but did not check them to make sure that they didn't work.
How exactly would she check that? I mean if there was some distinction fr… moreom normal bullets then she cant have realised when she traded for them. I mean without firing every shot she couldnt check them
The thing is, I don't see a reason to call it murder like she should hang for it or something, when it's the circumstances that matter in this situation. This is the apocalypse, no one follows rules anymore. People murder each other left and right. I mean, Javier can straight up kill a guy with his hands up at the start. And there were quite a lot of people who did that as well. What kind of a hypocrites would those people be if they would sell out Clementine when they just did worse a few minutes ago? Besides, she genuinely thought the bullets wouldn't work. So it was not like she was thinking "let's play russian roulette with this guy and see if I can kill him this way." The option to tell the truth even says "It was an accident!". Like I said, it was not intentional, plus Eli was not some innocent little lamb. And even though I was disturbed at that moment, I didn't think that telling the truth would help anyone in that scenario.
I get that you were just trying to correct someone on the right term, but what does it matter if it was first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, etc.? It's not about that. She killed a guy. That's it. What matters is the circumstances of the incident and how do you think it's best to proceed in that situation.
Well no it isn't. You're thinking of first degree murder. First degree murder is the only type of murder that has to be planned out prior to… more the moment, unless it's a "heat of the passion" crime, or something like that. Second degree murder just has to be acting without regard for human life. She was acting without regard for human life.
But the thing is, Clementine knew that bullets come out when you pull the trigger. Clementine knew there were bullets in the gun. Clementine had enough experience with poorly maintained bullets and guns to know what a misfiring bullet is. Clementine had enough experience to know that just because 1 or 2 or even 3 bullets misfire, does not mean they ALL misfire. That's a ridiculous assumption she made, and is definitely second degree murder because of it.
Eli wasn't innocent entirely, but at the moment of his death, Eli was incapacitated, and not fighting back.
And yeah, those are valid reasons to pic… [view original content]
You're just assuming now. I'm basing my opinion on what we actually see happening. And like I said, you can see by the shock on her face that she didn't expect that to happen. So it was an accident in my eyes. I'm not excusing what she did, accident or not, she was reckless, but I know she didn't intend to kill him in cold blood.
You can't call it an accident when you point a loaded gun at someone and it goes off. Regardless of whether Clem thought the bullets were fa… moreulty or not, she should have known that just because a few bullets misfire doesn't mean they all will. She's been handling poorly maintained guns for YEARS. Since she was NINE. You're telling me not one gun has misfired on her?
The first time I saw Clementine shoot Eli and then asked Javier to back her up immediately afterwards, the first thing that popped in my head was "Clementine must have taken a few pages from Chloe Price's book."
You're just assuming now. I'm basing my opinion on what we actually see happening. And like I said, you can see by the shock on her face tha… moret she didn't expect that to happen. So it was an accident in my eyes. I'm not excusing what she did, accident or not, she was reckless, but I know she didn't intend to kill him in cold blood.
The first time I saw Clementine shoot Eli and then asked Javier to back her up immediately afterwards, the first thing that popped in my head was "Clementine must have taken a few pages from Chloe Price's book."
that Clementine thought that all of the bullets loaded in the handgun were faulty
Exactly. She was being reckless, but that doesn't change the fact that it was not her intention to kill him. Are you saying she wanted to straight up murder him in cold blood? Then why not pull out her shotgun and do it? She thought all of the bullets were faulty and she was using that to her advantage to intimidate Eli to fulfill their deal. By saying it wasn't an accident you're saying she intended that to happen, which is not true and I don't think you believe that either. So I'm not really sure what's your point.
Okay, we are discussing semantics now. Let's not.
I believe we can agree—at the very least—that Clementine thought that all of the bullets loaded in the handgun were faulty, but did not check them to make sure that they didn't work.
See, I also chose to tell the truth, but I didn't see the other option as "letting her get away with manslaughter". If someone else did this, I'd probably lie & cover for them, as that kill, quite clearly, was an accident. Clementine had me at gunpoint before & was going to rob me by taking my van, so since the first moment we met, I was working towards getting rid of her & figured that ditching her could turn out helpful. It barely did, for some reason I wasn't given the option to get the hell out of Prescott without her, but that's what my intention was.
Clem is a real badass bitch this season and I love her for that I never even thought I can betray her Plus, that guy, Eli or whatever, attacked her. So yes, he deserved what he got
Maybe, but she is still the most reliable person around, and has done nothing so far to make me suspicious of her, heck, she willingly showe… mored her brand to Javier, and she obviously isnt exactly thrilled to be going into A New Frontier territory, considering she takes off.
In my book she isnt suspicious yet, Clem or otherwise
No, I agree with you! With everything you said! It wasn't her intention to kill him, but she was reckless and aimed her gun at him and pulled the trigger, which is how the death occurred.
I'm saying that our diverging judgment on what the word "accident" means and and doesn't mean it appear like we disagreed. But we think equally.
that Clementine thought that all of the bullets loaded in the handgun were faulty
Exactly. She was being reckless, but that doesn't … morechange the fact that it was not her intention to kill him. Are you saying she wanted to straight up murder him in cold blood? Then why not pull out her shotgun and do it? She thought all of the bullets were faulty and she was using that to her advantage to intimidate Eli to fulfill their deal. By saying it wasn't an accident you're saying she intended that to happen, which is not true and I don't think you believe that either. So I'm not really sure what's your point.
that Clementine thought that all of the bullets loaded in the handgun were faulty
Exactly. She was being reckless, but that doesn't … morechange the fact that it was not her intention to kill him. Are you saying she wanted to straight up murder him in cold blood? Then why not pull out her shotgun and do it? She thought all of the bullets were faulty and she was using that to her advantage to intimidate Eli to fulfill their deal. By saying it wasn't an accident you're saying she intended that to happen, which is not true and I don't think you believe that either. So I'm not really sure what's your point.
We can take five seconds more and explain what we believe—which is that the killing was unintentional—instead of relying on words that are bound to lead to confusion.
Well wtf did Clementine do that's good in S3? At the start, she tried to steal from you and threaten you. Sorry but i am very suspicious of Clem this season and i think she is a spy
Personally, i see it this way:
Whatever you told them, they would most likely believe you. They had no reason not to, after all, you were… moren't the one who shot the guy, you actually did get attacked by him (and you had a proof of that on your face), they know you aren't with Clem for too long and Tripp said he was a rate-a-certified dipshit, so i doubt anyone would be willing to dig that whole situation.
On other hand, Clem will be really pissed if you tell them the truth. You're gonna piss a person off for no reason other than being rightful, justice, bla bla and so on. Not really a smart move in a zombie apocalypse. I much rather have allies rather than enemies.
Basically, lying gives you a + on Clem's side, and saying the truth doesn't give you jack shit.
Well, after she tries to steal the stuff that may well be some of the same stuff you just finished stealing from this group, she offers to take you to your family in exchange for your van because she knows where the junk yard is. Instead of leaving you stranded in the middle of the road or shooting you in the back like you could have done to the fleeing driver, then going to the junkyard and taking your van because of the whole she knows the place you're talking about and could have just gone there herself and took it.
There's also her willing to stay behind so your family can escape instead of making a run for it while they're shooting at the people sitting in the open, digging a grave for Mari instead of taking the car NF left behind. Driving Jav back to Prescott and sticking around instead of taking off in the car when Jav steps out. She'll also shoot when she finds out they plan to execute you right in front of Prescott. She's the one who tells them about Richmond having medical supplies when we find out Eleanor won't be able to save Kate, and could have just as easily taken off before getting to Richmond rather than trusting Jav with her past. Seems like she's done an awful lot more than she needed to for Javier lol
Well wtf did Clementine do that's good in S3? At the start, she tried to steal from you and threaten you. Sorry but i am very suspicious of Clem this season and i think she is a spy
On other hand, Clem will be really pissed if you tell them the truth. You're gonna piss a person off for no reason other than being rightful, justice, bla bla and so on. Not really a smart move in a zombie apocalypse. I much rather have allies rather than enemies.
Not only that, but people tend to forget that at that point Clementine was the one who was going to take Javier back to the junkyard. If Javier really cares for his family and wants to get to them as soon as possible he would cover for Clementine and get the hell out of there with her. It makes no sense to me why he would risk telling the truth and have Clementine locked up or worse when he needed her. What does anyone gain with that? Absolutely nothing. Unless you just feel like being a righteous person in the freaking apocalypse, when people are killing each other left and right, while your family is in danger. Who am I to judge, everyone's got their reasons I guess.
Personally, i see it this way:
Whatever you told them, they would most likely believe you. They had no reason not to, after all, you were… moren't the one who shot the guy, you actually did get attacked by him (and you had a proof of that on your face), they know you aren't with Clem for too long and Tripp said he was a rate-a-certified dipshit, so i doubt anyone would be willing to dig that whole situation.
On other hand, Clem will be really pissed if you tell them the truth. You're gonna piss a person off for no reason other than being rightful, justice, bla bla and so on. Not really a smart move in a zombie apocalypse. I much rather have allies rather than enemies.
Basically, lying gives you a + on Clem's side, and saying the truth doesn't give you jack shit.
Personally, i see it this way:
Whatever you told them, they would most likely believe you. They had no reason not to, after all, you were… moren't the one who shot the guy, you actually did get attacked by him (and you had a proof of that on your face), they know you aren't with Clem for too long and Tripp said he was a rate-a-certified dipshit, so i doubt anyone would be willing to dig that whole situation.
On other hand, Clem will be really pissed if you tell them the truth. You're gonna piss a person off for no reason other than being rightful, justice, bla bla and so on. Not really a smart move in a zombie apocalypse. I much rather have allies rather than enemies.
Basically, lying gives you a + on Clem's side, and saying the truth doesn't give you jack shit.
Yeah, I never disagreed that what she did was wrong. Pointing a gun at anyone, even if it's not loaded, is dangerous. But I can sort of understand why she did it considering the circumstances, even though pushing the trigger was a big risk from her part. But the fact that she didn't actually mean for that to happen (and because she was just trying to get working bullets) was a big factor on how I viewed the situation and how I dealt with it.
No, I agree with you! With everything you said! It wasn't her intention to kill him, but she was reckless and aimed her gun at him and pulle… mored the trigger, which is how the death occurred.
I'm saying that our diverging judgment on what the word "accident" means and and doesn't mean it appear like we disagreed. But we think equally.
She stopped the truck, so unintentionally saved you
She didnt take the candy bar if you asked her not to
She didnt shoot you, even if you shot that guy
She trusted you and gave you a weapon
She covered your family retreating
She dug up a grave for your niece
If you surrendered in that whole Prescott siege thing, she shot the guy that was most likely going to shoot you
She trusted you and told you she was with the New Frontier
I don't get what exactly she could possibly steal from Javier. He only had that candy bar, and batteries if you decided to save them for later. And a gun+ammo, but she didn't steal that.
She was threatening you, but keep in mind she is a kid, and you are an adult. She was simply careful and showed you who is the boss in that situation.
Well wtf did Clementine do that's good in S3? At the start, she tried to steal from you and threaten you. Sorry but i am very suspicious of Clem this season and i think she is a spy
Which to be honest is the reason why some people went with that choice. People call other people biased for going with the choices that are in favor of Clem, when they are clearly doing the opposite just because they don't like her in season 3. Meanwhile, I'm just sitting here looking at these threads and thinking, "why the hell do people care so much what others do in their games?". Be an asshole to Clementine, who cares? Jesus... I think Telltale is the one who should be worried, considering most of their "though" choices are so one sided.
How am I supposed to know everyone checks my profile.
And if people feel the need to make this same thread over and over then I'll comment my thoughts over and over.
Had it been a different character shooting a dealer in the face without confirming that all of the bullets in their gun is indeed fake, I doubt most would have let them off the hook as easily for being so reckless.
Yeah, that's pretty much how it seems to go most of the time. Could you imagine if Duck, Ben, Becca, Nick, Sarah, Jane, or Gabe had done same thing?
It's most likely to do with bias towards Clementine.
Had it been a different character shooting a dealer in the face without confirming t… morehat all of the bullets in their gun is indeed fake, I doubt most would have let them off the hook as easily for being so reckless.
Because your previous comment implied that you base most of your choices purely on the fact that you like Clementine rather than considering whether its right or wrong depending on the circumstances.
How is it biased? It's a simple opinion, I agree with her suggestions.
Staying to cover the family was the smarter thing to do to me inst… moreead of just risking anyone else getting shot. And after seeing the new frontier shoot a ten year old in the head, I agreed with her notion that they probably wouldn't bargain, so I didn't sell her out.
It's entirely subjective.
Yes but in a couple of years it will be more like 50/50 split because of replays and new players...And hey, just so you know...Kenny is still out there...crawling along looking for people to bite...his legacy ENDURES!!!
It's the apocalypse. Old rules do not apply in the new world. I would compare it to the Wild West, but even they had rules. There are no rul… morees, but the ones you create. If some people want to hold onto civilization's moral code, by all means, go for it. Good luck. Maybe you'll get far, maybe you won't. Same could be said for me, who would most likely live like Season 5 Rick. I would go after threats before they come after me & if you aren't in my "family", I won't have mercy if you cross me.
That's exactly what this guy did when he sold Clementine bad bullets, then tried to kill her & Javi. I'm supposed to show sympathy to this guy? I can't trust him now. So he has to die & I'll cover for Clem, because he deserved it.
It's a matter of me going "I know Clementine so I know she isn't a threat" that helped me easily make that decision.
Obviously knowing Clementine makes things easier.
Lemme put it this way: had it been, say, Eleanor who was part of the New Frontier, I would still shoot Conrad because I would still agree with her point of view that they wouldn't bargain but I'd still be slightly suspicious of her because I don't know her character enough yet. It being Clementine helps because I know who she is and I like who she is. I can trust her judgment because I've even been her before.
My point of view is still the same on the situations and my decisions wouldn't change, Clementine just makes it easier to make the decision in the first place.
Because your previous comment implied that you base most of your choices purely on the fact that you like Clementine rather than considering whether its right or wrong depending on the circumstances.
I thought she was right about the bullets not working. But dude man did attack Javi...that part wasn't a lie...the shooting didn't happen in retaliation for the the attack on Javi, but i didn't want the Prescott to execute Clementine for what happened. It was an accident, but the guy handled the situation poorly and wound up dead.
That sounds very crass, but every decision is a matter of life and death.
It wasn't accidental—she didn't know whether the bullets would work and she fired nonetheless. If Clementine had become surprised and instinctively pulled the trigger, then it would've been an accident.
It wasn't accidental—she didn't know whether the bullets would work and she fired nonetheless. If Clementine had become surprised and instinctively pulled the trigger, then it would've been an accident.
Had it been a different character shooting a dealer in the face without confirming that all of the bullets in their gun is indeed fake, I do… moreubt most would have let them off the hook as easily for being so reckless.
Yeah, that's pretty much how it seems to go most of the time. Could you imagine if Duck, Ben, Becca, Nick, Sarah, Jane, or Gabe had done same thing?
I think it's because I'd rather play as Clementine and I kind of felt like I want her to stay in the story and taking the other choice made me feel she would have been kept out of it or something. I've also noticed they're not going to make Clementine be a perfect angel anymore and now she starts having habits as bad as Nick.
Comments
She could've fired them in a different direction than his face.
That is how you check.
The thing is, I don't see a reason to call it murder like she should hang for it or something, when it's the circumstances that matter in this situation. This is the apocalypse, no one follows rules anymore. People murder each other left and right. I mean, Javier can straight up kill a guy with his hands up at the start. And there were quite a lot of people who did that as well. What kind of a hypocrites would those people be if they would sell out Clementine when they just did worse a few minutes ago? Besides, she genuinely thought the bullets wouldn't work. So it was not like she was thinking "let's play russian roulette with this guy and see if I can kill him this way." The option to tell the truth even says "It was an accident!". Like I said, it was not intentional, plus Eli was not some innocent little lamb. And even though I was disturbed at that moment, I didn't think that telling the truth would help anyone in that scenario.
I get that you were just trying to correct someone on the right term, but what does it matter if it was first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, etc.? It's not about that. She killed a guy. That's it. What matters is the circumstances of the incident and how do you think it's best to proceed in that situation.
You're just assuming now. I'm basing my opinion on what we actually see happening. And like I said, you can see by the shock on her face that she didn't expect that to happen. So it was an accident in my eyes. I'm not excusing what she did, accident or not, she was reckless, but I know she didn't intend to kill him in cold blood.
The first time I saw Clementine shoot Eli and then asked Javier to back her up immediately afterwards, the first thing that popped in my head was "Clementine must have taken a few pages from Chloe Price's book."
You two have different conceptions of the word "accident," and it translates to a discussion that wouldn't exist if we stopped using that word.
Thank God I'm not the only one that thought this.
Exactly. She was being reckless, but that doesn't change the fact that it was not her intention to kill him. Are you saying she wanted to straight up murder him in cold blood? Then why not pull out her shotgun and do it? She thought all of the bullets were faulty and she was using that to her advantage to intimidate Eli to fulfill their deal. By saying it wasn't an accident you're saying she intended that to happen, which is not true and I don't think you believe that either. So I'm not really sure what's your point.
Well, what other word there is to explain an incident that happens unintentionally? I can only think of accident.
See, I also chose to tell the truth, but I didn't see the other option as "letting her get away with manslaughter". If someone else did this, I'd probably lie & cover for them, as that kill, quite clearly, was an accident. Clementine had me at gunpoint before & was going to rob me by taking my van, so since the first moment we met, I was working towards getting rid of her & figured that ditching her could turn out helpful. It barely did, for some reason I wasn't given the option to get the hell out of Prescott without her, but that's what my intention was.
Clem is a real badass bitch this season and I love her for that
I never even thought I can betray her 
Plus, that guy, Eli or whatever, attacked her. So yes, he deserved what he got
That's the point man. She is trying to get you to trust her so she could then gather personal information.
No, I agree with you! With everything you said! It wasn't her intention to kill him, but she was reckless and aimed her gun at him and pulled the trigger, which is how the death occurred.
I'm saying that our diverging judgment on what the word "accident" means and and doesn't mean it appear like we disagreed. But we think equally.
Everyone knows that, we have all seen your bio
Clementine would not waste shotgun ammo, that would be fucking stupid
We can take five seconds more and explain what we believe—which is that the killing was unintentional—instead of relying on words that are bound to lead to confusion.
Well wtf did Clementine do that's good in S3? At the start, she tried to steal from you and threaten you. Sorry but i am very suspicious of Clem this season and i think she is a spy
Well, after she tries to steal the stuff that may well be some of the same stuff you just finished stealing from this group, she offers to take you to your family in exchange for your van because she knows where the junk yard is. Instead of leaving you stranded in the middle of the road or shooting you in the back like you could have done to the fleeing driver, then going to the junkyard and taking your van because of the whole she knows the place you're talking about and could have just gone there herself and took it.
There's also her willing to stay behind so your family can escape instead of making a run for it while they're shooting at the people sitting in the open, digging a grave for Mari instead of taking the car NF left behind. Driving Jav back to Prescott and sticking around instead of taking off in the car when Jav steps out. She'll also shoot when she finds out they plan to execute you right in front of Prescott. She's the one who tells them about Richmond having medical supplies when we find out Eleanor won't be able to save Kate, and could have just as easily taken off before getting to Richmond rather than trusting Jav with her past. Seems like she's done an awful lot more than she needed to for Javier lol
Not only that, but people tend to forget that at that point Clementine was the one who was going to take Javier back to the junkyard. If Javier really cares for his family and wants to get to them as soon as possible he would cover for Clementine and get the hell out of there with her. It makes no sense to me why he would risk telling the truth and have Clementine locked up or worse when he needed her. What does anyone gain with that? Absolutely nothing. Unless you just feel like being a righteous person in the freaking apocalypse, when people are killing each other left and right, while your family is in danger. Who am I to judge, everyone's got their reasons I guess.
I would call honesty, but I did actually end up being locked!
And testing the bullets with Eli's face wasn't?
Okay, everyone gets that I'm not stupid or something, right?
After all, I did COVERED FOR Clem! I did what 95% people would do!
I'm just saying that I didn't want to do this! In the 1st place! :=(
But there's nothing to worry about okay, it's not that big! And I don't see it big (or at least I don't think it's big)
Yeah, I never disagreed that what she did was wrong. Pointing a gun at anyone, even if it's not loaded, is dangerous. But I can sort of understand why she did it considering the circumstances, even though pushing the trigger was a big risk from her part. But the fact that she didn't actually mean for that to happen (and because she was just trying to get working bullets) was a big factor on how I viewed the situation and how I dealt with it.
I don't get what exactly she could possibly steal from Javier. He only had that candy bar, and batteries if you decided to save them for later. And a gun+ammo, but she didn't steal that.
She was threatening you, but keep in mind she is a kid, and you are an adult. She was simply careful and showed you who is the boss in that situation.
How am I supposed to know everyone checks my profile.
And if people feel the need to make this same thread over and over then I'll comment my thoughts over and over.
Which to be honest is the reason why some people went with that choice. People call other people biased for going with the choices that are in favor of Clem, when they are clearly doing the opposite just because they don't like her in season 3. Meanwhile, I'm just sitting here looking at these threads and thinking, "why the hell do people care so much what others do in their games?". Be an asshole to Clementine, who cares? Jesus... I think Telltale is the one who should be worried, considering most of their "though" choices are so one sided.
Still Clem wouldn't waste precious shotgun ammo that could be used to mow down a horde. That is plain common sense
Because we do
Yeah, that's pretty much how it seems to go most of the time. Could you imagine if Duck, Ben, Becca, Nick, Sarah, Jane, or Gabe had done same thing?
Because your previous comment implied that you base most of your choices purely on the fact that you like Clementine rather than considering whether its right or wrong depending on the circumstances.
That's assuming he can move, anyway.
I told the truth and said it was an accident.
Just because it's Clementine, who seemed completely out of character mind you, dosen't mean I should lie for her.
So he has to die, huh? I guess the Hank HIll method is a lost art or something.
Eli was a worthless P.O.S who probably got people killed because he fucked them over. Good riddance
Obviously knowing Clementine makes things easier.
Lemme put it this way: had it been, say, Eleanor who was part of the New Frontier, I would still shoot Conrad because I would still agree with her point of view that they wouldn't bargain but I'd still be slightly suspicious of her because I don't know her character enough yet. It being Clementine helps because I know who she is and I like who she is. I can trust her judgment because I've even been her before.
My point of view is still the same on the situations and my decisions wouldn't change, Clementine just makes it easier to make the decision in the first place.
I thought she was right about the bullets not working. But dude man did attack Javi...that part wasn't a lie...the shooting didn't happen in retaliation for the the attack on Javi, but i didn't want the Prescott to execute Clementine for what happened. It was an accident, but the guy handled the situation poorly and wound up dead.
That sounds very crass, but every decision is a matter of life and death.
Isn't that basically what happened, though?
I was going to bring up Gabe, but then I assumed that most of us could be quick to catch on that Javier wouldn't be as willing to sell out his nephew.
True, but knowing how some people operate, there's bound to be some stragglers.
Considering that some are struggling to be all that invested in the relationships between Javier and his family, you do have a point.
I think it's because I'd rather play as Clementine and I kind of felt like I want her to stay in the story and taking the other choice made me feel she would have been kept out of it or something. I've also noticed they're not going to make Clementine be a perfect angel anymore and now she starts having habits as bad as Nick.