, you just can't admit it, because you give her the benefit of the doubt like lying about her involvement and the benefit of the doubt with killing Eli. What else are you gonna expect from a biased fan?
You know, the same thing can be said about you. You just can't seem to let this girl catch a break, everything she does seems to be negative… more. I suppose she staying behind to cover for you and your family was bad too, right.
It's not about if he shot Gabe or not. It's about him pointing a gun at his head, threatening his life, to make Javier agree with his plan. I didn't say Eli deserved to get shot. I didn't say what Clementine did was right. I simply said she didn't mean to do it, it was an accident. My Javier didn't see a reason to be a self-righteous asshole and throw her under the bus when she was the one who was going to take him back to his family. That's my opinion. Do with it as you please.
She doesn't run off because you killed Conrad. Are you even reading what I'm writing? And have you actually listened to what she said when she told the truth? She said she was going to leave even before Conrad pointed a gun at her. She said s… [view original content]
That was because he panicked with how many walkers were in there, they had no knowledge how many were in there. When you panic, you don't think straight.
If she lies about that, how do we know we can trust her? We can't, we either don't trust her or we do because we're playing as if we' ve know her for 3 seasons, Javier barely knows her, so he shouldn't be expected to trust her.
Same with me a bit, Lee gave her advice on how to use the gun and only aim the gun at people if you want to hurt them, Clementine in the previous seasons wouldn't of aimed a gun a mans head when he was unarmed.
I just think that people let it fly because they love her so much, like she can do no wrong. My thread on here was that i was surprised how manyn people shot the guy, i also said i expected it to be more towards shooting him because of Clementine, but i never expected 90%, i was thinking like 70%, but not that overwhelming.
I agree he'll probably die in the next episode given his status, but we don't know Clementines involvement with them, so i guess we just have to wait. If it turns out she's decent, ill gladly say i got it wrong.
I can definitively say the saying the truth got her in trouble, that's why Conrad completely lost it. Actually he started to lost it a littl… moree earlier when he fired a goddamn shotgun in a tunnel full of walkers. That, to me is much more dangerous to the group than Clementine not saying the whole truth. Actually I can accept lies if telling the truth that could endanger the safety of loved ones, and clearly Clem is hiding AJ's existence to the group and for good reason. I clearly don't share your view that lying is a criminal offense but to each his own, I guess.
I hope telltale is going to show me something that makes me believe that this is the character I shaped in 2 seasons. Why and how did she change so much that she acts more like Jane when that's not how I played her at all.
Again if people choose to act because they act Clementine, that's their reason. Where's the harm in that? In season 1 we acted as a father figure to her, then … [view original content]
Im just saying that if someone does something like that, people get outraged and want to kill the characters, but telltale were smart, they made it that if you do kill them Clementine will see it and people don't want her at the time to see it. If she wasn't there or it didn't matter, the majority would've killed them,
It can be argued that killing Conrad is revenge to, for what he was doing towards Gabe. His holding him hostage and if people are saying they killed him because of Gabe, that's Vengeance. You're killing the guy because you want revenge for him grabbing Gabe. Threat or no threat, it still is revenge.
With the difference being we weren't able to act in the instance they grabbed Clementine by the hair. If we had a gun in the dining room I b… moreet my ass people would've shot Andy and Danny because it was an immediate threat.
You might not see a difference there, I do. I differentiate between immediate threat, and past threats.
As in Conrad is an immediate threat, whether or not you agree with the plan objectively, and Andy/Danny were a past threat. Killing them then, while being incapacitated, would be vengeance.
Is that where his held hostage when he goes down? If that's one scene, then anyone else could've taken that shot, Tripp, Conrad etc. I don't know if that is the scene you're talking about or not.
There is one point though. When she got a car, and brought Javier back to Prescott, she could've just left if she didn't give a shit. But wh… moreat did she do? She waited at the car, probably for Javier giving the OK. She could've left then and avoided The New Frontier, which would've resulted in Javier's death, because Clementine was the one who took the shot on the woman that held a gun to Javi's head.
How am I doing that, exactly? Because I said that "You don't know why people do what they do, you can only know what they told you"? This is… more not "pretending to know what goes in people's heads", this is a fact, unless you are a mind reader and actually do know what goes in other people's heads.
I am going exactly by what people are saying their motives are, while telling you my own, while you are accusing people of lying about their motives. When someone says their reasons to do something are X, and you say "no, your actual reasons are Y", you ARE pretending you know what goes in their heads, while you do not. I did not at any point say the motives of anyone were different from what they said they were. You are not only doing that, you are actually being extremely rude and offensive while doing that.
That's exactly what I'm saying. You made up a justification for what they did as to try to align two completely different situations and c… [view original content]
Clementine can kill Gabe in cold blood and people would still love her. I had someone say to me that if she held him at gunpoint like Conrad, they wouldn't kill her. Double standards.
One reoccurring problem in the first two episodes was several people just blindly siding with clementine no matter if she's right or wrong because it's clementine and that's it.
This is the problem of the game. Javier doesn't know Clementine and he isn't supposed to care about her at all, but the player does so it kinda spoils the game.
One reoccurring problem in the first two episodes was several people just blindly siding with clementine no matter if she's right or wrong because it's clementine and that's it.
Clementine can kill Gabe in cold blood and people would still love her. I had someone say to me that if she held him at gunpoint like Conrad, they wouldn't kill her. Double standards.
I said it once i will say it again it's called The Will of Clem were we as the player chose (at least in are first blind playthrough) Clementine safety over any thing we believe Javier would do in said situation. Everyone at some point in there game has fallen under The Will of Clem and don't lie and say you haven't because you have and you know it. The Will of Clem is far to powerful for any mere mortal to overcome at least in there first play though anyways.
It was a good argument until the last part. No the will of Clementine is not powerful for us to not be able to overcome.
Ill be honest unlike a lot of these Clementine fans. When i first played the walking dead, i protected Clementine just like Duck because they needed protecting because they can't defend themselves. But i was never biased towards her, if she did something wrong i would tell her thats not on, if she did something good , i would compliment her. She was treated equally like the others. I play as the character, not my experience. And her lying to Javier and killing Eli the way she did, granted no sign of me respecting or trusting her, given the fact that she wanted to take the car and leave Javier and his family stranded, im not gonna go "Oh, but it's Clementine, ill just agree with her because she's so special". No, whoever the character is, if that deceive you, they can't be trusted. If they do something that is miscarriage of justice, they deserve the punishment, we don't play favourites.
I said it once i will say it again it's called The Will of Clem were we as the player chose (at least in are first blind playthrough) Clemen… moretine safety over any thing we believe Javier would do in said situation. Everyone at some point in there game has fallen under The Will of Clem and don't lie and say you haven't because you have and you know it. The Will of Clem is far to powerful for any mere mortal to overcome at least in there first play though anyways.
So at no point in all of episode 1 and 2 you never made an instinct choice to help Clem because its Clem. I don't buy it. O sure i can believe you chose not to shoot Conrad as that is such and extreme moment you may realize what is happening and come to a clearer solution but there are so many moments that happen all of a sudden and you just react like to ask for Clem's help in saving your family the first time or staying back and helping her fend of the bandits at the end of episode 1 or just when your talking to her normally with no stakes at hand. It's human instinct to just react differently to people you know even if its playing a game with another character or not. Now moments like when she shoots that one guy are so in your face with that choice you can see more clearly then possibly others but its the moments that you don't think to hard about that can make you go back and say o wait yea i did or said that cause i know them more and not what you think was the right roelplay moment for the character your playing.
It was a good argument until the last part. No the will of Clementine is not powerful for us to not be able to overcome.
Ill be honest unli… moreke a lot of these Clementine fans. When i first played the walking dead, i protected Clementine just like Duck because they needed protecting because they can't defend themselves. But i was never biased towards her, if she did something wrong i would tell her thats not on, if she did something good , i would compliment her. She was treated equally like the others. I play as the character, not my experience. And her lying to Javier and killing Eli the way she did, granted no sign of me respecting or trusting her, given the fact that she wanted to take the car and leave Javier and his family stranded, im not gonna go "Oh, but it's Clementine, ill just agree with her because she's so special". No, whoever the character is, if that deceive you, they can't be trusted. If they do something that is miscarriage of justice, they deserve the punishment, we don't play favourites.
Yeah and Conrad wanted Javier to go down. He didn't care what happens to Javier if he gets Francine back (which is reasonable). But they didn't take the shot. Clementine did. Because she assessed the situation correctly.
Is that where his held hostage when he goes down? If that's one scene, then anyone else could've taken that shot, Tripp, Conrad etc. I don't know if that is the scene you're talking about or not.
This is gonna be a little out of order and I'm not gonna address all of it because frankly I'm just too lazy.
"Considering Javier was bounded, he was no threat to her, she had a gun on him..." Sure he was, I would have been if I was in Javi's position, I saw plenty of opportunities to take that shotty from her. She was trying to make him as small a threat as possible and she was looking out for herself first, absolutely, no question there; but that shit's standard fair in this universe, so I don't take it personally. You look out for your people in TWD and I wasn't one of her people yet and she wasn't one of mine so I had no loyalty to her at that point either. So for me, this exchange doesn't factor into my decision to kill Conrad.
"...her plan is to leave them stranded a lone with no food or water or car." No car, yes, but stranded, alone with no food or water? I've seen nothing to lead me to believe that would be the case. She could just as easily take them back to Prescott. She, infact, does take you back to Prescott if you fight with her. Considering that she doesn't even take the candy bar if you ask her not to, I don't think she would leave them without any food or water. Pure Conjecture
"Okay first off, not by choice means forced to be with them, she wasn't forced, she went on her own free will" No Shit, that's literally what I just said. My point was that this lie hasn't hurt you in any way (other than your feelings). You also said you chose the 'Go with Family' option, so on your playthrough she never even told you this lie, so what are you complaining about.
"Had she been straight up from the start, i highly doubt Javier would be as mad as when she told him later on, also, this was before the girls went to Richmond by themselves, so how do you know Conrad would use her?" You missed the point. first: I didn't say 'Conrad,' I said 'you.' The whole point of what I said was, if she told you about her connection to TNF at the start, that knowledge wouldn't change anything about your situation other than you would know that giving her to TNF was an option sooner. See what I'm saying?
"Lee never mentioned the killing to anyone of the group..." Which makes it a lie of omission. The subject comes up; the drug store and Hershel's farm come to mind. And for the sake of argument, I'm gonna assume that this is a playthrough where you're choosing the most honest dialogue option you can. "He gets confronted about it by Carley because she's a reporter," She confronts him while he's right in the middle of trying to hide evidence of his identity. Such honesty. "...he never says to the group "there was a incident where my wife cheated on me with the senator" and then later says "by the way, i killed the guy"." Lol ...Moving on. "He does say he was on his way to prison but that was to Hershel and Hershel asks him who he was with, nothing to do with why." None of the options let you tell Hershel you were on your way to prison. The only options are: Home, Out of Atlanta, Just Out and Nowhere, all of which are lies so this statement is false. Lee also lies to Doug when Doug asks if he knows the walker trapped under the telephone pole. He also tears the picture of his family in half, so the group won't find out who he is. These are blatant acts of deception. So do you think a lie of omission counts as a lie? Or do you think that what Lee did and said doesn't constitute a lie of omission? "Clementine on the other hand talks about the frontier about how they are and what they do, then says "hey, i was one of them" it's 2 different things." No, it isn't. Again, you said you didn't choose the stand and fight option, so she didn't even tell you anything about them at all in your playthrough other than their name. So if you apply the same standard of judgment for Clem that you did for Lee, she comes off even more honest than he does. ...How the hell did this guy get me to harshly criticize Lee?
"She leaves us, she showed no care for the 2 women, only herself, how you can she cares when she does that is beyond me." I never made that argument, so quit strawmaning.
This Conversation is really making me want to shoot Conrad.
Considering Javier was bounded, he was no threat to her, she had a gun on him, and i get the fact we dont have a decision for Clementine to … morewalk away and leave, but we play as the game tells the story, and the story is that she didn't want to at first, but then decided to but blackmailed Javier that she'll take his car which you have the option to say that they need the car for survival. She's really doing none of them a favour, she takes him back to his family, but her plan is to leave them stranded a lone with no food or water or car. Not really caring considering she wants people caring for her i.e lie about Eli and shoot Conrad.
Well actually, she tells you after Javiers niece gets shot, and it's her choice to tell you, so it's her own doing and i chose to go with the family and had no scene of her telling me yet the game still played as if she did. Too her you're betraying her because she will always think that if you choose against h… [view original content]
This is gonna be a little out of order and I'm not gonna address all of it because frankly I'm just too lazy.
"Considering Javier was bou… morended, he was no threat to her, she had a gun on him..." Sure he was, I would have been if I was in Javi's position, I saw plenty of opportunities to take that shotty from her. She was trying to make him as small a threat as possible and she was looking out for herself first, absolutely, no question there; but that shit's standard fair in this universe, so I don't take it personally. You look out for your people in TWD and I wasn't one of her people yet and she wasn't one of mine so I had no loyalty to her at that point either. So for me, this exchange doesn't factor into my decision to kill Conrad.
"...her plan is to leave them stranded a lone with no food or water or car." No car, yes, but stranded, alone with no food or water? I've seen nothing to lead me to believe that would be the case. She could … [view original content]
That's rich dude, really. Because my opinion isn't a biased Clementine fan, it's them who have the false impression. Tell me, you're not th… moreat naive. Everytime someone has a opinion that isn't biased towards her, they cop shit. Don't believe me? Look at this thread, look at the youtube comments of people saying something negative about her. This person commented on here attacking me because said person is a Clementine fan, if i didn't say nothing negative, they wouldn't of said anything.
I don't need to argue, because when someone types what they believe, but can't respond back, then i know it was just a typical "ill post a comment, but then ill be too scared to reply" because people are scared of confrontations real life and internet. This person can reply back at anytime but choose not to but ill be in your little mind youll say "Oh, but you didn't write a response, you bashed them ,so why should they reply". White knight alert.
Ill m… [view original content]
Probably. He kind of invited the shit posting. I don't know what he got banned for, so I can't really say what I feel about that. Just hope it was nothing too serious and gets cleared up quick and easy.
people really going to kill a member of the group for suggesting a plan that could help the girls?
I kill anybody who tries mess around with my Clem. No matter what.
It's not a RPG game with a ton of dialogue, i can't "play in character", it is so fucking stupid, it's fucking qte-movie-'game' where your decisions not on impact, at least i want make my best for Clem.
In the moment, I was more worried about how I might have screwed up by choosing to shoot at a man holding a hostage. And I would rather just agree with Conrad just to get him to let Gabe go and not go shooting anyone. "It's not like Clem's going to be killed by the New Frontier," I thought. "They want her back or something."
Spot on.
I think what a lot of fans don't look at because they're so biased, is that the new frontier were the one's who killed Conrad's pa… morertner, and like you said, with Clementine's uneven reputation and hearing that she lied about being with the same group that killed his girlfriend and a group she fought against, anyone could see his reason for lashing out and also her shooting Eli in his bar as well. The moment where he blames Javier is him not thinking straight and having processed what has happened, he saves Javier from being killed by walkers when he could've easily had just left him there.
Also too that Tripp is fond of Conrad and if you kill Conrad and Tripp asks, he gets mad and upset about losing a friend, i get that holding Gabe at gunpoint was bad, but killing him is killing another life and it could've been avoided had Clementine told the truth from the start, he only grabbed Gabe because of Clementine.
Too be honest, i a… [view original content]
Comments
OK, I can work with that.
I first started watching Let's Plays to TWD S1 and S2, and earlier this year played/Let's Played S1 and S2 myself and that just confirmed my attachment to Clementine, I also very much liked Lee.
Now that TWD ANF came out, I am a "newcomer" to the forums so to speak, and discuss, like you do now. I don't know if that adds to my "TTG experience" or not. But I enjoy it so far.
As I admitted before, I shot Conrad for both mainly Clementine and Gabe. Which is biased, I know. But I can't help knowing what I know. But it's cool, it doesn't diminish my experience.
Put it this way;
Why would anyone give a shit about you (a random guy) and your loved one dying right in front of you?
I also find a hint of irony in this because if we didn't know a damn thing about Clementine, we ALL would be singing a much more different song.
My Javi might have gone along with it if Conrad hadn't held Gabe hostage. Anybody who fucks with his family dies.
I hope Conrad will take a "Nick on the fence" treatment.
I don't think it is bad if you shoot Conrad for Clementine. Some people play the game as themselves, some as the characters, and both ways are fine. As long as you are enjoying the ride, anything goes.
In one episode of A Game of Thrones, I tried to stab a canon character even though I knew nothing was going to happen. I knew it was a stupid choice, but I went for it exactly because I knew I wouldn't actually kill said character - it would either be a "game over" scene or I would just fail. I'm trying to stop doing that, because I think it might be one of the reasons why I hate GoT (especially the last two episodes) so much. I played as myself, got too involved and then got really mad when the plot holes became obvious on the last two episodes. Now I try to play as the characters to see if I like it more ("try", since sometimes I still make decisions as myself, like staying in the junkyard because I just wanted to shoot the people who shoot Mariana so much).
Yeah I get what you're saying.
While I didn't play GOT, I'd definitely try to stab that bastard Ramsay, even though if I was one of his group (hypothetically).
I stayed at the junkyard because I thought it might be wise to give covering fire instead just going too. Tripp is tough enough (if you went with him) to protect them.
And of course I wanted to help out Clem. She's skilled, but not Rambo.
One reoccurring problem in the first two episodes was several people just blindly siding with clementine no matter if she's right or wrong because it's clementine and that's it.
Yeah. I'm not one of those people.
Fortunately not everyone is like that but a large portion of people are
I admit most of my decisions are based on my knowledge about Clementine. And that might be in her favour most of the time.
But that's the hard part being a seasoned player and playing a new character that gets confronted with a known, loved one (at least by me).
I don't judge others though if they don't decide in Clem's favour, etc. That's all cool by me.
Her covering us, no, her trying to encourage us to stay with her and not go help his family, yes. Family comes first, Kate was seriously hurt still don't know if she will make it, his niece was just shot, and Clementine says stay and fight, why? We had plenty of time to get revenge, Kate's life was the main concern and Gabes safety to.
And again, why did he grab Gabe? to try to convince Javier to take hostage CLEMENTINE. If she told the truth at the start, it would never of happened because like i said, Conrads girlfriend was still alive, he wouldn't of reacted the way he did.
How is it throwing her under the bus when she wanted him to lie for her? And don't forget, she was only taking him back to his family to take his car, and to leave them stranded at the junkyard with no car or supplies.
Not the point, point is that she panics when she realises what Richmond has, and she tries to get out of it, she shows no respect for anyone but herself.
And so are, what's your point ?
If people have reasonable reasons why, thats fine but to say "Oh well no one is mean toClementine". That's childish. If she lies, she deserves ill treatment. It's glorifying liars to be able to get away with lying because people are biased towards them.
Haha not even clutching pal, because her lies caused Conrad to flip out, like i said, had she told the truth at the start, that would never of happened. She just didn't think anyone was listening, that's why. Lol wow so he says it can help Kate, but says it will help both of us, so that's bad is it? Did he say it will help Kate or not? He grabbed Gabe to convince Javier better and what was the reason why? Because of Clementine. Im not sayying it's good to Grab Gabe, but had Clementine been honest from the start, it would never of happened.
Repeat, you can believe what you want to believe, and you haven't given me any convincing arguments yet, because im still convinced that her lying was the reason why it all happened, you just can't admit it, because you give her the benefit of the doubt like lying about her involvement and the benefit of the doubt with killing Eli. What else are you gonna expect from a biased fan?
That was because he panicked with how many walkers were in there, they had no knowledge how many were in there. When you panic, you don't think straight.
If she lies about that, how do we know we can trust her? We can't, we either don't trust her or we do because we're playing as if we' ve know her for 3 seasons, Javier barely knows her, so he shouldn't be expected to trust her.
Same with me a bit, Lee gave her advice on how to use the gun and only aim the gun at people if you want to hurt them, Clementine in the previous seasons wouldn't of aimed a gun a mans head when he was unarmed.
I just think that people let it fly because they love her so much, like she can do no wrong. My thread on here was that i was surprised how manyn people shot the guy, i also said i expected it to be more towards shooting him because of Clementine, but i never expected 90%, i was thinking like 70%, but not that overwhelming.
I agree he'll probably die in the next episode given his status, but we don't know Clementines involvement with them, so i guess we just have to wait. If it turns out she's decent, ill gladly say i got it wrong.
Im just saying that if someone does something like that, people get outraged and want to kill the characters, but telltale were smart, they made it that if you do kill them Clementine will see it and people don't want her at the time to see it. If she wasn't there or it didn't matter, the majority would've killed them,
It can be argued that killing Conrad is revenge to, for what he was doing towards Gabe. His holding him hostage and if people are saying they killed him because of Gabe, that's Vengeance. You're killing the guy because you want revenge for him grabbing Gabe. Threat or no threat, it still is revenge.
Is that where his held hostage when he goes down? If that's one scene, then anyone else could've taken that shot, Tripp, Conrad etc. I don't know if that is the scene you're talking about or not.
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Clementine can kill Gabe in cold blood and people would still love her. I had someone say to me that if she held him at gunpoint like Conrad, they wouldn't kill her. Double standards.
This is the problem of the game. Javier doesn't know Clementine and he isn't supposed to care about her at all, but the player does so it kinda spoils the game.
someone say to me that if she held him at gunpoint like Conrad, they wouldn't kill her
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I said it once i will say it again it's called The Will of Clem were we as the player chose (at least in are first blind playthrough) Clementine safety over any thing we believe Javier would do in said situation. Everyone at some point in there game has fallen under The Will of Clem and don't lie and say you haven't because you have and you know it. The Will of Clem is far to powerful for any mere mortal to overcome at least in there first play though anyways.
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It was a good argument until the last part. No the will of Clementine is not powerful for us to not be able to overcome.
Ill be honest unlike a lot of these Clementine fans. When i first played the walking dead, i protected Clementine just like Duck because they needed protecting because they can't defend themselves. But i was never biased towards her, if she did something wrong i would tell her thats not on, if she did something good , i would compliment her. She was treated equally like the others. I play as the character, not my experience. And her lying to Javier and killing Eli the way she did, granted no sign of me respecting or trusting her, given the fact that she wanted to take the car and leave Javier and his family stranded, im not gonna go "Oh, but it's Clementine, ill just agree with her because she's so special". No, whoever the character is, if that deceive you, they can't be trusted. If they do something that is miscarriage of justice, they deserve the punishment, we don't play favourites.
So at no point in all of episode 1 and 2 you never made an instinct choice to help Clem because its Clem. I don't buy it. O sure i can believe you chose not to shoot Conrad as that is such and extreme moment you may realize what is happening and come to a clearer solution but there are so many moments that happen all of a sudden and you just react like to ask for Clem's help in saving your family the first time or staying back and helping her fend of the bandits at the end of episode 1 or just when your talking to her normally with no stakes at hand. It's human instinct to just react differently to people you know even if its playing a game with another character or not. Now moments like when she shoots that one guy are so in your face with that choice you can see more clearly then possibly others but its the moments that you don't think to hard about that can make you go back and say o wait yea i did or said that cause i know them more and not what you think was the right roelplay moment for the character your playing.
Yeah and Conrad wanted Javier to go down. He didn't care what happens to Javier if he gets Francine back (which is reasonable). But they didn't take the shot. Clementine did. Because she assessed the situation correctly.
This is gonna be a little out of order and I'm not gonna address all of it because frankly I'm just too lazy.
"Considering Javier was bounded, he was no threat to her, she had a gun on him..." Sure he was, I would have been if I was in Javi's position, I saw plenty of opportunities to take that shotty from her. She was trying to make him as small a threat as possible and she was looking out for herself first, absolutely, no question there; but that shit's standard fair in this universe, so I don't take it personally. You look out for your people in TWD and I wasn't one of her people yet and she wasn't one of mine so I had no loyalty to her at that point either. So for me, this exchange doesn't factor into my decision to kill Conrad.
"...her plan is to leave them stranded a lone with no food or water or car." No car, yes, but stranded, alone with no food or water? I've seen nothing to lead me to believe that would be the case. She could just as easily take them back to Prescott. She, infact, does take you back to Prescott if you fight with her. Considering that she doesn't even take the candy bar if you ask her not to, I don't think she would leave them without any food or water. Pure Conjecture
"Okay first off, not by choice means forced to be with them, she wasn't forced, she went on her own free will" No Shit, that's literally what I just said. My point was that this lie hasn't hurt you in any way (other than your feelings). You also said you chose the 'Go with Family' option, so on your playthrough she never even told you this lie, so what are you complaining about.
"Had she been straight up from the start, i highly doubt Javier would be as mad as when she told him later on, also, this was before the girls went to Richmond by themselves, so how do you know Conrad would use her?" You missed the point. first: I didn't say 'Conrad,' I said 'you.' The whole point of what I said was, if she told you about her connection to TNF at the start, that knowledge wouldn't change anything about your situation other than you would know that giving her to TNF was an option sooner. See what I'm saying?
"Lee never mentioned the killing to anyone of the group..." Which makes it a lie of omission. The subject comes up; the drug store and Hershel's farm come to mind. And for the sake of argument, I'm gonna assume that this is a playthrough where you're choosing the most honest dialogue option you can. "He gets confronted about it by Carley because she's a reporter," She confronts him while he's right in the middle of trying to hide evidence of his identity. Such honesty. "...he never says to the group "there was a incident where my wife cheated on me with the senator" and then later says "by the way, i killed the guy"." Lol ...Moving on. "He does say he was on his way to prison but that was to Hershel and Hershel asks him who he was with, nothing to do with why." None of the options let you tell Hershel you were on your way to prison. The only options are: Home, Out of Atlanta, Just Out and Nowhere, all of which are lies so this statement is false. Lee also lies to Doug when Doug asks if he knows the walker trapped under the telephone pole. He also tears the picture of his family in half, so the group won't find out who he is. These are blatant acts of deception. So do you think a lie of omission counts as a lie? Or do you think that what Lee did and said doesn't constitute a lie of omission? "Clementine on the other hand talks about the frontier about how they are and what they do, then says "hey, i was one of them" it's 2 different things." No, it isn't. Again, you said you didn't choose the stand and fight option, so she didn't even tell you anything about them at all in your playthrough other than their name. So if you apply the same standard of judgment for Clem that you did for Lee, she comes off even more honest than he does. ...How the hell did this guy get me to harshly criticize Lee?
"She leaves us, she showed no care for the 2 women, only herself, how you can she cares when she does that is beyond me." I never made that argument, so quit strawmaning.
This Conversation is really making me want to shoot Conrad.
PS: Why did he get banned?
I have no idea but after that he'd have quit anyway. I fully agree.
Ok, then.
Probably. He kind of invited the shit posting. I don't know what he got banned for, so I can't really say what I feel about that. Just hope it was nothing too serious and gets cleared up quick and easy.
I'm just gonna leave this here... go to 9:49
What surprises me is that you wouldn't shoot a guy who would turn on the group.
I kill anybody who tries mess around with my Clem. No matter what.
It's not a RPG game with a ton of dialogue, i can't "play in character", it is so fucking stupid, it's fucking qte-movie-'game' where your decisions not on impact, at least i want make my best for Clem.
In the moment, I was more worried about how I might have screwed up by choosing to shoot at a man holding a hostage. And I would rather just agree with Conrad just to get him to let Gabe go and not go shooting anyone. "It's not like Clem's going to be killed by the New Frontier," I thought. "They want her back or something."