2012 Telltale Games vs Now. My real thoughts about ANF
This is my first ever post here and I've been following all the drama on Twitter and here, so i decided to join the discussion.
To begin with,** i want to clarify that i don't hate Telltale**, they gave me the best series and game i have ever experienced in my entire life and i really thank them for that, but NOW they got some serious problems they need to deal with.
Lets first go back to 2012, when Telltale Games released TWD Season 1, back when they weren't too famous.
They released Ep1 and it was really awesome, and then they released the second and the third and all the way untill the Season final, Episode 5.
The game surprised us all, story was phenomenal, Fantastic characters, and we all got attached to Lee and Clem too fast, and finally that ending. at took the "Game of The Year" award and it absolutely deserved it.
And then they released Season 2, now i know some people may prefer Season 1 but that's ok, in my opinion it was almost as good as Season 1.
This time we are now Clem, Clem was so depressed after What happened to Lee and if u look closely she barely smiles in this entire Season, Mellisa (Clem's voice actor) really NAILED it that season!
And then there was Kenny who in
my opinion he is one of the important things that made Season 2 successful.
Different endings of Season 2 was good and all the fight between team Kenny vs team Jane can give u a good impression about how this Season was actually good and not that bad and it was successful.
After Season 2 Telltale started making a lot of games other then TWD, like The Wolf Among Us (which in my opinion i think it's good) and Minecraft and Batman and GOT and several other games i think, this time i started to feel like they were giving less attention to the game that gave them their name, to be honest i didn't care too much to all of these games and what i really was waiting for is just Season 3 of TWD.
Suddenly in E3, they officialy announced it, oh God i was so surprised and happy, but i got UPSET when they changed the name and made it feel like its a different game.
And then Telltale came out and said that's it's ok for new players to start from this season, this time i knew they are messing things up and they are just trying to appeal new players and make more money, how could anyone understand a (series) if he didn't follow it from the beginning? therefore i realised that they will change the story and not make it so much related to the previous Seasons (unlike Season 2 wich was so much related to Season 1).
And my thoughts were correct, they changed to a new protagonist (Javi) and they made the favorite character of all time Clem as a second or support protagonist. AND ALL OF THIS WAS JUST TO ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS and make them feel like they don't have to play the previous Seasons.
BUT BACK AT THE DAY, the Developers said that both of them will be playable (and they didn't lie but they kinda tricked the fans cuz we play Clem a couple minutes in the entire episode and it was only flashbacks).
The Season starts, episodes were short and rushed compared too S1&2 episodes, fans not comfortable and feel odd for not being Clem, but Telltale didn't care they just want to attract new players to the series, IF TELLTALE WANT NEW PLAYERS TO THE SERIES WELL I GOTTA SAY THEY DID IT WRONG
And we all saw how Kenny the beloved and bad ass character died, he even died without a gun to protect himself, Telltale if u really want to kill Kenny, at least give the man a Well-written death like Lee, not a freaking car accident. (if you know the tv show just imagine Daryl is thrown from a car windshield and say he can't feel his body and that's it he is dead, sounds ridiculous right? this is exactly the same thing)
Even Mellisa expressed her uncomfort about all of this. Clementine is the CORE of this series and i think both of Clem and her voice actor deserves better than this.
I think they could've done a lot more better, as a fan i want my best game to be the best and still the best game, it hurts me when things like this happen, that's all.
And it's not over they just released two episodes and they still can fix all of this in the future.
I don't mind waiting for episode 3 if they are gonna make it long and better and give more importance to Clem in the story instead of just pushing her to the back lines.
I'd rather wait then getting a short and rushed episode early.
Comments
The E3 reveal is a far cry from what we actually got in terms of characters, they essentially announced it was a soft reboot around the VGAs. Disappointing, but I'd like to think there's enough time before the next episodes are released to hear some of the criticism, and maybe have less than 8 different writers creating a 60 minute episode like they did with episode 2. Welcome to the forums. Be prepared for a few posters to whine about you being the vocal minority, etc. But otherwise, here's hoping TT opens themselves up to some feedback for the next 3 episodes.
yeah i think there is still time to relieve the damage they have done and make the game better, it's not over yet.
i'm just trying to be optimistic here.
TT has crapped the bed so far with Season 3. Season 2 felt like filler, it didn't have the arch that Season 1 had. Season 2 felt like episodes in a show, with different main characters nearly each episode apart from Clem. And Season 3 feels so disconnected from WD's reality, with main characters that act like people who just escaped their first zombie attack, not people who have survived for years. It sort of feels like TT is making WD a collection of short stories whereas the other TT games have solid plot threads that are traceable through all the episodes. Hopefully, TT can reorient and do that in the rest of the episodes. Or folks can stop hoping for S1 quality and just accept the short stories for what they are... time killers with predictable deaths.
The only real problems this game faces are...
1. Short flashbacks
2. Less down time w/ branching dialogue
3. Short episodes
Fix this and you fix the season practically.
Also, I'm going to go on a limb and say that the episodes weren't originally meant to be split. 2 HRs 15 MIN is a lot for one episode, but it could have been doable. However, I'm going to believe they had a reason for this. A lot of people are saying that Telltale is gettin lazy and ruining this game, while we don't exactly know for sure.
The characters are likable, Javier is a good main protaganist, and Clementine has a huge role is story. Clementine has more charactization in this season than she did in the entire Season 2. I didn't mind playing as Clementine in Season 2, but somethings always felt a little off to me. I like being a fatherly figure again a lot more now, and in a way, we probably shouldn't have played as Clementine in Season 2 if it wasn't part of their plan to begin Javier.
Some will agree, some won't. There are many haters of this season, there are many supporters. Get used to it.
As an example, not going to get into this. Obama was not well received on one side, while praised on the other. While Trump is not well received on the other side, while praised on another side.
Think of it as Season 2 and Season 3.
As far as Season 3, the only gripe I really have are the flashback deaths and the episode length which I doubt will be a problem when Episode 3 comes out.
They could fix season 3 by making Clementine the primary protagonist, :^).
I doubt they will make that change haha.
If they were going to make Clementine the playable character, than it would of had to been the first episode, now that people are getting more invested with Javier, quite a lot of fans may be disappointed to see it flip halfway through the season.
However, I would like to see 20-30 Minute flashbacks, along side a 75-90 Minute present day story. It would certainly make the play time from 1 HR 5 MIN to 1 HR 35 MIN +.
Overall I do like Clementine how she is right now, I really like her character, more so then Season 2, as a whole now.
Yeah I know they won't make as they based it all on Javier, but I'm sure most people wouldn't mind the change much, especially if they actually give Clem fair screen time other than 5 minutes per episode.
I mean she has quite a lot of screen time for a "supporting" character, she is basically like her Season 1 role and the Kenny role of Season 2, she's a very important character that shows up everywhere and anywhere we go.
I do believe that Telltale has learned from this, and they will add length to these flashbacks and episodes in general, also create a tight bond between Javier and Clementine.
I mean hey, Telltale made us all cry in Season 1, and many cry according to your choices in Season 2, I have high hopes something similar will happen this season.... As long as it's not Clem's death...
I meant screen time as in actually playing her, honestly, I'd rather just have a continuation of Clem's story, not Javier's family as I've reiterated many times in other threads, I simply can't put myself in Javier's shoes and don't care about his family; many people feel this way too sadly.
Many don't as well. I don't put myself in his shoes either actually, and Clementine is my favorite character in probably all of gaming. I can admit, I was sad that we couldn't play as Clenentins... much... but you gotta look at your alternatives...
Have Clementine as a supporting character that is very important to the plot similar to Season 1.
OR
Have no Season 3, and Clemetine's story ends at 11.
I was very upset by Kenny's death, but sometimes you got to get over it and move on, you may not like the continuation as much as the older ones, but I love learning more and more of Clementine, and also seeing her grow from a little daughter of mine to a badass yet very pretty older version of her.
Also, I don't know why, but Clementine's Season 2 model lacked the cuteness she had when she was younger for me, I mean I think she's so much prettier and more adorable now in Season 3 than Season 2, but I'd like to believe that was just because of the older graphics.
Personally, I love both seasons 1 and 2 a lot, but season 1 had better character development definitely. Season 1 was about Lee redeeming himself from the murder; showing he has a good side to him as a motif occurs throughout the story, started handcuffed next to a dead officer, shotgun shells, etc, ended hand cuffed with a dead officer nearby, Clem even finds some shotgun shells at the end scene credits seen to complete this, but most importantly of all, it was about teaching Clementine how to survive in this dreadful world of horrors and challenges, Clem was smart so she learned things quick while being that cute girl we all know. Season 2 Clem learns her strengths and weaknesses (killing walkers, suturing her arm, etc), developing a big sense of survival while still everyone around her dies for her or gets killed. Quite sad, but season 3 could've been a great continuation of Clem's story, people are more angered because they throw Javier and his family in which we don't even feel nearly invested at all in, therefore not making decisions in their favor, etc. I disagree that people would be necessarily disappointed playing Clem again, I particularly loved playing Clem in season 2 as you're not as strong as adults, it's much more pressuring especially for a character you have a deep sentiment with; Javier just baseball swings them with Q & E and it's not even a big threat it feels. Clem still has trouble with walkers, but not nearly as much anymore, she's also just a character which I'd like to devote my time playing to as I feel much more inclined in her story.
TL;DR I want to play Clem over Javier/his family, and seasons 1 & 2 were Clem based season 3 isn't.
I fear Clem's death.
Because nearly no player would cry for the other characters.
Javi's group is by far the worst set of shmucks we were given to play YET.
I completely agree Spodes, well said.
and yeah I said it before in other threads and I'll say it again, i enjoyed season 2 as much as I enjoyed season 1, in my opinion it was so good playing as Clem.
And yeah It's all Clem based from the first place, it was all revolving about her from the first place (taking care of her -teaching her how to survive - teaching her how to use a gun - how she deals with this world etc...) just like you said.
Telltale made this character that everybody loved, but this season they decided to ruin what they built by starting new story as a main focus and bringing this family's story that i don't care about, i just don't know why they did it.
If it was for the sake of newcomers, well i don't think there is a lot of new players here, and they should have done what we wanted from the first place, a continuation of Clem's story, and Clem as a protagonist.
It really sucks : (
I know people already talked about all of this before, including me.
and i just hope Telltale see how much people are agreeing on the same points and decide to listen to us.
Funny fact:
Source:
Telltale FAQ
https://telltale.com/community/discussion/94732/what-telltale-s-working-on-unofficial-faqs-about-upcoming-projects-last-updated-mar-29-2016/
They're not the sharpest bulbs in the crayon box, but nothing is gonna beat the cabin group in terms of lack of common sense in my opinion.
No its not, go see the first season episodes length, all episodes are 2 hours (except the last episode i think)
Same with season 2 (maybe not all of them are 2 hours but they are still long compared to this season)
He is a good character, but i don't want him as main character, he is a good character but not on the count of taking the spotlights from Clem, they could've just make him the support character instead of Clem at least, i mean imagine if we were Clem and we ran into Javi and then the story starts, i think that would be better.
or just make his entire story in an another game like Michone's one.
actually she was still cute idk why u didn't felt that but ok.
but u gotta know she was heartbroken, and sad back at the day, i mean imagine a 8-9 years old little girl in such a world was too optimistic and excited about finding her parents in Savanna, ended up finding them dead and seeing her mom as a walker, And right after it she had to shoot or leave the man who took care of her all of this time, and after the time skip some mugger killed Omid, and after a long while she got separated from Christa, so you have to expect a change in her personality of course.
Overall everyone has his opinion, but i think most of us agree on the same opinion, that this story should be Clem's story, and she is the one who supposed to be the main protagonist not javi.
"lacked the cuteness"
Bruh
...
Okay.... She was pretty damn adorable!
Season 1: Adorable
Season 2: Adorable
Season 3: Pretty/Adorable (when smiling)
I changed my mind, she was pretty damn adorable. Maybe it was the lack of her changing face expressions or her angry face that through my off.
That's so cute.
Kate isn't the brightest, but the Cabin group were dumber than nails.
I'm sure everyone sighed when Nick shot Matthew on that bridge, and when Carlos thought the dog bite was a walker bite.
To be honest, when I first found out we weren't playing as Clementine, I was quite devastated...
Clementine is one of my most favorite characters in gaming primarily because of how much we see her grow up over the 4-5 years we've played with her. As everyone else, she's like their virtual daughter.
Season 3, I was upset at first... but I sighed of relief when I saw her becoming a major character in the story again.
Think about Season 2... many of us practically left our Cabin Group from Season 2 when we met up with Kenny, and that was joy we couldn't express in words. Clementine is the same way this season.
People will most likely not choose Clementine over the family, but I don't think anyone wanted to side against Kenny, and many pulled that trigger at the end because they thought that Jane did nothing wrong and Kenny was going to kill her over nothing (Then you find the baby and leave Jane's stupid ass on the road for not saying "Stop, the baby is alive!").
Overall, I actually like the story throughout this season, I like the massive role Clementine plays in the story as well. Tripp, Jesus, and Javier are all better than practically everyone from the Cabin Group... Would I have been happier with the game if Clementine was the main, MAIN protagonist?
Hell yeah.
But she's not, so I try to stay positive and wait to see how her role ends up being and how good this Season becomes.
I will give this season crap ONLY after it's completely over, because I can't form a solid opinion until I know exactly the place Clementine is at and how the story unfolds.
(Also, I'm sure if Negan shows up, everyone will begin loving this season, as long as Clementine is in every single frame
)
That's hardly fact. Of course they're going to tell the media that. They're not going to say "we're drowning in project and it's resulting in low quality but we're going to keep doing this anyways." When you see the comments from staff, people who actually make the game, they will tell you how it really is. Constantly thrown from project to project, and then some. I trust what they have to say over what the company wants us to think.