Clementine leads A New Frontier?
I recently read some article about Clem in Season 3 being from A New Frontier. I decided to check some stuff out and elaborate a bit, see if I can find anything.
So lets go.
When we first meet Clem she knocks down a tree to stop the truck. However why wouldnt she have done it sooner instead of just completely ruining the vehicle. If she was so keen on getting it, wouldnt she just drop the tree a bit sooner, causing the driver to slow down and get out?
Secondly, Clem kills Eli in Prescott. Eli was the gun and ammunition dealer. If she was smart, she wouldnt kill him. Did she do it on purpose so that Prescott would have a harder time defending themselves?
Thirdly, Clementine doesnt want to go with Ealanor. Perhaps she genuinely doesnt trust her, or maybe she trying to make time for A New Frontier to clear the junkyard?
Then A New Frontier lets Clem and Javi get to the junkyard. Maybe its because Clem is there. (Could just be TellTale tried adding conflixt)
If you choose to stay with Clem you get knocked out and wake up. Javi wasnt shot, and I dont think anyone sneaked up on him from the bandits. If the flashbang did it how come Clem was still up, as she was clearly looking at it. They wouldve been killed by the people in the trees. Could it be Clem knocked him out?
Clementine suggests going to Richmond even though the New Frontier has it. Maybe she doesnt know. However, when Jesus mentions it, she is not shocked, but angry that her plan was ruined.
Clementine uses Javier by making him trust her by revealing herself to have been (and possibly still be) part of a New Frontier. If you choose to kill Conrad, she runs away, since she cant just stroll up and make the group not trust her anymore.
Last of all, in Season 2 Episode 3 Carver has a talk with Clem in his office. He sees that both he and Clem are very alike. Both smart and both good at making decisions. He says that she will be just like him.
So what do you guys think? Am I just looking into it too much, or is Clem really still in ANF. Did Telltale do these things on purpose, or just for the sake of the plot. Maybe shes not the leader but a high enough role in it?
How else would they kill off their most loved character? By making her a villain...
Comments
Heres a link to the article.
http://www.theworkprint.com/walking-dead-season-three-new-frontier-clementine-villain/123
No.
I don't even know what I just read. But no, I'm pretty sure a 13 year old is not secretly leading or a high ranking member of a bunch of militants.
She's killed multiple members of TNF and one of them was to save your life. I don't think there's much chance of her still being with them.
I don't think so.
Did Javi give you some of his weed ?
That New Frontier Kush must be some pretty dank shit if it convinces one that Clementine is the leader
Yes
Well, considering Carver offered Clem a high ranking position within the first day of her arrival to his internment death camp at a considerably young age for such a responsibility, and considering this season has made a habit of jumping the shark, I wouldn't be surprised if she was second-in-command or some bullshit.
Yeah I only thought it could be a possibility because of the Carver scene.
Clem be like:
"Listen up you incompetent adults!"
I'm looking at YOU, Season 2.
I actually really like this idea. After my first play through of season 3 I wrote a post concerning Clementine as a villain. Although it didn't format correctly, I couldn't edit it and was too long. My personal gripe though with Clementine is that she seems to lead the new frontier to the base if you decide to go with your family at the end of episode 1. Also the game specifically tailors Clementine to be a bias towards dishonest choices which most people seem to pick.
What weed did you smoke when you wrote this?
And no i don't think Clem is the leader (or with) The New Frontier!
You have good arguments. Really.
It's a interesting possibility.
"The devil appears in the form of an angel."
The second you start believing in these theories, the world goes dark.
I don't think this theory is as far fetched as other people say it is. She doesn't have to be "the leader." She could probably be "the shadow leader." In other words she might be pulling the strings from behind the scenes. Manipulating events such as taking down the tree, shooting Eli, drawing the New Frontier towards Prescott.
and getting boners
I hope we can remove her brand, I don't want that to be apart of the list of her symbols :^(.
Yeah. Clem seems kind of fishy this season. At least to me.
Yes
Was this supposed to be a Clementine quote reference?
I was looking for this photo, saw it a while back but didn't save it.
and that
Yeah, had the same feeling while playing. This might just be game design, but there are too many decisions that build trust out of Clementine in the expense of others; Take Eli and Conrad's situation for example.
I thought it went without saying that it would be practically and theoretically impossible for Clementine to be the leader of TNF. But I guess I'll go through these points one by one.
She says herself that the tree fell slower than she thought it would. And in all fairness, I think the driver had ample time to apply the breaks even with the time given. He was just kind of an idiot.
Yeah, he was the gun and ammunition dealer. But that doesn't mean that, if killed, Prescott lost all of their weapons. It just meant that the guy who distributed them needed to be replaced. Furthermore, Clementine uses bullets that were faulty - she even uses these in battle outside of Prescott. If she knew these were fake bullets, why? To make it seem like she was justified to Javi? In which case, she not only calculated this on the spot outside of Prescott and put herself at the mercy of a walker, but mentally kept note of the bullets in the magazine so that she knew which were fake and which were real so she knew which bullet in the gun could kill Eli?
This also assumes that, if she did this with the aim of disarming Prescott, she knew that TNF would come knocking on the doors of Prescott eventually. Despite the fact that it seems that Clementine has been on her own for a while and would have no way of knowing this.
Can't really disprove this with anything other than it seems Clementine doesn't really trust Eleanor. But to be honest, if you're going to trust your life with someone in a firefight you're likely going to choose Tripp over Eleanor, right? We see it at the junkyard - when you see the walkers surrounding the truck that Kate and Gabe occupy, Tripp gets ready for melee, whereas Eleanor readies the rifle for firing, not taking into the noise into account. I think Clementine just knew Tripp was more right for the task, but there's nothing to disprove this.
Don't really have a response to this other than yeah, they probably should have opened fire when they were standing around Mariana's tape player like idiots. I dunno. Maybe there was a sentry at that point and they ran off to fetch the leader, Badger? There's a bunch of possibilities that can't be 100% proven.
We can only assume that Clementine did the actual common sense thing and, unlike Javi, not directly look in the direction of the flashbang. If you choose to throw the flashbang, he's still looking in the direction in which he threw it. If you choose to cover Clementine, her view was most likely blocked by Javi's body. But how do you explain that Clementine knocked him out? If this is the case, then we didn't see it on camera. But even if we did see it on camera, why would Javi then pretend that absolutely nothing happened afterwards? And moreover, why would Clementine knock him out? To mess with him? There isn't much reason for it.
I think this was definitely shock judging from the breathing and her timely flashback as a response to the news, but regardless... What plan would this be? To take this unwitting group to her base for... What, exactly?
Practically speaking, this is a really high-risk low-reward thing to do. Clementine has nothing to gain by revealing herself as part of TNF to anyone at this point other than friendship points with Javi, which is really subjective to how you played as Javi as you can be really judgemental to the fact that Clementine hid this from you. She could just insist to Javier that she can't let TNF see her without showing him the brand and say that she's not going to Richmond as a result. She doesn't need Javier's trust to separate herself from the group. Yeah, she might look like an asshole for abandoning Kate and Eleanor, but why would she care? She showed Javi the brand because she wanted to clear her conscience and come clean about the fact that she was with TNF before leaving.
There's a bunch of other things to point out as well. Like the fact that she opened fire on her own men at the junkyard and Prescott, with them returning fire to their supposed leader in return. Like the fact that if you sell out Clementine to TNF, she responds to her sentry with a middle finger and they seem to show a mutual lack of respect back. There's also the fact that to go through all of this she would have to have genius/psychopathic levels of foresight and intelligence to do all of this - something which you don't really expect from a 13/14 year old. Especially when said teenager may not have even killed anyone until she joined TNF - but I hope you get the picture.
And while I do agree that trusting Clementine is really really sketchy, while I do think she's up to something in which trusting her will almost certainly have consequences in the later half of the season, I don't think she's explicitly the leader of TNF. There are so many hoops that need to be jumped through.
So unless TNF is secretly a cult that prophesised the coming of the messiah through the form of a little girl with a purple-d ball cap, I don't think there's much chance this is true.
Here's some motivation that I have for this theory.
It comes from taking an 'anti-Clem' route . Now I don't really mean it as specifically being antagonistic to Clementine, but instead not following her orders all the time.
On my first, and technically only play through, I was excited that Clementine was back but then she shot Eli. This changed the way I approached the game completely. Something wasn't right about the way Clementine Blamed Javier and then her distrust for Eleanor. And the things escalated from here as the conflict with New Frontier seemed to be caused by Clementine rather than Javier. In episode 2 I am on board with Conrad's plan as my trust on Clementine has faded.
The only way I feel this route will have a consistent, satisfying arc is if Clementine, all long, has had the intent to betray the group.
i think you're on to something
Yeah, I don't think that Clementine is the leader of the New Frontier either. I'm of the opinion that she is manipulating some things in the background and is building an artificial relationship with Javier for Ulterior motives. The main thing I am opposed to is the blind trust most players have put in Clementine. When actively picking the more honest choices the game rewards in turn.
Yeah sure why not.
And then it's revealed that New Frontier under Clem is allied with the Saviors and Negan makes an appearance
It's far more interesting than the current episodes
I'm sure I've got better stuff than Kate, and reading that made me go, did you even play it?
I don't know if it's drugs he's taking or drugs he needs to be taking but do something.
Telltale will remember that
Fair enough.
Another theory I have is Clem is manipulating you to get what she wants. Possibly destroy ANF.
In season 2 Carver mentions that Clem is a shepherd, and all the rest are sheep.
And before you say a 14 year old cant manipilate people, look at the amount of players that took blame and killed Conrad.
I don't think you could remove it without cutting that bit of skin off and that would not be pleasant.
She's 13
Even without knowing Clementine I thought this was a moral choice in Clem's side and the most logical, let me explain:
Taking the blame:
So you meet this young girl that you specifically ask for help for, you want to find your family so you make a deal to give her your van in trade for assistance getting to the junkyard. It's dangerous to go into the herd so you stop by Prescott and before that, she trust you enough to untie you and give you your pistol back. While trying to get to Prescott you can't get in as there's some walkers approaching so you fend them off, while trying to shoot Clementine's bullets misfire nearly getting her killed and you have to save her. Eventually you get the bar and she's talking to the town's shady merchant "Eli" and he refuses to give Clementine bullets that function well, he doesn't even own up to the trade instead he escalates it furthermore by provoking her into "proving" he traded her those, so Clementine pulls the trigger, this is the second misfire in a row which could've screwed her over in a different scenario once again, Eli pulls a knife on her trying to stab her and probably kill her honestly. So of course after this well-know piece of shit gets shot from his own bullets, almost no one actually cares that he died, in facts he's known to be an asshole and it seemed as if it was just a waiting game for Eli to get what was coming for him. I had no reason to throw Clementine under the bus after observing Eli's character and actions, you'd want her to still help you get to your family also, you wouldn't want to be on Clem's bad side already.
Killing Conrad:
So we have Conrad which no matter what, will blame you for Francine's death, then be rather silent about it after a few sentences. He's a broken and unstable man after losing his kid, wife, and recent girlfriend. Fast forward, you're all trying to make it to the top after locking the train shut but Conrad prolongs this, instead of talking about it with the entire group, he pulls a gun on a 13 year old girl rambling about how she's New Frontier when clearly Clem shot and killed multiple New Frontier men and has been actively working against them at this point in time. Conrad then suggest using Clementine as a hostage point for Kate even though you get in perfectly fine without Clem's presence, but moving on, if you want to see this in Javier's point of view, you see New Frontier as a very dangerous group and the fact that you would consider trading in a 13 year old girl as a hostage knowing that they may torture her and give severe punishment just screams that you lack any moral and empathy for a human being. If you want to add onto this even furthermore of Conrad behaving badly, he pulls a gun directly to your nephew's head, if this doesn't give you enough incentive to end Conrad then I don't know what will.
Clem's gone through worse, but I doubt they'll actually give us an option to remove the brand anyways. It may end up as a cool mark though if they make New Frontier crumble, it would remind of us of them rising against them, who knows.
Reluctantly, I agree.
One of the things that the game is trying to make a point of is the players stance towards Clementine, both through choices and relationships. Many of the choices single this out.
But one thing that worries me more than the choices we've been given in relation to Clementine is the worlds attitude to her. Literally every character in the game has went out of their way either to state their dislike or their apathy towards Clementine, all save Gabe and determinately Javier. Oh and Kate, but that's not really strong considering she says all of like seven words to Clem. And Ava, but I'd hold out on calling any friendship there.
Tripp seems to regard her as a pain. Conrad just seems to outright hate her. Eleanor regards her as 'cold' and a 'scared kid.' All of The New Frontier probably hate her also.
And considering Gabe can be one of the only people to stand up for Clementine multiple times across the second episode, I don't think Clementine shares that respect in return. Look at the Conrad choice. If she really cared about the safety of Gabe, why didn't she give herself up? Assuming her friendship with Javier and Gabe is genuine, she either doesn't care or is confused in how to act towards them.
If AJ was used as leverage against Clementine, do you think she wouldn't betray Javier to get him back? Do you think she wouldn't hold Gabe hostage if asked? Can you guarantee that she'd show the same respect and regard for them as they did her? I really, really don't think so - and I'm expecting one of two things:
Can't agree more.
Leaked footage of OP when he was writing this thread.
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